He said. He said.

Super Tuesday
Rudy Giuiliani, Red Sox fan, immortalized in cards

“It was great to be able to tell them what I’ve been saying all along, that I’ve never used steroids or growth hormone. And I look forward to being here I guess in this room next week. So, thank you very much. Y’all have a good day,” Roger Clemens said after five hours of questions (and probably as many autograph requests). I’m sure Brian McNamee will say the opposite, and Congress will be none the wiser. Taxpayer time and money well spent.

Super Tuesday
Rudy Giuiliani, Red Sox fan, immortalized in cards
  • steve (different one)

    if Clemens is caught lying in his testimony today, he could go to jail, right?

    and he could have taken the 5th, right?

    don’t get me wrong, i am still skeptical, but this move today doesn’t strike me as something someone would do if they were lying.

    of course, i have no idea. it wouldn’t be the first time someone lied under oath, but it just seems like before today, the consequences were a lot different.

    it’s a lot different to say “if i am caught lying, i will never make the Hall of Fame” vs. “if i am caught, i am going to jail”

    who knows. not me.

    • Whitey14

      This may shock you Steve, but I agree with you. Knowing the consequences as I’m sure he does, it doesn’t seem likely that he would lie to Congress when h could have just pleaded the fifth.

  • huuz

    i’m curious to hear if anybody can make a convincing argument for why our gov. leaders are spending their time looking into this…?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      They’ll tell you it’s for the integrity of the game, the sport’s antitrust exemption, etc. I don’t buy it, and as Murray Chass wrote today, politicians and officials seem to care more than fans.

    • Whitey14

      I’m not sure I agree with the government spending so much time on this either, but I’m guessing it’s because we do care so much as fans that we opine on blogs and website with our opinions and because baseball and football combined for 14 billion dollars in revenues this year. For some people, unfortunately, it’s all they have, so I guess the government feels they should try to protect it. Personally, feeding the hungry, making oil available to those that cannot afford it, and cleaning up the government itself seem like much more worthwhile pursuits. I did read somewhere that Arlen Spector feels because the NFL has an Antitrust Exemption they need to answer for the spygate investigation methods.

  • Realist

    If he is guilty and lied than he is guilty of perjury , much like the Bond’s situation. I really hope the truth does come out as this is a huge waste of tax payer money and a witch hunt on one team…being the Yankees.

    Btw, White….I don’t work at a car wash , as you implied in the now closed thread , but if I did I wouldn’t be ashamed. So I guess you think you are better than someone that does though , or else you wouldn’t have been so smug in saying so? I am a business owner , who is a Yankee fan and one that doesn’t disrespect others for what they do only what they don’t.

    • Whitey14

      Actually, I too own a business and my wife co-owns a business of her own. I do feel I’m better than someone who has chosen to work in a car wash, because I worked my way through high school and college and put my business degree to good use. You may hate me, which is fine, but I contribute to society, support worthwhile charities and work late hours so I can spend the mornings with my 16 month old daughter. And yes, bless her little heart, she is a Red Sox fan. Hopefully she will grow up and be able to avoid the types of arguments and conflicts with yankee fans that I find myself unable to. I guess that’s what passion can lead to. At any rate, how about you and I just end this worthless little battle of words. It isn’t getting either one of us anywhere and it’s actually getting quite old.

      The only point I wanted to make was that if ny fans think that the giants beating the pats matters to fans in NE as much as the Red Sox being currently better than the yanks, they were wrong.

      • Realist

        That wasn’t your point , you called us classless…..go back and read.

        • Whitey14

          Maybe you can quote it for me and make it easy on both of us since you seem so sure of yourself.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

            Give it a rest, folks. We closed the other thread because we’re sick of this bickering. Please just stop.

  • LiveFromNewYork

    If Roger is lying he’s going to jail and no HoF for him but I am positive that not only did his lawyer tell him that but had to have reminded him of Bonds’ situation. Somehow either Roger is telling the truth or he’s completely psychotic.

  • Realist

    LFNN , you may be on to something there????? He does have a certain evil stare….who knows? ;-)

  • Old Ranger

    Roger isn’t dumb enough to lie to congress, in fact if he told the truth(and we all hope he did) we still don’t know what he told them. He could have said “Yup I did it so what?” Or; “No I didn’t use, now prove me wrong?”
    Of course better would be; “Kiss my ever loven A$$$! You dumb old retards, you need six people sitting behind you telling you what to say, because your brains are fried”!
    I guess I just can’t see him lying, that would be just to stupid. Not that I was a great fan of his, but I always knew he would give his best and fight to the end. 27/08

    • steve (different one)

      from Abraham’s blog:

      Clemens emerged from a five and a half hour deposition with the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee this afternoon and again issued a strong denial.

      “It was great to be able to tell them what I’ve been saying all along – that I’ve never used steroids or growth hormone,” he said.

      so he definitely denied using steroids under oath.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.


        Why cite PeteAbe? I said in this exact post. Give us some credit, man!

        • steve (different one)

          apparently i have the attention span of a gnat and i can’t remember what was said from the top of the thread to the bottom.


          sorry guys.

  • Realist

    Hey Old Ranger …..good to see ya buddy!

    You are correct in saying that we don’t even know what was said , so it is all assumptions til then? I just wish this “witch hunt” would go away or at least expanded to including on other teams as well….

    • Old Ranger

      Realist Hi…
      I can only agree wholehartedly to your post. Good going! 27/08

  • Old Goat

    This whole thing would have been serving baseball much better had Mitchell not included names and allowed those accused to retain their right of due process.

    Had instances been sited without names attached, then the focus of the report wouldn’t be on players who get to be tared and feathered by the media, the focus would be on the recommended changes to improve testing and ensuring that going forward PED use would become rare.

    Until and unless the majority of players who used PEDs are all outed, there will be acrimony with this. Mitchell abused his position, he knowingly removed the right of those named to have due process. He also aided his team by having the focus be mainly on his team’s greatest rival. I have yet to hear anyone from the media specifically ask Mitchell why he could not get his own organization to cooperate with his investigation. With his position in that organization, he should have been able to have access to anyone he wanted to talk to.

    Congress will protect its own though. They are the “old boys” club, so instead, they are now focused on getting Clemens in an effort to sweep aside the real issue of the Mitchell report. If Congress was truly interested in clearing up this mess, even though I question their right to do this – as they are the legislative branch of government, not the justice – then why are only a select few being brought to testify rather than every single name in the report.

    The government getting into this is more to act as an aid to Mitchell and his reputation, for if Clemens comes out looking innocent, then Mitchell looks bad. This is abuse of power that we entrust in our elected officials.

  • Whitey14

    The problem was that Mitchell didn’t have subpoena rights. EVERY major league player was asked for an interview and I believe all but Giambi, under obvious pressure, declined. It wasn’t that he didn’t try to talk to the Red Sox players, they just exercised their right of refusal like everybody else. Remember, the players implicated in the report didn’t run to Mitchell to confess. They were turned in by players who had been busted, or clubhouse personnel that had been busted. They should have granted him subpoena rights and then he could have talked to every player he wanted to. If that had been the case and he hadn’t asked to speak to any of the World Champions, then I think you’d have a case for the bias that most yankees fans are claiming. But as it is, the mets and yanks would naturally have more players implicated because it’s their former clubhouse employees trying to save their own butts by ratting out the players they worked with.

  • Jeff

    Whitey – Sure grant him his supena rights and make us all puke cause we could give a damn less. Enough said about that because the game of baseball is much more worthwile a story to comment on…
    Your daughter must be a genius at 18 months to be a BoSox fan… must take after her father.
    Giants are no matter… but was does matter is 1-9 we’re better than the Sox and 1-5 we will match.

    • Whitey14

      Very classy Jeff to insult a man’s 16 month old daughter. I’m guessing she’s already smarter than you. I know she has more class.

      If you could all give a damn less about the Mitchell Report you’d stop talking about it. Instead you’re all on the edge of your seats looking for any and all news about it.

      We’ll see about the Sox/yanks rivalry this season. I can gaurantee you, that unlike yourself, I’ll be here win or lose to comment without bias. If the Sox deserve to be crapped upon, I’ll do it. And if the yankees turn out to be better than the sox I’ll admit it. I don’t have any problem being honest. We’ll see what you’re made of. If the yanks fall ten games back this season I’m sure it will be because the Red Sox are cheating right?

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

        That you are claiming you will “comment without bias” is beyond laughable.

        • Whitey14

          I’ll comment honestly which is more than most of your posters can say. How many of your posters came down hard on pettitte after he was outed as an HGH user? Not many as I recall. They tried to shift it around to pettitte coming clean when in reality he got busted plain and simple and decided to try and be honorable after the fact. In my book it wasn’t honorable it was damage control. Agree or disagree? Let’s see if you can be honest over and above your bias. We’re all biased. I get that. It’s just reality. But when the situation calls for it, can you be honest? Do you have principles all the time, or only when they’re convenient. I’m very curious. Or will you just sweep my post away as you’ve done in the past, including tonight.

          • dan

            There is a difference between shop-lifting and murder. Andy shop-lifted, we won’t convict him of murder.

  • Old Ranger

    Fighting over some words uttered by ONE person with nothing to substanciate what is true or false?
    Andy came clean, this is more than almost anyone else did. Nobody is saying it wasn’t a bad deal, or wrong of him. It’s just, we don’t hang people for taking HGH…NOT a STEROIDS!
    Trying HGH is like some of you guys trying POT, you didn’t like it , so you quit. As did he. Whatever his reasons for trying HGH; whatever his reason for coming clean who knows. The only proof was the word of one man, he could have just said “I didn’t do it”. Who do you think people would believe?

    No apologies for Andy, He did wrong, we all agree, so get over it .

    • Whitey14

      Old Ranger and Dan, your words make perfect sense. But here’s my point: would you say the same things if we were talking about David Ortiz? If you would, I applaud you for being able to speak honestly and avoid your bias. If Ortiz (or any other Red Sock) is ever busted for doing roids, HGH, or any other PED that comes along I’ll be the first, and maybe the only, Red Sox fan to post here and admonish him and agree that he should be punished within the MLB drug policy rules. Now that Pettitte has admitted to his brief use of HGH, do you feel he should he receive punishment?

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

        Why should David Ortiz be punished if he used HGH before MLB banned them? Why should Andy Pettitte? You can punish someone for breaking rules that weren’t in place when they “broke” them.

        • Whitey14

          Thanks for wiping out my initial repsonse Ben. You could have just responded with your thoughts though. Isn’t that was this comment forum is for? I don’t believe I said anything offensive, but apparently you disagreed.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

            We haven’t killed anything in this thread. If a comment isn’t there, something else happened. What did you say and when? I’ll look into it.

            • Whitey14

              My apologies for the mistake. I had replied back to your response about punishing pettitte and mentioned that the drugs were illegal whether specifically mentioned in MLB’s drug policy or not. Again, I apologize for the mistake and for making what is apparently a wrongful accusation.

    • Whitey14

      The only proof was the word of one man, he could have just said “I didn’t do it”. Who do you think people would believe?

      I’m guessing by the way people jumped all over clemens that they would have done the same to pettitte. I agree it’s sad, but it’s also true. He may have gotten a slight break because he’s much more likeable than than the rocket, or because people were focused on roger, but I think the backlash would have been there.

      Every poll I’ve seen on ESPN or FOX since the report came out, up to last night, has the public believing at about a 65% clip (that’s a rough average) that clemens is guilty without any real evidence either. I saw an online poll last night though that swings it to 56% now feeling clemens is innocent, no doubt based upon his willingness to testify to congress.

  • Realist

    The whole problem with all of this is that the whole PED’s scandal is akin to chasing ghosts. The MAIN problem with this whole damn thing is Selig and MLB ‘s turning a deaf ear and a blind eye on the problem years ago. Had they implemented any sort of reasonable guidlines 15 years ago or sooner , this debacle wouldn’t be what it is today. Virtualy a non issue as the aforementioned PED’s weren’t banned substances when anyone whom is being implicated now , used them.

    Baseball players were skinny guys ( most of them ) who were considered “sluggers” if they hit 30 HRs. Now 2nd basemen do it and it isn’t the feat it once was….MLB saw this trending in the mid to late 80’s and NOW they finally are against it in the past few years? They were all for it until they were caught with their hands in the cookie jar and I find it ironic that Selig , a team owner , would assign a team employee to clean up the mess he allowed over his reign?

    It wreaks of deceit , denial and corruption…………

    • Whitey14

      I actually agree with your basic premise, but I think I’d have to expand it to include the fans as we also turned a blind eye. I felt for a long time that the explosion in power numbers was the result of further expansion resulting in extremely weak pitching staffs, as well as some of the newer parks being designed to be hitter friendly. I don’t think anyone thought in 1987 that steroids were at the heart of the issue. (At least that’s the year I think I remember Dawson, Bell and McGwire going wild). But you’re right, when guys like Soriano and Gonzalez and Brady Anderson starting hitting 40+ bombs, I think we all turned a blind eye to the potential of drugs. When they caught McGwire with Andro is when I recall people beginning to talk/suspect more openly that drugs could be playing a role in the increased power numbers.

      You’re right though, there is plenty of blame to go around and tabbing somebody other than Mitchell to do the initial investigation would have helped. I still maintain though, that the power of Subpoena was necessary to make every player talk, under oath, to the investigation team.