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River Ave Blues
So Chien-Ming Wang is down for what could be a while, a gigantic blow to the Yankees’ playoff aspirations. When discussing replacements, the first name to pop up is CC Sabathia and rightfully so. He’s young, durable, a Cy Young Award winner, a lefty, and a strikeout machine. The problem is that Cleveland GM Mark Shapiro is going to expect a hefty bounty for his hefty ace, again rightfully so. The initial reaction is one of desperation, the “give them whatever it takes” mentality, but Brian Cashman can’t operate like that for obvious reasons.
So what do the Yankees do? Do they mortgage the farm for CC? Do they go with a patchwork rotation until Ian Kennedy and/or Phil Hughes are back, and hope they pitch up to expectations? Do they hope a kid like Alan Horne or Dan McCutchen step up (neither has been particularly impressive in Triple-A)? Has Dan Giese shown enough to be trusted every 5th day? Whatever solution Cash goes with, he’ll be heavily scrutinized. It’s part of being the Yanks’ GM.
While CC is the most desirable option, the price might not be right. Bill Gates didn’t get rich by bending over backwards for IBM, and the Yankees won’t make the playoffs by overpaying for established players, no matter how great they are. Here’s a handful of players that could be had on the cheap, or at least cheaper than Carsten Charles. Fun starts after the jump.
Derek Lowe
A workhorse and a veteran of the AL East wars, Lowe had a a miserable start to the year, but since May 23rd he’s posted a 2.00 ERA and a 0.97 WHIP while throwing at least 7 innings in all 5 outings. More importantly, his GB/FB ratio sits at 2.39 over that span. Lowe will earn $10M this year, and will certainly be a Type-A free agent after the season. He would be a three month rental, and the Yanks coud either choose to keep him around next year and beyond, or collect the picks. The Dodgers have lost 5 in a row and are currently 5.5 GB of the first place D-Backs, maybe Colletti decides to move Lowe while his value is high. The Dodgers could use middle infoeld help and, of course, pitching.
Kevin Millwood
The big, burly sinkerballer has already told CC to “go where you’re comfortable, not where the money is [when you hit the FA market],” which too me is a giant sign that Millwood is miserable in Texas. He’s got a limited no trade clause, but that might not be an obstacle if he really wants out of Arlington. Millwood’s having a not so stellar year, and is due to make $31.5M through 2010 (his deal can be voided if he pitches <540 innings from 2007-2009 - he’d need to throw 295.1 IP between now and the end of 2009 to reach that goal), the two factors that make him readily available. He’s been through the grinder with Atlanta, and he doesn’t seem like the type that would be scared off by New York. If the price is right, you could do worse. Texas needs pitching, pitching and more pitching.
Greg Maddux/Randy Wolf
Talk of a Padres’ fire sale was never ending a month ago, but they’ve climbed to within 6.5 GB of Arizona after winning 7 of their last 10. Perpetually looking to unload salary and build for the future while trying to win now, Kevin Towers’ two best trade chips are Maddux ($10M this year, 115 ERA+) and Wolf ($4.75M, 100 ERA+), crafty veterans that should bring a decent haul in return. Maddux takes the ball every 5th day like clockwork, but Wolf boasts sexier strikeout numbers and throws from the portside. The Padres need help everywhere except first base.
Paul Byrd
Remember how much Peter Gammons’ whined about how disgraceful it was that A-Rod’s opt out announcement came during Game 4 of the World Series? How come he wasn’t complaining when Paul Byrd’s steroid allegations popped up right before Game 7 of the ALCS? Hmmm. Anywho, Byrd is having a typical Paul Byrd season: lots of hits allowed, not many strikeouts, almost no walks, and oodles of innings eaten. He’s not flashy, but he’s just about league average and will give you everything he has each time out. If nothing else, I trust Byrd more than I do Kei Igawa. Cleveland needs players that can slug more than .350.
Erik Bedard and AJ Burnett are also a possibilities, but at that price you might as well just go ahead and trade for CC, who’s better than either of ‘em. If the Yanks want to go super bargain basement shopping, Victor Santos, Kirk Saarloos, and old friend Randy Keisler are having good seasons in Triple-A, while Brett Tomko and Steve Trachsel were both recently DFA’ed. Livan Hernandez and David Wells are also readily available. Not the most desirable options, I know, but I’d figured they’re at least noteworthy.
For the record, I want the Yanks to stand pat for now. IPK should be back this month, and Giese has shown enough to warrant at least one start. The Yanks could put together a package to acquire CC at any time (Hughes, Cano, Ajax should be plenty), so there’s no need to rush into it and have Shapiro take advantage of obvious desperation. If you’re looking for a real darkhorse, here’s a good one: Al Aceves. Last year he pitched in the Mexican League, roughly equivalent to Triple-A.
What do you guys think, who else could be a reasonable fill in?
how about farnsworth for heilman and make him a starter where he really wants to be… just a thought
Aaron Heilman sucks. Always has, always will. Doesn’t have that third (or even second) pitch needed to start.
I would rather just have Farnsworth than Heilman. At least Farnsworth sucks in the AL not Heilmman who sucks in the NL. Plus,k Heliman would suck as starter.
The problem is that us Yankee fans can deal with the fact we may not make the playoffs or win the World Series. It is OK to lose once and awile. Although I am a true believer in player that have proven themselves already (Santana & CC) I think the Yanks should have dealt the 2 maybes, Kennedy and Hughes for the real deal Santana. Do we all Forget Wilson,Pulispher and Isringhausen?
One out of three, and Izzy is a closer now not a starter. Take the proven not the probably !!!
I say go with what you got or one of your cheaper solutions. They already risk the season by starting two rookies in their rotation why stop now and overpay for rental who doesn’t even seem interested in becoming a Yankee.
Bad news for the Yankees / Good news for the Indians afte Wang went down and could be lost for the season . About 8 GM’s interested in CC all had heart attacks at the same time .
Cashman just saw the light at the end of the tunnel suddenly become farther away .
And the remaining 7 GM’s looking to try to pick up CC now realize now the Yankees will be willing to give up more than before , and because of that now they may have to offer player thought untouchable before just to stay in the market for last years cy youg award winner and current AL Strikout leader.
In The last 10 games CC’s starts ERA 2.22 Not bad.
Is it time to break the bank for CC or maybe call up Horne and give him 2 or 3
starts to see what you have before including him in a deal for pitching help.
So now would this deal look so bad Hughes / Cano / Francisco Cervelli / Chase Wright / Austin Jackson knowing that the team will most likely get 72 hours to try to work out a contract with CC’s agent .
I feel the team that does make the trade will sign him prior to the deal being completed reguardless of which team ends up with him.
What? What? What? You’re giving up Hughes, Cano, AND AJax, with MORE? Whatever it is you’re on, pass it over here.
If you were getting Sabathia for 5 years at a discount rate, you only do that trade if you think Hughes is the next Pavano or that this year’s Cano is the real deal.
sidney ponson was just released from texas, he was having a good yr, do we take a chance?
I’d rather kick a judge in the head than see Ponson back in the Bronx.
I think Sidney may have worn out his welcome in the bigs. Might be time for him to go to Japan, or the indy leagues. He’s not much better than Kei Igawa, sadly.
He was released because in the two months he was there he managed to piss off the entire organization, despite pitching well. It must have been pretty bad– they’re desperate for pitching and still released him.
no. no. no.
Oh noes. Sidney Ponson? AGAIN? Sir Sidney should never even wear a Yankees replica uniform again, let alone the real pinstripes.
Haha, how about Johan Santana? time for the Mets to rebuild. they need… everything.
Also, Matt Cain?
Carl Pavano!
I’m starting my Carl Pavano campaign. Time for him to make good on his $39.95 million contract.
If he returns to the Yankee clubhouse, the players might see to it that Pavano has a broken wang.
Seriously, how far away is he from being able to pitch in a game not that he wouldn’t get hurt in the first inning.
Dunno. I’m looking but I can’t find any information newer than two-three weeks old.
That name is considered a curse word in my house.
send tabata somewhere keep Ajax
Stupid comment of the day.
I don’t think so. If I had to trade one at this point, I’d trade Tabata. Of course it would be selling low at this point.
Why would you give up on a 19 yr. old w/ his upside when you can get CC for a blank check in the offseason ?
I agree 100%, I’d prefer to keep both. I was just saying that if a deal was made and one of those two had to be included, I’d rather send Tabata packing.
How could you possible suggest sending Hughes, Cano, and Jackson. Thats ridiculous! Ok maybe you didn’t suggest it, but please don’t even utter such nonsense!
What the Yankees would be trading for his 3 months of CC and the first crack at signing him to a long term extension. The cost is, at a minimum, the replacement of 2 first round picks and price of those three months and exclusive signing rights.
How much that is debatable, obviously, but the Yankees aren’t the only ones interested in signing a young, big, lefty power arm that already has some serious hardware. Those exclusive signing rights are worth a lot.
Oh, i love the notion that the Yankees are guaranteed to have a shot at Sabathia in the offseason.
Ever heard of another team trading for a player and signing him to an extension before he hits the Market???
Make no mistake about it. In no way am i advocating trading away our top prospects for CC.
To the contrary. . .
One thing to consider is that with the double header against the Mets, the Yankees are going to need 6 starting pitchers next week. This is only a short term issue, but it may have longer term implications.
I hear David Cone and Al Leiter are battling it out to see who’s going to pitch that game.
Before Wang came up limp (heh), I figured Giese would start one of those games. Plans have changed, obviously.
Shawn Chacon?
Not a bad idea, but he’s kinda sucked this year (and most of his career).
Jaret Wright is a free agent. So is Aaron Small.
Damn, why not sign and just start Cole that the first around pick, right?
Mike,
Would you really be OK with giving up Cano, Ajax, AND Hughes? That seems like an insanely hefty price to pay for someone who could spurn us come free agency. I know it’ll probably take a king’s ransom to get CC, but if that’s the package, I say pass. I know that Rich Harden is ridiculously injury prone, but he’s been great since coming off the DL. Any chance we could get him without getting smoked by Billy Beane?
No, I wouldn’t be okay with that package at all. I was just using it as an example of the Yanks being able to put together a package to acquire CC whenever they want.
Right, I gotcha and I agree. What about Harden? Can we replace Wang with a Harden? (I was obligated to do that)
Hah. Well done.
genius.
Funniest thing I read all day
we are screwed because cashman has the reins…he screwed up last winter and this summer will be no different…the kids are zero wins…and besides rasner is not the answer either…so you have two weak areas in the rotation…its either trade for a quality starter or forget this season altogether…i hope they get a good starter and we can use him next year as well…
you are a bore.
LOL
yeah just like every year when something like this happens and people piss and moan and then arron small and shawn chacon and dan giese (AHA!) and all these guys come in and everyone calls them garbage and somehow they win (or eat enough innings to let us win) and it all works out. throw enough crap at the wall and someof it will stick. How about kei igawa for the rally monkey? or how about that knuckleballer form seattle, r.a. dickey? bring back the k-ball
i’m probably in the minority here, i’m sure. but i think that Cashman should go for Sabathia, and like now.
this offense is finally hitting its groove, and you’ve got a nice flow going thru the rotation. why mess around with a journeyman like Giese or rush a prospect like McCutcheon or hope Horne or IPK come back and contribute right out of their injuries.
youve got the resources to make the trade, and extend him if he’s interested in making money.
Tell Shapiro you’re willing to offer more value if you acquire him for July, and not just at the deadline.
I’ve felt that the Yankees could afford to let go of Cano if that was the only real piece to the puzzle, but i’ll take a step back from there and look at it from the Indians perspective… they basically need to just get back more than the talent they would get from the 2 draft picks they’d have next June.
the yankees system cant afford to make that happen? please.
grow some stones, Cash, and make a deal.
Granted, AG could probably replace Cano’s offense thus far this season, but it’s tough to let go of a talented hitter.
Although, I’d rather let some other fans watch him swing at first pitches from wild pitcher and ground out weakly.
But in addition to Cano, Shapiro would ask for Hughes as a PTBNL, and Horne/Marquez, plus probably a AAA/AA relief arm (Melancon, Robertson, Cox, etc.).
It won’t be an easy deal.
at this point, i’m saying you dont even need to trade Cano in a package for CC, if you want to look at it objectively.
just two players equivalent to better than what theyd get in next year’s draft, plus another player.
on another thread, someone mentioned for an example, McCutcheon, Tabata, and Betances.
The best possible comp picks the Indians could recieve for CC are #16 & 31 overall. Given the way the ‘09 draft class is shaping up, we could give them Mitch Hilligoss and George Kontos and it would be an upgrade. Might as well throw in Austin Krum just to make them happy.
but this is what i’m saying. keep it in perspective. its not going to cost what everyone things it would cost upon first impression.
now if you want to tell me the Indians would take a somewhat lesser package to ship CC to the NL like the Twins just did, well then thats a different story.
but you cant tell me the Yankees dont have the farm to take a hit on what one this one trade would cost them.
sorry, thinks** it would cost.
i generally agree about the possible cost, but i disagree that the Yankees would be able convince Shapiro to deal Sabathia NOW.
maybe if the Yankees offered Joba.
o/w why wouldn’t they hold out and try to get as many teams involved as possible, all the while monitoring their own playoff status?
it has nothing to do with Cashman’s “stones”. Shapiro isn’t going to deal Sabathia in June.
Yeah, just two guys better than draft picks, but only if the Yankees were bidding for CC’s services. That ain’t going to be the case.
Those exclusive signing rights, and the three months of 08, are worth a whole bunch more that Kontos and Hilligoss or any other marginal minor leaguers.
Shapiro is going to want oodles of talent for CC because he’s going to get multiple offers.
The other thing to remember about draft picks is the top picks aren’t always the best. Just some random names…
Pujols was a 13th round pick.
Uggla 11th round.
Pettitte 22nd round. Actually, the Yankees didn’t even sign him until after their draft rights expired and he became an amateur free agent.
Posada 24th round.
Piazza 62nd round.
So at the very least, you need to offer either high upside low level players or guys from the higher levels that look like they’re going to be able to hold down a 25 man spot soon.
For me the problem isnt just letting Cano go, its the package he will want. If it was Cano and some scrubs for CC I would have to consider it, but they are going to want much more in addition to Cano.
If I am Cashman I call up Beane and Shapiro, I tell Shapiro the package is Horne, Melancon, and one of the A Ballers (Maybe Snyder). I call up Beane and offer the same package but with a lesser third prospect. Stick strong to those offers, if they dont like it fine. I would then call up either Horne or McCutchen and let them fill the 5th starter part until Kennedy or Hughes is healthy
Still laughing out lound at the above post .Let me enlighten you yesterday at Cleveland Stadium seating behind home plate was Scouts from 8 different teams to watch CC pitch.
last year Cy young award winner Leading the AL in strikeouts this year
last 10 games started 2.22 ERA If he were with the Yankees that would have been 10Wins.
You think you would get this guy for a bunch of if’s , maybe’s or I don’t knows.
WOW you must attend alot of minor league games .
You also must think Cashman is stupid he would never pull the trigger on a 4 or 5 for one without eithier signing the player before completing the trade or at least knowing that he will be able to sign him .
I think you will have to give up Hughes - for sure I know the Indians are also very interested in Cano / then you would be looking at 2 to 3 minor leaguers that will come out of this pool (McCutcheon, Tabata, Horne, Francisco Cervelli, Chase Wright ,Austin Jackson , Jesus Montero.)
They perfer Horne who they originally drafted but he opted for school
Francisco Cervilli and Austin Jackson or Tabatha
I see two problems with this:
1) I don’t think the Indians are ready to throw in the towel at 6 GB in the L column when the mediocre White Sox are in 1st. They want to deal CC after the ASB if they are really out of it.
2) CC basically refused to negotiate an extension after the season began. So, why are you so sure he will negotiate one now? More likely, CC intends to go on the market and will likely pull down something ridiculous like 7x$20MM. To convince him to take an extension you will almost certainly have to beat that.
So you’re advocating trading Hughes, Cano and AJax for three months of CC and the opportunity to give CC 7x$22MM or more. This makes absolutely no sense to me. I wouldn’t do that deal even if I thought CC was the next coming of Whitey Ford.
I’m sure Cash’s phone has blowin’ up since Wang went down.
Without getting into specifics, if you don’t trust the young arms from AAA to fill in this season, you’re almost certainly going have trade one or more for an experienced ML pitcher. I can’t imagine any team giving up a ML arm without getting two minor leaguers back. Outside of the big lefty, any of the pitchers on the block are stop-gaps at best, and are nothing to plan on for next year. Granted, the Yanks have a bunch of, which shifts a bit of the advantage in their favor. But it’ll take a lot more than a Karstens or Wright to land anyone decent.
So throw McCutchen or Horne in the rotation and play merry-go-round with IPK - unless CC could be had for a reasonable offer (which is up to Cash).
I think people are crazy for giving up a Grade A package for a guy that we can get in the off season for free. There’s no way in hell I’m offering up any of our best players for CC. The indians have to take what they can get or risk losing him in the off season for just the draft picks. And if they decide to go that route, then so be it.
But we can’t just wait around and “get [C.C.] in the off season for free”. All-Star caliber pitchers don’t make it to the offseason, they get traded and extended by the teams who trade for them. Almost every single big-name starter who has moved from one team to another this decade (Santana, Beckett, Haren, Schilling , Hudson, Mulder, Bedard, Penny, Clemens, Randy Johnson, Wells, Freddy Garcia, etc.) was acquired by trade and then extended. The true free agents are much fewer and further between (Zit