Game 161: One more tortorous Ponson start

Mets Game Thread: Do or Die
Yanks, Sox to play two tomorrow

It is raining in Boston, and the start of today’s game is yet again in doubt. When this party gets started, we’ll be greeted with one final Sidney Ponson start, and I just can’t figure out why.

On the season, Ponson is 8-5 with a 5.21 ERA. On the Yanks, he’s 4-4 with a 6.20 ERA, and against the Red Sox, he’s 0-2 and has allowed 11 earned runs in 8.2 innings. The Yanks are using Ponson because Andy Pettitte is out with a sore shoulder. But with two games left in the season, it’s really disappointing to have to sit through another Ponson start. At least we can take solace in the fact that this will be Sir Sidney’s final start for the Yankees.

The game, which counts for nothing and features a bunch of Minor Leaguers, is on FOX. I have no idea why FOX is wasting time with this game.

Gardner CF
Cano 2B
Giambi DH
A. Rodriguez 3B
Nady LF
I. Rodriguez C
Ransom SS
Miranda 1B
Cabrera RF

Ponson P

Pennant Race Notes: As the Mets and Marlins continue to battle it out, you can chat about that game here.

Mets Game Thread: Do or Die
Yanks, Sox to play two tomorrow
  • GoTerpsGo

    Excuse my French, but f*** the Mets.

    • Andy In Sunny Daytona

      I think that’s Spanish.

  • IvanS

    There has to be some kind of postseason in NY. The Yankees had their chance and blew it and the Mets are trying to do their best (although they just won) but NY needs to not get shutout.

    • Joey H.

      Uh no there doesnt. if the yankees arent in it, then there doesnt have to be one.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      There’s always the Knicks…

      • UWS

        That was mean and unnecessary.

      • giselle

        hahah…

  • Mark B

    Why don’t the Yanks pitch IPK today instead of Ponson? I would think they would want to see how he might figure into their ’09 plans, let alone as a possible trading chip.

    • Joey H.

      Um maybe because we allready know he sucks and we dont need another start to tell us that.

      • Mark B

        Don’t you think that is a little harsh for a 23 year-old pitcher was was regarded prior to this year as one of our top prospects?

        Knowing that young pitchers take time to develop, I would think pitching him in this meaningless game would make more sense.

        Ponson won’t be with the team next year. The jury is still out whether the Yanks will have Kennedy in the rotation or trade him for a bat.

        • Andy In Sunny Daytona

          Blah!! Logic!! Who needs it!

        • Joey H.

          Trade him for who? You tell me who is going to take a pitcher who cant get people out at the major league level. he has NO out pitch. it was said to have been his change up but when you throw an 88 MPH fastball its hard to have a good changeup. And sure, pitch him in a meaningless game, thats all good and well but not against the fuckin redsox who have plenty of weapons.

          • Andy In Sunny Daytona

            Joey try:
            http://yankees.lohudblogs.com/
            Have fun.

            • Joey H.

              Yeah, Sit on it and spin. Have fun.

              • Andy In Sunny Daytona

                touche.

                • Joey H.

                  Give me a reason to believe that kennedy has any potiental at the major league level. any change-up pitcher has at least a decent fastball ( 92ish). hes like 23 years old and throws 88 89. he CAN – NOT get people out.

                • UWS

                  Give me a reason to think that a 23-year old who rocketed through the system and was highly regarded as a prospect will never improved and should be declared a bust based on a handful of innings.

                • Joey H.

                  Because he doesn’t have an arsenal of pitches that can get major league hitters out. Simply said.

                • Barry

                  Kennedy’s problem isn’t that he doesn’t have pitches it’s that he nibbles at the corners, is afraid to attack the zone, and misses his spots, all rookie problems that just need to be worked on. the books not closed on kennedy.

      • Steve H

        Roy Halladay had a 10.64 ERA as a 23 year old. He already had 150+ innings in the majors. Joey, I wish you were the Jays GM at the time so Cash could have fleeced you and we would have Halladay today.

        • Joey H.

          Listen steve dont have the audacity to to throw this bullshit in my face. Major difference being, Doc has a Plus fastball, and a great variety of offspeed breaking stuff. Kennedy is built to be a fastball changeup guy with the mechanics he has. When doc throws i always say his pitches have “whiffle ball” like movement on them. kennedy has no out pitch.

          • Steve H

            What’s been Mussina’s out pitch in his 19 win season with an 87 mph fastball? How about Maddux/Glavine?

            And since your problem with Kennedy is stuff, what’s your take on Hughes?

            • Joey H.

              Mike mike mike its like the more posts you make the more bullshit you throw. Mussina didn’t need to have an “out” pitch per say. He did most of his work with a MOVING fastball and a huge over hand hook to keep batters off balance. Its been said you can be a good pitcher with 2 good pitches but it takes 3 to be dominant. and quite frankly he doesn’t even have 1 good pitch, his fastball sucks. and his change up is less effective because he has a horrible fastball. and as far as Hughes is concerned he is going to be an outstanding pitcher some day. he possesses a plus fastball with a down right filthy curve ball: his respective out pitch.

              • Joey H.

                Im sorry i dont know why i said mike lol

                • Joey H.

                  Oh yea i was thinking Mussina. my bad dude.

          • giselle

            the point steve’s trying to make is that teams need to give young pitchers time to figure out the league before they give up on them. kennedy’s had a horrible season, but you can’t write him off yet. too soon.

            • Joey H.

              And my problem is that he provided no reason to believe that Kennedy can be successful. Hughes has great pitches. Kennedy has NONE. sure he had a couple good starts last year but that was simply because they never saw the kid before, once that wears off then you are useless.

              • http://yankeesfuture.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

                alright. let’s settle this here:

                Joey H. : http://failblog.org/2008/09/24/rivet-fail/

                • Joey H.

                  OK asshole but you can’t give me an educated argument. instead you try to insult me.

              • UWS

                OK, you win. I give up: Ian Kennedy will be picking up trash on the sidewalks of New York a year from now.. Your logic is flawless and your skill as a scout and judge of talent unparalleled.

                • Joey H.

                  Yea picking up garbage sounds like a good plan B. Maybe he can use that AWESOME stretch move while hes doing his new job!

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

            Come on Joey. You’re basing your opinion on seeing Kennedy at his worst. The book on his career is just a few pages old, never mind a few chapters.

            • Joey H.

              But Mike you’ve got to agree that the guy doesn’t have an arsenal of pitches that can get MLB hitters out. Maybe that shit flies in the minors but not up here. Problems like control (what hughes had) can and will be fixed, you cant learn how to throw harder to make your change up or any offspeed pitch for that matter more effective

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

                Sure he does. Three average pitches, an above-avg changeup and above-avg command is plenty enough to be a successful pitcher. Don’t freak out just because the guy got hammered in his first year in the bigs.

                • Joey H.

                  And what are these average pitches? he would have an OUTSTANDING change up if his fastball didn’t suck. and yea whats this third pitch? and don’t tell me a curve ball because its been ages since we’ve seen it if ever.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

                  Christ, stop it already.

                • Steve H

                  Maddux’ changeup was always his best pitch, and he only cracked 90+ during a few seasons in his career. And he did it in the steroid era. You don’t have to have a great fastball to have a great changeup. That’s nonsense. It’s about changing speeds (even if both are slow) and deception. Again, look at Moose. He never threw two pitches in the same place at the same speed and has won 19 (so far) games. I’m not expecting that from Kennedy, but can he consistently win 13-17 games in the majors? I’m not betting against it.

                • Joey H.

                  Stop what? I just want to know what his third pitch is. Why… does he not have one?

                • UWS

                  WTF is your problem? You know perfectly well that Kennedy throws a fastball, a change, a slider, and a curve.

                • Joey H.

                  Difference being, he did at one point have a 90mph+ fastball during his career at one point. Plus who is to say that he will have the demeanor of a great pitcher like maddux? what if he just doesnt have the ice water in his veins to get the job done along with his lack of talent

                • Joey H.

                  No ive seen him display two pitches, a 88-89 mph fastball and a change up. and i remember that start he made against the angels where he got lit up the last time they were saying where is the curve ball over and over and over. hughes for instance is a guy who leaves an impression in your head. i get you people want to be yankee fans but part of that is accepting defeat. the guy isnt a good pitcher. young or old . he doesnt have the tools. or at least doesnt have them yet.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

                  No, he doesn’t have a third pitch. He’s a beer league softball player that throws underhand. They call his fastball a changeup just so they don’t embarass him. His curveball doesn’t curve, he just doesn’t throw hard enough for it to reach the plate, so it arcs before it gets there.

                  He was awesome last September but you can’t trust Sept. stats, they’re meaningless. We should have traded him for Johan, who just threw the game of his life. Yep, that late Sept. start for Johan was so meaningful, wish he was on the Yanks.

                • Joey H.

                  Slow down there big guy, he beat two teams in September for two if his three starts that didn’t even get 70 wins. so don’t get too nuts there.

              • Steve H

                Yet experts across baseball consider him to have that ability to get batters out. Are they all wrong, and you are right? He didn’t go from prospect to trash in 1 year because he struggled. No one ever claimed he was going to be an ace, but since the majority of baseball people still believe he can/will be a successful major league pitcher, what makes your opinion more reliable?

                • Joey H.

                  I can give a rats ass what experts say. and who are these experts anyway for arguments sake? He doesn’t have the qualities to get out major league hitters man. you can buzz through the minors all you want. nothing is like the Majors. You cant get away with any if few mistakes. they will crush the ball on you. and he needs to understand that these guys are at this level because they aren’t AAA hitters, they can crush an 88 MPH fastball and a crummy change up in coherence with that fastball.

                • Steve H

                  So the people that get paid big money for a living to assess baseball players don’t quite have what you have when it comes to determining who is good and who sucks? If that’s truly the case, make sure to send in your resume if Cash leaves.

                • Joey H.

                  Name me experts. give me links. who is to say that you aren’t making this bullshit up to strengthen your argument. cause honestly that’s what i think you are doing.

                • Steve H

                  Come on now, do you really believe that people don’t think Kennedy will be a good major league pitcher? (Jim Callis for one just said the other day he thinks he can be a #3, but I don’t really need to justify)

                  And by the way. Maddux’s first full year in the majors he was 6-14 with a 5.61 era, WITHOUT great stuff

                  Glavine 7-17 with a 4.56 era, WITHOUT great stuff. In fact Glavine did not have a season with an ERA better than league average until his 4th full season in the majors. Again, I wish the Braves had given up on him, due to his poor results and lack of a 95 mph fastball.

                • Joey H.

                  Both of which pitching in the national league. where the competition wasnt all that great. They were both pitching for last place teams at that point in their careers. the yankees cant afford to gamble on this kid and go from being the toast of the town to the laughing stock.

                • Joey H.

                  Oh and i would love to see Jim Callis’ crystal ball. i want to see the kid produce. not writers and what have you predicting what hes going to do to put yankee fans at rest.

                • Steve H

                  So now Kennedy may be successful, but we can’t risk taking the chance while we fight for the playoffs? That’s a far cry from saying he shouldn’t start a meaningless game because he’s already proven he sucks.

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

                  ESPN’s Keith Law before the season:

                  Kennedy’s stuff alone would put him in the lower reaches of this list. He is here because he has superb command of average or fringe-average stuff, so superb that he is going to succeed in the majors where many guys with superior stuff will fail. He works with a fringe-average fastball that touches 90 mph on occasion but mostly falls in the 87-88 mph range, and he commands it to all four edges of the zone. His best secondary pitch is his changeup, slightly above average with some tailing action, but it works extremely well because he keeps his arm speed consistent. His curve is solidly average as well. Kennedy repeats his delivery as well as any prospect on this list, commands all of his pitches and has a great feel for pitching. With plus stuff, he would be in the top 10 overall, but with his stuff, he will have to settle for an upside as a borderline No. 3 starter or a great No. 4 starter.

                  Baseball America before the season:

                  Strengths: Kennedy has mound presence and moxie to go with above-average major league command, and that helps all his pitches play up. His 88-92 mph fastball, his curveball and his slider all are average pitches. His plus changeup is his best offering, featuring late fade. He repeats his compact delivery.

                  Weaknesses: With only one above-average pitch, Kennedy has to hit his spots, but he usually does. At times his curve is too slow, dipping to 69-72 mph, and lacks sharpness.

                  The Future: Compared to Mike Mussina because of his similar stretch delivery, Kennedy has less pure stuff than Mussina once did. Kennedy fits a No. 3 or No. 4 starter profile and should fulfill such a role in 2008.

                  There’s some links, happy now? I can get plenty more if you want. We’re not arguing that he’s going to top-of-the-rotation guy, we’re just saying he’ll be a good big leaguer if given the chance. You’re ready to take him to the glue factory.

                • Joey H.

                  HA. Thanks for digging that up pal. Notice how you say BEFORE the 2008 season. We dont see into the future, well at least i dont maybe steve does but the fact of the matter is , untill he can go out there, untill he can beat teams that are legit and not teams with less than 70 wins like you cite in sept 2007 i will think this kid sucks. im sorry. i hope he can be great but lets not fool ourselves guys

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

                  I’m done with this. I need to go trade my brother in because he hasn’t figured out quantum physics at age 11. It’s obvious he’ll never be a rocket scientist.

                • Joey H.

                  again. all insult and no decent argument. How about lilly throwing the nono?

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

    Did the game start yet?

    • Joey H.

      Nah they are showing the nats phils game

    • UWS

      Nope. FOX has Nats-Phils on right now. No word on when the game might start, but they flashed to Fenway and the tarp was still on, so not any time soon.

      • Steve H

        Today’s game has been postponed and the Red Sox will end their regular season tomorrow with a day-night doubleheader. The games tomorrow with be played at 1:35 p.m. and 7:35 p.m.

        From the Boston Globe.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.
        • Steve H

          I hope they line up Mussina to start the easier game of the 2, depending on who is starting for the sox.

          • Joey H.

            Yea well who do you think it will be? definately not lester,beckett or obviously dice-k the second game. so hopefully a jobber so he can get his 20th =)

            • Steve H

              Too bad Pauley went last night.

              • Joey H.

                lol i was going to say can they start him on two days rest?

  • UWS

    Game postponed, D/N doubleheader tomorrow. I only have one question: why? Who cares if they don’t play the last game if it doesn’t mean anything?

    • Steve H

      $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

      • UWS

        True.

    • UWS

      Doh, too slow!