With Matsui setback, Bonds speculation grows

Longest All Star Game ever
Tampa Bay coming back to earth

Yesterday afternoon, as I noted then, Hideki Matsui called his setback “short-term.” Today, we find out that the news may be worse. Matsui’s knee has swelled up again, and the AP reports that he will likely need surgery. Within the same report comes speculation that the Yanks could turn to Barry Bonds to fill the Matsui void. However, Brian Cashman doesn’t seem to want to go down that path. No matter, Matsui’s injury is bad news for the Bombers.

Longest All Star Game ever
Tampa Bay coming back to earth
  • TurnTwo

    i would say at this point its a no brainer, but i think we’ve already been down the road with this conversation already. what more needs to be said, or can be added?

    • Geno

      The situation has evolved. Opinions evolve. Is this too difficult for you to grasp? I can’t break it down any more than that, so if it’s over your head, I’m afraid you’re SOL.

      • TurnTwo

        no reason to get salty. i was just kind of starting the thread bc there were no comments yet.

      • whozat

        “The situation has evolved.”

        But we’ve already anticipated this development and discussed what might make sense in the event that Matsui needs surgery. So…what more can we really add? We’ve already said that, if Matsui goes down, Bonds is an option that makes a loooot more sense all of a sudden because you’re looking to replace DH ABs.

  • Rich

    If you were willing to sign Clemens for stupid money, you should be willing to sign Bonds for the baseball equivalent of no money.

    • steve (different one)

      i basically agree on Bonds, but the Clemens analogy doesn’t really hold.

      all of these allegations about Clemens came out after last season.

      of course, you could say the Yankees and everyone else within the game probably know which players did and didn’t use, but not signing Bonds isn’t a moral stand, it’s a PR move.

      • Rich

        True, but there were suspicions about Clemens given the resurgence he experienced so late in his career.

  • pat

    all this “speculation” seems to be coming from no name journaists looking for some attention by throwing bonds’ name around. Eff barry bonds he is a piece of garbage.

    despite his less that stellar splits (which could be attributed to playing his away games in alot of pitchers parks in the nl west) i think a holliday trade is a possibility. It looked almost effortless for him to flip that ervin santana 97 mph fastball over the wall in right last night. If it really is true colorado likes ipk maybe we could.put together a nice package without having to deal melancon.

    also a big eff you to people who want bullpen help if its not broke dont fix it.

    • Chip

      I agree on the bullpen help but I don’t think we need to make a huge move for an outfielder. If anything, how about sending down christian and bringing up Carson? The guy has power, speed and defense so why not give him a shot?

      • TurnTwo

        if Cashman continues to refuse to sign Bonds, or swing a deal, it cant hurt.

        might as well get a good look at all of your young players now and evaluate them for next year if thats the case.

    • TurnTwo

      that actually wasnt Matt Holliday who hit that HR, but an evil twin.

      the real Matt Holliday is only a great hitter at Coors Field.

      • whozat

        Yes. Because we’ve all claimed that Holliday is crap outside of Coors.

        You’re setting up a strawman. His numbers are Matsui-like on the road. Which is good. But it’s just not worth David Price for a year and two months of his services. The Rox value him like he’s Manny Ramirez and he just doesn’t have that kind of value to another team.

        • TurnTwo

          and having a Matsui-like player who is younger and more athletic, and brings RH power to the lineup, is a bad thing?

          there is a difference of opinion between us about Holliday’s true value, both on the field and in the clubhouse.

          do the rockies overvalue him? yeah, probably.

          will Holliday be overpaid for his next contract? yeah, probably.

          but he is a perennial all-star caliber player who is still on the right side of 30 years old and who’s been in a pennant race and excelled. he’s a level headed family man who cares about coming to the ballpark everyday, and who admired Cal Ripken to his day in and out commitment to coming to the ballpark and playing everyday.

          i just think he’s the type of guy i dont mind overpaying a little bit for who can come in, fit in the clubhouse, and bring with him a new attitude and commitment to winning.

          now, i’m not saying empty the farm system for him overpay… within reasonable limits here. but will i include a phil hughes if he is open to talking extention if he’s traded? yeah, i would.

          • whozat

            “and having a Matsui-like player who is younger and more athletic, and brings RH power to the lineup, is a bad thing?”

            Not at all. But, if the price is Hughes plus other interesting pieces and then a long, expensive contract for a guy who’s already a poor fielder…why is that something we’d want to do? Unless he’s Manny Ramirez 5 years ago, I’m not sure I can deal with his defense in RF.

            If we were in the market for a LFer and had another solid 26 year old MLB-caliber pitcher in the rotation right now, maybe I’d feel OK about trading Hughes for Holliday.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      Yes, “Eff Barry Bonds.”

      He truly his a piece of garbage… a piece of garbage who is ALWAYS ON BASE.

  • zs190

    They asked for David Price for Holliday, I don’t think they would suddenly take IPK for him. They only like IPK enough to trade Fuentes for him.

  • Count Zero

    The Matsui situation was predictable — I said last week I wasn’t expecting anything from him this season.

    Now, I want to see one of two things happen:

    a) Play it like we still have a shot — sign Bonds and maybe go after Nady too. Hope Ponson can hang on for a few more starts.
    b) Play it like we’re thinking of the future — dump anything you can dump and start making moves to build the 2009 outfield — which right now looks like a frickin’ disaster. Let Gardner make or break himself from here to the end of the season. September is MiLB player showcase month. Let the veterans ride some pine and get some of these young pitchers up to see what they got against MLB hitting.

    • TurnTwo

      agreed. you go one way or the other. as a fan, while i prefer the ‘go for it’ route, im ok with either scenerio as long as they commit to it.

      • JohnnyC

        That’s what is worrying me. Unless Cash is being extremely cagey, he’s really giving out signs that there is no Plan B so to speak. If they really wanted to go for it this year, don’t you think Cash would have/should have made moves already…not wait for the deadline? I think the organization is too concerned about the PR fallout from tossing in the towel on 2008. Which is a sign that they still don’t fully understand that if you don’t make it to the Series, just getting to the post-season is not sexy, realistic or not. And wasn’t that the attitude of late we criticized Torre for?

        • whozat

          “Unless Cash is being extremely cagey”

          Given that Cash has always played it close to the vest, isn’t there plenty of reason to think that this is true?

          “If they really wanted to go for it this year, don’t you think Cash would have/should have made moves already…not wait for the deadline?”

          To force another team’s hand, you have to overpay a bit. That only makes sense if you really think you’re right on the verge and the move you make puts you over the top. That’s just not the case with this team. If you’re looking to make a smart move that sets the team up better now AND for the future, you let the market develop and move when the prices are right.

          • TurnTwo

            agreed. Cashman has always laid low when it comes to deals.

            and i’m willing to overpay slightly for the right player at the right time, but there is no way i’m throwing extra players into a deal just bc we needed to plug a hole, and another organization wasnt ready to deal yet.

    • Clayton

      What is the fascination with Nady? This reeks of a career year that will come crashing down next year. He is +.040 in OBP over his career average and +.070 in slugging over his career average.

      Bay should be the one to trade for. His numbers are similar to Nady’s and are consistent with his career numbers. Both are 29.

      • Count Zero

        That would be even better but I think costlier. I just used Nady as a symbol for: an OF who isn’t too costly, can hit, and would be with us again in ’09.

        • whozat

          But the point is that Nady WOULD be fairly costly. He’s having a career year. Trading for him at the peak of his value would be kinda dumb. He’s extremely likely to return to being a merely above-average hitter next year, as opposed to the borderline all-star that he is this season.

  • JohnC

    No way on Bonds. We have enough distractions as it is with Arod’s personal life clogging up the newspapers and the media firestorm this has created.

    • whozat

      Do you really think ARod’s divorce is affecting the rest of the team’s ability to get on base and hit with runners in scoring position?

      • daneptizl

        It’s the only answer.

    • Count Zero

      This whole “distraction” argument is way overblown. The NY media has a field day with the Yankees no matter what happens, and the national media will find something bad to write about them no matter what because it sells advertising. If A-Rod wasn’t getting divorced, the articles would be about how the highest payroll team in MLB isn’t producing, or about how the new Steinbrenner generation isn’t the same as the old, or how A-Rod isn’t a winner…pick your topic du jour.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      Honestly, what the hell is all this “distractions” bullshit that some of you keep repeating? Point out to me the players on the team who are underperforming because they’re distracted. I see a bunch of veterans in Jeter, ARod, Giambi, Damon, Matsui, Pettitte, Mussina, Posada, Wang, etc. who (when healthy) are putting up great numbers and haven’t been “distracted” by shit.

      And as for the youngsters like Melky, Cano, Gardner, Hughes, etc… if anything, there’s not ENOUGH “distraction”. There’s a MUCH, MUCH bigger chance that the play of some of our struggling players IMPROVES if we add the quote-unquote “media circus” of Reggie Stocker than the opposite, because the spotlight will shift away from Cano pressing or Hughes rehabbing or Gardner finding a groove, etc. etc., they’ll just be able to go and do their work and improve while all the hacks crowd around ARod and Barry Lamar’s locker every night.

  • BillyBall

    Yes, let’s bring in a guy with zero character and throw him in the mix. I rather not make the playoffs than bring that surly arrogant jackass onto the team. Listen, we had Sheffield last year with his arrogance. We had Clemens as well, except he was a positive influence but a steroid junky nonetheless. Lets not continue down that nasty trend.

    • raymagnetic ®™

      Sidney Ponson is on the team. A guy who got caught driving under the influence multiple times. How much character does he have? At least Bonds steroids usage is only hurting himself.

      • TurnTwo

        not only that, but lets remember, too, he was kicked off his other team this year for drinking heavily and apparently getting into fights with teammates in the clubhouse, and at bars after games.

        • Kay Sturns

          i thought it was ok since he is foreign???

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      First of all, there’s not a “mix”. It’s a professional baseball team. “Bad Character” doesn’t poison a locker room, losing and playing like crap poisons a locker room. Barry may have “Bad Character”, but that’s not why his teams won or lost, they won or lost because the team around him was good or bad. “Mixes” don’t win championships, talent does. We need talent, Barry Bonds has it.

  • mike

    hey guys – just a quickie – is there any reason why Bench/ Seaver /Ryan/ Morgan weren’t there last night – it seemed the whole generation was under-represented

  • pat

    cashman is like a duck.

    on the surface he is calm and collected.

    below the surface he is furiously working to get ahead.

    why do u think he always looks so strung out?

  • Henry Chinaski

    “cashman is like a duck.

    on the surface he is calm and collected.

    below the surface he is furiously working to get ahead.

    why do u think he always looks so strung out?”

    —great post brother, I’m hungover like a bastard and had to read it a couple of time to make sure I read that first sentence right

    Cashman looks like he hasn’t slept since 1989, he should start drinking to relax

    Seems a playoff spot is there to grab if a couple moves could be made and if people could start to hit in the clutch again— not trading Phil Hughes & neither is Cash-you-Da-MAN

  • MD

    I still think Nady can be had for Ohlendorff

    • whozat

      What support do you have for that?

      Sure, the Pirates are said to “like” Ohlendorf, but that doesn’t mean they’re considering him in a straight-up trade for Nady. The Rays are looking to punch up RF as well and could beat that offer without batting an eye.

    • whozat

      see?

      http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/high-price-for.html

      If the price for Nady is considered to be high and not coming down, he CANNOT be had for Ross Ohlendorf, as much as I like the guy’s stuff out of the bullpen.

    • daneptizl

      I still think we shouldn’t trade for Nady.

  • pounder

    The Bucs like what they saw of Awfuldorf during the Yankees visit to Pittsburgh.The player they should target on that Pirate team is McClouth.Cano and IPK and Melky plus some fair to middling prospect down on the farm would seem to be a fair exchange. Too bad he is a lefty hitter,but I would make that deal in a heartbeat.He seems to this old cowboy like a modern day Bill Virdon,only with power.Thats probably why the Bucs will hold on to him.

    • whozat

      “The player they should target on that Pirate team is McClouth.Cano and IPK and Melky plus some fair to middling prospect down on the farm would seem to be a fair exchange.”

      Wait…WHAT? All that for a guy who has had ONE good half-season at age 26?

      Also…who the hell plays second base after that deal?

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

        McLouth I do like. But Cano for McLouth straight up would be a horrible deal – Cano is younger, is a more accomplished hitter, and plays a position where offense is more valuable. Cano for McLouth would be horrible, nevermind adding Melky and IPK.

        But again, I do like McLouth’s ability, potential, upside, youth, and good combo of offense and defense, and I’d be much more willing to part with good players for McLouth than, say, a Matt Holliday. A deal of Melky, IPK and one of our other prospects (Heredia? Cox? Betances? Sublett?) is more palatable. Just not Cano.

    • TurnTwo

      so he’s having a breakthrough season, is costing just about nothing salary wise, and they are going to trade him?

      why would they do that?

  • BillyBall

    “Bad Character” doesn’t poison a locker room, losing and playing like crap poisons a locker room. Barry may have “Bad Character”, but that’s not why his teams won or lost, they won or lost because the team around him was good or bad. “Mixes” don’t win championships, talent does. We need talent, Barry Bonds has it.

    Once again Tommiesmithjohncarlos, I am gonna have to disagree with that ridiculous statement. A TEAM can have all the talent in the world or be picked to win it all but a few players with bad character can destroy TEAM chemistry. In this situation, the 2008 Yankees once again have a strong foundation centering around Jeter, Posada, Rivera that a player like a Sheffield or Bonds can not weaken that strength. Regardless, as a fan, I have a very hard time rooting for a player such as Barry Bonds and I choose not to sell my soul to add this player who does not by any stretch of the imagination guarantee a World Series. Is he gonna help the rotation issues? Even if the offense improves with his addition, are they better than the Red Sox? Is it worth making the playoffs with a loser like Bonds on the team only to get knocked out in the wild card? I as a fan of Baseball and the records and history and integrity of the game, I as a huge Yankee fan who loves the history, the pride, the mystique would much rather go to war with out a player who embarrassed the game by being so callous about his use of steroids and than lynching on with the likes of Revered Jesse Jackson who blames MLB for being racist and refuses to accept that this person cheated. If he was humble about the whole steroid issue, like Giambi who admitted his use in so many words, than I would be all for bringing him in. But because he choose the easy path which is using the race card and blaming society for his choices, than I have no use for that player on my Yankee team. Not at the expense of our pride, tradition, and grand history my friends. We made the mistake last year with Clemens, lets not make that same mistake. BillyBall for President!

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      Edited by Admin: Comment deleted as per point number 2 on the RAB Commenting Guidelines. Keep it civil, folks.

  • RustyJohn

    Why the fascination with Bonds, who has been out of baseball for 10 months and is under indictment and likely roidless at this point? Does anyone honestly think a 45 year old who is presumably no longer on performance enhancing drugs and a clubhouse cancer is a good option to sign?

    I still say Raul Ibanez- he has decent numbers for a crap team, his contract expires at the end of the year and if Matsui or Damon come back he can easily be dispatched. Although a leftie he has decent numbers against lefties this year and has goon numbers with RISP- no drama, not much money, no long-term commitment.

    • TurnTwo

      “Does anyone honestly think a 45 year old who is presumably no longer on performance enhancing drugs and a clubhouse cancer is a good option to sign?”

      obviously, the answer is yes or else people wouldnt be suggesting it, myself among them.

    • whozat

      If Damon’s coming back, it doesn’t make a LOT of sense to go for Ibanez.

      If I’m Cashman, I think I get Bonds working out for me ASAP, and meanwhile I bring up Miranda to take DH ABs. Guy’s mashing in AAA, but with heinous platoon splits.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      Ibanez is under contract, and thus, we’d have to trade for him. Bonds and Sexson aren’t. That’s why we’re more interested in them than him.

      (also, I assume Bonds has been training and not just sitting around eating bonbons during his break. His agent just said last week he’d be ready to play in 10 days. And all things being equal, I’d take Bonds on a 10 month layoff over Ibanez at his best anyway.)

  • BillyBall

    Rusty for Vice President!

  • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

    We should:

    1) Sign either Bonds or Sexson. We need more bats in the lineup, and they’re both better than all other options. Give Bonds/Sexson AB’s at DH for the forseeable future. When Damon gets back, he goes back into LF and Melky and Gardner alternate in CF. If Matsui comes back (unlikely) and contributes, Bonds/Sexson become our pinch hitter off the bench. Or get DFA’d. No harm, no foul.

    2) Make a small trade for an innings eater to slot in the 4th spot in the rotation behind Pettitte, Moose, and Joba, thus limiting the damage that Raz and the Fatman can cause. I’m thinking of Randy Wolf, Paul Byrd, Bronson Arroyo, Kevin Millwood, Jake Westbrook… something along that level that won’t require anything more than maybe one B-level prospects and a C-level… like a Zach McAllister/Bradley Suttle type of package. If we’re not asking for the moon, we don’t have to pay for it with stars.

    3) Ride it out with this team (plus Bonds and Wolf) and wait for the hopeful returns to health of Wang, Pavano, Hughes, Kennedy, Damon, Matsui, Bruney, and Horne and the promotion of Cox. And, remember that Cano and Jeter will probably continuing to improve and Bobby may get better too…

    4) This offseason, when all that money comes off the books, go sign a frontline starter AND a bat. Everyone knows about Sabathia and just about everyone agrees on the wisdom of that… And everyone knows about Teixeira, who is another great option, but what about a Pat Burrell? He’ll be free this winter, and he’d be a great replacement for Bobby Abreu; good defense, great hitter. He’ll command a big salary, yes, but look at the J.D. Drew deal in Boston. At first, everybody hated it, and now it looks genius. (or, for that matter, look at the Giambi deal…) We need to remember that , best case scenario, our offensive core will be ARod, Jeter, and Posada for the next 3 years, possibly joined by Montero and AJax (if they both work out)… we need more bats to replace those that will depart (just like we need more starters to replace those who’ll retire…)

    5) Don’t rule out making another trade for another good, young offensive player even if we do sign Tex or Burrell or the like. We don’t have many impact offensive players in the system, but we have oodles of pitching. Granted, that’s the way you want to set up your farm, because pitching is so combustible, but if we were able to have a rotation core of Sabathia/Wang/Joba/Hughes, it would make sense to try and swap some of our other pitching prospects for good bats. Our offense has been sporadic this season because we’re old and injury prone, and we need to start developing serious plans for turning the lineup over.

  • bkight13

    This team has no chemistry right now. They have been sleepwalking thru the entire season. I thought Girardi would bring a new fire to the team, but he hasn’t. The team hasn’t hit all year, over 30+ games of scoring 2 runs or less. Don’t blame this on ARod’s divorce which has only been a non-story for a couple weeks. This team is broken and needs to be fixed. Cashman either throws in the towel and develops the kids and gets ready to spend some FA money next year OR he goes for it this year and gets Bonds, Sexson, Marte/Fuentes and a SP here ASAP.

    We’ve had Clemens, Giambi, Pettitte, Ponson and others. I don’t see how Bonds is any worse. He lied about taking steroids, just like 75% of the league.

  • BillyBall

    Lets break down that obnoxious article you just posted.

    1-I agree with signing Sexson and not Bonds, I agree with the platoon of Melky and Gardner when Damon comes back.

    2- I agree with some of this nonsense as well but most teams hold up the Yankees for small fortunes, even for back end rotation guys like Paul Byrd. I wouldn’t mind seeing if McCutcheon or Aceves are an option before I trade away prospects for average borderline junk.

    3-Riding it out is an option and not the worst being that every teams wants to fleece the Yankees in trades! But Cashman is smart and his scouts are even wiser, I’m sure if the right move comes along that will not mortgage the future, the Cash will make it.

    4- This comment makes me laugh. This is the doozy.
    “And everyone knows about Teixeira, who is another great option, but what about a Pat Burrell? He’ll be free this winter, and he’d be a great replacement for Bobby Abreu; good defense, great hitter”.
    Well my friend, Pat Burell is not a good defensive player, actually he is below average defensively and ultimately he is a designated hitter. I love his bat but his defense believe it or not is not an upgrade from Abreau. I would also love to see Abreau go after this season, but hopefully we replace him with a better defensive outfielder. I think we have enough DH types on this team as it is.

    5-Number 5 my friend, we are getting ahead of ourselves with worrying about trading away young pitching which we have an abundance of for young hitting. Lets slow it down, take a deep breath and admit Barry Bondsless is a stupid option.

    • whozat

      “we are getting ahead of ourselves with worrying about trading away young pitching which we have an abundance of for young hitting.”

      Not at all. That’s exactly the right thing to be thinking about. How can we leverage the resources we have in relative abundance (money and young, somewhat interesting righty pitching) to get what we don’t have (youngish position players)?

      • mike

        Ill go even further on Burrell – he is having a great season in a monster lineup in a bandbox.

        The Phillies have been trying to give him away for years, and would have put a bow around him and dropped him off with his duffel if anyone would have just taken his salary off their hands up until this May.

        He is an albatross, and will be a disaster for anyone who signs him

        • mike

          and Drew is a poor comp (IMO) to Burrell- Drew is younger, plays monster defense, great baserunner, better OBP-type guy. Drew can hit in the 2-6 spots in lineup.

          Burrell may have him on pure power, but thats about it

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

            Actually, the Phillies have been shopping him mainly because he wants a payday and has told Philly management he won’t be giving them a hometown discount. They’re already resigned to the fact that with Utley, Howard, and Rollins, they can’t afford to retain Burrell. It’s not a question of his production.

            And no, he’s not going to give you Drew numbers, I acknowledge that. If Drew were available, I’d advocate him instead. I’m just saying Burrell can be a good fallback option if we can’t get Teixeira, but we do need more quality bats (with power) with the impending departures of Giambi/Matsui/Damon/Abreu and the downward arcs of Jeter and Posada’s careers imminent. My Drew and Giambi comps were more about the fact that big FA deals can often look like busts at first and look pretty reasonable after a few years when the player begins producing at decent levels…

            • whozat

              But isn’t the constant complaint that the Yankees are too old and non-athletic? Burrell’s another slugger with crappy D. Signing him for the next 5 years (what it’ll probably take) for big dollars will leave us with ANOTHER expensive DH 3 or 4 years down the road. And, we already have two LF/DHes on the team, both signed for next year. So…we could try to trade one of Damon or Matsui to create room for Burrell, but then we still need a RFer to replace Abreu. So, what’d we really gain by signing Burrell?

              You can argue that Tex will be overpaid, but at least he plays a position that will be vacated this offseason.

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

                … but 3 or four years down the road, it won’t matter that much if he is an unathletic LF/DH, because we won’t have either of the two that we do have (Damon and Matsui) on the team anymore. For that matter, by the time Burrell needs to be moved out of the outfield, all of our unathletic hitters with bad defense and no real position (Giambi, Matsui, Damon, Abreu, Shelly Duncan, Wilson Betemit) will all be long gone.

                The only potential Yankee who would be blocking his path to DH would be Posada, and if we don’t have Tex, Posada can move to 1B.

                And as for 2009, the lesson learned from 2008 is that we don’t need to “trade Damon or Matsui” to make room for ANYONE… they make room for people on their own through their injuries.

                • whozat

                  “For that matter, by the time Burrell needs to be moved out of the outfield”

                  But what’d you do for next year?

                • whozat

                  “And as for 2009, the lesson learned from 2008 is that we don’t need to “trade Damon or Matsui” to make room for ANYONE… they make room for people on their own through their injuries.”

                  Except for the first three months of the season, when they were two of the most productive bats in the lineup every day.

                  If any of them could play a decent RF or 1B, I’d be open to the idea. But that’s just not the case.

  • BillyBall

    Edited by Admin: Comment deleted as per point number 2 on the RAB Commenting Guidelines.

  • BillyBall

    I must also be a racist towards white people as I constantly attack Clemens. I must hate all white southerners. Why bother!
    My point to all the clear minded people on this site is that we do not need a player of that character who has placed a stain on baseball which is unrepairable. Why add him to the Yankees and give him the dignity to wear pinstripes when he has shown a lack of integrity and class towards the game of Baseball. If you hate the idea that Boston fans claim that we are the evil empire, wait until you add that guy. You are gonna have more fans, even fringe Yankee fans that will abandon ship. I will never leave my team, as I root for the team and not the player. But you have to draw a line somewhere. Is it the worst thing to not make the playoffs for one season? I would if it meant not adding that guy. The Yankee pride and integrity means more to me than one season.

  • BillyBall

    I see that my comment was deleted, so maybe I will phrase it a different way. By no means am I a racist for not wanting to add Barry Bonds. It has nothing to do with the color of his skin. I was completely offended by the comment Tommiesmithjohncarlos made and I would hope RAB deletes his comment as well. I would also hope he matures as a human being.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      BillyBall – What conclusion would you draw if you were me? You claim to not want Barry Bonds on the Yankees because he is doing one or more of the following:
      1) using or has used PED’s
      2) a self centered jerk
      3) tarnishing the history of the game.
      4) unrepentant about any of the above

      And yet, hundreds and hundreds of other players, including players currently on this team, are some or all of the above. But the focus of your ire is Barry Bonds, and not them.

      And then you describe Bonds as a “player who embarrassed the game by being so callous about his use of steroids” and “lynching on to Jesse Jackson” (which, in a VERY important aside, should be “latching” on, not “lynching” on. PLEASE don’t confuse these words which have a VERY VERY VERY different meaning, especially in the middle of a comment about race…) and say that Bonds “took the easy way out and played the race card.”

      So, in your own humble words, let me “play the race card.”

      Andy Pettitte and Jason Giambi were investigated and outed. That’s why they were so “contrite”… which they weren’t, by the way. When they were outed, Andy played the “aw-shucks, I was just trying to help my team and I only did it once” card, and Jason did played the “I feel bad that something bad has happened and I’m not going to go into any details about that but I’m going to try real hard to hit home runs for you so you forget about it” card.

      Barry Bonds, who has yet to be legally outed in a court of law (he’s only been outed in a book, remember) hasn’t played any “card” because he hasn’t commented on any wrongdoing he’s been accused of. And, he hasn’t commented on that wrongdoing because, unlike Pettitte and Giambi, he’s fighting his charges. Maybe he’s smart and maybe he’s dumb, time will tell. But, all he’s done is point out that he gets treated differently in the media, and that his blackness plays a part in that. If that is “playing the race card”, then he’d be a fool not to, because HE’S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. If you really think that Barry Bonds being a black man has absolutely nothing to do with the public vitriol against him, you’re either full of naivete or you’re a racist and think he doesn’t deserve to be free from bigotry. Are there other reasons besides race that Barry Bonds is a pariah? Absolutely. Should that preclude him from pointing out that his race plays a factor? No, why the hell not? It’s a condition that affects him. If you have cancer and you mention it to somebody, are you playing the “cancer card”? If you’re really fast and you talk about it, are you playing the “fast card”?

      That was the main comment that caused me to say what I said, Billy… I’ve never met anybody who ever accused somebody of “playing a race card” who wasn’t, in fact, a little bit racist themselves. Maybe you’re the one exception, but the facts that you really, really don’t like Bonds, seem to have a problem with Jesse Jackson, and don’t even care for ARod that much, and that your reasons for not liking them are either a) they do things that lots of other people do, or b) are nebulous, hard-to-define assertions like “he’s got bad character” or “he doesn’t have heart” or “he played a race card” doesn’t help your case much. I think you need to think a little bit deeper about things and recognize that some of your criticisms and your aversions towards certain people grow from hypocrisies and double standards that don’t have much merit.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

        And Ben, Mike, Joseph – Thanks for deleting my comment. It was a kneejerk response, and probably crossed the lines of civil discussion you’ve established, and you were right for doing what you did. I’ll try to make my points in a less flippant tone going forward.

  • Doug

    Hey whatever happened to Barry saying he’d play for the prorated minimum salary AND donate it all to charity?

    At this point, I’m tempted by the thought of the Yankees going “SCREW YOU EVERYONE, WE’RE SIGNING BARRY BONDS! HERE HE IS.” Because, well, our lineup is in dire straits right now, with no particularly attractive fill-ins on the FA market. Plus Barry Bonds, as said before, is the ultimate DH. And it’s not like the Yankees will ever be liked by most baseball fans anyway. Why even try?

    I actually think it would be kind of awesome just for the pure audacity of it.

  • BillyBall

    What conclusion would you draw if you were me!

    “You claim to not want Barry Bonds on the Yankees because he is doing one or more of the following:
    1) using or has used PED’s
    2) a self centered jerk
    3) tarnishing the history of the game.
    4) unrepentant about any of the above”

    It is all of the above!

    Next point:

    “And yet, hundreds and hundreds of other players, including players currently on this team, are some or all of the above. But the focus of your ire is Barry Bonds, and not them.”

    Well, that is just my point, your focus is to bring in Barry Bonds, this conversation was not based on the 100’s of others, it was based on your drive to push for Barroid Bonds!

    Next Point:

    “And then you describe Bonds as a “player who embarrassed the game by being so callous about his use of steroids” and “lynching on to Jesse Jackson” (which, in a VERY important aside, should be “latching” on, not “lynching” on. PLEASE don’t confuse these words which have a VERY VERY VERY different meaning, especially in the middle of a comment about race…) and say that Bonds “took the easy way out and played the race card.”

    Thank you for correcting my spelling error Mr. Helper. Your emphasis on the word VERY is an exaggeration of your ignorant belief that I am a racist by misspelling a word. Since we are now pointing out grammatical error, here is one I found in yours. Your use of the word aside, was used improperly. Please refer to the dictionary for the proper grammatical use of the word, as I am now offended by this misuse of a word. But know this, I will not accuse you of being racist because you used the word incorrectly.

    next point:

    “So, in your own humble words, let me “play the race card.”

    Andy Pettitte and Jason Giambi were investigated and outed. That’s why they were so “contrite”… which they weren’t, by the way. When they were outed, Andy played the “aw-shucks, I was just trying to help my team and I only did it once” card, and Jason did played the “I feel bad that something bad has happened and I’m not going to go into any details about that but I’m going to try real hard to hit home runs for you so you forget about it” card.”

    Let me now dissect this nonsense. I am not the one throwing Andy Petite or Jason Giambi in your face. They are Yankees right now. Barroid Bonds is not. And pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee DO NOT COMPARE the character of Andy Petite with Barroid Bonds. You are embarrassing yourself by doing so. This is a VERY VERY VERY careless comparison.

    Next Ridiculous Point:

    “Barry Bonds, who has yet to be legally outed in a court of law (he’s only been outed in a book, remember) hasn’t played any “card” because he hasn’t commented on any wrongdoing he’s been accused of. And, he hasn’t commented on that wrongdoing because, unlike Pettitte and Giambi, he’s fighting his charges. Maybe he’s smart and maybe he’s dumb, time will tell. But, all he’s done is point out that he gets treated differently in the media, and that his blackness plays a part in that. If that is “playing the race card”, then he’d be a fool not to, because HE’S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. If you really think that Barry Bonds being a black man has absolutely nothing to do with the public vitriol against him, you’re either full of naivety or you’re a racist and think he doesn’t deserve to be free from bigotry. Are there other reasons besides race that Barry Bonds is a pariah? Absolutely. Should that preclude him from pointing out that his race plays a factor? No, why the hell not? It’s a condition that affects him. If you have cancer and you mention it to somebody, are you playing the “cancer card”? If you’re really fast and you talk about it, are you playing the “fast card”?”

    I DO NOT know where to even begin regarding this nonsense. I cannot even comment on how stupid this sounds. First you say he didn’t play the race card because he has commented on any wrong doing, than you say he feels he is being treated by the media differently because of his “Blackness” (by the way, is that even a word)? Than you go on and defend him for using the race card. Please make up your mind, what is it? It seems you feel that he is being outed by the media for being black. Well if that is the case, just come out and say that. You feel Barroid Bonds is being discriminated against. My feelings is that he is an arrogant surly cheater who tarnished the game and when attacked just like Giambi and Pettite, he choose to use his race to bail him out. You see, Giambi and Pettite didn’t, they stood up, no matter how it was done, or how you feel they did so, they stood up. Clemens, who is white by the way, and Barroid who is black did not. This is why I attack both of them and as I was emphatically opposed to bringing the Rocket Roid last year to the team, I am emphatically against bringing Barroid. But you took exception to that because under your misguided thoughts, Barroid is being outed because he is Black. It sounds like you are also using that race card! How about this, instead of using any cards, we just use the human card. We are all human beings, and we all deserve to be treated the same. That is how I treated Clemens, and how I treated Bonds. If I am going to attack an Hispanic player such as A-Rod to correct his character issues, than why can I not attack a black or white player for the same matter. Maybe you should ask yourself that very same question, is it you that is treating each player differently based on the color of there skin?

  • BillyBall

    To RAB,
    Thanks for letting us air this out in a civil way, you guys are the best and this web site is excellent.