Santana? We don’t need no stinkin’ Santana

Suttle & Almonte going in opposite directions
A quick look at "impact" prospects

Posted by mobile phone:
Short write-up tonight because I don’t feel like typing much on the Blackberry right now…

Andy Pettitte and the Yanks outlasted the rain and the Mets tonight to emerge victorious in Shea Stadium for the second day in a row. Coupled with a Red Sox loss in Houston, the Yanks closed the AL East gap to five. Halfway through the season, the Yanks are seven games over .500 and in the thick of the playoff hunt.

The Yanks were held to just five hits – two of them by the hot-hitting Robinson Cano. While the team struck out 11 times, they drew five walks off Mets pitcher and the three runs proved to be plenty as Andy Pettitte (9-5, 3.98) and three one-hit innings by the pen made it work.

And now some bullets:

-How many of you died with Kyle Farnsworth pitching the eighth in a one-run game? That the Mets had up their middle-of-the-lineup guys just made it worse. While Farnsworth came through in a very high leverage situation, if ever there is a time to go to your best reliever for a two-inning save, that was it.

-Nice Golden Sombrero for Carlos Beltran today.

-Robinson Cano is now at .244. Melky is now at .249. We should have a pool predicting which day Cano passes Cabrera. Could it be today? Tomorrow? Inevitably, it will be soon.

-Another two K’s and a save for Mariano. That guy’s pretty damn good, eh?

Suttle & Almonte going in opposite directions
A quick look at "impact" prospects
  • Ivan

    Here Something you don’t see everyday, The Dodgers won a game without getting a hit. Can you believe that, the Angels threw a no-hitter and lost.

  • Babe’s Ghost

    My favorite was Reye’s comment about Pettite, “He’s slow to home plate,” Reyes said of Pettitte. “He’s like 1.6 to home plate. Even if I don’t get a good jump, I’m still going to make it. He got me there.”

    Talk about giving yourself away as a no class Mutt!

    Imagine if Pettite or Girardi had said, “He’s pretty dumb, he’s like leading the league in being picked off, so it’s really not that hard to fool him. We knew we had a chance and we got him.”

    I hope Jeter saved the game ball and gives it to Willie.

  • Arizona Steve

    I wonder if Johan even makes the NL All-Star team.

  • Arizona Steve

    Also whose for Bernie throwing out the first pitch in the All-Star game. That would be a great moment.

    • LiveFromNewYork

      Never happen.

  • E-ROC

    Yeah, I think Cano will have a better batting average than Cabrera after Sunday’s game.

  • JeffG

    I get the joke but in all seriousness… how much better shape would our team be in right now if we got Santana? Currently we have the Rasner, Geuise, Ponson dilema – got to try to figure out who is worse, and still two of them stays.
    Your boys stunk up the field in Hughes and Kennedy.
    If we had one more good pitcher I think the likelyhood of us making the playoffs would be a lot higher.
    It’s water under the bridge at this point but I wish Cash would figure out that you can’t put all the money into the bats while leaving the rotation for a later date (if it ever comes). Its kind of a waste of 200 million bucks in my eyes.
    Pretty simple I’d like to see us get a top starter in Sabathia so we have a chance at making a run at the Sox.
    It’s getting a little tiring watching guys take the mound that shouldn’t be in the majors, especially when our GM could make a move to grab one of the best in baseball… Even more frustrating is that we’ve already been through this and we still have people saying who needs a stinkin’ front end starter.

    • LiveFromNewYork

      Every single time the Santana thing comes up I want to scream. THAT is what is frustrating. It’s “We should have had Santana.” or “We should have Sabathia.” THAT is frustrating.

      RE: Santana

      Did people NOT read the papers and blogs during that time?

      We do not know WHAT price Johan Santana. We don’t know if it was ever even possible for it to happen and, if so, how many players and millions of dollars it would have cost.

      We don’t know.

      We didn’t know then and we don’t know now.

      REPEAT AFTER ME: We don’t know.

      We think we offered Hughes, Melky and another prospect or Kennedy, Melky and another prospect or even Hughes, Kennedy, Melky and another prospect or Hughes, Melky and 3 or 4 prospects. Or Hughes, Kennedy, Melky, 3 prospects and a Gatorade cooler. Or Hughes, Kennedy, Melky, 3 prospects, 2 coolers and a partridge in a pear tree.

      The RS supposedly offered some similar combination. At the time it was rumored that the Twins wanted Jacoby Ellsbury or Austin Jackson thrown in the deal.

      At some point both the Yankees and Red Sox said no more. I’m not giving away more than this. Take it or leave it.

      That was not what the Twins had in mind. They either wanted the Yankees and Red Sox in a bidding war or they wanted Johan out of the American League.

      Under either scenario, the PRICE WAS RIDICULOUSLY HIGH and neither club ever found out what the Twins’ final demand was. Both clubs walked away when it got to be too rich for their blood. And that’s awfully rich considering the teams we are talking about.

      The Mets got Johan for what appeared to be a song. A song that neither the Yankees nor the Red Sox would have been able to sing because the Twins were not letting it happen.

      We have no idea how decimated our farm team would have been in a Santana trade. That is because whatever we offered isn’t that clear and it’s not clear at what point it would have been good enough for the Twins. And without being able to know what we didn’t give up, there is no way to say “We should have done that.”

      But when Joba was in the rotation, I said “Unless we make him a starter, there is no way to have this bullpen v. rotation debate.” But people who were adamant about him staying in the pen ignored that logic. Because they had a point. Or so they thought. Turns out they did not.

      Unfortunately, we can’t quell the “We should have traded for Santana” talk because people choose to ignore the fact that we don’t have all the data. We can’t say we should have done something we don’t know we wanted to do. Because we don’t have all the data. And without all the data, you can’t say we should have done this.

      Unless the Twins publish exactly what it would have taken to trade Santana to the Yankees, and guarantee that nothing the Red Sox could have done would have trumped that, there is no debate.

      The most important thing in the Santana deal was that he didn’t go to Boston and that happened. His inclusion on the Mets is almost inconsequential.

      But the bottom line is we don’t know what it would have taken. And until we know that (and we’ll NEVER know that), there is no sense in saying we should have. So enough already.

      RE: Sabathia

      Some Yankee fans seem to think that we can just go, “Oh I’ll take HIM.” and it happens. Other clubs know the Yankee / RS rivalry will drive up the price of anyone. And some clubs don’t want either club having HIM. Sometimes HE doesn’t want to be a Yankee or sometimes it’s clear he won’t succeed in New York the way he has succeeded in his market.

      It’s not about “Oh just go get X.” It doesn’t work that way and this go get X mentality has led to too many stupid signings. And, once again, we don’t know what it will take and he’s not even on the market yet.

      And THAT is what is frustrating.

      • Jamal G.

        It is clear that you and I have been drinking the same Kool-Aid. You know how many times I’ve written a post like this (albeit shorter, but every word of your post drove home the point) only for someone else to make another comment completely disregarding what was made clear earlier? It is very, very frustrating.

        There is one thing though, Brian Cashman did make it public a couple times what the Twins wanted for the Yanks (not in great detail). He said there were two deals, one the Twins asked for was Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera and two other Minor League prospects. The second deal if the Yankees did not want to include Hughes was Chien-Ming Wang, Ian Kennedy, Melky Cabrera and a low level Minor League prospect. Again, even my knowing that information you still can’t say “We should have done the deal” because you don’t have any clue who were the two other prospects in the Hughes deal and if you think we should have gone through with the Wang deal you’re just an idiot.

      • JeffG

        We don’t know… we’ll there is one thing I do know and it’s that Cashman hasn’t been able to bring in pitching and that is a problem. If you want to give him a free pass then you and Jamal and whoever else are entitled but I just don’t see it. I think the Sox didn’t want to spend the money and ultimately neither did we. Sure we are all left to speculate what the possible deals could have been but in my mind we have the resources to pull a deal like this.
        Thats my opinion and what I think it boils down to is we are going with the philosophy of building from within at the cost of losing when we don’t have to.
        Cahman’s job is to field a team that could win the WS. He has a lot more to work with that other GMs and he is just not getting the job done – plain and simple.

  • mike pop

    JeffG—forget bout sabathia this season. something we will not and should not do. cost too much in the combination of prospects and money and as for number 1 starter next year we have 2 in wang and joba. hughes too =]… we should make a run at harden or duscherer/rosenthal jus said duscherer might be available/ hard to beleive tho

    • JeffG

      Mike I love the optimism but look where it has got us this season. I’ll listen to the idea that Hughes is going to be an ace next year after I find your crack dealer, wherever he is… jesus man are you kidding me?
      I’m looking very much forward to seeing Joba the starter for a full season and obviously Wang is the man but our best teams always had multiple guns. Adding Sabathia would create something similar. No doubt expensive, and no doubt we’ll have to give up some good talent but if we can afford to make it happen (and we can) then I say pull the trigger and lets start fielding teams that have the arms to get it done.

  • RollingWave

    on the other hand, Santana this year seem to be proving that he is indeed in a steady decline phase. while he’s still good now, the last few yeras of the contract could look real ugly


    I dont see why you CAN’T bring JOBA in like you would a lefty specialist for a hitter or two in between starts “in his 2nd or 3rd day after start!”

    esp if they’re is going to be a six man rotation when Wang comes back and possibilty of Sabathia?

    Tell me anyone….
    why CAN’T you bring JOBA in like you would a lefty specialist for a hitter or two in between starts “in his 2nd or 3rd day after start!”

    • LiveFromNewYork

      Yeah, let’s burn out this kids arm. That’s a GREAT idea.

    • Seven Costanza

      that’s one of the stupidest things i’ve ever heard.

      • Andy in Sunny Daytona

        That’s a great idea Mr. Memo. But first I think the Yanks should give Joba preemptive Tommy John and rotator cuff surgeries.

    • Kelvin

      for the same reason why they don’t do that with other SPs. you don’t want to burn them out, do you?

  • Brett

    Two hard hit balls off Farnsworth – nice plays by Melky and esp. Damon. He got lucky. Still doesn’t make bringing him in right, though I don’t know what other options we have since Veras pitched the 7th. Glad to see Robertson up here.

    • Jamal G.

      The Damion Easley fly-out wasn’t necessarily hard hit, he took a big swing but got it off the end of his bat.

  • Kelvin

    Just want to say something, and, I don’t know if it is just me, but, I don’t understand why some people think that if we got Santana, then, we would get the same production he is giving now. I mean, yeah, he could be giving the same, or even better production, but what are the odds of that happening? If he’s having that kind of year in the NL, what more if hew was pitching in the AL EAST? Sure, having Santana is great, but not for the price (which is prospects plus big money).

    okay, rant end.

  • Paul

    Look, Farnesworth is sure scarey if you’re a Yankee fan, but Torre screwed up his head enough, so bringing in Rivera for 2 innings is not the right move at this time of the season.

  • Realist

    The Santana debate has to end sometime….if he pitched in the AL East you could probably add at least another run to his ERA, which would make it 4.00 plus. Not really “Ace” like is it? Nor worth whatever the “rumored” hot stove league reports told us last winter. As LFNY said earlier…we really don’t know what the price was but obviously too high then and proving to be the correct choice now.

    5 games out, 7 games over .500 with a horrible start and devastating injuries(one’s that most teams couldn’t come back from)……..not bad at all.

  • Jamal G.

    Can you imagine what a story it will be if both Andy Pettitte and Mike Mussina win 20-games apiece this year? At maximum he would have three more starts before the All-Star break (7/3 vs. BOS, 7/8 vs. TB, 7/13 @ TOR) if Joe Girardi and Dave Eiland decide to keep him on regular rest and pitch him in the first game of the two game series with the Rays instead of the last game of said series (there is a day off between the end of BOS series and start of TB series). I expect they would do this because if Pettitte were to start the first game of the TB series he would then be able to pitch the final game before the ASB (7/13 @ TOR) which would give him a nice five days of rest before the unofficial start of the second half. If Girardi and Eiland decide not to star Pettitte in the first game of the TB series and instead start him on the second game then that would be his last game of the first half thus giving him eight days off from 7/9-7/18 until his next start at home versus the Oakland Athletics.

    To keep Pettitte on his regular four days of rest and start him in Game 1 of the Tampa Bay series then that means that Sidney Ponson’s spot in the rotation will be skipped one turn through the order and I don’t see the harm in that (maybe actually that will benefit the Yankees).

  • Manimal

    I give you credit for typing all that on a blackberry, I know how annoying it is.

    Anyways Santana is a second half player BUT that doesnt mean he should be 7-7 in the first half, obviously santana is not being him self, whether its his velocity, change in leagues, or new team(If you would call the mets a team).

    I think so far, it is arguable that Santana has produced more than IPK, Hughes and Melky. Combined.

    • Jon

      Yes, because the trade can be properly evaluated after 81 games.

      • Manimal

        I never evaluated the trade, I just said Santana has outperformed the prospects that were mentioned in the rumors.