“Source” links Yanks to Santana, Rowand

Haikus, Joe Torre style
Boras seeking leverage wherever leverage can be found

Caught this one on MLB Trade Rumors, so I thought I’d share it with you. As this post’s category makes clear, there are absolutely no teeth to this story. It’s just something to ponder while you have your Sunday morning OJ.

Apparently, the Yanks think a package of Chien-Ming Wang, IPK, and Melky will be enough to land Johan Santana. I think they’re nuts. Yes, the Twins are moving to an open-air stadium in 2009, so Wang’s difficulties on turf will become less of an issue. But it will still be an issue in 2008, so if the Twins plan to contend they might not be doing themselves the greatest service by picking up Wang. Mike has said it before and I agree completely: We’re not getting Santana without Joba or Hughes.

The source also mentions an interest in Aaron Rowand to take over for Melky. Does this mean we’ll see Abreu’s option declined? Not sure. It does create another log jam in the outfield, and I’m not sure Rowand is such a sure bet to fill it well. I’m not the biggest Melky fan (shocking), but I think he stands to put up as good a season as Rowand next year. The moral: Don’t overhype this guy because he’s coming off a career year. He’s had two such years in his career. The rest have been below average.

Still, you could do worse, I suppose. If all of those pieces fall into place, yeah, why not pick up Santana for those three and then sign Rowand? This, though, would almost require Pettitte to come back, since we’re going to need at least two 200-inning pitchers in the rotation. Having them both be lefties is something we haven’t seen in quite a while.

Haikus, Joe Torre style
Boras seeking leverage wherever leverage can be found
  • http://RiverAve.Blues Joseph M

    Including IPK or Melky in this trade would be stupid. The whole point in getting Santana is building on pitching and defense , why then give up a 19 game win plus a pitching prospect, plus a defensive outfielder for Santana. The Yanks should focus the trade around Wang period. Hell, the guy won 19 games in the majors two years in a row, he’s young, how many teams are going to offer that. If IPK has to go then that’s it for the big ticket talent, I would offer a lower level prospect and prepare to walk away if that offer is not accepted.

    The best thing the Yanks could do for their outield this postseason is unload Matsui who I think is one of the softest RBI guys in the majors. On top of that he continues to go south defensively.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

    Wang has won more games than other pitcher the last 2 years, but no one would say he’s in that top echelon of pitchers. He’s in the “very good”, not “great” category. He did have the second highest run support in baseball (behind Verlander) this past year, and the 14th highest in 2006, so that certainly inflated his win total.

    If you trade a Johan Santana, you’ve got to get a stud or two in return. How could you turn to your fanbase and say “yeah we traded the best pitcher in the planet, but we got 2 kinda good pitchers and a mediocre outfielder in return.”

  • yankz

    Melky has never been above average offensively. Sure, he’ll probably get there eventually, but it won’t be by much. And I’m one of his biggest fans. I’m worried how it would affect Cano and A-rod, but I figure they’ll deal somehow. Either way, his production can be replaced in a few years by Jackson/Tabata/other FA.

    IPK might be a very good pitcher. Santana already is an amazing pitcher.

  • Mike R.

    I think we should look at it in a different manner. Santana will only be traded if the Twins decide that it is the best course of action for their team. If that were the case, who could offer a better package than this? There are many teams with better prospects but that alone won’t do it. It would have to be a team with a better package of players and the financial muscle to sign him to a 6 year $120 million contract extension.

  • NYFan50

    I would make that deal in a second, contingent on Santana signing a long term deal. Melky may be great out in center, but there are a number of free agent centerfielders on the market that are just as good or better defensively and offensively, including Rowand.

    The Twins might take a hit with Wang on the turf in 08, but it would give them two young, starting pitchers and a young starting centerfielder to replace Hunter. It’s really not a bad deal for them. Of course, like you said, they’d probably insist on at least one of Joba or Hughes, which is a deal I certainly wouldn’t make.

  • bkight

    The Twins have talented young pitchers in Liriano, Baker, Garza and Slowey. A vet like Wang and some offense might get it done. Maybe Duncan, Betemit or Gonzales would work.

  • dan

    Theres a discussion about this on a previous post (“Bowa may jump ship”)

    The numbers say that the yankees absolutely must pull the trigger if they can extend santana. The money is a different story, I haven’t really looked into it, but the talent says that they have to do this trade.

    Rowand for 3 years? Don’t like it.

  • steve (different one)

    Rowand is seeking something like $84M/6 years. for Aaron Rowand. seriously.

    he won’t get that, but the contract he winds up with is going to shock people and it’s going to be a huge mistake for some team.

    that said, do people really think Melky is the long-term answer in CF for the Yankees?

    • http://riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      6 yrs and $84M for a guy who just had his career year during his walk year in an extreme hitters park? That’s got ugly written all over it.

      I’m not opposed to signing Mike Cameron if they can get him short term (as in 2 years max). He’d give a little more pop from the right side, and he’d make people realize that Melky really isn’t the great defender they think he is.

      And for the record, I don’t think Melk is a long-term solution in center. He’s great for the role they had him in on Opening Day – 4th outfielder who gets maybe 300-350 AB a year.

      • dan

        “and he’d make people realize that Melky really isn’t the great defender they think he is.

        What is this based on? I’d guess you’ve see Cameron more than I have, but fielding stats are extremely inconclusive for centerfielders (FRAA has melky well above average, JInaz has Melky among the worst in the majors).

  • Barry

    i like IPKs stuff alot more than most and I wonder where we would be now if we didn’t have wang, maybe farther into the series. I’d give up wang and although I love melky’s D and I think he has alot of potential offensively i would give up wang and melky but not IPK. I think the future is in the 3 rookies.

  • Ricochet

    There is no question the Yankees are going to make a serious run to acquire Johan Santana but I highly doubt Wang would be in such a deal. IMO in such a deal Melky is very expendable and the Yankees the last I heard was that they weren’t even sold that he was the long term option with Austin Jackson being an option in a couple of seasons.

    The Yankees are and have been taking a wait and see approach with Melky hoping that there patience pays off as it did with the Blue Jays with Alex Rios but that if he didn’t that they have in house option with Austin Jackson.

    So the Yankees aren’t going to actively try to trade Melky but they are willing to deal him if it’s good for them because they have the security blanket of having Jackson.

    IMO Aaron Rowand would be a nice fit for the Yankees, I’m not at all caught up in his hype and don’t worry about what he’s asking for this is his big pay day he’s not super loaded like A-Rod already is so he needs to capitalize but the numbers that are being thrown around now are of course high it’s called a starting point in negotiations. He’s not going to get that type of money at 30 his in his prime and should be at that same level for at least the next 5 years and IMO thats what he will get a 5 year deal worth about $60m. The max I see him getting per season is $14m.

    I think over the next 5 seasons Rowand will be the better CF than Melky will be and the Yanks could use a hard-nosed player like him, while I don’t think he’s Paul O’neill by any means but I think he would bring some of the qualities that O’neill did plus the Yankees are to business-like so having a player like him IMO is a good thing.

    While I like IPK he’s expendable. Do I just trade him because I think he’s expendable? That would be a big NO! To get Santana, YES I trade him especially if that means the Yankees are holding onto Hughes and Joba and went it’s all said and done I don’t think Wang would be in such a deal either. So if you the Yankees can keep those guys and replace Melky with a better CF in his prime then they would be crazy not to do it, sure they will cost more but they keep most of there top youth and have a young rotation that can stay together for along time and don’t forget about the real young kids would they would still have and be ready in few seasons so losing talents like IPK, Horne, Miranda isn’t a big deal.

  • Ricochet

    For all of you that just want to hold onto all the young talent thing big, smart and remember we are talking about the Yankees who make a ton of money that they put back into the club unlike most so they will be money to spend.

    That said here me out and remember some of these guys won’t pan out or will take steps backwards as well as some being great so if you can trade some cheap talent but unknown talents when the Yankees seem to have plenty with what they currently have throughout the farm. So if you can get a guy that’s only in his late 20’s has plenty of great years left in him and has proven over the last several seasons thats he’s the best in the game, you make that deal.

    So if the Yankees need to trade Melky, IPK and others to get an ’08 rotation of Santana, Wang, Pettitte, Hughes and Joba then you do it, thats an awesome rotation thats quite young and other than Pettitte those other 4 could would be a linchpin to having an awesome team year in and year out. There is always talk of building a team around pitching and doing this would be just that plus it would give the Yankees a nice mix and great balance by having 2 young guys, to young Vets and a Vet. When you replace Pettitte they can replace him with a Young guy then continuing that nice mix of being of extreme quality while not being to young or to old and remember the Yankees beyond the prospects that will be ready in ’08 or ’09 that they have a lot of young talent in the farm so going with 3 rookies in ’08 might not be the best idea in the short term and long term.

    In the short term the Yankees get immediately better by having a proven talent in Johan Santana and the Yankees have 2 rookies in Hughes and Joba instead of having 3 rookies in the rotation ’08 which IMO no matter how good isn’t a good idea. Seriously despite the talent do you guys really want 3/5th of the rotation to be rookies?

    As I said here me out and as I’ve been saying that they would have 4 pitchers in Santana, Wang, Hughes and Joba that could pitch together for a long time and they are spread out contract wise so it wouldn’t be a burden to keep them together. Hopefully the Yankees can convince Pettitte to stick around for a couple more seasons but as I was saying before he can be replaced by someone of that next crop of talent that includes Betances, Brackman and McAllister and don’t forget about young talents with super arms in Heredia and Nova.

    Trading IPK, Melky and others make the Yankees better in the present while still keeping plenty of prospects to keep the trend of brining up some youth now and still have youth in the farm to continue to replenish the team with new talent and IMO it sets the team to be better in the future because it would balance out the ages and contracts down the road when guys like Joba hit free agency.

    • Barry

      Joba is great but how can you say IPK is more expendable than say Hughes, Hughes has great stuff too but its not like he’s proven himself to be better than IPK I think sometimes hasty decisions could hurt. Remember Johan would be a lease and there would be no guarantee that he would come back, especially if the Yankees don’t put together a great year next season.

  • steve (different one)

    for the Twins to trade Santana to the Yankees, they HAVE to get back one of Wang, Hughes, or Joba. that simple.

  • Jake T

    We need to actually pull the trigger and count on homegrown guys. Dont go for Johan, and ride out joba hughes and IPK. All this talk about going with the prospects so just do it already.

  • http://yankeesetc.blogspot.com/ Travis G.

    yes, i would make that trade (wang, kennedy & melky) reluctantly. i actually would miss wang the least. kennedy looked spectacular at times this year, and could spot that fb with the best of them. melky is just so fun to watch.

    but to get the best pitcher in the game, you gotta do it (assuming he signs an extension of course). at least we’d keep Phil & Joba.

  • E-ROC

    Why pay twice? I wouldn’t make that trade. There are too many variables. Wouldn’t this mean that Mussina would be in the rotation? Doesn’t terrify the Yankees? Look, I like Johan and is the best pitcher in the game. But Pettitte has a well documented pitching arm, Mussina sucks and Rowand put up contract year type numbers. Is Horne and Marquez ready to step in when called upon? Or Steven White? Clippard, DeSalvo, and Wright had their moments but beaten badly overall. Not many people like Melky and that’s understandable, but don’t people think he can put up Aaron Rowand type of numbers if he’s the starter? Melky will hit for average and about 15 homers and lead the league in outfield assists if he’s a full time starter. Or what about moving Melky to LF and Gardener in CF and trade Damon? I just hope the Yankees aren’t counting on Mussina

    Oh yeah, I saw on ESPN that Posada has a player’s option. So are we adding three years to that option?

  • kunaldo

    to those guys that say we shouldnt go for Santana:

    I’m confused, why is everyone chastising Torre for not winning the World Series every year, but everyone wants to also keep every homegrown player to build for the future?

    Don’t get me wrong, I think we should definitely keep Joba and Hughes, and even Cano, but guys like Kennedy, Melky(i love him too, but lets be real, we’re not sure about his ceiling) and the sort are guys that are expendable if we can get a near 3 time Cy Young winner in his PRIME for the next 5 years or so. And if you are seriously saying he will cost too much, just stop, that shouldnt be a factor.

    If the Yankees MO is to win the world series every year, then we shouldn’t be holding on to marginal prospects when we can solidify our rotation/pen, especially when we have such depth in the system now, and with Oppenheimer and Cash at the helm, they will continue building on that, so that once some of the pitching vets are done, there will be other prospect ready to go.

    In the Bronx, the phrase “rebuilding phase” doesnt exist. Torre was criticized for not winning NOW, so they shouldnt become hypocritcal and save up for the future now.

    (again, i wouldnt deal hughes, joba, or cano)

  • A non mouse

    I’m happy with the rotation we have for next year. Wait until after the Twins screw themselves and hold on to him for too long (like the Nationals did with Soriano and the A’s did with Zito). He’ll walk, and we can sign him and keep our new favorite Yankees.

    • barry

      exactly why not keep ipk and hughes and joba and melky and get santana when he becomes a FA, it doesn’t make sense to give up that much talent when he’s up for free agency so close in the future.