The blame game

Team USA, Strasburg dominate the Netherlands
Not enough $$$ for '09?

As the Yankees play out their last seven weeks of the season and the countdown to the destruction of Yankee Stadium continues, we’ll all start playing the blame game. First up is Pinstripe Alley, and they blame Bobby Meacham, the Yanks’ third base coach. Meacham, as we’ve seen over the last few weeks, doesn’t quite have that third base coach touch. He’s gotten a number of runners thrown out at the plate and seems to hold up guys who could easily score. He’ll probably be sent packing this fall, and that’s just one of the changes we’ll see among the men who make up Joe Girardi‘s coaching staff. Someone, after all, has to take the fall. Meacham’s just the first domino to fall.

Team USA, Strasburg dominate the Netherlands
Not enough $$$ for '09?
  • Geno

    Willie! *clap clap clap* Randolph! *clap clap clap*

  • pat

    i agree with geno. and while willie is manning 3rd base maybe he can light a fire under robbies ass a la larry bowa

    • Pete

      I don’t know if Willie’s that type of guy — Bowa or bust, I say. :)

  • cult of basebaal

    actually, i think 3rd base is the only coaching change i’d make … i haven’t had a problem with eiland’s work, considering the never-ending parade of pitchers traipsing through the rotation and bully …

    • jsbrendog

      agreed, ir eally like what eiland has been able to do other than hughes/kennedy. whatever their prob is it isnt eiland’s fault

      • B

        Hello Leo Mazzoni??

      • radnom

        Agree on eiland but I think you have to seriously evaluate Long. Not that I (or any of us) are in a position to evaluate the hitting instructor but no one can deny the underachievement by the offense this year. It is something i’m sure the yankees will look into.

        • jsbrendog

          good point. being back chambliss lol

          and mazzoni might be an interesting choice

          sidenote, seems like mel stottlmyre isnt as great as he was in ny with seattle’s staff

          • Pete

            >> sidenote, seems like mel stottlmyre isnt as great as he was in ny with seattle’s staff >>

            Funny because I remember a lot of people killing him in his last few years…

        • Chris

          Shouldn’t we blame the players for not hitting, and not the coach? They’re getting paid far more than Long, and perhaps they should be able to perform fine without a hitting coach.

          • radnom

            That is easy to say, but then why even have a hitting coach? I specifically said we arn’t able to evaluate the job Long has done from the outside, solely based off of the hitter’s performances, but you can bet the internal organization is going to look into his effect, or lack there-of, on the hitters.

            Sometimes I think the only role of a hitting coach is to take the blame and get fired when a team stops hitting :)
            Its like being a professional scapegoat.

            • Andy In Rainy Daytona Beach

              How come some think hitters should just be able to hit, but they don’t think that pitchers should just be able to pitch? Mechanics are important in both pitching AND hitting.
              I think that Long has done a poor job in his first year without Donnie Baseball, but what do I know I work in a Golf Pro Shop.

  • Manimal

    I want willie as my manager. Girardi doesn’t seem to play with attitude or urgency. He just lets the days go by. Loss after loss after loss.

    • jsbrendog

      oh you mena like willie did with the mets?

      • r.w.g.

        I don’t know what Willie was supposed to do there. Reyes had pretty much quit on him, Carlos Delgado couldn’t catch up with anything, the bullpen was terrible (and hey! it still is!), and it took a media firestorm for his “ace” to start manning it up for 7 innings.

        • jsbrendog

          so what is girardi supposed to do with all the injuries and a staff of career AAAA pitchers and major league castoffs (other than pettite and moose) with melky who cant catch up to anything and other guys who seem to have given up (cano). you only increased the validity of my point.

          what can a guy do??

          • r.w.g.

            Manimal advocated replacing Girardi. I did not.

            I’m just responding to your comments about Willie Randolph’s tenure with the Mets. I probably should have been more clear about that, but I figured if I didn’t mention anything about Girardi whatsoever that it would be obvious.

            • jsbrendog

              nah you pretty much gotta beat me over the head with it lol

    • radnom

      “Girardi doesn’t seem to play with attitude or urgency”

      He doesn’t play. This is on the player’s man. I like what Girardi has done, especially with the bullpen. Sometimes the lineups are questionable, but if they were hitting like they should we wouldn’t be analyzing it so much and maybe he feels he has to try something crazy to get this team started. Stop over reacting, Girardi is safe.

  • Cam

    Completely agree with this. I have never been more upset with a 3rd base coach’s calls than this year. Usually, you don’t even really think about it because it’s supposed to go mostly unnoticed during the game. But, and the Abreu example is the most recent one, I’m sitting here thinking ‘yes, we’ve got another run. Abreua was running on the pitch” and here he gets stopped. Then flash to Meacham and he’s just chatting away with Abreu with that stupid ass smile on his face that he flashes everytime he f’s up. Like, I know I’m not supposed to be here, but hey, I’m talking to Bobby Abreu! Good riddance.

  • r.w.g.

    Yeah, Meacham needs to go. He seems like a nice guy but after Willie and Bowa, the drop-off is painfully obvious.

    The real blame goes to the offense and the RISP numbers. So, Giambi will go. But A-Rod’s got another 9 years on his deal so we just have to hope he’ll be able to relax a little every season instead of every other one. We’ll see.

    Cross your fingers Jeets can somehow find a little more pop in his bat, that this wasn’t Johnny Damon’s last great year, and that Robinson Cano gets his act together. Pray that either a light bulb goes off in Melky’s head and he starts making solid contact or we can find a CF that can hit. Pray that our 38 year old catcher can stick behind the plate after tearing up his shoulder because sticking him at 1B just sounds worse and worse the more I think about it.

    • steve (different one)

      i don’t know much, but i do know this:

      Melky won’t be CFer on opening day 2009.

      that’s for sure.

      • jsbrendog

        too bad we didnt go after cameron this offseason and give him that mdoest 2 yr deal ( think thats what he got)

      • r.w.g.

        I’m with you on that. I don’t know who’s out there that is appealing. Maybe the team has to pull the trigger and trade for an established star.

        I know there’s Gardner and AJack, but after the Hughes and Kennedy debacle, I’d rather not assume anybody from the farm is going to be any good. And I’m not saying those two won’t be good just I don’t want the kids being relied on.

        • radnom

          Um, so who is?

          Unless its Damon, I’m afraid I am going to have to disagree. Melky will still be the guy to start next season, there is just no one out there.

          • r.w.g.

            I’m a Melky supporter, but the kid has played himself into a 4th or 5th outfielder role. I’d like to hang on to him especially with an OF next year that will probably feature 3 DHs at different points next year (Damon, Abreu, Matsui), but I don’t want to give him 400-500 ABs. He doesn’t deserve them.

            But like I said in my post above, I don’t know who the replacement could be. Maybe the team has to really open the farm system and trade for a guy who is not thought to be available.

            • radnom

              I don’t think that is a priority for next year, especially considering that CF is the ONLY position that we have any close to ready minor league talent in (in AJax). To bleed the system now when he is only 1-2 years away is silly. This lineup is constructed in a way that having Melky at the bottom should be ok. There are no free agents available this off season worth having so I would be surprised if it wasn’t one of Damon, Melky or Gardner out there. (I could see Melky as a part time player with Damon playing more center than he had this year)

              • r.w.g.

                Well you’re going to have to replace all these guys at once then when Damon and Matsui are both up.

                Then you’re relying on Melky, Gardner, and a rookie AJack, plus whoever is available in free agency to fill the OF holes. Bleed the farm system or hand Matt Holliday 150 million dollars.

                When you say AJack is 1-2 years away, what you really mean is that he’s 1-2 years away from us even having any sort of idea if he’s actually any good. I want him to be good just like anybody else, but after the disaster that was Ian Kennedy (and hey he’s still got time), let’s not assume anybody is going to step up and help.

            • sam

              What makes you think they are going to resign Abreu especially since the Nady trade.

              • r.w.g.

                He’s one of the only guys who’s been hitting and healthy all year.

                You’re probably right though. Matsui and Damon are under contract so they’ll play. If we all thought the OF defense was bad this year, I don’t think we’ve seen anything yet. Yikes.

  • Rayblay

    I KNEW when Torre stole Larry Bowa from us that we would miss him, in terms of 3B coaching, fiery personality, and helping guys like Robbie Cano stay focused. I had this awful feeling of nostalgia when he got thrown out of that game for not staying in the coaching box at the beginning of the season. And I really, really, really, really wish he was in NY and coaching 3B for us not to be on Joe Torre’s coaching staff, but to be a Yankee. :(

    • jsbrendog

      i agree with every word you said and had this exact conversation with a friend when he got tossed the beginning of the year lamenting his loss.

      bring back bowa ’09

  • Andy In Sunny Daytona Beach

    His daughter is HOT, though.

  • JeffG

    I just pray that Cashman doesn’t think IPK and Hughes are worth betting next season on too. Had he traded IPK, Melky, Tabata, plus one or two low level guys we could have had Santana and I think we’d be looking at a different scenario rith now. …no wait they wanted Wang and Hughes yet decided for the Mets package… keep telling yourself that BS – I do not buy it.

    • steve (different one)

      Had he traded IPK, Melky, Tabata, plus one or two low level guys we could have had Santana

      really? wow.

      Chin Ming Wang is now a “low level guy”?

      can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE put this memo to bed?

      i honestly think this nonsense needs to be addressed by the moderators of this site.

      how many times are people going to say that we could have had Santana without giving up Hughes or Wang when it is completely contrary to EVERYTHING we have learned about it??????

      enough already.

      • radnom

        Seriously. No matter how many times you try to correct these fools, people keep saying it. I just gave up.

        • JeffG

          First, I’ve read all the articles with different sources saying different things…I guess you can believe that we had to give up Wang to get Santana. But come on – who is the fool?
          There is no way that “saving the big three” BS didn’t fuck our season. Sticking to IPK and the farm cost us building a real rotation- own up to it.
          Or lets just say… if you were the offseason GM and you were barking the save the big three crap – own up to it. BIG MISTAKE.

  • Scott of 3 Kids Tickets

    Meacham is as bad a 3rd base coach as he was a player, but he’s not the reason we’re doing so poorly this year. It’s painfully obvious this isn’t the job for him. Have Old George send him to the minors again….lol

    Jeter sounded angry when asked if he thought his teammates beleived they were making the playoffs. We need some more of that to get this team rolling. KC is in town. We should steamroll them over.


    • steve (different one)

      Jeter should “hit” instead of “get angry”.

      that will get the team to the playoffs.

      • Chris

        I agree.

        You know what makes a team play with energy? Winning.

        You know what makes a team win? Hitting the crap out of the ball.

        And hitting is one thing the Yankees haven’t done well this year.

    • jsbrendog

      its not his fault no, but he does suck nonetheless

  • steve (different one)

    really, the third base coach?? this is stupid on so many levels.

    sure, he can be let go. that’s fine. he’s probably a “bad” 3B coach.

    but on the list of the 25 things that went wrong with the 2008 Yankees, i’m not sure he even makes the list.

    that list looks like this:
    Posada’s shoulder
    Matsui’s knee
    Jeter having a down year
    Wang’s foot
    ability to hit with RISP, entire team
    Hughes/Kennedy etc.
    Joba’s shoulder

    way way way down on the list are things like “Girardi resting Damon once or twice too many” or “Meacham being too agressive”.

    they are drops in the bucket compared to the ACTUAL PLAYERS who are underperforming every single day.

    it’s simply silly to scapegoat Bobby Meacham. i could care less if he is fired or if he comes back. he was NO WORSE than Luis Sojo was, and the Yankees managed just fine with Sojo.

    Meacham is too agressive, but you know what? sometimes that has actually PAID OFF. we just don’t remember those times.

    so if you take all the guys he had nailed at the plate and subtract the runners who scored from being too aggressive, i really doubt it’s more than a handful of runs. over the course of a season, it’s probably meaningless.

    fire Meacham, i don’t really care. but all you are doing is making fans feel better about a change that probably isn’t going to give you any noticable improvement on the field.

    the team doesn’t need coaches. it needs pitchers and hitters who are younger and healthier and better.

    and i hope that’s where the focus is this offseason. if the sign CC and Teixeira, they could have Stevie Wonder coach 3B and the team will be massively improved. if they don’t get better players, and somehow used a computer to optimize every decision the 3B coach makes and never got one wrong, they won’t be noticably better.

    meacham as a scapegoat for the 2008 season is just embarrassing.

    • KW

      “they could have Stevie Wonder coach 3B and the team will be massively improved.”

      Best line ever!

    • Zack

      At least someone said it before I did. The notion that Meacham plays any role in this season’s failure is simply laughable.

      And the notion that Larry Bowa was somehow some great influence and guiding light is also laughable. Not only are we talking about the same Larry Bowa who was run out of Philly, but its not like the Yankees won anything with him around, or go off to hot starts or anything. If Cano is that dependent on his 3b coach/life coach to be successful, well, kiss his ML career goodbye, b/c he’s not long for this team.

      And so Meacham got some runners thrown out for being aggressive, you know what? Have you looked at how this team hits with RISP? Don’t you WANT your 3B coach trying to score at every opportunity considering the chances are overwhelmingly AGAINST the team getting another hit??? There have been ZERO games this year where Meacham’s actions have determined anything. ZERO.

      And don’t forget, people HATED Willy as a 3B coach when he was here, for much the same reasons.

      Sure, the Yanks could fire Meacham after the season and hell, replace him with Casey freaking Stangel, but it won’t change ANYTHING (especially since Casey probably ain’t looking so hot these days…). As Steve points out, there are probably 20 other more important issues that could be addressed.

      Stop looking for scapegoats and point your fingers at the players and GM who are underperforming and who constructed the team. I’m a big Cashman supporter, but it would be foolish to blindly claim this team was constructed perfectly.

      • steve (different one)

        Don’t you WANT your 3B coach trying to score at every opportunity considering the chances are overwhelmingly AGAINST the team getting another hit???


        wow, this was such an obvious point that i can’t believe everyone has missed it.

        you can’t piss and moan about the team’s failure to his with RISP and then ALSO piss and moan about an aggressive 3B coach.

        it’s contradictory.

        if the team can’t hit with RISP, the 3B coach should be waving EVERYONE. all the time. at least with 2 outs.

        b/c the odds of getting ANOTHER hit are bad.

        it’s just simple logic.

    • Old Ranger

      Congratulations guys, you two have hit it! The TEAM is underachieving, most people gravitate towards blaming one or two people…not so this year. 27/09?

  • Brian

    Different issue of wild speculation here, but nomaas has a bit on the draft blog about Yonder Alonso maybe not signing with the Reds, playing independent ball in Newark (and living with A-Rod?!?!) and then signing with the Yankees next year.

    Is that even possible?

    • steve (different one)

      didn’t JD Drew basically do this?

      wow, this would be unreal.

      A-Rod should just like give him a million bucks to do that.

    • Stewman23

      THERE’S A-Rod being clutch for the Yankees!

      • jsbrendog


        • Brian

          It definitely would put to rest any notions that Derek is still A-Rod’s sleepover buddy.

          Now, if word comes out that Britney Spears and Alonso are a couple, it’s fo sho. C-Rod never could have gotten Alonso to first base with her.

    • r.w.g.

      I guess it could be possible. If he played Independent ball I guess he would be able to avoid re-entering the draft.

      • Mike N (Stamford, CT)

        Drew played for the Independent League St. Paul (MN) Saints after being selected #2 overall by the Phillies in 1997. After one year he was drafted #5 overall by the Cardinals. He had to reenter the draft and so would Alonso.

        • r.w.g.

          Thanks for clearing that up. I couldn’t remember whether JD Drew was drafted or signed.

          I know some players do get signed right out of the Indy leagues or college, so I’m assuming they would have to go un-drafted entirely or be a certain number of years removed from being drafted before they are eligible to be straight free agents? I also know there used to be some loophole with 5th year college seniors and free agency (and I know that isn’t related to this but you sound like you know what you’re talking about and i’m curious).

    • Mike A.

      No, he can’t do that, he’ll be draft eligible again next year. He should just sign, what’s he going to do, play indy ball and have a better year than he did last year?

      • r.w.g.

        It all depends on if he wants to play in Cincinnati. If he really doesn’t want to unless they are going to give him the money he wants, he should do whatever he wants.

        He’s an American citizen.

  • http://RiverAve.Blues Joseph M

    The only coach I would definitely retain is Tony Pena, there is a case that can be made for Eiland but anyone or everyone else can go on the coaching staff.

    I love Willie but let’s see who might be available in the off season (also I would consider promoting Pena to bench coach).

    • jsbrendog

      pena as bench coach i really like that idea

    • radnom

      Keep Eiland.

  • bebop

    Meacham has to go and it would be great to get Bowa because he’s a terrific 3rd base coach and he can motivate Cano. I’d like toe see them get a bench coach who is fluent in the statisics of baseball. What about Long?

    • steve (different one)

      Bowa won’t leave Torre.

      the only way he comes back is if Torre is fired. which also won’t happen, b/c then the Dodgers would have to pay him and another manager. which they won’t do.

    • Old Ranger

      As stated above; If Cano needs someone to help him get motivated (other then himself), I would not be standing in his way out the door. Cano is a major league ball player not a child, just motivate himself…and grow up. 27/09?

  • E-ROC

    Well, that didn’t take long.

  • pounder

    Girardi must go,and take his entire staff with him.He has failed to light a fire under this bunch of overpaid underacheivers.When you ban the sweets from the clubhouse and neglect to get in the face of a Cano,or a Melky, for bad,lazy, undisciplined play….AND BEHAVIOR in the dugout(chest bumps,etc, silly immature stuff like that abounds on this “team”) then he garners no respect and his status is severely diminished.THE TEAM HAS QUIT ON HIM.

    • steve (different one)

      this post is stupid.

    • jsbrendog

      it is indeed. but it would be fun to see girardi pull an old school piniella and throw a base or something

      • Old Ranger

        Amen to that!
        If he had a fit of anger, I would pay good money to see it. Sometimes he seems to reserved and under control, get angry Joe…I know you can do it! 27/09?

        • steve (different one)

          the funny thing is that he rips the guys for being “overpaid underachievers” but then blames Cano and Melky, who make very modest salaries, for being lazy.

          there are good players and shitty players up and down the salary scale:

          A-Rod – $$$$ – good season
          Jeter – $$$$ – bad season
          Moose – $$ – awesome season
          Pettitte – $$$ – OK’ish season
          Melky – $ – terrible season
          Cano – $ – terrible season
          Abreu – $$$ – decent season
          Giambi- $$$$ – good season

          there’s not really a pattern there

          • Old Ranger

            No problem with that; I have said time and again, the TEAM is underachieving. 27/09?

  • Ivan

    Is it Meacham’s fault that people can’t hit a fly ball or keep from hitting into a DP when there’s a man on 3rd with less than 2 outs? This is the reson why they’re 9 games back instead of maybe 3. If I had to put blame on someone it would be Kevin Long. I know the players swear by him but that’s just another example of players not knowing crap. I never see them making adjustments during a game to beat a pitcher the scond or third time around the order. If a guy is a sinkerball or offspeed pitcher, they just keep on doing the same crap over and over again. They just like it when they score 18 runs in a meaningless fashion

    • jsbrendog

      bring back chambliss

  • The Ghost of SAMIAM

    The yankees are awful and its basically everyones fault other than moose and joba… only people on the team that actually exceeded (or even reached) our expectations from the begining of the year…

    • radnom

      Damon has been great, can’t really blame him that shoulder injury. Giambi and Arod are hitting about where expected (even slightly exceeding expectations in Giambi’s case) but are letting us down in the RISP dept. Oh and don’t forget all the guys who came up big in the bullpen this year, recent struggles aside (that’ll happen)

  • http://deleted Randy

    why are we having this conversation? the season is not over and now we’re talking about who is to blame for this or for that. who the hell cares? that shouldn’t be the focus right now. there is a month and a half left and we still have a chance to pull this off. let’s worry about the blame game and all this other bullshit after the season.

    • radnom

      Um, it doesn’t really matter what we focus on, since it has no affect on this season or any future season. We could talk about interior decorating if we wanted and the Yankees playoff chances would not change. Plus we would all have sweet living spaces.

      • jsbrendog

        so i was thinking of going with a beige wallpaper to balance out the navy blue hue of the yankees 2009 WS championship banner

        • radnom

          beige? Ew, what is this? 2001?

      • http://deleted Randy

        if it doesn’t matter then why have any conversation? none of these conversations have an impact on anything. why waste our time then? plus, my living space is already sweet so i don’t have to worry about that.

        • radnom

          For our own amusement. That’s all.

  • Old Ranger

    The Blame Game!
    Stellar title for this posting. People wish to blame someone else for the the TEAMS underachievement…get real, we all know who to blame. This team shows as much life as a stone.
    Many say A-Rod and Bobby are not doing their jobs (along w/others), have you seen how hard those two (also, X-man) guys are playing? They are trying everything they can to take the extra base, steal bases, run hard to stay out of a DP, etc,.
    Granted, the results are not as good as one would like, but one thing they are doing…playing as hard as they can. Just pointed out 3 of the most recent guys, others have stepped up at times also.
    Let’s put the blame on the team and injuries(if one must), not on any one individual. I think there is enough blame to go around, don’t you? 27/09?

  • radnom

    I blame El Nino.

  • scott

    why would anyone think Bowa would leave Torre to come and coach under Girardi. The only way Bowa leaves is for a managerial job….no way he coaches for a guy with only 2 years managing experience. The worst move the yankees have made is giving that lazy ass Cano a fat contract before this season…i dont even think bowa would have motivated him this year. If the yankees decide to call it a season they should bench Cano some more to give him a wake up call.

  • scott

    i say hire madonna for third base coach….she is good at waving every guy in.

  • JimT

    The Yankee’s problems are hardly Meacham’s doing. The fault lies with the GM and the rest of the baseball management group that put this team together. Given the team they started the season with and the range of injuries this team has over achieved.

    The two favorite whipping boys at the moment are Melky Cabrera and Robinson Cano. It seems to me that both are suffering from unrealistic expectations. Both are good players, neither looks to be the superstar Yankee fans were hoping for. Yankee fans speak of the great talent Robinson Cano posesses. Its easy to be “intocicated” by this guy’s abilities. He makes the occasional great play in the field, has a beauitful swing and the ball jumps off his bat. The one talent they don’t take into account is the ability to focus day in and day out and to consistently play at a high level. That is a talent not unlike being able to run, throw or hit. Some guys have it, others don’t. It is one of the skills that has made Jeter such a great player. Its what makes Pedroia, Palanco and Brian Roberts better players than Cano. It may be that these guys are good solid players, contributors to a good team, just not great players. What I’m trying to say in a too long winded way is that they aren’t the biggest problem facing the Yankees and could be part of the solution.

    • EdB

      Unlike the sweet swing and great arm though, I think focus is something that can be taught if the player is willing. Its part of growing up in the majors. Cano is still young enough that I would still rather have his potential than the realities of the players you mention. Plenty of players start off inconsistent but if the talent is there (Josh Hamilton) its something that can’t be taught or replicated by a guy like Dustin Pedroia.

      • JimT

        You fall into the trap of confusing potential and performance. Cano got to the majors at an early age, that’s much to his credit. But after three years in the majors don’t you think that you have a pretty good idea of who he is as a player. He is a free swinger with excellent power for his position and an inconsistent fielder. By now the Yankees were hoping that he would be able to develop enough plate disipline to succeed Abreu at the three spot in the order. Do you want him batting third? So now the Yankees have to replace both Abreau’s poor defense and spot in the order. They may just have to bring Abreau back as a consequense.

        Also, you underestimate the skills of a player like Pedroia. The ability to focus and play hard everyday shouldn’t be dismissed. Unlike Cano he can bat at the top of your order and contribute to your offense and he is having an outstanding season defensively.

  • EdB

    It seems like the Yankees have gone out of their way to insure Girardi’s job security when filling out their staff. It’s almost as if the goal is to find as many people as they could who had no chance to replace Girardi. I don’t see Tony Pena ever coaching the team. The pitching coach and hitting coach are basically minor league instructors. The 3rd base coach is clueless. The bench coach is probably a better scout than manager. This is not to say that any or all of them have done bad jobs but is interesting they go from last years coaching structure to the current one which is so dramatically differnt. Last year’s iteration had a bunch of Yankee legends along with ex-managers with Kevin Long being the sole exception.

    • jsbrendog

      i dont even know who our bench coach is……

      • steve (different one)

        it’s the singer from Matchbox 20, Rob Thomas

    • steve (different one)

      Last year’s iteration had a bunch of Yankee legends along with ex-managers with Kevin Long being the sole exception.

      and given all the titles we won with “big names” at every coaching position, we should never have changed that.

      oh wait.

      • r.w.g.

        I think the coaching staff did a wonderful job with the sole exception of Joe Torre sitting on his lazy, green tea drinking ass and not demanding the game be halted when there were bugs crawling all over Chamberlain’s eyeballs.

        But I don’t think this coaching staff is doing anything but the best they can every night, so I don’t want to be misconstrued as wanting a change (except for Meacham).

  • Joey H

    i think this upcomind series will be good for us, the pitching matchups are way in our favor, and boston is throwing bucholz and byrd out there during the span of our series with the royals. so i think we should get some games made up. wjust gotta learn how yto get the bad on the ball

  • Bruno

    Willie 3B Coach, Leo Mazzone P Coach, Eliand BP Coach, PAUL O’NEILL Hitting Coach.

    Vernon Wells was placed on waivers. I’d claim him, contract and all! I was kidding yesterday when I said Melky for Wells, but maybe just maybe? LOL Wells for Gardner (as a PTBNL)

    • steve (different one)

      i don’t think O’Neill would want a full time job away from his family.

      he does a dozen or so games a year on YES and that’s probably enough for him.

      • Joey H

        yea i cant stand his commentary. he is fucking BORING. every game shud be singy-kay-leiter.

  • Patrick T

    Its frightening that on a website of Yankee fans I like to consider ‘more enlightened’ than the box-score-in-the-paper/whatever-kay-and-or-sterling shill type, we have people up in arms regarding the following:

    1. The teams performance with RISP, as though this is somehow related to something other than luck and sample sizes. The Twins are tearing the cover off the ball with RISP this year, maybe we should trade A-Rod for Buscher, he’s uber-clutch.

    2. The “folly” of relying on the kids. Major League teams improve by relying on the kids instead of buying veteran retreads. You didn’t want Hughes/Kennedy in the rotation this year? Who should the Yanks have signed? Silva? Lohse? Oh wait, they should have mortgaged the farm system for Santana. So he could come here and we could run him out of town like we did Vasquez? Hughes was hurt, probably longer than we knew. Let’s see how he does when he gets half a season under his belt. Kennedy is a 4th starter. The scouts knew this. He needs more seasoning. This is why the Yanks keep drafting/signing pitchers, because you need 3 prospects to fill one spot on the roster, because their performance is so variable.

    3. The coaching staff. Girardi has done better with this team than Torre would have, because save the last two weeks, the bullpen has been outstanding and Torre never would have given the Ramirez’s and Robertson’s a shot. Yes his poor attempts at being Casey Stengel by not telling the difference between Wilson Betemit and Hank Bauer have probably cost the team some runs, but this is not why the Yankees will miss the playoffs this year.

    The Yanks are going to miss the playoffs because Jeter, Cano and Melky well underhit what we can expect from them. They’ll miss them because Wang, Hughes and Joba got hurt and we still don’t have enough organizational depth in pitching. They’ll miss them because we lost Matsui and Posada and we have no organizational depth in hitting. There is no organizational depth because of all the Steinbrenner techniques some of you are advocating – dealing all our prospects for vets, signing unnecessary players to free agent deals and losing the draft picks, etc, etc. This behavior has stopped, just like it did in the early nineties when Stick helped build the last dynasty. Let Cash build the next one and accept that means maybe we miss the playoffs once or twice.

    • steve (different one)

      great post.

      one minor disagreement: it’s a fact that the team hasn’t hit with RISP.

      no one (well, not me, others probably are) is saying they lack this “skill”. or they will continue to not hit with RISP. or this guy or that guy shouldn’t be in the lineup because he “can’t” hit with RISP.

      i wouldn’t say any of those things.

      but on the list of reasons for why the team is currently where they are, failure with RISP is a legitimate item. it’s a factual account of what has happened.

      minor quibble.

      good post.

      • Chris

        But the point is that hitting with RISP is just a fluke. So you can’t blame anyone but luck.

        • r.w.g.

          Is it honestly just luck with every guy on the roster? Is it really?

          I’m not saying it’s a permanent aspect of their careers.. but it’s not just luck. It’s starts as luck and then snowballs as guys become aware of it.

          Alex Rodriguez gets completely out of sorts for stretches with this kind of thing. He goes up there trying to hit 6 run homers with one dude on third. It’s not lack of skill or luck.. it’s an aspect of the cat’s make-up and this is not at all the first time we’ve witnessed this. This is his 5th year on the team and it’s still coming up. I wish every year was an opt-out year for Alex.

          • r.w.g.

            I just want to add that I really don’t want to pound on Alex because he’s busting it really hard this year and I know he gets himself out of whack because he wants it just as bad as anybody in the league.

            I’m just saying it’s not luck with him or Giambi. Giambi’s 3 true outcome approach lends itself to this thing and Alex really does try to do too much (and I know he gets that way because the team needs him to carry them).

    • Setty

      I’m with Steve, good post. My only issue is are you listing these reasons for not making the playoffs b/c you think we’re finished or are you saying IF we miss the playoffs, then those will be ther reasons why? I just dont like throwing in the towel with 1/4 of the season to play, despite ALL of these issues that you accurately described. People seem to forget as recently as ’05, we were 4 games back of Boston on September 10th, and still made the playoffs

      • ChrisS

        Well he’s listing those because there’s 90+ comments wanting to can the entire coaching staff and break out the check-book for a bunch of expensive free agents. Not because he’s some debbie-downer trying to spoil an awesome season.

        They could still very well make the play-offs, but it’ll take some things changing for more than a week or so.

        *looks directly at Robbie Cano*

        We need a 1.000 OPS over the next two months kid.

      • Patrick T

        I wasn’t arguing that the RISP issue doesn’t exist, I was simply arguing there’s no solution to it, other than to wait for your luck to change.

        2008 Yankees: RISP .259/.347/.381 OPS+ 91, Overall .271/.343/.423 OPS+ 106
        2007 Yankees: RISP .293/.378/.451 OPS+ 112, Overall .290/.366/.463 OPS+ 118

        While the RISP issue is present, they’re hitting a little worse with RISP than overall as opposed to last year where they hit about the same, I’d say the greater issue is the fact that they’re just plain hitting much worse than they did last year, particularly for power, for all the reasons we’ve already stated.

        As far as throwing in the towel, I agree they still have a chance, but I just don’t see where the improvement is going to come from. I hope they make it, I just don’t think they will.

        • ceciguante

          i think your points about this year’s terrible RISP are wrong. just because you don’t have a convenient stat to explain WHY they are doing worse this year with RISP doesn’t mean there’s no explanation, and it certainly doesn’t mean that the fans on this board shouldn’t be incensed at the team’s failures with RISP. it also doesn’t mean that it’s just “luck” that’s to blame. that’s misplaced reliance on stats — assuming everything is random if you can’t explain it. fans SHOULD be up in arms for the awful RISP production. luck, my ass.

          as for your points about “folly” of the kids — i can’t believe you’re even making this argument. i don’t want to dredge up issues that have been discussed ad nauseum on this board, but you raised it: the santana non-deal looks about as bad now as it possibly could have. santana is producing, and the pieces we could have had him for are performing about as badly as could have been imagined. while i agree that the team needs to improve through the farm system generally, as of right now that non-deal looks like another terrible cashman decision. (btw, kennedy is not a 4 starter, right now he is about an 8 starter until further notice).

          • Patrick T

            I did provide a stat. The stat is they are hitting worse this year, period. They’re hitting worse this year because several of their better hitters have been injured for parts or all of the year. They’re also hitting worse because some of the players have gotten older and started to decline, and they’re also hitting worse because some of the younger players have regressed. Yes they have hit poorly with RISP this year, but its not because of some random unquantifiable lack of clutchness. Its because they’re hitting worse overall and so a decline from their normal level is even more noticible.

            And as far as giving up on the kids because 2008 has been a tough year – that attitude is how we ended up with the Pavano/Wright/RJ nightmares in the beginning. Or to harken to the era of your SN, Ed Whitson, Dennis Rasmussen, Steve Trout et al. If you don’t develop a decent chunk of your talent, you cannot win on a consistent basis. The 90s dynasty existed because of good talent through the system, with judicious FA signings and trades. Economically the big pay-outs to the likes of Jeter and A-Rod require balance from guys making the minimum to afford.

            Its ridiculous to judge kids off their first major league appearances. Bernie Williams was a lousy hitter for several years. Rivera was a bust as a starter. For every Joba, ten-times as many prospects, especially pitching prospects take a few times around the block to make it.

            • ceciguante

              i agree with your general point that the improvement needs to come through the farm, but that doesn’t mean a blanket rule should be in place to never trade any prospects for veterans. it’s a case-by-case basis, with a presumption in favor of staying with the kids. i’m not making a final judgment on any kids, but you can’t knock someone who is not happy with their production this year (esp when the team plan was to rely on hughes and kennedy as 4 & 5). i don’t think we disagree much here.

              but i don’t see how your stats allow you to conclude that it’s just “luck” that they’re facing such a dropoff in RISP this year compared to their overall offensive #s. frankly, you don’t know that. last year they were equally effective with RISP vs without. injurires may explain some of the dropoff from 2007 to 2008, but not why the team gets worse with RISP this year. they have the same injuries with guys on base or not. you say luck, i say failure.

    • JimT

      Will the New York fans and press be patient enough and will the Yankee’s management be persistent enough?

      The days of the 90’s and spending through FA to purchase World Series teams seem to be finished. Perhaps because of greater revenue sharing via the luxury tax teams are locking up younger players, especially pitchers, with multi year contracts. As a result fewer of them are getting to FA until they are older, often leaving thier more productive years behind.

      The best team in the American League is a good model. The Angels have an outstanding pitching staff that is young and home grown. They have complimented the team on the field with FAs but are still home grown in five of thier eight everyday positions. They are fast, good defenders, get on base and been able to add some power through trade. And even if they lose Mark Tex. during the off season, they have two good first base prospects. They may not win every year, but they are a team likely to be in the mix.

      So, as a Red Sox fan, its my hope that the Yankees go out and spend like crazy in the off season. That formula is broken.

      • steve (different one)

        So, as a Red Sox fan, its my hope that the Yankees go out and spend like crazy in the off season. That formula is broken.

        i’m confused.

        this is exactly what the Red Sox did in 2006 after they finished in 3rd.

        they went out and spent a couple hundred million bucks.

        that worked out OK for them.

        • JimT

          You are speaking about J.D. Drew and D. Matsuzaka. Drew was a very controversial signing. Yes, he has played really well this year, but up until the playoffs last year his signing was not looking quite so wonderful. Matsuzaka is a specal case. His case is different because of the posting fee and because he was an accomplished pitcher heading into what should be his prime years.

          Besides, I’m not suggesting that a team should never dip into FA. Rather it should be a means of rounding out and complimenting, not the primary means of building a team. The Red Sox despite the signing of J.D. Drew are still a relatively young team. Five of thier current everyday players are under 30 and three of thier best sarters are 28 years old or younger. Complimenting that core is a good deal different than bringing in several high priced FAs to what is already an older team.

    • Count Zero

      Well said.

  • Andy In Rainy Daytona Beach


  • dkidd

    re hitting with risp, i don’t think major league hitters suddenly turn into different players with runners on, or runners on and two outs. having watched almost every game, i think the yankees are just having one of those years (i.e. cleveland in 06). a-rod thinks too much, but his yankee september splits are not too shabby. cano has hit more line drives right at someone than i can count. jeter has always swung early in the count. and don’t underestimate how much they miss posada and matsui.

  • Ben B.

    Failing to hit with RISP is a major problem this year. It’s also something that can’t be pinned on a particular cause. Bad year.

  • jscape2000

    Just now spotted this thread, and wanted to point out that the guy who wrote this post on Pinstripe Alley is a normal commentator, not a moderator.
    To say that PA blames Meechum is a mis-/overstatement.

  • Relaunch

    This just goes to show how far Pinstripe Alley has fallen to.

  • Michael from LA

    The captain (manager) is responsible for ship (team) not the 3rd base coach. These are major league ball players who should know how to run the bases , if the Yankees are under achieving blame the ball players and the manager for not addressing the situation.