Posada on the shelf, could be out for the year

The Jorge Posada problem
Game 99: Johnny's back, but it's probably too soon

With his catching (and throwing) abilities severley compromised, Jorge Posada may be done for the year. According to numerous Internet reports, Johnny Damon has replaced the Yanks’ catcher on the active roster, and Tyler Kepner notes that Posada, whose damaged right shoulder is still bothering him, may opt for surgery sooner rather than later in order to be ready for Spring Training in 2009. While missing Posada’s bat looms large for the Yanks, he’s hitting just .214/.365/.262 in July and has seen his power suffer with this shoulder injury. The Yanks now will hope that Bobby Abreu can pick it back up as the bottom third of their lineup — Jose Molina, Melky Cabrera, Brett Gardner — have not shown much in the way of offense lately.

The Jorge Posada problem
Game 99: Johnny's back, but it's probably too soon
  • vinny-b

    have to trade for a bat, now.

    either that, or become sellers.

    one OR the other.

    • B

      What to do? What to do? I don’t really like any of the catchers that are available if Cash is gonna look for a catcher!

  • Adam

    cash: get jon daniels on the phone.

  • Scott

    Let me first say that I love and respect Jorgie a lot…

    But isn’t it interesting that he has a season like this a year after his contract season in which he bats .338 or so…Think about this if Jorgie had this season last season, what would the Yanks have done in the off-season about him, he’s probably not a Yankee anymore. Never underestimate contract seasons…it’s no coincidence, I’ve seen it too many times…

    • Scott

      By the Hip-Hip-Jorgie forever…

    • Scott

      By the way Hip-Hip-Jorgie forever…

      • Scott

        Now it’s just Hip-Hip-Jose…Go Yanks

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      That’s ridiculous. He injured his shoulder; he’s not sucking up the joint like Varitek is doing this year. I’m sure no one feels worse about this than Jorge, and to question his integrity over the contract is fairly insulting to him and other Yankee fans.

      • Scott

        I’m not questioning his integrity at all Ben. I’m merely saying its interesting is all, just the way some things workout…

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          Sure you are. That’s what the ellipses evoke. It’s not interesting; it’s a terribly unlucky coincidence. Posada’s contract and the shoulder he injured while throwing have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

          • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

            you know what ben, now hat i read thru these comments it really seams like everyone disagrees with you on this contract issue

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

              I haven’t weighed in pro or con on Posada’s contract. What I’ve said is that you can’t criticize him for a labrum accident. It’s not intentional.

              Also, “everyone disagrees with” me is a completely false comment. Read the thread. Most people are slamming your position and others are agreeing. In other words, it a debate and a valid one. Don’t come back in the thread to gloat just because you think you’re right.

              • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

                but what justified arguments are there against me? like the genius who said im “dumb” or pat with i should have my own wing, no hard feelings i usually like ur posts but i have on suggestion, if you can post a poll some how and ask if people think that the length of jorge’s contract was too long its bound to be lopsided in the yes favor.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

                  Don’t press your luck, Joey. Just give it a rest.

                • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

                  it wasnt a wise alec thing im serious just to see everyones thoughts

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

                  That would be an incredibly skewed poll. People would be voting with hindsight.

                • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

                  they can vote in what ever sight they want, the fact of the matter still remains, he was too old to get a 4 year deal.

                • christopher

                  was 4 years too many – absolutly. we all said that and knew that when it was signed – that he would b nothing moe that a mediocre DH in year 4 maybe even 3, but that said – the team had little choie. there was no replacement available for the forseeable future – 2 -3 years,.

                  cashman was strongarmed into the deal and most of us agreed he had to do it.

                  i am by no means a cashman fan – the exact opposite, but this deal i cannot ctritisize

                • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

                  then my point is prooven, its time to have someone in a GM whocalls the shots not getting pushed into unfair deals, listen even if we had jose as our primary then so what? he was hitting well up untill his hammy injury. as we all know teams sacrifice the catchers position for defnse, why cant we do the same?

                • christopher

                  if mo was a fregee agent this ywar would you have them replace him rather than giving the 4th yea?

                  the money wasnt a problem, it was the years and it has been the yankees practice for as long as i remember to give that etra year knowing full well it would be overkill – ee Giambi deal, even see mussina’s 2 year deal 9i dont care how smart any GM is you could nto havepredicted this, see ARADO and JEETter’s deal.

                  again this is coming from a nni-cash fan, he has takene this building the farm wasy too lng, but you cant ctritisize the deal 20/20 hindsight. if they wne t into this year with milona as the everday catcher he would have been cucidfied

        • Adam

          i agree that injuries happen contract year or not, but it does seem like players always have their best seasons in their walk year, doesn’t it?

          • Scott

            Yes Adam, that’s all I meant, I didn’t mean to belittle Jorge or what he had meant to the Yanks success

          • Scott

            Yes Adam, that’s all I meant, I didn’t mean to belittle Jorge or what he has and will continue to mean to the Yanks success

          • Rob_in_CT

            Yeah, I mean look at that awesome year Andruw Jones had. Oh, wait…

            Somebody (BP?) did a comprehensive study on the “walk year” phenomenon and determined that there was a very small positive effect. Key words very small. But, because it’s a media meme, we remember all the ones that match up. Beltre’s 2004. Posada’s 2007. And things like Andruw Jones’ 2007? Well, they don’t fit the meme, so…

            • A.D.

              Probably helps that with the 6 year arbitration most players walk in their prime

      • steve (different one)

        wait, Varitek is in the last year of his contract.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          Yes. I’m just saying that Posada’s struggles are due to an injury and not some plain old “I suck” type of problem like Varitek’s.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

            How about we just use the adjective “varitekian” going forward, for brevity’s sake?

            As in, “Yes. I’m just saying that Posada’s struggles are due to an injury and aren’t varitekian, per se.”

            • Andy in Sunny Daytona

              I like it.

              Like…..I putted terrible on the greens today. I’m starting to think its not mental, but a more Veritekian decline?

            • Alan

              Careful, Michael Kay might be lurking in the shadows looking for his newest catch phrase.

    • steve (different one)

      actually in this case it IS a coincidence.

      his BABIP was close to .400 last year which spiked his BA and pushed up his OBP and SLG. his isoD and isoP were close to his career levels.

      what happened? he had an insanely lucky season in that every ball he put into play fell in for a hit.

      or do you think he was somehow MAGICALLY able to will his labrum from tearing this year, but decided to let it tear this season?

      • christopher

        the whole thing is a shame no matter how you look at it – derailing what had an outside chance at being a HOF caree

    • Scott

      I didn’t articulate what I meant…I feel bad for Jorgie, as i’m sure he does as well. I meant that a lot of the time its amazing how contract seasons workout is all..

      • steve (different one)

        i understand what you are saying. i think it was your last sentence that made everyone jump on it.

        i’m just saying we tend to remember those big contract years, but we tend to forget that Mariano, for example, had one of his “worst” seasons last year, but is having one of his best this year.

        that doesn’t fit the storyline though.

        didn’t mean to pile on…

        • Scott

          It’s ok to pile on…i deserve it for accidentally ripping into one of my favorite players…lol….

    • christopher

      come on their conspiracy theorist – he didnt plan this injury out

  • Joltin’ Joe

    Casey Blake is available and not in the midst of a flukey, career year like Xavier Nady. Can we trade for him?

    • Adam

      can he catch?

      • christopher

        forget if he can catch – ass an outfield bat or a good DH and everything is A – o.k

  • r.w.g.

    Well this kind of changes my opinions about who we ought to be trading for.

    • radnom

      but..but..but….we need a lefty reliever!!!@!@!

      That was just as wrong before this news as it is now

      • r.w.g.

        No, not really. It’s been pretty well documented throughout baseball that a lot of lefty hitters have trouble hitting lefty pitchers.

        I didn’t knock the bullpen. I said it would be good to add a lefty instead of banking that Brian Bruney is going to be the answer coming off a Lisfranc injury.

        But continue to focus on singular comments and bring them from thread to thread instead of sharing a opinion. Fucking joker.

        • Cult of Basebaal

          yeah, but you’re still missing the points. we don’t need a lefty reliever AND brian bruney’s recovery isn’t the reason.

          the bullpen is fine. it’s better than fine it’s very, very good, with more quality down in AA and AAA to bolster it if it starts to falter.

          the angels have done just damn fine with a pen full of righty relievers.

          quality is a far better indicator of future success than handedness.

          meanwhile, our offense is scoring 2.5 runs a game.

          anyone traded for a lefty reliever is someone that can’t be traded to fix the real problem.

          • r.w.g.

            I just don’t believe we have anyone in our pen apart from Mariano who I want pitching to David Ortiz in a big spot.

            I really don’t believe their current numbers will translate to getting Ortiz, Ramirez, Lowell, or Youkilis when it matters the most.

            • ChrisS

              that’s more to do with Mariano than it has to do with quality relief arms.

              There’s only one Mariano and we got him already. You’re asking for someone that doesn’t exist or wouldn’t be that much better than what we have now.

            • christopher

              is there anyone ou feel comfortable pitching to big papi – hasnt he even tagged mo a few times

          • r.w.g.

            Brian Cashman isn’t going to trade for someone to fix the problem, okay? Teams don’t want deals packaged around Kennedy and whoever the hell else. They don’t want these players because they don’t view them as impact players.

            They want Montero, AJack, guys like that. Cashman isn’t going to trade them. Unless there is just some crazy posturing going on by these sellers, Cash isn’t going to pay the price to get a big bat in here. It’s going to be up to the hitters we have to hit better.

  • Rob_in_CT

    Well, signing Bonds makes even more sense than it already did. I can’t get behind a trade for somebody like Nady at this point (I was already dubious) – this team, sans Jorge, is not one decent bat away.

    • greg

      If Matsui is done too, it would make absolutely no sense at this point to not sign bonds. I know matsui is trying to rehab again but I’m not too optimistic.

    • Scott of 3 Kids Tickets

      “Well, signing Bonds makes even more sense than it already did.”

      This was my first thought, then I almost puked. Can we get a BIG STICK like we used to…a la Chili Davis, Cecil Fielder, Darryl Straw, Dave Justice, etc…????? I’ve been asking this for a few weeks and today it’s IMPERITIVE if the news is correct.

      I’m supposed to be going tonight….

      GO YANKS!
      -Scott

      • Rob_in_CT

        All the guys you mentioned are retired. Which active players do you suggest? Adam Dunn?

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

          Dunn isn’t that bad of an idea. All depends on the price.

          Word is, though, the Reds don’t want to deal an outfielder (because they have no internal options to replace Dunn), so they may have to be “blown away” to move Dunn. That doesn’t sound good for us.

          • christopher

            Dunn is not an option this year – next year he will be the stal of the offseason. you will never get a 40+ homerun .400+ OBP guy for as little as it would take him because of his apparent “dispassion for the game”

      • kunaldo

        bonds IS a big stick…

        • christopher

          makes too much sense

  • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

    Don’t worry… CashMoney already has a foolproof backup plan…

    Seriously, though, what the hell do we have to do to get Big Stein off of his orthopedic donut long enough to slap some sense into his sons and have them go sign Reggie Stocker? Are we waiting until we only have 4 healthy regulars left?

    • steve (different one)

      can someone explain the reggie stocker thing?

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos
      • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

        he is in the MLB the show games as barry bonds, just like michael jordan never appearing in video games. i think that is a result of not being in the players union.

        • steve (different one)

          oh, that’s kindof awesome.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

            He’s in the union, but opted out of the licensing deal. So he doesn’t get a cut of MLB licensing revenue, but he’s free to sign his own independent deals for shirts, video games, etc.

            • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

              oh alright but i had the general idea lol

              • Andy in Sunny Daytona

                Kevin Millar was tricked. He thought he was buying a time share in Orlando, next thing he knows, he’s playing for the Marlins. Damn salesmen.

  • JRVJ

    Well, this certainly justifies the decision not to DFA Moeller.

  • Joltin’ Joe

    Ibanez / Blake – one of them should be on this team in ten days or Cashman should be fired.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      So you’re saying you would fire Cashman if he doesn’t get a 36-year-old outfielder or a soon-to-be 35-year-old having a first half with numbers better than you would expect? Buying high isn’t a sound philosophy.

      • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

        very agreed ben, out outfield options are slim, sure you can say holliday but to me where does he fit in the allready stacked lineup? third to replace abreu’s woes? id rather get him and fuentes and give up the system rather than givee any prospects to that cocksucker over his head GM in P.A. for bay nd nady.

        • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

          or heres an interesting thought.. how about marcus thames?

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

            I like Thames, but I don’t think the Tigers are selling.

            • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

              yea not a bad point just an idea. i heard it onWFAN just wanted to see if you thought it was a good idea. i think they said it for the mets to

    • Glen L

      that’s a very sane thought put together by what i’m sure was a remarkably cogent thought process

      • dread pirate roberts

        truly, he has a dizzying intellect …

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

          NO! To the pain.

  • Scott of 3 Kids Tickets

    There has to be someone better than Ibanez / Blake out there….How about (left fielder-wise) Holliday, Bay, or David DeJesus?

    -Scott

    • ChrisS

      Holliday: allegedly the Rockies are demanding the moon. or failing that, cars that run on water.

      Bay is moveable, but the PIrates want the water cars, too.

      DeJesus is signed for three more years for cheap and is definitely not going anywhere without getting a haul in return.

  • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

    The signing of posada in teh offseason is probably the second worst of the offseason to andruw jones. he is virtually useless to this team, ive said it plent of times that this man needs to be moved to first base and if you dont like that idea GET IM OUT, what did they give him 3 or 4 years, i mean c’mon he isnt even that good. he is virtually useless to this team ,he has been bitching alot lately and not hitting, so we’ll make up what posada brings as far as run production with molina’s outstanding control of the opposing running game

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      He’s injured. How hard is that to understand?

      • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

        well when you go out and sign a fuckin 36 year old catcher what do you EXPECT to happen? you expect him to catch till age for? ur better than that ben. hurt or not. BAD DEAL.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          This was not an age-related injury. There’s a difference between a 36-year-old catcher wearing down due to age (Varitek) and Posada’s shoulder injury which could and has happened to players much younger (similar to Taylor Teagarden’s surgery).

          • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

            but ben HES 36! i understand he had one of his finest seasons but he is THIRTY SIX! you can NOT beat around that. you do not give 36 year olds 4 year deals! they need to stop with this giving they’re vets big time deals just becuase they are home grown vets, what happens when jeter’s deal is done in i think 2 years? say he has a knee problem either before or after a new contract and he’ll be about 36 or so right, are they gonna give him a 4 year 45 million dollar deal?

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

              Joey, nobody expected him to catch for all four years of the deal.

              We’ll have a ton more roster flexibility, and be a lot younger, for the last two seasons of his deal. He’ll be a 38-year old slugging 1B before you know it.

              Calm down.

              • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

                okay, first of all im not an asshole, i dotn think anyone even that senseless “pat” guy knew he wasnt gonna catch for the whole deal, the thing is, if this team wants to move in this younger direction or even get texiera which is really expected to happen, hwo does jorge fit in the equation, besides, seeing how he handled the whole not catching situation really showed alot about his character, so i dont know if that old dog would be up to learing new tricks if ya get what i mean

                • Newman

                  You have no credibility whatsoever if you think Jorge Posada is “not even that good.” I’ll even go as far as to say you’re a joke

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

                  Joey, you may not be an asshole, but you sure shout, panic, browbeat, overreact, and leap to conclusions like one…

        • pat

          joey who the fuck else werew we going to sign last year paul lo duca???
          yorvit torrealba???

          i love all these people who come out of the woodwork and spout some bullshit they heard chris russo or mike lupica say. this knee jerk reaction uninformed bullshit needs to stop. try leaving the posting to people who know what thwyre talking about.

          dont bring ur weak shit around here anymore.

          • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

            pat, the problem isnt signing jorge,, i like him the problem is giving him a FUCKING 4 YEAR DEAL! so i think you need to start knowing what is going on.

    • radnom

      wow, you are dumb

      • Glen L

        I happen to think he makes a fair point when viewed from an objective, expected baseball-results perspective

        • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

          thank you, it shows how educated that other idiot is and i quote” you are dumb” smart smart smart people..

          • radnom

            Well honestly there was so much wrong with your post I didn’t even know where to begin. How about this…who would you have rather Cashman signed in the offseason to be catching now?

          • Chris

            Posada could easily come back next year after surgery and be back to his normal production. This could also help in that it will basically eliminate a full year of catching and hopefully slow down the inevitable wearing down, and Posada will be more effective at the end of his contract than if he hadn’t gotten injured.

            In general, it’s a bad idea to speculate on how good or bad a 4+ year contract is when you’re less than a year into it (well, unless you signed Barry Zito).

            • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

              well on what you like to think are your two strongest points you said “could” unfortunately this is a game of contracts that can very well come to bite you in the ass

            • Old Ranger

              A thing that is forgotten buy many is; JP didn’t start catching until after he was in the MiL system. While other catchers have many years on their legs/arms JP is relatively only 32/33. Nobody on the team works or plays harder then JP…he takes a lot of pride in being The Yanks Catcher, you can’t very well slam his desire to be the catcher until he can no longer do the job. Right now, he can’t do the job…so, he’s on the DL. Good contract signing, all things considered. 27/08??

    • christopher

      forgetting that moving him to 1st base takes away from his line-up presence as a large part of his offensive valuse comes from his posiion.

      plus we have ni idea if he can play first – everyone ssumes he can, but i dont think its that easy. picking splitters in the dirt is different than digging up balls out of the dirt at first and who knows what type of range he has. what has all these years of cathching done to his knees?

      his going to the DL doesnt really hurt that badly as before this he was relegated to SH therefore leavig the dynaic 3 of moina gadner and melky in the lineuup. they needed an outfielder than and still needs one now

  • E-ROC

    Ronny Paulino or maybe Benjie Molina?

    • Glen L

      Paulino is terrible, I’d much rather play our Molina everyday

      Laird or Ramirez from the rangers make sense (Teagarden’s bat is a ? and i’d rather trade for gerald or max before Salty) … i just don’t know what the price tag will be, given the yankees obvious need

  • http://fitnesse.co.uk UKYankee

    Reggie Stocker…..awesome! I can’t see a huge downside to a “minimum” contract for one of the greatest players of all time. He seems to be the poster child….yet there is so much statistical evidence to suggest steroid-HGH and especially “greenies” had widespread use for atleast a decade. all “supplements are just training aids until they become banned…just ask Carl Lewis who has admitted using Ephedrine before the 84 Olympics…does that make him less of a cheat than Ben Johnson?….sorry….i’m rambling

    anyone think cash’ll go after Teargarden?
    or maybe Texeira now….for Melky IPK and Cox could get it done?

    • Glen L

      Melky = no value
      IPK = all time low as a pitcher viewed as having avg stuff and current control problems (and injured)
      Cox = reliever currently sporting an 18/14 K/BB ratio

      can’t really see that getting Tex

      • cult of basebaal

        i’m impressed. that’s much less snarky than i would be in my reply.

    • radnom

      I honestly would rather the Yankees not be the team who sells their soul for a slightly better shot at a WS. Even if he comes on and they do win it, the fact that he is on the team will take away from it in my (and many others’) eyes.

      • kunaldo

        how about the championships we won w/ clemens and pettitte? have those changed in your eyes?

        • radnom

          Good point.
          1. Pettitte is not on the same level as Clemens or Bonds, not really even close.

          2. When Clemens was on the team (before he went to the astros) there was no talk of steroids with him, or at least nothing major and mainstream. Any other team in the league would have wanted him on their roster. This is a case where the team would be going in with their eyes WIDE open, and would be the first team in the whole league to cave in, when basically everyone could use him for the price he is at.

          Different situation entirely.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

            1) Why is Pettitte not on the same level as Clemens or Bonds? Because you don’t want him to be? Or because you think he only did it “once”?

            2) You really think no team ever had any inclination about anyone before this time? Come on. Be serious.

            • Andy in Sunny Daytona

              Pettitte was tricked. He thought he was taking GHB. He was hanging out with Sebastian Janikowski having a few drinks and…

              • ChrisS

                those were roofies.

                That Janikowski is a sick MFer.

                • Andy in Sunny Daytona

                  Thats what GHB is.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

                  Kick his ass, Seabass!

          • r.w.g.

            If you think Pettitte honestly just did HGH once or twice, you’re absolutely kidding yourself.

            McNamee was caught red-fucking-handed and the government and baseball wanted names and admissions and they wanted to move on and get shit wrapped up. Pettitte was smart enough to realize McNamee was doing all he could to let him down easy, Clemens didn’t.

            Other than that, they are exactly the same. They took drugs to be better players.

      • Rob_in_CT

        Apparently having Pettitte and Giambi on the team is ok, but Bonds is a bridge too far…

      • Glen L

        you know what will greatly take away from a championship? not winning it because we all love the Big G, but, for some reason lost on me, despise Bonds

        btw – just for clarity i love giambi

        • radnom

          You guys really don’t see a difference between Giambi/Pettitte and Barry Bonds?

          There is a reason why only one of them is not on a big league roster, and wont be next year and it has NOTHING to do with talent.

          • Glen L

            Yeah — its called skin color

          • The Fallen Phoenix

            And that difference is: scapegoat.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

            Glen, Phoenix, absolutely right.

            Every excuse and complaint about Barry being a “pariah” doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. He’s the poster child for all this because he’s been chosen to be the poster child. It’s all bullshit.

            There was an era called the steroids era. Hundreds of players cheated. The cheating was so institutionalized that it barely met the criteria of cheating, it was more like common practice. Offensive numbers went way up, but (and here’s the important part) the skyrocketing offensive numbers didn’t correlate to actual wins or losses, because the game doesn’t work like that. Baseball is still a game of luck and chance, and since the “cheating” wasn’t confined to a few superstars or a few teams, it means that some people got some dubious records, but none of the TITLES are tarnished because every team was at an equal competitive advantage and disadvantage from the “cheaters” on their team and the ones on the other teams.

      • christopher

        would they sign hi if it wasnt yankee stadiums last year

  • Count Zero

    No one could have foreseen this for Jorge.

    However, much as everyone rationalized the fact that there were no catchers available to replace him…and that his bat was worth it…and that he was a true Yankee…etc., etc.

    The high probability that a) he would come down to earth from last season and b) that he was pretty near the end of his days behind the plate (cf. nearly 1400 games caught and 8 straight seasons of 130+) made me wince at that contract as soon as they offered it to him.

    Odds were he was only going to catch for two years — but the odds didn’t pan out and now it looks like he might catch one at best. So now you gave out a very expensive four year deal to a DH who isn’t particularly special.

    Sorry — but that’s the way I see it.

    • JRVJ

      Assuming that the surgery goes well, there will be very little wear and tear on Posada’s body from this season.

      Was Jorge’s deal a great one? No, but it was the necessary one at the time.

      Health permitting, Jorge will be the Yanks starting catcher next season, and he’ll be an elite catcher.

      • Count Zero

        Maybe…maybe not. I wouldn’t bank on it. Shoulders are a tricky thing…

        • Chris

          Didn’t he have the same surgery before, and came back fine?

          • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

            rehab i think

    • christopher

      unless he can catch next season – he is 2006 giambi all over again

  • Rob_in_CT

    Seriously – you either sign Bonds (go for it) or you accept that this is a transition year and stand pat (or even try to sell). You do NOT go out and trade prospects for Xavier Nady (under these circumstances).

  • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

    FELLAS i have a question, when is this dope cashman gonna stop “building for the future” AND GO OUT AND GET THE FUCKING JOB DONE! we want a world series its been 5 years since we even been to one. i understand this guy takes pride in rebuilding the farm system but its just like making money, whats the point of making it if yo uarent gonna spend it?

    • Ivan

      Yea and the cub fan feels your pain. 5 years without going to the WS.

      • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

        okay but they arent the yankees, NEXTTTT…

        • cult of basebaal

          did you wander over here from LOHUD?

          your bridge called, it misses you.

    • Rob_in_CT

      Such impatience. The Yankees have been rebuilding the farm for about 3 years now. It takes some time – that rebuilding is just starting to show results (Joba, Hughes, Kennedy, etc).

      The team has made the playoffs for what, 13 years in a row? One year off (should they not make it this year) isn’t the end of the world. There are some players who should be available as free agents in the offseason who can make a big difference. Them + the farm = long-term success.

      Matsui and Posada appear to be done for the year. ARod missed significant time. Jeter has been banged up (or he’s just getting old and declining). Those are big-time injuries. Sometimes, the baseball gods reach down and screw up your awesome all-star catchers’ shoulder, and it just isn’t your year.

      • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

        but again, this is NEW YORK we have hig hexpectations here, why havent we made it past the first round in YEARS? see what i mean, and this is all because of cashmans little plan. understood? good.

        • Chris

          we haven’t made it because people are too impatient to understand that you sometimes have to suffer some losing in order to win it all. Just look at the Red Sox.

          • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

            ok ay thats fair to say,but hte point is we’ve got a winning tradition here, we were spoiled during the joe torre era, im just tired of the short comings in the post season.

        • Ivan

          That’s that media, mainstream fan and etc talk. Don’t buy into that. Yes the yankees are a prostegious (must of fucked that word up) franchise, but even the yankees gotta be like other baseball clubs as well, and the yanks are not immune to other crazy shit in the baseball world.

          • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

            well, if you are saying what i think you did, then good point lol

        • jsbrendog

          joey. yousound like a huge douche. not attacking you as a person cause im sure youre a cool guy..but your posts scream douchiness. calm down. and a little advice, it wouldnt come off that way without the NEXTT… and get it good comments. youre not smarter than any of use, nor are you possibly dumber, but i think many will agree with me when i say this isnt “some other blog” where we resort to name caling and condescending remarks. everyone here is well informed and are all about our team winning.. you are allowed to your opinion, just dont be a dick about it

          • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

            how am i being a dick, you are the hypoctire, name calling? i believe you just called me a douche…

            • jsbrendog

              no, i said you sound like one because of your seemingly condescending comments. i never called you a douche as a person. its all there. i have no problem with your or youn opinions but you exprss them in a confrontational way believe whatever you want i could care less it just rubbed me the wrong way the way you believe that your opinion is god and the way you approached it….and like i said, im sure youre not a bad guy

              • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

                Im condescending? that was one of very few if not the only one that i was sarcastic in, look at other people on here if you wanna play the sarcasm police okay.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

                  Joey: Sarcasm and condescension are far from the same thing.

                  Go look them up.

                  (see, THAT’S condescending, not sarcastic. I really do want you to look them up.)

                • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

                  i think this guy has a crush on me, you just love replying on my comments dont you

    • Glen L

      he’s probably never again going to do what your suggestion .. your suggestion rewritten to accurately reflect what you’re saying:

      Trade cheap, young, talent that should develop into something more than it currently is FOR older, expensive talent that is past its prime and will continue deteriorating throughout the life of the contract

      so that could be why he’s not overpaying in prospects and $$ for declining talent

      ask the royals how pumped they are to have jose guillen in 2 years (or next year)

      • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

        what do you mean older crumbling vets? go get arroyo, hes not too old and he has a winning record on a bad team in a hitters park.. think about what you are saying

        • Count Zero

          Woohoo! W-L record: the ultimate pitching metric!

        • steve (different one)

          “a winning record”.

          awesome.

          he’s 8-7 with a 5.71 ERA.

          and you called Cashman a “dope”. seriously?

          • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

            do you see the park he calls home? go look up the measurements and then you’ll come back here wit ha different attitude

            • steve (different one)

              here you go:

              HOME: 3-4, 4.25 ERA
              AWAY: 5-3, 7.35 ERA

              so, he’s pitched to an ERA over 3 runs better at home.

              still think his ballpark is dragging his numbers down?

              • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

                absolutely that away era is VERY inflated it came against toronto at home, besides everyone needs a change of scenery

                • steve (different one)

                  and Atlanta and Philly and Chicago…

                  he’s not a bad pitcher, but he’s also not that good either. and he’s being paid like he is very good and will cost prospects.

                  i just don’t see the point.

                  now, if we had to take him in order to get Dunn at a discount…now we might talk.

                • Glen L

                  He’s clearly getting unlucky as over 16% of his fly balls are becoming home runs

                  But his line drive rate is 25.8% and a ground ball rate of 38.4%, which are clearly not good … all this and he’s still the beneficiary of a 66.9% LOB

                  With that said he’s still striking out 7.4/9 and walking 3.2/9 .. very decent and his FIP is 4.84 with an xFIP of 4.37

                  If he came cheaply enough he wouldn’t be the worst grab in the world at all, although his numbers would likely take a BIG hit going back to the AL east and leaving AAAA

                  of course pitching is the least of our problems today (and now that i wrote this Sir Sidney will probably give up 73 runs tonight)

                • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

                  listen im not saying hes gnna be a front end of the rotation guy , he WILL be a 4,5 starter to joba,pettite,moose hopefully wang.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

                  “absolutely that away era is VERY inflated it came against toronto at home, besides everyone needs a change of scenery”

                  That statement proves that you’re just an dope clutching at straws.

                  STFU.

                • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

                  id love to see you make me. its an inflated era. change of scenery will do him well.

      • jsbrendog

        or this yr haha…..if i had to bet money on who would pull a spreewell it def wouldve been him and not chacon

    • steve (different one)

      seriously, i can’t believe he hasn’t replaced Posada already. this news is 20 minutes old.

  • Ivan

    Well it GM’s are gonna ask for a King ransom from Cashman and are probably are not gonna do him favors under the circumstances the yankees are in. Nady is playing over his head is the classic example of a sell high player. Same with Blake

    The Rockies are gonna ask a fortune for Holliday. probably the same with Bay.

    Ibanez would help but even they would hold the yanks up given the situation.

  • A.D.

    I mean obviously this isn’t good if Posada can’t carry out the season, as Moeller & Molina aren’t much defensively. However I think a reactionary mood here (i.e. overpaying for a veteran catcher) isn’t a good plan, going out and getting Paul Lo Duca doesn’t improve the team.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      …Molina aren’t much defensively…

      Jose Molina is one of the top defensive catchers in baseball. I think you mean offensively, yes?

      • A.D.

        Yeah totally meant offensively, Molina is a top defender, and Moeller seems to be avg to above avg back there

  • Ivan

    On more thing it’s not automatic that bonds is gonna produce. Frankly I can care less about the other shit around him. The point is, he’s 44 years old, hasn’t all year and has bad knees and going into a new league (lets face it he’s not going to the NL) and in any point now in his career can fall off. I am not sold in signing Barry Bonds period. That is one of those knee-jerk, big player reaction.

    Look again I tell ya people, when the situation is at it’s highest pressure, you stay the calmest from preventing yourself from making bad movies in concern with cashman.

    Just chill, I understand this is bad news and it is obviously dissapointing but come on, just be calm and see whats up.

    • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

      i like ivan, hes a calm sensable guy lol.

    • kunaldo

      but it’s only going to be the pro-rated player minimum! If you’re worried that he might not produce, then sign him for the chump change contract, and if he sucks, cut his ass

      this is a rare case of LOW risk, HIGH reward! i dont get how people don’t see this…

      • Casper

        please correct me if i’m wrong, but i thought i read that it would take bonds about a month to get ready to play in games once he’s signed. so at this point, if you sign bonds, he’s in your lineup sometime around the end of august. i’m not bashing the sentiment to sign him, i think at one point it was probably pretty valid. but today, on july 21st, i think that ship has sailed.

        • Andy in Sunny Daytona

          10 days. His agent says so. Agents never lie.

          • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

            never ever ever lol

  • pat

    there needs to be a hall of fame for terrible posts and joey can have his own wing

    • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

      why cause you make retarted points? dont hate..

      • steve (different one)

        amazing.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

          The jokes just write themselves.

          It’s like he’s channeling “Malibu’s Most Wanted.”

  • jsbrendog

    how about bring back paul oneill? 21 is vacant…and did you see that hr during the softball game??oh wait no we were all working….but still

  • Chris

    They need a catcher with a decent bat more so than another DH.

    Molina’s OPS+ of 48 is not going to cut it. The Yanks could probably get Estrada on the cheap.

    • Ivan

      Estrada sucks.

      • Chris

        Correct, but he’s an enormous upgrade offensively.

        • Glen L

          Last year estrada’s OPS+ was 78 (complete with a sweet .296 OBP) .. sure an upgrade but still 22 points below average for a catcher

          • Chris

            True, and his career mark of 84 isn’t much better. But note that Molina is currently sitting pretty at 48.

            We’re not going to be able to get even an average starting catcher in a deadline trade without giving up quite a bit, plus it creates a possible problem if Posada is able to catch again next year.

            If nothing else, Estrada would be a nice back-up.

  • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

    yeah agreed, we have WAY too many DH types on this team expecially with damon going out, personally i feel that the hits will come for gardner and his speed can help us out.

  • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

    oh yeha another thing can someone find me jorge’s taking the first pitch rates? im positive he always swings at the first pitch. that is a real rally killer, sure you might be able to leave on in a gap but honestly its annoying. and if someone could find that i would appreciate it!

    • greg

      yeah, a real rally killer, considering when posada puts the ball in play on the first pitch he’s batting .385 with a 1.023 ops, and last season about the same.

      • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

        okay you found the stats i wanted to, im saying if you have men on base you lower your chances of driving in the runs by being over aggressive. so i dont wanna hear any bashing because i asked if someone can find the stats.

        • Rob_in_CT

          No bashing… just , well, you’re wrong. The stats bear it out. Jorge does serious damage when he swings at the first pitch. He’s a very patient hitter, so generally if he swings at the first pitch, it’s a good one to hit.

  • cult of basebaal

    i’ve changed my mind joey, clearly you are a performance artist worthy of comparison to the great andy kaufman. bravo, sir! i stand humbled.

    • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

      is this supposed to be a wise ass thing? lol

  • Joltin’ Joe

    Cash cannot be sitting around like this, he needs to go get a bat within the next week, whether it is an affordable guy like Blake or a blockbuster like Holliday (which I would not want, selling the farm).

    But I’m thinking we dump him when the season is over and bring in Kim Ng.

    Screw lefty relievers. The Pirates want too much. We do not need one; our bullpen is great. We are getting by in the rotation and I would rather give McCutchen/etc. chances. Offense, however, needs a boost. And I have a hard time believing that Ibanez or Blake, the latter of who has CONSISTENTLY posted over 100 OPS+, is more expensive than a Marquez and low prospects. Come on dude, give this team a shot in the arm!

    • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

      watch out, one think i observed is that making the points you just did will get you bashed on here. and a lefty reliver is necarrary man, we want to make a run , better to be safe than sorry, but starting pitcher before lefty reliever.

      • steve (different one)

        Cash cannot be sitting around like this

        do you really think he is “sitting around”?

        • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

          i think hes just another anxious frustrated fan like me. its kinda like being in panic mode, we have 3 legit teams contending for the division, not just two like every other year. we expect a huge splash and anything but one will disappoint

      • Joltin’ Joe

        2 Things:

        1. Do not get me confused with “Joey H.”; different readers.

        2. I don’t mind if I get bashed. To say that Cashman has been overly passive the last few years is an understatement.

        • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

          please, just please

      • J.R.

        Dude Im reading this thread and it seems like you barely think before you type.

        • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

          and how? my point was absolutely true. fact not opinion

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

            Fact? You said Brian Cashman is just another anxious frustrated fan. Clearly, you know nothing about the job description of a GM. Though you think you’re a better one than Cash.

            • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

              i said that in reference to the guy who posted..

              • steve (different one)

                this makes a TON more sense, but i have to admit, i thought you meant Cashman too.

                • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

                  lol okay thats fair, but no i mean the guy why the fuck would i say cashman is a fan.

  • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

    oh question for everyone, did any of you read bobby murcers book? im a few chapters in so far so good.

  • http://yankeesetc.blogspot.com/ Travis G.

    iirc, Cashman didnt want to go anymore than 3 years for Jorge. looks like he was right.

    • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

      FINALLY SOMEONE! LMAO

  • BillyBall

    radnom says:
    July 21st, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    You guys really don’t see a difference between Giambi/Pettitte and Barry Bonds?

    There is a reason why only one of them is not on a big league roster, and wont be next year and it has NOTHING to do with talent.
    Reply to this comment

    Glen L says:
    July 21st, 2008 at 5:08 pm

    Yeah — its called skin color

    That finalizes it for me, I’m sold! The stupidity and clear racist viewpoints from some on this website have sold me on my train of thinking. To compare a surly creep like Bonds with a Petite or Giambi and than say he (Bonds) is not playing due to the color of his skin. This is not only a hypocritical comment but it is a clear sign of reverse racism on the part of those who believe that Bonds being black is the reason why no team including the Yankees are willing to sign him. I guess every team is run by a racist and MLB is a racist league! That is an awful statement involving pure hatred! Why not judge the man on his character alone and stop making excuses for him! He lied to the federal government, he has been nothing short of a terrible role model in regards to the whole steroid issue. Where Giambi and Petite, regardless on how they said it, apologized for using steroids and embarrassing the game and there team. Bonds blamed everyone else for his misfortunes. Look at Clemens, he is another creep. The Astros refused to bring him in this season as a spring training coach, Clemens even flirted with playing this season for the Astros and Texas and they both stated they were not interested. But he is white and that is okay. How about the imbecile Maguire? What happened to that guy? He fell off the face of the earth. They had a highway named after him and a mayor who happened to be black removed his name from the highway in St Louis. That mayor should be commended. Maguire will not make the Hall of Fame! But he is white and that is also OK. Not when Bonds is involved, because some feel he is being discriminated cause he is black add not because he embarrassed the game along with Maguire and Clemens and put a permanent black eye on the sport as a whole. I would have hoped the RAB commentators would put a stop to this racist talk by now but it continues to fester and quite frankly, it is insulting to all people of all colors! Enough with the excuses! If he was clean and honest and humble I would be the first to call the Yankees on it and ask for them to sign Bonds. If Pete Rose would have come clean and been more humble he would have been in consideration for the Hall of Fame by now. This nonsense involving race needs to stop in this country!

    • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

      *standing ovation* Sorry but i had to. Listen man, im sure glen was saying that along with what you are trying to say.

    • Glen L

      Look man you’re certainly entitled to your opinion, but there’s a stark difference between Clemens and Bonds … Bonds put up GREAT GREAT numbers last year whereas Clemens did not

    • TheLastClown

      Yes sir, the nonsense involving race certainly needs to stop, but you live in a country where there are indeed racial tensions, like it or not.

      Barry Bonds is the scapegoat, poster child for scrutiny, etc….., over guys like McGwire, because he is one of the highest profile players in the history of the game. When Big Mac & Sammy were slammin away in 98, it was only four years removed from the 94 strike and what some heralded as a huge dropoff in baseball interest. It was a HUGE boon for the game. And as any political science student knows, corruption often gets overlooked in the face of large rewards.

      Bonds went on even more prolific tears after that, but the buoyancy of the game had returned. Records crowds were attending again, and people were into it, they didn’t need a 70+ HR season to get them excited about the game *plus he wasn’t racing anyone*

      Now that people had returned to their enjoyment of the game, the “cheating” needed to be rectified, and someone had to be accountable. Usually when the proverbial shit hits the fan, its the guy on top that takes the fall. Thats what Bonds was/is, and the bigger they are…..

      Now I used to care about the whole steroid thing, but when Jason Grimsley got popped, it showed me that players were using PEDs just to keep up, in numbers that far exceed what any Mitchell report is going to turn in, or whatever names were linked to BALCO…simply put, it could have been/probably was done by the vast majority of players.

      The fact that he is one of the most prodigious talents in all of baseball history, and has the type of ego that goes with a person of such stature and acclaim, doesn’t lend him to be the apologetic cuddly-bear that people seem to think Giambi & Pettite are, but all of that is media hype public relations nonsense. Giambi never admitted to anything, he said he apologized for some nameless transgression, and furthermore, all of baseball, from the owners on down, should apologize for the same nebulous use of………….?

      Pettite said he used once, then twice, and if the McNamee hammer or some other blackmailer/buck-passer comes down again, it may end up being three times.

      I truly feel this is the reason Bonds is where he is. Right guy, same mistakes as everyone else, right place, WRONG time. But you know, the people on this Blog are not obsessed with race issues, its 99% purely a baseball blog, with humor, and insight, and a hell of a lot of analysis and info that I can’t get anywhere else. If you want to be mad at people, be mad at the scores of players that could step up & help Bond’s position, with a scene straight out of Spartacus.

      “I did steroids”
      “I did steroids”
      “I did HGH”
      “I used Andros”
      “No, My name is Barry Bonds”
      “We’re all Reggie Stocker!”

      Then his name would be cleared *except for lying to the grand jury* and maybe he would be playing right now….but the blame lies neither with an issue of race, nor with people that suggest the issue of race.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      Hey Billy, I know you and I have gone back and forth on some stuff, but i gotta say…

      The fact that Joey H is agreeing with you SHOULD SCARE THE FUCK OUT OF YOU. After reading his posts on this thread, it’s crystal clear that he’s on crack right now, as we speak.

      You might have to re-evaluate your whole worldview, based on nothing else other than that point.

  • A.D.

    Whats with all the Casey Blake talk? is it his 265/335/445 career line? do we suddenly need a corner inf?

    • steve (different one)

      Cashman has 10 days to get him or he should be fired.

    • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

      who knwos people come up with stuff like blake because i believe everyone has similar needs, just trying to find more options

      • steve (different one)

        Blake is OK, and wouldn’t be terrible, just having a little fun with some of the overreacting in this thread.

        • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

          the maain reason is obvious, he wont demand as many prospecs like a bay or nady, same reason ibanez’s name keeps getting thrown around

  • Casper

    does this thread remind anyone else of the last scene in fight club, with ed norton and helena bonham carter watching the city explode and crumble around them, scored by the pixies’ “where is my mind”?

  • mustang

    At this point it’s make a deal or kiss 2008 goodbye. The Yankees are barely scoring as is without Posada’s and Matsui’s bats they can forget it. Rumors are flying especially with the Pirates who want:

    “two high-level young players and a second-tier prospect in any trade for left fielder Jason Bay and at least one top youngster and one solid prospect in return for right fielder Xavier Nady, shortstop Jack Wilson and left-handed relievers John Grabow and Damaso Marte.”

    The price for Bay seems high especially with the fact that he hasn’t hit lefties well since 2006, but Nady’s price seems a little more reasonable. I agree with the earlier thread and I don’t see the need to give up prospects just to have a left-handed reliever when the bullpen is pitching so well, but Marte would be nice.

  • zack

    Bonds might be a jerk and have used steroids, unofficially, but he is the one obvious solution here…

    • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

      zack how? we have damon giambi, potientally jorge as all DH candidates. the last thing we need is another one. we need an outfielder who can PLAY

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

        amazing. I’ve seen pathological liars on amphetamines who are more reasoned and thoughtful than you. You’re a marvel.

        • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

          listen asshole i had enough of your shit. if you see my comments and you dont like they DONT COMMENT

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

            No, Joey, don’t stop… you’re hilarious.

            Poster of the year.

  • Pingback: River Ave. Blues | Game 99: Johnny’s back, but it’s probably too soon

  • BigBlueAL

    Honestly I hope Cashman does something because he owes it to the players who despite all the injuries and “bad” play so far are right there and really a trade like the Abreu trade in 06 could easily put them over the top. I love the idea of getting Jason Bay.

    • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

      yea well what im thinking is will there be a trade that comes out of nowhere like the abreu one did. and personally speaking i feel that bay is overrated

    • cult of basebaal

      jason bay would be a welcome sight in left.

      what would you think would be a fair trade for him, from the pirates’ perspective?

      • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

        i dont think we should get him mman, thats the whole point he is overrated and is demanding too many prospects(the gm) and the same story for nady who has hit better for average, roughly 45 points better

        • cult of basebaal

          i actually wasn’t replying to you, but rather to bigblueal’s post. i was merely curious what he thought would be fair.

          • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

            no i know im not knocking you you had a good point

    • mustang

      Bay is batting about .220 vs lefties since the end of 2006 same problem different name.

      • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

        lma o great point i think that is our problem anyway, its definately our problem if we went out and got richie sexon lmao

  • BillyBall

    Glen L says:
    July 21st, 2008 at 6:02 pm

    Look man you’re certainly entitled to your opinion, but there’s a stark difference between Clemens and Bonds … Bonds put up GREAT GREAT numbers last year whereas Clemens did not

    Bonds put up Great Great numbers huh? 2007 statistics: 28 HR, 66 RBI’s, .276 Batting Average. Those are GREAT GREAT numbers huh! They were definitely not awful by no stretch of the imagination when you factor that he had a 565 slugging percentage played on a team with a weak offense but also played in a band box, but by no means is that GREAT GREAT. Alex Rodriguez put up GREAT GREAT numbers, Barroid who is 45 years old had a good season.

    Clemens was 6-6 with a 4.18 ERA in 100 innings. Not GREAT GREAT but not TERRIBLE TERRIBLE either when you factor that he pitched in the American League. So I guess you can come to the conclusion that Clemens who use to be beloved by the state of Texas is now not wanted and lost all mark ability because of his arrogance and denial with the use of steroids. Yeah, I definitely see racism there Glen!

    • steve (different one)

      San Fran is a pitcher’s park.

      i’ll leave you with that b/c i’m not really interested in the race argument.

      • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

        yeah agreed steve, listen stop being a hypocrite, you dont want racism so stop making an issue out of what glen sayd! its hard to take into context what people are saying on here, they can be sarcastic, serious so just really drop it.

    • Glen L.

      Dude ….

      Barry Bonds had a .480 OBP .. .480! (He led ALL of mlb)!! .. he slugged 565 and had an OPS + of 170 … he was 70% than an average left fielder playing his home games in San Fran .. that’s just insane

      Clemens had an ERA + of 107 .. it was 7% better than an average pitcher in yankee stadium .. that is decidedly pedestrian

      so yeah Bonds had a GREAT GREAT season … clemens was unspectacular

  • BillyBall

    Last Clown states:

    “Then his name would be cleared *except for lying to the grand jury* and maybe he would be playing right now….but the blame lies neither with an issue of race, nor with people that suggest the issue of race.”

    I agree with your comment that the blame lies neither with an issue of race, I believe that was my point and somewhere along the line you missed it and went in a different direction. I have to say the last part about people that suggest the issue of race should not be blamed, well that is a tough concept when the fact is many people including those on this site and some in the media do use his race as a the reason he is not on a major league club. That is hard to swallow, seeing that he along with Clemens and Palmiero who by the way is not on a MLB team have all been the poster boys of this ugly era like it or not!

    The Fact is that if you Last Clown can agree that Bonds not being on a MLB team has nothing to do with race, your agreeing with me and that is my point!

    • TheLastClown

      I know, I was agreeing with you. I apologize if the timbre of my post didn’t reflect that :)

      I also wanted to give my opinion on what it was, if not race, that is keeping Bonds in a realm of his own apart from guys like Palmeiro and Clemens, in terms of public opinion and hype.

      My point, aside from the ones about Bonds, was that you can’t really blame people for saying reactionary things like that. The reaction to a situation is never the cause of the situation. And I wanted to expound on what I felt the cause of the situation was, and how his circumstances are dissimilar from other players. But yes, I was agreeing with you about Barry, not about the folks on this Blog.

  • BillyBall

    Joey, if your telling me Glen is being sarcastic, than fine, it will stop, but if he truley believes it is a race issue why cant I take exception with that. And please do me a favor, calling me a hypocrite for arguing over a hateful comment is pretty idiotic on your part, wouldn’t you agree pal?

    • http://derekjetersbat.blogspot.com/ Joey H

      the point is if you want hypocritical stuff off this site then you need to not make it an issue your self.

    • Glen L.

      Did i say something hateful? I certainly didn’t intend anything I said to be interpreted as such. If you took something that way, I apologize

  • BillyBall

    Joey H says:
    July 21st, 2008 at 6:55 pm

    the point is if you want hypocritical stuff off this site then you need to not make it an issue your self.

    True Joey, the only problem with this statement is when someone posts something stating that the color of Bonds skin is why he is not playing on a MLB team, well hypocritical or not, that statement can and will cause many negative feelings especially when ignorant people that know no better may agree. So to be fair, those statements are best not said especially when they are not true. Instead of lecturing me and defending your buddy, maybe you can address him for the ignorant comment made.

    Glen L. says:
    July 21st, 2008 at 10:00 pm

    Did i say something hateful? I certainly didn’t intend anything I said to be interpreted as such. If you took something that way, I apologize

    Yes Glen, you stated that Bonds was not playing in MLB based on the color of his skin while Petite and Giambi were! That is what you stated and if you were being sarcastic, just say so, but if that is how you genuinely feel, I have to argue that statement because it does conjure up negative and hateful thoughts as well as racist views which for one is not necessary on this website and two are just ignorant in thought and expression which was in fact expressed via your post.

    • Glen L.

      I wasn’t being sarcastic, I didn’t necessarily mean he doesn’t have a job because he’s black, I meant I think he gets treated differently by the media and by some fans because he’s black

      I don’t mean that to be hateful, I think its disgusting. I don’t see why we can’t have discussion of such things on thise website about such things

      You may disagree with me, and that’s just fine, but i’m certainly not an ignorant person because we have divergent opinions on a matter

  • Rob_in_CT

    Whether it’s race or otherwise, Barry Bonds is held to a different standard than other cheaters. I don’t really give a shit what the reason for the double standard is: I’m just pointing it out. And it’s just stupid of the Yankees to not to look into bringing him in.

    Brett Gardner is not a major leaguer. The trade market is uninspiring. For all the WIN NOW! MOVE IT, CASHMAN!!! guys, Bonds is the obvious answer. I’m not one of those guys, so I”ll live if the Yanks punt this season.