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River Ave BluesYanks ready to trade Hughes for Santana
Posted by: Ben K. in Hot Stove League. Tagged: Phil HughesJohn Harper and Bill Madden are reporting that the Yanks are going to offer Phil Hughes in a package with Melky Cabrera and one other player to the Twins for Johan Santana.
After two days of internal discussions among front-office executives, the Yankees swallowed hard Friday and decided to offer Phil Hughes to the Twins as part of the trade package they hope will land them Johan Santana.
“We’re going for it,” was the way one club source put it…According to the club source, there was spirited internal debate in the organization via conference calls about whether to make Hughes available.
Among the prominent people on the calls were GM Brian Cashman in New York, and owner Hank Steinbrenner and superscout Gene Michael in Tampa. Though the club source wouldn’t say who needed to be convinced, it is no secret that Cashman has wanted to build the team around young, homegrown players, and saw the three pitchers as the centerpiece.
So if Cashman wanted to keep Hughes and Gene Michael as we knew wanted to trade him, I guess Hank could have been the deciding voice. My first reaction: Meet the new Boss, same as the old Boss.
At first glance, I’m not a huge fan of this deal, but the Yanks aren’t giving up anything else. Gene Michael was instrumental in building up the Yankee dynasty in the late 1990s. So maybe we should trust him. Or maybe we should all just jump off the nearest bridge. I’ll leave that one up to you.
We’ll find out over the next few hours, I’m sure, how this story progresses.
Update by Joe: Maybe Harper and Madden are hearing things, but mum’s the word from Hank:
“Anything said at this point, and I expect the other people in the organization to follow suit, you never know how it affects whatever, especially with other teams we’re dealing with,” Steinbrenner said. “It’s just no comment for now. At this point, until we get something done or don’t get something done on whatever we’re looking to do, it’s kind of as far as I’m concerned a lockdown now.”
I’m a psychiatrist. Believe me, I can be vague.
Idiots…at this point, it seems like hoping against hope that Phil Franchise won’t be a Twinkie in a few days.
I’ve been sort’ve on the fence, I can see both angles to this….but hearing Phil could be leaving like a punch in the gut.
I would like to believe that this is just false news. Trading Hughes will be hurt this team in the short and long term…
ugh i hope this is just speculation and that this doesn’t happen
i really don’t want hughes to leave =/
As much as I like Hughes, this is a trade you have to make on paper. We do not play the games on paper but you have to pull the trigger on this one.
A-rod has not brought a championship here, but that was another trade a lot of us Yankee fans did not want to see as we liked Soriano, but on paper you had to make that trade. It was the right baseball move.
If this deal can be done just for Melk and Hughes, we do save another prospect to possibly deal for another OF, or to hold on to for the future.
The beauty of this possible deal is that if the Yankees do not like the terms of the contract extention then they could theoretically back out of the deal. They could put pressure on Santana to take a lessor deal than all of the media outlets (especially NESPN) are reporting.
Just my two cents.
fucking Tampa Mafia.
Doesn’t seem like speculation. I love Hughes but maybe this is it.
Since they drafted Hughes and Cashman has preached building a bridge between the young to old, I would hate too see this trade go through.
I/we all understand that we have kids pitching for us next year along with two veterans. Would it hurt our brain trust to just think outside the box and consider other options?
Making some possible trades… Keeping a poker face posture and calling their bluff…
Great minds Ben, great minds…
I still think everything is in the posturing phase still, but announcing they will include Hughes sure does make it hard to back off that claim. That third prospect best be Tyler Clippard or the ilk and not anyone with real potential.
If you look at a trade of Hughes and Melky for Santana, its really hard not to see it as very fair. The yanks give up ONE of their three studs and a CF who nobody was really sold on, and get back a stud pitcher, who is a lefty in a lefty friendly park. It hurts to give up Hughes, but there is no doubt that this trade makes the Yankees better for at least the next 3-5 years.
And its not like the Yankees have a shortage of young righties in the system. What they do have a shortage of is lefties. In another 3 years, Hughes might be dominant, but so might Horne, Bettences, Brackman, Marquez, Kennedy, Joba, McAllister, Pope etc…
or Hughes and the rest might bust…who knows
i highly doubt any of them will be as highly rated as Hughes. #1 pitcher by BA, BP, others i cant remember now. i honestly believe he’ll have a longer, steadier career than Joba. Joba will have those flashes of dominance, but Hughes will be the rock, the consistent guy. i still cant believe this, but i’ll hold off weeping until it actually happens. it could just be baiting the Sawx (hope against hope).
You better believe Brackman and Bettences have a damn good chance of being the #1, which of course means jack crap considering a look at the last 10-15 #1s…
“Hughes will be the rock, the consistent guy.”
How in god’s name could you possibly know that for sure?
I agee about Phil in the end being better that Joba. He just projects to be better. I sooner give up Joba, an unknown commodity in terms of starting pitching, than Phil.
The rest of those guys aren’t in Hughes’ league.
I’d say Brackman definitely has the potential to be.
this is a trade they will live to forget
Trust the Stick.
I was totally against this but hearing Gene Michael is in favor makes me way more comfortable. He’s a much better talent evaluator than i will ever be.
from the article:
“He was just starting to get that late life back at the end of the season,” one AL scout said Friday. “I think the leg injuries had a lingering effect. He was at 91, 92 (mph) after he came back, instead of 94-95.
“It cost him some explosiveness, and I’ve gotta believe it will come back next season. The impressive thing was that he was able to win anyway.”
one more thing. why did they just promote Eiland to PC if not to help the youngins? acquiring Santana, they might as well have kept Guidry.
The better question is
If that is the case of taking all this money for the offseason and possibly getting santana, why even fire Joe Torre.
You bring in Giradi to help some young players right?
I thought this quote from the new story was the most telling:
“A Twins’ insider agrees that Smith, the Minnesota GM, believes Hughes is the best pitcher he can acquire for Santana, better than either Lester or Buchholz from the Red Sox.”
Better than Buchholz. The twins don’t make many mistakes evaluation talent. They can’t afford to. Smith was Ryan’s lieutenant for years. Smith didn’t fall into the trap of knocking phil for a pulled hammy.
If phil doesn’t pull that hamstring he would have had a strong season. I’d guess they would have placed him in the same light as Joba and not traded him under any circumstance.
At the start of the season how many people said he was “the most important person in the entire organization.”
Maybe not quite in the way we were thinking.
You people are crazy. Santana is the pitcher we need. Hughes is at the height of his value right now. We are getting the best pitcher in baseball for somebody that might one day be as good. I am sick of losing 5 game series. Santana, joba, Andy in a short series is unstoppable. We still have plenty of young pitching for the future. Santana will be the most dominant pitcher that we have had in the past 20 years.
I agree on the high value bit. If he comes out next year and gets hurt again what do they have? A talented but injury-riddled pitcher. Who wants that?
Height of his value? Lol, coming off an injury. Santana isn’t what we need, what we need is to be paitent with the talent we’ve assembled and let it develop. But god forbid we actually have a plan and stick with it.
The Red Sox and twins have played us for chumps.
Who’s to say Hughes stays healthy? He got hurt very easily last year - twice. It wasn’t his arm, but there’s been no evidence to suggest he’ll throw 200 innings a year for each of the next six years.
By contrast, Santana has never been hurt.
You do have to make this trade.
Hughes + Melky = swallow hard, and do it.
Santana has had bone chips surgically removed from his elbow. that would be a much more serious injury than any hughes has had.
When? You can’t make a statement like that and leave out the most critical part.
Santana having elbow surgery in the past is a widely known part of his career. didn’t think documentation was needed.
So after a quick google search that returned 8000 hits on santana and elbow surgery here you go:
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/story.....31016.html
The point is that was after the 2003 season. In the time since, he’s thrown over 800 innings in four season and won 2 CY’s. There’s no injury concern, as you were implying.
Ha ha… Travis G. Good comment! … Tampa Mafia - never heard that one.
Sorry but I’m a Santana believer. I know you guys see more in Hughes and his potential. Can’t say that I think you didn’t make a lot of good points… but look we’re getting a guy that is in his prime and has been amazing for the past couple of years - True Ace no doubt about it. In my eyes Hughes could be an ace but there is some doubt about it at least for me.
But in any case we are by no means getting a downgrade in pitching by aquiring Santana.
Could the money be spent better - sure as hell - but hey we’re lucky we’re Yankees fans… backed by the Tampa Mafia!
One more thing kudos to the guys that run this blog. Just started reading a couple days ago & happy to see there are some good minded baseball people here.
I’ll still believe it when it happens.
“But in any case we are by no means getting a downgrade in pitching by aquiring Santana.”
I think this is exactly the point. Hughes isn’t eligible to pitch 200 innings until 2010 at the earliest. So the Yankees get a clear upgrade for at least two seasons. And two off-seasons ago who had heard of Hughes? Or Joba? Or Kennedy?
The Yankees are drafting very well and protecting their talent. I feel very good about the future.
Think of it this way, the six years the Yankees have control of Hughes, he would cost them about 20 to 22 million. One year of Santana will cost the Yankees 25 million…
As Travis G” hi-lighted what one scout said ““He was just starting to get that late life back at the end of the season,” one AL scout said Friday. “I think the leg injuries had a lingering effect. He was at 91, 92 (mph) after he came back, instead of 94-95.”
The you have health questions being asked by Star Tribune regarding Santans during the last few weeks of the season.
Unless this is a take it or leave it offer then the merry-go-round is just going to stop at Boston and it’ll be up to them if they want to up the ante.
What gets done first, Santana gets traded or Arod finally signs a contract? The Twins don’t need to be in a rush unless they feel Boston or NY will drop out to pursue Haren or someone else.
Who would believe the Yankees threatening to drop out after they’ve already gone back on their “won’t trade one of the big 3″ or “We won’t negotiate with Arod” proclamations?
The money is completely irrelevant.
As for Santana’s health, no doubt a physical will be part of the finalization of the deal, esp. with the extension involved.
The money issues becomes relevant if Santana gets hurt during the season. Then you being to bitch out loud, what a mistake that trade was. On top of that, you now need to go out and fill a void in CF. What over paid 30 plus year can we sign to fill that void? Oh I’m sorry ddi we just give up either A-Jax or Tabata up as well? Why?
The Yankees have Giambi/Mussina/others coming off the books next year. And having to absorb the contracts of Giambi and Pavano while they were injured hasn’t exactly hindered the Yankees from spending. Even if Santana gets injured, they can absorb it.
people still havent learned from the past 7 years? how many times did the Yanks sign/trade for the ‘proven star’? how many times did it help?
That trade they made with Texas a few years ago worked out pretty well. Who did they get again? Alex something, right?
They traded then for the best hitter in baseball. They’re trading now for the best pitcher in baseball. This is NOT Jeff Weaver, or Kevin Brown, or Javier Vazquez.
With that said, I’m still probably going to be unhappy about this in the morning.
you forgot RJ and Pavano.
RJ was old. Pavano was the best FA available after Clemens, Wells, and Pettitte bolted.
Santana is the best pitcher alive and is young.
Wait, I just realized that you made an argument for me.
I have opposed a deal for Santana and a long-term contract all along, so it goes without saying I oppose this deal. This trade is a mistake. I would have preferred to see the Yankees either keep Hughes or retain him as a chip in a possible Bedard deal, since I believe Bedard has a brighter long-term future than Santana.
To me, what is most troubling is the return of decision by committee and of ownership dictating a “quick fix” response. Even if this one works out in the short run (I believe Santana has at most 2-3 front end years remaining his left arm), it opens the door to a return to the dysfunctional organizational that resulted in the shipping out of young talent and other pathologies we saw after 2001. Respect Cashman or hate him (I’ve gone both ways), at least for a couple of years you knew who was accountable. And as far as Gene Michael is concerned, yes, he’s a good judge of talent, but he’s made his share of mistakes — he was, after all, the one who predicted big things from Kevin Maas.
hank has bent over and taken it from epstein and smith… i cannot believe he is this stupid… he really dropped the soap on this one
The Yankees just like the big name and the most popular guy.
I will say this, the yankees better a WS soon if they get Santana. This is ridiculous. When does it stop. When does it stop huh.
I am putting Johan on the spot, and you who I am putting on the spot? Joba is on the spot too, because after all he was mr. untouchable and Johan is the best pitcher in baseball.
This is just plain being greedy. This like the yankees in the 80’s.
Stop please, fuck man, build a team. Oh by the way, fix the bullpen please.
Im Mad right now.
agree 100%
Santana is different. 29 yo and lefthanded and already pitching in the AL.
The only Yankee acquisition even close is the Weaver one. And he didn’t have two Cy’s. Worse, who would have guessed then that Lily would become the best pitcher from that deal?
I thought that once the boss was out that things would be different… I really did. I heard all these things that the stienbrenner sons were pro-cashman… its never gonna end. I am angry
I say this to the pro Santana lovers. Your right he is a great pitcher. A winner. But can you really look at him and say that he is worth us trading Hughes, Melky, plus prospects? The F*ck Sox new when to say yes and no on some trades. They didn’t blink the Yankees did. Fine the trade didn’t happen, but couldn’t The Steins and company stick to their word “We aren’t trading our youngsters”
They never said they wouldn’t trade one of the trio for Santana.
Meanwhile, the Yankees continue to be stacked in the minors. The youth movement continues.
“it opens the door to a return to the dysfunctional organizational that resulted in the shipping out of young talent”
“This like the yankees in the 80’s.”
BS. They resisted the trade for Gagne. They’re trading one real prospect in this deal.
Meanwhile:
Joba
Kennedy
Jackson
Tabata
Horne
Brackman
Sanchez
…
Yeah. People are overreacting. Even if this is a bad deal, it in no way signals the impending collapse of the farm system. Cash could have traded Hughes a million times. He didn’t. He waited for the best pitcher in the world.
Please read with care. I did NOT say the Yankees were shipping out all the young talent. I referred to an organizational structure in which the decision making accountability fragmented and no one on the outside could tell who was responsible. When the Yankees turned down Gagne, Cashman clearly remained in the driver’s seat; Hal and Hank hadn’t yet started to enjoy the limelight. The reported division of opinion makes clear that Cashman has lost the ultimate authority he had supposedly been given when he agreed to his last contract.
“BS. They resisted the trade for Gagne.”
That’s great. It’s like congratulating an alcoholic for passing on an offer of 1 drink and then taking 4 drinks right away.
The one thing I hope is that Ajax or Tabata aren’t included in the deal… these guys would tilt this deal way too much in the Twins favor.
Once Matsui and Abreau are done we’ll need some affordable players.
ok, heres my two cents again….maybe 4 or 5 cents…..could be a quarter
Here’s what I would think Gene Michael is thinking: When building a rotation its like building a bullpen, when all your guys throw the same piutch, it gets old and they get hit, ie farns, proctor, vixcaino, all fast straight and duh duh huh?
Now, your # 1 should be lights out, and you would like your number to to be just as lights out and possibly a # 1 if you didnt have your #1. As for your 3,4,5, maybe stick thinks you want to vary your approach. Hughes is a fastball curve guy right? Ok, so is JOba. Santana blows people away too. Wouldn’t a Santana and Joba blowing people away, Wang making them beat it into the ground, and Ian Kennedy with a mussina like array and pitching style be better than another fastball/curve try to blow them away guy? That gives the yankees three different types of pitchers right there and if they can get pettite back then BANG, theres your wily veteran who hasnt got the same stuff but knows how to get outs by throwing up the damned kitchen sink if he has to.
4 different varying styles i feel would work much better than 4 or 5 blow em away fastball guys. Hughes COULD be one of those guys but might not be. Thats what he is Projected to do. Santana does this.
Easy trade in my mind. Plus melk = kinda overrated
That’s definitely not what he’s thinking. He is NOT thinking “Hmm, we should trade Hughes because he has similar stuff to Joba!”
More importantly, he doesn’t have similar stuff to Joba. Joba’s second pitch is a slider. And his fastball is 6 MPH faster.
Yankees’ FO = morons.
One day after the news that the Red Sox were the leading team for Santana, the Yankees go into desperation mode. You gotta hand it to Epstein, he really made a fool out of our FO.
ALSO one more thing, wqhen the red sox got beckett they gave up hanleyt ramirez, and annibel sanchez and probably someone else. Those two guys have become all star caliber players who were “untouchable for the red sox”
now the sox win a series because of beckett and the players they traded to florida are cheap under tea control and all stars or all star caliber. trade works out for both.
WHy can’t this one be the same?
Good God people, step off the ledge. Do a little bit of rational analysis. Were most of you actually Yankee fans during the 80s? B/c the is not the same thing at all. In fact, I am not sure of a comparable trade in my lifetime. Cone maybe, but we are talking about lower prospects. I guess the real comp is A-Rod-except that Sori was a known commodity.
This is the type of trade that helps teams win–trading from a strength to to get better. The Red Sox already did this trade and gave up MORE for Beckett. Saying that Cashman got hosed by Theo (which makes no sense at all please) and Smith is stupid. This is a fair trade. Minn. was NEVER going to take less than Hughes, deal with it.
You can be unhappy about trading Hughes, you can be unhappy about trading FOR Santana, but you simply cannot be unhappy about the trade itself–Yeah, it would have been great to trade nothing, but when does that ever happen for a 29 year old double cy young winning lefty?
Fine, bitch and moan all next season when Santana is dominating, don’t enjoy being more than competitive. DOn’t enjoy the pure awesomeness of a Santana v.s Beckett, Wang vs. Dice-K, and Joba vs. Buccholz matchup over a weekend at Yankee Stadium. I will. I see two teams that now have even rotations and a Yankee team with a better offensive and a heck of a better farm system…
Also, when is Hughes going to be a better pitcher than Santana? Certainly not next year, or the year after that, or the year after that. And by that time, at least one of the dozen studly RHP will be ready. Santana now + prospect later > Hughes now + prospect later.
Exactly. Hughes shouldn’t pitch 200 innings until 2010.
at the rate Santana is declining, Hughes (imo of course) will be as good or better than him within 5 years.
zack
no one was saying trade nothing. i wanted the final offer to be something like Kennedy, Melky and Ajax. bc the Twinkies demanded Hughes doesnt mean they had to give in. if they dont take it, fine, we’ll go into 08 with highly touted pitcher on the rise, 7 years younger than Santana (and loads cheaper). also with a CFer who doesn’t throw like a girl (is Damon really gonna be the everyday CFer? please shoot me - he’s always hurt and is in his decline phase) and a potential Granderson/Torii type guy in Ajax. how is that a bad situation?