Sep
29

Debating the postseason roster

By

Claim: Edwar Ramirez just finished pitching himself off the playoff roster tonight. Discuss.

Categories : Asides
  • George

    Its unfortunate, but it seems that way

  • Gustavo

    Hopefully Ohlie replaces him.

  • http://www.pinstripealley.com John

    Still up in the air. Torre likes the _idea_ of the changeup too much. If Edwar can show good control in his final outing he could sit in the pen in the first round.

    Especially if the Yankees decide to go with a three man rotation in the first round and can leave one of Clemens/Hughes/Moose off the roster.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      You bring up another point we’ll have to address: Moose. That outing tonight was a return to his August form. Considering how well Hughes pitched yesterday, what do you do there?

      • http://www.pinstripealley.com John

        Well, it depends on whether the Indians get the best record (they are tied with the Sox and Boston holds the tie breaker). If we can swing the three man rotation I think we should. Wang-Pettitte-Hughes-Wang-Pettitte is my best case scenario.

        If we wind up in the shorter series I think I’d want Wang-Pettitte-Hughes-Clemens.

        I know it’s impossible, but if I could see Clemens throw even 30 pitches on Sunday I’d be a lot more comfortable counting on him. But he likes this cowboy shit- riding in at the last second. I just hope he knows better than to pull a Brown or a Boomer and take the mound when he’s not prepared to.

        • http://SportingGurus.com Adam

          I’m thinking that the more rest Clemens receives, the better. But your right, he does love the spotlight and the attention.

          Always has, always will.

      • The Scout

        Torre will start Mussina over Hughes, period. Torre has long favored veterans and their experience; he will not want to throw a rookie into a pivotal game in a short series. I would prefer otherwise — I cannot think of anything more helpful to Hughes’s development at this point than the pressure experience of pitching in a post-season game. But during the post-season managers think about this year, not the future.

        • http://www.pinstripealley.com Ed

          Andy Pettite started some pretty important games over the years… I know it seems like it sometimes but he hasn’t always been a veteran

  • steve

    i’m worried about clemens and moose … i hope hughes gets a start ….

    as for edwar, i say yes he pitched his way off the roster … but not for next year … he definitely deserves an invitation back to the team

  • E-ROC

    Ramirez is done. He looks tired and his control is becoming more of an issue. I think Ohlendorf will take his spot as he should. I hope Villone has his crap together for the playoffs since Torre wants a lefty specialist. Torre should just go with the best pitchers available. Ohlendorf and some-body.

    Moose didn’t get his calls tonight, so he says when he left the field. I’m not sold on him. The lineups will be better in the playoffs and I don’t think he can nibble his way through 5 innings. At least I know Clemens will do everything he can to be ready for his start. That much I do know.

    Who’s going to be on the bench? Sardinha or Gonzalez? Or neither?

  • Bart

    Yankee fans have to get over the Edwar story — it is over — maybe he can be traded for something — major league hitters wil adjust – the book is out have adjusted – and with a runner or two on base he is an Earl Weaver dream — the 3 Run homer. Can he spend a year in the minors truly refining location and developing another pitch — possibly, yes. Should the Yankees try – sure. Should he appear in the Postseason — maybe a a spot reliver against a player known to be an overswinging, pull happy hacker — a one out guy when the other choice Farnsworthless

    My fear is that the Yankees will win games with big scores and lose games with tight scores — Torre is at his weakest tactically in a tight game.

    The way the starting pitcing has been going the Yankees wil need an average of 5 runs on offense and 6+ innings from the starters. And then only one out of three games might be penciled as a sure win
    – since Mo is now more hittable by good lineups that will go the other way — even High School kids who swing late at above average gas get oppo hits
    – Mo has lost movement on the cutter and maple bats have helped get the flare hit
    - He can’t command a srikeout when needed and has been outpitched by Joba and now Olendorf against the same lineups – his pride, nerve, and professional compeeetitvenes can’t make up for non movement — he has aways needed another picth and failed to develop it — now it is critcaland he doen’t have it (unless he has been secrely saving it)

    Wang is too hittable — and has been poor from the stretch, need to expect he gives up 4 runs in 6 plus innings and needs run support to win – that could be a luck of the draw pitching matchup where we lose 5-3, instead of winning 5-4

    Andy can be sharp Andy — or 3 run inning Andy – which might be too much —
    we lose 7 -2 or win 5-3. Relief has to be strong for both Wang and Andy –

    TACTICS — IF I can have strong JOBA and Mo on Day 1 and 3
    but have to push them on Day 1 and 2 — why not split Wang and Pettit – games 1 and 3 — play the odds for solid starts and strong relief to give the best chance at 2 wins — if we get luck in game 2 maybe sweep — if not game 4 with rest or game five is postioned-

    Roger is done – he gave his last in Toronto — we need to thank him for that but he is as limited as the Big Uselesss now — easily can go from a solid inning to an it all gets away inning

    Huges is a wild card — the teams don’t know him well yet and the question is has he steadily improved from since the hammy and ankle – he should start ahead of Moose or Roger but Torre is anidiaot when i comes to these things — or simply Risk Averse – who can blame him for the VETERAN over the Rookie (see Angels vs Yankess a few years ago for the better way) Slot him in Game 2 — see above -

    Moose is the bigger problem — the pitching needs to be better than the hitting — since 2001 in the post season that has not been the case — 3 of the problems –at different times — have been Pettit Moose and Celmens. As good as they are – if they are off a little, the Yankees need a lot of runs to survive

    Two gapping holes in the lineup — not agood time to have any with spotting strating and not enough relief

    Giambi is a disaster — he is not going to recover in a short series

    – Matsui is a disaster — if he has always flown open this badly (on outside picthes yet) he must be a stupendous freak of an athlete to have hit the way he has – can’t corrct this is a short series — pressure exacerbates it

    – Melky looks like he has hit a wall – can he have productive at bats – likely a third hole in the line up — he will be impotant on defense and maybe Damon in left as well if there are going to be lots of balls in olay (there will be and any one might be critical (Bubba Crosby Gary Sheffield) —

    Mankievich and Damon may be wild cards — if the can stay hot and provide good at bats

    I love ARod and his great year and all his past years as well – he and Jeter did nothing last year and not much the year before — any team the Yankees play will concentrate on shutting them down — pitching around ARod — can he be patient and set the table for Posada – can Jeter be more selective. Can Abreu hit TOUGH pitching and lefthanders. Will ARod he self inflict pressure -you bet he will – zero Home Runs in 58 at bats after number 52 is scary — the picthing was not that consitently great -lots of slop and sliders away – but he was trying to get from 52 to 61 — in every swing – understandable, he was within range — but that is emotion. Can he agin work that sweet all fileds power stroke or will the “I have to do it it in the post season or this season is a bust” demon grab him ?? Many great Yankees have had awful post seasons and the Yankees have still won — if it happens again to Arod can they win without him –

    Even with him at his best my contention is the starting pitching is not good enough to overcome what can be a streaky offense — awful when it is off and now leaking oil at Marsui, Giambi, Cabrerra

    We actually can’t afford to trust Moose or Clemens — neither capable for good reasons aginst strong hitting patient teams –

    • Rich

      Based on your thoughts the Yanks shouldn’t even bother showing up. Maybe they should forfeit and let Cleveland get some rest. After all, the Yanks are the only team in the playoffs that are terrible and no other team has faults.

    • Travis

      Bart, that was so negative, I couldn’t even read through the entire entry. One would think you were writing about the Kansas City Royals, that’s how dour it was.

  • Pfistyunc

    Dear God, I hope you are right. Edwar is terrible. He is a novelty act, a one-trick pony. Besides, if getting pounded in a regular season game makes him cry, how is he going to handle the pressure of October?

    • Relaunch

      Welcome pfistyunc! Please come back and post anytime.

  • Lil Jimmy Norden

    I agree. He’s had the chance to show he can do something, and he’s sitting on a fat 9 ERA and an increasingly long history of bad outings.

    I envision Mo, Joba, Farnsworth, Viz, Villone (yea, I know), Ohlendorf and either Veras or Bruney if they go with 7 relievers.

    For starters, I guess it’s Pettitte, Wang, Clemens (maybe), and Hughes or perhaps Kennedy as the fill in if Clemens cant go. I know Mussina had a few good games recently but I cant really see them throwing him out there in a decisive game.

    For position players, Menky, Cano, Jeter, A-Rod, Mastui, Melky, Abreu, Posada, Damon, Giambi, Molina, Betemit…then it’s up in the air, Duncan, Gonzalez, who knows.

  • The Scout

    The Yankees haven’t had much luck with relievers who rely so heavily on the change-up. (Remember Chris Hammond?) Edwar’s confidence has been shaken by his recent outings, too. I would keep Hughes and Kennedy on the roster, despite the lack of bullpen experience, because I think poise counts for a lot in the post-season.

    • http://riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      IPK was shut down for the year like, a week ago. I’m shocked that bit of news went so under the radar. NoMaas even listed IPK on their playoff roster yesterday.

      Ian Patrick Kennedy will not throw another pitch this year. Stop saying he should get a postseason spot everyone.

      • The Scout

        I misse dthat tidbit, and stand corrected. But I don’t think it would lead me to put Edwar on the playoff roster.

  • sam

    Edwar is not that good of a pitcher. He has had a few good outings here and there but overall has been very inconsistent. Im not sure why he has been in the discussion for a post season spot at all. Im not nearly as enamored with him and his one pitch as many others.

  • zack

    People are so quick to turn on player, huh? Edwar shouldn’t be on the postseason roster, agreed. But that doesn’t mean he’s done or should be traded or any of that nonsense. He’s gassed, which is reason enough to shut him down.

    The fact is, this team probably is going to be SOL if Cleveland’s big 2 are on. There is very little chance this team can win if the offense isn’t hitting at least somewhat. Wang and Pettitte make them better than they were last year, but if both games have the Yanks’ offense only scoring 2-3 runs, its going to be very hard for them (well, for anyone really).

  • Jon

    Locks:

    C (2) – Posda, Molina
    IF (6) – Giambi, Mientkiewicz, Cano, Jeter, Rodriguez, Betemit
    OF (4) – Matsui, Damon, Cabrera, Abreu
    SP (2) – Wang, Pettitte
    RP (4) – Rivera, Chamberlain, Vizcaino, Farnsworth
    Other P/role uncertain (2) – Mussina, Hughes

    That’s a total of 20 absolute locks.

    Others:
    Duncan – need his RH bat off the bench – definite
    Clemens – definite if he can go

    That leaves 3 spots. I guess you want Sardinha as a PR, so that leaves 2 for the pen.

    Choices: Ohlendorf, Ramirez, Britton, Villone, Bruney, Veras

    Bruney – no way
    Ramirez – as you said above, probably no. I like him, but you can’t trust him.
    Britton – hasn’t shown enough, k-rate low.

    That leaves Ohlendorf, Villone, and Veras.

    I pray every night that Ohlendorf makes it. He’s the clear choice. Experience aside, he’s someone with the chance to dominate. He was a starter in the minors and can pitch 2-3 innings.

    I’m hoping we go with Ohlendorf and either of the other two…though I fear Joe will take Villone and Veras.

    If Clemens can’t pitch, then you take both. Since we’re likely to have the short series though, if Clemens can’t pitch, we’re in trouble, because we have nobody that can go more than a couple innings in the pen. That makes the need for Ohlendorf even greater.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

      Damn you, Jon. I’m actually writing a post on this right now. Though I have Villone as a lock, as that’s been the implication over the past few days.

      • Jon

        Yeah, I think you’re right about Villone, because they’re caught up with him being LH. Even though, of course, he’s barely better against LH batters.

        Then because Torre went with Veras to close the other night, I’m afraid they’ll take him too.

        I just hope that Torre wasn’t asleep when Ohlendorf pitched yesterday…he was like Joba-light. Batters had no chance against that slider…

      • Relaunch

        Welcome Joe P! Come back and post anytime.

  • DKA

    Edwar would be the best middle reliever on the Mets.

    There’s no way he belongs on the postseason roster.

    • Travis

      Well said, DKA.

    • dan

      that doesnt really make sense, dennis eckersley in his prime would also be the best middle reliever on the mets

  • RJ – CT

    I just have to mention this. The Red Sox and their fans reacted to the Yankees losing and thus they winning the division, was one of the most embarrassing displays I’ve ever seen! Bravo to ESPN for the way they portrayed it on the highlights, it made the fans, who must have stayed over an hour past the ending of the Sox game just to see the Yanks blow the lead, look even more pathetic then they are, if possible!

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

    A lot of people here are expressing concerns about facing the Indians’ Big Two next week. Sure, Sabathia and Carmona have been great this year. But the Yanks faced Carmona twice this year and he wasn’t overpowering. As for the Indians themselves, even if Sabathia and Carmona pitch well, the team still has to score runs. In their six games against the Indians, the Yanks’ pitching held the Cleveland lineup to 17 runs. That’s it. The Indians will have to be pretty stingy against the league’s best offense to win on fewer than 3 runs per game

    • dan

      Thats a great point. Everyone’s forgetting that the yankees pitching absolutely shut down cleveland’s offense in virtually every game. Cleveland scored more than 3 runs exactly ONE time in six games vs the yankees. If the yankees can’t score 4 or more runs then they don’t deserve to go to the next round.

  • E-ROC

    Yeah, the Yankees pitching did shutdown the Indians during the season series. But Travis Hafner is raking and I don’t like Mussina’s chances even though he has faired well against them.

  • Mac

    I feel like Torre’s going to go with experience here and go with Moose over Hughes if he has to, but I was thinking that it doesn’t really matter. Both of them have dominated against the Indians even AT Jacobs Field. Hughes faced Carmona and pitched 6 innings vs. Cleveland on August 10, letting up only one earned run off a solo shot in the 5th. Also of note, there were 11K’s in that game between Hughes (6), Joba (4), and Mo (1). There were also only 4 hits and 1 BB (all off Hughes). It was also the series opener I believe, so it was a great way to sit Cleveland down. Moose has also had only one start against Cleveland this year, on August 11 (same series). Mussina faced Paul Byrd though and also beat him–7.2 IP, 8 H, 2 ER, 0 BB, 6 K, with Vizcaino and Villone combining to tack on another 2 K and 2 hits total. Although neither guy had to face Pronk in the lineup, looking at these numbers makes me feel pretty comfortable with whoever Joe goes to for the start–especially since this start came just before Mussina’s complete meltdown. Yes, the Indians were cold at the time, but still, those are great numbers. All that said, I’d still prefer Hughes.

    On Edwar: I’d still like to have his change in the pen. I’d prefer to have Ohlendorf though if it came down to the two of them.

  • Count Zero

    Edwar — PS roster — no way. I’m not that down on him long term, but he doesn’t belong on the PS roster this season. Roly Poly Ohlie should get the nod, but I doubt he will unless Cashman pushes it.

    Torre will pitch Mussina in game 4 — bank on it. (Assuming Roger pitches game 3, and we aren’t down 2-0 in game 3 and Roger need to come out in inning 3 or earlier.) Hughes will make the roster but won’t see the light of day unless things go very badly.

    Bottom line: If we don’t hit, we’ll go down in the ALDS — we just don’t have the starters to win in the playoffs. If it goes five, we will see Carmona and CC twice each on short rest. The only thing that gives us a chance is that this team can mash. If A-Rod, Jete, Abreu, Matsui, Posada and Cano lock in (or even four of them), we can beat anyone. We need to score 5+ three times in the ALDS. If we are held to 3 or less three times in the ALDS, we lose. Simple as that.

    That’s my opinion anyway. ;-)

  • Pfistyunc

    Thank you Boston!! They chose the long series so that helps the Yanks avoid seeing CC and Fausto twice each.

    • Relaunch

      It also serves up the Mussina Meltdown.

      • Count Zero

        QFT

        • Relaunch

          BBQ

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