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	<title>Comments on: Dissecting Joba&#8217;s starting debut</title>
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		<title>By: River Ave. Blues &#124; Was Joba getting squeezed?</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/06/dissecting-jobas-starting-debut-2955/#comment-88962</link>
		<dc:creator>River Ave. Blues &#124; Was Joba getting squeezed?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 21:01:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=2955#comment-88962</guid>
		<description>[...] my post-game analysis of Joba&#8217;s start, I noted that the Ed Hickox&#8217;s strike zone was something a little less [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] my post-game analysis of Joba&#8217;s start, I noted that the Ed Hickox&#8217;s strike zone was something a little less [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: tommiesmithjohncarlos</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/06/dissecting-jobas-starting-debut-2955/#comment-88932</link>
		<dc:creator>tommiesmithjohncarlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 20:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=2955#comment-88932</guid>
		<description>#8.  Stupid smiley face...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#8.  Stupid smiley face&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: tommiesmithjohncarlos</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/06/dissecting-jobas-starting-debut-2955/#comment-88928</link>
		<dc:creator>tommiesmithjohncarlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 20:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=2955#comment-88928</guid>
		<description>I agree with everyone who says that Joba should be getting stretched out in the minors, where the pressure is lower and he can feel freer to experiment with his secondary pitches.  However, the problem is that If we send him down, we don&#039;t have any reasonable alternatives to replace him in the rotation.  Consider this:

Organization wide, as of June 2008, our top four starters are:
1) CMW
2) Pettitte
3) Mussina
4) Rasner

The next group is:
5) Jeff Karstens (injured)
6) Ian Kennedy (injured)
7) Phil Hughes (injured)
8) Joba on a pitch count, shadowed by a long man (like Dan Giese)
9) 
10) 
11) 
12) David Wells (if we were stupid enough to sign him)
13) Steven White, Jeff Marquez, or Daniel McCutchen, none of whom should leave Scranton one second before 12:01 am, September 1, 2008
14) Chase &quot;4 homers&quot; Wright
15) Kei &quot;Mr. Instant Loss&quot; Igawa

While there are valid arguments to sending Joba down, the argument that we&#039;re throwing away June games by keeping him up here is not a valid one.  Joba plus a shadow DOES give us the best chance to win, because until some of our hurt starters get healthy (or we acquire some other innings eater), Joba is BY FAR the best option we have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with everyone who says that Joba should be getting stretched out in the minors, where the pressure is lower and he can feel freer to experiment with his secondary pitches.  However, the problem is that If we send him down, we don&#8217;t have any reasonable alternatives to replace him in the rotation.  Consider this:</p>
<p>Organization wide, as of June 2008, our top four starters are:<br />
1) CMW<br />
2) Pettitte<br />
3) Mussina<br />
4) Rasner</p>
<p>The next group is:<br />
5) Jeff Karstens (injured)<br />
6) Ian Kennedy (injured)<br />
7) Phil Hughes (injured)<br />
 <img src='http://riveraveblues.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> Joba on a pitch count, shadowed by a long man (like Dan Giese)<br />
9)<br />
10)<br />
11)<br />
12) David Wells (if we were stupid enough to sign him)<br />
13) Steven White, Jeff Marquez, or Daniel McCutchen, none of whom should leave Scranton one second before 12:01 am, September 1, 2008<br />
14) Chase &#8220;4 homers&#8221; Wright<br />
15) Kei &#8220;Mr. Instant Loss&#8221; Igawa</p>
<p>While there are valid arguments to sending Joba down, the argument that we&#8217;re throwing away June games by keeping him up here is not a valid one.  Joba plus a shadow DOES give us the best chance to win, because until some of our hurt starters get healthy (or we acquire some other innings eater), Joba is BY FAR the best option we have.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: tommiesmithjohncarlos</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/06/dissecting-jobas-starting-debut-2955/#comment-88917</link>
		<dc:creator>tommiesmithjohncarlos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 19:55:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=2955#comment-88917</guid>
		<description>But here&#039;s the question:  If they&#039;re behaving unintelligently and following the rantings of blowhards like Kay and the Post and the Daily News, are they truly Yankee fans?  Or are they something else... Yankee fans in name only?

One of my favorite sayings from a friend of mine:  &quot;The problem with Christians is that there&#039;s so few of them.&quot;

Not interjecting religion into this, just referencing a comparative statement.

You could also say that &quot;Sometimes I wish this sold-out Yankee Stadium would have a few more Yankee fans in it...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But here&#8217;s the question:  If they&#8217;re behaving unintelligently and following the rantings of blowhards like Kay and the Post and the Daily News, are they truly Yankee fans?  Or are they something else&#8230; Yankee fans in name only?</p>
<p>One of my favorite sayings from a friend of mine:  &#8220;The problem with Christians is that there&#8217;s so few of them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not interjecting religion into this, just referencing a comparative statement.</p>
<p>You could also say that &#8220;Sometimes I wish this sold-out Yankee Stadium would have a few more Yankee fans in it&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/06/dissecting-jobas-starting-debut-2955/#comment-88876</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 18:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=2955#comment-88876</guid>
		<description>I disagree with innings limit issue, though will eat crow and admit you are right that this is the reason why the Yankee brass did what they did.  Makes sense  

That said, while the health of Joba is very important, fielding a competitive team is tantamount to our success as well as making sure Joba is set for the future.  Having a work-in-progess on the mound is hardly what I call competitive as it puts undue stress on a shaky bullpen.  The only answer I see in this is that they jettison the current crew for a new set of arms (Melancon, Cox, Strickland, etc.) in a few weeks.

If it ends up that Joba fails (trying not to overrreact on just one start, but then again we are a last place team now!) and the bullpen continues to be taxed in each of Joba&#039;s starts however, then Cashman should be fired for bungling this entire process.  His reputation is on the line in handling what has become the gem of our tarnished team.

Personally I think the whole innings limit issue becomes moot if/when Hughes and or Kennedy comes back and the idea of a 6-man rotation becomes a possiblity.  That should and continue to be the solution to Joba re-learning how to become a starter if this is all an innings issue.  

Send him to the minors, then have him pitch every 5th game when he&#039;s ready to provide a quality start.  When either Hughes or Kennedy can pitch effectively (if they can return), transition him to pitch every 6th game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with innings limit issue, though will eat crow and admit you are right that this is the reason why the Yankee brass did what they did.  Makes sense  </p>
<p>That said, while the health of Joba is very important, fielding a competitive team is tantamount to our success as well as making sure Joba is set for the future.  Having a work-in-progess on the mound is hardly what I call competitive as it puts undue stress on a shaky bullpen.  The only answer I see in this is that they jettison the current crew for a new set of arms (Melancon, Cox, Strickland, etc.) in a few weeks.</p>
<p>If it ends up that Joba fails (trying not to overrreact on just one start, but then again we are a last place team now!) and the bullpen continues to be taxed in each of Joba&#8217;s starts however, then Cashman should be fired for bungling this entire process.  His reputation is on the line in handling what has become the gem of our tarnished team.</p>
<p>Personally I think the whole innings limit issue becomes moot if/when Hughes and or Kennedy comes back and the idea of a 6-man rotation becomes a possiblity.  That should and continue to be the solution to Joba re-learning how to become a starter if this is all an innings issue.  </p>
<p>Send him to the minors, then have him pitch every 5th game when he&#8217;s ready to provide a quality start.  When either Hughes or Kennedy can pitch effectively (if they can return), transition him to pitch every 6th game.</p>
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		<title>By: LiveFromNewYork</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/06/dissecting-jobas-starting-debut-2955/#comment-88853</link>
		<dc:creator>LiveFromNewYork</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:54:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=2955#comment-88853</guid>
		<description>He still needs to learn patience.  It drives me crazy watching him chatting with Abreu in the dugout and all I want to do is scream at them to talk PATIENCE AT THE PLATE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He still needs to learn patience.  It drives me crazy watching him chatting with Abreu in the dugout and all I want to do is scream at them to talk PATIENCE AT THE PLATE.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ben K.</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/06/dissecting-jobas-starting-debut-2955/#comment-88848</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben K.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=2955#comment-88848</guid>
		<description>You just cannot do this in Spring Training this year. A lot of people refuse to admit this, but Joba Chamberlain is on a strict innings limit. The Yanks have learned from Mark Prior that young pitchers are fragile. Had they done this in Spring Training, Joba would have reached his limit by late July or mid August. By delaying this transition they can have him pitch the entire season. Why waste those innings at AAA when he&#039;s never had a confidence problem before? I think you&#039;re just searching for answers as to why he wasn&#039;t as dominant as everyone hoped he would be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You just cannot do this in Spring Training this year. A lot of people refuse to admit this, but Joba Chamberlain is on a strict innings limit. The Yanks have learned from Mark Prior that young pitchers are fragile. Had they done this in Spring Training, Joba would have reached his limit by late July or mid August. By delaying this transition they can have him pitch the entire season. Why waste those innings at AAA when he&#8217;s never had a confidence problem before? I think you&#8217;re just searching for answers as to why he wasn&#8217;t as dominant as everyone hoped he would be.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark B</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/06/dissecting-jobas-starting-debut-2955/#comment-88846</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 17:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=2955#comment-88846</guid>
		<description>Ben-  We were watching the same game.  Confidence and youthful exubernce are two different things entirely.  That is what I saw last night.

We all know Joba has confidence in his fastball.  Correct me if I am wrong, but from watching the game, I could see that he doesn&#039;t have confidence in his other pitches, though.  Pitching a few games in the minors could help him at this.

He might be our second best pitcher, though that goes out the window when we moved him into the rotation.

My issue is that the Yankee brass should have done this in spring training and not the regular season.  Especially at a time when our supposed ace and #2, Wang and Pettittee, are struggling.

Last time I checked, we were never viewed as the front-runner which would possibly allow us to transition a player like this during the regular season.  Fact is, our competition in the AL East has never been better from top to bottom, which makes our margin for error very slim.

One could make a fair argument that he would presumably do better than anyone else available (e.g. Igawa).  Fair argument.

My point is that the majors is a tough place to make any type of drastic switch like this in the middle of the season.  The competition is brutal and the damage it can do to the psyche of a 22 year old is huge.

No one anywhere is writing about what happens it he ends up flopping again as we have so much faith and confidence in him from his past performance.

My guess is that if he does falter in his next two starts, a quick trip down to the minors will be needed to save face for the Yankee brass for making the move when it did and quickly fix his problems.

I hope that isn&#039;t the case, but if it is.....ouch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben-  We were watching the same game.  Confidence and youthful exubernce are two different things entirely.  That is what I saw last night.</p>
<p>We all know Joba has confidence in his fastball.  Correct me if I am wrong, but from watching the game, I could see that he doesn&#8217;t have confidence in his other pitches, though.  Pitching a few games in the minors could help him at this.</p>
<p>He might be our second best pitcher, though that goes out the window when we moved him into the rotation.</p>
<p>My issue is that the Yankee brass should have done this in spring training and not the regular season.  Especially at a time when our supposed ace and #2, Wang and Pettittee, are struggling.</p>
<p>Last time I checked, we were never viewed as the front-runner which would possibly allow us to transition a player like this during the regular season.  Fact is, our competition in the AL East has never been better from top to bottom, which makes our margin for error very slim.</p>
<p>One could make a fair argument that he would presumably do better than anyone else available (e.g. Igawa).  Fair argument.</p>
<p>My point is that the majors is a tough place to make any type of drastic switch like this in the middle of the season.  The competition is brutal and the damage it can do to the psyche of a 22 year old is huge.</p>
<p>No one anywhere is writing about what happens it he ends up flopping again as we have so much faith and confidence in him from his past performance.</p>
<p>My guess is that if he does falter in his next two starts, a quick trip down to the minors will be needed to save face for the Yankee brass for making the move when it did and quickly fix his problems.</p>
<p>I hope that isn&#8217;t the case, but if it is&#8230;..ouch</p>
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		<title>By: Rob_in_CT</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/06/dissecting-jobas-starting-debut-2955/#comment-88827</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob_in_CT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=2955#comment-88827</guid>
		<description>Joba was inefficient, and had some misfortune to deal with.  It happens.  Giese pitched well.  Edwar, who has been pitching well, got utterly rocked, and Hawkins did what he&#039;s fit for: mop up.

As for Girardi... I suppose he could&#039;ve left Giese in.  At some point, however, he&#039;d have gone to Edwar, and Edwar had nothing.  Meanwhile, the Yanks could only manage 3 runs.  The decision to pull Giese after 3.2 innings didn&#039;t cost the game.

Hits &amp; runs and bunts can lead to running into outs.  They&#039;re gambles.  With certain hitters up and certain runners on, I&#039;m fine with some limited gambling.  But let&#039;s not go crazy here.

Britton: agreed he should get a decent shot.  I also hope Edwar doesn&#039;t get buried now.

Cano... forget whether it&#039;s the 1st pitch or 2nd or 3rd.  He needs to get smacked every time he swings at pitches he cannot drive (unless it&#039;s a 2-strike count and he&#039;s protecting).  If the first pitch is a fat fastball down the middle, I want Robinson to hack at it.  If it&#039;s a sinker at the knees on the outside corner, I want him to take it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joba was inefficient, and had some misfortune to deal with.  It happens.  Giese pitched well.  Edwar, who has been pitching well, got utterly rocked, and Hawkins did what he&#8217;s fit for: mop up.</p>
<p>As for Girardi&#8230; I suppose he could&#8217;ve left Giese in.  At some point, however, he&#8217;d have gone to Edwar, and Edwar had nothing.  Meanwhile, the Yanks could only manage 3 runs.  The decision to pull Giese after 3.2 innings didn&#8217;t cost the game.</p>
<p>Hits &amp; runs and bunts can lead to running into outs.  They&#8217;re gambles.  With certain hitters up and certain runners on, I&#8217;m fine with some limited gambling.  But let&#8217;s not go crazy here.</p>
<p>Britton: agreed he should get a decent shot.  I also hope Edwar doesn&#8217;t get buried now.</p>
<p>Cano&#8230; forget whether it&#8217;s the 1st pitch or 2nd or 3rd.  He needs to get smacked every time he swings at pitches he cannot drive (unless it&#8217;s a 2-strike count and he&#8217;s protecting).  If the first pitch is a fat fastball down the middle, I want Robinson to hack at it.  If it&#8217;s a sinker at the knees on the outside corner, I want him to take it.</p>
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		<title>By: LiveFromNewYork</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/06/dissecting-jobas-starting-debut-2955/#comment-88823</link>
		<dc:creator>LiveFromNewYork</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=2955#comment-88823</guid>
		<description>Girardi should have left Giese in and Hawkins out.

Girardi needs to relegate Farnsworth to cleaning lockers.

Girardi needs to pitch Britton.

Girardi needs to call for bunts and hit and runs.

Girard needs to smack Robinson Cano every time he swings at a first pitch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Girardi should have left Giese in and Hawkins out.</p>
<p>Girardi needs to relegate Farnsworth to cleaning lockers.</p>
<p>Girardi needs to pitch Britton.</p>
<p>Girardi needs to call for bunts and hit and runs.</p>
<p>Girard needs to smack Robinson Cano every time he swings at a first pitch.</p>
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