CC and the Pitch Counts of Doom

I know what's been missing: A Schilling quote
Game 145: Aceves' first start

As CC Sabathia has nearly singlehandedly pitch the Brewers into the playoff picture, we’ve seen the big lefty rack up the pitch counts. 110, 124, 130, 117. The numbers are gaudy by today’s standards, and as we Yankee fans feel as though we’re entitled to Sabathia’s services next year, many have understandably expressed some concern about the pitch counts. But worry not, says The Hardball Times’ Josh Kalk who, after a rigorous study, determines that Sabathia is a-OK, high pitch counts or not.

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I know what's been missing: A Schilling quote
Game 145: Aceves' first start
  • http://yankees.com D.B.

    i still worry, i still worry

  • Hitman

    Pitch counts that high really should have no effect especially if Sabathia is training properly in between starts. As one can tell from his physique CC must be on some sort of rigorous training program.

    • http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_01/burressDM0402_468x305.jpg Nady Nation

      Competitive Eating?

  • http://www.baseball-reference.com/k/keefeti01.shtml Tim Keefe

    Fuckin’ pansies.

    • pat

      Haha wow mr. keefe that was a pretty solid season you had in 1883. 41-29 with a 2.41 era and a .943 WHIP. All in only 619 innings.

      Oh and nice job inventing the changeup.

    • dan

      While you’re here giving your opinion, was the Civil War all it’s cracked up to be?

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

        Keefe was four when the Civil War broke out and eight when it ended. Also, he was from Massachusetts. I doubt he saw much action.

        • dan

          I also have serious doubts that the commenter above me is actually Tim Keefe.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

            dan, come on. Please don’t discourage people who have been dead for 75 years from commenting on RAB. All are welcome. All are welcome.

          • Joey

            you obviously don’t know shit then!

            • Andy in Sunny Daytona

              OUT of the game at 36? Fucking loser.

              • Joe

                Shouldn’t he have been dead by the age of 36 in the 1800’s?

                • Andy in Sunny Daytona

                  He had a “dead” arm by 36. hahahahahahaha. ooooohhhh, i am clever.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

                  Is that Smiling Tim Keefe? I thought I recognized you, you old bastard… I gave you a plate of corn muffins back in 1934 to paint my chicken coop, but you never did it.

                  PAINT MY CHICKEN COOP!

  • E-ROC

    Does Sabathia have flawless mechanics? I’ve read that somewhere, but I can’t remember.

    Girardi won’t have to abuse Sabathia to get a W given the quality of his bullpen, which is better than the Brewers bullpen. I’m not that worried.

    • dan

      There’s no definition of “flawless” in terms of mechanics, but he does have very good mechanics. He’s a lot like Randy Johnson in that when he gets it right, it’s really really good, but when he flies open, it’s really bad (I’m not saying their mechanics are similar, just how their flaws come about). He was trying to throw 100mph in the playoffs last season, rushed through his delivery and flew open, leaving the ball up and without much movement.

  • dan

    Back to the topic at hand…. his fastball’s horizontal movement has seen a slight downward trend (IOW, less movement recently). This could be indicative of fatigue, as Kalk noted in a previous article. It could just be what every pitcher goes through late in the season, as well. I don’t know the answer. Or it could be random fluctuation.

  • Ivan

    Wow Miranda got a hard RBI single off Price.

    • Andy in Sunny Daytona

      That’s impossible. Juan Miranda has never gotten a hit off a lefty, and he can’t catch a ball.

      • Andy in Sunny Daytona

        That kid is strong though, he lifted as much as that mascot.

  • Joe

    There is no one at that game. Too bad

  • http://RiverAve.Blues Joseph M

    CC is a must sign. It’s that simple. After 03 we heard the Yankees had concerns about Pettitte’s arm, the team front office (whoever that was) didn’t want Valdimer Guerrero (bad back), didn’t want Ortiz (no where to play him), didn’t want to re-sign Jeff Nelson (in my opinion cost us the 01 World Series).

    CC is a stud pitcher, a number 1 starter, the Yankees can’t afford not to take the risk. I think they need to sign A.J or Sheets in addition to CC. The Yanks need some studs to go with Wang (3rd starter) and Joba (4th starter). I would try to sign Pettitte and let Moose walk, if Hughes gets it together so much the better.
    I’d hold Kennedy at triple AAA next year hope he gets going and the deal him for a young position player.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      AJ Burnett sucks. Why is everyone oblivious to this?

      WHIP approaching 1.40
      ERA approaching 4.50
      Turning 32 in a few months, ie leaving his prime

      He only pitches well against the Yanks. If the Yanks sign him, he won’t be able to pad his stats against them. Pass, pass, emphatic pass.

      • Ivan

        I wouldn’t go as far as Burnett sucks but I agree he’s not worth giving a big contract.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          He doesn’t suck, but he’s another mediocre, middle-of-the-rotation kinda guy. A career ERA+ of 1.10 and a career WHIP of 1.29 ain’t nothing to write home about.

          • Steve H

            So what you’re saying is you wouldn’t pay him $13mil over 4 or 5years? Me neither, and I think that is where the term sucks comes in. If Burnett’s numbers came at a $5mil/yr price, he wouldn’t suck. At $13mil (he’s getting $11mil now and will only opt out for a raise, which he’ll get) he sucks.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

        Agreed. AJ Burnett has instantly-regrettable Peter Angelos personally-negotiated 5 year-$67M deal written all over him.

    • steve (different one)

      how did not having Jeff Nelson cost the Yankees the 2001 World Series?

      Mariano Rivera had the ball with 3 outs to go and a lead. i guess you are trying to argue that Nelson could have pitched the 8th and Mariano would have been fresher?

      i don’t buy it. if Mariano doesn’t throw the ball away on the bunt, they would have won.

      and the Yankees didn’t pass on Vlad because of his back. they passed on him b/c George was obsessed with Sheffield. it’s the only reason.

      • http://RiverAve.Blues Joseph M

        Mariano was overutilized that fall, he appeared three or four times during the first two round in two inning save situations. In the World Series he had already pitched 5 innings all coming in New York. He appeared tired in game 5 getting the the DBacks 1-2-3 the first inning of work but struggling in the second inning of work. The Yanks let Nelson go (and he had a great year for Seattle in 2001) because of problems with Torre but to me he was too valuable not to re-sign..

        Cashman stated on the Michael Kay show that the Yankees concern about Guerrero was the reason he was not made an offer by the Yankees. Look back over the years with George, he was never afraid to stockpile talent and let the manager figure out what to do with them.

  • Josh

    I have no doubt that with the bad karma that the Yanks have had, CC will succumb to Pavano-like injuries the minute he dons the pinstripes.

    • Steve H

      Take that back!!

  • nick

    Of Sheets, AJ, and CC, I think the yanks have to go with CC. Both Sheets and AJ have a history of fragility, and I wouldn’t want to send a long-term contract there way. I think signing sheets or AJ is inviting another four years of bruised buttocks jokes.

    They should resign Mussina, either one or two years. He’s been the best pitcher on the staff this year, and i worry with Pettite’s PED history, if that is a cause of his dropoff.

    Oh, and don’t pitch Edwar against the angels…ever! this year:

    vs. angels 1.2 IP 11 ER
    everyone else 51.1 IP 13 ER

    Notice a trend? See a problem? As much as I like Girardi, I don’t know why he keeps sending him out there against the angels

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      “As much as I like Girardi, I don’t know why he keeps sending him out there against the angels”

      Because Edwar’s got to conquer that personal demon, for the good of his career and for the good of the team.

      Having a player that you’re afraid to throw out there against a certain entire team is a bad, bad idea.

  • Ivan

    CC is the primary target but Sheets isn’t so bad as a consolation prize.

    • E-ROC

      I would like for Cash to sign projects (low risk/high reward) like Mark Mulder and Mark Prior. It probably won’t happen though. Triple A rotation of Mark Mulder, Prior, Kennedy, Chase Wright and somebody sounds pretty good. LOL!

      • Ivan

        Hey I wouldn’t mind them signing Prior. Prior can follow the steps of Chris Carpenter.

        • Steve H

          I liked the idea last year, but I think Carpenter has one thing Prior lacks. Balls. Prior’s another Pavano

          • Ivan

            That’s not a fair.

            • Steve H

              Probably not, but I highly doubt Prior would come here unless the money was outrageous. There’s been questions about his mental makeup in the past, and I don’t think he’d be up for playing in NY.

          • Jack

            I thoight we were going for strikes, not balls.

  • nick

    My problem with Sheets is that he was injured pretty much from 2005-2007. Maybe he’s all healed, and no chance of future injuries, but there is a risk.

    But then again, they’re all pitchers, so there’s always the risk.

    • Steve H

      The thing about Sheets is, his injuries have rarely been arm related. He’s had back, finger, and viral problems, but his arm has been pretty healthy. Plus he threw 200+ innings in 3 straight years at the beginning of his career, and that workload didn’t lead to arm troubles. Hopefully (if we sign him) that he’s just had some bad luck throughout his early career and can be a 180+ inning guy going forward.

  • Manimal

    UPDATE, 7:48 p.m.: Pudge Rodriguez is out with a sore neck. The result, he said, of being shoved by Torii Hunter. “No big deal,” he said. “I’m fine.” Girardi said he wanted Moeller to catch Aceves anyway. MLB is expected to hand down suspensions tomorrow.

    hahahahahahahah

  • Hitman

    I’m curious why everyone feels CC would make the yankees complete when there are so many holes on this team and uncertainties next year. Two or three years into that contract he’ll be as big a question mark as the players we currently have.

    • http://RiverAve.Blues Joseph M

      You are not wrong in what you say but the Yanks are really at a crossroads and need to go in one direction or another. Clearly their position players as a group are too old, I mean how many teams have ever won anything with this kind of age sitting at every position but 2nd base. Take a look at the ages on the 65 Yankees (the team that all grew old at once), not one infielder over 30. Compare the ages in the outfield on that team with our current starting outfield. Even the catcher on that team (Elston Howard) was younger than Posada.

      The most rational approach would be a two year retooling project but this organization probably will not go in that direction. The other way is to try to build up the pitching as much as possible and build up a rep;resenative line-up that may be enough to keep the team in the hunt. Assuming the Yankees go in that direction CC is a must.

      • Hitman

        Unfortunately that route usually leads to disaster. It’s no suprise the yankees have been so unsuccessful the last several years and if they continue on this road I wouldn’t be surprised if they turn into this years Seattle Mariners. I wouldn’t give anyone more than a 2 year contract this offseason.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      Who said CC would make the Yanks complete? Saying that we should sign him and that his signing will “fix” the yanks are two different things, and I read and hear many more people saying the former and not the latter.

      You know how you fill the many holes on the team? One at a time.