Oct
07

The needs of the Manny outweigh the needs of the few

By

For better or worse, the Yankees are bound to kick the tires on Manuel Aristides Ramirez this off-season. After all, it’s not every day that a first-ballot Hall of Famer who just so happens to be one of the greatest hitters of his generation becomes a free agent. The Yanks know they need offense, and no one player on the market could better supply them with that than Manny.

But at the same time, the Yankees don’t quite need another long-term contract backloaded to provide some 40+ DH-type with a $20 million payout. The Yankees, in other words, will be in on Manny only if the years are right. The years might very well be wrong.

According to Tracy Ringolsby, Manny wants at least five years and $85 million. Earlier this year, as MLB Trade Rumors reminds us, Peter Gammons believed that a four-year, $100-million deal would land Manny. So it seems that Manny is looking for four or five years and between $17-$25 million a year. That’s not an unrealistic assumption for Boras.

Of course, for Manny’s suitors it is. The Dodgers seem to be pricing themselves out of the race, but that could be just be a marketing ploy. They want Manny; Manny likes L.A. Their demands just need to match, and by negotiating now through “sources” and columnists, things might be easier during face-to-face meetings next month.

The real problem with Manny’s potentially signing a long-term deal with the Dodgers though is the duration. Manny is 36 right now and funnily enough, is not getting any younger. He’s never been a great defender, and he’s only getting worse. He can still hit though and belongs on an AL team.

The Dodgers, Yankees and Mets figure to be in on the bidding. After their amazing offensive showing against the Red Sox this week, the Angels should consider Manny’s services as well. Perhaps he’d fit on the White Sox too. But at these prices and at these years, not too many teams are going to call upon Manny as appealing as his numbers are.

Categories : Hot Stove League
  • Jack

    Fun fact: The Lion’s starting right tackle last Sunday was named Manny Ramirez.

  • Michael

    It would be interesting to offer Manny a 4 year deal, front-loaded, with an opt out after the 2nd year. If he does opt out (he’s a Boras client, he’ll consider it) we’ll get his production and his issues for 2 years and he’ll be out of the Bronx before he’s 39. If he doesn’t opt out AND his production declines, we’ll have him for 2 yrs. at a lower price than the first 2 years. That would be worse case scenario.

    As for the “adding another DH type that plays poor defense”, that’s short term thinking. Giambi is off the books while Damon and Matsui will be off the books after ’09. If Manny would play in RF, his defense would be at least equal to Abreu’s.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      I don’t buy into that argument even though I put it forth. I’m all for Manny in the Bronx to be honest. The idea of him hitting in front of or behind A-Rod is great.

      • nolan

        Why wouldnt we just have Manny DH? Why even give him a glove? The less we need to depend on Manny the better! The yanks should sign him as the DH. Give him a 4 year 100 million dollar deal. Pay him 30 million for the first 2 seasons and give him and option to opt out after 2 years. If he walks then great. If he stays then we’re only paying him 15 million per season for the last 2 years of his contract. Manny is an INCREDIBLE HITTER!!! He comes through in the clutch and if we hit him 4th and Arod 3rd it would take a TON of pressure off of AROD…which he obviously has a tough time handling. I would much rather have 4 years of Manny then 8 years of Texiera.

        • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          You mean $30 million/year for the first 2 years and then $20 million/year for the remaining 2 years if he stays. Sorry, nit-picking.

        • RollingWave

          the answer range somewhere between Hideki Matsui to Jorge Posada to potentially Derek Jeter.

      • Chris C.

        “I don’t buy into that argument even though I put it forth. I’m all for Manny in the Bronx to be honest. The idea of him hitting in front of or behind A-Rod is great.”

        Sweet fancy Moses!!!!!!
        The Red Sox, perhaps the smartest organization in baseball……..miles ahead of the Yankees to be sure, just GAVE the guy away!!! Can you comprehend this? They paid the rest of his contract, his car insurance, life insurance policies, phone and electric bills, and his one-way flight to LA.
        Why? Because they couldn’t even stand looking at the guy’s mug for only 2 more measly months, even if it gave them the benefit of having the best right-handed bat since Willie Mays in the middle of their order for the playoff push.
        The Yankees have had people like this in the past (Brown, Sheffield, Wells, Mondesi), and regardless of their production, they couldn’t wait to get rid of them.

        Of course Ramirez is behaving himself right now. He’s waiting for his guarenteed rip-off of a contract, so he can go back to being his miserable selfish, petulant self.

        That’s who you want on the Yankees???????
        Try learning a lesson from the team up North. They know what the hell they’re doing.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

          Yup, they do know what the hell they were doing. They acquired him, he pounded the crap out of the ball and they won multiple world championships.

          Somehow, you left that part out.

          Sox acquiring Manny: pretty damn smart, worked out really well
          Sox dumping Manny: no way to tell yet, no way to tell yet

          • Chris C.

            “Yup, they do know what the hell they were doing. They acquired him, he pounded the crap out of the ball and they won multiple world championships.”

            Correct. He was a wise investment when he was 28.

            Sox acquiring Manny: pretty damn smart, worked out really well
            Sox dumping Manny: no way to tell yet, no way to tell yet

            What do you mean, no way to tell yet? He was tanking purposely and fabricating injuries in Boston, and they were able to parlay him into Jason Bay! No way to tell??? Uhh, yeah, I can tell pal……SMART MOVE! The alternative was to keep him, allow him to tank the rest of the year or just go through the motions, then get nothing when he walks at season’s end.
            If the Red Sox don’t win the WS, it certainly won’t be because Bay aint hitting, that’s for sure. And he’s miles better a defensive player.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

              No way to tell and no way to tell because the trade is only two months old. We’ll have to see how their offense holds up over the next few years with Bay instead of Manny. The fact that they got Bay, who’s a good player, doesn’t mean that the trade itself was good. They got Bay, which is better than nothing, yes, but they gave away the best offensive player currently playing not named Albert Pujols. That’s a huge loss to take. I’d characterize that as more of making the best of a bad sitation then as a “smart move”. And if the Sox played a hand in that becoming a bad situation, as has been argued, then no, they shouldn’t be patting themselves on the back too much.

              And yes, if the Sox don’t win the World Series, it most definitely can be because Bay wasn’t hitting. If Bay puts up a .250/.360/.430 in the ALCS in a spot where Manny generally puts up a .320/.430/.650, that can mean the difference between beating or losing to the Rays…

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

                “They got Bay, which is better than nothing, yes, but they gave away the best offensive player currently playing not named Albert Pujols.”

                1) No love for A-Rod?

                2) They didn’t get Bay for Manny. They got Bay for Manny, Hansen, Moss, and $7 million.

                • Jay CT

                  They were never going to resign Manny though Tommie. and Bay is no Manny at all, but they do control Bay for 7.5 next season also. Its not too late to tell about the move for one reason- Manny was going to give them zero the rest of the wya, so anything from Bay is a bonus

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

                  Yes, love for ARod.

                  Best offensive players in baseball, 2000-present, according to tommiesmithjohncarlos:

                  1) Albert Pujols
                  2) Manny Ramirez
                  3) Alex Rodriguez

                  45-ish) Jason Bay

                  2,784) Alex Cora (who wins ballgames, I’m told)

            • A.D.

              There’s no way to prove or know he was taking purposely…because that’s what the Boston media told us? Which is owned by Red Sox…

              But I do agree Yanks sign manny its a desperation move because they signed no one else

            • Ed

              Perhaps you missed it, but the tanking purposely line is crap. Manny only missed a few games in July (played in the 4th most on the team), and put up a stat line of .347/.473/.587 in July.

              And considering the whole stink is because he wanted to get a new, expensive, long term contract this offseason, turning in a lousy final two months would’ve been a terrible idea.

              I have no doubt that he pulled a lot of crap to get what he wanted, but in the end, the version of the story coming from the Red Sox doesn’t make sense as it would just hurt everyone involved.

        • deadrody

          Red Sox the smartest organization in baseball ?

          Right. Good one. If they were “smart” for getting rid of Manny, how many times “dumber” were they for not being able to handle Manny’s situation, AT ALL, without giving him away ?

          Yeah, they’re all brain surgeons in Boston.

      • Barry

        damon, jeter, nady, a-rod, manny? nady would benefit from A rod protecting him and A-rod from manny.

  • radnom

    Eh. Its going to take at LEAST 4 years.

    As I said before, all the melodrama of getting traded to LA was to get out of the remaining 2 year options of his Boston contract. He certainly didn’t go through that to turn around at sign a 3 year deal (probably not a 4 year one either).

    I think you’ve got to pass here, besides what is the outfield going to look like next year….Manny/Damon/Nady?? Yikes. Hopefully he stays in the NL.

    • Reggie C.

      Imagine if the RS beat the Dodgers in the WS. Manny might just be crazy enough to come play for the Yanks on a 3 year / 70 million deal. Especially if he hits like he usually does , I simply don’t see the Yanks not making a serious offer.

      Cashman won’t give Manny a 4th year, and somebody might, but Cashman could put forth the highest annual salary. I think we gotta see how the playoffs end. A red sox win could just lead us in this direction.

    • Casey

      I disagree about the years. The issue with his current contract wasn’t the amount of years for which Boston held options, it was the fact that the only way Boras gets paid is with an entirely new contract, whether that contract is for 1 year or 30 years.

      • Count Zero

        Valid point.

        I honestly believe 3x$25MM might do it. That’s a 25% pay raise for Manny and 15% of $75MM for Scottie. And I think I would do 3x$25MM for a guy who shows no signs of decline at the plate.

        I also like the front-loaded, player option after two idea posted above.

    • Reggie C.

      radnom.
      Before making definitive statements on the length of the contract, lets see which suitors are actually out there. Not too many teams can afford Manny to begin with, so I expect the years that’ll be offered to be in the 3 or possibly 4 range. Forty year olds make ideal DH types, so i doubt any NL team would go to a 4th year. Its about the money or more accurately the annual salary. Plain and simple.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

        Slight correction: It’s about the average annual salary. But otherwise, you’re right on the money.

      • radnom

        Alright think what you want. I’m just sayin’, there’s no way you pull an unprecedented move that results in you basically forcing a team to trade you just so you can get 1 extra year on your deal.

        Sure, I would love him to come here for 3 years, but you are being foolishly optimistic if you think thats gunna happen.

  • Jeremy

    This is a player who phones it in when he is unhappy.

    This is a player who is unhappy when he lacks privacy and has to put up with a lot of media and fan scrutiny.

    This is a player who would be a terrible fit for the Yankees.

    • Marsha

      I agree. Manny being Manny as a Yankee does not sound very appealing.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      This is a player who phones it in when he is unhappy.

      And while “phoning it in”, he’s still better than 98% of all other baseball players, ever. Including all of the players currently on this team.

      This is a player who is unhappy when he lacks privacy and has to put up with a lot of media and fan scrutiny.

      I’m sure that Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner are warm and genial to the press constantly. Unfortunately, neither of them can OPS one-thousand.

      This is a player who would be a terrible fit for the Yankees.

      Buster Olney would disagree with you, I’m sure of it.

      I agree. Manny being Manny as a Yankee does not sound very appealing.

      Winning baseball games must not sound appealing to you either.

      • Chris C.

        “And while “phoning it in”, he’s still better than 98% of all other baseball players, ever. Including all of the players currently on this team.”

        He also weakens the defense, because now guys like Matsui, Damon, and Posada need to find a spot on the field. And he’s already in his late 30′s, and you want to give him a 4-5 year contract? How stupid can you be? Have you lived under a rock the past 7 years in Yankeeland? Will people like you never learn?

        “I’m sure that Melky Cabrera and Brett Gardner are warm and genial to the press constantly. Unfortunately, neither of them can OPS one-thousand.”

        Who cares about the press? Manny Ramirez angered his TEAMMATES in the Boston clubhouse. THAT, you should have a problem with. Look at the Red Sox…..they’re moving forward. And you’re proposing that the Yankees move backwards. Brilliant.

        “Buster Olney would disagree with you, I’m sure of it.”

        Buster Olney, to my knowledge, has never GM’ed a baseball team to a World Series. Nor does Buster Olney have to stand behind the opinions he shares regarding other peoples money.

        “Winning baseball games must not sound appealing to you either.”

        Right. Because the Yankees have a history of winning championships when they bring mercenaries in. Remember how many championships they won when they brought Gary Sheffield in? Those were strange years. The opposing teams didn’t even show up, they were so intimidated.
        Sorry, but only thick-headed fans would advocate bringing in old players who are proven distractions.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          Seriously, Chris. If you don’t can the disrespectful, contemptuous language, you won’t be allowed to comment here. This is the second time I’ve warned you. Stop mocking people; stop calling them thick-headed. This is a forum where we’re all entitled to our opinions, and everyone generally doles out the respect we all deserve. If can’t play by our fairly lenient rules, then we’ll ask you to stop.

          • Chris C.

            Fair enough.
            Just hard to believe anyone would want Manny Ramirez on their baseball team………except for the Dodgers, who are reeping the benefits of a greedy ballplayer acting like a great clubhouse guy so he can rob his next boss blind.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

              He also weakens the defense, because now guys like Matsui, Damon, and Posada need to find a spot on the field. And he’s already in his late 30’s, and you want to give him a 4-5 year contract?

              Matsui and Damon are not long for the Yankees. They can easily be traded/benched/ignored for a year. Posada is the catcher for a year, and then even if he moves to DH and not 1B after that (assuming we have acquired another 1B somewhere, Texy or otherwise) and we’re forced to play Manny in left, I’m fine with that, his bat more than makes up for it. Certainly never stopped the Indians or Red Sox from winning 95 games with clockwork-like regularity.
              Also, I never said I wanted to give him 4 or 5 years. Three is more like it. Read the rest of my posts on this page.

              How stupid can you be? Have you lived under a rock the past 7 years in Yankeeland? Will people like you never learn?

              The past 7 years in Yankeeland have taught us, primarily, that we shouldn’t draft low-ceiling guys, and that we shouldn’t trade for or sign quasi-stars who have never produced on the big stage before in the AL East and who don’t respond well to pressure. Acquiring Manny has nothing to do with either of those.
              But you were probably instead driving at the hackneyed “we’ve got too many overpriced aging veteran no-defense players” shtick, which is noble but also not appropriate here. Yes, Manny is an overpriced aging veteran no-defense player. However, unlike all the other overpriced aging veteran no-defense players we’ve had over the past 7 years, he’s really, really, really good at hitting a baseball, and he can even do it in the crucible of the postseason. And his overpriced aging veteran no-defense-iness doesn’t scare me too much when a lot of the other overpriced aging veteran no-defense players we have are all about to retire or depart the team in the next 13 months. Apparently, I’m too stupid to look at context and juxtaposition when inappropriately shoehorning the “lessons” of the past into the actual realities of the present. I apologize.

              Who cares about the press? Manny Ramirez angered his TEAMMATES in the Boston clubhouse. THAT, you should have a problem with.

              And, even with all the hatred that Kevin Millar, David Ortiz, Josh Beckett, and Mike Timlin have for Manny Ramirez, they sure love polishing those shiny rings, don’t they?

              Look at the Red Sox…..they’re moving forward. And you’re proposing that the Yankees move backwards. Brilliant.

              Again, we don’t know that they’re moving forward. Won’t know that until the next few seasons play out. They could have very well cost themselves some World Series victories by swapping Manny for Bay.

              Buster Olney, to my knowledge, has never GM’ed a baseball team to a World Series. Nor does Buster Olney have to stand behind the opinions he shares regarding other peoples money.

              You obviously didn’t get the reference. Whatever. Ask Mike, I don’t feel like enlightening you anymore.

              Right. Because the Yankees have a history of winning championships when they bring mercenaries in. Remember how many championships they won when they brought Gary Sheffield in? Those were strange years. The opposing teams didn’t even show up, they were so intimidated. Sorry, but only thick-headed fans would advocate bringing in old players who are proven distractions.

              Babe Ruth, Roger Maris, Catfish Hunter, Reggie Jackson, Sparky Lyle, David Cone, David Wells, Roger Clemens, Chuck Knoblauch, Darryl Strawberry, Chili Davis, and dozens of other Yankee “mercenaries” say hello. The fact that Gary Sheffield couldn’t win a World Series on a team relying on Jeff Weaver and Jaret Wright has what do do with Manny Ramirez, exactly?

              Seriously, WHAT THE FUCK are you talking about? What’s the difference between a mercenary and any other free agent acquisition? What, Manny’s home runs count less because he’s not a great teammate? Manny’s .450 OBP is going to be a bigger distraction to the clubhouse than not having anybody who can get a two-out hit would be?

              We had a serious offensive malaise this year, where basically none of our hitters produced to their potential, and there’s a playoff-tested wonder-bat who’s been OPS’ing north of 1.000 for a decade and shows no signs of slowing down sitting there on the market and you don’t even want to entertain the vaguest notion of bringing him in even though he’d fill one of our greatest needs and cost us nothing but money, and I’M the thickheaded one?

              We scored 200 runs less than the year before and one of the 15 best offensive players in baseball history who’s hitting like he’s in his prime is available and you don’t want him because he’s kind of a weird jerk, and I’m the thickheaded one?

              Seriously, dude, take a step back and reconsider this untenable position you’re taking.

              • Chris C.

                My “untenable” position is this………..I don’t want Manny Ramirez on the team. There has to be another way to build a winner other than bringing over a 36 year old malcontent who happens to be the #1 reason our rival won their first WS in 86 years. And if the Yankees can’t find that other way, then perhaps they shouldn’t have brought back Brian Cashman.

                It’s a move that smacks of desperation, and puts the Yankees in a position of becoming the laughingstocks of the sport if they don’t win a championship.

                I mean honestly, don’t you feel even the slightest of differences between rooting for the YAnkees of the late 90′s, and rooting for a team who’s payroll is about double that of the next team?

                • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

                  “and rooting for a team who’s payroll is about double that of the next team?”

                  I understand your overall point, but this is pure hyperbole.

                  The Yankees are facing a tough position right now. There’s a pressure to win now, which prompts free agent acquisitions. They’re also trying to fix a major flaw of the past few year, the farm system, which cannot be done overnight. It takes years of careful drafting and development.

                  They’re doing the latter so they don’t have to do the former as much. However, it’s not like the Yankees are ever going into rebuilding mode. They’re not punting on 2009. As such, they have to address the deficiencies they had in 2008 and try to correct them. Since the offense dropped off from 2007, it stands to reason that they’d like to add a bat. If the best fit available is Manny Ramirez, well, maybe there is no other way.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

                  My “untenable” position is this………..I don’t want Manny Ramirez on the team. There has to be another way to build a winner other than bringing over a 36 year old malcontent who happens to be the #1 reason our rival won their first WS in 86 years. And if the Yankees can’t find that other way, then perhaps they shouldn’t have brought back Brian Cashman.

                  Of course there are other ways. This just happens to be one of the easiest and smartest ways to do it. It costs us nothing more than a lot of money and a draft pick. And look, you’re all but admitting it yourself, there’s very few logical reasons to be against signing Manny Ramirez (there are some, sure, but they’re not super compelling), the only real reason to be against it is an emotional one, namely, that you don’t want to see an ex-Red Sox player who’s killed us over the years on the team. That’s your right, I guess… I just value my team winning more than I value buying this outmoded narrative being foisted on us that we’ve just absolutely got to hate everybody who ever put on a uniform of one of our rivals. You do that, and you shut the door against oodles of potentially great players who can help your ballclub win ballgames. That’s way more important to me.
                  As for Brian Cashman, his goal isn’t to win World Championships without using any former Red Sox players, it’s just to win World Championships. If he acquires Manny Ramirez, he’d be doing his job and doing it smartly, no matter what “way” you “want” him to assemble the team.

                  It’s a move that smacks of desperation, and puts the Yankees in a position of becoming the laughingstocks of the sport if they don’t win a championship.

                  Jeez, you sound like you write for the Post. All of these are tired, hackneyed cliched narratives of hypercritical Yankee haters. It smacks of desperation because you want it to smack of desperation, because you claim that every player acquisition of a player you don’t like for whatever flimsy reason is a “desperate” one. The Yankees will be the laughingstocks of the sport because people want them to be laughingstocks, because people won’t allow for anything less than unattainable perfection from Cashman, friends and foes alike. It’s all bullshit, the real world isn’t like that.

                  I mean honestly, don’t you feel even the slightest of differences between rooting for the YAnkees of the late 90’s, and rooting for a team who’s payroll is about double that of the next team?

                  Not at all. Because I’m not going to let some schmuck in Pittsburgh or Colorado tell me that I should enjoy my title any less simply because the team payroll was higher. And, FWIW, the Yankees team payroll during the title years was in the top 3 every year. It’s not like they were playing for charity back then. But, that’s a fact not often brought up, because years, later, nobody remembers team salaries (like, did you know the 1998 Baltimore Orioles lead the league in team payroll, with 72M?). They only remember that the Orioles didn’t win the World Series, the Yankees did.

                  Stop letting the petty gripes of small-minded pseudo-journalists and jealous small-marketers steal your joy. I’m proud of my team, even with all the Manny-Ramirez-like players we’ve had in our past (and we’ve had our share.) Adding him doesn’t undermine or change anything about Yankee “greatness”, past, present, or future. It could, however, help us win some more rings.

                • Chris C.

                  The Yankees are facing a tough position right now. There’s a pressure to win now, which prompts free agent acquisitions. They’re also trying to fix a major flaw of the past few year, the farm system, which cannot be done overnight. It takes years of careful drafting and development.

                  You’ve just hit on the top problem of the organization………PATIENCE. And that’s why the Red Sox are now close to winning their 3rd WS in 5 years, with a young and talented team heading into the future.
                  They lied in the weeds for years, holding onto their prospects, ignoring the temptations of big money trade bait. And now it’s all paying off for them.

                  Meanwhile, the YAnkees thought they were working circles around the Sox by bringing in players like Sheffield, Randy Johnson, Vazquez, Weaver, Wright, etc, etc.

                  The Red Sox realized long ago that FA signings cost a team top draft picks. The Yankees have not realized this yet. Nor have the fans……..they are still saying, “All Manny costs us is money!” Wrong!

                  “They’re doing the latter so they don’t have to do the former as much. However, it’s not like the Yankees are ever going into rebuilding mode.”

                  Well then, they can forget about any future dynasties. I mean heck, there’s a reason that dynasty was built while Steinbrenner was suspended.

                • Chris C.

                  “Stop letting the petty gripes of small-minded pseudo-journalists and jealous small-marketers steal your joy. I’m proud of my team, even with all the Manny-Ramirez-like players we’ve had in our past (and we’ve had our share.) Adding him doesn’t undermine or change anything about Yankee “greatness”, past, present, or future. It could, however, help us win some more rings”

                  Look, I appreciate your post, but I don’t want the guy on the Yankees. I don’t like him at all, and would rather not be in a position to have to root for him. What he did in Boston (faking injuries, refusing to enter a ballgame, striking out purposely against Rivera) was an absolute disgrace to his team, and to the entire game. I didn’t want Sheffield either for the same reasons.
                  And I can almost guarentee you that Brian Cashman will have little to no interest in him as well, so none of this will matter anyway.

                  It’s really a good thing they brought Cashman back, because other than him and perhaps Hal Steinbrenner, the Yankees seem to have no interest in building a proper future for the organization outside of just snatching up any high-priced FA.

                  The people on this board seem to be following the building plan of a certain owner of the Yankees who used to clean horse shit in Tampa.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

                  But here’s the problem, Chris: you’re looking at this too reflexively. Signing Manny isn’t the act of a desperate franchise, clinging to the misguided ways of the past unless you choose to paint it that way to fit the agenda you have. Manny’s one player; he’s not ten. Signing one player here or there doesn’t undermine or change our basic philosophy of getting younger and better in pitching or defensively, it’s just a strategic strike to add a premier bat that allows us to continue developing our players.

                  And please, stop with the nonsense that the Red Sox don’t sign free agents. They sign a TON of free agents. Practically all the plaudits you lavish on the Sox and all the criticisms you have for the Yankees are MSM-spun bullshit. Yes, the dynasty was built on a core of young talent brought up while George was suspended. What turned them from a good young team to a dominant, title-winning team was adding in quality veteran stars like Cone, Wells, Clemens, Knoblauch, El Duque, Justice, etc. etc.

                  Look, if the roles were reversed, and Manny had just whined his way off the Yankees and Theo Epstein was faced with our roster situation, you’d better believe he’d be calling Manny’s agent.

                  I get it, you don’t like Manny. All I’m saying is, non of your reasons for not wanting him on the team are LOGICAL, they’re just EMOTIONAL. I tend to value logic and sound baseball decisions over emotional attachments or aversions, you apparently don’t.

        • deadrody

          Sorry, Chris, but you have to suspend some normalcy for a guy the caliber of Manny Ramirez. We all hated it when he was with the Sox, but the plain truth of the matter is that there are zero hitters in the game that are consistently better than Manny. None.

          Frankly, he is a once in a lifeime talent whose production is better than 50-50 IMO to be well above average when he is past 40.

          I don’t have any doubt that he is very comparable to the talents of guys like Winfield, Frank Thomas, Edgar Martinez, and even Eddie Murray, guys that were still putting up numbers at 40. No doubt whatsoever.

    • Chris C.

      Yankee fans no longer have any pride or standards.

      There was a time when players needed to earn the right to wear the pinstripes. Those days are long gone.

      Mainly, this is because the Yankees have waaay too many fans who entered the picture in 1996, and have no true sense of the team’s history, where they were, what they accomplished, and where they need to be headed.

      You can blame the organization for this……….I think it all started when they signed Daryll Strawberry. That pretty much spelled the end of looking for character ballplayers, and the beginning of any slimeball becoming a Yankee.

      • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

        Screw that. If Julio Lugo produced to the levels of Derek Jeter, I’d want his wife-beating ass on the Yanks any day.

        Jose Reyes started cheating on his wife eight weeks into their marriage. Knowing that, I’m sure every Yankee fan would still line up to have him be the successor to Jeter at Short Stop.

        • Bo

          Sweet philosophy. May as well bring in wife beaters, murderers, rapists, drug dealers. Hey if they can play….

          • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

            Yes, because murder and rape is comparable to misdemeanor assault (what Lugo was charged with).

            • steve (different one)

              You can blame the organization for this……….I think it all started when they signed Daryll Strawberry. That pretty much spelled the end of looking for character ballplayers, and the beginning of any slimeball becoming a Yankee.

              yes, it started in 1996. Mickey Mantle had no character flaws. nor did Babe Ruth.

              or Graig Nettles, who stuffed his bat with superballs.

              or those 2 guys in the 70′s who swapped wives.

              or Billy Martin.

              i’m positive it all started with Darryl Strawberry. and Dwight Gooden. and Tim Raines.

              • Chris C.

                You know what I mean, pal.
                There were clubhouse cores back then. Now, there’s just a bunch of individual players who are one-man corporations. The Red Sox have the money to operate like that too, but they don’t. Because it aint good for the ballclub.

                I sure hope it doesn’t take the Yankees a few more empty Octobers before they figure this out.

                • deadrody

                  Interesting. Only individuals and one man corporations. When did they cut Derek Jeter and Mo Rivera ? I must have missed that news.

              • Count Zero

                Beat me to it. :-)

      • Clayton

        To be correct, it started with Steve Howe

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

          Babe Ruth says hello.

          Seriously, how is Babe Ruth any different at all from Manny Ramirez? Every single character assassination you can claim for Manny, Babe Ruth practically created.

          Massive ego and sense of entitlement? Check.
          Huge salary? Check.
          Bad teammate? Check.
          Dogged it in the field? Check.
          Ex Redsock? Check.
          MSM said he was bad for the game? Check.
          Absolutely pounded the snot out of the ball and singlehandedly kept his teams in contention every year? Check.

          This is the greatest Yankee of all time and the signature player of our franchise, and somehow signing Manny would be un-Yankee-like? Please.

          If bringing Manny on board offends your Yankee sensibilities, either grow up or go find a new team.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

            This is, word for word, what I was about to say. This wouldn’t start with Manny. It didn’t start with Darryl or Wade Boggs. It started with Babe Ruth, the ultimate Boston carpetbagger. Somehow, Yankee fans got over that.

            • steve (different one)

              i guess i was too slow.

          • Chris C.

            Seriously, how is Babe Ruth any different at all from Manny Ramirez?

            Did Ruth fake injuries? Tank AB’s? Piss on the left field wall while talking on his cell phone during a ballgame? Wear dopey dreadlocks? Was Ruth offered huge money to play when he was 36?

            • Chris C.

              When you realize Babe Ruth’s true contributions to the game at a time when the entire country had soured on Major League Baseball, I think you’ll be a bit embarassed that you can’t tell the difference between him and Manny Ramirez.

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

                Your dogged adherence to your flawed, juvenile narrative is admirable, in a pathetic sort of way.

          • Chris C.

            “If bringing Manny on board offends your Yankee sensibilities, either grow up or go find a new team.”

            I may have to………the Yankee fanbase has turned to total spoiled crap over the years.

            There’s actaully a guy on here’s who thinks the Yankees should get Sabathia, Ramirez, Teixeira, AND Mussina.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

              Fine. Have fun rooting for the Reds or the Orioles. We won’t miss you.

              • Chris C.

                Oh, please! The Yankees have probably inked every player you’ve wanted them to sign over the past 7 years, and they still haven’t won a championship.

                It’s time for a different course of action. For one, it would be nice if they started getting keen on defense, instead of bringing in another DH.

                And let’s be frank, here. Joe Girardi is aweful. He’ll be gone before the end of the upcoming season.

                The Yankees have alot of work to do………..more than one offseason will fix. And by the time they get everything ironed out, and are poised to make a serious WS run, Ramirez will be an old, overpaid guy they can’t get rid of.

                The Red Sox have been trying to unload him for years, DESPITE his contributions to their championships. That right there should tell you how much he weighed that organization down. Or are the Red Sox just incompetent?

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

                  The Red Sox don’t employ Joe Girardi, Brian Cashman or Manny Ramirez, have several good defensive ballplayers, and are probably not all that incompetent. They’ve also won two titles in the past few years (bringing their total to a third of the Yankees total during my lifetime), thanks largely to bringing in several high priced mercenary free agents such as Manny Ramirez, David Ortiz, Johnny Damon, Mike Lowell, J.D. Drew, Pedro Martinez, Curt Schilling, Keith Foulke, Julio Lugo, Hideki Okajima, and Diasuke Matsuzaka.

                  They sound like a perfect match for you, they’ve got all the things you like and none of the things you illogically purport to hate. I suggest you leave the Yankees ans start rooting for the Red Sox, post-haste.

          • Chris C.

            “This is the greatest Yankee of all time and the signature player of our franchise, and somehow signing Manny would be un-Yankee-like?”

            How old was Babe Ruth when the Yankees brought him aboard?

          • Michael

            tommiesmithjohncarlos,

            Don’t you get tired of the romanticizing of certain players who played back “when men were men”. What a crock. Those guys were the same womanizing, self-important, primadonnas that we see today. Good thing for them, back in their day, when they would go out all night drinking and fooling around on their wives, reporters understood the “code” that you would look the other way.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

              QFT.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

        Mainly, this is because the Yankees have waaay too many fans who entered the picture in 1996, and have no true sense of the team’s history, where they were, what they accomplished, and where they need to be headed… I think it all started when they signed Daryll Strawberry. That pretty much spelled the end of looking for character ballplayers, and the beginning of any slimeball becoming a Yankee.

        Yeah, because the 1977 and 1978 World Series champion Yankees were a bunch of choirboys who never ever played for money, fame, or self-aggrandizement and were hard nosed, grinders and wonderful teammates. That’s why they called it he Bronx Zoo, because they all loved furry animals so much.

        Stop romanticizing a narrative that’s utterbullshit.

        • steve (different one)

          i love how the first sentence is about not knowing any history before 1996 and then listing a guy who was signed in 1996 as the first example of a Yankee with bad character.

        • Chris C.

          “Yeah, because the 1977 and 1978 World Series champion Yankees were a bunch of choirboys who never ever played for money, fame, or self-aggrandizement and were hard nosed, grinders and wonderful teammates.”

          Those teams were indeed hard-nosed grinders! They’d kick you in the teeth if that’s what it took to win a ballgame. Sure, they didn’t get along, but they all shared a drive to win that went beyond the money they made. But the Yankees are trying to build another dynasty here, and that isn’t the kind of blueprint you’d want to follow for that.
          It was amazing that they repeated without killing each other first.

          Go look at the players on the 1977 team though…….then watch all the emotion that comes from Bobby Abreau after he makes an out.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

            You can’t judge a guy by his external emotions. You don’t have to act like Papelbon to harbor emotions.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

            Sure, they didn’t get along, but they all shared a drive to win that went beyond the money they made.

            Catfish Hunter and Reggie Jackson, aging superstar veterans that George Steinbrenner bought, mercenary style, “shared a drive to win that went beyond the money they made”… and that’s why they won titles for us, unlike what Manny Ramirez, that evil mercenary soldier-of-fortune teammate-killing cellphone having punk of a loser mercenary would ever do, right?

            Clearly, facts and historical accuracies just don’t mean shit to you, do they?

            • Chris C.

              “Catfish Hunter and Reggie Jackson, aging superstar veterans that George Steinbrenner bought, mercenary style, “shared a drive to win that went beyond the money they made”… and that’s why they won titles for us”

              Hunter wasn’t that great, and was constantly injured. That was actually a bad signing.
              And Jackson was what, 30 year old? Hardly “aging”.

              Jackson’s 3-homer game cemented his legacy. Otherwise, he k’d a million times a season, was terrible on defense, fought with the manager constantly, and had an ego that overshadowed the fact that the Yankees brilliant pitching was the #1 reason for their championships.

              And you just named basically the only two big FA signings from that team (aside from Gossage and John in 1978). The rest of the guys were either from their system, or acquired via trades.

      • http://www.workwithpete.com Pete

        And Mickey Mantle was somehow a saint?

        • Chris C.

          Mickey Mantle, by all accounts, was an excellent teammate.

          Manny Ramirez, by many accounts, is not.

        • Michael

          Good point Pete!
          Ever notice why guys like Mantle, Jackson, Goose, El Duque, Boomer, Catfish, et al.. are considered “colorful guys, with personality who deliver in the clutch” instead of “disruptive clubhouse cancers like Manny”?…because they delivered for the Yankees.

          Funny how winning a few WS rings tends to help some fans forget how lucky some former players are, to have played in an era where there wasn’t 24 hour sports talk and internet blogs. I promise you, whatever character issues Manny has, those guys above aren’t too far behind.

      • Michael

        “……….too many Yankee fans have entered the picture since 1996…”

        Chris,
        Please enlighten the audience with your stories of visiting the Bronx back when admission was only a nickel; or when you and your cousins Vito, Tony, and Sal would play stick ball behind the Olive Garden while listening to Roger Maris chase #61….
        Thanks for setting the record straight for all of the Johnny-come-lately!

  • Jon W.

    You would have to think that any offer to Manny would be contingent on the Yankees finding a taker for Damon or Matsui. If they could get a reasonable haul for either one, I’m all for an offer to Manny. He’s a nutcase, and he’d have his battles with the media, but he’d also produce.

    I also think his presence would take a lot of pressure off ARod, both on and off the field.

    • Reggie C.

      I think trading either guy won’t be difficult, but you won’t get much unless they are part of a larger package for a noteworthy hitter/pitcher. Both are entering their respective last contract year. Personally i’d rather hold onto Damon b/c he’s been really solid and is still versatile. Matsui is a DH and therefore the likely landing spot would be a AL team. But don’t both have NTC ??

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      I also think his presence would take a lot of pressure off ARod, both on and off the field.

      Not only that, but ARod would see so, so many better pitches to hit with Manny behind him…

      Ruth and Gehrig, all over again.

      • http://www.workwithpete.com Pete

        Sort of like what Sheffield could have provided, minus the scowling.

        I agree with the others about a possible 4 year deal: Not ideal, BUT: Giambi’s out, Matsui & Abreu (with the option) out next year too.

        Then you’re only left with *one* DH/OF-type with a bloated contract. Where’s the problem with that?

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

          Exactly. I couldn’t in good conscience advocate adding Manny if Giambi, Damon, Matsui, Abreu, Posada, et. al. were all still under contract for the next 3-5 years. But they’re not.

          We’d be moving from five or six defensive liabilities who are pretty good hitters to one defensive liability who’s an outstanding hitter (plus one more in Posada who’s still very good.)

  • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

    And, although I’m certainly on record as being all for acquiring Manny (as well as being all for having a four-way with Misses Union, Ebanks, and Saldana), I tend to agree that the Dodgers will probably pony up for the first time in recent memory for Manny. He’s a singular talent, he’s PERFECT for that town, and their offense/team would be a trainwreck without him.

    I still don’t buy all those numbers thrown out there, though. 3 or 4 years, AAV between 19-21M.

    And, then they dig up Jeff Gillooly to whack Andruw Jones on the knee with a tireiron to try and get out from under his contract with insurance payments.

    • Reggie C.

      Andruw Jones is entering the final year of his 2 yr deal. He’s gotta salvage something if he’s got any pride. You’re right though. The Dodgers should close their eyes and offer Manny 25 Mil per for 3 years. I doubt the Yanks would match.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

        You know what, though? If all I had to do was match 3 years and 75M, I’d do that.

        • Reggie C.

          Interesting. I think the chance to play the RS and at Fenway 9 times a year would tip Manny to our team if we matched LA’s offer.

        • http://www.workwithpete.com Pete

          Honestly I think we could have him for even less. The guy grew up down the frickin’ street from the Stadium…

      • deadrody

        Well, the Dodgers can offer whatever they want, but there is now way in hell a Scott Boras client is going forego bidding on the open market. NO.WAY.

    • Andy In Sunny Daytona

      I say that the Yankees should throw their financial muscle around and sign Manny, CC and Tex. Screw it, its only money. It’s not like if they have a smaller payroll that ticket prices are gonna go down.

      • deadrody

        Absolutely no doubt, Andy. Plus, once you sign the first Type A FA, the next 1, 2, or 3 don’t cost YOUR picks. Bonus.

  • Nady Nation

    Question – what would people rather have, Teix for 7 years or Manny for 4? I’m going on the assumption that we won’t pony up the necessary dough to land both. I’d have to go Teix. Thoughts?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Prior to 2008, PECOTA preferred Teixeira over Manny in the long run, and while Manny blew out his PECOTA projection once he landed in LA, I think Teixeira might be a better bet for 7-8 years anyway, as hard as that may be to believe.

      • Old Ranger

        Thanks Ben…
        I’ve tried to impart that opinion all week. Everyone is in love with Manny for 4years…39/41 year old hitters are not what they once were. Whereas, Tex would end his 7 year contract at 36…much much better! 29/09.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      Yeah, if we could only get one, I’d do Tex, because while Manny is clearly a better hitter, Tex is much further away from his decline years, he’s not a liability in the field, and he’ll fill one of our holes for a longer period of time.

      And, he’s a switch hitter. That’s a huge scale-tipper in Tex’s favor.

      Still think we could sign all three, though.

      • Nady Nation

        Who’s the third? CC? Whoever you’re referring to though, I agree that we should be able to sign them all, but given Cashman’s seemingly unwillingness to keep adding payroll, I can’t see it happening

    • Reggie C.

      I wouldn’t expect Teixiera to approximate Manny’s production. That’s plain unfair, but Tex would be the better bet in the long haul simply b/c Manny’s career will be over in 3/4 years. Tex must stay healthy. Tex must stay in shape. Tex is a good bet to still be an offensive force in 7 years.

    • Rob

      Both – they can afford it and Sabathia too.

      Here’s my shopping list:

      Teixeira – 15 million (for seven years)
      Manny – 25 million (for three years)
      Sabathia – 20 million (for six years)
      Moose/Pettitte – 15 million (for two years)

      = $80 million = amount cleared this off-season

      All I need ask on any of those contracts: Who’s going to top them?

      • Reggie C.

        You won’t get Tex at an Average Annual Salary (thx Ben) of 15ML per. The Angels would simply offer 18ML and win.

        That’s why maybe … just maybe .. its worth exploring a trade for:
        ADRIAN GONZALEZ.

        We’ll still have enough money to pay Manny, CC, & Pettitte.

        • Rob

          They would offer $105M over seven years? I can’t see that. They already have a high payroll (because of Mathews and Hunter) and they’ll need to sign or replace Vlad soon, plus their pitchers coming up. Can they really afford a payroll of $150M?

          • Reggie C.

            Yeah. They can. Matthews and Hunter are both over the age of 32. You don’t avoid securing a 28/29 year old 1B for your future b/c you’re paying a couple older guys right now. That’s a bad outlook.

            • Rob

              I’m not saying you avoid it. I’m saying they may not have a choice. Their payroll this year is $120M (before Tex). For 2010 they have a decision to make on Vlad (for 2010) and they have decisions to make on Garland and F-Rod for 2009 and Escobar and Lackey for 2010. Figgins is also due a raise.

              Add all those guys up, or their replacements, and they’re easily looking at a $150M payroll. I don’t think they can afford that.

              • Reggie C.

                Angels could lock up everybody but if they fail to lock up Tex, they will take a step back offensively. I’m not saying the Angels would win a bidding war for Tex, but they gotta give it a serious run.

                F-Rod is gone. Garland is gone as well. But yes, picking up the Lackey option isn’t cheap, nor will paying him afterwards. That doesn’t change the fact that the Halos offense needs Tex to be its stabilizer once age diminishes Vlad.

                • Rob

                  See, I think they have a choice of Vlad OR Tex. But first they have to decide if they’re a contender or not. The Tex trade was sort of an “all in” move and they won one game in the playoffs.

                  The problem though is if they sign Tex, I can’t see how they let F-Rod go. But I also can’t see how they can afford both. Then they may let Garland go, but they have to replace his 200 innings. Trade more youth? Or drop more dough?

                  That’s where it comes back, for me, to Hunter and Matthews. Those over reaches will continue to hurt their payroll flexibility going forward.

                • steve (different one)

                  these numbers are way too low.

                  Sabathia for $120M? Teixeira for $105M?

                • Rob

                  Santana got 137 over 6 with 2 CY’s and two other top 5′s.

                  Sabathia (1 CY, prob 1 other top 5′s) should come close, but I don’t see how he’ll top that. And if he doesn’t, we’re going to argue the difference between $120 and 130M?

                  Teixieira – I think the market has been smarter on 1B’s. Who’s the last to get $100M? Helton and Giambi were both mistakes. Pujols got $100M over 6 but back in 2004. Teixeira getting more than Pujols? He should take it.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

                  Hey Rob:

                  “The problem though is if they sign Tex, I can’t see how they let F-Rod go.”

                  I think letting F-Rod go is a foregone conclusion. They’re not dumb enough to pony up 15M for a closer who’s not that dominant in the first place, especially with Shields and Arredondo as in-house replacements.

                  I wouldn’t factor any F-Rod money into the Angels offseason plans.

  • Rob

    Two things missed:

    1) The free agent market in 2010 offers nothing close to Manny’s production AND Matsui, Nady, and Damon go on that market then. Point is: If they don’t sign an OF this year, they’re going to need to sign one or two in 2010. Now look it it this way: Would you rather Manny, Damon, Matsui, Nady, or this year – Abreu?

    That choice should be very easy. Forget about the money. It’s not yours and the Yanks can afford it. I say three years for $75 million gets it done.

    2) Does any one doubt that Manny can play RF as well as Abreu, especially in Yankee Stadium? Sure it will be an adventure (as it was for Abreu), but his arm is intact. I’m not convinced his range is so bad that he can’t handle it. Even if he only plays RF at home, that’s a lot of lineup flexibility.

    Goldman is pushing Milton Bradley. Problem is, Manny (six years older) is still better AND plays more often.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      Agree with everything. Including avoiding Bradley, he’s an unsustainable mirage.

      • Rob

        A few years ago I thought Milton was a viable option – before Damon especially. Now, I’m convinced he just can’t be counted. His most games in the last few years is less than Manny’s fewest.

        • Count Zero

          Agreed – I love MB’s bat but the reason the Rangers DHed him this season was because they had come to the conclusion that every game he played in the field cost him one game played in total. He’s a DH with spot starts in the OF going forward.

  • Bo

    We do need a DH right?

    Why not pay the best hitter in the game and one who has a grudge against the team we compete with???

    Isn’t having the most money lead to chances like this? Why not overpay since that is our one advantage over every team right now?

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      No argument here…

    • pat

      What do you do with matsui?

      • http://www.workwithpete.com Pete

        Rotate him, Damon and Gardner in and out of LF/CF…?

  • Januz

    I cannot believe ANY Yankee fan wants Manny Ramirez here, We have enough drama going on with A-Rod’s antics, we don’t need Manny’s attitude, entourage, and dreadlocks here in the Bronx. This would be a return to the Bronx Zoo days. I am sure that Cashman & Hal will say NO to this guy, because he does not fill a need (Like Sabathia or Teixeira). I also wonder what you will do with the Damon & Matsui contracts? If you wait, until next year, Carl Crawford and Matt Holliday become free agents, one of those guys will be a much better fit.
    I am for signing no one, and building within (Holliday being added next offseason), but if the choice was Teixeira for 7 or Manny for 4? I am taking Teixeira any day of the week.

    • Rob

      Neither Crawford nor Holliday (see road numbers), at their best, give what Manny does at his worst. Besides, who says they reach free agency?

      Again, if the choice for 2009 to 2011 is Damon, Matsui, Abreu or Manny, that’s easy.

      Manny.

    • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

      we don’t need Manny’s attitude, entourage, and dreadlocks

      Those are some excellent points, Januz. I’m sure those reasons outweigh the fact that Manny Ramirez has had only one season where he posted an OPS+ below 140 since 1994, his rookie year (126, 2007).

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

        BUT THE DREADLOCKS!!! THE EVIL, NON-ROGER-MARISIAN DREADLOCKS!!!!

        WEE WILLIE KEELER, ROLLING OVER IN HIS GRAVE!!!!!!

        • Count Zero

          rofl

    • http://www.workwithpete.com Pete

      >> If you wait, until next year, Carl Crawford and Matt Holliday become free agents, one of those guys will be a much better fit. >>

      Yeah, and by then both Damon & Matsui will be at the end of *their* contracts too.

      Swap in Crawford for Damon, keep on rolling.

    • deadrody

      **** We have enough drama going on with A-Rod’s antics

      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

      Maybe that’s EXACTLY what A-Rod needs, someone to distract attention away from his fragile psyche and let him just hit. Right now he is the epicenter of the Yankees media attention. I have no doubt that would change immediately if Manny signs.

  • yankeefan91

    we need ramirez these team will be so dangerous its not even funny u imagine ramirez in front or behind arod thats like a combo like ortiz and ramirez had and remeber those 2 always u to kill us imagine wat arod and ramirez could do

  • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

    Manny Ramirez posted an 1.031-OPS this season. That is the fifth highest of his career. Is there a chance we are jumping the gun on his declining phase?

    • Chris

      He had a 927 OPS with the Red Sox. That would be the third lowest of his career. Last year he had an 881 OPS – the second lowest of his career. Maybe the bad performance was just him dogging it with the Red Sox, or maybe his reincarnation with the Dodgers was due to the craptastic nature of the NL west.

      • Rob

        I think it’s obvious he was dogging it in Beantown. That’s the thing – signing him would be sweet. Driving Sox fans nuts would be that much sweeter.

      • deadrody

        How ridiculous does that sound ? He only had an .881 OPS. Wow, that’s HORRIBLE. Second worst of his career and it would still rate second on this year’s Yankee team behind only A-Rod.

  • Mike Pop

    We have 60 mill to spend right ? how bout 20 mill to each Tex CC and Manny or if not Manny 16 or 17 to AJ

  • Mike Pop

    Man o MAn this offseason is going to be fun and probly somewhat dissapointing

  • Bill R

    picture this
    Damon – LF
    Jeter – SS
    Arod – 3B
    Manny – DH
    Teixeira – 1B
    Posada – C
    Nady – RF
    Cano- 2B
    Gardner – CF

    This is a disgustingly awesome lineup. This truly would be a 1000+ run offense. How can you say no to this! You can always keep Matsui as a bench player who can play the corner outfield spots and DH. Or we can trade him away for some hotdog vendor who cares. I’ll take many’s 30+ home runs and 100+ RBi’s any day over Matsui’s 20+ Home runs and 80+ RBI’s. Arod will be the greatest hitter alive with manny batting behind him. Look at Ortiz, he was a nobody till he stated getting good pitches cause of manny behind him. I say do it! Money is no issue at all with the new stadium, I’m sick of watching the Red Sox win world series i say we go for the knock out blow!

    • Rob

      Swap Matsui into LF and Damon in CF, with Gardner as a LIDR and it’s that much better.

      • Bill R

        I thought that initially but i question matsui’s knee in the outfield playing everyday. if he can do it than i would rather have that and get

        Damon – CF
        Jeter – SS
        Arod – 3B
        Manny – DH
        Teixeira – 1B
        Posada – C
        Nady – RF
        Matsui – LF
        Cano- 2B

        Our #9 hitter would be Cano! A man who if can get his act together should contend for a batting title! I mean c’mon this is a no brainer!

        • Rob

          There’s also no reason it shouldn’t thrive against LHP. If anything, I’d worry they’d struggle a bit more against RHP, without a big lefty bat, but you don’t re-sign Giambi nor Abreu for that reason.

          • Bill R

            well with Big Tex being a switch hitter and posada as well i think we’d have two pretty solid lefty bats there.

    • Mike Pop

      Id jizz if we had that 2-7 lineup

    • Chris C.

      If you’re so damn tired of the Red Sox winning all the time, why don’t you pay attention to what they’re doing, and emulate it?
      You think the Red Sox are great because they buy every high priced FA that comes down the pike?

      • Bill R

        We’ve tried have we not? Cano, Melky, Gardner, Christian, Shelly Duncan, Hughes, Joba, IPK, Phil Coke, etc. and here we are playing golf while boston is on their way to Tampa Bay. Our kids aren’t good enough to do what Boston does, we drafted terribly. If we want number 27 in 2009 we need Manny Ramirez.

        • Chris

          You do realize that the Red Sox missed the playoffs in 2006, and finished in third in the division?

          Over the last 5 years, the Red Sox are 470-340. The Yankees are 476-334. The difference between the two teams is that the Red Sox have gotten hot at the right time and won a few more post season games.

          • Rob

            Great stat. Still, it reminds me of the “Best record in the 1980′s” meme.

        • Chris C.

          There’s no shortcuts, pal.

          The Yankees already proved that from 1981-1993.

          Then they proved it again after 2001, when they decided against developement and to just BUY a winner.

          Go ahead……get Manny. The only thing it will get you is laughter from the Red Sox and their fans the Yankees don’t win it.

          • Lanny

            They finished 8 games back with no starting pitching and no manny and no catcher and bad defense.

            I think they’d do a little better with 2 prime FA pitchers, Manny hitting 4th and Tex hitting 5th and playing GG 1b.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

              Damn, son! LANNY’S BACK!

              Did you take a hiatus and go to smart camp before you came back? You sound like a new man!

  • X-Man

    Remember our top is 180-185mm,

  • Mike Pop

    manny tex and burnettt is good for me

  • Mike Pop

    this is a good topic

  • RichYF

    Sucks to be late to the argument, but my stance on this matter is pretty simple and hasn’t been touched on enough.

    A lot of people are saying that Manny would be a distraction to the team in terms of his antics on/off the field. Someone like Manny is EXACTLY what this team needs. Right now, everything A-Rod does is under a microscope. If Manny were “being Manny,” it would take some pressure off of Alex. Clearly Manny can handle the media and it doesn’t appear that he cares too much about it. If we slot him into the lineup, I’m pretty sure he’ll #1 produce and #2 keep the eyes on himself for AT LEAST half a season. Not to mention, those excruciating games vs. the Sox. What will the media focus on? PlayedRod or the Sox vs. Manny?

    Screw his bat, I’d pay $25 million to have our MVP back.

    • Count Zero

      I don’t usually subscribe to “intangibles” theories, but as they go — this is a pretty good one. I agree that Manny would likely steal some microscope time from A-Rod.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

        Cosign.

        • deadrody

          I’ll third the motion

    • Rob

      Well said. I couldn’t agree more.

  • Lanny

    Cashman wants to get younger and more athletic. Unless they put Manny at DH I can’t see this happening. Even though Boras would kill for the Yankees to be involved.

    But you do have 100 mill coming off the books and a new stadium opening up and revenues flowing.

    Why not grab the best hitter going?

    And this team has no top level position players in the minors. They are going to have to big game hunt the top FA’s.

    • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

      I agree. I think Cashman will not make this move but should. I would offer Manny more money than that for less years but a lot would be incentives.

      Ton of money.
      More than half tied to performance.
      Less years than 4 or 5 but more money than 85 Mill.

      A haircut would be in the contract.

      Have him hit behind or in front of Gay Rod and that lineup is sick.

  • A.D.

    Well quite the heated argument on this. I think if you see the Yankees sign Manny its in a situation where nothing else happened for them (i.e. No Tex, C.C., or big trade).

    If you get Tex, you don’t need Manny, and while Manny is the best hitter available, Tex would likely have a better impact with the combo of no distractions, in his prime, gold glove defender, and a damn good bat.

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  • Januz

    I am not concerned about the regular season (where did the best records get the Cubs and Angels?) It is about having quality pitching. Guys like Beckett, Lester, and Dice K are why the Sox are where they are now (Manny is GONE and they are still right there………….. the favorite to win it all). The Yankees are not even close to the Sox or Rays (And David Price is coming next year). Brackman, Pope, McAllister, Betances, and Hughes (To go with Joba and Wang), are the key to catching those teams. If and when they are ready for the majors.

    • whozat

      but if you don’t win enough games in the post-season, you don’t even GET to the playoffs.

      The Yankees’ most surprising failing this year was the offense. They need to figure out a long-term solution for that. The pitching is coming. Trading all of it for bats would be bad, yes…But, they really do need to figure out a way to get some high-upside position playing talent in the high minors. Maybe trading JD and some very young pitching could do it. If that means Betances or McAllister…well, maybe that’s what it means.

      • A.D.

        Presumably if you have that top notch pitching, you make the playoffs. But having murders row doesn’t necessarily get you a WS, there’s no bad pitching to pound in the playoffs, just ask Alfonso Soriano

    • deadrody

      Red Sox are the favorite ? I don’t think they are even the favorite to win their next series.

  • dkidd

    you know who would protect a-rods bat? mark texiera. get him and cc, end of story.

    • Bill R

      True, but you know who would protect Arod’s bat and his image in the media…. Manny, end of story

      • dkidd

        that’s a really good point. manny’s the only player on the planet who would allow a-rod to fly below the radar

  • Ricochet

    The Yankees aren’t interested in Manny, 0% of happening. Girardi doesn’t want him and neither does Cashman and the Boss is no long running the team so he’s not going to be a Yankee.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos

      You know this how?

  • Joseph M

    Manny would fit very nicely behind AROD in the line up. Further he should be the fulltime DH just like Chilli Davis back in the day. The Yanks should trade Matsui (for whatever they can get) play Damon in left, Gardner and Melky in center Nady in right.

  • Joba_Joba

    Your 2009 Yankees:

    L: Damon CF
    R: Jeter SS
    S: Teixeira 1B
    R: ARod 3B
    R: Manny LF
    S: Posada C
    L: Matsui DH
    R: Nady RF
    L: Cano 2B

    Starters:
    Sabathia
    Wang
    Joba
    Pettitte
    Hughes / Aceves

    Pen:
    Hughes / Aceves
    Bruney
    Coke
    Marte
    Veras
    Ramirez
    Rivera

    Bench:
    Molina
    Ransom
    Gardner
    Betemit

    • Old Ranger

      Johnny in CF with Manny in LF is very very bad…shudder at the thought. 27/09.

  • WillY

    My plan for this off season:

    Sign:
    Texiera – 7yr/ 23MM/yr
    Manny – 3yr/ 25MM/yr
    Sabathia – 6yr/ 23MM/yr
    Pettitte/Moose – 2yr/ 13MM/yr
    pick up Marte’s option(some insurance just in case Coke doesn’t work out)

    Trade IPK for Taveras and Matsui for a catcher, just in case Posada goes down again.

    Lineup:
    LF Damon
    SS Jeter
    1B Texiera
    3B Rodriguez
    DH Manny
    RF Nady
    C Posada
    2B Cano
    CF Taveras

    BN:
    Molina
    Betemit
    Gardner/Cabrera
    Matsui(or a catcher if we can get one)

    Rotation:
    Sabathia
    Wang
    Chamberlain
    Hughes
    Pettitte/Moose

    Bullpen:
    Rivera
    Bruney
    Marte
    Coke
    Veras
    Ramirez
    Melancon/Giese/Robertson/Aceves

  • ortforshort

    If the Yankees don’t land Teixeira, then they need a big time righty bat in the lineup and Ramirez fits that need. Unfortunately, the price you pay is a cancer in the clubhouse, another old one dimenesional outfielder on the club, and someone who’s huge contract you’ll have to eat two years into it. Not to mention that this slug will negate a lot of the class on the club that folks like Jeter, Rivera, Mussina and Pettitte bring to it.

  • hoosierdaddy

    i see alot of manny hating when hes in LA.. we have had success with the red sox scrap pile boggs, clemens, ruth.. there are any questions that remain.. will he cut the ragged cat that he has turned into a LA trademark off his head.. that is number one.. can he get a better obp than Abreu (yes), hr (yes) slg (yes) rbi (yes) and he hates the red sox (yes) does he understand the pride of the pinstripes….. (no).. but is he a good reason to let abreu go.. yes.. 3 solid years.. 40 hr.. 100+ RBI and not mention he hates the red sox and can hit in fenway..

  • Kelvz

    Hypothetical Question guys, although a bit late, IF, and only IF, the Yankees do sign Manny, what combo would you fear more? The Ortiz-Manny duo, or the Arod-Manny combo?

  • http://kwhitey kevin white

    This yankee team needs to get younger and get more chemistry as a team. The reason we won all those world series championships is becuse we had the best TEAM. Adding Manny Ramirez is a step in the wrong direction, besides we have enough terrible fielding left fielder/ DH types. Sign Tex.

  • Tim

    I do not believe anyone has mentioned that Manny is from the Bronx

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      No one’s mentioned it because he’s not from the Bronx. He’s from the Dominican Republic and grew up in Washington Heights in Manhattan.