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Follow us on TwitterWhile the Yanks win in Baltimore, Hank awakens from his slumber
Posted by: Ben K. in News. Tagged: Hank Steinbrenner, Joba ChamberlainThe Yanks won today, and as is often the case when the Yankees win, I’m happy not to nitpick the game.
I could write about how Jason Giambi is 3 for 3 with 2 HR and 4 RBI against Mike Timlin and 2 for 43 with no home runs and 2 RBIs against everyone else. But SG at RLYW did a better job writing about Giambi and his potential future in New York in this post.
I could opine about the silver lining in the timing of A-Rod’s injury. His wife is due to give birth this week, and his quad strain can heal while he attends to Cynthia. But Kat O’Brien already wrote a whole story about A-Rod’s injury.
Instead, I’ll write about the words of wisdom that Hank Steinbrenner, quiet through the season’s first 20 games, threw our way this evening. Take it away, Michael S. Schmidt:
With the Yankees off to a 10-10 start, and with two of their young starters struggling, the Yankees co-chairman Hank Steinbrenner said there was one thing in particular he would like to change: He wants Joba Chamberlain, the Yankees’ hard-throwing setup man, to move into the rotation.
“I want him as a starter and so does everyone else, including him, and that is what we are working toward and we need him there now,” Steinbrenner said Sunday by telephone. “There is no question about it, you don’t have a guy with a 100-mile-per-hour fastball and keep him as a setup guy. You just don’t do that. You have to be an idiot to do that.”
Here at RAB, we try to be a bit more diplomatic about it than Hank is, but the man’s got a point. He continued: “The mistake was already made last year switching him to the bullpen out of panic or whatever. I had no say in it last year and I wouldn’t have allowed it. That was done last year, so now we have to catch up. It has to be done on a schedule so we don’t rush him.”
Hank, for the record, also feels that Mike Mussina “just needs to learn how to pitch like Jamie Moyer.” And I agree; as I’ve said numerous times, Mussina simply cannot get hitters out by blowing them away with his 85-mph fastball. In fact, he’s gotten few swing-and-misses this year. Mussina instead must get by while command and guile. He has seemingly yet to embrace that.
But Mike Mussina aside, the good stuff here is really about Joba. Hank wants his hard-throwing power pitching throwing innings that count. He doesn’t want him throwing rather meaningless 8th innings in three-run games. Hank sees a rotation struggling with command, struggling with getting guys out, and he knows that a potential fix is waiting in the Yankee bullpen.
Right now, simply because of innings limits, the Yanks can’t rush Joba into the starting rotation. But the tide is turing; the Yankees will deploy Joba in the rotation sooner rather than later. And it seems to me that, as Hank professed his faith in Phil Hughes and Ian Kennedy, Mike Mussina is now on notice. Shape up; those footsteps you hear are from the 22-year-old fan-favorite will four Major League-caliber pitches under his belt.
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This is some of the best news I’ve heard lately. I am so glad that they are not gonna keep Joba in the bullpen any longer than he HAS to be. I can not wait to see Joba the Starter!
Do you think Mussina could do anything out of the pen?
I can’t wait to see Joba starting games and dominating with his stuff for six innings every five days rather than his current work. I must say though that I seriously doubt the ability of a pitcher to throw 200 innings when he’s throwing 100 mph fastballs and 90 mph sinkers. I have to hope that for the sake of his arm, especially when people are saying his mechanics are poor, the speed slows. I don’t think it’s physically possible to show that commanding power and speed inning after inning, and start after start without something getting blown out in that million dollar arm.
I heard when he’s a starter he sits more at the 94-96mph range instead of the 97-100mph as a reliever.
Well, shoot, “only” 94? Can’t be a ML pitcher when you “only” throw 94
I agree with the basic premise - Joba as starter is a very good thing - but I see this comment as bad news. Going into this, the one good thing you could say about Hank was that, while he has a tendency to run his mouth and sound like a jackass, he is smarter and more patient than his father. He’s a Steinbrenner, but he at least makes some promising noises about the importance of the farm system, not judging Hughes on his first full year, etc.
I’d still say that’s all true, but these comments sound more like crazy Big Stein to me. Joba simply couldn’t pitch a full season as a starter without creating a massive unnecessary injury risk. Everyone knows this, and it isn’t rocket science. There is no reason to think that he is in the bullpen for any other reason, or that Cashman didn’t plan to get him back to starting. There are other ways that problem could have been addressed, but there is no denying that he can’t throw 200 innings. Hank’s suggestion that shifting him to the pen was a ‘panic’ move completely ignores this issue.
One of the biggest questions about the Yank’s future that this year will answer is to what extent Cashman will be undermined by another deranged idiot. As much as I’m delighted to know that Joba will head back to the rotation, this is not a good sign for the answer to that question.
To assuage your fears somewhat, the Yankees are not run as a Hank-led dictatorship. Hal has an equal say in these decisions, and Brian Cashman and Joe Girardi lend their input as well.
I do think Hank is right though when he says that Joba’s move to the pen was a panic move. Last season, it was a clear-cut panic move. The Yanks needed 8th inning help, and Joba’s stuff suggested that he could fill the role. Had the Yanks never moved Joba to the pen last season, we wouldn’t be having this discussion, ad nauseum, this season.
I don’t think panic is defined as “we need to win as many games as we can because we’re within striking distance of the playoffs, so let’s get this guy up here, have him relieve, and see if he helps the ballclub get into October.”
The Yankees weren’t in panic mode when Joba was moved into the big league bullpen. They had fought their asses off all season to get into position to win the wild card, if not the division (which they damn near did, as well). Using all your assets to accomplish a professional mission is not panic; it’s good common sense.
Was it panic when Torre had Mo pitch three innings in game seven of the 2003 ALCS? No. It was the right thing to do. Just as putting Joba in his best position to help the club, last fall, was the right thing to do. What were Torre and Cashman supposed to tell the players last season? “Guys, we have a stud down in the minors who we think could get us into October…. but we’re going to leave him there because bringing him up now would upset our plans for the next 3-to-5 years….. So thanks for your efforts fighting out of that 20-29 hole, but let’s pack in until next season…..”
Moving Joba then was the right move; keeping him there to start this season was the right move. Is it time now to re-think strategy? Maybe. But I think it’s a more a sign of panic to abandon your plan just 20 games into the season.
No one wants another disastrous April-May stretch like what we endured in 2007, but 20-20, with this ass-ripping schedule, is not a bad accomplishment. The decision makers will do what they must, but calling last season’s experiment an exercise in panic is not accurate, from where I sit.
The way to avoid this discussion, or at least have it over by now, would be to have Joba begin the season in the rotation. Sure, a blown game or two in the 8th inning would have had everybody going crazy, but quality starts by Joba would quiet that down. Then, his move to the bullpen later this season would have been an automatic one based on his innings cap - leaving no room for second guessing.
Now, they will do it mid-season, and for the first 2 weeks or however long it takes him to get ready, there will be no starts by Joba to offset his departure from the bullpen, and if games are blown it will be mass hysteria.
I don’t think the Yanks panicked when they brought him up last season, I think they panicked this spring when they took a look at the bullpen without him in it.
Joba starting the season in the rotation wasnt possible with the innings cap.
and if you started him at the beginning of the season as a starting pitcher, and he was in Scranton on April 1st so you could limit his innings for the first 2 months of the season, the fans wouldve went batshit crazy because he wasnt in the majors.
I meant that they should have done the reverse of what they are doing now.
Start him in the rotation, move him to the bullpen at X amount of innings pitched.
+2 points for the use of “assuage”
OK
Hank-On Brian Cashman: “I always told him, `I’m going to make the final decisions because when you’re the owner you should.’ He is the general manager, and he has the right to talk me out of it and he has talked me out of some things.”
Hank on Santana- “The bottom line is, it’s my decision,” Hank Steinbrenner said.”
Spot on accurate. I agree with what Hank is saying in this case, but cringe at him saying this. Think of the outrage here if Hank said he wanted Joba to be a reliever forever or if he starts going off on how the Yanks should have given up Hughes for Santana.
The fact that we think he’s right this time is irrelevant. Having Hank speak up against the baseball people is a troublesome sign, especially so early into the season. Hopefully, this is a rare abberation, but I tend to doubt it.
At least Hank doesn’t run this alone. His desire to win and Hal’s balance of fiscal discipline may make a good combination. At least I hope.
Hank is a fucking pimp. I can’t wait to read the uproar by the mediotic Joba-to-the bullpen guys have to say this morning. I’m literally going to search through thick and thin for every fucking article I can find to read their response, oh this is going to be fantastic.
So basically, Eat it Mike Francesa, Chris Russo, Jon Heyman, Joel Sherman, Mike Lupica, Bill Madden and Joe Morgan (just cause).
“…That was done last year, so now we have to catch up. It has to be done on a schedule so we don’t rush him.”
That quote right there puts me at ease because although Hal, Cash and Joe G do have a say in the matter I was still afraid that Hank would have pulled some dumb crap and try to put him in the rotation now which would screw with the innings cap.
People in the media have been saying from Day 1 that Hankenstein has been a detriment to organizational dealing because of his public statements. I defy them to prove this so. Then again, when has the NY media ever needed proof to make such a statement on radio or in print?
With Hughes only throwing 14 innings his last three starts I’m thinking that he might be able to make more than what some people had predicted his cap to be 180 innings or 23-25 games. Say he gets rights the ship mid season and ends up with 27-28 games pitched…that leaves 5 or so starts needing to be filled, and 5 or so from kennedy’s left over, and 10 (lets say) from moose spot…That leaves chamberlain with 20-22 starts, so a beginnng june to mid june transition would be ideal and that should bde well for the ensuing run for the playoffs
now if farnz and moose can be taken off the big club b y this time it would open up spots for alby and patterson. To bad for Briton cause I feel he’s been shafted by the yankees
“Instead, I’ll write about the words of wisdom that Hank Steinbrenner, quiet through the season’s first 20 games, through our way this evening”
So what do pitchers do, in the present tense? “Thregh” the ball?
Somewhere, Red Smith is crying.
And somewhere, people aren’t snide jerks when we make typos.
And somewhere, websites that have copyeditors on their mastheads get copyedited.
And that, Ben, doesn’t qualify as a typo.
Grow up.
Grow up.
Pot, meet kettle.
Not funny, not to the point. Your blog is great, but it’s riddled with typos and poor usage. Don’t bother to respond, Ben. If you don’t get it, you don”t get it.
As Jamal said, Hank’s the f’m pimp.
If this would have been George Steinbrenner 20 years ago, the edict would have been that the Yankees trade Hughes for Jamie Moyer.
I know that folks love to hate on Kevin Youkilis on this sight so thought I would share his early season stats. Currently Youk leads the American league with a 378 BA, is tied for the league lead with 28 hits and is sporting an OBP of 435. He is doing this while seemlessly covering at third base for the injured Mike Lowell. I guess there isn’t room for a guy with this talent and flexibility on the Yankees. Youk just isn’t handsome enough, better to have the “slick fielding” Jason Giambi.
Early nominee for “Most Irrelevant Post of the Year”
That’s not at all why people don’t like Youk. And what does this have to do at all with the post here?
I know that folks love to worship Kevin Youkilis up in Boston so I thought I would share his early season stats from lat year with you. Through the first half of the year, Youkilis had a 328 BA, which got as high as .358 on May 29, had almost 100 hits, and was sporting an OBP of .420. He was doing this while seemingly covering for the ineptitude of JD Drew, Julio Lugo, and Manny Ramirez, and despite being a league average hitter to that point. Truly an all star reborn..
But then a funny thing happened, Something that happens every year and seems to correspond negatively to something that happens to Robinson Cano at around the same time. All of a sudden, Kevin Youkilis, that “Greek” God of Walks, that hero of every blue collar Bostonian, reverted to, well, himself. Starting in June, his batting #s fell off the ledge, plummeting in every category so that his second half #s looked like a mean .238, .356, .391, a whopping 95 OPS+. Ouch. Avert your eyes! And, funny enough, this was nothing knew to those who followed the scrappy, hairy chined bemoaner of called strikes. For his career, Kevin Youkilis has an OPS+ of 78 in the second half. Egads!
So, you’re right, there isn’t room for a guy with this “talent” and “flexibility.” In fact, you might say the have the same thing in the “more attractive” and “just as slick fielding” Wilson Betemit, who may not reach those highs, but also doesn’t reach those lows, and plays more positions, thus being more flexible. Of course, he could never live up to the image of the scrappy, blue collar, “dirt dog” image so coveted in Boston and that has turned the likes of Youkilis, Pedroia, Varitek, and Trot Nixon into Gods, but, you know, thats okay….
Sorry for dragging this out Ben, I realize it has nothing to do with your initial post, but I can’t hold my thoughts.
Zack, did you seriously just compare Youkilis to Betemit? Youkilis had a very nice 2006 and then improved upon it in 2007. We don’t worship him in New England, we appreciate him, and he earns that appreciation by being an excellent fielder (even though he has limited range) and by being the type of player who hustles and doesn’t give away at bats. He still needs to get used to the grind of playing 140+ games, which is more than was expected of him in the minors. Although his numbers dipped in the second half, I’m sure you were watching when he went 14 for 28 against Cleveland with 1 2B, 1 3B and 1 HR along with his 10 R and 7 RBI. Plainly put, they don’t win that series without him.
Betemit had a future in atlanta until they decided to move jones back to 3B. He sucked after being sent to LA and he’s sucked since being acquired by ny. You’re right he wouldn’t make it in Boston and it has nothing to do with his scrappiness, it’s the fact that he strikes out every three at bats throughout his career. That just doesn’t cut it for a bench player and ny will soon cut bait on him as well.
I can’t speak for yankee fans because I’m not one, but I’m guessing if Youkilis had come up a yankee, you’d appreciate him just as much as we do in New England. Even if he is ugly, goofy and has a weird chin.
Also, it’s a little early in the careers of cano and Youkilis to be using phrases like “happens every year”. We probably ought to reserve that for guys with at least 6 or 8 seasons behind them so we can truly see their trends.
haha, you’re so clever how you capitalize ‘Boston’ and ‘Youkilis’ but then write ‘ny’ and ‘yankees’ and ‘cano’. some kind of subliminal war you’re trying to wage?
i can do it too: The NY Yankees’ Wilson Betemit is 3 years younger than boston’s kevin youkilis and has played 3 more positions - very valuable in a reserve. at this point Betemit’s not as good a hitter as youkilis but is certainly better than julio lugo (and more versatile), he of the career 88 OPS+ (64 with boston). boston would make that trade in a heartbeat even though Betemit is essentially a backup. see.
Damn it Travis, I’ve been doing that for months now and you’re the first person to mention it!
If the Sox traded Lugo for betemit, it wouldn’t be because they wanted betemit for anything, it would be to remove Lugo’s horrible contract and to open a spot for Lowrie. It’s nice that betemit is flexible and a solid defender, but he holds nowhere near as much value as Youkilis.
I despise Lugo personally (he was in the past busted for hitting a girlfriend I believe. He does drive in runs and steal bases. Salaries aside, I’ll take him over betemit until betemit gets a full season under his belt and proves me wrong, which I don’t think will happen in ny as they seem to feel he’s better suited for a bench role as well. As for his 96+ OPS, not enough of a difference over Lugo’s 88+ and I prefer Lugo’s 174 steals to betemit’s 5
can’t get anything past me!
i’ll take Betemit’s age (26) over lugo’s (32). one is entering his prime while the other is leaving it. and what do lugo’s steals matter if he doesn’t get on base (boston OBP sub-.300)? Betemit is counted on merely as a UIF while lugo is your starting ss.
Actually, I did compare the two. And I stand by it. I’m not saying I would take Betemit OVER Youk, I don’t think anyone would, but more that the attention and hype Youkilis has gotten is grossly disproportionate for what he has done and is likely to do. Remember, this is a 29 year old who isn’t likely to get all that better as he is in his prime right now.
If by “very nice 2006″ you mean an ops+ of 106, then yeah, i guess that’s”nice,’ but to me that is “league average” with another extreme 1st half 2nd half split-almost no power after the break.
And come on, are you seriously trying to argue that he isn’t worshiped in Boston? There’s nothing wrong with that, look at Paul O’Neill. What it does though is overhype his true ability. Sure, he had a great series against Cleveland. But he had two crappy other series. Lots of players can rise up for a series. Look at Scott Brosius, I would hardly call him a great player (and he tends to get overhyped too), but he had some great post season series. Doesn’t make him something other than what he was.
As for Betemit, as I said, I don’t think hes as good as YOukilis, but that comment was in response to the post above it, which claimed “there isn’t room for him” or some such. And I responded that the Yanks in face have a flexible guy, who, if given the playing time of Youkilis, could probably equal his OPS+ while playing MORE POSITIONS.
I don’t want to sound sanctimonious here, so bear with me and I’ll explain the worship commment. Worship is what people did in yankee stadium on Sunday. Maybe people will disagree with me, but we don’t, or at least should not, worship ballplayers. Knowing what we know about prefessional athletes as a whole, it would just be setting us up for an inevitable fall. Maybe it’s only semantics and I shouldn’t make a big deal about it. My apologies.
From my viewpoint I tend to root for the Sox more as a team than the individuals. I’ve rooted very hard for three particular Red sox players in my life: Jim Rice, Mo Vaughn and Pedro Martinez. Jim Ed never let me down. Not with off the field antics or by leaving town after saying he would stay if certain contract demands were met. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
That being said, I think the point you were trying to make was that Youk is a fan favorite in New England and that we Sox fans hold him in higher regard than baseball fans across the country and you’re certainly correct in saying that.
You make a great point about betemit being flexible, and that’s defintely valuable for a bench/role player, but I don’t think we’ll ever get to see if you’re correct about his full season OPS+ capabilities, unless he leaves the yankees for a better chance at more playing time.
Youkilis does add more value to the Sox than just his solid offensive production. He is a Gold Glove First Baseman and he can slide across the diamond to fill in at Third Base when needed. I won’t bother to argue that he can play Left Field. Even though he’s done it, it wasn’t pretty and would actually cost him points in this debate.
I expect Youkilis to hit .300, with 15-20 HR and 80-90 RBI. If he does that and continues to play Gold Glove caliber defense he’ll continue to suit the Sox needs.
He is kind of dopey though, huh?
Somebody should probably point out that Jamie Moyer’s always pitched that way, he just got a better at it over time. It would be hard for Mussina to re-learn how to pitch at age 39. Mussina looks done to me, but Joba to the rotation isn’t going to be simple. He needs to develop a third pitch, and he obviously needs to build up endurance. I don’t see him in the rotation until after the ASB. And then, of course, the question becomes what to do with Mussina. It seems that a team in the weaker league, say Atlanta or New York, could use an innings eating starter. Mussina might just be league average pitching half his games in Shea or for the Braves.
He already has four pitches. FOUR. Why does he have to develop a third pitch when he alreay has four?
Joba’s curveball > Joba’s slider
He went fastball-slider out of the pen because the two pitchers work extremely well together in short stints, see almost every damn reliever worth something in baseball.
Joba’s dropped a few curves this year, which to me says he’s trying to maintain a feel for it for when he does go back to the rotation. His changeup is a fourth pitch, but BA said it was above-average with potential to the be plus.
If anyone needs to develop a third pitch, its Phil Franchise
Why does everyone (including Hank) assume that Joba will just jump in and be an ace starter? Long term he will probably be very good, but he could also be a bust. Short term, I don’t think we should expect any more from him than we’re currently getting from IPK and Hughes. Comparing Joba starting in spring training and IPK and Hughes recent struggles, they all seem to have the same issue of trying to be too perfect and nibble around the edges of the zone. I expect they’ll all get this straightened out, but there’s no guarantee that Joba will automatically be more effective than Mussina this year.
I dont think anyone is assuming he’ll be an ace starter, but he’ll be an upgrade from what you get from IPK, Hughes, and Moose, minimally.
Joba has the gas to make a hitter swing and miss, even when he makes a mistake in the zone… thats something IPK and Moose simply dont possess right now…. and Hughes just throws too many pitches early.
i personally think the offense is more of a problem than the pitching, but i dont diagree with working to transition Joba into the rotation sooner than later…
i said it before, i thought they shouldnt have even brought him back to Baltimore once he left Nebraska, but rather send him right to AAA to stretch him out…
give him 4 starts in Scranton, and he’d be ready to go for mid to late May…. by then, you’ve given Moose, Hughes, and IPK another handful of starts to prove their worth at this point in the season, and whoever is shitting the bed more than the other two gets the boot from the starting 5.
Both IPK and Hughes have enough ’stuff’ to get hitters out in the zone. The problem is with their metal approach and not challenging hitters. Both of them (and Joba as well) were very good at challenging hitters as starters in the minors. Joba has also shown that he will attack hitters as a reliever. The question is what will he do as a starter in the majors. By his own admission, he was trying to be too careful as a starter in spring training. As soon as he moved to the bullpen, the aggression came back.
If he’s tentative as a starter then he won’t be an upgrade over IPK, Hughes or Moose - he’ll just be another guy throwing 100 pitches in 4 innings.
I’m sick of the incessant claims that they don’t challenge hitters. They have given up 44 hits in 30 innings - that doesn’t happen nibbling around the edges. It happens from leaving pitches up over the plate.
I think Hanks’s comments are to a large part directed at the media.
From Bob Klapisch to Mike Francesa nearly everyone in the media is uniformly against Joba moving to the rotation. Even Susan Waldman and John Sterling are against moving him to the pen and they don’t often contradict things that the organization have said.
And the media has been very vocal about this issue. So most fans keep hearing over and over that the yankees would be crazy to move Joba as he is “irreplaceable” as the set up guy. How many times a week is that written about or talked about.
I think Hanke’s comments and the way he made them are a wake up call that Joba is definitely moving to the rotation, it’s a decision that goes all the way up the chain of command in the organization and it backed by all the baseball people.
This is a wake up call to start reporting a different story because Joba’s future is not going to go along with the narrative the media has preordained for him.
Regardless of you agree with these comments, I just think that Hank should shut up about day to day baseball matters. It just seems far too James Dolan for me. The Yankees were always most successful when George sat down and let his “baseball people” handle things, Hank should follow suit.
Man, has the yankee organization really needed someone like Hank.
I agree with the man, somewhat. I would wait about 2 weeks to see how thi