Johan who? We’ve got Pettitte!

Santana: It's Yanks or Red Sox for me
Twins not happy with Yanks ultimatum

This just in from the Houston Chronicle: Awwwww yeah! Andy Pettitte will be back in pinstripes in 2008.

Through people close to Pettitte, the Chronicle has learned that the veteran lefthander has told family members and teammates that he has decided to return to the Yankees in 2008.

That wait is over, and the Yankees have been informed of the decision by Pettitte’s agent, Randy Hendricks.

Now I’m really hoping the Johan deal falls through.

Santana: It's Yanks or Red Sox for me
Twins not happy with Yanks ultimatum
  • GoYankees

    Great news, thanks for informing us so quickly!!!
    And I haven’t even mail him yet, LOL~
    Guess it’ll just be a holiday card then.
    Santana who?
    We’ve got our rotation settled, let some other desperate team get robbed by the Twins.

  • Steve S

    I think it will change the approach. They now can keep IPK in the minors and know that they have 200 innings from Wang and Pettitte each.

    With this whole Haren thing, he is fine but I would want to know what it would take to get a Harden. I know the injury bug has hit him hard, but he is the type of guy the Yankees should look at (similar to the Prior post), buy low on someone of his talent. Maybe even move him into a setup role for a little while. I know its not like Beane to move a guy like that at this point.

  • Ron

    Although it probably won’t, this should definitely alter the Yanks offer for Johan, i.e., they should pull Hughes from the offer.

  • Pfistyunc

    I disagree. I think this should provide even more incentive to get Johan. If they can add Johan and have Pettitte return, they would have a rotation that is capable of winning a championship.

    • Ron

      Yeah, it would be CAPABLE, but what if it doesn’t? Pettitte will be gone, and so will Hughes. I would much rather take my chances w/ a 2008 rotation of Andy, Wang, Phil, Joba & Moose/IPK, and the in 2009 Johan takes over for for Andy and IPK takes over for Moose. That rotation would be capable of winning a champoinship for many years.

      • Pfistyunc

        True, but I don’t think that is the most likely scenario. I think Johan gets moved this winter with an extension as part of it. I don’t think the Yanks will get a chance to sign him without trading for him this winter.

        • Ron

          I definitely think they will. Johan has helped us out tremendously by telling the Twins that he will only accept a trade to the Yanks or Sux, and that he will not accept any trade once the season starts.
          So if the Yanks pull Hughes from the deal, the Sux in all probability will pull Ellsbury. At that point, Bill Smith will conclude that he isn’t getting enough for Santana and goes into 2008 w/ him. And w/ Santana and Liriano heading the rotation, the Twins should be able to compete for the Central division title.

  • Motown Yankees Fan

    That’s great news. I literally just jumped up and did a happy dance.

    Did anyone see the quote in the Star Ledger today from Hank (I’m sure it’s on line somewhere, I read the actual paper) where he said if he doesn’t get Santana, he won’t be crying in his beer with Hughes and Cabrera. I love Hank today.

    Thanks for this great website, by the way.

  • eddie s.

    NOW GO GET SANTANA-this will give us starting pitching @ least equal to red sox

  • Jamie

    This is EXACTLY why I open to you guys FIRST THING IN THE MORNING! Great find Joe… Keep up the good work boys…

    Nothing captures my reactions better than…

    “Awwwww yeah!!”

  • Robert

    Kennedy will be in the rotation next year because he is the only one of the big three that can pitch 200 innings or more right now. He’ll be one that the yankees won’t have to worry about monitoring when it comes to his innings pitched like the other two. Hughes and Joba should in all likelihood be on inning counts.

    With Andy coming back, the yankees can now focus on keeping the young guys, Santana deal or not, fresh the whole season whether it is by use of the farm or just skipping a turn in the rotation here or there.

  • Jersey


    I’m just going to enjoy this right now. I’ll worry about Phil, Johan and that whole cluster-F later.

  • Bo

    I don’t get the reasoning behind all this anti Johan sentiment. It’s not like hes the best pitcher in baseball or anything. Can Hughes be that? Maybe. probably not.

  • Back Bay Yankee

    Awesome. Awesome to the max. But seriously, we’ve already got a take it or leave it offer for Santana on the table. I hope they leave it, the Sox back down, and we end up with Santana for IPK + Melky + Gardner or something like that after a flurry of renegotiations. I’m an eternal optimist, what can I say?

  • LBA Prequel

    Great news! Really helps us settle the rotation. Hopefully this removes some of the desperation from the Santana trade…get Hughes out of that deal. Pettitte in the rotation, with or without Santana coming along, gives us time to see Hughes and Kennedy develop more, and also determine whether Joba will stick as a starter or head back to the bullpen (unfortunately, I suspect the latter, but I’d rather see him as a starter).

    Save the Big 3! Save Hughes! Save Roberto Clem…err…Melky!

  • MS

    Ok, when are you guys making the Pull Hughes Out t-shirts.

  • Count Zero

    Great way to start the week!!! :-)

  • NYFan50

    This is huge. Of course, this means we now only have 2 starters capable of pitching 200 innings this year, but that’s better than 1. :)

    • Jersey

      Let’s not forget, Kennedy should theoretically be allowed to pitch about 200 innings. He was at about 165 or so last year. Obviously it’s no guarantee that he does it, but it IS a possibility.

      • NYFan50

        Yea, I considered that when writing my post. I think he threw 164 last year. I just figured the Yankees would continue to show caution with the young pitchers. And of course, I made the assumption that Moose isn’t capable of throwing 200 innings since he hasn’t done it in years.

  • LBA Prequel

    Will Hughes be on a limited-innings schedule in 2008? Or is it for Chamberlain and Kennedy and other young guns we bring up?

    • jscape2000

      We don’t really know what kind of a limit Hughes will be on. He threw 146 innings in 2006. If things had gone well he’d be looking at 200+ in 2008. Without knowing how much he threw while injured (and what it counts for) we can only guess.

      150 would seem to be on the safe side. 180 feels like pushing it.

  • nmc

    I still think that Santana’s not moving. Here’s what happens (since Santana said that he won’t accept a trade during the season and won’t accept a trade to a team other than NYY or BOS – check earlier RAB posts for more details):

    1. Santana comes to the Yankees for the current offer. I think, even if the Red Sox do include just Ellsbury (and not Lester or Buchholz), that the Yankees offer is better.
    2. The Red Sox up the ante.
    3. Neither team ups, and the Twins don’t get what they’re looking for. They wait ’til next year and get a couple draft picks compensation.

    I don’t think the Yankees will up their offer. If the Sox up theirs, then great. I am OK with the Sox losing two promising rookies, even if it is for Santana. I don’t think it will happen because they basically have the same team from last year and are in this only to get the Yankees to committ more resources – they don’t need Santana.

    Therefore I think it comes down to whether the Twins will take the Yanks’ offer or whether they won’t. I think they won’t because they want 3 high-ceiling prospects so they can’t look ‘bad’ someday, which they won’t get.

    • Count Zero

      “Therefore I think it comes down to whether the Twins will take the Yanks’ offer or whether they won’t. I think they won’t because they want 3 high-ceiling prospects so they can’t look ‘bad’ someday, which they won’t get.”

      I think you hit it right on the head there. This deal will now go down today or likely not at all. And regardless of how you feel about Hughes/Melky/Lesser Prospect, Minny now knows that Hughes/Melky/Kennedy is never going to happen in a million years. Which allows me to breathe a sigh of relief. I’d rather the deal didn’t happen at all, but I can at least live with Hughes/Melky/Lesser.

      Andy was very good to us with his timing today…his announcement had ramifications far beyond his return to the rotation.

  • Cam

    Ok, since Santana said he won’t except a trade during the season, the Yanks should pull their offer from the table, make the Twins keep him, then throw Giambi+Pettite+Moose money at him next offseason when he is a free agent. I don’t mind going a year without him, after all, we didn’t have him this year and still got to the playoffs.

    I read something within the last couple of days where it was mentioned that some think that Hughes actually has the better make up than Joba to perform in NY. The more I thought about it, the more it could make sense. From what I’ve seen of Hughes, he has been nothing short of mature when it comes to handling himself on the biggest stage in sports. As for Joba, the fist pumps/screaming/excitation is all well and good and fun to watch, if not slightly immature. And when faced with his biggest challenge, Joba ended up folding (given the game should have been stopped for the bugs and one can never tell how Hughes would’ve reacted), but even after not having his best outings, Hughes always stayed composed. Just something I’ve been thinking about. Wanting to get some other takes on this.

  • zack

    Holy crap Holy crap Holy crap! Not the news I expected to wake up to!

    But I think the opposite. With pettitte now, adding Santana gives you a DOMINANT rotation. The should go all in (with their current offer of course) and try and get him. That rotation one be one for the ages…

    • Dimaggio5

      I agree, Pettitte by himself is not enough. If they get Santana – the rotation will rock – with that line up behind them. Enough to push back against Satan’s Sox.

  • ohbwonhomie

    yeaaaahaw!!!!Now let me go hogtie myself a freakin’ sukx fan. yeah andy you just made my week.

  • Eric

    I dont see how anyone can hope the Santana deal falls thru. If only to keep him from going to Boston, we have to land Santana. I dont think a rotation of Wang, Pettite, Joba, Mussina, and Hughes is going to be enough to get it done, especially with our weak pen. We need Santana. Melky is easily replaced and theres no guarantee that Hughes will be even half the pitcher Santana is already.

    • Rob_in_CT

      I am one of those people who hopes the Santana deal falls through. I’m that big on Phil Hughes (and Melky has his uses too). I think there is a good chance that Santana will hit the FA market next year, and if so, the Yanks have to be favorites to sign him. Given that possibility, it seems insane to me to trade Hughes+Melky+? for him now.

      I think a Wang-Pettitte-Kennedy-Hughes-Chamberlain/Moose rotation is good, with significant upside. Further, it’s the sort of rotation that projects well into the future. I will concede that Santana-Wang-Pettitte-Kennedy-Chamberlain is even better… at least for 2008. But again, if Santana becomes a FA then there is no need to give away talent to acquire him.

      The other possibility, obviously, is that the Red Sox get him. So be it, if it happens. I’m willing to risk that… I think their offers are specifically designed to bleed the Yankees. I don’t think they’re serious.

    • steve (different one)

      i hope it COMPLETELY falls through. meaning neither team wind up with him. would that be so bad?

  • casey

    Great news to start the work week. I’ve spent the past few days talking myself into Phil for Johan though, and I’m not sure I’m ready to go back. Santana, Wang, Pettite, Joba, IPK and Moose to alleviate innings pitched concerns with Joba (and possibly IPK) sounds delightful.

  • E-ROC

    This is good news. It’ll be interesting to see if the Santana deal gets done. I don’t want Mussina in the rotation.

  • Mike R.

    Heavan forbid I be “That guy”, but this great news triggered something in the back of my mind. Comments on previous posts like:

    “Kevin23 says:

    November 28th, 2007 at 12:07 pm (Reply)
    Wouldn’t it be easier to just start terrorizing his family until he agrees to come back?

    I mean, heaven forbid we demand that he should want to come back on his own fruition. He’s already got 16 million reasons (all better than holiday cards) on the table, so it’s noble for him to wait and make sure he’s got the inner-drive. Let the man do his thing.”

    and a response of:

    Kevin23 says:

    November 28th, 2007 at 6:39 pm (Reply)
    Prove me wrong. Seriously. Please! For the love of God, please!

    That alone would restore my faith in humanity for at least another off-season.”

    when I stated that P46 could work. ( Please reference – )

    This quote comes from Randy Hendricks. “Calls and requests for him to return from Brian Cashman, Derek Jeter, Jorge Posada, Joe Girardi, among others, influenced him, as did an outpouring of requests from Yankees fans,”

    Interesting! Merry Christmas Kevin. Your faith in humanity has been restored.

    • Kevin23

      As the immortal Eyore would say: “Thanks for noticin'”

      I gotta admit, I’m impressed with Pettitte’s selflessness. Coming out in the middle of an intense negotiation like this was a big morale booster. I think it gives momentum to the idea that the players are already excited about playing next year, and we don’t need to sell the farm to make people excited. I like Pettitte on this club. A lot.

  • waswhining

    I don’t know who we have to thank for working the phones to Houston on this one, be it the Ca$hman or Hank, but thank God for Andy stepping up and rescuing us from this Santana mess, if it works out that way.

    For all the “we’ve got the better offer” folks, there has been a report that the twinkies actually regard an Ellsbury based offer higher than Hughes. I think they are smoking something, too. Hopefully the Sawks stick to their guns on not adding Lester and this Santana nightmare recedes. I can see them folding though and walking away with the prize. This is their one shot to make this happen.

    How much of the Sawk’s offer is real and how much is getting the Yankees to pay big for getting Santana is the crux of the problem here. For all the reasons the Yankees have for walking away from a Hughes Melky AND IPK or Horne type deal (Pete Abrahams), you have to hope that the Sawks feel the same way about a Lester AND Ellsbury deal.

    The tickler here is that the Sawks have already made that kind of deal for Beckett (Ramiriz, Sanchez, Delgado and Garcia) and (thanks to Mike Lowell) lived to tell about it. So they might be willing to roll the dice again. But Hanley Ramiriz never had the kind of rooting section that Ellsbury has now. Lester with the cancer recovery has the same thing working for him in Boston. Weigh all that with teaming Santana and Beckett and the possibility of a Johnson/Schwilling combo rearing it’s ugly head as it slouches into Bethlehem (OK, OK, I exaggerate, but this is the rivalry) and you see the forces that are being brought to bear.

    Someone needs to blink to stop the madness of ever escalating trade offers. If the Sawks do, then we can only pray that the Twinkies go home and leave Phil Phranchise on the table. I think they would be idiots to do that, but hey, they live in Minnesota. Step outside today, walk around for a while. Ever watched the Lewis Black Carnegie Hall concert where he talks about how cold suspends thought — “You know I was just thinking what a good idea it would be for …F— IT’S COLD!!!” No one thinks from November until mid April in Minnesota. Let’s keep it that way.

    • zack

      Fans get over their brief attachments to players like Ellsbury when they get to see players like Santana consistently, and see players like Ellsbury take time to develop. Nobody in Boston misses hanley, and if they make this trade, after a year, nobody will miss Jacoby either…

  • Larry

    The comment about maturity and makeup about Joba, I can’t agree with. So, he pumps his fists when he gets a big out. Did you ever see Papelbon pump his fists. I wouln’t worry about Joba.

  • eric from morrisania

    This doesn’t change the Santana deal at all.

    The Twins will still do the Hughes/Melky/mid-level prospect, because in the end, Hughes and Melky are a smarter gamble than the other two options the Twins have, which is wait until later and see if a better offer comes along, or get two draft picks. Of all the names mentioned, Hughes has the potential to be a great pitcher, and the Twins won’t get a better single player than that in any (realistic) deal.

    And I agree with the sentiment that Andy coming back should nudge us closer to making the Santana deal rather than further away, because we’ll only have Andy for one more year, and a Santana/Wang/Pettitte/Chamberlain/Kennedy rotation is a much stronger 2008 team than a Wang/Pettitte/Hughes/Chamberlain/Kennedy rotation. With Pettitte under contract and with Giambi, Matsui, Posada, Damon, Jeter, Rivera, and Mussina all constantly getting closer to retirement, this team is built to win now…

    and with highly regarded Horne, Marquez, and White rapidly on the way (with McAllister, Betances, Garcia and Brackman behind them), we may well have the next “Phil Hughes” pitching in Trenton before you know it…

    • Count Zero

      “With Pettitte under contract and with Giambi, Matsui, Posada, Damon, Jeter, Rivera, and Mussina all constantly getting closer to retirement, this team is built to win now…”

      I can’t say I agree with that. First of all, Giambi is nothing but a huge black hole that sucks up $20MM. Mussina isn’t much better. Matsui is going to be either a pretty mediocre corner OF (all things considered) or a mediocre DH.

      So basically what you’re saying is that Posada, Damon, Jeter and Mo are going to get worse over time — no surprise. But hopefully we will be getting some guys like Ajax, Miranda, Tabata, Romero, Horne, Betances, etc., etc. over that same time. And Joba, Phil, IPK, Cano, Melky and Duncan should actually improve over that same time.

      The Yankees are not in a position where they should mortgage the future to win in 2008 because Jete, Mo and Po are getting old.

  • steve (different one)

    i agree that the yankees are still going to get santana. Hughes will be a Twin by this time tomorrow.

    if the twins are trading santana, they’d be foolish not to take the yankees’ offer.

    i want him to simply stay in minnesota for a year, but that’s not going to happen.

    and i am sure the yankees have known about pettitte for a week, but were saving this “leak” for the crucial point in the santana negotiations.

    this, coupled with a deadline, will spur the twins to accept the yankees’ offer.

  • Kevin23

    So we’re back to a Hughes for Santana + Melky + some mid-level guy deal?

    It’s an interesting prospect. Many people are passionately pushing one way or the other, but I have to say, I’m torn. And legitimately so. This deal, if it includes a six year extension in the realm of $25M per season, would be a huge risk for any other team outside of Boston and NY. I think the Red Sox offer without Lester is the scary one. It’d make the Sox scary good without giving up future pitching at all. I’m hoping the Yanks are trying to trick the Red Sox into giving up too much. I wouldn’t look at this new alleged offer as a bigger threat at all, though.

    In the end, I say Girardi is a better manager of Hughes than he is of Santana. Maybe that’s the tie-breaker. I like the artificial deadline, too…go Hank!

  • BillyBalla

    Cam, it is funny that you mention that Joba, Hughes makeup. We all witnessed the excitement Joba brought to Yankee land, but there is a notion that continues to concern me. We haven’t seen Joba in the starting rotation so in truth we really do not know how many innings we are going to get from Joba or if he is going to last through a grinding long season in 2008. Hughes makeup right now is one of a little more security in the rotation over Joba. This is why I had them ranked as 1a and 1b and I had them both as untouchables. I was willing to sacrifice Kennedy over Hughes even though I feel right now Kennedy may be the one of the three that pitches 200+ innings due to the fact that potential alone pulls Hughes and Joba ahead of Kennedy. This is why you keep all 3 cause you dont know what you really have for the 2008 season as far as Joba and Hughes. 1 or both of them may have to be shut down because of the heavy workload. Would guess that Hughes would be given a longer leash to work with.

    That being said I hope we hear nothing today in regards to Santana. We have Andy back which is great news. Santana starts the year with the Twins and we bid on his services in 2009. There are other options out there that shouldn’t cost us a top prospect and fill the void until 2009, lol. Is Dontrelle Willis a possibilty? Bedard is going to cost at most a Kennedy and another prospect so maybe we look at a Willis. He is 26 years old. He at best right now is a #2 in a bad staff and probably a #3 in most others. With Pettite back and Wang, if we added a Willis with a Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, and Mussina to choose from with the remaining 2 spots. If we need to start a Kennedy in the minors and have him ready as the first call up and than put Moose in the pen we will have Hughes and Joba rounding out the staff. If we need to rest Hughes or Joba we have our options with Kennedy and Moose and even Alan Horne probably just about ready.

    We now have the innings eaters and a solid staff with 2 lefties. Willis value is at its lowest and he may be able to bounce back in the American League as his stuff is still solid. Maybe we trade a Steven White and a Brett Gardner to add Willis. If it takes Melky, than we try and go straight up. They are probably going to want a pitching prospect back as well and we thrown in a Tyler Clippard or Steven White with Melky if that is what it takes. I know this may sound outrageous but it saves us from trading our big prospects and adds another lefty that will eat up 200+ innings and can possibly resurect his career. Maybe he fits in like a Jimmy Key did in 1996! Would you make this trade?

    • SG

      “We now have the innings eaters and a solid staff with 2 lefties. Willis value is at its lowest and he may be able to bounce back in the American League as his stuff is still solid.”

      Willis would be an unmitigated disaster in the Bronx. He’s a nice name and all, but he isn’t very good. Trading Melky for him would be a terrible deal, and I’m in the “Mellky is a 4th OF” camp.

      • Count Zero


  • Mike R.

    I guess that this could be good news for those wishing for the deal to fall through.

    • Count Zero

      Indeed it is. C’mon Hank! Piss them off some more! ;-)