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Follow us on TwitterOpen Thread: The Yankees we have, not the Yankees we want
Posted by: Ben K. in Open ThreadWith apologies to Donald Rumsfeld for the headline…
Let’s assume for a minute something rather unlikely: The Yankees will make no trades this year prior to the deadline. Therefore, the team as it is now is the team we will have after the season ends whether that be in September or October.
As the Yankees stand now, the 2008 edition will look vastly different from the one on the field come Opening Day 2009. Of the high-price free agents hitting the market this winter, the Yanks have their fare share of them. Kyle Farnsworth, Mike Mussina, Bobby Abreu, Jason Giambi, Andy Pettitte and LaTroy Hawkins (if he makes it that long) will all be off the books.
But besides the money, the Yankees will have roster spots to fill. The losses of Abreu and Giambi will create big holes in the middle of the lineup. The pending free agencies of Moose and Pettitte would leave the Yanks without two pitching stalwarts, and even Kyle Farnsworth has turned himself into a useful part this year.
Tonight, as we suffer through yet another evening with no Yankee game, let’s turn our thoughts to 2009. What should the Yankees do?
They could — and probably will — work out a reduced-cost extension with Jason Giambi. They owe him $5 million if they don’t pick up his $22 million option next year. But Mark Teixeira’s impending free agency looms large over any discussion of first base. And somehow the Yanks will have to fill Bobby Abreu’s outfield spot. Austin Jackson isn’t ready yet.
Andy Pettitte will come back if he wants to come back, and I have to believe that he’ll want to be there to open the new Yankee Stadium after his long tenure in pinstripes. But what about Mussina? A few months’ shy of 40, he’s pitching his way toward a multi-year deal if he wants it. Should the Yanks — with young pitching galore — wave good bye to Mussina? Or should they subscribe to the philosophy that one can never have too much pitching?
And then there are the free agents. CC Sabathia and Ben Sheets are both hitting the market at the same time. The lefty — healthier, better — will want Johan Santana money while Sheets is an injury risk but won’t expect a six- or seven-year deal. A.J. Burnett is also an intriguing name.
So have some fun with this, and try to be realistic. Who do you want to see in the Bronx next year? What moves should the Yanks make? Who should they pursue in free agency and which of their own players should they eschew signing to new deals? And just what do you do with the enigma that is Kyle Farnsworth?
One thing is for sure, I DONT want a repeat of this season where we went into the season relying so heavily on a couple of young starting pitchers who so far have 0 wins combined this season. At the least the Yankees should have a solid front 4 with Wang and Joba already signed and many options available to them for the other 2 spots. Hughes should be penciled in as the 5th starter next year at best and it wont be a crime if he starts off next season at AAA. Heck I would re-sign Pettitte and Moose AND sign another starter (not necessarily Sabathia or Sheets due to the money) or trade for one and not even have Hughes or IPK penciled in for the rotation at the start of next season.
To me regardless of what they do with the offense as long as their rotation is solid and the young arms in the bullpen continue to emerge the offense will take care of itself. Maintaining this solid bullpen and getting back to having a solid rotation like they had from 98-99 and even as recently as 2003 is the most important factor in the design of the 2009 Yankees and beyond….
The Farnsworth question is the easiest. The team has so many promising prospects who could relieve that it makes no sense to spend money on Farnsworth based on this one good year. I actually kind of like Farnsworth, but the Yanks have more than enough young pitching talent to build a bullpen without spending big on it. Given all the money coming off the books I’d say the best free agent signing would be C.C. over Tex. First off pitching wins championships, and as much as it seems that the team needs another big bat I’m pretty confident in what Damon, Jeter, Cano, Arod, Giambi (on a short and cheap contract) could do. C.C. is young and awesome, and paired with Joba, Wang, and Pettite would give us one of the best staffs in the league. Looking a couple of years down the line it seems to me like we’re going to want to have Montero at first (cause I don’t think he’s gonna stay a catcher given that the organization also has Romine) and signing Tex to a long contract clogs up the position. As much as I love Mussina, and as well as he’s pitching, I think you got to let him walk unless he’s willing to take a one year deal.
I agree, and I apologize if this is somewhere else in the comments, but I’d rather give CC 5 years and 100 million than 7 for 120. that is, I’d rather up the price for the next few years (how about 3 years at 22 million per?) than have an albatross of a contract.
I have personally always been a big fan of Ben Sheets (when healthy… obviously). It is probably naive to think he has turned a corner as far as injuries go if he makes it through the rest of this season, but the idea of paying all that money and all those years to someone as large as Sabathia has to make anyone a little gun shy (even though I heard for a big man he tries to keep himself in the best condition).
where can i find a list of free agents?
also, according to MLBTR, the washburn deal is picking up steam and melky/gardner have been mentioned
The team could be:
LF - Damon
SS - Jeter
RF - Burrell
3B - A-Rod
1B - Teixeira
DH - Giambi
C - Posada
2B - Cano
CF - Melky
I think I’d be fine with this.
I’d lose Farnsworth in the offseason. As long as the team can continue to bring in their own young arms (from the minors), they’ll be fine. Actually, I think the team should try and churn out as many BP arms as they can on the cheap, then just trade them down the road. The rotation will be harder to figure out.
SP - CC
SP - Joba
SP - Pettitte
SP - Moose
SP - Hughes
It’s tough because Kennedy and Ben Sheets deserve looks. I’d take Moose back, but if he loses anymore heat on his fastball, it could be a wrap for him.
Oh yea, let’s not forget about Wang, haha. It’s going to be tough, but as you said, I think the Yanks will go with the “you can never have too much pitching” concept.
lmao chien ming whooooo?
Wang?
As long as Moose’s fastball maintains its movement and he can keep the hook where he wants it he can still pitch. So what if he loses a couple mph.
Yanks need to make a trade to make next years lineup work.
Pithcing
1) Sabathia - he’s late twenties lefty (yanks need a lefty) his arm will hold up and form a dynamic frontline with…
2) Joba Chamberlain - he hasn’t disappointed yet. he’s only getting better.
3) Wang - sounds MUCH better as a three.
4) Pettitte - AWESOME four.
5) Whoever - my money is on Hughes, but Horne, Kennedy, McCutchen, could audition.
Lineup
1) Damon (DH) - he could play some outfield too, but this will do him some good.
2) Jeter (SS) - just need to be solid in the field do his thing. Consistent.
3) Can0 (2B) - when he hits in the second half, he would be a huge cog in the middle of the lineup. We bet that next year he grows up.
4) A-Rod - Consistent, will be good in this lineup. keep compiling numbers and hustle and play solid third. Not dangerous, law of averages says he’ll hit in the post season and have a moment… but he’s not clutch.
5) Texeria (1B) - haven’t seen him hit much, but he fields, he’s young, hes a lefty and he has good at-bats. he’s in.
6) Bay (RF) - in a trade with the Pirates the Yankees surprise and get this year’s center fielder and next years right.
7) Molina/Posade (C) - lets hope Posada gets surgery so he can get right for next year or they are gonna have to make a deal next year at the deadline.
8 and 9) Matsui/Gardner/ Damon/ Cabrera.. eventually Jackson and don’t sleep on Tabata (CF/LF) - If the yanks hold on to all of them this will be a platoon.
Bullpen
fuentes (LHRP) - in a trade
Melancon (RHRP) - takes the place of Farnsworth
Robertson
Ramirez
Veres
Rivera
in the Wings - Ohlendorf, Cox, and others
THIS TEAM CAN HAPPEN WITH THE PARTS AND CAP SPACE LEAVE ENOUGH TALENT TO MANAUVER and WIN THE FIRST IN A LINE OF CHAMPIONSHIPS
Ok I know a ton of money is coming off the books but lets not get ahead of ourself…I’m surprised so many people see us getting both Sabathia and Texeria. We’ve got about 85 million coming off the books this year. If we sign Tex and CC thats like 40 million for 2 players. We also need a right fielder and more pitchers. This is going to be ridiculously expensive. Especisally if we bring back Andy and Moose. Also I’m curious as how you see us getting Jason Bay? Who are we trading? Same question for Fuentes. Who are we trading for these players? This team and roster you came up with sounds great but I’d like to see how we’ll get them all…REALISTICALLY!
Haha, didn’t get that last one in in time
When was the last time the Yankees had a good defensive first basemen that could hit. They usually always have 2, one who hits but cant field and one who can field but not hit. Texiera is a perfect match for the yankees. Sign Giambi and keep Matsui both get injuries and it would be smart to keep both. Bring back Moose since he seems to have reinvented himself. Pettite Maybe. Drop Rasner/Ponson and pick up CC Sabathia. That means that the yankees will have a total of 3 Aces on their team with Phil Hughes in the bullpen who is a potential Ace in a couple of years, he has some learning to do. IPK can go bye-bye. Bullpen seems fine as it is.
I think alot will be answered in reguards to the offseason after the deadline, with who we will part with EHEM IPK. and even farnsy. and what if they make an out of no where trade for big tex?
Phil is a no go for the BP. Start him in AAA this year and then winter league. Next year, start him in AAA and let him get ready for the big show…there are always injuries to pitchers. Also, he needs to work on his pitches for command/control…with all that work, he should be ready by ST or thereafter. 27/08??
No, I am wasting Hughes in AAA for a whole year. Look was he bad sure, but it was only for a couple of starts and if he was healthy would probably improve as the season went along. I think Hughes struggles were both about growning pains and bad luck.
You worry about the innings but if he’s healthy I can really see Hughes next season breaking out.
what about hughes breaking in in the bullpen .a plan similar to the successful one we saw with joba
Because he is a lot different pitcher then Joba, and needs the work on his pitches for command/control. He will do that in winter and AAA, should be ok by ST 2009…maybe even this year, one never knows. 27/08??
That is what I said. With the work this year and winter league, he should be ready by ST. And I am very old school …I don’t worry about innings, I worry about the quality of the innings pitched. 27/08??
I know it would mean a lot of OFs on the roster, but if the Bo Sox don’t keep Manny, the Yanks should offer him a 2 or 3 year deal to come mash in the Bronx. Obviously he’s a pain in the neck at times, but I think he would love to play in New York.
CC and Teixeira should be priorities. I’m okay living with Melky in CF. He can’t hit but if the rest of the lineup is made up of guys like A-Rod, Jeter, Cano, (hopefully) Teixeira, Damon, etc., that’s not a big concern.
please tell me you just didnt say manny..
i would avoid C.C. his career ERA at yankee stadium i think is thru the roof.
good thing he won’t be pitching in this yankee stadium then.
i don’t think Sabathia has pitched in the Bronx in about 4 years.
“i would avoid C.C. his career ERA at yankee stadium i think is thru the roof” isn’t a logical argument: It’s not necessarily the stadium that’s his problem, but rather the fact that he doesn’t pitch well against the Yankees — and that would hardly be a factor if he is a Yankee.
For that matter, even if it’s the stadium itself, the stadium won’t be here next year.
same dimensions though…not arguing just saying
pitching pitching pitching. and i’d be willing to sacrifice some offense to get younger/improve the defense at first base and the outfield. how is texeira (spelling) in the field? can burrell play right field any better than abreu? am i the only one who thinks sizemore will age quickly?
I would go this year “With what brung us”. Things are starting to come together a bit.
Next year is a little different; Big G; maybe (not sold on it) with a lesser contract, but then what about Matsui…Matsui is one hell of a DH. Farnsy ok, if a good contract…keep him. Bobby, let him go…bad defence. Bring back Andy and Moose, Andy yes Moose (getting old is a real Bi#$h) no…we need the rotation spot for CC and others. The Hawk, Wilson, maybe even Melky can and should be replaced.
Next year, I believe the team will try an improve the defence; 1st base, OF mainly. With a lighter hitting team (unless they can find a good hitter that can also play good D) I think that Very Good Pitching and very Good defence can do the job. Unless they think Melky is just having “One of those Years”, blow him off. There is a lot to like about Melkys’ play, but if this is what he is…bye, bye.
A rotation of CMW, Joba, CC, Andy and one of many would be a great start…if healthy. How say you? 27/08??
There is a lot to like about Melkys’ play
Like when he waved to the Bleacher Creature and forgot to field the ball. I love that youthful
idiocyenthusiasm.Give the guy a break come on. Even if he does suck.
Hi Ben…
Yes, I do like Melky. He is still only a kid and started off the year very good, but something went very wrong…I don’t know what it was but it hurt his (dare I say it) confidence or something, and just snowballed. Watching him at bat is like seeing a deer in the headlights…no clue. One can see how hard he is trying…maybe that’s the trouble, trying to hard. 27/08??
To be honest, I think it’s just that he isn’t very good. Except for a brief stint at AAA, he never put up very good offensive numbers in the Minors, and his career MiLB OBP of .344 just isn’t very good. The power’s never been there either. What he showed in April was that any player can have a good month. Just ask Shane Spencer and Benny Agbayani about that.
Chris Shelton.
remember him lol
Can’t argue with what you have said, but players do get a clue and take off…sometimes. Maybe he will, remember he is still a kid (I said that before) 24 years old? He still has room to grow…one can hope! Oh, well I still like Brett. I know, don’t tell me…I pick lossers. He is still a lot better then he has shown thus far. 27/08??
A little late with this. 27/08??
tex and cc def, the question is what to do about the of spot, I’m wary of resigning abreu, who is out there for that of spot?
Milton Bradley. Do it.
dude…that just might do it injury risk but…if hes willing to sign for a reasonable price. maybe low cost and extra years for security would do it. i mean a one or two year deal is ideal but i doubt hed do it
maybe if joe girardi swears he wont pull or push or shove or hold him back out of the way on an arguing call at first base.
I’d do that.
Milton Bradley’s got mad game.
I like bring in Milton. With guys like Damon, Jeter, Matsui…I think his rants can be kept under control. Ialso think we need an upgrade in CF. Mark Kotsay?? In the days of the dynasty, the Yankees had 4 OFs, usually a platoon in LF, let’s return to those days: Damon, Melky, Kotsay & Bradley. Justin Christian or Shelly Duncan is a 5th OFer off the bench to PH or PR.
No on Tex!!!! He’s gonna want 7/140 and compared to other 1st baseman in the league that is way too much (llok at Puljos- $13.5 M)
No on CC and Sheets…long term/high dollar deals for pitchers do not work, does the name Barry Zito ring a bell? Carl Pavano? etc…go for a back of the rotation guy ala Ryan Dempster or Jarred Washburn via trade or Moose if he is willing to take 2/30% career caught stealing marks and a platoon with Molina will help the defense & pitching.
anyone but burrell
Burrell is better player than what people think and he’s slightly underrated. He walks, he will have a high OBP, and of course power. Now he sucks a fielder and I would take Bradley over him if he was healthy but I wouldn’t mind Burrell as my DH hitter at a reasonable price.
but how would an everyday fielder respond to the DH style of play? thats a factor you MUST consider
I say go after CC. My problem with Tex is he is 29 and probably wants a 10 yr deal since he’s never had a big money deal. If he will ake 6 yrs 20 mil I say sign him. I think you say goodbye to Giambi, Farnsworth and Bobby. You either bring back Pettitte or Moose, not both.
I’d sign on for that. 27/08??
if pettitte/moose will take one or two year deals each sign both but this still leaves a gaping hole in our of
off season:
Sheets on a 4 year deal.
return Pettitte
Fuentes or a comparable bullpen lefty
Milton Bradley or Rocco Baldelli in RF
I need to set the record straight here.
Rocco Baldelli may never play Major League Baseball again. He has a mitochondrial issue that impacts his health, and it’s a long-term, serious and uncurable condition. Counting on him to be a starting outfielder is not a good baseball move.
He’s close to coming back as a DH though. He’s been playing in rehab games for the last month or so, exclusively as a DH. I’m not saying you should pencil him in for 162 starts in RF next year, but he’s battling his back.
Baldelli had superstar written all over him.
Rocco Baldelli is a huge risk but he is making a comeback. If I was the yankees, I would take a chance on if the circumstances as right. I would put him RF because I just don’t know if his body can hold up running for balls in CF. And if A-Jax is ready you him in CF, and potentially you have a OF with great range and cover tons of ground.
Ive advocated Baldelli signing as a Dotel/Leiber deal, undermarket with a reasonable option if he makes it back - no risk, no brainer.
i have to take a chance on baldelli - an incentive laden contract with team options. too much talent there to ignore
Agreed. Bringing in Baldelli on a low-risk, minor league deal and giving him a fast track and every possible opportunity to win a job is a super smart decision that can pay big rewards.
Signing Baldelli to a contract of any significance and handing him a job and expecting him to step right in and play everyday is a recipe for disaster.
I am not spending money on Relievers period.
Exactly. They’re so damn volatile, why invest big bucks in them? Go with the cheap kids who have good stuff and throw strikes.