The Washburn deal won’t come easy

Yanks, firing on all cylinders, roll over Twins again
Game 101: Momentum is only as good as tomorrow's starter

As rumors continue to mount about a Jarrod Washburn-to-the-Yanks deal, a few developments late last night have me thinking that this won’t be a quick or easy deal. In fact, these sticking points could portend the collapse of a deal with a team notable for its unwillingness to trade. Ken Rosenthal reports that Washburn’s limited no-trade clause may complicate things. Jarrod could veto a deal to the Yanks, according to Rosenthal’s sources, and while one way to placate the lefty would be more cash, the Yanks aren’t going to be too willing to kick more money into Washburn after they pick up his hefty contract.

Meanwhile, Jon Heyman reports that the Mariners may want the Yankees to take Jose Vidro too. Vidro would be dead weight on the Yanks, and his contract complicates these talks as well. Of course, right now, this is all just rumor and conjecture from unnamed sources, but it goes a long way toward illustrated why we as a fanbase shouldn’t put too much stock into these various reports. The Yanks may be kicking the tires on Washburn, but it takes a lot more that interest to seal a deal when millions of dollars are at stake.

Yanks, firing on all cylinders, roll over Twins again
Game 101: Momentum is only as good as tomorrow's starter
  • Yank Crank 20

    Please, pleeeeaaaaase don’t trade for Jarrod Washburn. Save all that money that would come with his contract for Sabathia and keep plugging those pitching holes away. We made the choice to live and die with Hughes and Kennedy this year, so let them come back healthy and take a shot at redemption. If they can’t do it, either Aceves or Horne can (health permitting).

    • Joseph P.

      I don’t think the money left on his contract is an issue at all.

      • tommiesmithjohncarlos

        Agreed. For a team with about 80M coming off the books next year moving into a new stadium, adding 1 year and 10M of Washburn money would be a total non-factor in our involvement the Sabathia sweepstakes.

        • RustyJohn

          If they want to get Sabathia or any other big free agent next year, Washburn pushes them above the luxury tax level- you want to pay another 40 cents on the dollar for a guy who is equal to, if not just marginally better than, Karstens, Rasner, IPK (assuming he improves marginally if called up again) or Giese? He’s got a WHIP of 1.5, an ERA+ of 84. That’s worth 10+ million a year? (Rasner WHIP of 1.5 ERA+ of 85 and he doesn’t play in the cavern that is Safeco)

          Just because I’ve got twenty bucks in my pocket doesn’t mean I have to go to the Red Robin and spend it on a burger and fries when I can hit the Mickey D’s 99 cent menu and get pretty much the same thing for $2.16.

  • JW

    The Mariners really have no ground to stand on though. They have a terrible team and need to make changes.

    They don’t have to trade Washburn, that’s their choice. But they really can’t say to a team, “Hey, you want Jarrod? You have to take Vidro.”

    Everyone knows Vidro’s dead weight. Only other team I can think of that he could start on is Washington, and that’s even pushing it.

    You can’t reasonably expect the Yankees to take on two terrible contracts for Igawa+1. Igawa’s contract, if he’s a back end starter, is more than reasonable.

    Granted, money isn’t really a sticking point for the Yanks, but the entire principle of taking on Jose Vidro is ridiculous. If it was Bedard, sure, Vidro can come along to ride the pine for a day or two before being released. But this is Washburn, not Bedard.

    But in the end, this could all just come down to writer speculation we’ll all be lucky enough to say we still have good old Kei Igawa in SW-B.

    • A.D.

      Actually with the Bonafico trade, and the Guzman extension, there really isn’t anywhere for him to play in Washington…he’s terrible

  • jsbrendog

    how many years does vidro have left on his contract?? if next yr is his last and they really want to dump him, cant we just take him, make seattle pay fr the rest of this yr and say we’ll pay for next yr and then just dfa him??? its only money to the yankees, and yeah washburn isnt worth all that but who cares?? its the yankees

    (i realize the stupidity of this statement, no need to point it out…while it is meant mostly in jest, there is some seriousness to it)

    • Jamal G.

      He is in the final year of his 4-year/$37.5M deal.

      • A.D.

        Theres a vesting option for 2009, which I couldn’t find what the vest was, that the mariners gave him for waiving his no trade from Washington (this is per cot’s baseball contracts).

        • Jamal G.

          You know what’s funny? I actually went to Cot’s and looked directly at Jose Vidro but somehow completely missed the part that said “…plus 2009 vesting option”.

        • cult of basebaal

          somebody else dug it up from the seattle PI … it’s for 6 mil and it vests after 600 at bats in 2008 (it’s a compound total for 07+08, but there needs to be at least 600 at bats in 08)

  • pat

    this is interesting and all Ben….. BUT WHAT ABOUT MY YELLOW TEETH?????

  • Chip

    If the Yankees are going to take Vidro, this deal might as well be for a PTBNL because there’s no way we take on so much salary and risk and still have to give up someone valuable.

    I’m all for waiting it out to see if the Mexican Gangster or Kennedy can fill that back-end role. With out surprisingly lights-out bullpen, we only need our fifth starter to go 5 or 6 innings and keep us in the game.

    That reminds me, can you imagine how good this bullpen is going to be for the next few years? I mean you have Rivera the immortal one holding down the back end while Veras, Edwar, Robertson and Giese have pitched extraordinarily well. Add to that the fact that Britton and Bruney are both coming back with Melancon and Cox down in the minors (not to mention Strickland, possibly Claggett and Horne/Sanchez who I think will end up in the pen) and we could have quite the pen for a few years. Now only if we could keep our starters healthy……….

    • Count Zero

      Shhhhh…don’t jinx us. ;-)

    • Chris

      I don’t think you can project bullpen success at all (at least not for specific players). There are only a couple of players that you can expect to be good relievers for more than the next year, and they are pretty much all closers. Just look at Boston’s pen issues this year.

      However, I think that the way Cashman has constructed the bullpen will lead to a good pen for the next few years, even if we can’t predict exactly who will be in it. There are 12-15 quality arms, and he just throws them all against the wall and sees who sticks. The other guys go back to the minors to wait for the next opportunity.

  • daneptizl

    If only Chris Britton would really get a chance.

  • mustang

    Ben, please give me some range because this has nothing to do with this thread, but it’s one of the dumbest things I have ever heard on the FAN. Coming home from the gym right now I heard the host on FAN actually blaming Santana for not pitching a compete game last night. To make things worst Met Fan after Met fan agree as they compare Santana and Roy Halladay this why the Mets will always be second to the Yanks just plain old stupidity.
    Sorry again for the off thread comment.

    • tommiesmithjohncarlos

      WARNING: The Surgeon General Has Determined That Listening to WFAN 660 AM Can Cause Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, Stupidity, And May Complicate Pregnancy. Listening to WFAN 660 AM By Pregnant Women May Result in Fetal Injury, Premature Birth, And Low Birth Weight. WFAN 660 AM Contains High Levels of Carbon Monoxide and Idiotic, Counterintuitive, Contradictory Nonsensical Statements That Impair Your Ability to Reason and Think Logically. Do Not Operate Heavy Machinery While Listening To WFAN 660 AM. Quitting Listening Now Greatly Reduces Serious Risks to Your Health.

      • mustang

        You are too funny your one of the best commenter.

  • A.D.

    I thin Washburn would be a nice pick-up, but not necessary, though if Rasner & Ponson pitch like this time through the rotation, then no worries, and he’d be a nice insurance for next year, albeit expensive insurance.

    I imagine right now Seattle is blowing smoke to try and get the double salary dump, who wouldn’t. They have a lot of bad contracts to deal with after Bavasi’s debacle (Kenji Jojima extension???, why) so if they can clean some of them off, then it doesn’t look so bad, and maybe they can get a bat.

    As I wrote above Vidro has some type of vesting option for ’09 as part of waving his no trade, don’t know how it vests.

    • Count Zero

      Agreed. If we do have to pay Vidro in ’09 then this is a straight salary dump — PTBNL is all they get. Even Quest is too good for them. (Did I just say that?!?)

  • E-ROC

    LOL, Jay Gibbons gets signed by the Brewers, but Barry Bonds can’t even sniff a contract offer.

    • jsbrendog

      maybe he should write a letter……plus gibbons isnt under indictment

  • jsbrendog

    just do it fopr igawa, get him out of there, and then dfa vidro cause its only money and the yankees have it. its his last yr, the salary is prorated and we’ll have wasburn for igawa. throwing in vidro and just dfa ing him is the same as trading cash except requires oen mroe step

    • Chip

      This isn’t a million though, that’s a good chunk of change. If he were with Bedard, sure but Washburn isn’t THAT great of a pitcher and we’re already on the hook for his salary as well with this deal

  • dkidd

    i’d rather deal for a hitter at this point. the bullpen seems like it can get us through until cmw is back

    • mustang

      Agree, but if it’s just for Igawa and maybe a garbage prospect I would do it. There no need for Virdo.

  • jsbrendog

    the bullpen has been great, but farnsworth and edwar are not going to pitch no htiters until the middle fo september and wang will be rusty and need rehab assignments…..and ponson\rasner are 5-6 innning pitchers……..

  • Manimal

    Turns out that Rockies want IPK for Fuentes. I’d do it. They want Clay Buccholz from the Sox.

    • Ben K.

      Why? The bullpen clearly isn’t broken. No need to trade one of our blue-chip prospects of top trading pieces for someone who doesn’t fill a need.

      • mustang

        Totally agree IPK for a reliever on his walk year.
        No thank you.

      • A.D.

        Agreed, Fuentes is completely unnecessary at this point, the pen is our strongest point, and there is other guys waiting in the minors in Britton, Melancon, Cox, Strickland. No point to give up IPK, unless the Yanks are trying to give up on him and want 2 draft picks instead….but I doubt thats the case.

      • Jon W.

        Agree completely. Trading IPK for Fuentes would be completely ridiculous. Since Cash would never even consider it, there’s really no point in even discussing it.

      • jsbrendog

        exactly, its a starter or a bat.

        washburn – this yr fills aneed, a lefty starter who can handle the sox, signed for next yr. so he pitches this yr and if moose and pettite are gone that gives us another starter. this is a good deal because if mosse and pettite come back and ipk and hughes are ready then washburn can slot into the pen or if not then you can trade him and get something back (which will inevitably be better than igawa)

        this trade makes so much sense on so many levels esp since hughes is back to square one because this yr was a washout

        • daneptizl


          • jsbrendog

            funny i know because next yr a rotation of joba and oh wait…..if moose and pettitte leave and we’re obviously not going to keep ponson, and rasner isnt very good….so we have joba and wang…\

            that leaves 3 spots…and hughes is right back to his innings cap he was on this yr cause he hasnt pitched. and ipk will be too. and neither one is a given. sure we can hope theyll be better than this year but who’s to say???

            yeah trading for a serviceable innings eater is stupid esp when it should only cost $$ or igawa…cause hes a 20 game winner waiting to happen

            • daneptizl

              This is too easy to counter. Sabathia, Wang, Hughes, Joba, Pettitte, Kennedy. Hughes and Kennedy can be serviceable, albeit not innings-eaters, so that should give them each 15 wins in your view point, right? Then you have alternate starters in AAA with Horne, McCutchen, Aceves. So yeah, we should also go get Washburn with the .318 BAA against the Sox this year and his 5.32 ERA against them in the past 3 years. He’s our hired gun for them. Welcome aboard, Sox Killer!!!

    • keith

      The bullpen is fine and Fuentes is a 32yr old rental. They won’t get very far asking for shit like that.

    • Manimal

      I wasnt saying Fuentes for IPK clean, work a deal around it, with Holliday.

      • daneptizl

        Thank goodness.

      • mustang

        Wow. That Holliday part is bit of important information missing for your original comment don’t you think.

        • mustang

          No disrespect.

      • Ben K.

        At this point, though, the conversation is still pointless because there’s no way the Rockies would give up their two best trading chips in a package highlighting IPK.

        • TurnTwo

          beat me to it.

          you’d prob have to at least throw in AJackson, which in Cashman’s eyes derails the whole thing right there.

          • steve (different one)

            and Hughes.

            for starters.

        • mustang

          Agree, but stranger things have happened.

      • TurnTwo

        and if we’re talking packaging, i really think you could get Bay and Marte for cheaper than you could get Holliday and Fuentes.

        at least for pittsburgh, they have positional prospects high in their system, so you could prob throw high upside pitching to make it all work.

        • Glen L

          Why? They don’t have to trade either .. .Marte will get them 2 picks and Bay is still signed through next year at a reasonable rate given his production

        • Chris

          You should be able to get Bay and Marte cheaper, but it sounds like the Pirates are asking for way too much.

      • radnom

        “I wasnt saying Fuentes for IPK clean”

        “Turns out that Rockies want IPK for Fuentes. I’d do it.”

        uhhh, yeah you were.

        hey I know! Lets trade away from the weakest part of the team to bolster the strongest part!!!

  • r.w.g.

    Because Kei Igawa will never be a good major league pitcher, I understand Seattle’s point. Igawa will never, ever, ever help them win a game. Never.

    Washburn would be nice, but doesn’t he have another year after this on his contract? In an off-season with Sheets and Sabathia out there, Moose and Andy up, Hughes/Kennedy/Aceves/McCutcheon/somebody down on the farm.. does anyone really want to be locked into Jarrod Washburn for next year?

    I could live with taking on Vidro this year (hey, it’s not my money) if his option for next year doesn’t vest. I don’t know what his role would be though.. he isn’t hitting and he doesn’t really play defense after all his injuries over the years.

    What about Brad Penny or Derek Lowe? Penny has about the same money coming to him as Washburn and he’s better. I don’t know if he’s hurt or if the Dodgers would entertain dealing him, though.

    • jsbrendog

      yes, because if you dont sign a free agent and moose and pettitte retire youre screwed, btu if you end up not needing washburn, you put him in the bullpen or trade him in the offseason. No matter what you do youre return will AT LEAST equal what you give up for him esp iof its just $$ and igawa and a b prospect.

      what’s that saying, that one….you can never have enough ptiching?? just ask milwaukee who came in with like ten pitchers, and then ended up beign short because of injuries and ineffectiveness….yup…its stupid to give up enxt to nothign for an insurance policy

      • r.w.g.

        I don’t know what post you just read.. but I never said it was stupid to trade for Jarrod Washburn.

        I’m just pointing out, you’ve got him for next year.

        • TurnTwo

          which to me is a good thing. lefty veteran pitcher on a reasonable, one year contract.

          • r.w.g.

            Dunno if I would say Washburn’s contract is reasonable at $10 million for a 4.5 ERA. It’s the Yankees, they can afford it, no doubt.

            He’s better than Ponson, I guess. I would definitely prefer Washburn to AJ Burnett, however.

            Washburn is attractive because he only costs money. Let’s not overstate things and act like it’s awesome he’s on the team for next year.

            • jsbrendog

              no disagreement there, but the mantra of cashmans moves this r have been its just money and not prospects, plus 1 yr doesnt block anyone and gives breathing room and maneuverablilty

              plus, he’s serviceable and has won a WS with anaheim so he’s not some schlepp who has no idea whats going on lol

        • jsbrendog

          my bad, i read the question fo does anyone really want to be locked into a yr of washburn as you being anti…but hes not so bad where it would be stupid to do it if its only money as insurance. plus like i said if we fill the rotation with other guys and he becomes unnecessary you flip him to st louis lol who always needs a new jeff weaver or another pitchign starved national league team who will gladly take AL castoffs

  • Joey H

    yeah idk if its in ur post but i read they dont want melky, so if we were to ship melky that opens up another hole in the outfield, making it obvious cash is gonna get an outfielder or has a sturdy plan in place

  • cult of basebaal

    vidro option:

    ( “…according to a source with knowledge of Vidro’s contract, his 2009 option (for $6 million) kicks in at 625 plate appearances in 2008, or 1,150 plate appearances in 2007-08, of which 600 of those plate appearances are in 2008.”

    • jsbrendog

      so if you get him and cut him hes effed lol

  • Joltin’ Joe

    My blog has a nice article on this.

    • radnom

      lol did you make the blog specifically for this story?

  • xkevinx

    I would do IPK for Fuentes. I don’t really see Kennedy helping much this year, and with Fuentes you get 2 draft picks, and a nasty bullpen this year. Everyone is down on washburn for next year, but I can’t imagine he would do worse than Kennedy at the back end of the rotation.

  • Steve

    “this is all just rumor and conjecture from unnamed sources”

    Which is to say, its a John Heyman article.

  • younguns

    Why the hell would we want to bail out the Seattle Mariners from the huge mess that they made for themselves?

    Brian Cashman said it best a few years ago…

    “We’re no longer going to be anyone’s sugar daddy”

    The Mariners created this huge shit sandwich so what could possibly convince any member of the Yankee Front Office or any Yankee fan with a brain to willingly take bites out of it?

    Has anyone here who has advocated for the Yankees to trade for Washburn or any other piece of unproductive Mariner trash visited a Seattle Mariner fan site/blog lately?

    Not Pretty.

    And for those fans that say that it’s only money that the Yankees are giving up, just remember that the luxury tax that was created by MLB was meant to punish the New York Yankees. This damn tax is used by MLB to take from the Yankees & fund cheap ass teams like Tampa Bay so that they can come back & kick our asses with talent funded by the stupidity of our reckless & wasteful spending.

    The rest of the teams of Major League Baseball has always been comforted in knowing that the Yankees can be relied upon to relieve them of their bad contracts & picking up cheap, young talent at the same time.

    Let’s break this cycle of mindless stupidity once & for all. After all, isn’t it bad enough that the Yankees have inflicted themselves with the likes of Kei Igawa & Carl Pavano?

    Just Say No!!