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Follow us on TwitterUpdate: I’m not upset about the dissenting in this post…just wanted to note that a couple of paragraphs got cut out in the middle because I misread a quote attributed to Gomes which I originally has as Shelley’s words. So that kinda took the air out of that balloon.
PeteAbe told us this afternoon that Shelley Duncan slid into Akinori Iwamura with his right spike high. Okay, I thought. No big deal. No, you don’t want your guys taking out other guys’ knees at this time of year, but from the description, it seemed harmless. In fact, I even privately chastised Jonny Gomes for running in from right field. But then I saw this pic:
(AP Photo/Gene J. Puskar)
There’s a difference between sliding with your spikes high and sending your sole towards another man’s family jewels (I’ve always loved that euphemism, family jewels). So I pretty much agree with what B.J. Upton said: “Just a flat-out dirty play. Period.”
As if things couldn’t get worse, Tough Guy Gomes ran in from right field:
(AP Photo/Gene J. Puskar)
“I probably could have done a lot of things worse, but it is a baseball field and there’s fans and kids watching,” said Gomes. “I just had to let him know, that’s not going to fly with me on the field.”
Yeah, it’s nice to see the players fired up. But this needs to end now. It really should have ended after Heath Phillips drilled Evan Longoria. But since we’re far past that point, we need Girardi and Maddon to jointly say “enough.”
Deffinently, with 3 more spring training games and 18 regular season games, this needs to end. Someone will get hurt and the mangers need to step in.
Yeah, i’m over it. This needs to end.
Is it ok if I just call for a dose of reality here ? First, Joe, you don’t represent Yankee Fandom. I am perfectly ok with Shelley here. The Rays started it and Shelley finished it. Suck it up and deal.
Second, Phillips didn’t “drill” anyone. Accounts from the game say he “brushed” him with a pitch and was having problems with his control.
Yeah I agree. The sanctimoniuous-ness of the base note was gag worthy.
You’re okay with a blatantly dirty play? In any game, in any setting, under any circumstances, Shelley would have been tossed for that.
I didn’t say that but I didn’t like the Yankee fans don’t appreciate tone that was present in the original post. I think these two clubs are going to take pot shots at each other for the next 20 or so games.
No, I gotcha on that. I was kinda relieved that it was in the middle of a misattributed paragraph. It wasn’t the right tone to take — obviously, there is some merit to the play, as argued by other fans.
In any case, my last comment was directed to deadrody.
The quote attributed to Duncan about having a teamates back was actually said by Gomes. That makes a big difference in the story. Also…can we talk about Patterson coming in again and dominating? The spot is HIS.
Fixed.
Of course, Shelley had to defend himself: “That was sort of second nature,” he said. “I was taught from T-ball all the way up to have your teammate’s back. With that guy trying to hurt a teammate, I just acted how I acted.”
Shelley, you’re doing little to endear yourself to me and my fellow Yankees fans. First off: “that guy”?
Gomes said that, not Shelley. And Phillips reportedly grazed Longoria with runners on the corners.
What are those size 13’s??? I wouldnt want those anywhere near my boys!
I usually agree wholeheartedly with the posts here, but I couldn’t disagree more.
Not only do I have no problem with what Shelley did here, but I am totally in favor of it. We have been bitching and moaning for years that the Yanks were too laid back and wouldn’t defend themselves. Particularly against the Red Sox, with Boston throwing inside on both Jeter and A-rod among others, there was a certain feeling around baseball that the Yanks were “too classy” to retaliate. Well, my friends, I don’t call that classy, I call it being a bunch of pussies. The Rays messed with us, we messed with them. Yea, Shelley took it up a notch with a well placed boot to the groin, but hey, shit happens. Rarely is a retaliation in any conflict exactly in line with the action preceding it; things are always escalated.
Yeah, I am “OK” with it. He didn’t injure the guy and probably didn’t even try to injure him. He did get his point across, though, didn’t he. AND, if Cervelli didn’t have a broken wrist from a completely unnecessary play, none of this would have happened at all.
Got news for you, lots of people aren’t saints, myself included. If that was the worst thing anyone can think of happening today, I’m more than ok with it.
I think that it was great. Shelley is sticking up for his teammates and yeah while he might get suspended, it still needed to be done.
Totally okay with this. I would have rather his foot be a little lower but without seeing video I’m not going to be too critical. But if you think fans are going to turn on Shelley for this, your nuts. Just like in hockey, we need enforcers and Shelley and Joba are those guys. Like most have said, I’m tired of the BoSox drilling Jeter with no retribution.
his left spike is high, not his right
Was just quoting PeteAbe on that.
You can’t have it both ways by calling the play at the plate legitimate, and then calling this play dirty. They were both hardnosed plays that shouldn’t happen in Spring Training, but are ok in the regular season. Also, a single still shot of Shelley doesn’t really prove what happened. This shot is from late in the play (after he was past the bag) and he’s clearly pulling his leg back at this point. It’s not like he jump kicked Iwamura in the groin.
You can call it both ways. The play on Cervelli, while questionable in Spring Training, is legal. As I said above, even absent the tension, Shelley would have gotten tossed for having his spike that high.
first off Joe, you dont know that Shelley sent his “sole towards another man’s family jewels.” were you at the game? all the time runners end up with a leg up in the air when they slide. the only evidence we have are still photos and reporters’ accounts, and nowhere do they say that Shelley sent his “sole towards another man’s family jewels.”
second, if Maddon wants to ‘play to win’ in ST, then he should be prepared for stuff like this.
btw, guess who the top 3 hitters in the AL are (over the last 10 years) in terms of beanings? yep, all Yankees: Giambi, Arod and Jeter in that order. i’m tired of it, and i think Girardi is too.
I just saw the video of the slide and the incident. To be honest, it doesn’t look like that big of a deal. Shelley didn’t go in that hard and Gomes pushed Shelley. There was no tackle.
link please?
Saw it on ESPN’s PTI
They showed a different version of it on YES too.
I just saw the PTI video (though it wasn’t great quality) and have less of a problem with what Shelley did than I did when I had just seen the picture. Though I don’t approve, I’m not totally upset because at least it shows we can finally stand up for ourselves and not leave our hitters unprotected anymore.
Also, I like PTI but they had no clue. Kornheiser said that Phillips “drilled the first guy up” and that Girardi should be fined 100 K which is ridiculous. I wish they would research what happened before speaking.
Phillips “drilled” Longoria?
from the Times -
“It just barely hit me,” Longoria said. “I didn’t feel like it was intentional.”
Yes, I’ll concede that the comment was made in haste.
I think another point needs to be raised. I’m more than happy that the Yankees retaliated for this, but Shelley shouldn’t have been the one to do it. No player capable of making the major league roster should have done it. Let the AAA team retaliate when the minor league season starts because a couple of minor league kids were involved in the collision. Now Shelley can be suspended, and with the Sox going off to Japan and having a rough schedule to start, we have a chance to start fast and maybe get a good lead on the East in April. With Shelley suspended for a week or two, that decreases our chances of that happening.
Completely unnecessary Shelley.
I have no problem with what happened. Looks like Iwamura was trying to prevent Gomes tackle too!
As far as Duncan, what can you expect from a guy who uses his middle name rather than be called Junior? And what a choice, Shelley! Kinda reminds me of the Johnny cash tune “A Boy Named Sue.”
EJ and the others objecting to the slide:
Do you understand that the still photos don’t necessarily depict what actually happened? Just like words being taken out of context, one picture doesn’t necessarily mean Shelley was trying to kick Iwamura in the balls.
These photographers are paid to take the photos that will attract the most conversation. Obviously, this guy succeeded.
Oh, and this might be a better representation of what actually happened.
http://assets.espn.go.com/medi.....fe2227.jpg
good find.
Good find indeed. It looks like there’s a point of contact in both stills.
Yeah that angle makes it look a lot less dirty.
While I may be a bit annoyed by the play at the plate (however, it is all from second hand accounts, I didn’t actually see the play) I feel the need to note that it was a play at the plate. If a catcher doesn’t want to get knocked down, then said catcher shouldn’t be blocking the plate. If you say “it is his job to prevent the runner from scoring,” well, it is the runners job to “score anyway he can.” Perhaps a bit much in Spring Training, but the only reason there is mention of it is because Cervelli got hurt.
However, if Shelley’s play was just dirty. Spikes high? Seriously? If he was attempting to break up a double play, then it would be as dubious as the one above…a little annoying for spring training, but basically legal. The real issue, however, is that he wasn’t trying to break up a double play. He just wanted to slide in hard.
I am all for fans wanting the Yankees to “develop some personality” because they think the Yankees aren’t “tough enough,” (it is not an opinion I share, but it is one I can accept), but this has just reached absurd levels.
It is March 12!
One point that hasn’t been made that I think should:
This is the problem with “playing to win” or “hard-nosed plays” in Spring Training.
Yeah, the play at the plate was 100% legit and it happens all the time. But, because it happened in ST, Shelley, or Heath Phillips, or TJ Beam, or Farnsworth can feel free to retaliate even if the game is 1-1 in the top of the ninth. What happens if the Yanks lose? NOTHING. There is absolutely no negative result (on the Yanks record) to be held accountable for.
Yeah, Shelley gets tossed in the first or second inning. Oops. Oh well. Yeah he’s out at second “stretching” out a single. Terrible call on his part. Result? None.
This is probably why it’s a bad idea to get rough in ST. The other team can fight back and it literally faces no win/loss consequence.
If he gets fined/suspended that’s one thing, but it’s not like he’s the #1 player. So if one of the AAAA (yes, AAAA) guys on the DRays decides to retaliate in the 2 other games this spring and gets suspended, it just doesn’t matter.
I’m not against either play because everyone knew it was coming. If Maddon said, “he shouldn’t have done that in ST,” Shelley probably lays off. He condoned it, so Shelley took it upon himself to return the favor. Is he right? No. Did I smile? Yes.
I’m not sure that’s true.
It is quite possible that Duncan is suspended.
I understand Shelley will probably get suspended. But, as I said, he’s not a big name guy. That’s the issue. He’ll be the biggest name that gets suspended, but how many guys will get hurt? If Tampa decides to retaliate, it’s not going to be Carlos Pena or Scott Kazmir that do the retaliation. This one isn’t over. Not by a long shot.
The worst part is, if a guy gets fined or suspended for the retaliation, something tells me someone will pay his fine/reimburse his pay. It’s just a very very rough road to go down. Bad blood with young kids continues to boil. With veterans it might not stop boiling, but it doesn’t come to a head (most of the time). This could get dirty.
First, I’m never happy to see dirty plays, whether it comes against or from my beloved Yankees. Secondly, this is ST after all, so I’d hope people (especially players) keep things in perspective.
That being said, I’m glad someone on our team decided to grow some balls. Shelley Duncan continues to endear himself to me every single day, slowly becoming one of my favorite Yankees. I don’t care if it was Francisco Cervelli or Jorge Posada behind the plate with his wrist broken, the psuedo gentleman’s agreement in ST is that such contact is taboo. When the Rays player decided to steamroll Cervelli, he threw the first punch. Maddon said that is was just playing hard.
Now, Maddon is a complete hypocrit, calling Duncan’s play “borderline criminal,” and basically getting a taste of his own medicine. A bitter pill, I’m sure. But thank God we have Shelley. I’m glad someone is out there with some hair on his peaches willing to stand up for his fellow pinstripers.
I haven’t seen a video of the play as of yet, but from the various pics posted, the one here seems to be a bit late, maybe looking more gratuitous because Iwamura had grabbed/lifted Shelley’s leg? I don’t know. But other pics seem to have the leg in a “reasonable” range for a hard slide, if such a standard exists. Maybe I’ll change my mind once I see the video, but for now, I’m looking at it as a *typical* hard slide. From what Longoria himself has said, the Phillips pitch is a non-factor despite the “drilled” language found here.
Again, I don’t like dirty play and I don’t like seeing guys hurt, but at the same time, I think that this sort of precedent - standing up for teammates - has to be set early on. Good for Shelley. I hope that one of his teammates buys him a nice steak dinner tonight.
Too much ado about fringe ballplayers!
“What we saw today is the definition of a dirty play. There’s no room for that in our game. It’s contemptible, it’s wrong, it’s borderline criminal. I can’t believe they did that.” - Joe Maddon (from Pete-LoHud)
haha
Oh, and kudos to Johnny Gomes for simultaneously claiming to be conscious about “kids and families watching the game,” yet having the presence of mind to start a bench clearing brawl. That’s practically G-Rated, Johnny!
Yeah, I heard that too. Kornheiser is an idiot.
^ That was in reference to the PTI comments.
it wasnt a double play, we was trying to stretch a single to a double.
Right. Which makes it not even borderline acceptable.
Just a dirty play.
Even if at the point of contact his spikes were not that high.
my god this shouldn’t even be a discussion, everyone take the tampon out. there are degrees of wrong. What Johnson did to cervelli in a spring training game was wrong to an extent. What Shelley did was wrong, in a sense. But guess what Shelley wears pinstripes. Unless he pulls a Chris Simon, hes fine in my book and Gomes and Johnson are scumbags. I know some important people apparently read this blog but we are still fans right?
PTI and Sportscenter had videos of this, sportscenter also had PeteAbe on the phone talking about it.
-Evan Longoria was not hbp, it hit his shirt and the ump over reacted.
-Why didn’t Girardi make a scene?!? Lasorda at 80 years old argued with the umps more than him
-Shelley went hard, but it wasn’t that violent…
-WTF was Gomez thinking?
-Anyone else notice every outfielder throw their gloves off like it was planned?
If I was Girardi I would tell the yankees to just knock it off until April 4th.
Lol what was Gomez thinking? I don’t think there is anyone in the league that could throw down with Shelley and walk away fine. That guys a caged lion and the team should be ecstatic that they have him.
Probably because it’s Spring Training…if this were July and the Yankees are fighting for a playoff spot, I’m sure Joe flies off the handle.
ST? I don’t think so.
Too bad the Rays didn’t realize this was just ST. Now Maddon looks like the schmuck he is.
not for nothing but “drilled longoria,” apparantly the ball grazed his shirt.
And… the video:
http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPl.....cef142bb45
Yeah, I think Shelley went in a tad high there. No doubt about it.
It’s borderline criminal!!! :p :p :p
Ah, for me it’s never officially spring training until someone does something stupid and it’s endlessly analyzed. I can breathe easy now.
Nice!
and another
http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPl.....38203c8d84
just playing ‘hardball’, as Joe Maddon would say.
THat’s a great video, if only for demonstrating how fast Joe Girardi got right in the middle of the whole thing.
Shelley’s play is a whole lot less “dirty” than I thought it would be. Much more gentle than the home plate slide.
I just hope this is over now.
irresponsible to say that Heath Phillips drilled longoria, the ball barely hit him