Rumors, rumors everywhere

Ajax plates seven (again)
Yanks drop a Sunday contest in Minneapolis

I’ll recap this afternoon’s snoozer later on. First, some rumors! Troy Renck in the Denver Post speculates that the Rockies, if the situation is right, could be interested in LaTroy Hawkins (Scroll to the Footnotes section). I say, “Sounds good to me.” Get Dan O’Dowd on the phone.

In C.C. Sabathia news, Ken Rosenthal speculated on TV (video link) that the Indians, if they slip out of contention, could look to deal Sabathia. They would expect a Dan Haren-type package, and the Yanks and Dodgers are expected to be interested. My problem with this is the same issue I had with the Santana deal: I don’t want to see the Yankees give up a bunch of young kids for what amounts to half a season of Sabathia and the exclusive rights to sign him to a long-term deal. The Yanks can land him in November if they want, and there’s no reason now to sell the farm for him.

Ajax plates seven (again)
Yanks drop a Sunday contest in Minneapolis
  • Casper

    Renck’s take on Joba’s transition to the rotation is funny. I suppose it’s folly to expect him to do any actual research or “work”, but it’s disappointing nonetheless.

    • A.D.

      So much wrong with those 4 paragraphs

  • Sciorsci

    Well, there is one reason to trade for him (although I’d hope the package was reasonable): if the Yankees don’t trade for him, there’s a very good chance they will NOT be able to get him in November. Think about it – if someone else trades for him, they’ll then have that exclusive window to negotiate with him. That doesn’t always result in the traded player signing an extension with his new team, but I think it’s safe to say that if Sabathia is traded to a team other than the Yankees, the Yanks’ chances of acquiring him in the offseason are significantly reduced.

    Is it probably best for the Yankees if Sabathia is not traded at all? Yes. But if he’s traded, it might be worth parting with a few prospects to get him now, have him help immediately, and pretty much ensure that he’ll be a Yankee – assuming that’s what the powers-that-be want in the first place.

    • Ben K.

      I thought about that approach as well. It really, of course, depends on the package.

      • TurnTwo

        depends on the package, yes.

        i also think the yankees are a long shot to sign him, anyway. there is just something about Sabathia that makes me think he doesnt really want any part of NY, and if he could get a deal in the ballpark of what the yankees would offer, he’d choose to go elsewhere.

        idk, maybe thats just me, though.

        • TurnTwo

          and if i’m right, then you wonder how muc money you really want to invest in a guy like that, despite his talent.

        • Pete

          Yup, don’t really want someone who doesn’t want to be here. I also get the feeling he’d be happier in a smaller market…

  • Pablo Zevallos

    Dan O’Down. lol I don’t know if that’s a joke but his real name is O’Dowd. ;)

    • Ben K.

      Clearly, it’s a typo.

  • Jamal G.

    If Brian Cashman & Co. were scared of Johan Santana’s aching elbow last season and reported velocity drop not to deal prospects and shell out $140 Million why would they do so for a pitcher with significant weight issues which could translate into an even bleaker future than Santana’s?

    • A.D.

      Plus I think the other major factor is where the Yanks are, right now we’re .500 & 6.5 out, plenty of time for them to catch anyone this season, but there isn’t much reason to trade for CC if theyre not in the thick of it.

      Additionally there’s only going to be a few teams with the prospects & money to go after C.C. and I only think the C.C. is good for the Yanks if it only costs money (and the 1st round draft pick) rather than a bunch of arms, and then the cash

    • Sciorsci

      Is there any evidence to suggest that “weight issues” have any real effect on performance, or that they even really matter at all? David Wells managed to have a long, successful career with “weight issues,” didn’t he? I’m not suggesting that Sabathia doesn’t carry any question marks, just that they might be overblown.

      For the record, I’d be far more concerned with Sabathia’s recent workload than I would be with his expanding waistline.

      • Jamal G.

        You citing one example is actually strengthening my argument, how many other pitchers can you name that has had significant success or sustained their personal level of success throughout their careers whilst being overweight?

        From 1961-1974 Bob Gibson threw anywhere from 175.1IP-314.0IP which included six seasons where he threw 280-300IP+. His last good season was 1973, do you really want be the GM that drafts Rick Porcello and say “Fuck all these innings limits and pitch counts, Bob Gibson increased his innings total from 86 to over 200 in one season and he never broke down!” There are always exceptions to the rules, but that does not make the rule flawed. Bob Gibson and David Wells are freaks of nature, I would not base anything evaluations on their careers.

        • Sciorsci

          I just fail to see what weight has to do with a pitcher’s ability to perform and/or stay healthy. I used David Wells as an example, not because he’s some exception to a bunch of fat pitchers breaking down, but because, by and large, most baseball players keep themselves in reasonably good shape. But for those pitchers who don’t, I don’t see any particular trend toward breakdown or decline.

          There just aren’t a ton of overweight starting pitchers to choose from, so I went with the obvious example – David Wells. And to that end, don’t try to act as if my use of just one example proves your point when you fail to cite even one example of a player breaking down or suffering performance decline due to his weight. As far as I can tell, there is no evidence to suggest that a pitcher’s weight has any effect on his performance.

          There’s very often an unconscious bias against overweight people, and I have very little doubt that it plays a part in people voicing concerns over Sabathia’s so-called weight “issues.” But the only issue is that he’s fat. It’s not a performance concern; he’s been an excellent pitcher for years now. It’s not a stamina concern; he’s failed to make at least 30 starts just once in his career. So what reason does his weight cause any concern at all, other than an abject bias against fat people?

    • Guiseppe Franco

      Totally agree. I don’t see it happening.

      Why would they turn away from the Santana deal only to pull the trigger on a deal for a lesser pitcher and almost the same contract demands (not to mention the much bigger health risk)?

      Unless Hank has both Cashman and Hal at gunpoint, I don’t think this is anything more than Ken Rosenthal putting the Yanks’ name out there since they are always linked to big names before the deadline.

      • A.D.

        Well CC is younger, hasn’t lost velocity, and had a better year than Santana last year, additionally the main alleged players in the package for Santana haven’t been that great this year (Melky, Hughes, IPK/Marquez).

        So thats why this is different than Santana, but I agree that probably shouldn’t happen

    • Rich

      If the Yankees trade for Sabathia, which I highly doubt, it likely means that Hank ordered the deal by fiat. The consequence of such a move would be that Cashman would walk. I trust that Hal would veto such a deal.

      The Yankees are in no position to trade Hughes, A-Jack, Melancon, Montero, etc., which is likely the kind of package that would be requested.

    • mustang

      BINGO !!!!!
      I think Jamal hit the nail on the head.

  • Guiseppe Franco

    I don’t think Sabathia is coming to the Yanks – whether it’s this season or in the offseason.

    Too heavy of a price and too many long term health risks given his weight and wear on that arm.

    They might sign Teixeira over the offseason, but I really don’t think the front office really wants anything to do with Sabathia outside of Hank.

    Thankfully, although Hank may have the biggest mouth, he doesn’t have the only voice.

    • A.D.

      Has Hank commented on C.C. at all?

      • Ben K.

        No. He can’t right now. That’s definitely tampering.

        • A.D.

          That’s what I figured

  • A.D.

    On a thinking out loud idea, Brewers could be a decent trade partner with the Yanks, they have a bunch of young hitting both in the majors (which I assume wouldn’t be available) and in the minors (aside from LaPorta), with Sheets possible departure, the fact their pen & starting rotation isn’t anything special, and the apparent excess hitting would make one think they would consider shipping a bat off for an arm

    throwing it out there

  • Ricochet

    Any club that trades for C.C. will ask for a 72 hours period to sign him to a long term deal and that the deal is contingent on him signing a contract.

    I’m less concerned about pitchers being overweight then I’m with fielder’s.

    There is no doubt that the Yankees will be interested and like the Santana deal it all depends on how much it costs in prospect.

    If the Yanks aren’t in it then they IMO should roll the dice and hope he’s available this winter.

    If they are it’s all about the cost of players and money.

    The Yankees are in the need of a lefty and I would like a rotation of Sabathia, Wang, Pettitte, Joba and Hughes for the 2009 season. I think that rotation is ideal it would feature 2 lefties, 2 young and proven pitchers that are top of the rotation types with 2 very young pitchers with great upside to be #1 and/or #2 type starters.

  • Brandon

    any news on Erick Threets yet ?

  • dan

    I think if the Yankees actually wanted CC now, they would have traded for Santana over the winter. Think about it.

    • Brandon

      yup. I don’t see this happening at all, I mean unless they want a vet life Abreu or someone this ain’t happening.

      • Brandon

        I meant to say “like”

      • KC

        I think the Indians would listen If the Yankees started with Montero / Jackson and one of these Horne / Cervelli / Tabata

        So Abreu who they would keep through the end of the season to replace Haf A** Ner at DH and then Montero / Horne or Jackson and Cervilli or Tabata.

        From what I here If they don’t trade CC they will get 2 addition Draft picks
        what has been said right now looks like the 13 and 31 pick .

        So if you look at what the value of first round picks are now a days you will have to part with at least 3 to 4 top prospects .

        Now to guarentee the signing window that is where your proven Major League or addition top prospect will come into play . Or at least that is the
        way it has worked in the past .

        But if the Yankees called the Indians and said will send you Hughes or Cano and Horne / Cerville / Montero that would most likely be a done deal.

        Then they would package Horne or Montero with Sowers to the Rockies for Garret Atkins .

        They almost had a deal complete for Atkins Adam Miller and Barfield for Atkins but Miller now out for the year and Barfield had surgery yesterday and is out at least 6 weeks so the deals is now dead.

  • NC Saint

    I’m all for throwing money at Sabathia if he makes it to free agency. And I wouldn’t mind paying a small cost in prospects on top of all that money to have him come help us this season. But can anyone think of a package that you would be happy parting with (conisdering all the money that would have to be spent as well) which the Indians might conceivably accept?

    If there were zero other bidders and the Indians felt they had zero chance, so that our package was basically just being weighed against a compensatory draft pick, I could maybe think of a group of prospects that would fit that bill. But that’s not really realistic.

  • McCaff

    Who do you think they will ask for? And would be do it?

  • RollingWave

    No, sooner or later you have to drop the money on something, just because the Yankees are going to try and avoid dumb acquisitions doesn’t mean that they will never take any risks. because if you take no risk, the only team you’ll end up with is the Pittsburgh Pirates with at best an occasional Florida Marlins mixed in.

    I’m all for Sabathia VIA FA as long as he’s not hurt this year. and Texiera too. I would have been for Santana if he had reached FA too. we have huge money comming off the books, outside of Cano / Cabrera none of our guys are young in the everyday lineup, and while the farm looks relatively promising we still need some big guns.

    • Guiseppe Franco

      I don’t think anyone is saying the team should never take any risks in the future or turn themselves into the Pittsburgh Pirates.

      What I’m saying (and I think several others agree) is that a big part of the reason the Yanks are in the position of a team full of aging players and roster inflexibility is due to the front office’s old philosophy of always throwing money at big name players to fix every problem while essentially neglecting the farm and player development.

      The Yankees won during their dynasty because of their depth in the starting rotation (with Mo to close ’em out) and fruitful core of homegrown youth. They can do it again if they make much wiser decisions via the free agent and trade front and continue to stay aggressive on player development and the draft as they have since 2005.

      By no means am I suggesting they should no longer pursue big name free agents or trades, but they should keep it down to a minimum. Spending money for the sake of spending money because they have a lot of contracts coming off the books would be stupid and it means they haven’t learned a damn thing over the past 8 years without a World Series ring.

      This is why I don’t think Sabathia is coming to the Yanks, but Teixeira just might.

      Sabathia is too much of a health risk for so many reasons and pitchers who have demanded and received $100M+ contracts don’t have a very good track record. It remains to be seen what happens with Santana long term – but his successors have all been enormous busts (ie: Hampton, Brown, Zito, etc, etc,).

      • TurnTwo

        “Sabathia is too much of a health risk”

        why? how does one reach that conclusion?

      • Sciorsci

        I’d rather add Sabathia than Teixeira, but that’s just my opinion. Money issues aside, if you have to give a long-term deal to a pitcher, knowing that you’re going to get some past-prime years in order to get the remaining prime years, then it’s easier to work around that aging pitcher in the future and remain somewhat flexible (i.e., Mussina) then it is to work around an aging hitter in the same situation (i.e., Giambi). Not to mention, with the Yankees’ current lineup, adding Teixeira means that Posada has to stay behind the plate for his entire deal (not likely) or DH, where his bat goes from weapon (as a very productive offensive catcher) to a liability (not very productive for an everyday DH). It also means one less position for Jeter to eventually move to (either by moving directly to 1B, or moving to 3B, with A-Rod once again moving – to 1B – to accommodate Jeter).

        All things considered, I think Teixeira would have a greater impact on the Yankees’ ability to remain flexible than Sabathia would.

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  • Manimal

    So my dream of Holiday to the yanks is becoming a reality?!?!?

    • TurnTwo

      where did you get this from?

  • Z1m

    I would look into trading for CC. I would not give up Hughes or Joba but would be willing to give up others. You never know about prospects. If joba and hughes turn out to be as good as advertised to go along with Wang and add CC to that mix you have four quality starters. All somewhat young. With Wang and CC having big game experience. That’s not counting what Petitte can do for the team. Petitte seems to like working out with the younger guys and show them what it will take to be great. That could also be a plus for someone like CC. Maybe he would get himself in better shape.

    The Yankees can talk all they want about letting the young talent develop but CC is already a proven pitcher. During the 90s they had a good mix of young guys (Jeter, Mo, Jorge, Berine and Andy) but sometimes we forget some of the trades/free agent signings. Cone, Jimmy Key, Wells and Clemens to go along with Pauly, Bro and Knoblock all big reasons why they were successful and not home grown talent.

  • Geno

    If we’re going to trade prospects, it should be for other prospects or very young players. Trading prospects for a “negotiation window” with an aging pitcher is crazy. Hughes & Tabata for Justin Upton or Matt Cain? Sure. For CC Sabathia? No thanks.

  • JeterMack Clutch

    Arizona or sf wouldn’t accept that, at least not yet, but i get your point.

    I would also spend for sabathia before teixeira. i don’t know why i am in the minority. by trade, it’d depend on the package