Jun
16

Replacing a broken Wang

By

So Chien-Ming Wang is down for what could be a while, a gigantic blow to the Yankees’ playoff aspirations. When discussing replacements, the first name to pop up is CC Sabathia and rightfully so. He’s young, durable, a Cy Young Award winner, a lefty, and a strikeout machine. The problem is that Cleveland GM Mark Shapiro is going to expect a hefty bounty for his hefty ace, again rightfully so. The initial reaction is one of desperation, the “give them whatever it takes” mentality, but Brian Cashman can’t operate like that for obvious reasons.

So what do the Yankees do? Do they mortgage the farm for CC? Do they go with a patchwork rotation until Ian Kennedy and/or Phil Hughes are back, and hope they pitch up to expectations? Do they hope a kid like Alan Horne or Dan McCutchen step up (neither has been particularly impressive in Triple-A)? Has Dan Giese shown enough to be trusted every 5th day? Whatever solution Cash goes with, he’ll be heavily scrutinized. It’s part of being the Yanks’ GM.

While CC is the most desirable option, the price might not be right. Bill Gates didn’t get rich by bending over backwards for IBM, and the Yankees won’t make the playoffs by overpaying for established players, no matter how great they are. Here’s a handful of players that could be had on the cheap, or at least cheaper than Carsten Charles. Fun starts after the jump.

Derek Lowe
A workhorse and a veteran of the AL East wars, Lowe had a a miserable start to the year, but since May 23rd he’s posted a 2.00 ERA and a 0.97 WHIP while throwing at least 7 innings in all 5 outings. More importantly, his GB/FB ratio sits at 2.39 over that span. Lowe will earn $10M this year, and will certainly be a Type-A free agent after the season. He would be a three month rental, and the Yanks coud either choose to keep him around next year and beyond, or collect the picks. The Dodgers have lost 5 in a row and are currently 5.5 GB of the first place D-Backs, maybe Colletti decides to move Lowe while his value is high. The Dodgers could use middle infoeld help and, of course, pitching.

Kevin Millwood
The big, burly sinkerballer has already told CC to “go where you’re comfortable, not where the money is [when you hit the FA market],” which too me is a giant sign that Millwood is miserable in Texas. He’s got a limited no trade clause, but that might not be an obstacle if he really wants out of Arlington. Millwood’s having a not so stellar year, and is due to make $31.5M through 2010 (his deal can be voided if he pitches <540 innings from 2007-2009 – he’d need to throw 295.1 IP between now and the end of 2009 to reach that goal), the two factors that make him readily available. He’s been through the grinder with Atlanta, and he doesn’t seem like the type that would be scared off by New York. If the price is right, you could do worse. Texas needs pitching, pitching and more pitching.

Greg Maddux/Randy Wolf
Talk of a Padres’ fire sale was never ending a month ago, but they’ve climbed to within 6.5 GB of Arizona after winning 7 of their last 10. Perpetually looking to unload salary and build for the future while trying to win now, Kevin Towers’ two best trade chips are Maddux ($10M this year, 115 ERA+) and Wolf ($4.75M, 100 ERA+), crafty veterans that should bring a decent haul in return. Maddux takes the ball every 5th day like clockwork, but Wolf boasts sexier strikeout numbers and throws from the portside. The Padres need help everywhere except first base.

Paul Byrd
Remember how much Peter Gammons’ whined about how disgraceful it was that A-Rod’s opt out announcement came during Game 4 of the World Series? How come he wasn’t complaining when Paul Byrd’s steroid allegations popped up right before Game 7 of the ALCS? Hmmm. Anywho, Byrd is having a typical Paul Byrd season: lots of hits allowed, not many strikeouts, almost no walks, and oodles of innings eaten. He’s not flashy, but he’s just about league average and will give you everything he has each time out. If nothing else, I trust Byrd more than I do Kei Igawa. Cleveland needs players that can slug more than .350.

Erik Bedard and AJ Burnett are also a possibilities, but at that price you might as well just go ahead and trade for CC, who’s better than either of ‘em. If the Yanks want to go super bargain basement shopping, Victor Santos, Kirk Saarloos, and old friend Randy Keisler are having good seasons in Triple-A, while Brett Tomko and Steve Trachsel were both recently DFA’ed. Livan Hernandez and David Wells are also readily available. Not the most desirable options, I know, but I’d figured they’re at least noteworthy.

For the record, I want the Yanks to stand pat for now. IPK should be back this month, and Giese has shown enough to warrant at least one start. The Yanks could put together a package to acquire CC at any time (Hughes, Cano, Ajax should be plenty), so there’s no need to rush into it and have Shapiro take advantage of obvious desperation. If you’re looking for a real darkhorse, here’s a good one: Al Aceves. Last year he pitched in the Mexican League, roughly equivalent to Triple-A.

What do you guys think, who else could be a reasonable fill in?

Categories : Pitching

156 Comments»

  1. doty25 says:

    how about farnsworth for heilman and make him a starter where he really wants to be… just a thought

    • Mike A. says:

      Aaron Heilman sucks. Always has, always will. Doesn’t have that third (or even second) pitch needed to start.

    • 2708 says:

      I would rather just have Farnsworth than Heilman. At least Farnsworth sucks in the AL not Heilmman who sucks in the NL. Plus,k Heliman would suck as starter.

    • Donald says:

      The problem is that us Yankee fans can deal with the fact we may not make the playoffs or win the World Series. It is OK to lose once and awile. Although I am a true believer in player that have proven themselves already (Santana & CC) I think the Yanks should have dealt the 2 maybes, Kennedy and Hughes for the real deal Santana. Do we all Forget Wilson,Pulispher and Isringhausen?
      One out of three, and Izzy is a closer now not a starter. Take the proven not the probably !!!

  2. mustang says:

    I say go with what you got or one of your cheaper solutions. They already risk the season by starting two rookies in their rotation why stop now and overpay for rental who doesn’t even seem interested in becoming a Yankee.

    • KC says:

      Bad news for the Yankees / Good news for the Indians afte Wang went down and could be lost for the season . About 8 GM’s interested in CC all had heart attacks at the same time .

      Cashman just saw the light at the end of the tunnel suddenly become farther away .

      And the remaining 7 GM’s looking to try to pick up CC now realize now the Yankees will be willing to give up more than before , and because of that now they may have to offer player thought untouchable before just to stay in the market for last years cy youg award winner and current AL Strikout leader.

      In The last 10 games CC’s starts ERA 2.22 Not bad.

      Is it time to break the bank for CC or maybe call up Horne and give him 2 or 3
      starts to see what you have before including him in a deal for pitching help.

      So now would this deal look so bad Hughes / Cano / Francisco Cervelli / Chase Wright / Austin Jackson knowing that the team will most likely get 72 hours to try to work out a contract with CC’s agent .

      I feel the team that does make the trade will sign him prior to the deal being completed reguardless of which team ends up with him.

      • Alan says:

        What? What? What? You’re giving up Hughes, Cano, AND AJax, with MORE? Whatever it is you’re on, pass it over here.

      • Ed says:

        If you were getting Sabathia for 5 years at a discount rate, you only do that trade if you think Hughes is the next Pavano or that this year’s Cano is the real deal.

  3. doty25 says:

    sidney ponson was just released from texas, he was having a good yr, do we take a chance?

  4. nmc says:

    Haha, how about Johan Santana? time for the Mets to rebuild. they need… everything.

  5. Ben K. says:

    Carl Pavano!

    I’m starting my Carl Pavano campaign. Time for him to make good on his $39.95 million contract.

  6. manimal says:

    send tabata somewhere keep Ajax

    • Brandon says:

      Stupid comment of the day.

      • Mike A. says:

        I don’t think so. If I had to trade one at this point, I’d trade Tabata. Of course it would be selling low at this point.

        • Brandon says:

          Why would you give up on a 19 yr. old w/ his upside when you can get CC for a blank check in the offseason ?

          • Mike A. says:

            I agree 100%, I’d prefer to keep both. I was just saying that if a deal was made and one of those two had to be included, I’d rather send Tabata packing.

            • JT says:

              How could you possible suggest sending Hughes, Cano, and Jackson. Thats ridiculous! Ok maybe you didn’t suggest it, but please don’t even utter such nonsense!

          • ChrisS says:

            What the Yankees would be trading for his 3 months of CC and the first crack at signing him to a long term extension. The cost is, at a minimum, the replacement of 2 first round picks and price of those three months and exclusive signing rights.

            How much that is debatable, obviously, but the Yankees aren’t the only ones interested in signing a young, big, lefty power arm that already has some serious hardware. Those exclusive signing rights are worth a lot.

          • Miles Roche says:

            Oh, i love the notion that the Yankees are guaranteed to have a shot at Sabathia in the offseason.

            Ever heard of another team trading for a player and signing him to an extension before he hits the Market???

            Make no mistake about it. In no way am i advocating trading away our top prospects for CC.
            To the contrary. . .

  7. Chris says:

    One thing to consider is that with the double header against the Mets, the Yankees are going to need 6 starting pitchers next week. This is only a short term issue, but it may have longer term implications.

  8. Tripp says:

    Shawn Chacon?

  9. Mike A. says:

    Jaret Wright is a free agent. So is Aaron Small.

  10. Setty says:

    Mike,
    Would you really be OK with giving up Cano, Ajax, AND Hughes? That seems like an insanely hefty price to pay for someone who could spurn us come free agency. I know it’ll probably take a king’s ransom to get CC, but if that’s the package, I say pass. I know that Rich Harden is ridiculously injury prone, but he’s been great since coming off the DL. Any chance we could get him without getting smoked by Billy Beane?

  11. nick blasioli says:

    we are screwed because cashman has the reins…he screwed up last winter and this summer will be no different…the kids are zero wins…and besides rasner is not the answer either…so you have two weak areas in the rotation…its either trade for a quality starter or forget this season altogether…i hope they get a good starter and we can use him next year as well…

    • steve (different one) says:

      you are a bore.

    • jsbrendog says:

      yeah just like every year when something like this happens and people piss and moan and then arron small and shawn chacon and dan giese (AHA!) and all these guys come in and everyone calls them garbage and somehow they win (or eat enough innings to let us win) and it all works out. throw enough crap at the wall and someof it will stick. How about kei igawa for the rally monkey? or how about that knuckleballer form seattle, r.a. dickey? bring back the k-ball

  12. TurnTwo says:

    i’m probably in the minority here, i’m sure. but i think that Cashman should go for Sabathia, and like now.

    this offense is finally hitting its groove, and you’ve got a nice flow going thru the rotation. why mess around with a journeyman like Giese or rush a prospect like McCutcheon or hope Horne or IPK come back and contribute right out of their injuries.

    youve got the resources to make the trade, and extend him if he’s interested in making money.

    Tell Shapiro you’re willing to offer more value if you acquire him for July, and not just at the deadline.

    I’ve felt that the Yankees could afford to let go of Cano if that was the only real piece to the puzzle, but i’ll take a step back from there and look at it from the Indians perspective… they basically need to just get back more than the talent they would get from the 2 draft picks they’d have next June.

    the yankees system cant afford to make that happen? please.

    grow some stones, Cash, and make a deal.

    • ChrisS says:

      Granted, AG could probably replace Cano’s offense thus far this season, but it’s tough to let go of a talented hitter.

      Although, I’d rather let some other fans watch him swing at first pitches from wild pitcher and ground out weakly.

      But in addition to Cano, Shapiro would ask for Hughes as a PTBNL, and Horne/Marquez, plus probably a AAA/AA relief arm (Melancon, Robertson, Cox, etc.).

      It won’t be an easy deal.

      • TurnTwo says:

        at this point, i’m saying you dont even need to trade Cano in a package for CC, if you want to look at it objectively.

        just two players equivalent to better than what theyd get in next year’s draft, plus another player.

        on another thread, someone mentioned for an example, McCutcheon, Tabata, and Betances.

        • Mike A. says:

          The best possible comp picks the Indians could recieve for CC are #16 & 31 overall. Given the way the ’09 draft class is shaping up, we could give them Mitch Hilligoss and George Kontos and it would be an upgrade. Might as well throw in Austin Krum just to make them happy.

          • TurnTwo says:

            but this is what i’m saying. keep it in perspective. its not going to cost what everyone things it would cost upon first impression.

            now if you want to tell me the Indians would take a somewhat lesser package to ship CC to the NL like the Twins just did, well then thats a different story.

            but you cant tell me the Yankees dont have the farm to take a hit on what one this one trade would cost them.

            • TurnTwo says:

              sorry, thinks** it would cost.

            • steve (different one) says:

              i generally agree about the possible cost, but i disagree that the Yankees would be able convince Shapiro to deal Sabathia NOW.

              maybe if the Yankees offered Joba.

              o/w why wouldn’t they hold out and try to get as many teams involved as possible, all the while monitoring their own playoff status?

              it has nothing to do with Cashman’s “stones”. Shapiro isn’t going to deal Sabathia in June.

          • ChrisS says:

            Yeah, just two guys better than draft picks, but only if the Yankees were bidding for CC’s services. That ain’t going to be the case.

            Those exclusive signing rights, and the three months of 08, are worth a whole bunch more that Kontos and Hilligoss or any other marginal minor leaguers.

            Shapiro is going to want oodles of talent for CC because he’s going to get multiple offers.

          • Ed says:

            The other thing to remember about draft picks is the top picks aren’t always the best. Just some random names…

            Pujols was a 13th round pick.
            Uggla 11th round.
            Pettitte 22nd round. Actually, the Yankees didn’t even sign him until after their draft rights expired and he became an amateur free agent.
            Posada 24th round.
            Piazza 62nd round.

            So at the very least, you need to offer either high upside low level players or guys from the higher levels that look like they’re going to be able to hold down a 25 man spot soon.

    • KAnst says:

      For me the problem isnt just letting Cano go, its the package he will want. If it was Cano and some scrubs for CC I would have to consider it, but they are going to want much more in addition to Cano.

      If I am Cashman I call up Beane and Shapiro, I tell Shapiro the package is Horne, Melancon, and one of the A Ballers (Maybe Snyder). I call up Beane and offer the same package but with a lesser third prospect. Stick strong to those offers, if they dont like it fine. I would then call up either Horne or McCutchen and let them fill the 5th starter part until Kennedy or Hughes is healthy

      • KC says:

        Still laughing out lound at the above post .Let me enlighten you yesterday at Cleveland Stadium seating behind home plate was Scouts from 8 different teams to watch CC pitch.

        last year Cy young award winner Leading the AL in strikeouts this year
        last 10 games started 2.22 ERA If he were with the Yankees that would have been 10Wins.

        You think you would get this guy for a bunch of if’s , maybe’s or I don’t knows.

        WOW you must attend alot of minor league games .

        You also must think Cashman is stupid he would never pull the trigger on a 4 or 5 for one without eithier signing the player before completing the trade or at least knowing that he will be able to sign him .

        I think you will have to give up Hughes – for sure I know the Indians are also very interested in Cano / then you would be looking at 2 to 3 minor leaguers that will come out of this pool (McCutcheon, Tabata, Horne, Francisco Cervelli, Chase Wright ,Austin Jackson , Jesus Montero.)

        They perfer Horne who they originally drafted but he opted for school
        Francisco Cervilli and Austin Jackson or Tabatha

        • Count Zero says:

          I see two problems with this:

          1) I don’t think the Indians are ready to throw in the towel at 6 GB in the L column when the mediocre White Sox are in 1st. They want to deal CC after the ASB if they are really out of it.

          2) CC basically refused to negotiate an extension after the season began. So, why are you so sure he will negotiate one now? More likely, CC intends to go on the market and will likely pull down something ridiculous like 7x$20MM. To convince him to take an extension you will almost certainly have to beat that.

          So you’re advocating trading Hughes, Cano and AJax for three months of CC and the opportunity to give CC 7x$22MM or more. This makes absolutely no sense to me. I wouldn’t do that deal even if I thought CC was the next coming of Whitey Ford.

  13. ChrisS says:

    I’m sure Cash’s phone has blowin’ up since Wang went down.

    Without getting into specifics, if you don’t trust the young arms from AAA to fill in this season, you’re almost certainly going have trade one or more for an experienced ML pitcher. I can’t imagine any team giving up a ML arm without getting two minor leaguers back. Outside of the big lefty, any of the pitchers on the block are stop-gaps at best, and are nothing to plan on for next year. Granted, the Yanks have a bunch of, which shifts a bit of the advantage in their favor. But it’ll take a lot more than a Karstens or Wright to land anyone decent.

    So throw McCutchen or Horne in the rotation and play merry-go-round with IPK – unless CC could be had for a reasonable offer (which is up to Cash).

  14. Jeff says:

    I think people are crazy for giving up a Grade A package for a guy that we can get in the off season for free. There’s no way in hell I’m offering up any of our best players for CC. The indians have to take what they can get or risk losing him in the off season for just the draft picks. And if they decide to go that route, then so be it.

    • tommiesmithjohncarlos says:

      But we can’t just wait around and “get [C.C.] in the off season for free”. All-Star caliber pitchers don’t make it to the offseason, they get traded and extended by the teams who trade for them. Almost every single big-name starter who has moved from one team to another this decade (Santana, Beckett, Haren, Schilling , Hudson, Mulder, Bedard, Penny, Clemens, Randy Johnson, Wells, Freddy Garcia, etc.) was acquired by trade and then extended. The true free agents are much fewer and further between (Zito, Pedro, A.J. Burnett), and most of those are cases where the player had questionable production and probably wouldn’t have returned much in trade value (or engineered a one-team only free agency like Clemens and Pettitte) , so the draft pick compensation was the preferred route (or only option). If Sabathia makes it to free agency, he’d be the first true #1 starter to hit the open market since Mike Mussina 8 years ago.

      We must consider the possibility that somebody else will deal for him, and explore the options.

      • steve (different one) says:

        Santana, Beckett, Haren, Schilling , Hudson, Mulder, Bedard, Penny, Clemens, Randy Johnson, Wells, Freddy Garcia, etc.

        but how many of those extensions happened mid-season right after a mid-season trade? none, i think.

        it’s funny you mentioned Johnson, but ignored what happened with the Astros. that’s exactly the situation the Yankees could be looking at.

        i am not saying you are wrong about not waiting around, i am simply saying it is VERY unlikely the Yankees would be able to make a trade and get an extension done before the season was over.

        • tommiesmithjohncarlos says:

          Does it matter whether the extension is signed in July or October? No. And I started from Randy Johnson intentionally… Randy to the Astros was the textbook case of the rental, because everybody and their mother knew there was no way in hell he’d resign with the ‘Stros. Since then, however, the list of “hired guns” has gone down dramatically. And, our situation is miles apart from the Randy to the Astros situation. We wouldn’t be giving up prospects for 3 months of Sabathia, we’d be giving up prospects for 3 months and 5+ years of Sabathia. Everybody knows this, so it’s misleading to indicate otherwise. THERE WAS NO WAY THE ASTROS COULD SIGN RANDY TO A LONG TERM DEAL, AND THERE’S MILLIONS OF WAYS THAT WE CAN SIGN SABATHIA TO A LONG TERM DEAL. If it was truly a 3 month rental and we had no inclination or ability to keep him for ’09 and beyond, this whole thread would be moot because there’s no way Cashman is giving up any talent for a rental, and Shapiro knows this.

          It’s way to big to post here (I’ll email it to whomever is interested), but for shits and giggles, I went through the midseason deals of the past ten years (i.e. post Randy-to-the-Astros). There are lots of “rentals” and they’re easy to spot (like the Yankees trading three scrubs for an Armando Benitez), but here’s the short list of real superstars (or almost stars) at or near their walk years traded midseason for prospects:

          1999 –
          Matt Mantei to D’Backs: Resigned to a long term deal
          Kenny Rogers to Mets: Left for free agency (Rangers)
          Kevin Appier to Athletics: Left for free agency (Mets in 01)

          2000 –
          Curt Schilling to D’Backs: Resigned to a long term deal

          2001 –
          Jason Schmidt to the Giants: Resigned to a long term deal
          Jermaine Dye to Athletics: Resigned to a long term deal (by the A’s!)
          Ugueth Urbina to Red Sox: Left for free agency (Rangers)

          2002 –
          Bartolo Colon to Expos: Retraded for prospects in the offseason
          Raul Mondesi to Yankees: Retraded for prospects the following season
          Cliff Floyd to Red Sox: Left for free agency (Mets)
          Scott Rolen to Cardinals: Resigned to a long term deal
          Placido Polanco to Phillies: Resigned to a long term deal

          2003 –
          Ugueth Urbina to Marlins: Left for free agency (Tigers)
          Shannon Stewart to Twins: Resigned to a long term deal
          Aramis Ramirez to Cubs: Resigned to a long term deal
          Sidney Ponson to Giants: Left for free agency (back to Orioles)

          2004 –
          Freddy Garcia to White Sox: Resigned to a long term deal

          2005 –
          Kyle Farnsworth to Braves: Sorry, couldn’t resist

          2006 –
          Carlos Lee to Rangers: Left for free agency (Astros)
          Bobby Abreu to Yankees: Resigned to a long term deal (sort of)

          2007 –
          Luis Castillo to Mets: Resigned to a long term deal
          Mark Texiera to Braves: ?????????
          Eric Gagne to Red Sox: N/A (he sucks and everyone except the Brewers knew it)

          It’s clear that A) teams who contend and intend to continue to contend and B) teams with the big-budget spending room generally don’t rent players, they acquire them and then extend them to build around. (I could have included offseason deals like Santana and Beckett, but it only reinforces the point…) and teams that C) are small-market clubs or generally talent-poor clubs who find themselves in win-now mode (a phrase that means something in Montreal and means nothing here) come the trading deadline and D) teams that deal for a hot reliever for the stretch run are the teams that truly do “rent” a player.

          That’s not us. We rent gap-fillers, like Glenallen Hill, Sterling Hitchcock, and Raul Mondesi. When we acquire stars, it’s to keep them. Period. Yes, there’s a possibility that Sabathia says F.U. to New York after playing here for three months and refuses to come back, but history says most big-ticket acquisitions don’t do that (unless they get traded to the Marlins or Expos), they tend to stay.

          So, please stop harping on an fairly unlikely worst-case scenario as being the only possible outcome in an effort to use unfounded fears to dictate an ill-informed decision-making process leading to us doing the wrong thing because we believed in shit that wasn’t true. Only our President is allowed to do shit like that…

      • KC says:

        If you are going to settle for just throwing a couple of maybe’s in the rotation to replace your ACE then you just as well make a couple of some deals and pack it in for this year and build for next season.

  15. The Fallen Phoenix says:

    Lowe and Wolf are the most interesting names on that list for me, but I’m not entirely sure what kind of package it would take to land either one.

    In Lowe’s case, if he’s going to be a Type A free agent, you need a package that trumps two first-round draft picks. Granted, Lowe seems like the kind of pitcher who would be attractive to a team with a protected first rounder (top 15), so maybe that would lessen his cost a smudge.

    Just my own honest opinion, but if you’re going to assemble a Type A free agent package, it might be a better move (on the margins) to make a play for a C.C. Sabathia rental, as opposed to Derek Lowe. The difference between the two packages would probably be an additional prospect or two, and I think if the Yankees are serious about pursuing an external option, they would be more willing to part with the extra prospect to get C.C. And the difference between Sabathia and Lowe is huge: with Lowe, the upside is probably a league-average innings eater (he hasn’t been in the AL for a few years now), while Sabathia potentially gives you an ace innings eater.

    I don’t think the Yankees will panic and make a play for Sabathia–I cannot remember the last time Cashman made a panic (trade) move in-season, if he ever has over the last five years. If the Yankees make a play for Sabathia, I would imagine that it would have been something they might have considered even if Wang doesn’t get injured.

    We’ll see what happens. It’s undeniable that the Yankees have a deep enough system to make some sort of move, and one that would protect their top-tier talent (Cano, Hughes, Joba, Montero, Brackman, Jackson, Melancon, *maybe* Betances/McAllister depending on the deal). If the Yankees could nab C.C. for a Tabata/Horne (or Marquez+an additional piece)/(low A talent, think a Laird, Snyder, or Cuello) package, or something similar, I think that’s a reasonable play, and wouldn’t count as selling the farm. Whether such a scenario is even possible is another story, of course.

    • tommiesmithjohncarlos says:

      “don’t think the Yankees will panic and make a play for Sabathia–I cannot remember the last time Cashman made a panic (trade) move in-season, if he ever has over the last five years.”

      You know what else I don’t remember in the last five years? Winning a World Series. Or even having good pitching during the playoffs.

  16. Brad says:

    I would trade Hughes, Tabata and Austin Romine (if the Indians take it), personally. I know Hughes is super-talented, but though I’m not worried about his talent, I’m scared about his injuries. Tabata can still be great, I fully believe that, but i think a corner outfield spot is easier to fill than centerfield, thus keeping A. Jackson. Then we still have Jesus Montero raking away and thus, a a strong catching prospect.

    • Mike A. says:

      Excellent point about keeping Jackson over Tabata because he plays centerfield. That thought never crossed my mind.

    • Jamal G. says:

      I think Phil Hughes’ injuries get overblown. The Yankees were extra cautious with him (properly so) when he had minor ailments like the stubbed toe and the tired shoulder. He had the clean 2006 campaign and suffered the hamstring injury and sprained ankle during the rehab process of said hamstring. I think it us unfair to label Phil Hughes as anything injury wise because he is so young. Honestly when you detail the ailments Hughes has had in his career you really only can talk about the hamstring and ankle strain.

  17. Brad says:

    And obviously, that’s for Santana.

  18. JR_CLT says:

    Not that I think Cashman would actually trade Cano, but the Yanks can not trade away Cano. Cano and Melky are there only everyday starters under the age of 33. We have to be realistic about this roster. It is OLD and getting older by the day. Cano is still playing gold glove 2B and his bat will come around. You can not trade a plus, plus 2B for a guy that you can probably get in 6 months for just $$.

    Just my thoughts.

  19. vinny-b says:

    my comment lacks originality, however: NYY needs to continue to maintain the course. The same course they were on, when they passed on Santana. Continue to develop the pitching, without sacrficing the future, for today. If Wang is out for the year. Well, then this isn’t the year.

  20. E-ROC says:

    Zach Greinke.

    • TurnTwo says:

      if you could spin quantity to the Royals for quality, then i’d take Greinke back, definately.

      • Mike A. says:

        If you replace Wang with Greinke, it would be an upgrade.

        • jsbrendog says:

          seriously??? youre calling greinke better than wang? please tell me im misunderstanding. granted greinke has stuff but his performance isnt there…yet

          • Jamal G. says:

            Zack Greinke has a huge ceiling, if you gave me the choice between he and Wang I would easily choose Mr. Greinke.

          • tommiesmithjohncarlos says:

            Wang’s numbers are better than Grienke’s, but Grienke isn’t far off, and he doesn’t have Wang’s run support. Plus, he’s three years and seven months younger than Wang, with better stuff.

            If you pitched healthy Wang for healthy Grienke straight up to KCR today, they’d shoot you down…

            • Mike A. says:

              CMW: 8.53 Hper9, 3.32 BBper9, 5.16 Kper9

              ZG: 8.61 Hper9, 3.10 BBper9, 6.48 Kper9

              Greinke is younger and cheaper, and he’s only going to get better (theoretically).

      • E-ROC says:

        The Royals will want quality; maybe an MLB ready hitter and….bullpen arms? Maybe the Yanks could have the trade expand to include Soria.

  21. Chris says:

    You forgot to mention Freddy Garcia as an option….

    He’s a free agent, coming off an injury. He may suck, but would only cost money (and probably not that much). The upside is so much higher than any of the other free agents (like Wells) that’s it’s not even worth discussing. Of course, the down side is that you just signed someone to keep Pavano company the rest of the year.

    • Jamal G. says:

      I’ve been keeping an eye on Freddy Garcia the entire year. I am always for signing talented guys who fell to the wayside due to injuries and are trying to make a comeback. You never know, you could always catch lighting in a bottle. I wanted the Yanks to get Mark Prior and they did not. Prior is done for the year but would that have really handcuff the Yankees to do anything else? I wanted Bartolo Colon who currently has a 3:1(K:BB), just over a 2(BB/9) and a 6.83(K/9) which is in line with his career 7.02(K/9). Although Colon has hit 95-MPH multiple times in each start I do not feel in anyway that he will sustain this level of production or anywhere close to it for the rest of the season.

      The thing with Garcia is that although he hit 85-MPH recently in a workout they say he most likely will not be able to return to a Major League mound until the latter dog days of August. He should add a couple ticks to that velocity as he regains arm strength and the temperature rises (if you don’t think temperature matters then check out Mike Mussina’s velocity readings from April and now, he’s been hitting 90-MPH more than a couple times).

      • ChrisS says:

        As an aside, many years ago, some friends and I were in a Seattle area Hooters kicking off a bachelor party. Freddy Garcia and his small entourage of two other people came in for wings and beer after he pitched that day. He spent the rest of the time hanging out with us buying pitchers answering questions, signing autographs, and then we all watched his highlights on Sportscenter.

        It was pretty cool.

  22. Dillon says:

    This is not the time to go crazy for CC and Cash knows this. If he were to give up a package of Hughes, Cano, and AJax he should be fired on the spot. Anyone that would agree to a trade like that needs to understand that this Yankee team is not that good. Sure we can beat the AAA NL. You “go for it” when you’re one player away……we are not. Our Vets have stepped up, finally, but our youngs aren’t ready yet. Melancon, Sanchez, Cox, Hughes, Garcia, Horne, Marquez, all need another year of refinement. Offer a solid package for CC, no more. Hopefullly he goes to the market and we get him next year when our youngs are ready. This year is a mini-transition year for us.

  23. Wiggum Fan says:

    I don’t expect the Yankees to release any injury news today. My guess is they say the swelling is bad and it needs to go down before the MRI or xray take place.

    They’ll place Wang on the 15 day DL just as a precaution – and to open the roster spot.

    Until the extent of the injury is known, the amount of leverage other teams have with their pitchers can not be known.

    The “pop” Wang heard can be anything. It could just be a tweak – hasn’t anyone ever landed wrong on their ankle playing basketball and it hurts like hell then the next day you wake up and it’s sore, two days later it is fine. Or it could be ligament. How many “pops” has Pujols heard in his elbow?

    If it is Lisfranc, that’s obviously worst case. All that was said was “top of foot.” Lisfranc is mid-foot (http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/topic.cfm?topic=A00162). But I don’t think much can be read into that as the Yankees are often coy with extent of injuries.

    Sabathia would never be a rental – any deal for him is going to include a 48 – 72 hour window to sign him or the deal falls through.

    My opinion on pitchers… go with what you have. The schedule is easy for a few weeks and it can be a good barometer to gauge the depth.

    • steve (different one) says:

      Sabathia would never be a rental – any deal for him is going to include a 48 – 72 hour window to sign him or the deal falls through.

      serious question, when is the last time this has happened mid-season?

      i honestly don’t see any scenario where Sabathia agrees to a contract extension mid-season.

      • Count Zero says:

        Right. The only way that happens is if the Yankees flat out make the deal so sweet he has no hope of beating it as a free agent in the off season…which would be stupid.

  24. McCaff says:

    Why would we get rid of Hughes Cano or Ajax for Sabathia and now for Santana in the begginging of the season? I know desperate times call for desperate measures but there is no way i trade any of these guys. Phil is going to be a stud, Ajax is working towards being a stud, and Cano has proven he is one of the best hitters at 2nd base in the game ( aside from this year). If the Yanks trade any of these guys i will be extremely upset and quite frankly pissed off. Why wouldnt a package of Gardner, Horne, IPK work? I would trade IPK since i dont think he will ever be as good as Sabathia, but i think Hughes has the potential to be a number 1 starter for us for a longer time than Sabathia would. Maybe it is my love for our prospects and just prospects in general that is talking, but i say we stay put and let our farm help us out right now.

  25. Dillon says:

    Hughes is currently a pitcher who throws 91mph fastballs, with an average curve, and a below average change. On top of all that he can’t locate. I don’t know if this guy has just been inconsistent because of injuries or has just lost his stuff……or overhyped. Eitherway, he was healthy this year early on and looked pretty bad. I wouldn’t trade him with his value this low, but we need to stop over-rating this kid. Most #1′s have two plus pitches …..he has none.

    • Joey says:

      fastball and curveball I believe are both plus pitches and with time the changeup will be too–but I’m not 100% sure, I’ll let Mike or someone else tell you otherwise

    • nmc says:

      that’s not really fair. first of all, a plethora of sources (BA for example) rated him ridiculously high in terms of stuff.

      and to say he was “healthy” is just being dishonest. we really have no idea how long he was pitching with that broken rib.

  26. Joey says:

    Just thought of this, but the economy in Taiwan must suck today… other than that I have no creative solutions to the Yanks broken Wang problem, just advocate keeping the kids (Hughes and Cano anyway)

  27. Rafi says:

    What about chase wright? I know he has a bad major league history, but he’s embraced who he is(his uni # is now 4) and has been pitching great in trenton

  28. jsbrendog says:

    am i the only one who was pissed the yankees didnt throw money at bartolo colon this offseason?? and now hes in boston and pitching well????

    i screamed at the paper and the tv to just throw away the money and hope u catch lightning in a bottle…i still dont see why not when u have the revenue the yanks do

    • steve (different one) says:

      the reports on Colon were that his medical reports were “a disaster”.

      i am sure the Yankees looked into it. as did almost every other team.

      everyone passed. and the Sox would have also passed if Schilling didn’t get hurt.

      i am all for those low risk signings, but it was widely reported that his arm wasn’t going to hold up.

    • Joey says:

      Jamal in one of the above comments seems to feel the same way you do- “I wanted Bartolo Colon who currently has a 3:1(K:BB), just over a 2(BB/9) and a 6.83(K/9) which is in line with his career 7.02(K/9). Although Colon has hit 95-MPH multiple times in each start I do not feel in anyway that he will sustain this level of production or anywhere close to it for the rest of the season.”

      So I will say the answer is, yes, although I’m not one

    • Jamal G. says:

      You don’t know everything that went down so to be mad at the Yankees isn’t wise. I wanted Colon signed as well but I’m sure the Yankees looked into it adequately and for their reasons and Colon’s reasons a deal was not reached. There was speculation that he felt more comfortable in Boston with fellow Dominican Republic natives David Ortiz, Manny Ramirez, Julio Lugo and Julian Tavarez. I would not doubt that for a second, that plays a huge part in a player’s decision, the same thing happened with Vladimir Guerrero and the Angels, he felt more comfortable with the Anaheim organization due to the plethora of DR players they had on the team.

      I’m sure there were other things that did not allow a deal to take place but like I said before, I am comfortable assuming that the Yankees took a look into it and for whatever reasons did not sign him. Have to remember that these guys are the professionals and have access to much more information than we could even dream of.

  29. nmc says:

    Truth is, the Indians are the ones who should be desperate. The Yankees are in the position of power. Why? Because they are probably the only team that could get it done. The Sox won’t (no need). The Cubs might or might not. truth is, there are only so many teams that can even try to re-sign CC, and therefore Shapiro can’t expect too much, because he literally HAS to deal Sabathia. a developing player is always going to be better than a draft pick, IMO, because known quantity > unknown quantity.

    • Guiseppe Franco says:

      Actually, it would be for two first round draft picks. And GMs these days are relying on the draft more than they have in a long time.

      Those draft picks are more valuable than you think because we’ve witnessed kids rocketing through the minors much faster now than they did many years ago.

      • nmc says:

        that is true, but how many draft picks actually become MLB-talent? at #16 and #41 (as someone I pointed out), its a gamble is all I’m saying.

        (also I know they would get two, I was comparing “a developing player” against a draft pick. not “Cleveland gets one of our players for a draft pick.”)

        just remember, for every Joba Chamberlain, there are 5 Eric Duncans.

  30. BillyBall says:

    You guys that would consider trading Cano, Hughes, and AJax for CC are way too much. Let’s analyze the stupidity for a second. We could have gotten Santana for Kennedy, Melky, and Marquez. Now you want to trade Cano, Hughes, and Ajax for CC! Just wait it out, there will be cheaper options. Possibly a Ben Sheets, Rich Harden,Bronson Arroyo. The only expendables as far as I’m concerned are IPK, Horne, Marquez, Melky, and Maybe, maybe Cano straight up for CC only if we can sign CC!

    • steve (different one) says:

      We could have gotten Santana for Kennedy, Melky, and Marquez.

      holy crap.

    • Ed says:

      We could have gotten Santana for Kennedy, Melky, and Marquez.

      The rumor was the final request from the Twins was that package plus Wang. What you suggested was probably in line with the Yankees starting bid.

  31. Pete says:

    Considering his performance this season, maybe Oswalt could be had for a song…

    ;-)

  32. iYankees says:

    How about Jeff Weaver? The Brewers recently cut him (in AAA)… :)

  33. Wiggum Fan says:

    steve (different one)….
    The in-season trade window that came to mind was Barry Larkin with the Mets a few years ago. Larkin rejected the trade -I am pretty sure that happened in-season.

    A Google search turned up Dotel stopping a trade due to a contract extension demand.

    While not common, it has happened.

    Would the Commissioner’s Office allow for the in-season window for Sabathia to go from the small market Indians to the Yankees? I think if the Yankees made it part of the deal, then he would. That’s just a good way to protect yourself.

    If Sabathia is traded, that team would have to offer him a deal. If he goes to Boston, NYY, the Braves, anyone – and they offer 6 years, $120 million – then he takes it. He’ll have to be careful as he can depress his market value if he turns down that deal because he just took one of the biggest players out of the mix.

    Think ARod opting out and Hank saying he won’t sign him. ARod’s market value decreased immediately. Of course, Hank bid against himself and ARod wound up with a raise – but that’s a story for another day.

    My guess – Sabbathia is traded in July in some foolish deal (like Bedard). Then resigns with Cleveland because he loves it there. I think the Phillies get creative (weak farm system though) as this is the year they make a run (and it’s their best chance).

    • steve (different one) says:

      my point wasn’t whether it would be allowed, my point is that Sabathia won’t agree to an extension mid-season.

      but good call on the Larkin deal, i kindof remember that.

    • nmc says:

      Disagree. I don’t think the deal will be done unless there’s an extension. Otherwise he gets dealt for nothing and hits the jackpot in the offseason.

  34. Jamal G. says:

    Chien-Ming Wang has a partial tear of the Lisc Franc ligament. He will be in a protective boot for a minimum six weeks. Just heard on WFAN.

    • Joey says:

      So he won’t be out all season? I guess thats good news… relatively speaking anyway

      • Joey says:

        Pete Abe: “Imaging studies revealed a mid-foot sprain of the Lisfranc ligament of the right foot and a partial tear of the peroneal longus tendon of the right foot.

        Wang will be on crutches and wear a protective boot for a minimum of six weeks.

        UPDATE, 2:52 p.m.: Wang will be in a protective boot for six weeks. That’s July 28. He would need at least four weeks to get his arm back in shape to pitch – assuming that he is full healed after six weeks.

        That’s Aug. 25 at the earliest.”

      • Randy says:

        its gonna be longer than six weeks because he can’t do anything for that amount of time. big, big blow.

  35. Scott says:

    heard at least 10 weeks

  36. pat says:

    nmc- you are exactly right theres only a few teams that can afford the type of extension cc will want so we are in a position of power.We all have to remember cash hasnt lasted as long as he has by making desperate and rash decisions. It is honestly an excercise in futility to even speculate what hes gonna do when we dont know how much our precious little wang is hurt.

    Personally i say fuck it throw the kids through the fire we can find a servicable 4th or 5th starter in the farm. I say this wholeheartedly believing joba is gonna kill it now that hes freed, moose will continue to amaze us petitte will turn his shit around after the break as he always does and the dazzler will eat up innings while giving us slightly above league average production.

    But maybe im too much of an optimist.

    • nmc says:

      nah, man i’m totally with you. and once Phil is back, and he’s pitching like he did last year, we’re golden. I’m sure Cashman knows this and is saying exactly that to Shapiro – “we don’t need him”. not, we don’t want him, just we don’t need him. if there’s a good offer, I guarantee the Ca$h will take it, but he won’t sell the farm.

  37. Bo says:

    We have to stop bargain basement shopping.

    Great starting pitching wins titles.

    I’ll take the Cy Young winner on my squad anyday.

  38. Double-J says:

    Mike and the Mad Dog say Wang is out for 6 weeks with a torn tendon, will be on crutches and in a soft cast.

  39. Wiggum Fan says:

    Wang out at least 10 weeks (see PeteAbe); screw the FAN (haha).

    Pat… I think you are too much of an optimist

    Rasner will regress towards his mean – a below average starter
    And so will Mussina

    The issue with losing Wang is he is an innings eater. Hard to replace those innings.

  40. mike says:

    And I think I would take CC over Santana anyway, so all things equal if I was forced to give the same package I would take CC -

    Its going to take Cano, Hughes and Melancon – and I would do it. However, earlier I was looking at Peavy, who has a big contract as well.

    Melancon, Hughes and Melky/Ajax and Cano for Peavey and Iguchi?

    • nmc says:

      sorry, mike, but you’re out of your mind. if it takes Hughes, Cano, and Melancon, then Sabathia is not going anywhere. nobody else (maybe the Sox… Ellsbury, Lester and Buchholz) has that kind of talent nor would trade it for 3 mos. of Sabathia.

      I personally think that Hughes for Sabathia is too much.

  41. usty says:

    Well…according to PeteAbe, Wang is out for at least 10 weeks. We have to do something. I think the cost for Sabathia is prohibitive. Hopefully with Pettitte’s usual second half improvement that occurs every year and a half decent replacement, the Yanks can still make a push for the playoffs. But that road definitely just got tougher.

    • Jamal G. says:

      The road did get much tougher but as you said with a second half Andy Pettitte, a 2008 Mike Mussina and Joba Chamberlain’s past two starts can you really say this rotation is decimated? I do believe Darrell Rasner can be a league average starter and to tell you the truth he already is. I have damn good faith in Ian Kennedy to be at the very least a league average #5 starter. The back of the rotation with Rasner and Kennedy to go along with a top three of Pettitte, Mussina and Chamberlain this rotation still can match-up with a lot of the AL playoff contenders.

      • usty says:

        I agree. We’ll just need the offense to provide our pitching with some cushions now and then and not waste 8 inning 2 ER performances from our starters who are supposed to be league average.

      • mike says:

        Im not so sure about your forecast – all of those things have to come true for the Yanks to even compete going forward, and with Rasner 2nd time around the league, and Moose basically unbeaten since May….and Kennedy suddenly regaining his composure down the stretch….

        Its alot to ask from a career minor leaguer, a guy who has looked washed up for the past 2 years and until this May and is a 5 inning guy, and a rookie who looked completely lost during the beginning of this year.

        Your “locks” are a 36 year old guy< and a guy with barely 9 innings as a starter this year…

        Frankl;y Im nervous for this year and next year too – with Hughes unable to go 200 innings next year, Joba in the same boat..

  42. Phil McCracken says:

    I think the Yankees also have to think about next season in regards to Sabathia as well as this season. If they let him get traded to another team, he probably won’t be available in the off season.

    If they were to sign Sabathia as a free agent, they’d lose their first round draft pick. So if they trade for him mid season and sign him to an extension at least they will retain that draft pick and be able to replace whoever they trade. If Ian Kennedy and Austin Jackson are both part of the deal you can at least find a prospect that is just as good as one of them with that first rounder

    If Pettitte and Mussina walk after this year into the sunset, the Yankees will need a reliable arm, and a lefty to lean on, thats CC Sabathia

  43. Bill says:

    We should just go with what we have (i.e. Giese, Kennedy, McCutchen, and Horne). I’d rather see what we have in some of these guys than trade our young talent away for a guy I think we’ll be able to sign in the offseason.

    I really don’t see Sabathia signing an extension regardless of who trades for him. This close to FA why wouldn’t he just wait it out. Anyone that trades for him would at least have to offer him a deal that was equal to Santana’s. And even that might not be enough to get him to sign an extension.

  44. Double-J says:

    Lowe, Maddux, and Wolf I like, Garcia too. Please no Bronson Arroyo, even though Mike Francesca is obsessed with him and acts like he’d be the answer to every problem plaguing the Yankees. No Byrd either.

  45. pete says:

    Angelini, Gardner, McCutchen for Greinke?

    • pete says:

      plus maybe a couple of ml-ready bullpen arms – maybe center a deal around robertson, gardner, angelini, and mccutchen/horne for greinke
      enough guys to probably get it done but not so much that we’d be really hurting in years to come. Maybe give option of Cutch and Horne and choice of 2 of Robertson, Gardner, and Angelini. Kindof a quantity for quality type of deal. I’m sure the Royals would love near mlb-ready contributers like gardner, cutch, horne and robertson, adn throw in a fairly high-ceiling ss and we may have a season (plus greinke’s a young dude w/ a lot of upside.

  46. Alex S says:

    zack grienke, rich harden, or matt cain……………

  47. Mike S says:

    Is it possible to think that even with the injuries to Victor Martinez, Travis Hafner and Fausto Carmona, the Indians can stay in the AL playoff race, whether it be in the Central or the Wild Card? This would probably ensure that C.C. wouldn’t be dealt before the trade deadline and we could have the second best chance at landing him as a free agent, if you consider Cleveland to have the best.

    Also, who’s to say the Indians are interested in an underachieving Robby Cano? They are really loving Jamey Carroll right now, too.

  48. Ant P says:

    what about roy oswalt?

  49. mike pop says:

    Bedard wasnt extended /// i dont think the yanks should make this trade anyway because its not worth it for a guy like CC.. Hughed Cano and Ajax ???? i laugh at that please i wouldnt give them Cano straight up. I keep Cano let CC go wherever maybe we can sign him if he makes it to FA and if not we get a Burnett or Ben Sheets.. Hughes we cannot deal because it is way to early to give up on him.. Cashman is lookin at the future also.. he wont deal hughes for CC u can count on that..

  50. mike pop says:

    I would def look to add Greinke tho because a roatation of Wang Greinke Hughes Joba and pettite or w,.e thats sexy sexy sexy maybe we woulsd signg CC anyways and have CC Wang Greinke Joba and Hughes

  51. mike pop says:

    I would def look to add Greinke tho because a roatation of Wang Greinke Hughes Joba and pettite or w,.e thats sexy sexy sexy maybe we woulsd signg CC anyways and have CC Wang Greinke Joba and Hughes for next year

  52. Joltin' Joe says:

    Where’s Rich Harden in this discussion? The A’s are pretty well off in the arms department, and it would be better to trade for him early rather than later b/c Beane would certainly milk more out of us if we wait until Sabathia may have been traded elsewhere.

    Tabata/Vechionacci/Robertson/Gardner?

  53. alex says:

    SAVE ROBBY! DONT GIVE UP ON HUGHES! AJAX IS THE FUTURE!

  54. Colin B says:

    Are you kidding thats way to much to give up for CC; Hughes, Cano and Jackson. I know he has great numbers now, but he is not in the best shape, being that heavy he is bound to start having medical problems and to give up so much for a rental player. How about trying to get Roy Oswalt from Houston a change of scenery might do him good.

  55. BostonsGittinSmokedTonite says:

    Is this dude out of his mind?? Hughes, Cano and AJax for a guy we can have for FREE next season??? Here’s an idea….SELL!!! For the first time ever….lets be the team that gets a sick haul for aging vets we don’t need anymore. Damon, Abreu, Matsui, Moose, Andy, Farns, Hawkins…..let the bidding begin!! at the same time, forget the CC trades and offer Kennedy, Ohlendorf and Chris Britton for Zach Greinke. Put another package together for Matt Cain, Sanchez or Kuo. Lets get young and build a team to win the next decade…..not the first game of the playoffs only!!

  56. mike pop says:

    Oswalt can veto a deal to the yankees … the yankees is one team he won’t play for // he likes the red sox/// Get Harden or Greinke for a cheaper price than that of CC.. Try to deal guys except for montero ajax hughes betances robertson melancon and cox… horne gardner and marquez ??? keep humberrto too cuz he is filthy

  57. [...] fans are anticipating a trade. At Yankees Chick, Maureen has an open letter to CC Sabathia. At River Ave Blues, Mike has a rundown of some other possibilities, acknowledging that the price for CC may be too [...]

  58. [...] Welcome back, Sidney. The most famous Aruban baseball player, recently released from the Rangers for his bad behavior, will report to Scranton and is now first in line for a rotation spot. Where’s my Aruban judge? I owe him a kick to the head. [...]

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