Posted by mobile phone:Live from the Stadium, I’m just wondering who’s booing Latroy now. Not only does he have a new number but he escaped the sixth without giving up any runs. Hallelujah.
Now you’re just showing off Ben.
Hey Ben, hope ya having a good time! And I don’t know who this “Latroy” is you’re talking about. But yes, Clemens did look good out there
Ben, I hate you.
On the other hand, I hope your having as good a time as I’m having at home.
Wait, I don’t understand. You’re saying people are still booing him, or that no one is booing him now?
“Live from the Stadium, I’m just wondering who’s booing Latroy now. Not only does he have a new number but he escaped the sixth without giving up any runs. Hallelujah.”
And top 7th. Its a numbers game
Do any of the other bleacher creatures read RAB that you know of?
I know they wrote a book but it’s still weird to see bleacher creatures and read in the same sentence
If he was still wearing number 21, I would definitely boo him.
You’d do everyone a favor if you cheered him. Players don’t perform better when their home crowd boos them without just cause. If a player wearing a certain number is reason to boo a player, then why root for the Yankees? For past idols?
yeah!! boo!! 2 scoreless innings against the Sox after your starter has shit the bed and the Sox have piled on 9 runs in 5 innings.
i would boo that too.
after all, he’s wearing an UNRETIRED number!!11!
You’re going to start flaunting Hawkin’s performance in my face after 2 innings?
He’s been good his last 3 or 4 times out, but you might want to temper yourself a bit before you start writing the legend of LaTroy.
Some of you guys talk about Paul O’Neill like he’s fucking Earle Combes or something.
And then here’s LaTroy Hawkins throwing Roberto Clemente into the discussion as a way to act ignorant of people not wanting anyone to wear 21 in pinstripes. 21 isn’t Clemente in the Bronx.
But it’s sort of a moot point. LaTroy has changed his number and we, the people who don’t want to wear O’Neill’s number, have won. Just like Paulie O’Neill won all those World Series rings.
yes… paulie single handedly won all those world series rings.
Hey your words, not mine. I think single-handedly is a bit strong, but it’s great to see other people on the O’Neill bandwagon.
Hey r.w.g. –
Spud Chandler was a righthanded pitcher for the Yankees from 1937-1947 (although he missed two seasons to the war.) During his 11 year career, he never once had a losing record. He went 109-43 in 211 games with 109 complete games and 26 shutouts and a career ERA of 2.84. He was a four time all-star (although, considering his honors are wrapped around the ’44 and ’45 seasons that he missed to the war, it could have been six) and he still holds the Yankee records for lowest single-season ERA (1.64) and career W/L percentage (.717, which is the highest of any pitcher with 100 wins in the entire history of the whole league).
In 1943, he had one of the best pitching seasons in the history of the league, when he went 20-4 in 30 starts with a 1.64 ERA, 20 complete games and 5 shutouts, a WHIP of .992 and a K/BB ratio of 2.48, and won the MVP award, the only Yankee pitcher ever to do so. (He probably would have won the Cy Young award, had it been invented yet.) Oh, yeah, and he won six rings during his tenure (going 2-2 in the World Series with a 1.62 ERA and a shutout.) And, again, if not for the war, that could have been 8 rings.
Spud Chandler is one of the greatest heroes of the Yankees, and his stellar play brought us numerous titles and essentially established the great dynasty we celebrate now.
For the majority of his career, he wore #21.
For this reason, I VOW TO BOO THE LIVING FUCK OUT OF PAUL O’NEILL EVERY TIME I SEE HIS UNGRATEFUL, UNWORTHY, NON-SIX-TITLE-WINNING ASS FOR HAVING THE GALL AND TEMERITY TO TARNISH THE GLORIOUS LEGACY OF SPUD CHANDLER AND #21. PAUL O’NEILL HAD NO RIGHT TO WEAR THIS NUMBER THAT SHOULD BE RETIRED AND AS A YANKEE FAN, IT IS MY DUTY TO SCREAM BOO AT HIM AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY, AND IF I SEE HIM ON THE STREET, I’LL PUNCH HIM RIGHT IN HIS STUPID JOURNEYMAN FACE.
Why do you hate Paul O’Neill?
I mean.. what was Spud Chandler doing when his dad died? What were you doing when yours died?
Now.. I don’t know the answer to these questions. But I will go out and a limb and say that playing in the world series won’t be the answer.
But I will go out and a limb and say that playing in the world series won’t be the answer.
congrats. this is the single stupidest post in the history of RAB.
so because O’Neill’s father died during the WS, his number should be retired?
you have really made some stunningly stupid arguments in this thread. i am simply at a loss for words.
You really believe that everything I’ve said (whether it was spruced up for effect or not) is more stupid than trying to argue that Paulie fucking O’Neill doesn’t deserve to have his number retired?
Queens is that way.
i’m pretty sure most Yankee fans would agree that O’Neill’s number should not be retired.
why don’t we take a poll here?
who thinks the Yankees should retire O’Neill’s number?
oh, and everyone who disagrees with you is now a Mets’ fan? you’re even dumber than i originally thought.
I would appreciate it you called the argument “dumb”, or called the premise of retiring O’Neill’s number “dumb”.
The Queens comment was kind of a joke, like one you would make if you were arguing about sports at a bar. It’s not meant to be a personal slander on you, different steve. So in the future, don’t call me, as a person, dumb.
fair enough. the Queens comment didn’t come off as a joke.
since i guess i misinterpreted, i apologize for calling you dumb.
you’re right, no need for the personal insults, but i thought you were calling me a Mets fan, which is the biggest insult of all.
let’s just agree to disagree. it’s fairly obvious that this Paul O’Neill thing just can’t be discussed rationally on either side.
i want to make it clear that i am a HUGE Paul O’Neill fan. i got into a pretty extensive argument on this very blog with Mike Plugh who was trying to argue that Matsui was as good as O’Neill.
i just don’t think his number should be retired. that’s all.
Besides, Spud Chandler’s exploits sound extremely similar to Roger Maris, only on the pitching side. And you remember from the other thread that Maris was one of my targets of Yanks who do not deserve to have their number retired.
Chandler has the lowest ERA in a season, Maris has the highest home run total
You guys just keep bringing up any good player who had decent numbers on a championship team. You keep ignoring that Paulie O’Neill was one of the key cogs and driving forces behind the resurgence.
You guys talk about him like he’s fucking Raul Mondesi. He isn’t Hank Bauer or Tommy Henrich.. he was not just another bopper to clean up Maris, mantle, Gehrig, DiMaggio, or Berra’s run scoring opportunities. Frankly you ought to be embarrassed as a Yankee fan. What the hell were you watching in the late 90s?
RWG – the point of my post was not that Paul O’Neill should or shouldn’t have his number retired. The point is it’s retartedly moronic to boo a player for wearing a number that another player previously wore.
You claim that Latroy Hawkins is somehow disrespecting Paul O’Neill, who was a great player, for wearing #21, and thus, his affront should be publicly scorned by Yankee fans booing him lustily until he relents. I’m pointing out to you that I can easily argue that Paul O’Neill himself is disrespecting Spud Chandler, who is an even GREATER player, by wearing CHANDLERS’ #21, and that the only reason O’Neill wasn’t booed into humiliation and didn’t end up picking another number back in the early 90′s when he arrived here is because Spud Chandler’s fans were either dead or not insipidly stupid and classless enough to boo a decent human being who is just trying to earn a living and help the Yankees win some games.
Look, I AGREE with you… I’ve felt for years that #21 should be retired for O’Neill. More recently, after learning about Spud Chandler, I think the number should be retired for both of them, just like we did with #8 for Berra and Dickey. I realize that many Yankee fans disagree with me on this topic, and that’s fine; their arguments are valid. But even though I think the Yankees should retire #21 immediately, I will NEVER, EVER, EVER agree with the idiotic idea that you are justified in booing a player for wearing a number that is rightly issued to him. You’re not. Whether they player asks for the number or not, irrespective of his reasoning, regardless of the history of the number or the player or the previous holders of the number… You’re not. If you boo him, you’re an idiot.
If you absolutely feel the need to boo somebody over this “affront”, boo George Steinbrenner for not retiring the number by now and making it a moot point. If you boo Latroy Hawkins, you’re either a shortsighted neophyte with no sense of history or perspective, or a flat out idiot.
Oh, and btw, regarding how I should be “embarrassed as a Yankee fan” since I don’t know how great O’Neill was: This has NOTHING TO DO with how great or not great O’Neill was. It has EVERYTHING TO DO with how stupid booing members of your own team is, especially for something as trivial as a uniform number.
Hawkins gets scorned because he knew nobody wanted him to take it (see: Ensberg, Morgan) and he did it anyway. Then he says it’s for Roberto Clemente so anybody who criticizes him looks like a fuckass.
I don’t know what the solution is. I honestly think if people don’t want Paul O’Neill to have his number retired.. then a bunch of other numbers need to be put back into circulation. Make it more than 50% of your career with the Yankees and a Hall of Famer. Make that the criteria and I’ll shut my mouth and Hawkin’s can wear any damn number he pleases.
Look if it was up to me.. Charlie Keller, Tommy Henrich, Joe Gordon, and Paul O’Neill would all have their numbers retired. Roger Maris, Reggie Jackson, Billy Martin, Gator, and Rizzuto would probably would. Rizzuto would have the best chance to stay.
I just don’t think it’s fair at all to tow the line on Paulie and not go back and tow the line on some guys who didn’t do enough to deserve it. If Allie Reynolds doesn’t have his number retired, why the hell should Jackson or Maris?
*probably would not have their numbers retired.
Again, totally not germane to the point at hand. You keep talking about Paulie’s number being retired. You haven’t explained why it doesn’t reek of utter douchebaggery to boo the individual player who, totally without malice, accepts the number instead of rightly directing your displeasure at the multibillion dollar corporate enterprise that chooses not to honor the number with the veracity that you feel is appropriate.
To put it most simply: LaTroy Hawkins (and Morgan Ensberg) did not disrespect, tarnish, sully, belittle, minimize, cheapen, offend, or in any other way harm the legacy of Paul O’Neill’s Yankee career in ANY of their actions. AT ALL. Other people or entities may have, but not those two players. Ergo, if you choose to boo either of those players, you are criticizing them for the potentially inappropriate or offensive actions of others… and that makes you a massive douchebag.
Out of curiosity, did you boo David Wells? Didn’t he ask to wear Babe Ruth’s jersey number AND his hat? Isn’t that ten million times worse, along the whole “Current Player X is not as good as Historic Player Y, therefore he has offended us as fans by attempting to ride the coattails of his legacy and we must boo him”? Should Yogi Berra have been booed for wearing Bill Dickey’s #8? Did you boo Joe Page, Johnny Sain, Hector Lopez, Fred Stanley, Dwight Gooden, Chuck Knoblauch, Gary Sheffield, Doug Mientkiewicz and Morgan Ensberg for all wearing #11, which once belonged to Lefty Gomez, one of the greatest pitchers of all time, a man in the Hall of Fame, and a MUCH MUCH better player than Paul O’Neill, all things considered?
What about Roger Peckinpaugh and Willie Keeler, two great Yankees whose careers came before the uniform number era… should we boo all the draft picks on the 40 man roster until they pick a number, since not having one is offensive to these two great players?
Should Detroit Lions fans have booed Barry Sanders for wearing Billy Sims’ #20? Should Knick fans have booed Earl Monroe for wearing Dick McGuire’s #15?
DO YOU SEE HOW MONUMENTALLY ASS-CLOWN STUPID THIS IS??!?!?!?!
I did boo David Wells, actually. Not for that, because that was just another example of why David Wells was all about David Wells. And he didn’t get the number.
LaTroy got it because he knew it was an issue and then did it anyway. And I can’t take it issue with it because it’s all for Roberto Clemente, everybody’s favorite person. Leaving the number out of circulation for 7 seasons and then assigning it to a back up 3B was bad enough. After that mess Hawkin’s dove right back in and started the BS all over again.
Lefty Gomez is another guy that is in a similar position as Paul O’Neill. He’s pretty borderline and you could make a case for him.
… apparently you don’t.
Ben — posting from the stadium now? The awesomeness of this blog knows no bounds.
Ben, Lucky you. You got your money’s worth tonight. Another enjoyable game, with the Yanks piling it on. Big G got a couple of hits. Maybe he still has some quickness left?
Let’s not forget Traber and Bruney who completed the win for the pen.
CMW said his sinker was too strong, too low, and the sox laid off. When he went higher later in the game, four-seemer?, they hit it. Maybe he needs still another pitch he can throw for strikes against veteran teams?
wang’s biggest problem was control. he was constantly behind hitters. his sinker was either in the dirt for balls or too high and hit. he couldn’t find a medium like Friday night when he could place the ball with ease.
rwg – you won all right: the ####### prize.
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