According to George King, Matsui may be amenable to waiving his no-trade clause. I’d rather not see the Yanks ship out Hideki unless they can get some offensive returns in place. Counting on Jason Giambi to carry the DH spot will be a big mistake.
Counting on Giambi? That’s a joke right? I pray it is.
From that George King article: “lefty Johnathan Sanchez could be the start of a Giants package. Four of Sanchez’s 33 appearances last year were as a starter. He was 1-5 with a 5.88 ERA.” No way you can trade away 100 RBI’s for a guy who has a 5.88 ERA in the NL west. That must convert to a 7 ERA in the AL East.
The dude is 24 years old. You can’t go judging him by one year.
I realize the Lincecum deal would be a pipe dream, but if they’re going to deal Matsui anyways, why don’t we just sweeten the package and go for Lincecum anyways?
Hell, I move Damon before I move Matsui. His value as a leadoff hitter isn’t that spectacular to keep him on this team. Matsui, if healthy, will bring in over 100 RBI this year. And Giambi will get hurt, no matter what.
So, bottom line, unless they package Matsui + Kennedy + ? + ? for Lincecum, I’d rather not deal for Lowry or Sanchez, especially Sanchez, who as others have pointed out, will be even worse in the AL than he currently is in the NL. No way I deal Matsui for relief help.
the Yankees prefer trading Matsui b/c he can probably bring more in return and because he can no longer play the OF. he’s a terrible defender.
Damon, for all the grief he gets from Yankee fans for his arm, will play a very good LF. probably good enough to make up the difference in their offense.
I would miss Matsui’s professionalism, but it will be hard to carry Matsui, Damon and Giambi on the roster. If the players the yanks get back are real quality, this trade makes sense. Maybe it give the pieces to make a Santana trade without Hughes?
If Giambi gets hurt, the Yanks could just play Betemit at 1st and Duncan at DH and see how it plays out, maybe Juan Miranda will be ready. Or they could shift Damon to DH, Melky to Left and give either Gardner or Ajax a chance.
If (when) Giambi does get hurt, the yanks still will have interesting options.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if Carlos Pena from the D-Rays is a free agent this year. I could have sworn he was in his walk year and people was saying it was perfect timing for him to have a career year. If so, we should definitely make a move on that. He would solve the 1st base defensive issues, as well as giving us a big time bat from that position which we havent had in years.
No, no. He has two more years until free agency.
He’s not a free agent. He became eligible for arbitration this year, but doesn’t have the necessary 6 years of MLB service.
Joseph P: “The dude is 24 years old. You can’t go judging him by one year.”
– Exactly … he’s not worth moving a proven player for.
I really am not in favor of trading Matsui. I would really not look forward to the trio of Giambi, Duncan and Betemit at 1B/DH. That would leave a very real possibility of getting almost nothing out two positions that are usually key sources of power in a lineup. If healthy, Matsui will get over 20 HR and 100 RBI, i just don’t see how they can deal with losing that kind of production.
Has the possibility been raised that trading Matsui could lead to an Aaron Rowand signing? I suppose you’d have to move Melky to left … i don’t know if rowand would be too jazzed on coming in to play left himself …
just throwing this out there .. obviously
Remember Yes Matsui hit 100 rbi’s.But the lost of prodution from Gary Sheffield,Derek Jeter,Matsui,Damon compared from 2006 it’s big but we still made the playoffs.
Jon Sanchez = Sean Henn
I WANT MATT CAIN!! Not logical, though…
he is Sean Henn except for the fact that he strikes out a batter per inning.
so in other words, not Sean Henn at all.
Matsui is not a spare part. He’s a valuable part of this batting order and this team needs 4 OFers. Giambi? Please people, enough with “if Giambi stays healthy…”
If he’s part of a Lincecum or Cain package fine, but otherwise no.
The Yanks should push hard for Lincecum or Cain. If that doesn’t shake out, don’t settle for anything less than Brian Wilson. Isn’t he suppose to be their potential closer?
I wouldn’t sign Aaron Rowand, especially not for 4 or 5 years. The Yanks should take a chance on Kosuke Fukudome or Alexei Ramirez.
i wouldn’t want to sign rowand for 4 or 5 years either .. but the FO must realize that if they trade matsui they’re going to need to something (and it might be as simply as gardner)
IF we trade matsui and people dont want giambi starting what about looking at bonds. Say al the negative things u want about the guy but fact is he can still hit. He fits in great in our line up and fits even better in Yankee stadium. This would replace and possibly enhance matsuis would be production
i would take bonds and his .480 OBP any day of the week!!!!
Ok, scratch Fukudome off that list. He’s asking for 5 yrs. That’s a big commitment even though he projects well. I like him more than Rowand. But whatever.
If Fukudome doesnt sign with SD, which it sounds like the Cubs are the favorite right now, why not try and package Matsui and Igawa to SD for Chase Headley and a couple of minor league arms?
You might be able to spin Headley, as one of the best 3B prospects in the game, as a new centerpiece to get Johan… worth a shot, right?
The offense is a luxury, they scored 900 something runs last year. And if everyone here is predicting enough glory for the “Holy Trinity” for us to say no to the best pitcher is baseball, then I think its safe to trade a declining left fielder. PROVIDED, you get something in return. In this scenario the fantasies of Cain or Lincecum arent going to happen, and you cant trade your leftfielder/DH for a lefty reliever from the National League west.
Sorry there, Lloyd, but Matsui is a poor defender. He has bad range, takes quesitonable routes to balls, and has a weak arm (but he has a quick release!!111!!). Those observations (from watching ~160 games a year) are backed up by various defensive stats.
I like Matsui, though. Solid bat. Not someone to give away on a pitcher who walks as many guys as Sanchez does. The Ks are nice, but Sanchez is not worth Matsui. Nothing in his minor or major league numbers suggest he’s going to be good enough for the AL – certainly not this year, anyway. Way, way, way too many walks.
If we’re talking a Matsui-based package for Lincecum or Cain… that’s another matter. Then I’m all ears.
Crap. That was supposed to be in response to Lloyd Banks’ comment below. Meh.
Steve (different) one – whatever that means,
You obviously dont watch Yankee games. Matsui is hardly considered a “terrible defender” as you so aptly put. While he sometimes gets bad jumps on the ball, he still is capable of making the great play and he has a very quick release on his throws. To make a statement that he “can no longer play the outfield” is just dumb. He is more than suitable out there. Does he possess the range he did back in ’03/’04? Ofcourse not. But to cash in the chips and say he’s no longer capable of playing defense is ridiculous.
Moreover, whats the use of trading Matsui to a NL team if he’s a “terrible defender.” Sounds to me that the Yankees wouldnt be able to “get more in return” for a guy who “can no longer play the outfield.” If I were you buddy, I’d spend a little more time trying to make some sense instead of undercutting other people’s posts and acting as if you know everything (see Sean Henn comments) – cause u sound just as dumb.
Steve (different) one – whatever that means
it means there was another “Steve” here first.
You obviously dont watch Yankee games.
yes, i do. i watch all of them. but i realize this is the standard argument for when someone disagrees with someone: “maybe you should watch the games”. good one.
Matsui is hardly considered a “terrible defender” as you so aptly put.
yes, he is. he is bad. all of the defensive metrics will agree with me and disagree with you. if you want to make a claim that matsui is not a bad defeder, i’m willing to listen to any arguments you can back up with evidence. i’m sorry, but “i watch the games and say he is good” is not evidence.
Moreover, whats the use of trading Matsui to a NL team if he’s a “terrible defender.”
i don’t know, i am not Brian Sabean. i am not sure what that has to do with the Yankees though.
If I were you buddy, I’d spend a little more time trying to make some sense instead of undercutting other people’s posts and acting as if you know everything (see Sean Henn comments) – cause u sound just as dumb.
i really don’t give a crap what you think. i’m not going to resort to name calling, but if you think any of the posts you have made over the last 2 days prove that you know anything about baseball, i can’t help you out.
i’d love to hear more about how making Joba a reliever is a really good idea though.
can people please stop bringing up RBI as part of Matsui’s value. that’s mostly a team dependent stat. no way would he haved 100 RBI in that pathetic SF lineup.
Sanchez has nice K rates, but his control is loopy. do we really need another Bruney type?
i think Cash is smart: he’ll add some pieces to Matsui to try to acquire Cain or Lincecum. if it doesn’t work, he might settle for Sanchez plus for Matsui.
and while we’re at it, in addition to Igawa, what would it take to get Cla Meredith from SD? he has sick GB rates and good BB rates.
btw, getting Lincecum or Cain from SF is NOT a pipe dream. Sabean is actually considering Lincecum for Rios straight up! wouldn’t a package of Matsui, Kennedy/Horne and Ajax/Tabata where we pay most of Matsui’s salary get or nearly get us one of them? wtf, throw in Hilligoss and Marquez if not.
this is what i kind of believe, too.
a friend of mine seems to think Sabean just needs to suck it up and be a bad team for a couple years before they should think about trading Lincecum or Cain… and that even if they traded for Matsui and a young pitcher to replace Lincecum or Cain, they still wont be good by the time Matsui’s time with the team is done, so for the Giants it doesnt make sense.
but i would imagine if you offered a Matsui, Horne/IPK, Tabata package, you can prob get Cain (i wouldnt trade that much to get Lincecum. Cain to me is the more proven commodity and should be the one to target.)
they’d get a mlb-ready pitcher to replace Cain, plus offense for that awful team now, and get a OF to develop for a couple seasons from now when Matsui’s contract is up… how they’d do lincecum for rios straight up and not think twice about this deal is beyond me.
I think Giambi has a huge contract year. Remember, we all thought he was done in 2004 then he came back big for two straight seasons. I think he’ll do the same in 2008.
Did anyone notice that the line about the yankees having an interest in Corey Patterson, I havent read that anywhere. In fact Ive heard nothing about Patterson who is not the appealing.
Patterson would be a 1-year option for CF should Melky be traded, or a decent 4th OF/bench option should Matsui go. I dont imagine the Yankees would be interested if either of those players arent moved.
It’s not that I don’t like Matsui, because I do, but trading him isn’t a bad option. With Shelley Duncan probably spending alot of time at 1st base and his power potential plus Giambi theres no reason you can’t get over Matsui’s bat and no one should miss his defense, Plus don’t be surprised if you see Posada spending more time DHing and maybe even seeing some action at first over the next season or two as the Yankees need to preserve his health for 4 years. Another thing instead of trying to get more young pitching, why don’t we go after a guy like Saltamachia(i know i murdered the spelling)
I’m not so sure we’d have to. We have a good catcher prospect in our system.
I’d like to leave IPK out of any talks with SF. Im sure we’d still be able to pocket Lincecum without him.
WOW that is why I knew letting go of Dougie was a bad move, if this does happen we will have giambi as DH, Shelly at 1st base if he is healthy(betemit is a backup at best) and no legit backup outfielders unless you put betemit at first then shelly in the outfield. Very bad since at best the yanks will end up with mediocre backup’s and injuries are always a problem for the yankees.
We need to sign Doug for first base and use betemit and duncan as big bats from both
whoops pressed enter too fast.
I meant big bats from both sides of the plate and mediocre back ups.
Lloyd you really need to lay off the caffeine.
Me: Moreover, whats the use of trading Matsui to a NL team if he’s a “terrible defender.”
You: “I don’t know, i am not Brian Sabean. i am not sure what that has to do with the Yankees though.”
I’m pretty sure you know what that has to do with the Yankees – u indicated that the Yankees could get “more value” now by trading Matsui (to the Giants since they are currently his only suitors) and that is clearly wrong. If you think that Matsui is as bad a defender as you think he is, SF wont give up anything for him. So yea, i’m pretty sure that has something “to do with the Yankees” since it effects the value they will get in return for Matsui, and thus, would effect their thinking on the matter.
In regards to Joba, you have ur opinion and I have mine. Its obviously debatable since no one knows where Joba will be placed next year – if anything its 50/50 right now (especially with his restrictive pitch count). No one needed to hear ur rant and embellishments over what i articulated yesterday re: Joba. You have ur opinion, and I have mine. If anything, my opinion has more clout since Joba never pitched one inning as a starter (yet ur convinced he’ll be the next Roger Clemens) and we’ve seen him dominate as a reliever. So instead of acting clairvoyant, just respect my argument for what it is as i will respect yours (and everyone elses for that matter – my Joba piece clearly touched a nerve). You dont have to act like Brian Cashman and come off as if you “know” the Yankees – cause you know as much about the Yankees as the rest of these bloggers. We’re all die hard fans here who get our information from all the same media sources. No one has a distinct edge over the other.
Furthermore, i never said i knew more about the yankees from “watching the games.” All I did was make a comment that i felt you had not seen enough of Matsui last year since you made him out to be Jose Canseco in left, which in my opinion, was a gross exagerration.
Finally, I feel that your confidence in Damon is misplaced. The guy was hurt for 70% of the year last year and played a nice LF during September. There is no way you can support the sweeping statement “Damon will be very good in LF” based on a very small 6 week sample and annoint him as the replacement for Matsui that we’ve all been looking for. The guy is old and breaking down, if he gets injured again next year the way he did last (and i’m talking leg injuries, similar to the ones he chronically suffered from last year – you know those 2 long things that he needs to make sure he plays “a very good LF”), the Yanks defense will be in serious trouble if they trade away Matsui.
I anxiously await your response. I can go all day with this buddy. Lucky for you I have to be in court in an hour though, so any rebuttal by me may have to wait.
Tell us how exactly the Yankees’ defense is going to be in serious trouble if they trade away their starting designated hitter. I’d love to hear this one.
Right now – and for much of last season – Matsui wasn’t the left fielder. Johnny Damon, a far superior defender, was. If the season were to begin with the current Yankee roster and Melky Cabrera still on the team, Matsui would once again be the DH. He is, by all accounts, a pretty bad defender. He doesn’t have much range; he doesn’t play the wall too well; and his throwing arm is erratic at best despite a sometimes-speedy release. That’s why, as we all know from the games, he no longer plays left field on a regular basis.
On another note, cool it with the personal attacks. If you want to debate our points and the future of the Yankees, fine. But do it without name-calling and excessive cursing at other people. We’re all Yankee fans here.
I dont know why people keep saying that Cain/Lincecum are fantasies. Like the Giants GM hasn’t traded high end pitchers before????
Maybe thge Yanks have targeted one of those two to be their front line addition to the rotation. Without giving up Hughes in the process. Also get someone real young and cost affordable.
Cashman should get creative.
The Lincecum deal is a fantasy. The Liriano, Nathan deal was nothing like this situation. Nathan was a failed starter at the time, and Liriano was in single A. Yes he is at fault for not realizing what he had but Lincecum and Cain are known commodities at this point. And Rios at this point is a much better player than Mastui, especially for an aging National League team. Not to mention the fact that Mastui’s contract is affordable considering the added revenue he brings in for whatever team has him playing, so there is no way the Yankees pay any of his salary, even if they get one of those kids. Its just not a match.
I’d rather drink Drano than read a Lloyd response where he attacks a commenter here. These boards should be no place for that foul stench of personal attacking.
Bo and Ben,
You guys need to relax and be a little more equitable. I’m just defending myself here, your boys Steve (different one) and Lanny have been going on a tirade of personal attacks the past 2 days and my entire post was based on the defense of a fellow blogger who was accosted by steve. I understand if you guys want everyone to hug it out, but atleast be fair when it comes to your accusations of me as a bully.
Well then, the name-calling in general should just stop.
maybe i am crazy, but i am 99% sure you started the name calling and cursing in earlier threads. several of your posts had to be removed by the moderators here. now you seem shocked that people reacted to that.
hey, if you want to start over and bring the tone back to civil, i’m all for that.
i’m not going to debate everything here point by point, b/c it would take forever, so i think it’s best if we just agree to forget it and move on.
The pt i was trying to make in regards to the Yankees defense and Matsui – was that if they traded their 4th outfielder, and relied on a broken down Damon to play LF every day for a full season, that would certainly hurt the yankees defense. Its common sense bro. You cant go into next year with 3 outfielders, 2 of which are nearing the end of their careers, and say the Yankees defense is strong. Im just of the mindset that the Yankees would be better off in a number of areas, defense included, if they kept around Matsui. Yes Damon has great range, but: (1) he still cant time his jumps correctly at the wall, (2) he’s shorter than Matsui; (3) his arm is one of the worst in ML history; and (4) he is susceptible to the ball hit over his head with a runner in scoring position since he has to move in a little to have any chance to hold the runner at 3rd.
So yes, in my opinion, i think that the Yankees defense would be better served by keeping Matsui around as atleast an OF security blanket, than trading him away for suspect NL pitching. I hope this post didnt offend anyone.
And if they trade an aging DH for young arms who can serve as trade cogs for a Johan or a Bedard, is that not getting your value and then some?
I understand the need to insure against more Damon injuries, but we’ve got some fine young outfielders dying to make fans, a whole lot of DH’s, and no one ever got hurt by having a stockpile of young arms. The best insurance is to spread the risk, is it not?
They’d use Gardner as a 4th OF to spell Damon if they traded Matsui (unless they brought in Rowand, Corey Patterson, etc.)
Isn’t Rowand like Damon Jr.? Essentially a big injury waiting to happen?
Its cool. My bad. We’re all on the same team here (figuratively speaking).
So what inning should Joba picth, 7th or 8th? jk
as long as he starts the game, i’d like to see him pitch the 7th AND 8th innings every time out…j/k
let’s just remember how awesome it is that we as yankee fans actually have a guy that we can debate if he should be used as a #1 starter or a shut-down bullpen ace. and he’s only 22 years old.
it’s been a long time since we’ve been able to say that.
I think alot of people in this thread are OTR(on the rag). Go take some midol fellas.
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