Oct
03

Payroll to hit $180 million in ’09

By

According to YanksBlog.com, Official RAB ESPN Writer Buster Olney thinks that the Yanks’ 2009 payroll and $180 million are a good fit. The Yanks, says the ESPN scribe, plan to cut about $29 million from their lofty 2008 total. With so many holes and a few appealing free agents, I’ll believe this one when I see it.

Categories : Asides
  • Slugger27

    i could see them cutting it to 180M… what do they have committed to 09? with an arb raise to wang, i think they have somethin in the 130-140 range committed. with that, they could sign CC or tex with a combination of lowe or hudson ((should they trade cano)) and still be under 180.

    i think its a reasonable and reachable goal

    • gg

      13 to matsui damon and posada each…hopefully posada will catch but who knows….close to 50 between arod and jeets….damon, matsui jeter and arod combine for what 70-80 mill? no they need a payroll over 180 to be good, they need TOP NOTCH starters, not middle of the line guys and thats going to cost money, I just hope they are there to spend it on

  • Rob

    Right and then Hank swoops in and signs Manny. See, there’s the budget without Hank and then with him. You know his agreement with his bro to STFU includes one new toy each year, right?

    And yup – I want Manny if for no other reason than how much it would piss off Simmons. But yeah – Manny hitting in tandem with A-Rod – that’s one way to help make up 200 runs in lost offense. Sure, that’s a logjam at LF/DH but it’s only for a year and Manny is still better than any of the 2010 free agents, including Damon and Matsui.

    • gg

      I hope you are right, I want manram too, and posada and cano come back big, arod and jeter do there thing, we score 1000 runs

      • http://www.workwithpete.com Pete

        I refuse to support the Yankees signing anyone nicknamed “manram”.

        We already have *enough* rumors swirling around our third baseman…

  • Yank Crank 20

    I’ll also believe it when I see it. The 2009 roster can go in so many different directions, and with no direct market set for CC or Tex yet, we really can’t predict what the payroll will be. Sure we can safely say Tex will be an 18-20 million a year guy, and Sabathia a 20-25…but that can change and isn’t set in stone.

  • pat

    Well this yrs payroll was about 210 million. Supposedly about 80 mil is comin off the books so that brings it down to about 130. For arguments sake say they sign CC and TEX for 20 each that brings it to 170. Some tinkering and minor signings could bring it up to about 180. I dont think wanger gets much of a raise bc he played so little.

    • Yank Crank 20

      Wanger will likely go through another arbitration case, and will most likely receive less money because of his injury-shortened season. Please don’t quote me on that, I believe Ben and the RAB guys understand arbitration more than I do.

      • pat

        i doubt they go through arbitration again, this time demanding LESS money than he made last year I imagine they would just re-up his current contract.

  • Rob

    P.s. There’s also absolutely no reason that HAVE to cut payroll. Do the math based on guaranteed sellouts at the new park:

    4 million in attendance x $50 (average ticket, even as it will prob be higher) = $200 million.

    And that’s without ads, YES, and concessions. The Yanks will be raking it in.

    • Yank Crank 20

      No reason to cut payroll? I can think of a reason…the money we get taxed for being over the limit gets dispersed to other teams in the league helping them raise their payroll and compete against us. Every time I see a story about the Rays signing Longoria long term or the Rox signing Tulo long term, I always wonder if it was Yankee money that helped make those deals possible. Granted they’re signed long term for average money, but before the luxury tax no small market teams were doing it.

      • Jay

        The team won’t be paying luxury tax since costs from the new stadium will be applied against their tax bill.

        • Yank Crank 20

          wow, sweet!

      • Ed

        The luxury tax money goes to an MLB growth fund and to player retirement funds. Not to other teams.

        The revenue sharing fund, in which the top revenue teams share a percentage of revenue (not profit), is what helps other teams. That fund is the main reason for the existence of the new stadium. Stadium construction costs are deductible from the amount of money owed to revenue sharing.

        Essentially, the Yankees are spending the same money as they would have before, but by building the stadium, the money directly benefits the team rather than benefiting their competition.

    • stefan

      It is a fact, though, that the Yankees WANT to cut payroll in order to not get reamed by the luxury tax. They also pay a good amount in revenue sharing, so it’s not as simple as “With the new stadium the Yanks will rake money in”.

      Also keep in mind that there are more expenses for the Yankees than just the 40-man roster. Granted that’s a good chunk of it, but it’s tough to throw numbers around when there’s so much we don’t know.

      In other words, you’re right, the Yanks don’t HAVE to cut payroll. But they’d rather be economically flexible. Why NOT have the ability to throw money around?

    • Slugger27

      cutting payroll creates more flexibility and gives u more trade partners, besides that its just a smarter way to build a team

      theyre the yankees so no they probably dont HAVE to… but that doesnt mean they shouldnt

  • Januz

    I really hope this story is true, because it makes a lot of sense. Lopping off contracts like these ones will really help: Jason Giambi dh-1b
    7 years/$120M (2002-08), plus $22M 2009 club option. Bobby Abreu of
    5 years/$64M (2003-07), plus $16M 2008 club option. Ivan Rodriguez c
    4 years/$40M (2004-07), plus 2008 club option. Carl Pavano rhp
    4 years/$39.95M (2005-08), plus $13M 2009 club option. Andy Pettitte lhp
    1 year/$16M. Mike Mussina rhp
    2 years/$23M (2007-08)
    Looking ahead to the 2010 team, these contracts will be ended. Hideki Matsui of
    4 years/$52M (2006-09) & Johnny Damon of
    4 years/$52M (2006-09). Finally after 2010 this one ends as well: Derek Jeter ss
    10 years/$189M (2001-10)
    (2008. Source: http://www.mlbcontracts.blogspot.com
    This is the reason they can afford to sign a Teixeira: You are offsetting the costs of his contract, every single season for the next three years, by getting rid of other contracts. The key is NOT spending crazy money on a Lowe or Burkett neither of whom will get this team to title #27.

    • Yank Crank 20

      That’s very true, but you also need to put into consideration the cost of the money it will take to replace those players. Somebody has to play 1b and multiple people need to pitch. You’re absolutely right when you say we lose all of that money on our payroll but a lot of it, maybe most of it, come back when you replace those players with others

    • Ed

      Jeter’s contract ending is a pointless thing to discuss. Jeter is such a huge draw that as long as he has a spot in the starting lineup, he’ll have a HUGE contract. It would take a career ending injury or a huge collapse for Jeter not to get a huge extension.

      Matsui, Damon, and Abreu will all be gone by 2010, but unless you expect an outfield of Melky, Gardner, and Austin Jackson, you can expect similar contracts to replace them.

      • gg

        is Jeter going to be able to play SS in his new contract??

    • jsbrendog

      “The key is NOT spending crazy money on a Lowe or Burkett neither of whom will get this team to title #27.”

      john burkett’s back? isn’t he 60 something :-P

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

        Jimmy Key, what’s he, like, 45?

        I could hit him…

  • Jay

    Signing Tex would be a wash relative to Giambi. If Pettite and/or Moose are gone, you have $25M to replace them if you go with vets. The money saved on Abreau, IRod and Pavano (somewhere in the $35M range) is all savings. Anyone else who is replaced could be done for cheaper (from the farm) or for a similar cost for bench vets.

  • radnom

    What is the Sox payroll? Lets aim for 1 dollar under that so their fans will finally STFU.

    Quote from NoMass:

    “Unless the Yankees have invested in Washington Mutual or AIG, there is not another team in baseball which can outspend them. You could make a case for the Red Sox in regards to spending power, but if you listen to their fans, you’d think they had the budget of the Pittsburgh Pirates…so we’ll exclude them.”

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      Dude, they’ll never STFU.

  • radnom

    can i not post anymore?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      Did you try to post a link? Sometimes it gets caught in moderation, and eventually the spam filter picks it up if you keep trying to send it.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      You can. We appear to be getting some false positives in our spam filter. I’ll look into it.

      • steve (different one)

        i just assumed i was banned

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

          As you should, you dirty Frechman.

  • Januz

    Yank Crank, there is no question you need to pay players to play, and guys like Joba and Wang will get large raises. But, you can still get people signed at reasonable contracts such as this one: Robinson Cano 2b
    4 years/$30M (2008-11), plus 2012-13 club options. And by using the farm system: Melancon, Gardner, Coke, Jackson, Romine or Montero (To eventually replace Posada), and Brackman to name a few, you are able to reduce your operating expenses tremendously. The goal is to almost run the team like a movie production. You pay your stars who people are paying to see, and (or) bringing acclaim (Call them Championships or Academy Awards (Like Arod or a Will Smith)) the top dollar. But you don’t pay the 10th best player on the team or the 10th guy in the credits millions as well.

  • Old Ranger

    One thing to keep in mind on the payroll; Long big money contracts take away from the flexibility (as stated above). Also, puts us back behind the eight-ball again, as before. Another thing, long contracts would go beyond the exemption for the stadium, therefore paying (again) for our competitors. So all in all, Lots of money they may have but, buying players and spending big money (long, big contracts) for them is not the way to go…I like Januzs’ take on it , to some extent. 27/09.

  • A.D.

    This has been floated out a bunch that about 85M is coming off the books, Yanks opening day roster was about 110, which leaves us at 125 without a signing. An additonal 28M comes off the books next year with Molina, Matsui, and Damon.

    So if they sign Tex (or CC) to 22M a year, were at 145, if they resign pettite or moose at around 10M, were at 155, nady & wang will get rasies, maybe Joba too, figure that brings us to an extra 10M (which I imagine is high), we’re at 165, and that still leaves 15M a year (to get to 180), which can sign either a D-Lowe, or a couple veteran pieces.

    Then 28M next year comes off the books, which would allow to resign Nady (or sign Bay) plus a round of raises to Hughes, Wang, Joba, and maybe IPK, and still have money to sign.

    • Old Ranger

      Not bad AD…!
      Must be a econ, major? 27/09.

      • A.D.

        actually, yes

        • Old Ranger

          Good luck on your choice! 27/09.

  • ceciguante

    i don’t understand how anyone could advocate for signing derek lowe. his numbers were bad in the AL East and unimpressive in the NL. he’s only older now, i think he’d bomb if he returned to our division. this is not the way to improve our team. PASS!

    • Slugger27

      nobody thinks hes gonna dominate… ppl advocate his signing as a response to worst case scenario ((CC signs elsewhere and moose retires))

      hes stable, and that by itself has value… its not that ppl think he will dominate, its more that ppl dont wanna see 2 rotation spots occupied by kei igawa and carl pavano

      • gg

        Lowe wont be able to be even decent in the AL if he comes back

    • steve (different one)

      i have to agree.

  • ceciguante

    hey, can we talk sabathia? what do you guys think it would take to sign him (assuming he has any desire to play here)? what would you be willing to pay?

    i’ve been discussing this with a friend, who wouldn’t go past 6 yrs / $130M. i think it might take more than that, and all factors considered, i’d be willing to go as far as 7 yrs / $160M if i were hank & hal. that’s the same guaranteed AAV as santana, for one extra year. note that CC will be one year younger than santana when starting this deal, so they’d be the same age (34) in the last year of the deal. of course, these #s depend significantly upon who else out there is bidding.

    i know long term pitching deals are risky, but i’d roll the dice here.
    the difference in the rotation next year would be tremendous. thoughts?

    • steve (different one)

      yeah, i think i would do the santana deal for sabathia if i were the yankees and feel pretty good about it.

      • gg

        i would do what you guys said and even though others teams would hate you for it, i might even go one one more year just so he can have the undisputed largest pitching contract ever, thats gotta be a perk!

    • Count Zero

      Agree – doubt 6/130 is enough. 7/160 sounds more realistic to me…and that’s a pretty tough nut to swallow.

      • ceciguante

        it’s a deal with big upside and pretty big downside too.

        no risk, no reward.

        i just hope hank, hal and cash feel the same way. oh…and CC.

        • gg

          I dont know if he would come even for all that doughja

          I do want to say this however?: Which CA team is going to offer even over 100???
          LA and LAA both have mid season acqusitions they have to try to keep, maybe not the dodgers but Manny has made them and will make them so much money its a better financial move albeit not a better baseball move to get manny, neither team will sign that guy and CC

          the norcal teams seem unlikely?? So whats going on?????

  • Januz

    I think the Yankees are EXTREMELY fortunate that they were able to get the New Stadium finished (Before the financing dried up (They were smart getting fixed rates (Unlike the Giants & Jets) and various tax breaks are ended)), throw in the fact that such a huge chunk of the payroll is coming off the books, means they should be in a far better position to ride out the current economic storm than their competitors in the American League East (All of whom have parks older than a decade).
    What will be interesting is to see how much money is put into the draft, scouting, and International signings. This will be the best investment ANY team can possibly make (Particularly in troubled economic times): For example: During the heart of the Great Depression, the Yankees paid $100,000 to the San Francisco Seals for a young outfielder who had a broken leg, based on their scouting. The name? Joe Dimaggio.

  • Januz

    Ed, I do not think it is any guarantee that Jeter will finish his career in the Bronx. Many icons of sports move on if teams believe they have an adequate replacement (Brett Favre come to mind). If a prospect like Joseph, Angelini, or Lassiter shows themself to be ready even Jeter can be replaced.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      True.

      Although, the Packers couldn’t exactly move Brett Favre to DH, now, could they?

  • Januz

    Tommiesmithjohncarlos, DH is supposed to be a position for a power or high average hitter, or to rest players. Jeter may not be an high average hitter anymore (Like an Edgar Martinez was when he is hitting .330). Right now, Jeter is at 2,535 hits. So he only needs to average a bit less than 150 hits per year for the next three seasons to hit 3,000, This is a player who knows history and tradition, and as a lot of pride. Throw in the fact that Rodriguez is only 210 home runs away from passing Bonds, so all the attenton will shift to him. For those reasons, I could see him walking away on his own terms.

  • Steve

    Some cynical types said that the Yanks viewed this as a “transition year” and didn’t go all out to win, knowing the ballpark would be filled all year for its farewell tour. Well, the same could be said for next year. The Yanks will sell 4 million seats whether they spend 200 million or half that amount. If they want to, they can slash payroll as much as they like and pocket the money.

    I’ve never subscribed to that theory, if that was true they wouldn’t have spent 45 mil on Rivera, 40 mil on Posada and 300 mil on A-Rod. If this was a transition year, it was only because they were sorting through a bunch of young players and prospects to see which ones they want long term and which ones they dont. But that happens every year. If this years team stayed healthy, it would have won around 95 games and been in the playoff hunt the entire way.

  • rsam

    try to trade arod

  • ortforshort

    Here’s the Yankees business model:
    You put a championship callibre team on the field and you will sell out all of your home and road games, your YES network will be a major moneymaker with lots of subscribers and you will sell lots of ancillary stuff. You’ll probably be pulling in close to half a billion a year. Add to that the new ballpark next year with its psa’s and that’s probably another 100 mil. All you have to do is win year in and year out. You can’t do it thru the farm system because you draft at the bottom of the heap each year and the handful of blue chippers have been long gone (see the Rays). You must buy talent to stay at the top. The kind of talent you want are blue chippers still in their twenties. These guys don’t come around very often, so when they do, you must spend whatever it takes to get them. Period. This year there are two of them: Sabbathia and Teixeira. They are must signs. I don’t like what I’ve seen with Cashman and I think that his obsession with cutting the payroll will lead to a severe Yankee decline. He wants to build the farm system and has done a commendable job considering the Yankees draft position, but one look at Baseball America’s player rankings tells you that the Yankees farm system is less than mediocre. All they had this year was #19 in AAA (Gardner), #10 in AA (AJax), #20 in A+ (McAllister), #7&8 in A (Montero and Romine) and nothing in A-. You ain’t building a dynasty with that. Also, Cashman keeps getting snookered on the internationals like Dice-K and Inoa. Therefore, with the resources at his disposal, Cashman must spend big time this winter and continue next winter when outfielders like Carl Crawford and Matt Holliday are available. If he continues to obsess with payroll limits and luxury taxes, the Yankees are doomed and it would be a crime considering the amount of money they take in – which, I might add, would start drying up once they sink into mediocrity. The key is signing them when they’re in their twenties. The Yankees had a poorly constructed old team this year and its interesting to see people thinking that it was bad luck that the Yankees had injuries this year. Old teams get hurt, that’s not luck, that’s inevitable.

  • nyyfaninlaaland

    Which clearly correlates to the pitching injuries to Wang (28), Chamberlain (22), Hughes (22), Albaladejo (25), and Bruney (26). Yeah, it’s old guys that get hurt. Pitchers that played virtually all season included Mussina (39), Pettitte (36), Mo (38), and Marte (33).

    Injuries happen young and old – there might be a correlation to age, and older players might be more prone to less significant injuries, but they aren’t completely age related. On the pitching side the distribution is far less age related, and pitching injuries were largely what killed the Yanks, not that the losses of Posada and Matsui (by the way, not the oldest players – there were 4 others older than Matsui that played all year).

    On your FA signing point I agree however.

  • nyyfaninlaaland

    On the payroll, it’s going to be difficult to keep it at $180 with significant signings. While there is $90 MM coming off, there’s $11 mil in increase committed to those retained – that adds in Nady’s ’08 salary that wasn’t in the original number. Wang isn’t going to sign for a similar number to ’08 – his arb award should be a 2-3 MM increase. Nady’s will be even larger. And Bruney, Melky (likely S2), and Betemit are also eligible, though Betemit could be NT’d or traded. Puts it at about $140 MM.

    2 SP’s and a 1b, especially if Tex and CC are included, will certainly push that near or past $180 – and another OF could also be in the offing, especially if Nady isn’t extended. I don’t see the Yanks going with Damon, Nady, Gardner, and Melky, especially with both Nady and Damon in their last contract years. Perhaps if Matsui comes out healthy enough to contribute some defensively, but they won’t know that until it’s too late, and he too will be in his last year. Guess we’ll see. Gardner could show significant improvement offensively – it’d be hard not to – but picking on his closing AB stretch as an indicator isn’t a valid argument. That one was made for picking up Washburn, and Melky hit .333 went sent to AAA.