Comments on: What Went Wrong: The Dynamic Duo

By: Transitioning to the off-season is a bit tougher this time | River Avenue Blues

Mon, 09 Nov 2009 18:45:54 +0000

[...] full hot stove mode. The Yankees had been home for over a month, and we’d already looked at what went wrong and what went right in the 2008 season. October was a time of reflection instead of excitement, so [...]

By: ceciguante

ceciguante — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:24:14 +0000

one other thing: i would’ve been fine with hughes as one experiment in the 5 spot, and a more reliable/experienced option in the 4 spot. but there is no reason this $200M team should have entrusted 2/5 of the rotation to hughes & IPK, w/ ham ‘n eggers like rasner and karstens as the backups. that decision alone probably cost the team several games in ’08. a better GM, with that budget, never would have taken such a risk.

By: ceciguante

ceciguante — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 15:16:25 +0000

yes, you were being a smart ass. par for the course with you, despite what are sometimes good insights.

i don’t think pointing out that 2 pitchers were at 400 and 430 IP, when the other 3 were at 700+, is a meaningful deviation from 500 IP. i didn’t say pitchers need 500 IP in all cases, i said it’s been written that they *tend to* need that many, as a guideline. as i said, it’s the rare doc gooden who excels at such a young age as hughes.

further to my point (which you acknowledged), kennedy had even fewer pro IP than hughes entering ’08 (~240). so cashman’s comparison of hughes and IPK to the twins 2008 starters was misleading. and i’m sure cashman knew that, but he tries to spin the matter to cover his ass. he’s not winning points with me there.

let me also be clear: i don’t think ALL pitchers should be held in MiLB until they reach 500 IP, i just think cashman erred in depending on TWO such unseasoned pitchers in his rotation. i agree hughes showed a little promise in september ’07, but that had to be taken w/ a grain of salt too (sample size, etc.). cashman screwed up, and it cost us some wins in 08.

By: B

Fri, 03 Oct 2008 05:11:34 +0000

By: steve (different one)

steve (different one) — Fri, 03 Oct 2008 00:14:43 +0000

your parroting of cashman was either disingenuous too, or merely ignorant. (pick one)

you said pitchers need 500 innings before they are ready.

i showed you that the Twins had TWO pitchers who started the season with significantly less than 500 innings under their belts.

that’s all i was saying. i admitted i was being a smart ass with my last line, but you posted your second post before i got in there.

By: steve (different one)

steve (different one) — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 23:59:55 +0000

let me add, since i was being a smart ass, that i think you have a point with Kennedy.

but Hughes did pitch about 80 innings in the majors last year and he pitched well. league average at 21 in the majors? extremely positive sign that Hughes was special.

we’ll never know b/c he was injured, but i think the yankees had some solid evidence that Hughes was ready for the majors this year.

By: ceciguante

ceciguante — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 23:57:28 +0000

don’t try that bullshit here. you cherry picked 2 of the 5 twins starters, and both still had more IP than hughes. sorry, i’d call 400 or 430 IP “close to” 500. much more so than 275.

baker, 27, had 760 pro IP entering this year.
blackburn, 26, had 700.
liriano, 24, had 750.
slowey, 24, had 430.
perkins, 25, had 400.
avg twins “kids” pro innings entering ’08 = 610
hughes pro innings entering ’08 = 350

hughes was rushed. and my point, again, is that cashman was disingenuous in trying to justify reliance on hughes and IPK by pointing to the success of these five (see kepner article), all who have more experience than hughes. your parroting of cashman was either disingenuous too, or merely ignorant. (pick one)

By: ko

ko — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 23:56:54 +0000

Its interesting reading all the excuses people make for Cashman’s blunders. He screwed up. Hopefully, he’ll learn from his mistakes for the Yankees sake. Moving forward, Cashman needs to acquire two top starters this winter to put the Yankees back to the top. Meanwhile Hughes, Kennedy, Aceves, etc. can be worked in gradually as they gain the ability to get big league hitters out. If you’re the Royals or the Nationals, you can afford to throw the youngsters in and let them sink or swim. If you expect to be a perennial contender you don’t have that luxury.

By: mustang

mustang — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:55:43 +0000

Come on so did YES. I can still remember the YES commercials with the three of them something about a new era or something. No pressure there. Lets not forget Hank this winter.
The Cano things I agree with you that’s just people being silly.

By: steve (different one)

steve (different one) — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 22:45:22 +0000

hughes had what, 200 before this year?

he had 275 and 75 in the majors. so 350.

and neither Slowey nor Perkins had close to 500 minor league innings before this year.

Perkins had about 400 professional innings and Slowey had about 430.

not much more than Hughes.

your research is “piss poor”