What about Jason in ’09?

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I solemnly swear not to gloat about the misfortune of others

Is it too early to think about 2009? It seems as though, in Yankee-land, it is not.

Toward the end of Jayson Stark’s latest (and voluminous) Rumblings & Grumblings, the ESPN columnist drops in a note about Jason Giambi and the Yankees:

Price of the Giambino: Two months ago, we would have set the odds of Jason Giambi’s returning to the Bronx next year at approximately, well, zero. But we’re hearing the Yankees have sent signals to Giambi that, assuming he stays healthy and reasonably productive, they would be amenable to bringing him back next year. There’s zilch chance they’ll pick up his $22 million option. But a modest one-year offer, on top of his $5 million buyout, apparently is no longer out of the question. Who’d have thunk it?

Who’d have thunk it? Well, outside of our own Jamal, approximately no one. We knew Giambi wasn’t going to be terrible all season; we didn’t realize he would start putting up MVP-caliber numbers over a significant stretch of the season.

Now, I don’t need to rehash Giambi’s numbers since he broke out of his slump. I’ve done that recently here and, in a more in-depth post here this week. Suffice it to say that Jason Giambi is having a stretch right now that ranks among his best in pinstripes.

So what are the Yankees to do next year and beyond? The Yanks hold a $20 million option or a $5 million buyout for Giambi. There’s almost no chance that the Yanks would opt to exercise that option. Stark’s sources speculate that the Yankees would be more inclined to exercise that buy out and sign Giambi to a much lower one-year deal.

There are of course a few factors involved in this decision. One of those factors lies with Jason Giambi. If Jason continues to mash this year, the odds are pretty good that he could land a deal longer than one year. He’ll have to decide if he wants to stick around New York or go for a longer contract. I highly doubt the Yanks would be willing to do more than a year-to-year situation with Giambi. Maybe they would give him a two-year deal with a lower salary but some high incentives.

The other factor, of course, lies with the Yankees. If Jason Giambi can be a productive offensive player, the Yankees will definitely look to bring him back. He hasn’t been terrible in the field this year, and he more than makes up for it at the plate. Furthermore, the Yanks seem to believe that Hideki Matsui is no longer as durable as he once was and are hoping to prolong Jorge Posada‘s career by spelling him behind the plate as often as possible. Giambi could do a bit of 1B/DH platooning next year.

But if the Yankees want to go young — or younger — and take a long, hard look at Mark Teixeira in the off-season, they probably wouldn’t opt to retain Giambi and Matsui. Despite the age difference, I’d almost take Giambi over Matsui with that lineup. Of course, economics play into it too. If the Yanks are going to be paying Giambi $5 million not to renew his contract, they’ll probably want some of that money to go to on-field production and would thus be more willing to bring him back for the right price.

In the end, of course, despite Stark’s assertions, it’s way too early to be making this decision. We still have over half the season to go, and questions of frailty surround Jason Giambi. It’s interesting to think about it, and if Giambi stays healthy and keeps producing, the Yanks will have to make a decision this October that probably doesn’t have a right or wrong answer.

DotF Lite: Where's Mike?
I solemnly swear not to gloat about the misfortune of others
  • Vinnie

    I think the Yankees would opt to keep Matsui over Giambi for a number of reasons. Giambi has the cloud from steroids hanging over his head, something the Yankees are trying their best to distance themselves from. Not to mention, not many teams would choose to invest in a 38 year old DH/1B with a history of injuries and rock star life style over a quiet steady run producer who brings in millions of dollars from Japan in advertising and sponsorships. That’s why it seems more likely that Matsui will stay a Yankee long after Giambi’s gone.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      I’m going to make a rather bold statement right now. I don’t think the Yankees will be too keen to bring back Hideki Matsui after this contract is up following the 2009 season.

      • r.w.g.

        I agree. Jason’s power is really just devastating when he’s locked in. He gets game-changing hits off good pitching.

      • http://yankeesfuture.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

        I’m not sure he makes it to 09

      • mustang

        That’s not a bold statement at all and I think that would be the right move to make.

    • B

      I think its a little premature to be talking about Jasons return to the bronx in 09.

      First I think we have to see if he can keep it going for a full season?? He hasn’t been able to stay healthy or produce like this for a full season since his 2nd or 3rd year here.

      Second, I believe there will be a young switch-hitting 1B free agent this offseason in Teixeira.

      Third, this guy may not be a FA but could be available. Maybe look into bringing a Prince to the king city!

      Plus I think they need to bring back Abreu first for a few more years to keep the spot warm for when Jackson and Tabata are ready to come up. Obviously Jackson is a lot closer than Tabata.

    • Slugger27

      I’m with you vinnie… yankees fans forget how consistent and reliable matsui is. aside from the ’06 injury… he’s been the most consistent, productive hitter on our team the last 5 years outside jeter and arod. so he missed 2 games with a sore knee… big deal? damon missed 20 last year with various soreness and hes hittin 330. i dont know about bringin him back after 09… but tradin in the offseason i think is a mistake, given a typical matsui year that hes had the last 5 to project for 09… 13M is market value if not a bargain

  • Adrian-Retire21

    No more HGH guys.I love Pettitte but it’s time to go.He like Giambi have been in the DL the past few years.If he was a good hitter as a DH then maybe.But playing first base everyday he can’t.Take the draft pick and get younger.Like Mussina he’s having a god year but let’s see how longthey can keep it up.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      The space bar is your friend. :)

      • steve (different one)

        the delete key would be a better friend to the rest of us.

        • mustang

          You have jokes.

  • r.w.g.

    If Jason stays healthy I think it’s worth pursuing.

    If he has a really big year, it might be smart to just pick up the option and then let him walk next year. Really the option is for 15 million, because you’re paying him anyway. Unless Jason Giambi is going to sign for around 5-6 million base (on top of his buyout — which no decent agent in America will allow Jason to consider in his new contract), I don’t really see where a possible savings of a few million is worth the risk of him hitting the open market.

    • r.w.g.

      *that should read “…you’re paying him the buyout anyway.”

  • dan

    For some reason, I just don’t see them going after Teixeira in the off-season. I don’t know if it’s the right move or not to sign him (depends on the money, obviously), but I think Cashman will stay away in the end. Don’t get me wrong, Cashman will look into signing him for some amount of money, I just think the amount he wants will be more than Cashman is willing to offer.

    In other words: Giambi will be back on a one-year deal. And one of Juan Miranda, Eric Duncan, Chris Malec, or Nick Johnson will be the starting first baseman on opening day 2010.

    • r.w.g.

      I think you’re probably right about Teixiera. I think the Yankees like him a lot but they also realize the bidding has potential to get pretty silly.

      He has a great situation in Atlanta, and teams are probably going to have really trump Atlanta’s offer to get him.

      I think things could change significant if Boston gets involved with Tex, though. And I think Boston will.

  • Baseballnation

    Truth, Matsui proably has more werand tear on his body then that for Giambi who for all accounts is in som of the best shape of his life. I think from here on out durability comes into question for both, but as long as there healthy, Giambi brings something that Matsui doesn’t and that’s game changing power. Looup and down the yanke lineup o anging stars…Him and Rodriguez are the only true power hitters in the lineup…on the team. If the yankees opt for the buyout and do sign him to a 1 year…high incentive deal…he mst likely could bring two compensation picks in ’10

  • Phil McCracken

    I’d bring back Giambi if he continues to stay healthy and is able to play the field. One thing I think is bad for this team is to get loaded up on DHs who can’t play positions due to their health or inability to play defense (Duncan).

    Teixeira is going to cost a ton, probably 7-8 years and well over 100M. I’d rather dump that money into veteran starting pitching, especially left handers. Sabathia would be my #1 target.

    We still need some right handed bats though.

  • JD

    is everyone takin into acct giambi’s career stats as a DH? and how he admits he doesnt like to DH? his stats this year at DH are as good as at 1B, but it’s a rather short sample size. i’d prefer matsui, just because they’re competin for the DH spot essentially, and matsui is good at DHing. i just dont think u can assume big G will have a big year at DH, when he hasnt had success there before. either u take him at 1B, or u dont.

    • JeterMack Clutch

      It has been well documented that when giambi was DHing full-time, he was usually injured (c-shots, foot problems, etc.)

  • Ricochet

    There is no way that Giambi returns to the Yankees with a 1 year deal. His agent will say if you want him back for you 1 year then don’t opt out and if you want him back then it’s going to take a 2 year $25m deal to get it done.

    • Casper

      would he get 2 years $25 mill with another team?

  • http://knickerbockerchatter.blogspot.com/ Bruno

    Tex will not be coming to The Bronx. The Yanks are more likely to sign/trade for a catcher and move Jorge to 1B, in my opinion. Deciding between Matsui’s steadiness and Giambi’s power potential for DH is a tough choice though. Do the Yanks get compensation if they buyout Giambi? If not, then maybe it’s better to buy him out and sign him to a cheaper contract and trade Matsui for something equal to the draft picks. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

  • http://VJ Vinoo Jankie

    I think if you have to choose between Giambi and Matsui. i would choose Giambi. He is a middle of the order hitter, who when not hitting is still drawing walks. Meanwhile Matsui seems to have become a singles hitter with little power. You bring Giambi has DH and sign Teixeira for the long term.

  • Tripp

    What about Bob Abreu? Where does he fit into Yankees’ plans next year? He could be a pretty productive RF/DH/1B candidate also. And he stays healthy.

  • Mark B

    Bobby Abreu at 1B? You must be living in fantasy land….he’s never played 1B in his 12 year career. I can’t see him at DH either in ’09 with Matsui under contract for one more year.

    Unless Abreu goes on a torrid hitting streak later this year, I just don’t see how/why the Yanks will re-sign him later this off-season.

    • TurnTwo

      unfortunately, there arent many options to replace Bobby in RF next year, without a mlb-ready prospect in teh system just yet (without pushing someone’s development) and the FA market for RFswill get you bubkis.

      i agree, i dont think the yankees would want to commit $10-13 million over multiple years to keep Bobby around, but they might not have much of a choice, either, unless they take a look at the trade market, too.

      • http://2009 Haggs

        Unrealistic for a number of reasons, but what the hell….

        The Yankees have loads of young pitchers, the Mets have zero.

        In a lineup of stars like the Yanks have, Beltran would be very comfortable. Much more comforatable than he is in Queens. He’s expensive at $18.5 for the next 3 years, but hey, this is the Yanks we’re talking about. With Abreu, Damon and Matsui all likely gone in the next 2 years, there will be vacanicies should one of the kids prove to be MLB ready.

        The Mets are going nowhere, so they may look to unload him this winter, especially if somebody takes over for Omar.

        • TurnTwo

          the Mets and Yankees will never make a meaningful trade, ever.

        • TurnTwo

          however, if they did, I guess perhaps Beltran wouldnt be the worst choice to take over.

          • LiveFromNewYork

            I’d take David Wright or no one. And you know we’re not getting Wright.

  • Steve

    “If Jason continues to mash this year, the odds are pretty that he could land a deal longer than one year. He’ll have to decide if he wants to stick around New York or go for a longer contract.”

    Don’t be so sure of that. Most of the Mitchell report guys who were unsigned have remained unsigned. And Giambi has been a poster boy for steriods for a LONG time. If BARRY BONDS can’t get a job, I can’t see Giambi drawing multi year offers.

    Yanks can let him go free agent, gauge what the interest is and then resign him for one year with options.

    • Chris

      Most of the Mitchell report guys who were unsigned are pretty bad now, which is why they are unsigned. And Barry has a history of being a malcontent and a distraction.

    • mustang

      I disagree.
      Giambi is one of the few who has come clean as much as he can on the riods issue.
      I think he seen in a different light.
      The bigger question, if he keeps this up, is whether people feel that he is back on something. I would not sign him.

      • LiveFromNewYork

        Exactly. Jason manned up and told the truth.

        • Steve

          Really? He told the truth? When was this?

  • David Brown

    I would NOT resign Giambi, players who have big years in their free agent walk year quite often revert to previous medocre performances (See Adrian Beltre). I honestly do not think that they will be going after Mark Teixiera either. One reason is Boras. He will demand opt out clauses in ANY contract that he signs, and if the Steinbrenners would NOT give it to Arod, they will NOT give it to Teixiera (Teixiera is a very good player, but not in Arod’s class). Boras is also not happy with the Yankees because of how bad he looked over Arod (Opting out in the World Series, and then resigning with the Yankees). I think that the Yankees are lucky that Gerrit Cole is a Yankee fan, otherwise, Boras would have him go to UCLA, to seek revenge over Arod, that is the kind of character Boras is. Another reason, is simply this: The Yankees are really stressing the draft, and do not want to lose their first round pick (They let Vizciano go, just so they could have a sandwich pick between the first and second round (I think that this will also apply to CC Sabbathia as well)). The final reason, is Montero, the will likely move him to first base, in the near future (Unless Posada ends up there in 2010), so you have a cost effective option at that position.
    In conclusion, I do not expect to see Giambi (As well as Teixiera or Sabbathia) in the Bronx in 2010

  • Samples

    What we’re all witnessing with Giambi right now is fools gold. I’m very surprised he has turned it on the way he has and have to give some props. However, until it lasts another month, I’m considering this the same as Tino’s hot flash of production a few years ago. Funny how he’s not hurt this year when a contract is on the line. My personal opinion is that Cash / Girardi were purposely playing him everyday in an attempt to hurt him and collect on insurance. It backfired, but in a good way. OK, so that’s probably not true, but I would applaud it if that was the case.

    Ben, Giambi has been atrocious defensively. No other word to describe it. There are so many bad plays that don’t show up as an E in the scorecard that have cost runs. That little exaggerated scoop thing he does on bounced throws drives me crazy. Do you ever see an infielder whip his glove at a bouncing ball like how Giambi does? Why would a first baseman whip it up like that on a low throw?

    This team NEEDS to get younger and better defensively. If he’s able to turn this season into a decent deal for himself next year, I sincerely hope its not in NY. Please Cash, let this long 7 year contract end.

    • Chris

      I think you should go back and look at Giambi’s time as a Yankee. If his 7 year contract, he’s been injured 2 of those years. In the other 5 years he’s had an OBP > 400, SLG > 500, and > 30 HR. This year isn’t a flash in the pan or a fluke. It’s what you’ll get from Giambi if he stays healthy.

      • steve (different one)

        agreed, the comparison with Tino isn’t applicable at all. Giambi, when healthy, is a Hall of Fame level hitter (note, i am not saying Giambi should go into the Hall of Fame).

        if he is healthy, there is absolutely nothing flukey about this. he is just doing what he has been doing for about a decade.

    • Slugger27

      amen samples… the contract has been a nightmare for 6 years and 6 weeks of good hitting doesnt change that

  • Chris

    If the season were to end today, I think the Yankees should pick up Giambi’s option. He’s had a 400 OBP and 500 SLG every year as a Yankee that he’s been healthy – this year isn’t that much of a fluke. You can’t easily replace those kinds of numbers. If they decline his option and sign him to a 1 year deal, maybe they save $6M. That’s nothing – about what they pay Hawkins plus Ensberg.

  • felixpanther

    any chance Giambi can be class A FA? I will take 2 draft pick anytime over a 38 year old DH

    • steve (different one)

      he might be, but then the Yankees run the risk of him accepting arbitration.

      i am not sure they would do that.

      if he accepts arbitration, he would likely get a very large payout AND the $5M buyout.

  • steve (different one)

    you guys are also ignoring the part of the equation where Matsui might bring back something shiny in a trade. he’s a solid bat on a 1 year contract.

    to me, that’s the only way i would bring back Giambi – if they find a real 1Bman and just sign Jason to DH. that would mean moving Matsui.

    • TurnTwo

      completely agree. and when you take into consideration the FA market for OFs going into 2009, Matsui could potentially be the best bat available.

      im of the mindset that one of Damon or Matsui will not be on this team next season. Whether they bring back Giambi, or give Posada more time at DH, having both of them kind of hurts the flexibility on the bench and cramps Cashman’s payroll plan.

      i agree with most here that if he can continue to remain healthy and continue at a reasonably productive pace the rest of the season (and thats a big IF right now to me), then id bring Giambi back just as the full time DH.

      you need a regular 1B next season.

  • JRVJ

    I think that the decision to resign Jason depens on a number of other things.

    RIGHT now, assuming Sabathia and Teixeira have not been signed (since their FA signing changes things), I’d say that:

    1. The Yankees resign Mussina and Pettitte, pretty much for the same amount for Moose and with some sort of discount from Pettitte ($16MM is too much for Pettitte’s level of production);

    2. The Yankees resign Giambi, be it by picking up his option or by signing him for a smaller amount ($17MM for one year is not that bad a deal – Abreu is currently playing for $16MM , which was the option that the Yanks picked up – please note that it is $17MM for one year, since $5MM is a sunk-cost, no matter what).

    3. The Yankees offer arbitration to Abreu, but not a long term deal. If Abreu takes it, fine.

    If he doesn’t, the Yanks get a 1st round pick (to replace whichever picks they lose from signing FAs) plus a sandwich pick. The Yanks should replace Abreu with a league average RFer (think a Cliff Floyd type – or going back, a Rondell White) for one year. Another option is to bring up Austin Jackson, though he probably is not ready for early 2009 (a 3rd option is to move Jeter to RF and get a slick fielding SS, but I’m not sure if the Yanks are willing to do that).

    (And yes, I realize that Jackson is not really a good enough hitter to play RF. But the Yanks would be saving $16MM that could be used for other things).

    4. Let Pavano ($10MM), Farns ($5MM) and Hawkins ($3.5MM) go.

    Assuming all of the above, the Yanks could still sign Sabathia or Tex (if the Yanks keep Giambi they obviously won’t sign both) and lower their payroll a little.

    Personally, I think the Yanks need Sabathia more than Tex (another poster mentioned adroitly that the Yankees could end up moving Posada to 1B).

    • TurnTwo

      personally, i dont think there is any way you ask Pettitte to take a pay cut.

      i do think you can get Moose to go year to year, because he doesnt want to move anyway.

      • steve (different one)

        personally, i dont think there is any way you ask Pettitte to take a pay cut.

        depends how he finishes the season. if he has an ERA around 4.25, the Yankees will be looking at him more as a #3 starter than a #2 starter, and they may offer him the corresponding pay for that level of production. maybe $12M or $13M.

        and i think he would take it.

        he has said that one of the main reasons he would come back is because he is dying to play in the new stadium.

        that tells me he’ll probably pitch in NY or retire.

        considering how upright both sides were in their negotiations this offseason, i think the Yankees have earned back Andy’s loyalty. the way his contract was handled this off-season was very classy by both sides. Andy had a player’s option, he absolutely could have declined it and gotten a 2-3 year deal from someone. he would have been the best starting pitcher on the FA market.

        but both sides honored the handshake agreement from the previous offseason. the Yankees gave him as much time as he needed to decide if he wanted to pitch, and Andy agreed to the same terms as the previous season.

        if Andy doesn’t have as good of a season as 2007, i think he would be amenable to taking a paycut and not consider it a slap in the face.

        that’s just my opinion though. i could easily be way off base.

    • Reggie C

      How many Major League games has Posada started at 1B ??

      Why do people think that a move to 1B is easy for an OF or CA?? Its not!

      This is not a controversial topic. Its pretty clear cut. Get younger. Period. Get the best FAs under the age of 30. Period.

      With the dough coming off the books after 2008 is wrapped up , the Yanks are gonna be in need give A-Rod a younger, power hitter to help him mash. Texeira.

      Yanks are gonna be in need of at least 1 veteran when Moose and Pettite finish their 1 year deals. I’d be okay if we re-signed Pettite , but on a championship ballclub he’s not a 2 guy. We need Sabathia.

      • TurnTwo

        i agree. i would go and get Tex to make a lethal 3/4 combo with ARod, but people will argue he’s not worth the $$, like they are the ones spending it out of their own pocket.

        but, i wouldnt be surprised to see Jorge slide to 1B on occasion. he has a history as an infielder, so its not like trying to transition Mike Piazza. and while playing there, he hasnt looked like an utter disgrace, which is a bonus.

        • JeterMack Clutch

          buy giambi and hope he is there if teixeira is not

          “best case” scenario; i guess we could sign both Giambino and Teixeira as FAs, but where would that leave matsui? RF? Trade? probably not, if giambi is bought out, chances are he is not coming back, eh?

  • Matt M.

    giambi will hit well enough to get three years froma team that makes terrible baseball decisions a la Baltimore,Toronto, Seattle go there and then fade into oblivion.

    Honestly, id just pick up his option. it is NOT outrageous (sadly). thats the going rate for Free Agents.

    $22mill. tack off 5 for the buyout and its $17 million for one year.
    pettitte is making 16.
    andruw jones is making 18
    torri hunter is making 18
    vernon wells is making 18
    alfonso soriano is making 17.

    giambi is currently making $17,142,857 according to


    so while his option of 22 million SEEMS outrageous. in actuality, it is in line with the way the FA market has developed. — Thank Cashman now for having the foresight to build the farm —

    Just pick up the option, its easy, its clean, its probably what giambi would get on the open market, and it comes with the security of just being a ONE year deal. if they mess around and buy him out, he’s most definately going to want two years, for little to roughly the same rate.

    • Matt M.
    • TurnTwo

      Giambi came here in the first place because he claimed he always wanted to play in NY, right? i mean, the money was here, so he came, but we can take him at face value.

      and money aside, he felt that NY was the best place for him to play to get a chance at winning a WS.

      personally, i dont see Giambi as the type of guy at this stage who will go from the bright lights of NY and fade away with an awful team in Toronto, or Seattle, or Baltimore, etc.

      if given a deal relative to market value, i think he would prefer to stay in NY. but its not yet known what that market value will really be yet.

      so like Ben said, theres still a long time to go before we have to worry about that just yet.

    • Reggie C

      And what happens after that 2009? What 1B options are there after that??

      C’mon. Look ahead!!

      • Chris

        You can sign Teixiera. There’s no reason you can’t have Giambi and Teixiera on the same team. And one year for him to get acclimated to NY could help keep the pressure off Tex.

      • steve (different one)

        Nick the Stick!

        seriously though, we have no idea who might be available that far off. someone you never even thought of might be available in a trade.

        just because there aren’t a lot of FA options in 2009 doesn’t mean we HAVE to sign Mark Teixeira.

        also, i am pretty sure if the Yankees were paying Teixeira $20M to do what he is doing this season, the same exact people would be on here calling Cashman an idiot for committing so much money to this “bum”.

  • Baseballnation

    Since Moose has gone through a Jamie Moyer Transformation (as Hank would say) i think it’s very plausible the yankees go year to year with Moose, Giambi on the other hand might not get the kind of years or money that has been thrown around in this thread, and considering his production this year, just picking up his option for one more year is probably better for the team long term as oppose to signing Tex for 7 or 8. For Abreu I think the Yankees should collect th picks as Abreu is aging and right now is really just a gap hitter.

    Austin Jakson Can play right field and if Melky continues to struggle offensively wise, we might be seeing a Damon/Gardner/Jackson tandem by summer time ’09.

    Still the yankees desperately need another power bat

    • whozat

      “Austin Jakson Can play right field”

      Oh, really? A guy who’s played primarily CF, and has just now started to hit at AA…and you’re ready to install him full-time in RF in the bigs next season? What’s your backup plan for when he fails?

    • Old Ranger

      A-Jax in right field? Are you kidding me? He is just a kid playing at AA.
      Start with Brett-LF, Justin-CF and Melky-RF, a lot of speed and defence…but very little Pop. Would this pass muster with the fans? The whole philosophy of management would have to change from power/(avg.)defence, to speed/(very good)defence…could be done! Would it ever be done…I doubt it, but would be fun watching a fast OF driving hitters and pitchers kazzy.
      Don’t get all bent out of shape people, just me…I’ve always liked speed and defence, no mater what sport.

  • jsbrendog

    giambi’s gonna feel regret for what he’s put the organization through and, as a standup guy, resign for less because he wants to prove to the world that he’s not a unjury prone asshole who went to the highest bidder and lost it when he stopped juicing and his newfound success is not a fluke.

    we can hope at least.

    just say no to texeira ’09. start making buttons

  • Baseballnation

    Don’t insinuate he will fail although I will say he is something of a streaky hitter…but A full season in AA this year and half a season at AAA next season would put him up in that mid season transition to the bigs as I mentioned…I wouldn’t call that being rushed. And what does him being a center fielder have to do with anything? Because of that your saying he can’t play right field? His arm will at the very least be average in rf while Gardner, who’s a faster and better fielder than Jackson, could slip into center if Melky is not the answer.

    FYI: Jackson has played some right field in the lower level minors…Cf to right is not like saying 1B to rf…

  • Axl

    I’ve longed for the day the Yankees got rid of Jason Giambi. I was telling my friends that this off season when he’s off the team…it’s going to make me just as happy as if the Yankees signed a big star. It makes our club that much better.
    He’s in his walk year…that’s why he’s performing. Just like everybody else does. We have to stop falling for these things. Jaret Wright pitches good one year and we sign him…that was a great movie. Latroy Hawkins? Same thing. It’s just gone on for too long…we have to start using our heads here.
    Giambi has got to go…we’ll take advantage of his walk year statistics this year…and then drop him hard. It’s the smartest thing to do. He’s been pretty terrible the last few years…in fact…he hasn’t been good since like 2003. He’s a liability on all accounts.
    I don’t really care to get Texeira but he’ll probably cost a lot less and he’s much much better.
    Why can’t we trade for a Mark Teahan or Casey Blake? Doesn’t Blake also play 1B? Or we can try to grab somebody else. I HATE it when the Yankeews sign ex Red Sox players but Millar always played well at Yankee Stadium…and he’s MUCH cheaper. We need to start thinking smarter…and not just make a great team on paper…but a great solid team all around. We’ve had that best paper team for a while now…with nothing to show for it.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Signing Kevin Millar over Jason Giambi is not at all thinking smarter. Considering that money is clearly no obstacle to the Yanks, why wouldn’t the team just go for the best available person for the bill? I don’t even need to get into the stats to show that Millar is significantly worse than Giambi. The same goes for Casey Blake, and Mark Teahen has put together one good season. He’s very average otherwise.

  • David Brown

    I am shocked how many people want to spend money on the likes of Teixeira. I have mentioned about Beltre being a flop, and there are countless other free agents that were bombs that were signed. Instead of looking at the obvious mistakes like Pavano, a better way of approaching this, is to look at the players the YANKEES signed that were actually BETTER than Jason Giambi. You start off with four Hall Of Fames (Hunter, Jackson, Gossage, and Winfield), then you have Moose, Matsui, and Jimmy Key (The most successful players they acquired were in trades (Arod, O’Neill, Tino, Brocius, Nelson, Abreu, Wettland etc), and the Farm (Mariano, Petitte, Bernie, Jeter, Posada, Wang, Munson etc)). So avoiding free agents (Except your own (See 2006)) is good strategy.
    The new approach that the Yankees are taking with the farm is the way to gon(Melancon, Robertson, Cox, MCcutcheon, McAllister, Bentaces, Brackman, Pope, Kenndy for the mound (I did not even include Cole, Marshall or other prospects from this draft because they are not signed). I am sure you will get some major leagers out of that bunch. And you still have Hughes,Wang, and Mariano thru 2010. This is the approach they take out USC or Miami (Football), get the best prospects available, and load up, and have top notch replacements when players leave.

  • Axl

    On another note:

    I don’t like any of the other options available in 09 for right field…so I guess we’re goign to have to resign Bobby Abreu. Hopefully it’s not a ridiculous amount of years. 1 or 2 years maybe…but he’ll want more…and if that’s the case…goodbye Bobby. Raul Ibanez is good…but he’s 37 years old. A 1 year deal wouldn’t be bad. Milton Bradley will get some hype because of the year he’s having…but we don’t need anymore drama…and I’m sure those numbers won’t be repeated. He’s also injured a lot.
    Some free agents I would accept in right field:
    Raul Ibanez – 1 year deal
    Maybe Willy Mo Pena – 1 year deal
    Casey Blake again could play Right Field and move around to 1B or anywhere if one of the young guys wants to come up and give it a shot too.

    What do you think?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Why the love for Casey Blake? He’s older and far worse than Bobby Abreu. Again, money’s not an issue so why look for cheap, crappy “replacements” if the Yanks can afford to pay for much better players.

  • Axl

    Well the “big money” guys haven’t worked for us at all yet. We haven’t won since we’ve had the scrappy players. In fact, look at the past few WS champions…a lot of scrappy players on each team. We don’t have a single scrappy player on our team. All big names. Melky Cabrera could be considered scrappy…but he’s more inconsistent than ever…and hardly clutch.
    No love for Casey Blake. I was just saying that he’s a scrappy hard nosed player who can play a bunch of positions and could fill the void. I never said Bobby Abreu’s salary would be the problem…it’s the amount of yeasr he wants…I dont like that idea. It just so happens the cheap guys are also the guys you can get for a low amount of years. I don’t want Abreu for another 4 years. I’m sorry. Rather have Blake for 1 year and bring up some of the farm the following year. Makes sense to me.

  • Axl

    By the way, Casey Blake and Bobby Abreu are the same age (35).

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Abreu’s 34 and nearly a year younger than Casey Blake.

  • Axl

    They will both be 35 during the off season. At 35, a few months between the ages are irrelevant.

    Scott Broscious, Paul O’Neill, Chuck Knoblauch, Tino Martinez, etc before…all scrappy hard nosed players.

    Then from the other teams the past few years – Bill Mueller, Kevin Youkellis, Trot Nixon, Dustin Pedroia, Mike Lowell – Red Sox (2004 and 2007)
    David Eckstein, Scott Rolen, Jim Edmonds – Cardnials (2006)
    AJ Pierzinski, Scott Podsednik, Aaron Rowand – White Sox (2005)
    David Eckstein, Adam Kennedy, Scott Speizio, Tim Salmon, Darin Erstad, Chone Figgins – Angels (2002)

    – The preceding were the scrappy players on their respectful teams.

    We need players like this on our team. No more big money guys who go home after a loss and don’t care as much because they’re still getting their millions.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      We don’t need scrappy players on our team. We need players who are going to put up good numbers. Scott Brosius, for all the love, wasn’t a very great hitter. David Eckstein is a below-average player. The list goes on, but this is somethin go an old debate.

    • Reggie C

      Replying to AXL’s 1:07pm post:

      Youkilis and Lowell are scrappy players?? Are you serious? C’mon man , look at their numbers. Youk is an all-around hitter, and now that he’s got the power numbers up , he’s even more dangerous. lowell is a power hitter from day 1 he became a red sox.

      Yanks need to keep the power in that offense going. Matsui is aging. Abreu is only holding that spot till A-Jax arrives. Giambi’s gonna be 38 yr old. We need Cano to re-gain his form for next season. We need Melky to develop into a more consistent offensive threat.

      Try telling the fans that this lineup doesn’t need Teixeira.

  • Axl

    We haven’t won since we’ve been splurging millions on big stars or trading for them. It’s a fact.

    Giambi, Abreu, Arod, Matsui, Contreras, Vasquez, Randy Johnson, Pavano, Sheffield, etc. Not one Championship.

    In 2000 it worked with David Justice…last time it’s worked. And we already had a solid team with scrappy players on it.

    I think you need a solid distribution of both kinds. Not just youth and veterans…but big names and scrappy guys as well.

    Not to mention decent pitching.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      If you’re replying to another comment, can you please use the “reply to this comment” function? That’s why it’s there.

      Anyway, the Yankees won not because of the scrappy players but in spite of them. In fact, David Justice disproves your theory. Just like how David Eckstein won two World Series rings because there were 24 better players on the roster, the Yanks won because they had players who produced.

      Comparing Paul O’Neill to Casey Blake because you think they’re scrappy is an insult to Paul O’Neill.

      • Axl

        So if I call Casey Blake scrappy…and Paul O’Neill scrappy..I’m automatically saying they were equally as good as one another?

        So if I say one player is good…and another is good…your philosophy states that it means they’re equally as good as one another…

        I mean I don’t get what you’re saying here…

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          What I’m saying is that scrappy players don’t win championships. Good hitters and good pitchers (something missing from the teams you’ve named) win championships.

          • Axl

            We’ve had the best hitting for a number of years now and haven’t made it out of the first round. Our pitching has been bad but not the worst..and with the best offense in the game…you’d think we’d get by the first round in at least 1 of the series’ the past few years…especially with your philosophy…wouldn’t you think?

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

              Because the playoffs – especially five-game sets – are a total crapshoot. You gotta get there first, and a team full of good players will get there first, not a team of scrappy players.

              • Axl

                I agree, the post season is a crapshoot. Especially the first round. In a best of 5 series you face a teams ace and #2 guy at least twice…that has been a problem as well. We’ve faced the team with the best pitching in the first round the past 3 years as well.

            • Axl

              Especially when your pitching staff includes a 19 game winner, the best #2 in the history of the post season (2nd most post season wins), and a guy with 260 career wins in the back end of your rotation…
              And you only win one game…and not even one thrown by any of them?

              I find it hard agreeing with your reasoning.

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

                In case you missed it, Chien-Ming Wang was utterly terrible against Cleveland. That’s why they lost.

                And it’s not just my reasoning; it’s accepted reasoning among baseball analysts. Feel free to disagree though. I have nothing left to say on this issue.

  • Axl

    Look what happened with our team in the 2006 playoffs when we had every guy in our line up was a guy who put up “good numbers”. What happened? Did we even make it out of the first round? Did we even score a lot of runs? Only in the first game…that was it.

    • Old Ranger

      As per Ben K.; Crapshoot! The best teams ever to play the game can and will get beat by a nobody once or twice…but not over the long haul. See… Yanks v. Pit back a long time ago.


  • Baseballnation

    Fact, the yankees need to go youth and they need a power bat…I’d rather go Austin Jackson in center and melky packaged in a deal for a reasonable right fielder like Xavier nady or something rather than take on Abrue for anythiny more than two plus years he will be demanding. Personally I value the compensation picks for him. The most best and most viable options of the ’09 outfield class is Juan Rivera (30), and Vladimir Guerrero (33) – $15MM club option for ’09 with a $3MM buyout…so much for outfield options

    • Axl

      Vlads $15MM option not getting picked up has about as good a chance as me starting on opening day for the Yankees next year.

      • Axl

        And I can’t remember the last time Juan Rivera played in a game

      • Axl

        Especially since Torii Hunter is making more than that each year…

  • Baseballnation

    So the dilema in this whole numbers game becomes future versus present, because at the current the yankees are to old and past there prime (arod not included) to make any serious run at a title? If this is true then you put up the farm system for quick rentals like years past? Not a viable option in my mind…So as I said, look for a Damon/Gardner/Jackson tandem by mid season ’09 with Giambi and Posada sharing some DH time…Matsui is left as the odd man out as he should and that still leaves a void of a power bat in the lineup thats needed. We have pitching depth…So expect a Betances/Melky/Robertson deal or something of that magnitude with an Ian Kennedy mixed in somewhere…

    • Axl

      I really hope Giambi isn’t sharing time with any Yankee next year at all. He’s really not good.
      With Giambi, Mussina, Farnsworth and the rest of the guys off the books…it leaves almost $90MM to spend on some decent guys. We haven’t won with Giambi and Mussina yet…what makes anybody think we’re going to win with them when they’re even older? It’s time to shake a leg…switch it up a bit.
      I like the idea of grabbing Xavier Nady. For either 1B or RF. Pitching is the hardest thing to decifer because it seems like any pitcher we ever get…regardless of their potential or past…ends up being a worst case scenario guy for us.
      Whether it be a free agent signing (Pavano, Wright), trade (Randy Johnson, Kevin Brown, Javier Vasquez) or even our own farm system thus far (Hughes, Kennedy)…it just never seems to work out for us with pitching. Just doesn’t make sense. I can’t explain it.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

        You’re not shooting very high. Xavier Nady isn’t a very good baseball player, no matter what his numbers so far this season look like. Replacing Giambi with Nady makes the Yankees noticeably worse.

        They won’t even be in a spot to win or lose in October if they put together a team relying on the Nady’s and Casey Blake’s of the world.

    • Old Ranger

      Heck! I like my stupid idea of having Brett, Justin and melky in the outfield next year, better then that. A-Jax is a kid…learning to hit in AA. Next year; he will be a kid…learning to hit in AA, maybe AAA. He will be 23 in 2010, let’s give him a chance to grow into the job before he is moved into it.
      Optimistically speaking, I would expect him to make the big move sometime in 2010. There is a great proclivity for people wanting players to move up to fast. Let’s face it, A-Jax has a great up side (from what I have seen) but, he isn’t ready yet…maybe in 2010. 27/08?

  • Baseballnation

    Abreu’s numbers have been in the decline the last two seasons. Expect to continue as he’ll be a 35 year old rf next season with little power and a drastically declining walk rate? Nady is raking this year and looking like he’s coming into his own self. He can play right field with some 1b next season to spell Giambi, and ease the transition of Ajax whenever he comes up…flyer sure, but nady will be cheaper than abreu and will probably outproduce him, while playing at the very least average outfield which is better than what abreu provides.

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  • the most felonious vocalist in the wide world of showbusiness

    This one really brought out the idiots, huh?