Comments on: Karstens heads to the DL http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/ A New York Yankees Blog Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:46:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: RustyJohn http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60342 RustyJohn Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:45:39 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60342 Well in the tradition of Harry Truman- ("There's lies, damn lies and statistics.") and to play the contrarian, again let me rebut... First, if there is an injury the solution is fairly straight forward- someone goes on the DL and one of the proposed long-men would be called up, so no need to have them on the roster. Second, this team won 94 games last year without a long man and the bullpen woes were not a result of there not being a long-man, but of the pen sucking and Torre not being able to manage it properly. I would sit perplexed and wonder why Torre would pull guys after five innings or six innings even if they were throwing well. Then I would cry for Scott Proctor. And, obviously, a big part of that is starting the season with a starting five of Pavano, Pettite, Mussina, Igawa and Rasner. Third, I'd be totally on board for long-man in the pen if long-man in the pen were not named Igawa, Rasner or Karstens Fourth, no stats in front of me, but I'd be curious to know how many of those games where the starter was out in five innings we were either up or down by three runs of fewer- in those instances throwing in a guy who is going to give up another two runs in three innings does no good. Finally, I think we are in agreement that hopefully the starting five are all effective and this never becomes an issue. Maybe Mussina can take a page out of the Jamie Moyer book and just throw 69 MPH change-ups all day. Well in the tradition of Harry Truman- (”There’s lies, damn lies and statistics.”) and to play the contrarian, again let me rebut…

First, if there is an injury the solution is fairly straight forward- someone goes on the DL and one of the proposed long-men would be called up, so no need to have them on the roster.

Second, this team won 94 games last year without a long man and the bullpen woes were not a result of there not being a long-man, but of the pen sucking and Torre not being able to manage it properly. I would sit perplexed and wonder why Torre would pull guys after five innings or six innings even if they were throwing well. Then I would cry for Scott Proctor. And, obviously, a big part of that is starting the season with a starting five of Pavano, Pettite, Mussina, Igawa and Rasner.

Third, I’d be totally on board for long-man in the pen if long-man in the pen were not named Igawa, Rasner or Karstens

Fourth, no stats in front of me, but I’d be curious to know how many of those games where the starter was out in five innings we were either up or down by three runs of fewer- in those instances throwing in a guy who is going to give up another two runs in three innings does no good.

Finally, I think we are in agreement that hopefully the starting five are all effective and this never becomes an issue. Maybe Mussina can take a page out of the Jamie Moyer book and just throw 69 MPH change-ups all day.

]]> By: Count Zero http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60329 Count Zero Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:14:21 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60329 I think you're vastly underestimating the innings. Mussina alone did not make it through the 5th six times last year in only 27 starts -- that's more than 1 in 5 starts. So if he repeats form, he can be counted on for one or two long relief appearances per month all by himself. :P If there's an injury and we need to add Rasner or Igawa as a starter... Sorry I don't have the stat handy atm, but I think the Yankees rotation averaged under 5 IP per start last year. Hopefully, that won't happen again but that works out to about seven or eight long relief appearances per month -- not two or three. You're way out on a very creaky limb of statistical nonsense. I think you’re vastly underestimating the innings. Mussina alone did not make it through the 5th six times last year in only 27 starts — that’s more than 1 in 5 starts. So if he repeats form, he can be counted on for one or two long relief appearances per month all by himself. :P If there’s an injury and we need to add Rasner or Igawa as a starter…

Sorry I don’t have the stat handy atm, but I think the Yankees rotation averaged under 5 IP per start last year. Hopefully, that won’t happen again but that works out to about seven or eight long relief appearances per month — not two or three. You’re way out on a very creaky limb of statistical nonsense.

]]> By: RustyJohn http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60317 RustyJohn Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:45:17 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60317 My post should have said "reaffirming my belief that the team DOES NOT need to carry a mediocre pitcher". I think the intent of what I was trying to say was clearly expressed in the remaining 8 sentences...lol My post should have said “reaffirming my belief that the team DOES NOT need to carry a mediocre pitcher”. I think the intent of what I was trying to say was clearly expressed in the remaining 8 sentences…lol

]]> By: RustyJohn http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60316 RustyJohn Fri, 28 Mar 2008 19:42:33 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60316 Thank you, Ben, for reaffirming my belief that the team needs to carry a mediocre pitcher that would be a 5th starter for a AAAA team rather than a good reliever. I don't understand the logic behind the long reliever just for having a long reliever. If the long reliever is good (see Ramiro Mendoza in the mid-90s) then great- you have someone who can work a few innings and keep the game close. But this idea that you need a long reliever in case Moose gets shelled in three innings so...what? You can bring in another pitcher to get shelled for the next three innings? If the bullpen is in such disrepair on the day that Moose gets shelled, guess what? Moose doesn't come out of the game- he stays in there getting his ass beat until the end of the fifth. Otherwise, you bring in another reliever who throws two innings or three innings instead of four or five. How many games are there going to be when the starter comes out in the second or third inning? Two a month? Three a month? So for 12 innings a month we toss someone who is effective off the roster and put in someone who is going to have an ERA of 6.00. Smart....or we can have the person who is effective on the roster add flexibility to the bullpen. Thank you, Ben, for reaffirming my belief that the team needs to carry a mediocre pitcher that would be a 5th starter for a AAAA team rather than a good reliever. I don’t understand the logic behind the long reliever just for having a long reliever. If the long reliever is good (see Ramiro Mendoza in the mid-90s) then great- you have someone who can work a few innings and keep the game close. But this idea that you need a long reliever in case Moose gets shelled in three innings so…what? You can bring in another pitcher to get shelled for the next three innings? If the bullpen is in such disrepair on the day that Moose gets shelled, guess what? Moose doesn’t come out of the game- he stays in there getting his ass beat until the end of the fifth. Otherwise, you bring in another reliever who throws two innings or three innings instead of four or five. How many games are there going to be when the starter comes out in the second or third inning? Two a month? Three a month? So for 12 innings a month we toss someone who is effective off the roster and put in someone who is going to have an ERA of 6.00. Smart….or we can have the person who is effective on the roster add flexibility to the bullpen.

]]> By: Count Zero http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60266 Count Zero Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:04:48 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60266 I gotta disagree with you on the long man situation -- there's a very valid reason to carry a long man, it's not just a "tradition" with no logical reason behind it. Especially given the Yankees' April schedule and the fact that Moose is a blowout waiting to happen in the first three innings every time he starts. It's already been discussed in other threads, so I won't rehash the position here. For all of you who keep saying: "Patterson and Ohlendorf can go three innings," just what are you basing that on? The fact that they couldn't do it worth a crap when they were starters? Both of these guys got a huge career boost when they <i>stopped</i> pitching multiple innings, so I fail to comprehend your logic on this. My theory: Sometimes you just have leave someone out there to suck up innings regardless of how badly it's going. Shit happens. You're going to get hammered every once in a while. I would much rather that "someone" be a Rasner, than it be someone like Patterson or Ohlendorf, because I want the latter two to build confidence, not lose it. I would keep Rasner, Patterson and Traber at this point. Let Ohlie start the season in the SWB bullpen making Bruney look like the piece of garbage that he is. The situation is going to be fluid and Ohlie will be in NY before 50 games have been played. I gotta disagree with you on the long man situation — there’s a very valid reason to carry a long man, it’s not just a “tradition” with no logical reason behind it. Especially given the Yankees’ April schedule and the fact that Moose is a blowout waiting to happen in the first three innings every time he starts. It’s already been discussed in other threads, so I won’t rehash the position here.

For all of you who keep saying: “Patterson and Ohlendorf can go three innings,” just what are you basing that on? The fact that they couldn’t do it worth a crap when they were starters? Both of these guys got a huge career boost when they stopped pitching multiple innings, so I fail to comprehend your logic on this.

My theory: Sometimes you just have leave someone out there to suck up innings regardless of how badly it’s going. Shit happens. You’re going to get hammered every once in a while. I would much rather that “someone” be a Rasner, than it be someone like Patterson or Ohlendorf, because I want the latter two to build confidence, not lose it.

I would keep Rasner, Patterson and Traber at this point. Let Ohlie start the season in the SWB bullpen making Bruney look like the piece of garbage that he is. The situation is going to be fluid and Ohlie will be in NY before 50 games have been played.

]]> By: rbizzler http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60256 rbizzler Fri, 28 Mar 2008 16:25:16 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60256 The gym is boring, I prefer to get my workouts in the great outdoors. Sorry for the off topic posts... The gym is boring, I prefer to get my workouts in the great outdoors.

Sorry for the off topic posts…

]]> By: yankeesdaily.com » Blog Archive » Pride of the Yankees 2/28/2008 The Bloggers http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60227 yankeesdaily.com » Blog Archive » Pride of the Yankees 2/28/2008 The Bloggers Fri, 28 Mar 2008 14:13:28 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60227 [...] Karstens heads to the DL - Ben K. - River Ave. Blues [...] [...] Karstens heads to the DL - Ben K. - River Ave. Blues [...]

]]> By: pete c. http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60220 pete c. Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:36:27 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60220 Even if those guy's (Patterson and Ohlendorf) get sent down. They gotta know they'll head north before to long. Even if those guy’s (Patterson and Ohlendorf) get sent down. They gotta know they’ll head north before to long.

]]> By: Pablo Zevallos http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60217 Pablo Zevallos Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:24:11 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60217 Then who's our 5th starter? Then who’s our 5th starter?

]]> By: Eric from morrissania http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60216 Eric from morrissania Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:20:21 +0000 http://riveraveblues.com/2008/03/27/karstens-heads-to-the-dl-2419/#comment-60216 We already have a long man in the bullpen. His name is Mike Mussina. We already have a long man in the bullpen. His name is Mike Mussina.

]]>