A Johan Santana post-mortem

With Yanks out of race, Santana lands in Queens
Conflicting reports of final demands emerge

Alright. Let’s put this baby to bed. Barring a complete collapse of the contract negotiations between the Twins and Mets, this is it for RAB and Johan Santana. It’s been some ride, eh?

Anyway, with the Yankees’ missing out on landing Santana, disappointment has enveloped many Yankee bloggers. But we’re immune; the Yankees have Saved the Big 3! They’ve also saved $150 million. But we’ll get there. What is everyone else saying?

Mike Plugh at Canyon of Heroes thinks Bill Smith should be fired. Yankees Chick tends to agree, and Travis G. at New York Yankees Etc. feels that Smith overplayed his hand. Moshe Mandel at The Bronx Block believes that Smith got fleeced. These bloggers are upset because the Twins seemingly turned down or dallied to the point of no return with better offers on the table.

Meanwhile, in the comments to our Santana trade post, not at 106 and climbing, a lot of fans are upset because they feel that the Yankees could have outbid the Twins for Santana without giving up Phil Hughes, the Holy Grail of the trade demands. I don’t think so. Let’s look, one last time, at what happened since November. It’s not as clear cut as we all think.

1. The Twins wanted to trade Johan Santana, but…

We all know that the Twins wanted to trade Johan Santana. With one year left on his contract and no extension forthcoming — despite payouts to Justin Morneau and Michael Cuddyer — the Twins had to capitalize on Santana by getting back something. For some reason, they felt the need to trade him now before Spring Training or the trade deadline when teams would be more desperate and more willing to give up blue chip pieces to get Santana. Why the Twins acted so soon, we won’t know.

2a. The Red Sox weren’t all that interested
2b. The Yankees weren’t all that interested

David and Aziz at Pride of the Yankees speculate that the Yankees and Red Sox were just using each other to drive up the price. Neither of the AL East superpowers were too keen to give up their hard-earned farm-system spoils for Johan Santana, they speculate. I’ve heard from a few sources that this was more likely the truth than we all initially thought.

First, Boston. According to what I’ve heard, the Red Sox were never serious about trading Jon Lester, Clay Bucholz or Jacoby Ellsbury in a package for Santana. In fact, the offers on the table from the Sox were far below what the media were reporting each day. But unlike the Yankees and Hank Steinbrenner, the Red Sox kept a tight lip on the procedures.

Meanwhile, the Yankees laid their cards on the table but did so in a way to call the Twins’ bluff. The Good Doctor, writing on my post, explains this position:

Has it occured to anybody that neither the Yankees or the Red Sox really wanted Santana? I mean, at least at the price they would have to pay to get him. Did it occur that these two VERY savvy franchises ended up playing the Twins like a fiddle? Let’s face it, clearly the Red Sox and the Yankees both had the players to make the deal happen if they wanted to make it happen. Either team could have beaten the Mets offer without breaking a sweat if they really wanted to, but they didn’t.

The offers that they each reportedly made were disingenuous. First, Hank makes a tremendous offer (Hughes, Melky, etc.), but gives a ridiculous deadline by which the Twins have to accept it. He knew they wouldn’t/couldn’t accept the deadline. Meanwhile, it keeps the BoSox in the hunt, so they talk about Lester and Ellsbury, but that offer too is disingenuous. And in the end, they were reported to have taken the best parts of their reported offers off the table.

The Yankees only wanted to keep Santana out of Boston and the Red Sox wanted to make sure he didn’t go to the Bronx and the only way either one was actually going to pull the trigger on the deal was if the other was really, truly, honestly about to make a real deal for Santana. Neither team wanted him at the price they’d have to pay.

And why didn’t either of those teams want Santana? Because, as we’ve said and The Good Doctor put it, “Both would have given up big time MLB ready, INEXPENSIVE, young players to land Santana, then turn around and pay him $20 – 25 mil a year.” These two teams are not about to add another $25 million a year for seven years. It didn’t work with Kevin Brown or Mike Hampton, and it’s not working out for Barry Zito. Seven-year contracts for pitchers are not sound investments, and there’s no way that Santana’s performance over the course of the contract would have justified the lost pieces and money.

Meanwhile, it seems as though blustery Hank really did know what he was doing after all. Funny how that happens.

3. Bill Smith did not overplay his hand

Smith, an inexperienced GM but a veteran baseball guy with a strong background in talent evaluation, knew what he could get and when. If he ever really thought he could do better than what he got, he would have pulled the trigger sooner. The breaking point came today when Johan Santana basically asked for a resolution. I’m sure the Red Sox and Yankees both said to Smith that their offers would not improve in March or in July.

4. The Twins were not too keen on moving Santana to another AL team

As Casper points out in the comments to this post, it’s quite likely that the Twins did not want to see Santana in the AL. The Twins have a good a shot as any to rebuild into a playoff team before the end of Santana’s eventual contract extension. Why handicap your team by setting up another with your erstwhile ace? Whether or not this consideration led to a sound baseball move is open for debate.

5. Evaluating this non-move won’t happen overnight

For the Yankees to tell whether or not they “lost” out on this non-trade, we’ll have to wait, oh, about six or seven years. Right now, Johan Santana is probably the de facto front runner from NL Cy Young. He’s switching leagues and landing in another pitcher’s park. He’ll get to face the Nationals and Marlins more than a few times as well as the Number 9 slot in the NL batting orders. He’s got it made, and the Mets probably just punched their ticket to at least the NLCS.

Meanwhile, Johan Santana in 2008 will be better than Phil Hughes, barring injury or some sort of miracle. But that’s just year one. When Santana’s making $20 million at the age of 34, and Hughes is outpitching him for less money, we’ll see who’s come out ahead.

Yankee fans are fickle, and the temptation now is to say that the Yanks lost out big. But for once, we’ll have to do what the Yankees did and remain patient with the young kids. They’ll deliver.

Sixteen days until pitchers and catchers…

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With Yanks out of race, Santana lands in Queens
Conflicting reports of final demands emerge
  • Mrs. Peterson-Kekich

    From a Yankee fan in the Bay Area:

    I just spent two hours driving my son home from a basketball game thanks to an overturned tanker.

    And yet I’m in a great mood — looking forward to many years of cheering for Phil; for Joba; for IPK (and Melky too).

  • Casper

    One more possibility – Maybe the Twins never intended to send Santana to another AL club, or at the very least seriously discounted offers from AL clubs. It seems like many fans have assumed that since Smith is new to the GM position, that he’s a rube. Perhaps the guy decided, or he and Ryan and the other management/ownership people there decided together, that they (i) had to trade Santana and (ii) had to trade him to an NL club.

    I don’t necessarily agree that those choices are optimal for the Twins, but it’s one way to rationalize why the Mets’ offer may be seen by Minnesota’s management as the best offer. These people didn’t accept the Mets offer because they think they’re morons and they’re getting fleeced, they clearly must believe that they got the best return for Santana that they could get… within whatever parameters they are comfortable with.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Casper: That’s a very good point. It was on my mind earlier tonight as well. I’ll add that right now.

      • Casper

        Thanks… Now that I’m thinking about it… If you continue down that road, another possibility arises that might cast Smith/MN in a bad light (which wasn’t my intention). Starting with the assumption that MN wanted to send him to the NL, per above… It would follow that they got the NY/Boston powers involved in order to drum up the price. If that was the intention, the choice might have backfired as the looming presence of the Yanks and Sox in the negotiations may have scared off certain other possible suitors and may have left the Mets standing as the NL team with the best offer.

      • eric from morrisania

        I feel so snubbed! Casper gets the props in the main post about the “trade him to the NL theory”, even though I said it in the initial trade recap post almost seven hours earlier…

        What a jip. I DEMAND SATISFACTION!

  • Rich

    I think Smith misread the dynamics of the market, and as a result, misread the proper time to accept the best offer he was going to get.

    In other words, the Yankees and Sox never got into the bidding war that he had hoped. Instead, their initial offers were their best offers.

    When he finally realized that, their best offers were no longer on the table.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      If those offers were ever seriously on the table in the first place.

      • Rich

        I guess we can’t be sure, but it seems pretty clear that Hughes was on the table. IIRC, they told his agent that.

  • YankCrank20

    i agree with everything said with exception to the bill smith point. i can be wrong, and if i am, somebody please correct me with valid information.

    -twins try to extend santana, he refuses
    -yankees multiple offers eventually get to hughes and melky
    -red sox offers get to two offers that either include jon lester or jacoby ellsbury
    -bill smith wants more players, holds out in the usual attempt to have the yanks and sox play against each other to drive the price up…which didn’t work
    -yanks and sox eventually pull out of race
    -twins try to extend santana again, he refuses and tells twins to make deal quickly with what they can
    -twins are stuck with only offer on the table which is the mets 4 prospects that don’t even come close to equaling yanks or sox original offers

    how is this not overplaying the hand? i think the sox were never genuinely interested and just wanted to keep him out of the bronx, cashman also didn’t want santana in boston but at some point i’m sure cashman was serious about acquiring santana until the price got ridiculously high (hughes). i think that bill smith thought time was on his side, the longer he waited the better chance the offers would go up and that clearly didn’t happen. bill isn’t an idiot, he earned his job on talent evaluation but he could have done better with this deal. time will tell

  • dan

    I’ve already had people say to me, “you will wish the Yankees had Johan in July, when Hughes has a 4.80 ERA and Santana is 14-3.” But I think we all realize that this trade is not about this season. Any Yankee hater who compares Johan to Hughes this season won’t be saying anything we didn’t already know.

    Now how funny would it be if Santana fails the physical because of a bad elbow?

  • http://www.mvn.com/mlb-yankees Moshe Mandel

    I basically concur with everything YankCrank20 said above me. I disagree with you about two of the points- the Yankees not being interested and Bill Smith not overplaying his hand. I believe the Yankees were interested, and did have Hughes on the table at one point trying to make a deal. Smith pushed for more, and ended up losing his opportunity to bring back an elite talent. I think your fourth point is the most relevant of the entire piece. The Twins were probably unwilling to send Johan to an AL contender, and therefore requested superior packages from the Yanks and Sox. I think this is a poor move by Smith. As a GM, he has to take the best offer, regardless of the team it comes from. They took a package that has only one player with star potential (Guerra), and he is far away from the majors. They are in a division with 2 teams that will be strong for the forseeable future. It does not seem like they made this move to contend soon, so why bother keeping Johan from the AL.?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      To be clear, Hughes was on the table at one point. But he was on the table when Hank gave the Twins their ultimatum at the Winter Meetings. As far as we know, Hughes has a not been a part of any Yankee package since then. Hank was sure to make that known.

      • http://www.mvn.com/mlb-yankees Moshe Mandel

        I think that anytime a prospect of Hughes’ caliber is on the table at any point, it is hard to claim that the Yankees weren’t all that interested. What if the Twins accept that offer? I think they were fully interested and involved, Smith pushed too hard, and the Yankees pulled their offer.

    • eric from morrisania

      But, that’s oversimplification. Why, exactly, do you have to “take the best offer, regardless of the team it comes from”? What if the team it comes from is a critical factor as to the quality of the offer?

      The goal of the GM is not to grab headlines by making trades that the blogosphere applauds, it’s to build a team that can win the World Series. In order to do that, you want to accomplish two things: 1) acquire talented players that can make your team more likely to win games, and 2) prevent other teams from acquiring talented players that would make their team more likely to win games. Bill Smith wants to get value for Johan Santana, so that the Twins can compete for the title. He did that, and he did that in a way that doesn’t strengthen one of his main competitors; it strengthens an ancillary competitor – and moreover, strengthens an ancillary competitor who wasn’t that strong in the first place…

      Even if you assume that Mulvey, Humber, Guerra, and Gomez collectively do not eventually become a better ML foursome than Hughes, Cabrera, Marquez and Hilligoss (or whichever other Yankee or Red Sox offer you’d like to use), the evaluation of the extra number of games the Twins wouldn’t be winning over those prospective future seasons by having player Group A instead of Group B has to be counterbalanced by evaluating the benefit (to the Twins) of the extra number of games the Red Sox or Yankees similarly wouldn’t be winning by not having Santana on their rosters. Because no matter how you slice it, Red Sox and Yankee wins are more damaging to Twins title prospects than Mets wins are.

  • http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=56352514 Jamal G

    That point you made about Smith NOT overpaying his hand really stuck to me. I never really looked at it from that point of view, I was always under the impression (as I am sure most were) that the media and bloggers were fairly accurate in their reports of the packages on the table for Johan Santana. The Red Sox offering seperate packages that included players Jon Lester, Jacoby Ellsbury, Coco Crisp, Jed Lowrie, and the Masterson kid. Then onto the Yankees who reportedly put up players Hughes, Cabrera, Horne, Marques, Jackson, Tabata, and Hilligross.

    The point you made makes alot more sense in saying that those reported deals were off seeing as how Smith in no right mind could have seriously passed up a combo of those players from the the Yankees and Red Sox then turn around and accept this offer from the Mets. There was no way he would have done that especially with former Twins GM Ryan still in the picture somewhat.

  • Rich

    If Klapisch is right, my above post is correct that Smtith misread the proper time to accept the best offer :

    This was late Monday night, about 12 hours before the Mets would pounce upon their most dramatic trade in recent history. Twins’ general manager Bill Smith, in a panic to move Johan Santana, called the Yankees and admitted surrender: Phil Hughes was no longer a prerequisite, he said. Instead, the Twins asked for Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera and a top prospect. Would the Yankees still be interested, Smith wondered?

    The Yankees considered the idea, but only briefly and not seriously. Their passion for Santana started waning as far back as December, when Andy Pettitte announced he was returning to the Bronx. The Yankees’ internal straw vote was unanimous: The Twins had waited too long. On Tuesday Yankees’ GM Brian Cashman told Smith he was passing on the deal, prompting the Twins to call the Red Sox. Equally devastating news awaited. Both Jacoby Ellsbury and Jon Lester were unavailable.

    The Red Sox, in lock step with the Yankees, had essentially backed out, too.

    • JRVJ

      None of us know the real financial situation of the Yankees, who surely have a bunch of financial covenants to comply with due to the building of new Yankee Stadium.

      Having said that, the Yankees do have $46.5MM of little-to-no production coming off the books next year.

      Unless the Yankees simply couldn’t take Santana’s salary on for 2008 (which is strange, after they added an effective $18MM worth of Clemens in 2007), you have to wonder about what the Yankees will do (or not do) with their off-the-books $46.5MM in 2008-2009 (and arguably, the Yankees could have much more coming off the books, but it will depend on whether Pettitte and/or Abreu stay with the Yankees for 2009).

      I’ve assumed that the Yankees would go after one of Santana, Sabathia or Teixeira. Now it’s just Sabathia or Teixeira, and maybe the Yankees will end up with neither….

      Strange.

      • steve (different one)

        read this:

        According to sources familiar with the entire negotiations, after the Red Sox removed Lester, the Twins called the Yankees back and proposed a scenario in which Hughes would not have to be part of the deal. Instead, they asked for Chien-Ming Wang and Ian Kennedy. The Yankees flatly rejected that, leaving the Mets as the Twins’ only alternative.

        http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....tml?page=1

        so before we bring out the pitchforks and torches, remember, none of us know what really happened.

        i see no reason to believe Klapish over this report, or vice versa.

        • JRVJ

          Steve,

          Good point.

          Obviously one can only comment on what has been disclosed, and I would like to think that I was neither rude nor unreasonable in my post.

          Having said that, if Klapisch is right, then I stand by my post.

          If Madden/Daily News is right, then the Twins are bigger fools than anyone thought them to be, and it makes all the sense in the world for the Yanks to have slammed the door on their faces.

    • TurnTwo

      IF this is true, and IF the Twins came back to the Yankees with Hughes no longer in the equation, and Cashman STILL didnt pull the trigger, i have no pity for him if he gets fired after the season.

      • Steve S

        Completely agreed. Thats a disaster if thats the case. And money shouldn’t have been an issue. If he could have done it for Kennedy then this was a mistake.

        • steve (different one)

          repeated for emphasis.

          According to sources familiar with the entire negotiations, after the Red Sox removed Lester, the Twins called the Yankees back and proposed a scenario in which Hughes would not have to be part of the deal. Instead, they asked for Chien-Ming Wang and Ian Kennedy. The Yankees flatly rejected that, leaving the Mets as the Twins’ only alternative.

          • TurnTwo

            agreed, its all speculation… that is why i prefaced my statements with the big ‘IF.’

            to me, Hughes or IPK were expendable, but never both… the problem with that is centered around taking out 2 arms out of the 2008 rotation, and only replacing them with one arm, however good he was projected to be.

          • Steve S

            I agree it is speculation. But whats more of a reality. The Twins have been asking for Hughes and Kennedy and they somehow think they are bargaining when they drop Hughes out and include Wang??? That doesnt make much sense. But then again Bill Smith giving him away for that package doesnt make much sense. Either way, Im happy that Hughes is staying. Im just saying I think it is a bad decision for Cashman if what Klapisch says is true. Because I think we all acknowledge that the rotation with Santana Hughes and Joba would be great for at least the next three years.

            • steve (different one)

              maybe they were dropping Melky out in that scenario.

              maybe the Yankees balked at trading Melky because it is now too late to sign a Mike Cameron or whatever

              we really don’t know.

  • Babe’s Ghost

    Clearly this is a victory for the Yankees. Not an absolute victory like snatching Santana in FA, but a victory nonetheless. Certainly it will make interleague play more exciting. (Note that Jeter, Cano and Matsui all hit Santana pretty well.)

    However, if Klapisch is correct that we could have made a deal without including Hughes then I think we made a mistake. I’m a fan of el Presidente, but adding Santana probably would have reduced our total risk, not to mention made it a whole lot easier to limit wear and tear on the bullpen and our young starting pitchers. With all the contracts coming off the books next year, I have trouble believing money would be the issue. Especially considering how much we needed a front of the rotation ace last year. (signing Tex is not a good excuse, we’re going to need 1B for Jeter in a couple years.)

    If I were Johan I would rape Minaya for $185/7, the Mets fans are so excited and the trade is so favorable to the Mets, that letting him slip away would be Kazmir-heartbreaking.

    That said, I’m looking forward to spring training and watching the big three develop.

  • LiveFromNewYork

    Bill Smith overplayed his hand. There is no reason why he wouldn’t have pulled the trigger on the Yankees or Red Sox deal. We all knew what that was. To even begin to say he didn’t is wrong. And Twinkie fans are not happy. They all would have preferred Hughes or Lester to the subprime prospects they got.

  • mustang

    I don’t agree with the ship Santana to NL idea at all. Because if that’s what the Twins wanted to do they could gotten other NL teams in on it i.e. the Dodgers who have a lot more to give. This was Smith over playing his hand and trying to get more Red Sox and Yanks then anyone else. I just hope that Mr Cashman understand that he not only placing his future as Yanks GM, but the 2008 season in the hands of 3 kids who have picthed less then 200 innings. I’m all for the youth movement, but you shouldnt place all your eggs in one basket. I’m a Yankees fan so I hope this works out, but I wouldn’t of taken the risk.

  • Bo

    Smith should be fired for this. He would have been better off holding onto him and dealing with the circus daily about will he go.

    On the bright side the RAB Save the 3 shirts are now priceless.

  • usty

    From the Bergen Record:

    “The Twins called the Yankees and admitted surrender: Phil Hughes was no longer a prerequisite…Instead, the Twins asked for Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera and a top prospect. Would the Yankees still be interested, Smith wondered? The Yankees considered the idea, but only briefly and not seriously…The Twins had waited too long…The Red Sox, in lock step with the Yankees, had essentially backed out, too…That left the Mets, who after hearing from Smith didn’t allow themselves to be bluffed.””

    • usty

      oops…someone already beat me to it.

  • http://www.globestompers.com Julie

    Congrats guys, you saved the big three! I am sure this has already been said, but having Santana land in Queens is the best possible scenario. I am looking forward to many years of watching Phil Hughes in pinstripes.

  • CB

    I’m happy Hughes is staying but I don’t consider this a win for the yankees. At best its a neutral outcome and is still something of a loss.

    Santana will never hit the market now. This has dragged on so long I think its easy to forget how great he is. That the yankees didn’t acquire him isn’t a win in my opinion.

    Boston is the big winner in this after the Mets. This is by far the best outcome for them.

    According to the Daily News when the Yankees pulled Hughes Minnesota called back and asked for Wang and Kennedy.

    There are so many leaks in this story and rumors its difficult to make sense of any of them.

    Wang and Kennedy because they won’t part with Phil?

    “According to sources familiar with the entire negotiations, after the Red Sox removed Lester, the Twins called the Yankees back and proposed a scenario in which Hughes would not have to be part of the deal. Instead, they asked for Chien-Ming Wang and Ian Kennedy. The Yankees flatly rejected that, leaving the Mets as the Twins’ only alternative.”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/spo.....tml?page=1

  • Cam

    Great post. I think you guys nailed it. It got to the point for me that it just seemed like neither the Yanks or Sox wanted to do anything. As you said, if they wanted to, they could have. I think these people (i.e. Hank) are a little smarter than we may think (sometimes anyway). It was the classic back and forth and Hank knew he had the largest media outlet in the country to report to. Good for the Mets, better for the Yanks. Even if the kids don’t work out like everyone is hoping, it will still be fun to root for a kid trying to make it than an overpaid player who has no former ties to the team.

    • TurnTwo

      i dont think its a matter of never having interest, but moreso they were interested, but not at the price of both prospects AND players.

      i think if Cashman couldve gotten the Twins to bite on a deal with a ‘quantity’ deal, excluding more players from the 2008 roster and instead included more low-A and double-A high-ceiling guys, he would have, or IMO, should have made the deal… but it seemingly never got to that point in the negotiations.

  • daneptizl

    What do you guys think would be the Yankee equivalent to this trade? I was thinking melky, mccallister, marquez, horne.

    • daneptizl

      I think that trade proposal is better than the Mets’.

    • KAnst

      Its hard to say since these are some weird pitchers.

      Mulvey is similar to Horne
      Carlos Gomez isnt really like anyone we have but hes most similar to Austin Jackson or Jose Tabata
      Guerra is another weird prospect, so lets say for him Dellin Betances
      For Phil Humber lets say Marquez.

      My judgement a similar package would have been Horne, Betances, Marquez, and AJax.

      These prospects are a lot better then some people are giving them credit for. Smith here went for ceiling over probability. Now none of them are in Hughes class, but neither was anyone the Sox offered

      • daneptizl

        Well, I checked their minor league stats and considered their potentials. I would take the other proposed players.

  • Lou

    I can’t wait to watch Hughes grow in a Yankee uniform. that being said, there will not be 1 year in the next 7 when he outpitches Santana in a meaningful way.

  • KAnst

    Does it count if Hughes is healthy while Santana blows out his elbow? Thats the only way I see the stats of Hughes being better. They could be close in value but Hughes is pitching in the AL East and Santana is pitching in the NL in a pitchers park

    • Lou

      Even adjusting for league and park, i seriously doubt Hughes matches Santana. This is not a knock on Hughes

  • nick blasioli

    patience is not one of my virtues…i just dont understand why the yankees have not improved their team from last year…it just does not make sense to me…every year they brought in someone to help make a change..but not this year…its going to be a long hot summer……

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

      So you would have preferred they made some impulsive move rather than stick with the strategy they’ve been working on for years?

      I would so totally kill you in a game of chess.

      • Lou

        trading for the best pitcher in baseball is not impulsive. the only angle this would have made little sense (IMO) for the Yanks is the money side. And frankly, I don’t necessarily believe that it would hinder them all too much.

  • Casper

    The dynamics/parameters of this entire “negotiating cycle” or whatever you want to call it are so vast and far-reaching, it’s impossible to piece together what “really” happened here. (Numerous teams involved, nobody knows what was offered/when, media rumors, etc.) One thing is bugging me though… How does Terry Ryan escape blame for this mess? Personally, I think the biggest miscalculation on MN’s part was made in the ’06-’07 offseason and even during the ’07 season – If you’re going to eventually trade Santana (in lieu of either extending him or holding onto him and getting draft picks), you HAVE to trade him with more than one season left under his current contract. All Minnesota did by waiting until the ’07-’08 offseason was weaken their bargaining position and, thus, the return they would receive in exchange for Santana. I think a case could be made that Terry Ryan misread the market and didn’t have the foresight to understand that he was digging himself and his organization a hole by holding onto Santana until such a late point in his contract-term.

  • JT Bk

    http://www.northjersey.com/spo.....ntana.html

    Basically says a deal of Kennedy, Melky, and Other TOP prospect (Tabata/Jackson?) would have gotten the deal done.

    I still say pass. I rather cut off my nose to spite my face than to give our guys to the Twins at this point.

    P.s. I checked out some twins blogs and they really seem to hate the Yankees…Feels good to be hated.

  • Reef

    im a big fan of you guys here at river ave., but come on… we save 150 mil?? are you guys serious… the only people that save in all of this are the Steinbrenners… i mean, we, the fans, are already paying out the ass for tickets. With Al Yankeezera (YES) revenue as well as the new stadium, 150 mil is chump change… the fact that we refused to even offer a package for the best pitcher in the game, who also happens to be a lefty, who also happens to be in his prime; is sheer arrogance. i believe in the big three, but once pettitte is gone what leftys do we have in the farm system to even speak of?? its a sad day when the mets steal the best pitcher in the league and all we can salvage is the fact that “we” saved money.

  • Bo

    Kennedy is better than anyone in the Mets offer. Tabata is better than anyone in the Mets offer. melky is bar far better than anyone in the Mets offer.

    It’s not even a comparison.

    Just because they are 4 of the Mets top 10 prospects according to BA doesnt mean they are in the same league as the Yanks prospects.

    • Lou

      i have heard many scouts don’t like Kennedy. Well, at least they think he is performing above his skills level

    • steve (different one)

      just because we feel that Kennedy is better than anyone in the Twins’ offer, doesn’t mean the Twins feel that way.

      i would guess the Twins rate Gomez a lot higher than we are.

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  • http://www.mvn.com/mlb-rays Eric SanInocencio

    Bill Smith is only partially to blame. The main culpability lies with billionaire owner Carl Pohlad, who claims small market status even though according to Forbes he is worth 2.8 billion. I wrote an article breaking down why the problems start at the top when it comes to the Twins.

    http://www.mvn.com/mlb-rays

  • http://blog.nj.com/yankees aziz

    Ben, great write-up, and thanks for the link!

    best,
    aziz – pride of the yankees