Dec
10

Phils slightly interested in Mussina

By

Our buddies at MLB Trade Rumors directed us to this article in the Rochester Democrat & Chronicle. Scroll past the football bits, and you’ll land on this gem:

The Philadelphia Phillies reportedly have a mild interest in New York Yankees pitcher Mike Mussina. Pitching against National League lineups, without designated hitters, could extend Mussina’s career long enough to boost his Hall of Fame hopes. He’s no cinch to make the Yankees’ starting rotation.

Granted, I have mild interest in a lot of things that never come true, but hey, it’s a slow day. Now, as long-time readers of RAB know, I’m no fan of Mike Mussina, and while my kneejerk reaction to this rumor was something along the lines of “Don’t let the door hit you on the way out,” I think the Yankees actually need Mike Mussina.

In 2008, somehow, the Yankees are going to need to fashion together 1,458 innings, give or take a few extra-inning affairs. By and large, this means finding some starters to throw 200+ innings or, barring that, finding enough starters to put together enough innings. The Yankees have Andy Pettitte and Chien-Ming Wang penciled in for about 200-220 innings each. But after that, things look a little dicey.

Had Phil Hughes escaped injury, he would have been on target for about 180-200 innings pitched in 2008, but it was not meant to be. After reaching 146 in 2006, Hughes missed significant time and ended the year with a combined total of 116 IP. The Yanks will try to cap him around 150 in 2008, I think. Joba Chamberlain threw a combined 116 IP as well in 2007, and I’d probably peg him at 150 max in 2008.

So that leaves Ian Kennedy. He threw a shade under 170 innings in 2007 with an increase of 70 innings pitched from 2006. The Yanks could push him up to 190 or so, but they would probably want to keep him around 170 again.

Enter Mike Mussina. Unless we want to live through Kei Igawa and a parade of Jeff Karstens, Darrell Rasner and the guy begging for change on the street, the Yankees may need 150 innings or so out of Mike Mussina.

So never mind that this trade – this hypothetical, maybe-the-Phillies-are-interested trade – has a minuscule change in hell of happening. It might not even be good for the Yanks if it did.

Categories : Hot Stove League
  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

    I hear the guy begging for change on the street has a 2-yr, $20M offer in hand from the Red Sox though. Fucking Epstein.

  • Eric

    150 innings max for Joba? So if he doesnt get hurt and goes 30 starts does that mean hes getting the hook every game after 5 innings?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      They’ll skip him over a few times on off-days and stuff. They’ll take it easy with all the kids, so yeah, Moose is important. Cash isn’t not trading these guys for Johan just to run them out there for a dangerous amount of innings so they can get hurt.

  • Glen L

    I’m not so sure at this point that Karstens, Rasner, et. al are any worse that Moose. At the same time, I wouldn’t want to trade him just to lose his salary and pick up a low-level prospect.

    Kei Igawa, on the other hand, I would trade for a pack of Hubba Bubba bubblegum and a “best of luck with your season” wish.

  • LLOYD BANKS

    Just outta curiosity, if 3/5th’s of our rotation cant go over 150 innings, whats going to happen to them come late-August/September – are we supposed to just shut them down. Also, god forbid we make the playoffs, what happens then as well? How the hell are we supposed to be exicted about these 3 kids if they cant even pitch in October for 2-3 years?

    And i know what ur gonna say, “we just take them out after 5 and let the pen earn their paychecks.” Ok, great, so now the PEN wont be able to pitch in October either. We’ve been down this road before…

    Bottom line, i still think we should make the trade for Santana, put Joba back in the pen (where he belongs), and go into the season with 3 horses (santana, wang, and pettite) and a well-above average bullpen led by Joba and Mo. Thats the only way we can compete.

    Look, i know everyone wants to be cute and rely on the rookies to take us into the future. Thats great and all, but our team is 80% veterans, and they arent getting any younger. By the time the Rookies become “ready”, Jeter, Posada, Rivera, Abreu, and Arod (maybe) will start the inevitable decline. So now we have 3 good picthers, but no one around them to play. Not good.

    Yankees need to get that 3rd horse in the rotation and put Joba back in the pen where he was lights out. Bottom line, Joba looks like he may be a better releiver than starter. His stats were mind boggling the first time around the order, but came back down to earth (albeit slightly) after he saw some guys more than once. He has 2 excellent pitches (fastball and slider) with a mediocre curve and a suspect change. Not exaclty a great combo for a guy who has to pitch 7 innings and face the same batters 3-4 times. He’s more suited for a slam-bam-thank-you-mam role.

    • Glen L

      have you seen joba pitch as a starter? have you looked at his stats as a starter? … are you just making stuff up?

      he’s got WAY WAY WAY too much potential as a starter to waste as a reliever

      if you keep moose and you work off more or less a 6 man rotation, all your questions are answered

    • CB

      Its ironic that at the same time you say the yankees have to get Santana at all costs and should move joba to the pen.

      Every year the yankees lack a true ace. Joba is the closest they’ve come to having a definite home grown ace in years.

      The Mariners should move King Felix to the pen to set up Putz. Zumaya is hurt and Detroits pen stinks. They should move Verlander to the pen as well. He’s be “lights out” setting up Jones. The Giants pen stink – move Lincecum to closer and Cain to the set up role.

      What sense does this – let’s take our most talented arm and stick him in the pen thinking make?

    • steve (different one)

      Thats the only way we can compete.

      really, the ONLY way?

      wow, i guess there is no point in even playing the 2008 season without Santana in pinstripes. it’s the ONLY way to complete.

    • steve (different one)

      And i know what ur gonna say, “we just take them out after 5 and let the pen earn their paychecks.”

      uhh, no, that’s not what anyone was saying. hence the entire point of the entry, Mike Mussina. Mussina is going to have to start 25 games.

      honestly, when i got to the part about Joba, i was convinced that your post was a parody. was it?

      • Kanst

        Exactly it isnt hard, you start the season with 4 starters, Joba and Hughes stay in Tampa for 2 weeks. Thats 2 starts a piece skipped. When we have an offday we skip one of them instead of pushing the other starters back a day. If there cap is 150-160 innings then they can start about 25 games in the regular season. An average #3 or #4 starter only makes about 30 starts, so we have to skip them 5 times over the course of the season. That really shouldnt be that hard to manage.

        As for Joba you are just wrong. His FB and Slider are true plus plus out pitches, his curve is above-average flashing plus, and his change is slightly above avergae, you don’t take a guy with 4 good pitches and make him a reliever. One of the biggest compliments about Joba is that he mantained his velocity deep into games. For all of Mariano’s accomplishments, the only reason he is a reliever is because he couldnt cut it as a starter

  • CB

    They can’t get caught shorthanded with starting pitching again.

    This year is going to be a transition year especially with the workloads the big three can absorb. And that’s without injuries.

    If Wang or Pettite go down with injuries for even a short period of time then the innings issue and the stress on the pen become even a bigger issue.

    They need mussina though I don’t think he’s even close to being an AL East pitcher anymore. He is nonetheless a much better option than karstens, igawa, etc.

    Horne, Marquez, McCutcheon might not be ready this year or may even be needed in the pen.

    Keep Mussina.

  • Samples

    Does anybody know why they didn’t send Hughes for some winter ball to build up more innings? It would seem to have made some sense. Joba too, in order to work on his other 2 pitches a bit more after shelving them for the last few months of the season.

  • LLOYD BANKS

    Hey CB,

    If my memory serves me correctly, im pretty sure the only reason why we even made the playoffs last yr was because Joba was sent to the pen and we finally stablilized that train wreck of a bridge to Mo. Without Joba in relief, we dont make it to October last yr, thats indisputable.

    So yea, i think it makes some “sense” to put Joba back in that role. Tell me i’m wrong…

    • CB

      Lloyd,

      I agree that without Joba last year – no playoffs. For half a season putting him in that was fine.

      But Joba throws 4 pitches two of which are plus/plus now. The change and curve are developing. In addition, He sits at 96-98 deep into his starts. It’s not that he touches 97-98 – he sits there for whole games. He has Justin Verlander type stamina. You don’t waste that in the pen – a place where he’s going to throw 2 innings max. It would be wasting one of his most valuable and rarest skills – that amazing stamina.

      This is why I just don’t agree with this line of thinking that says because Joba was successful last year in the pen we should keep him there.. Having a guy throw 70 innings as a reliever isn’t nearly as valuable as having him throw 200 as a starter. It’s not even close.

      Relief innings are easier to throw than starting innings – you don’t go through the order multiple times, etc. Converting Mo – a guy who had one dominant pitch – to a relief role makes a lot of sense. Joba does not fit that profile. There was a reason why the tigers put Zumaya in the pen and Verlander in the rotation. Joba is much closer to Verlander in terms of his array of pitches and stamina than he is to Zumaya.

      Joba was amazing out of the pen. But he has special stuff – the kind of stuff that makes an ace. You could take any of the young piitchers who have comparable stuff – Felix Hernandez, Tim Lincecum, Justin Verlander, Josh Beckett- and put them into the pen. Each of them would dominate. But their talent is much greater than the limited role a relief pitcher serves. They would be successful in any role you put them in. They are that talented.

      Your point on Santana can’t be argued with – the yankees don’t have an ace and santana would be one. But this is the same reason that they need to keep Joba in the rotation.

      The hardest thing to get in baseball is a true ace. Joba projects to be an ace if he stays healthy.

      On the other hand it is much easier to find relief pitchers than finding an ace starting pitcher (which of course is what makes santana so valuable as you point out). The yankees have a wave of talented young relief pitchers coming up from the minor – melancon, cox, whelan, robertson. They are suited for a relief role. But none of them has the potential to be an ace.

      If they put joba in the pen this year it will set back his development for the next couple of years – instead of strengthening his arm to stretch him to 150 innings or so – he’ll be decreased to 70. So if they want him to start in 2009 he may only be able to throw 110-120 innings. That’s why even the argument to keep him in the pen another year doesn’t fly for me.

      In a 5 game or 7 game playoff series with Joba anchorig the starting staff – I’ll take my chances against any team. He has that kind of ace stuff.

    • steve (different one)

      Without Joba in relief, we dont make it to October last yr, thats indisputable.

      um, sure it is.

      he pitched 24 innings. the yankees made the playoffs by 6 games.

      it certainly is disputable that Joba was worth 6 wins in 24 innings.

  • Steve S

    You trade Mussina in a heart beat if you can but he isnt going anywhere.

  • Lanny

    Maybe the Sox should put Beckett in the 8th inning too.

    Liriano should set up Nathan when hes back.

  • Nick

    You’re wrong for the exact reasons CB mentioned.

    The Twins started Johan in the pen, and he was pretty good, why didn’t they just leave him there?

    I don’t know where you read about his “average” curveball, but that’s incorrect. Any scout will tell you he has a plus fastball, plus slider and above average curveball. Look back at the tape and see how many knees Joba buckled by throwing a curve with two strikes when everyone was expecting the slider. You don’t put someone with that much potential in the pen.

    “He has Verlander stuff, but if it fell apart, he’d still be Jonathan Broxton.”
    Scouts don’t say that about set-up men.

  • eric from morrisania

    List of “innings eaters” who I have just as much confidence in right now as I have in the venerable Mr. Michael Cole Mussina:

    Jeff Karstens
    Darrell Rasner
    Sean Henn
    Chase Wright
    Matt DeSalvo
    Steven White
    Steven Jackson
    Ben Kozlowski
    Alan Horne
    Jeffrey Marquez
    Brett Smith
    Kei Igawa (yes, I said it, Kei fucking Igawa)
    and…
    Runelvys Hernandez.

    If the thought process is that Pettitte and Wang get 33 starts each and the three young guns only get, say, 24 starts to keep them from blowing out their arms, that leaves 21 starts that have to come from somewhere (33+33+25+25+25=141, 162-141=21). If Mussina is still here, then I’ve got no problem giving those 21 to him.

    But, if we can get a useable (or even semi-useable) piece for him, we should do it, because at this point in his career, he’s no better than the AAAA guys on that list, and depending on how they fare when called up, there’s probably a 50/50 shot that he’s WORSE than some of our high-ceiling minor-league talent.

    I’d deal him to the Phillies and pay ALL of his $11M, to get a better prospect…

    • steve (different one)

      wow, this is beyond idiotic.

      Mussina had a run of 3 bad starts towards the end of the season. aside from those 3 starts, Moose had an ERA that was roughly league average over the course of the season.

      he has clearly declined, but putting him in the same boat as Chase Wright, Matt DeSalvo, and Kei Igawa is pure overreactionary BS.

    • Tom G.

      He had a pretty damn good 2006 & we saw flashes of the Mussina of the past in June and September last year as well. There is going to be a need for additional starters throughout this season; I think he begins the year in the rotation and looses his spot when he gets fatigued or injured. He will be used as a spot starter and long relief after the all-star break. Although he is in decline, Mussina is probably more valuable to the Yanks than anything they could expect to see in return from a trade.

      Mussina being in Philly in the future makes a lot of sense for that team; Jamie Moyer could take the young Mussina under his wing and teach him the true art of geriatric junk-ball pitching.

  • http://yankeesfuture.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

    Has everyone forgotten Horne, McCutch, and Marquez?

  • Lanny

    Maybe the Sox can put Dice K in the 7th inning while they are at it. Forget starting Santana. Set up Nathan.

    Who will Houston replace Lidge with? Roy Oswalt of course!

    If you would take the time to read a scouting report or check some film you would see that Chamberlain has ace level stuff.

    And you don’t find aces often.

  • LLOYD BANKS

    CB,

    Well-put CB. Hats off to you – ur argument was lucid and convincing. While I agree that “best-case scenario,” Joba would be a starter, it remains to be seen which role will suit him best.

    Kudos. Lets dance again sometime.

    • CB

      Loyd – Thanks. Always fun talking yankee baseball. It’s nice to have some talented young arms to disagree about!

  • jeff

    I think you’re overstating the innings caps. Since Hughes threw almost 150 two years ago, he’ll be able to go over that this year. His cap will probably be more like 180. And Kennedy should be able to throw 200 without a problem, assuming he’s good enough.

    It’ll be an issue, but not a major one, except for Joba.

  • stuart

    trade him for picks or a prospect or 2.. get rid of his contract. they will figure out there reserves incase of bad performance or injuries like other teams do thru the farm system.. save 11 mill ad get more young talent…..

    these inning numbers are not in concrete …

    • jeff

      Why do you care about getting rid of his contract? Will spending $11M less this year make the Yankees better? They’re not going to get anyone that’s going to help the team any time soon for a 39-year-old pitcher making a lot of money coming off of a 5.15 ERA season.

      If we learned anything last year, it’s that you need starting pitching depth. I’m no Mussina fan, but he’s good to have around while the kids get their feet wet.

      And by the way, you can’t trade draft picks in baseball.

    • steve (different one)

      “trade him for picks”??

      what sport do you think this is?

  • LLOYD BANKS

    Edited by RAB. Same reason as the other one. Name-calling doesn’t fly ’round these parts.

  • Mike D

    The innings cap on Hughes, Joba and Kennedy is the very reason why there is zero chance the Yankees plan to go with three rookies in their rotation, and I’m not even sure they will commit to going with two rookies for the full season. I expect a trade for a pitcher. I just hope it’s not Lowry, who hasn’t pitched much more than 150 innings himself the last two years and projects to a 5.00 ERA in the AL.

    Regarding Joba, the Yankees could follow the same course that the Twins used with Santana and Liriano. In 2002 and 2003, Santana was used as a starter and a reliever, allowing him to build up his innings but also use him for the full year, but without exceeding his innings. I think he did about 100 innings in ’02 and 150 in ’03, before moving up to 200+ innings since. They did the same with Liriano, starting him in the pen in ’06 before moving him into the rotation full time a couple months into the season, although he still got injured.

    The Yankees could have Joba start 2007 in the pen, perhaps making a few spot starts early on, and then move him into the rotation in June. That will keep him at the 150 innings limit. As for Hughes, since he pitched 146 innings in ’06, I would think the Yankees would be comfortable pushing him to 170 this year, since that’s what they were targetting for this past year. Just because he pitched less innings this year because of his injury doesn’t mean he loses an entire year.

    • chris fowler

      i don’t know how i feel about him not getting consistent work.

  • Bbig

    something slightly off topic, but I was just wondering about this. There has been a lot of talk about the compensation draft picks that teams get when their type A/B players elect free agency elsewhere. Combined with the fact that the Yankees pursue short term deals with middle relievers because of the fact they they are in general unreliable over long periods of time, I was wondering if it is smarter to pursue shorter term deals because of the potential draft picks a team gets every time they recycle though new free agents. (espescially given the return we got on tom gordon).

    Any thoughts?

  • stylez

    Wit whatever the yankees might get as a compensation pick which is most likely a B if at all, they can probably pick up from the phillies in a moderate prospect or two. I just dont believ Mussina is any better now then a Horne/ steven white/marquez and if the yankees can get something to fill those spots up when the aforementioned players graduate then fine! Better than just letting him walk next year when they surely wont resign him

  • http://yankeesfuture.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

    In retrospect, the best idea is to keep mussina and get a 1st rounder for him, because, if he were to be an FA this year, he would have been a Type A–same with Abreu and Pettitte (+ our own)

    think about it—3 1st rounders!!!

    • jeff

      I doubt Mussina will be Type A next year. That’s based on the player’s performance over their last two seasons. He’d have to pitch very well this year to be Type A. But you still bring up a good point. Even if he’s Type B, the sandwich round pick they’d get for letting him walk is probably more valuable than anything they’d get in a trade right now.

  • Lanny

    Edited by RAB. Sorry, we’re not dealing with people calling each other names. Take an insulting tone if you must, but cut out the name calling. It never got anyone anywhere.

  • LLOYD BANKS

    Sorry RAB boys, my bad. Lanny got under my skin a little and I lost my cool. This Yankee stuff is just wearing me down. I’ve never been more excited AND concerned at the same time, in my life. Im excited about the future of our young guys, while terrified that if Boston gets Santana they will be a dynasty for 5 yrs. In the end, we’re all Yankee fans and need to stick together. Despite the fact this is the most frutiy-laced post i have ever submitted in my life, i felt it was the right thing to do. Ga-Ga-Ga-Ga-Ga-G-UNIT!!!

  • Brian

    To up the ante on the fruity-lacedness and to abate the caustic tone of this thread, I have a question. Which headline do you think has bothered Phil Hughes the most this off-season: “Phil and Others for Santana?” or the above (scroll up on that one!…)?
    Crikey, and I thought the Gardner post the other day surprised the junk out of me!
    Oy, that “New York Media.”
    This thread is duly buried.

  • Art Vandelay

    Lloyd does bring up a very important, but seemingly overlooked point about the Yanks right now. Is the goal of the organization to win now, build for the future, or both? They have tied up a lot of money in aging position players to really be building for the future, but the young arms are probably a little bit away still from being a championship-caliber staff. However, by the time the Holy Trinity can carry the load, the position players will be in full-on decline, and there is much less organizational depth there to replace them than on the pitching side (AJax and Tabata being the only names that come to mind). Do they just go on a position player FA binge in the next few years as contracts come off the books and hope to have a championship caliber team in 2009 or so? Or do you really HAVE to make a deal for a Santana in order to win now while the Jeters, A-Rods, and Jorgies of the world still are stars. It’s a bit of an impasse of long-term strategy, and it’ll be interesting to see what direction they go.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      The young arms are one healthy season away from carrying the load, and the Yanks will still have Wang and Pettitte in 2009. It’s just getting through 2008 that could be a little dicey at times. But I’m not worried. After all, the Yanks finished just 2 games back of Boston this year after a terrible start, and they stand to be much better in April in 2008.

    • jeff

      When you have a $200M+ payroll and spend millions more on player development, your goal can be both winning now and building for the future. That seems to be exactly what the Yankees are doing right now.

  • Floyd

    I Agree,we do need Mussina this year…Not quite sure where exactly I read this (Don’t want to take credit for someone else’s idea)……Cash wants to limit the innings on the Trinity…..Go with a 6-man rotation throughout the year….Put Wang and Pettite 1-2…..Hughes next,Joba,IPK and Mussina….next turn, skip IPK keeping Mussina on schedule(not wanting to upset Mr. Crybaby)….next time through skip Joba and next time through skip Hughes all the while keeping Mussina in the 5 spot to keep him on schedule and limiting the amount of innings thrown by Our Blessed Trinity….anyone agree?????????

  • http://yankeesetc.blogspot.com/ Travis G.

    Kennedy pitched 170 ip combined this year. doesn’t that mean he’s set to pitch 200 in 08?st

    i agree that Hughes and Joba will be capped at 150. unfortunately, i do think they need Moose – as part of a 5.5 man rotation. however, if Horne, White, Marquez, whoever is tearing up AAA, maybe Moose becomes expendable (if he’s not cutting it).

    please no Lowry.

  • Bo

    I think there is pretty much zero chance the Yanks trade Moose. As we have all seen depth in starting pitching comes up every year. Why not have it? Like the Yankees need salary relief for a guy with one yr left?

  • brxbmrs

    I actually think Cashman has been a bit salary concerned the last few years.

    Also, I think the FO in general wants to see the team get younger and not pay a guy 13 mil to play at half strength – like Damon or miss most of the year with an injury – like Sui and Sheff.

    You can make the arguement that some injuries would happen to younger players as well, but there is a difference in the flexibility, coordination and recuperative powers between a guy in his 30′s and one in his 20′s.

    If the Yanks weren’t looking to get younger and cheaper – they would keep SUi and Moose – but it seems they’d like to move them in a reasonable deal.

  • brxbmrs

    I don’t think its idiotic.

    Moose had 8 quality starts out of 27 and posted his highest WHIP ever of 1.47.

    In many of those qs he gave up more than a hit per inning as well.

    If they can move Moose its a good idea – there’s every reason to think he will be the same old pitcher he was last year – Hammy injury or not.

  • brxbmrs

    I’m with CB – it is indisputable – Joba stopped the bleeding by being so dominant – if we didn’t take control that last 6 weeks or so, what happened to the Mets very likely would have happened to us – we go into an uncontrollable tailspin.

    Its not unlike the 96-00 Yanks – they were dominant once they had a lead after the 6th – other teams used to be afraid of the Yanks for that reason – JMO.

  • Bo

    Wants to make the team younger and more flexible and have a smaller payroll???

    No way!

    Come on. That’s every Gm’s goal besides putting a winning team on the field.

    And anyone that says that the Yanks will be better off with Joba going for 65 innings rather than 200 is out of their heads. You can find bullpen arms. You do not find #1 starters. You don’t take a pitcher with #1 stuff and WASTE him in the bullpen. It’s beyond stupid.

    • brxbmrs

      Bo,

      We disagree – it seems prety clear Cashman is trying to get younger by trading off pieces that the Yanks don’t think they really need and most likely won’t stay healthy.

      The fact that every GM wants to do that isn’t really true since the Giants have interest in Sui and guys like Moose still get millions.

      I didn’t say anything on Joba, but we may find out that he’s not as effective as a starter as he was as a setup guy\closer – and if Mo gets hurt….

      It does seem that Joba will get a real shot in the rotation – and that’s great.

  • jsbrendog

    hopefully when the Yanks lose Abreu and Moose next year they wiull both be type A FA and sign with teams who’s picks are unprotected. then you can try to find lightning in a bottle and draft some high ceiling talent at the lower picks because u have the money to overpay unproven youngsters when no one else will and you can use these picks to plan ahead for areas where your veterans are old and creaky. It might not work every time but for the yanks it has seemed to in the past. Their scouting has been very good and Gene Michael is top notch i feel in talent evaluation.

    As for Mussina, he did only have a couple of bad starts last year and even in those it was only due to a couple of bad innings. Why did these things happen to him> it is simple, one reason:

    JEFF WEAVER SYNDROME….if there’s one thing Yankee fans dread its seeing the starting pitcher give up a hit or a run or a HR and then slump his shoulders and look like he’s about to cry like Jeff Weaver did. I saw him do it so much it was enough for a lifetime. The fact that he still has a job anywhere is despicable. Mussina looked every bit like jeff weaver at times on the mound with his woe is me wah i gave up a hit and some runs schtick instead of keeping his composure like a true veteran. What the hell is wrong with a guy who says yeah im awful, my stuff jut isnt there, i suck. Are you kidding me? Come on and do yourself a favor moose and keep your composure, throw the ball and let what happens happen. You’re not going to get everyone out or throwq a shutout everytime mr weaver, ahem, sorry, mussina, so act like the consummate professional we all know you are and you won’t have these problems. HE can still get people out and he can still win games. Is he a 15-20 game winner in the top 3 of a rotation? no, but he can be a serviceable 4 or 5 starter and give you innings and at least keep you in the game. just please, for the love of god, don’t pull that deer in the headlights woe is me i gave up a run BS. If I see one more Jeff Weaver moment on the mnound i will throw my remote at the tv….

    Sidenote–it got to an almost comical point with weaver where as soon as u saw that shoulder slump and head droop as a yankee fan you smiled and went, oh no, here it comes, uh oh…jeffie’s done….let’s hope moose can avoid that. mAYBE Posada should put those deer alert things on his shinguards that emit a noise when deer run in front of a car so they dont freeze up…..would that be a violation?

  • brxbmrs

    How is 8 quality starts out of 27 only a couple of bad starts? How bout a WHIP of almost 1.50.

    • Jeterismyhomeboy

      Having gone through Mussina’s game log one by one, Moose had 13 quality starts (minimum 6 IP, 3 ER), and another 3 that gave the team a chance to win (5 IP, 1 ER on May 3; 5 IP, 2 ER on

  • Rob_in_CT

    If Mussina could be traded and net something valueable in return, great, sure. But given the innings cap issues that Hughes & Chamberlain will have, I figure kicking Moose to the curb subtracts ~150 innings (at, let’s say, about a 5 ERA) that will have to be made up by someone else. Karstens is not a ML pitcher. As an emergency starter, against a poor offensive club, ok. But you do not want that man taking regular turns in the rotation, because he will get hammered.

    Rasner is slightly better, I think, but by no means would I guarantee he can match, much less exceed, the performance of even a old & busted Mike Mussina. Chase Wright, Matt DeSalvo, etc… also likely to get bombed. One spot start here or there is one thing… counting on guys like this to provide 100+ innings is entirely another.

    Horne won’t be ready early on, and may not end up being ready at all. If he does do well, he may get called up sometime in the second half.

    And of course all this is without discussing possible (probable) injuries. Given all of that, I do think they need Mussina. If the Phils want to make a silly offer, ok. Otherwise, keep him.

  • jsbrendog

    just remember the last time cashman dealt with the phillies and basically stole bobby abreu. we could end up with an offer we cant refuse

    also, why not just hang onto mosse until the trade deadline cause by then people will be foaming at the mouth for anyone who can throw a baseball from the mound good or not. Any NL Central team will trade something worthwhile for Moose around mid-late july if they are around 500 (meaning basically in first place in their division)

    if he does well until then, great you get more, if he doesn;t, who cares, ship him off and get what you can cause if he does that poorly he wont be anything youll get draft picks over

  • Jeterismyhomeboy

    Sorry, I screwed up and pressed save.

    Okay, what I actually wanted to say:

    I went through Moose’s game log and looked at each individual game. He had 13 starts that qualify as quality by MLB’s standard (6 IP, 3 ER). He had another four games that would not qualify as quality, but gave the team a chance to win: 5 IP, 1 ER on May 3; 5 IP, 2 ER on June 24; 5.2 IP, 1 ER on July 25; and 5.2 IP, 0 ER on September 12. I have no idea where you’re getting the 8 quality start number, but it’s inaccurate. He had at least 17 starts where he gave the Yanks a chance to win and pitched long enough to earn a win himself (5 IP minimum to get a W in decision).

    Moose wasn’t excellent, but he wasn’t miserable either. He also has less of a hole to climb out of than Schill in ’05, which was a horrific year (at the same age, no less). He has to make adjustments to be a successful pitcher, but Moose is also very smart and understands pitching. To count him out is folly, IMO. I think he’ll come back better than what he showed in ’07. At the very least he provides depth and a great knowledge of pitching for Joba, Phil and Ian to learn from. At the best, he provides 150+ league average (or better) innings, helps keep the kids at their caps and useful for October (if they get there) and is a capable #5 in any rotation.