Comments on: Taking a lesson from Cal Ripken http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/ A New York Yankees Blog Wed, 15 Feb 2012 02:23:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: eric from morrisania http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54657 eric from morrisania Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:23:19 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/23/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54657 BOLD PREDICTION: Jeter continues to deny all thoughts of moving off his SS position. When asked, he insists that he's the Yankees shortstop and that he's looking forward trotting out to short on Opening Day of the new stadium next year. After 2009, when Damon and Matsui's contracts are up, Jeter moves to LF. ARod stays at third, stating that he doesn't want to keep bouncing around and that he's happy with the way his defense at third is improving. Carmen Angelini continues to impress at Trenton, and the Yanks set an ETA of mid-2010 for his ML debut. To fill the gap, the Yankees sign Jack Wilson to a two-year deal. BOLD PREDICTION:

Jeter continues to deny all thoughts of moving off his SS position. When asked, he insists that he’s the Yankees shortstop and that he’s looking forward trotting out to short on Opening Day of the new stadium next year.

After 2009, when Damon and Matsui’s contracts are up, Jeter moves to LF. ARod stays at third, stating that he doesn’t want to keep bouncing around and that he’s happy with the way his defense at third is improving. Carmen Angelini continues to impress at Trenton, and the Yanks set an ETA of mid-2010 for his ML debut. To fill the gap, the Yankees sign Jack Wilson to a two-year deal.

]]> By: Sciorsci http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54468 Sciorsci Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:30:41 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/23/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54468 Jim Edmonds definitely came to mind as I was writing about someone who made plays look even harder than they should have. Contrast that with a younger Andruw Jones that got to everything with such ease that it looked as if it was hit right at him. Jim Edmonds definitely came to mind as I was writing about someone who made plays look even harder than they should have. Contrast that with a younger Andruw Jones that got to everything with such ease that it looked as if it was hit right at him.

]]> By: Jeter’s Future (and weekend wrap up) « Generation Third http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54440 Jeter’s Future (and weekend wrap up) « Generation Third Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:54:23 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/23/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54440 [...] bloggers such as River Ave. Blues, WasWatching, and Sliding into Home all share the same [...] [...] bloggers such as River Ave. Blues, WasWatching, and Sliding into Home all share the same [...]

]]> By: Whitey14 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54390 Whitey14 Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:36:34 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/23/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54390 Not to go off subject for too long, but your premise of players making routine plays look difficult has been my argument against Jim Edmonds for years. He is the master of one thing and one thing only and it isn't defense. It's the catch and dive and I'm sure you all know what I mean. It's timing the ball just right so you can intentionally make a routine, or even a moderately difficult play, look incredible. I'm not saying that's the case with Jeter, it's more likely his lack of range, but as a Red Sox fan, I'll never forget the dive into the seats along the third base line a few years ago. It was definitely one of the best plays I've ever seen. Every player loses some range as they get older and that's the case with Jeter as well. I'll be very curious to see what happens 2-3 years down the road if all of their youth pans out. Will there even be room for him on the team? Not to go off subject for too long, but your premise of players making routine plays look difficult has been my argument against Jim Edmonds for years. He is the master of one thing and one thing only and it isn’t defense. It’s the catch and dive and I’m sure you all know what I mean. It’s timing the ball just right so you can intentionally make a routine, or even a moderately difficult play, look incredible. I’m not saying that’s the case with Jeter, it’s more likely his lack of range, but as a Red Sox fan, I’ll never forget the dive into the seats along the third base line a few years ago. It was definitely one of the best plays I’ve ever seen. Every player loses some range as they get older and that’s the case with Jeter as well. I’ll be very curious to see what happens 2-3 years down the road if all of their youth pans out. Will there even be room for him on the team?

]]> By: Chip http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54389 Chip Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:34:29 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/23/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54389 I don't know if I'd say he'd be terrible but he would not longer be above average for sure. I agree that if someone is behind him just tearing up the minors batting .290/.345/.385 would look horrible but if there's nobody showing promise behind him then you might as well keep him. It's not like elite shortstops often hit the free agent market afterall I don’t know if I’d say he’d be terrible but he would not longer be above average for sure. I agree that if someone is behind him just tearing up the minors batting .290/.345/.385 would look horrible but if there’s nobody showing promise behind him then you might as well keep him. It’s not like elite shortstops often hit the free agent market afterall

]]> By: Whitey14 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54388 Whitey14 Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:29:50 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/23/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54388 Me too! Baseball is a game that revels in statistics and for over a hundred years the fans were happy with the ones that were available. Then the sabermatricians got involved and created a few stats that we began to rely on, OPS being just one of them, now it seems like people just want to overanalyze the game and will come to rely on any new stat that comes along. As Steve (a different one) has pointed out, some of the new measurements just don't hold water in this argument. Me too! Baseball is a game that revels in statistics and for over a hundred years the fans were happy with the ones that were available. Then the sabermatricians got involved and created a few stats that we began to rely on, OPS being just one of them, now it seems like people just want to overanalyze the game and will come to rely on any new stat that comes along. As Steve (a different one) has pointed out, some of the new measurements just don’t hold water in this argument.

]]> By: Eyal http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54387 Eyal Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:25:28 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/23/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54387 This is an important point. Be careful with how you use statistics that have have dependencies. The reason a stat like OPS+/ERA+ works is because you factor out park and pitcher/league dependencies. These stats also aren't perfect, but they're a hell of a lot more reliable for objective comparison than fielding statistics. I'm always highly skeptical of fielding statistics. For starters, a lot of them don't have their methodologies posted, or are too convoluted to realistically use. Second, almost all of them rely on the game situation, the team's pitchers (ground ball vs fly-ball), or park conditions. I don't see how you can objectively use these metrics, even over 162 games. Is Jeter sub-league-average defensively? Probably. What is the actual cost to the team in wins or even runs? My guess is little-to-none, and my guess is going to be as good as yours. This is an important point.

Be careful with how you use statistics that have have dependencies. The reason a stat like OPS+/ERA+ works is because you factor out park and pitcher/league dependencies. These stats also aren’t perfect, but they’re a hell of a lot more reliable for objective comparison than fielding statistics.

I’m always highly skeptical of fielding statistics. For starters, a lot of them don’t have their methodologies posted, or are too convoluted to realistically use. Second, almost all of them rely on the game situation, the team’s pitchers (ground ball vs fly-ball), or park conditions. I don’t see how you can objectively use these metrics, even over 162 games.

Is Jeter sub-league-average defensively? Probably. What is the actual cost to the team in wins or even runs? My guess is little-to-none, and my guess is going to be as good as yours.

]]> By: Steve S http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54384 Steve S Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:44:45 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/23/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54384 never a need to apologize, this is what makes this stuff fun. I think there is difference to saying Jeter's defense is below average and saying that him playing shortstop is a detriment to the team. Like I said Ben is right there will come a day when they have to move him. But at this stage were probably two or three years away from that. never a need to apologize, this is what makes this stuff fun. I think there is difference to saying Jeter’s defense is below average and saying that him playing shortstop is a detriment to the team. Like I said Ben is right there will come a day when they have to move him. But at this stage were probably two or three years away from that.

]]> By: steve (different one) http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54381 steve (different one) Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:43:02 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/23/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54381 yes, but if he hits .290/.345/.385 while playing his typical defense at shortstop, he'd be a terrible player at SS too. yes, but if he hits .290/.345/.385 while playing his typical defense at shortstop, he’d be a terrible player at SS too.

]]> By: Chip http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54379 Chip Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:02:08 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/02/23/taking-a-lesson-from-cal-ripken-2198/#comment-54379 It won't be a net positive for the team if the guy taking over shortstop is considerably less skilled offensively than whoever Jeter is pushing off of first, that's the issue here. I also like the comp to Tino and Mattingly but the fact is those are career numbers. If he goes over there and hits .290/.345/.385 then he's hurting the team offensively unless his heir can put up a line at least close to what a firstbasemen should. It won’t be a net positive for the team if the guy taking over shortstop is considerably less skilled offensively than whoever Jeter is pushing off of first, that’s the issue here. I also like the comp to Tino and Mattingly but the fact is those are career numbers. If he goes over there and hits .290/.345/.385 then he’s hurting the team offensively unless his heir can put up a line at least close to what a firstbasemen should.

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