Pettitte falters as Yanks drop fourth of six


Posted by mobile phone:
The Yankees didn’t really have a chance today. Before they even had the opportunity to face Roy Halladay, they were staring up out of a 3-0 hole, and they would never recover.

It was more of the same at home for Andy Pettitte. As iYankees told us earlier today, Pettitte has struggled at home, and today was no different. To a weaker-hitting team, Pettitte allowed six earned runs on ten hits and a walk in 6.1 innings. When the Yanks needed him most, Pettitte again faltered.

With this loss and a Red Sox loss, the Yanks are still seven games out of a playoff spot with 26 games remaining. They’re not mathematically eliminated quite yet, and the Phillies overcame the same deficit in nine fewer games last year. But the Yanks aren’t playing with much urgency. As Yogi once said, it’s getting late early.

On the bright side, Al Aceves had a successful debut. He threw two hitless innings and struck out three. Why Sidney Ponson and Darrell Rasner are still in the rotation remains a mystery. Aceves at least deserves a start, and I have to believe that Ponson may have to pitch a gem tomorrow in Detroit to keep his rotation spot.

And, hey, we can’t blame this one on A-Rod. He managed a home run early off Roy Halladay. Sadly, the Yanks’ offense, other than Jason Giambi, couldn’t really get anything going at all.

Categories : Game Stories


  1. RCK says:

    Of course you can blame it on A-Rod. He didn’t get any hits with RISP! He sucks!

  2. bill says:

    The season is pretty much over. When Andy Pettitte says in the post-game “We’re hoping for a miracle” and mentions the Met collapse last year as a source of hope, you know the Yankees are done. This is very much an alien experience for most of us. Its gonna be weird having the potential of Mike Mussina’s 20 wins and young players coming up being the only reasons to watch the Yankees late in the season. Its gonna be wird for the players also. Atleast for A-Rod he doesnt have to go through another October nightmare.

    • Steve says:

      “This is very much an alien experience for most of us. ”

      I don’t know what the average age of this board is, but I’m 39 I’ve seen more than a few bad Yankee teams, and this one isn’t really all that bad. Sort of reminds me of 1979, when they got wracked with injuries and lost their leader in Thurman. Don’t underestimate Posada’s influence in that clubhouse. He was the main one with the ‘never say die’ attitude.

      In any case, they rebound quickly in 1980 and I suspect they will do so again in 2009. I don’t see any long, protracted rebuilding process going on here. Cashman has been doing that already as the team has stayed competitive. With some FA tinkering and having the young pitching coming of age over the next few years, they will be poised for another long championship run. The bullpen is already strong, the rotation will follow.

      • steve says:

        i gotta say i’m 24 and this is by far the “worst” season of yankee baseball that i can remember

        • bill says:

          When did you start watching?

        • MD says:

          well I’ve been watching since 1957……….this isn’t even in the top 10 worst years… should have seen 1967, to name one

          • bill says:

            Wow, I didnt know there was such an age diversity on this site. Very revealing. I must be the youngest. MD, 1957, one year after Larsen’s perfecto. Kind of unlucky. You missed it

            • MD says:

              missed that and Rizzuto….my 2 regrets…..saw Mays in cf for the NY Giants at the Polo Grounds, and of course saw the Mick a lot…….98 reminded me more of the late 50′s and early 60′s than any other year… always expected them to win….

              • bill says:

                Youre so lucky. I started watching last year, and before that I would only watch the Yankees in the Series, which seemed to be every year. I think I only watched them win one in 2000. Thats why I watch Yankees Classics all the time

          • Steve says:

            I was thinking of the “Stump Merrill” years myself.

            • BigBlueAL says:

              1990 worse year ever for me, Mattingly getting hurt topping it off. Although we did get to witness Kevin Maas and his miracle season that year….

              • mustang says:

                Oh, man Kevin Maas some guys here should take a look at that guy before crowning any young guys as the second coming.
                I manage to delete that season form my minded, but I still get some ugly flashbacks.
                Like right now thanks BigBlueAL.

              • mustang says:

                Andy Hawkins threw eight innings of no-hit ball on July 1, 1990 against the Chicago White Sox but still lost 4 – 0.

                1990 Yankees 67 and 95.

                I hate you, BigBlueAL.


              • mustang says:

                In Hawkins next start:
                “July 6, Hawkins took a shutout into the 12th inning, but the Yankees had 10 hits and 12 left on base, seven in scoring position, over the first 11 innings. In the 12th Hawkins let in two runs to lose 2-0.”

                Does the 7 RISP ring a bell to any other team ?

                See 2008 is not that bad.

      • bill says:

        Its good to hear that we wont suck for some years. You would know cuz you were watching when they did. Personally, I’m 15, so I might have wrongly assumed that alot of the fans here are in the 15-25 age range. Steve, in the 80′s, didnt the Yankees trade Fred McGriff for some bum and also trade Al Leiter? The Yankees have to avoid those kind of moves, although I personally would still trade Kennedy while his value is still high

        • Steve says:

          George made a lot of those moves in the 80′s for over the hill veterans who never did much for the Yanks. Doug Drabek for Rick Rhoden, Jose Rijo, Willie McGee for Bob Sykes, Al Leiter, Fred McGriff for a washed up Dale Murray, Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps. McGee for Sykes might be the worst trade the Yanks ever made. McGee went on to be an MVP and Sykes spent about a year in AA. To be fair, Rijo went for Ricky Henderson and Leiter went for Jesse Barfield, so those deals weren’t awful. But they spent the entire 80s looking for pitching, so had they just not made any of those trades they would have been MUCH better off.

          I trust Cashman not to make those kinds of deals. In case you haven’t noticed, Cash tends to get the better of most of the deals he’s made. We didn’t give up much for Randy Johnson, Bobby Abreu/Corey Lidle, Nady/Marte, A-Rod, I-Rod, etc. Cashman tends to make low risk-high reward deals. Usually salary dumps of some kind.

          • bill says:

            Yeah, but Hankenstein might get a new GM that will do those kind of moves. I only want to give up prospects if their stock drops. Tell me, did you think Paul O’neil for Roberto Kelly would be a good move, and do you think that move is similar to the Nady move?

            • Steve says:

              No, that’s what the mediots would lead you to believe, but its not supported by the facts. But hey, why the let the facts get in the way of a good story.

              First, Hank doesn’t have the power his Dad did, he can’t act unilaterally. He shares power with Hal 50-50 and Hal is much more involved in running the team and much more aligned with Cashman’s way of thinking. Hal is also roughly Brian’s age wheras Hank is older.

              Next, Hank has SAID a lot of things, but has yet to ONCE stand in Cashman’s way for something Cash wanted. Cash didn’t want to deal Hughes, and he wasn’t dealt. Cash wanted Girardi to manage. Cash has wanted to rebuild through the farm, and Hank has been on board with that. So far, Cash has not had one thing he has wanted blocked that I’m aware of.

              • Babe's Ghost says:

                I agree 100%. Hank has been all talk. Some people criticize him for that, but at the end of the day I fail to see how he’s hurt the team. And you could argue that all the ‘we gotta get Santana’ talk drove the price so high that the Bosox eventually lost interest, while we were never really interested anyway, preferring to hold on to the kids.

                Anyway, he’s never said anything nearly as destructive as his father. No “Fat p. toad” comments.

                It’s almost like he and Hal are playing good cop, bad cop with the media.

            • Steve says:

              BTW-I was referring to your Hank comment, about your question on O’Niell I didn’t love the move when it was made because O’Niell wasn’t a big time player in CIN. It seemed like a wash to me at the time. But Stick liked Paul’s swing in Yankee stadium and it turns out he was right. O’Niell went on to have the best years of his career at the stadium.

              I’ll also admit I didn’t like O’Niell and his helmet throwing act when he first came over. He looked like a spoiled brat crybaby to me. But over time, I came to love O’Niell like most Yankee fans and WISH we had a few guys like him on this team.

            • mustang says:

              “Tell me, did you think Paul O’neil for Roberto Kelly would be a good move, and do you think that move is similar to the Nady move?”

              DEAD ON!!!!
              That’s the deal I had in mind when they started talking about getting Nady. If you looked at their numbers at the same ages it’s almost scary how close they are.

          • Charlie Hayes Fan Club says:

            Given the teams he’s assembled it’s been more like low-risk/moderate rewards. Unlike some that suggest a “tweak” here and there is all they need the Yanks appear to me to be lacking in many areas. Maybe a blockbuster of some type is needed – no easy answers unfortunately for this 200+ million train wreck of a team.

      • Smitt Dog says:

        I couldnt agree more. This season is over. Let’s resign to that. But next year is very very promising.
        I’m 34 and have seen some bad Yankee teams, and this is frustrating, but not nearly as bad as others I’ve seen. It just feels that way because it’s been so long. The thing that hurts most is that they seemingly aren’t playing up to their potential, but I would submit to you all that in some cases, this is the potential of this team (with injuries and age contributing). Sure some guys arent hitting what they should, but others are giving more than we can reasonably expect from them. This is the case with every baseball season. Getting younger is never a seamless transition, and if this is the low tide for our franchise, I think that a year still above .500 is a credit to the front office.

    • mustang says:

      This is not even close to being the worst season I have seen when the A’s had their run the Yankees sucked to no end.
      It’s wasn’t a matter of beating the McGwire/Canseco A’s it was how much the Yanks were going to lose by.
      So if not this year look forward to next believe me there were times when the Yankees had no future i.e. the current NY Knicks.

  3. bill says:

    Another alien experience: people actually agreeing with me on this site

    • Jamal G. says:

      Heh, don’t take it personally. If there are people here taking their time to argue with you, it at least means you present well reasoned points to even argue with.

      And yes, you are the youngest. I thought Manimal (16) and myself (19) were the only two teenagers here, welcome to the club. :)

      • bill says:

        I was gonna try to say I was 21 but I decided against it. Now, since I’m the youngest, people will say stupid shit like “Its past your bedtime” or “Do your homework” when I say something people dont like

        • MD says:

          dont apologize for being 15….you make a lot of good points that I’ve read…..everyone disagrees with everyone at one time or another on RAB…..hey, I was 15 when Mantle had his last great year……still have his baseball card…

    • mustang says:

      Bill, don’t take this place personally most of the guys here will argue with you respectfully, which is why I like RAB so much.
      About your age the knowledge that guys like you, Jamal, etc. have at your age about baseball blows me away. I didn’t know half, as much as you guys do when I was your age.
      I don’t know about anyone else, but after a while I don’t see age I just fans argue their points which makes RAB such an enjoyable site.

  4. E-ROC says:

    The Yanks shouldn’t need anymore proof to know that Ponson and Rasner are terrible. They might as well DFA them and have Kennedy and Hughes get their innings. The Tigers are going blast Ponson out of the stadium and out of pinstripes. I guess that’s a good thing……, or maybe not.

    • bill says:

      It is very much a good thing. If he pitches well, Crashman may bring him back next year. I hope he gives up like 20 runs without getting an out so we can finally get rid of him

      • E-ROC says:

        I still want the Yanks to win though. I still think they can make the playoffs. Maybe I’m still drinking that “Kool aid” and it’s probably wishful thinking, but I think a surge is still possible much like the Rockies did last year. Does Ponson and Rasner offer a better chance to win than Hughes, Kennedy, or Aceves? Probably not. I’m asking for the services of minor leaguers instead of refried beans that are in the rotation.

        • bill says:

          Yeah, its possible, but who did the Rockies bypass last year, the Padres? That team has no heart. We have to bypass the defending world champs, I hate to admit.

  5. dkidd says:

    i know this is impossible to quantify, but i agree with steve that they really miss posada. the team has no day-to-day leader.

    as a 38 year old who remembers 1982-1993, i’m trying not to complain. and i’d rather have the wheels come off the last year of the old stadium than the first year of the new…

    • BigBlueAL says:

      Hey 1983-1988 the Yankees were very competitive and the same for 1993. Those years are very comparable to this season. 1989-1992 however I dont want to see happen again.

      • Steve says:

        1983-88 they couldn’t pitch, and they kept trading away guys who became good-great pitchers for washed up lefties. Had they simply did nothing, they would have had a good to great rotation many of those year.

        Jose Rijo, Bob Tewksbury, Doug Drabek and Al Leiter would have anchored the staff in the mid 80′s-early 90′s and we could have won championships with those guys and the murderer’s row lineups we had back then.

  6. dkidd says:

    also, i’d love MD to rank his 10 worst years since 1957

    • MD says:

      1967 may be the worst….then 66, 65, 69, 59, and of course the Stump Merrill years……in 59 they booed Mantle every time he showed his face on the field…..when he would strike out, the whole stadium gave it to him… didn’t stop until 2 years later when they decided that Maris was the bad guy and the Mick was a real Yankee…….and Mantle didn’t have the choke rep anywhere near Arod…….different times…..Arod is getting a love-fest compared to how they treated Mantle in the late 50′s.

      • Jamal G. says:

        Arod is getting a love-fest compared to how they treated Mantle in the late 50’s.

        Really? But come on, they booed A-Rod when he fielded a ball on defense, your telling me the Mick got worse than that? Then again, I’m sure the police presence wasn’t as adamant as it is today, so maybe that allowed for a bit more against the Mick than A-Rod.

        • MD says:

          Mantle got it a lot worse, believe me……as a kid, you knew when Mantle was batting by listenting (mostly radio back then) to the boos cascade over the microphones…..Mel Allen couldn’t ignore it………and Mantle got booed mostly because he couldn’t reproduce 56 and 57 ……what saved Mantle was that the press wasn’t so intrusive back then…, he would be run out of town……

          • bill says:

            Wow, I NEVER wouldve guessed that. Man, its gonna be sad to see the old ballpark go. Its probably gonna be worse for you MD. It wont be the same feeling going to the game

          • Steve says:

            I read a book on Babe Ruth last summer and he got booed unmercifully in 1922 when he was suspended by Judge Landis for barnstorming in the off season, causing him to miss part of the season. He also had an incident where he he threw dirt on an umpire and ran into the stands top confront a heckler ala Ron Artest.

            I’ve also heard from old-timers that DiMaggio was booed like crazy after he held out in contract disputes. Some things never change.

      • GoYankees says:

        Wasn’t the Mick playing with two bad knees by then? He was probably just going for the downs ever time up, trying to please the Stadium idiots.

  7. Charlie Hayes Fan Club says:

    I will admit to being 40 (so for the younger generation believe me – this is far from the worst Yankee team/season I’ve witnessed/endured). During the 1980′s the following home-grown Yankee players were all traded for bums:
    Fred McGriff
    Willie McGee
    Jose Rijo
    Doug Drabek

    Trading prospects is a difficult decision but even the biggest Brian Cashman apologists must admit there is no one in the current system that projects even close to the MLB careers of McGriff, Drabek, etc. I wish the current Yankee hierarchy the best of luck in figuring a way out of the mess.

    • bill says:

      See, I still knew the Yanks traded McGriff, and it happened before I was born. 499 career homeruns. Anyway, did he even get any at bats for the Yanks?

      • steve says:

        No. They traded him after Rookie ball, so you can’t blame the Yankees too much, but it still hurts to know that they could have had him. It’s kind of like the Expos and Mets trading Jason Bay.

    • Steve says:

      Again, Willie McGee for Bob Sykes might be the worst trade the Yankees ever made. McGee was the leadoff hitter they ended up trading (future CY Young) Jose Rijo to get and became a future MVP and all-star, and Sykes spent one year with the Yank between AA and AAA.

      The Steve “Rainbow” Trout deal was possibly just as bad, giving up Bob Tewksbury who went on to have some very good seasons in STL for a guy who barely pitched for the Yanks due to an ulnar nerve injury. That deal was a total fiasco from the minute it was made, George even tried to get it nullified by the commissioner.

    • Steve says:

      “Trading prospects is a difficult decision but even the biggest Brian Cashman apologists must admit there is no one in the current system that projects even close to the MLB careers of McGriff, Drabek, etc”

      Really? Hughes, Joba, Betances, Brackman would be as good or better pitchers than Drabek if they reach their ceiling. Montero would be as good as McGriff and playing a MUCH more valuable position at catcher. You can find 1B who can hit, catcher who can hit are worth their weight in gold.

      Don’t forget McGriff played in that launching pad in ATL, he padded his career HR total as a result.

      • Ian Kennedy = Chuck Cary says:

        Hughes, Joba, Betances, Brackman will need to spend more time on the mound and less on the DL before they even compare favorably to Ted Lilly much less Doub Drabek. The Brian Cashman Youth Movement -whether due to bad luck or overhyping from within the organization (or occasionally outside the organization) is not going well. I do hope you’re even partially correct in all these instances – especially Montero – and the Yanks see some progress with all of them in 2009.

  8. Joseph M says:

    Cashman (here I go again) should have been working the waiver wire all week long looking to move some talent. Maybe Tampa or the Twins or the Angels or a contender in the NL might have some interest in a player or two. There might have been some interest in Abreu, Damon or even Giambi or one of our middle inning guys. The Yankees might have been able to secure the services of a player to be named later or a minor league prospect instead of hanging on to talent that is just playing out the season.

    • MD says:

      if they still have Pavano after midnight, they arent trying…….

      • Jamal G. says:

        If they are not going to get anything decent in return, why deal him? I understand keeping him serves little to no purpose, but until the Yanks are eliminated, Carl Pavano is of greater benefit on the Yanks than being dealt for some organization filler.

        • Steve says:

          That is the counter argument, that he will likely bring back little and its sending up a HUGE white flag to deal him. Even with that being the case, I would trade him. Its not like the Yankee fans don’t know whats going on, make a deal for a low level kid with some upside.

          But if it was up to me, I would deal Pavano, Mussina, Giambi, Abreu and any other FA I don’t plan on bringing back. We p/u the salary and all I need in return is something better than a supplemental draft pick. Someone who’s put up nice numbers in Low-A will be fine. If not, I keep them.

          • steve says:

            I would deal Pavano, that’s it. Everyone else could have a draft pick associated with them, so hold on to them. Unless of course the return is better than a pick.

        • MD says:

          yes, I wouldn’t move him for an org guy…..but I think they should be able to get a real prospect from someone who wants a potentially decent starting pitcher for the next month or two…..remember, no real contractual obligations after this year……if they are convinced he can pitch, he’s a real commodity…….IMO Yanks are done….as I said on a previous topic, if they are keeping him for this year, they are just trying to save face……

  9. Hybrid Moments says:

    What a strange year. Before the season most of us (including me) were dying for Mussina to just disappear. Now I find myself wanting Moose to come back over Andy next year.

    I hope this group looks different next season. Hopefully they’ll let Abreu, Giambi, and Pettitte go their respective ways, bring in a real center fielder, and lure Sabathia to New York. It would be great if the Yankees had this lineup next year:

    LF Damon
    SS Jeter
    1B Teixeira
    3B Rodriguez
    DH Matsui
    RF Nady
    C Posada
    CF Cameron
    2B Cano

    Rotation: Sabathia, Wang, Mussina, Joba, Hughes/?

    • bill says:

      I thought we shouldve gotten Mike Cameron LAST offseason, to hold the fort until AJax was ready. He has some pop and plays a great CF.

  10. Rich I. says:

    I’m 19 and I’ve been watching since ’96. I vaguely remember the playoffs of ’95, but my first distinct Yankees memories are of ’96. I’ve been fortunate to have never yet seen the Yankees miss the playoffs. I’ve seen the Yankees make the playoffs twelve times, and win the AL East eleven times. I’ve seen them win the American League Pennant six times, and the world series four times. Personally, I consider myself extraordinarily lucky to have seen this team win as much as I have. I’m still not quite ready to count them out this year, but if they don’t make the playoffs, twelve playoff runs in a row is a pretty damn special streak. Here’s hoping for the next twelve.

  11. ortforshort says:

    If Pavano can still pitch, then he’s in the mix for next year. The Yanks have an option on him. I’m not for giving Pavano away when the rest of the rotation looks like crap.

  12. Jeremy says:

    Even if they miraculously made it to the post season, what then? First round exit or complete trouncing? Better to be completely out of it than watch them die on round 1 again or get completely creamed.

  13. Tom says:

    Why do I keep reading about Posada and that they need his locker room presence. How about Captain Jeter?? I think it is about time some of these players get called out. Thurman never would have taken this laying down.

    Yanks have a lot of work to do next year.
    They need a 1B, 2B and centerfielder.
    Posada is almost 40 and who knows if he is going to be able to play catcher again.
    While they will get back Wang and Joba, I don’t think you can count on Moose and Pettite they way we did this year. Also Mariano is not getting any younger. Johan sure would have looked good in pinstripes and because of that decision Cashman is gone
    And of course we have A Rod. He will always have great stats. But sometimes you have to measure a players heart and this is where he fails miserably

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