Angels getting in on the CC show

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Via MLB Trade Rumors we learn that the Angels are having discussions with CC Sabathia. While the timing comes somewhat of a surprise — the Angels still haven’t made an offer to Mark Teixeira — it was assumed from the start that the Halos would get involved. LA Times scribe Bill Shaikin notes that the Angels are reluctant to offer Tex the 10 years he seeks. Of course, Scott Boras will neither confirm nor deny the first baseman’s intentions.

No offer has been officially extended, however it is believed that the Angels could offer something “in the range of Johan Santana’s six-year, $137.5-million contract.” Clearly, the term “in the range” could mean a number of things. Will they offer a little less? A little more? Will they match the Yankees reported six-year, $140 million offer? Or did they just leak this story to show Teixeira that they’re serious?

(You have 24 hours to sign our contract. And to show you we’re serious…you have 12 hours.)

We know that Sabathia could opt for the West Coast, even if the Yankees offer the largest contract. That scenario becomes more likely if the Angels offer him a deal better than Santana’s, even if it’s not by much. The Yanks would surely up their bid under that scenario, but how much, if anything, would be enough?

Missing out on CC could mean a number of changes to the off-season plan. The focus could shift to Teixeira. If signed, Nick Swisher would move to the outfield. Do you dish Damon or Nady at that point? Do you go into the season with an OF of Nady-Damon-Swisher and hope for the best defensively?

There aren’t any easy answers to these questions. Yet the Yankees may be faced with them in the coming weeks. I do not envy Brian Cashman right now.

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  • radnom

    I think they are still focusing on Texiera…offense is their priority this offseason.
    They also know that Tex won’t be signing for a while….probably after CC does.

    Since no one else has stepped up to raise the price on Sabbathia, I think the Angels are trying to insure that we pay enough for CC that we won’t also make a serious run at Texiera.
    If he signs for about what Santana’s deal is, I’m sure they would love to have him, but I think this is about driving up the price.

    • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

      I understand your point on raising the price for the Yankees so they do not get Tex as well. I always did not truly buy those situations though because would it not also raise the overall pitching market for when they have to pay for pitchers? Or do teams not really think about that? Anybody ever hear a GM talk about that?

      As for the main post:

      “Missing out on CC could mean a number of changes to the off-season plan. The focus could shift to Teixeira. If signed, Nick Swisher would move to the outfield. Do you dish Damon or Nady at that point? Do you go into the season with an OF of Nady-Damon-Swisher and hope for the best defensively?”

      I think you would have to move whoever you could get the best package for out of Damon and Nady. Swisher is cheap for MLB standards and we need some cheaper players on this team in some slots. Nady and Damon are Boras guys right? No way they just come back for a one year deal on the cheap if somebody else offers a multi year deal (maybe nobody will on Damon but I have to expect even in bad economic times that Nady would get a few years at a nice clip)

      • radnom

        That is a good point, and I agree that people cry “raising the price” far too often when it doesn’t really apply.
        In this situation, however, I don’t think they Angels wouldn’t really be concerned about the overall martket for free agent pitching, considering that is a strength of their team and they are not linked to any other of the top FA hurlers besides CC. To them, the market on Tex is all that matters, and the more money the Yankees have locked up in Sabbathia, the better that market looks.

        • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

          Yeah I guess if any team does not care it could be the Angles because of their own financial might and the amount of youngerish pitchers they already have locked down but in the long run it still raises their costs across the board but maybe they just look at that as a cost of doing business.

  • Matt

    In the range of Santana’s? Then it basically is the same offer the Yanks offered up.

    I’m not going to get nervous until the Angels talk money and years with CC. We also know that the Yanks will go higher, so we’ll see.

  • yankeestripes

    I agree with that point just bump up move nobody wants cc more than me but if the angels offer him santana money god bless him.

    • Reggie C.

      If the Angels do offer CC that kind of deal, then we’re forced to go up to $150 M. Its a dangerous ploy for the Angels though … they need Tex just as bad as we need CC. Its one or the other.

  • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

    “You have 24 hours to sign our contract. And to show you we’re serious…you have 12 hours.”

    Homer: You mean the mob only did me a favor to get something in return? Oh, Fat Tony! I will say good day to you, sir!

  • A.D.

    In a scenario where Swisher gets pushed to the OF, is it better to start him or Damon in CF? They have similar ZR last year (slight edge to Swisher) and similar RF (slight edge to Damon).

    • http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)

      good question.

      Damon would probably play a better CF, but keeping him in LF may keep him healthier.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      I’d put Swish in CF over Damon, personally. I have no stats to back that up though, so I can be convinced. But Damon seems to have more trainwreck potential than Swish, from the limited action I saw of Swish the past few seasons…

      • Bo

        Train wreck potential?

        Not like Damon hasn’t played CF all his life or anything and been an all star doing it.

        So hes more a train wreck there than the 1b turned CF??

        ok…

        • jsbrendog (rocks)

          i think what he means is damon is imperative to this offense inthe leadoff hole and as we’ve seen he gets injured more when playing CF regularly. His health is mroe important to the lineup due to his game relying on speed etc. swisher cna play banged up and still hit 20-30 hr and give damon-esque cf defense.

          therefore i would put swusher in cf and damon in lf because as a leadoff hitter his total health is more important because his game depends on health to be successful….

        • http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)

          Swisher is apparently not terrible in CF. he’s more athletic than he looks.

          i don’t think he is a permanent solution in CF, but the Yankees might be able to get by with him for a year.

          i agree that Damon would be better, but the question is if he can take the wear and tear.

          • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

            “i agree that Damon would be better, but the question is if he can take the wear and tear.”

            The answer on that is NO. Damon can not stay healthy at all. I pick neither in that case. Give me a guy that can run down fly balls and has an arm and can hit .270 with no power over either of them in CF. Give me Melky over either of them in CF and I am not a big Melky fan. How boy Jimmy Edmonds platoon with somebody? He has got to be a cheap option.

            • jsbrendog (rocks)

              damon or swisher >>>> jijm edmonds

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                You argue against letting Johnny Damon play CF because he’s too injury prone and brittle… and you want to instead give CF time to Jim Edmonds.

                Brilliant.

                It’s literally as if you start speaking and have no earthly clue where your thought process is going. You continue to amaze. Your utter lack of logic and consistent self-contradiction is quickly reaching legendary proportions. You have shattered all unintentional comedy scales. I’m starting to think you’re doing this on purpose, and we’re only slowly realizing that this is all a ruse…

              • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

                I have not seen enough of Swisher in CF to judge him personally but I have seen enough of Damon to know he can not do the job in 2009, I think we all have.

                Maybe we can get Joe Torre’s favorite ballplayer Kenny Lofton.

                • jsbrendog (rocks)

                  damon or swisher >>>>>>>> lofton (who didnt even play last year) but ill give you this one for the humor factor :-P as long as you weren’t serious

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          Well, Bo, yes, Damon has played CF all his life, at an All-Star caliber. However, he also turned 35 at the start of this month, he’s an injury risk, and he hasn’t played an all-star caliber CF in about three years.

          You know, it is possible to praise a player’s skills in the past while still doubting their ability to play to that same level of skill in the present. Just in case you didn’t know…

    • Thomas

      I’d say it is a better idea to leave Gardner in the CF (assuming he is passable), put Swisher on the corner, and DH Damon. I think they could just dump Matsui or put him on the bench for the majority of games.

      • radnom

        No offense, but it is INSANE to bench Matsui in favor of Gardner.

        • jsbrendog (rocks)

          i wouldn’t go so far as insane until you see if he can produce. The matsui of last year with bad kenes was not so good. but if the yanks sign tex (which this whole discussion is dependant on) then swisher shoul go to cf, damon to left, matsui to dh, where he already was, and melky to aaa or to the scrap heap for a bag of baseballs.

          • radnom

            Gardner is not going to produce enough to beat out Matsui, even with the defensive advantage provided when he is in the lineup. That just isn’t happening.

            We shouldn’t “wait and see if this happens”…..by that logic we should give Ransom a shot to see if he can do a better job at SS than Jeter. You never know.

            • jsbrendog (rocks)

              Well matui is the dh. no question. but if he doesn’t hit the ball out of the infield for over a month and swisher is having a good run then it makes sense to get gardner some abs to see what he can do (still an unknown) and put wisher at dh. mind you this is only if matsui hits like his first name is kaz, or rey ordonez…

              • radnom

                There is no way that happens unless Matsui is seriously re-injured.
                I can’t believe people are forgetting how good of a hitter Matsui really is.

                • jsbrendog (rocks)

                  that’s what I’m saying! haha

            • Thomas

              I’m not saying everyday, maybe have Gardner out there 4 out of 5 games.

              If you don’t how many games do you think Damon will play at full health playing either LF or CF everyday. Also Matsui got hurt last year as mainly a full time DH. They will need to play Gardner a good chunk of time.

              • radnom

                Matsui was hurt but should be fully rehabbed by the time the season starts. You don’t bench him in anticipation of getting hurt again.
                Also, I’m not sure why you are under the impression that Damon can’t stay healthy playing LF on an everyday basis..he is getting older but last year was the first time he went on the DL and it was from a freak seperated shoulder he got from leaping into the wall. It is not like he body is breaking down again.

                If they have Tex at first they dont need to get Gardner a good chunk of time. He would be there if someone gets hurt and to provide some rest but thats it.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  I guess what I see is, if we add Tex, Swish moves to the OF rotation, and your starters are Damon in LF, Swish in CF, and Nady at RF, with Matsui at DH, but Gardner spells all three, spot starts at CF (with Swish sliding over to one of the corner spots), is a frequent ate-inning replacement for Damon, etc.

                  I think getting Gardner time should still be a goal of this team, because he does have potential (not production, but potential) to be a passable big-league outfielder. So, Matsui is the DH, but he’s watched like a hawk and given tons of rest, especially in the beginning of the year, if his knees start barking; and Damon slides over to DH opening a spot for Gardner frequently.

                • Thomas

                  Your right. They should start with Matsui in there and Damon/Swisher/Nady in the OF and just use Gardner as a sub or defensive replacement. However, I suspect Gardner will play a lot as an injury replacement.

                • radnom

                  Ok, but that isn’t what you said Thomas, you said that as long as Gardner was “passable”, Matsui should just be benched. Glad you’ve come around.

                  And Tommie I totally disagree that developing Gardener on the major league level to become a “passable big league outfeilder”(your words) would be a priority if this team owned Tex. If that was the case, the Yankees would have a 3 more-than”passable” outfeilders and a more-than-passable DH.
                  Gardner would still get a fair amout of playing time, but that would be done strictly to keep everyone fresh/healthy.

          • radnom

            p.s.
            Agreed on everything minus the very first line.

  • Reggie C.

    Its a bluff to capture Boras’s attention and have him step up the pace on fielding offers. As of today I haven’t read of one offer made to Tex. The Angels are trying to get a feel of Tex’s market, especially with one forming around their alternative top choice (CC).

    Its simply a way to break up the inertia.

  • Bo

    These are all negotiating tactics.

    Maybe they really want Tex and by talking to CC they get Tex to the table. Knowing there is only one 150$ mill deal.

    But maybe they’d rather pay CC 140 than Tex 200 if he wants 10 yrs.

    Maybe they want to make the Yankees pay 150 for CC so they are def out of the Tex game.

  • Glen L

    Lets say, just for the sake of having something to discuss, the Angels over Johan years and money +1, the Union’s happy and CC’s happy and CC’s an Angel

    I imagine the Yankees will seriously up their efforts to get Burnett, but do they then charge hard after Sheets? or risk getting Derek Lowe – a competant pitcher and innings eater – but a pitcher, nonetheless, who relies on his defense behind him – not the yankees strength exactly with Jeter behind him

    Personally, I’d rather see them get Burnett and Sheets in that scenario, but that’s a lot of injury risk

    • jsbrendog (rocks)

      at that point you just cross your fingers and hope that they dont both get injured at the same time lol

    • radnom

      I actually disagree. I think if you don’t get CC you must get Lowe.
      CC slotted in as a 200+ innings guy you could count on (well, as much as you can count on any pitcher).
      The Yankees really need to sign someone they can count on to give them a full year of starts and neither Burnett or Sheets is that guy.
      Should they miss out on CC, they would have to persue Lowe as hard as possible and then sign one of Burnett/Sheets inaddition; but Lowe would be the priority.

      When CC does sign with us though, Lowe is no longer needed or wanted, but I guess we could still sign one of Burnett or Sheets.
      I think most people here are aware of how I feel regarding which of those two we should persue.

      • jsbrendog (rocks)

        sheets by a length

        • radnom

          Duh.

      • Reggie C.

        That makes alot sense. So if CC does end up going to the West Coast, cash should make winning runs at both Lowe and Sheets.

        Its amazing how in the span of 1 day really, this board in it relative entirety has turned against a Burnett signing.

        • jsbrendog (rocks)

          i was against it from the beginning…i think

          • radnom

            I have been very vocal against it from the start as well, Tommie was usually one of my only allies. After Mike’s post about it a lot more people have started comming around, finally.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              The drum we have been beating tirelessly thanks you all.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              “I voted for it before I voted against it.”

              -John Kerry

  • ko

    If I were a betting man (I am), I’d have to bet on the Angels (and the Red Sox for that matter) getting their man over the Yankees – just based on the individual histories involved. Cashman doesn’t have much of a track record in convincing the big free agents to come to New York (unless you consider Igawa and Pavano big). The Angels, on the other hand, always seem to get their man.

    On the Swisher thing. Since when does this guy get pencilled in as an automatic starter? Lifetime .244 hitters coming off .219 seasons are pencilled in as automatic reserves in my book, unless you’re the Royals, Nationals or Pirates, of course – hopefully this isn’t the wave of the future for the Yankees.

    • radnom

      You’re right.
      Igawa and Pavano are the biggest free agents the Yankee’s have signed in the recent past.

      Good point.

      • http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)

        not really. it’s a stupid point and one that this guy keeps repeating over and over.

        Giambi, Mussina, A-Rod, Sheffield, Matsui, Damon, Pettitte

        those were all “big free agents” at the time.

        and Pavano WAS considered a big get at the time.

        Igawa wasn’t even a free agent.

        • http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)

          and radnom, if you were being sarcastic, feel free to give me a facepalm.

          • radnom

            I was a little worried I hadn’t made it quite obvious enough, but I’m just going to chalk this one up to a broken detector.

            Also, please refer to the facepalm just below
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    • jsbrendog (rocks)

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      don’t forget jaret wright…or you know, matsui, moose, pettitte, clemens (like 7 times) damon, and I’m sure a lot more from the late 90’s early 2000’s i don’t remember……

      • radnom

        I’m pretty sure there was a recent MVP who hit 40 homers/.330 every year with an nasty OBP…..forget his name though….oh yeah Giambi.
        That was a pretty big free agent…I mean it was no Igawa, but whatever.

    • Rick in Boston

      Not sure where “they always seem to get their man” in free agency comes from. The biggest name Theo landed on the free agent market was Schilling, while the Angels nabbed Vlad.

      • radnom

        The biggest name Theo landed on the free agent trade market was Schilling,

        • Rick in Boston

          Oh that’s right…so yeah. JD Drew I guess then.

    • Chip

      So if I read your post right, Mussina/Giambi/Matsui/Damon aren’t as big as Igawa/Pavano? Hell, Farnsworth is above that category.

      And also, since Swisher has a career .244 batting average, his career 112 OPS+ is meaningless. Soon you’ll be saying we should sign Randy Johnson again because he won 15 games for us

      • jsbrendog (rocks)

        if you are referring to me iw as being sarcastic…because his comment was just so awe inspiringly just HUH!?

        • Chip

          Hahaha, no I was referring to Ko and making fun of the general lack of understanding that neither BA or Wins are a good test of how good a player is

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      If I were a betting man (I am), I’d have to bet on the Angels (and the Red Sox for that matter) getting their man over the Yankees – just based on the individual histories involved. Cashman doesn’t have much of a track record in convincing the big free agents to come to New York (unless you consider Igawa and Pavano big). The Angels, on the other hand, always seem to get their man.
      On the Swisher thing. Since when does this guy get pencilled in as an automatic starter? Lifetime .244 hitters coming off .219 seasons are pencilled in as automatic reserves in my book, unless you’re the Royals, Nationals or Pirates, of course – hopefully this isn’t the wave of the future for the Yankees.

      Allow me to sum up ko’s point, for brevity’s sake:

      The Yankees suck. We never do anything right, and other teams are awesome and do everything right. If we fail to sign CC, it will be because we suck and other GM’s are smarter and more handsome than Cashman. If we do sign CC, we overpaid, we’re idiots, and he’s a bum. Also, stats suck and nobody is as smart as me at judging talent. And the sky is falling.

      • A.D.

        Does Igawa even count as a big FA signing… after all they paid a posting fee so they were the only ones that could negotiate with him. Its not really “Free” agent when he can negotiate with 1 team

      • jsbrendog (rocks)

        and other GM’s are smarter and more handsome than Cashman

        well he is bald…..or balding….

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          And Kevin Towers has a $5 footlong.

          • Mike Pop

            Heh

    • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

      if that lifetime 244 hitter is a lifetime 354 obp guy then yes, he does become a starter

  • Yank Crank 20

    This story is no big deal. There was a very slim chance CC was going to sign anywhere without hearing offers from the West Coast teams. We all knew this, and Cashman knew it too. If the Angels make an offer, the Yanks offer more and hope he wants to be in New York. That’s all you can really do and hope for the best.

    If he goes to the Angels for less money than we know he really didn’t want to be in New York, and to me that’s ok. Yeah we’re better with CC, but if he doesn’t want to be in New York than I don’t want him here either. You want guys who want to be a Yankee.

  • nick blasioli

    hell no we dont want nady,damon, swisher as our outfield for next season…i hope not….tex is just a must to help our offense….hell abreu wouldnt be a bad idea for a year if he will go for it….cant wait to see how this developes…

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      I disagree. Looking at their career production ratestats, if you have:

      Johnny Damon giving you a .289/.354/.435
      Nick Swisher giving you a .244/.354/.451
      Xavier Nady giving you a .280/.335/.458

      That’s a quality outfield. Sure, none of them are superstars, but all of them are getting on base and getting enough XBH’s to not be a drain on your offense. None of them are bad offensive players, they’re all solidly above average. And none of them are bad defenders, Damon is the only one you’re truly concerned about (and most of that is durability, not ability, concerns). Plus, Gardner’s their backup, and he’s a very good defender and is improving with the bat.

      When you consider that we have an outfield with no black holes, and likely have above average offensive production from SS, 2B, and C, and WELL above average production from 3B, we’ll be okay. I agree that we should be going all-out for Tex, but I don’t see what getting or not getting him has to do with Damon-Swisher-Nady somehow not being a good outfield. It’s solid.

  • Kyle

    “Yet the Yankees may be faced with them in the coming weeks. I do not envy Brian Cashman right now.”

    I have to believe that Cash & Co. made their initial offer of 6/140 knowing full well that would not be the deal that is eventually agreed upon. That being said, I’d have to assume the Front Office has this all mapped out. They know that another team would “at least” match their initial offer and the Yankess swoop in a blow him away with additional money or maybe even another year. That, to me, is the beauty of the offer the Yankees made to CC. Not just the dollars & years but the timing. By offering such an offer when they did, it gives them the edge over all teams because they can simply trump any offer as they come in. The way the Yankees have gone after CC gives them a great amount of leverage.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

      “I have to believe that Cash & Co. made their initial offer of 6/140 knowing full well that would not be the deal that is eventually agreed upon.”

      Wait, you mean to tell me that the Yankees made an offer and didn’t expect the target to accept immediately?

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        WHY THE FUCK IS MY BURRITO TAKING THIS LONG TO COOK IN THIS MICROWAVE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!

  • Chip

    This is why the Angels won’t sign CC, they need Tex.

    They’ll already have to pay Lackey big money after this season which pretty much stops them from getting both. If they lose out on Tex, who plays first? They traded their first basemen to get him and from what I understand, they don’t have anybody ready right away. It’d be like the Yankees losing A-Rod, where do they get production from now?

    The Yankees will end up with CC because the Yankees need CC more than anybody else. Same goes with the Angels and Tex. It would be quite the coup if the Yankees signed both though.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      You’re probably right. The Angels need to keep an iron in every fire (CC, Tex, Manny, Dunn, etc.) just like we do. At the end of the day, I can see them bidding on CC, but I can’t truly see them not making Tex the first priority, and if they sign Tex, they don’t sign CC.

      • Bo

        They put Morales at 1b.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          Mark Teixeira >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kendry Morales

      • Chris

        I don’t think I’d want any of those free agents after the Angel’s remove their irons from them….

  • Andy

    Any comment on this from MLB Trade Rumors?

    A rival GM tells Rosenthal Twins outfielder Delmon Young is “very, very much out there.”

    I know he is a low OBP guy right now, but he was the second coming only a year or two ago, and he’s still younger than both Melky and the 25 year old Gardner, and with way better numbers last year. 5 tool guy, might be had on the cheap – and let’s not forget the Twins seemed enamored by several Yanks prospects last year, including Kennedy. Not sure the Yanks prospects meet the Twins needs, but a great CF option in my mind…

    • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

      i think he would fit much better in RF, but yes, interesting young player

    • Chip

      They traded Garza for him before so I’d assume something on that level is what they would like to see. They probably don’t need starting pitching. I mean is Kennedy better than any of Liriano/Blackburn/Baker/Slowey/Perkins?

      I just don’t see the upgrade there for them. If anything, they’d have to trade him for a young third basemen I would think. I just don’t see how we would match up

      • http://barackobama.com TurnTwo

        right, there really isnt a match… unless you want to say someone like a Brad Suttle or AJackson… they have young pitching, much like the yankees, but would be looking for that positional player who is under control for multiple years on the cheap.

      • radnom

        They traded Garza for him before so I’d assume something on that level is what they would like to see.

        And the White Sox gave up some verid solid peices for Swisher just a year ago, but sold him off for a lot less.
        I’m not saying that would nessisarily happen again, but don’t be so quick to write things off.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          True. Most GM’s make trades in realtime, not concerned with the past. What’s happened has happened and can’t be changed.

          • Bo

            Young can’t play CF.

            And did you see what happened to the Rays after he was gone? And why are the Twins dying to move him? The guy is a clubhous e cancer.

            • Mike Pop

              Ya your right.. That is probably the reason they succeeded.. Not at all due to the emergence of Baker, Blackburn, Perkins, and Slowey… It was all Delmon Young being in the clubhouse

              • Mike Pop

                MY bad got the pitvchers confused there.. I meant the emergence of the Rays young pitchers… Sorry

          • Chip

            I agree that they don’t base it on the past but I don’t think his evaluation would have changed much. He put mostly the same numbers up. I was saying Garza in the “cost-controlled number 3 starting pitcher” sense of the word.

  • Tom_Fishman

    I think you move Nady no matter what. Sure he’s ruggedly handsome and had some fun at bats, but I feel you have to sell high there…

    • jsbrendog (rocks)

      this brought a chuckle

  • KO

    Being a Yankee fan, I hope you guys are right about Cashman, but I doubt it. He strikes me as a pencil-necked little beancounter who’s in way over his head. As far as all of those free agent signings you all keep citing – George was around then – those don’t count. Let’s see what Cashman does on his own. By the way, if he blows all of these signings because of one excuse or another, I’d like to see all of you Cashman backers call for his head (too late, of course).

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

      “He strikes me as a pencil-necked little beancounter”

      What the hell does that even mean?

      • Thomas

        It means we should hire Rampage Jackson.

        Honestly, I think most GM are “pencil-necked little beancounter[s]”, except Epstien. Epstein clearly is Ben Affleck lite.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          We should fire Cashman and hire Terry Tate, Office Linebacker.

          We’d never ever lose a negotiation again.

          • Jack

            “You kill the Joe, you make some mo’. You know that.”

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              “I don’t have time for pain, baby! The only pain I got time for is the pain I be puttin on fools who don’t know what time it is!”

    • Yank Crank 20

      How exactly is Cashman in way over his head? Like any GM, he had made good deals and bad deals. He has been in the Yankee organization for a while and ha been GM for 10 years. All he’s done since he took over the organization in 2005 was invest good chunks of Yankee money into our draft, stock the farm and try his best to compete with bloated contracts that came from Steinbrenner. If you hate our GM so much as to call him a “pencil-necked little beancounter” than your issues with him far exceed his resume as GM.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      He strikes me as a pencil-necked little beancounter who’s in way over his head.

      You should seriously consider thinking less. Just watch Oprah/MTV/Entertainment Tonight and wait patiently for instructions.

      • jsbrendog (rocks)

        you forgot tmz

    • radnom

      Wow. I literally burst out laughing at the beancounter line, while at work. Thanks.

      • Bo

        You think KO is a Cashman fan???

  • dlcb

    This actually may be a blessing in disguise. Cashman has made it pretty clear that the Yankees aren’t getting both Teixeira and Sabathia. As much as I love CC, Teixeira should be their top target anyway. And $150 million is a lot to invest in a pitcher.

    As for the outfield situation, that situation will take care of itself. You have six players to fill five positions (3 OF, 1B, DH). Between days off and injuries, all six will get significant playing time. It’s better this way than having to rely on a subpar fourth outfielder. And if they do get Tex, Nady opens the season on the bench.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      I disagree. If I can only have one (which is patently false, but whatever), I choose CC. Tex is a great player and all, and great offensive everyday players are super-duper important, but this team needs dominant pitching more, both now and going forward. And, should we miss on Tex, there’s other excellent alternatives in Manny and Dunn, not to mention guys who should be available next year, like Holliday, Crawford, etc… all those players are better Plan B’s than Burnett-Sheets-Lowe-etc. are Plan B’s for not getting CC.

      Legit aces just don’t hit the market in their prime that often. We HAVE TO sign CC, it’s imperative. Nothing else will give us a better chance to be a perennial title contender.

      If my options are, say, CC + Dunn or Tex + Burnett, it’s CC + Dunn by a landslide.

      • Bo

        You can find 1b. You can’t find aces.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          You can find 1b. You can’t find aces.

          Well, no, that’s not exactly true, but at least you’ve got the general theme down.

      • Mike Pop

        Plus just having a top three of CC, Wang, and Joba is great to think about… Plus with a solid guy in Andy and with a guy like Hughes in the five spot, you have to love that rotation.. Could be the best in the league next year..

        • Matt

          Let’s not put Joba in elite starter status just yet…

          • Mike Pop

            Im not, Im just saying the potential of that rotation is sky high

          • radnom

            Regardless, its is definitely safe to say that if you have Joba as your #3 starter, you’ve got a pretty formitable top of the rotation.

      • dlcb

        Some of Cashman’s recent comments imply that he’s not planning on going after both. It may be posturing, but with the way he’s trying to talk up the offense I’m not convinced. And as for CC + Dunn vs Tex + Burnett, CC and Dunn may be better next year. Maybe. But I’m guessing in two or three years CC/Dunn isn’t looking too good. IMO, Dunn’s the type of player whose production will drop off a cliff as he gets older. And both Manny and Dunn are awful defenders. Even moreso than pitching, the Yankees need to improve their defense. Teixeira will help the pitchers and provide elite offense. And there are plenty of talented pitchers in the minors that hopefully should be ready to contribute soon enough. There is not much help coming for positional players.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          Well, since Dunn would probably be looking at a 4 year deal, it’s okay if he starts falling off a cliff after two or three years, likely.

          I’m just saying, 6-7 years of CC + 3-5 years of Free Agent Bat X is better than 7-10 years of Tex + 3-5 years of Burnett, Lowe, Sheets, or Perez.

  • Matt

    With the Angels’ growing interest in signing CC, and the Cubs out of the Peavy sweepstakes….do you think Peavy’s price will come down and the Yanks could send a lesser package to trade for him, and extend him? (ah la Johan)

    • Mike Pop

      Yes but another team could jump in for that “lesser package” Houston for example.. You know JAke would rather go there than here

  • P. Gam

    As I predicted CC is clearly going to the West coast. Why? Because CC hates the Yankees like all good people should. Why? Because the Yankees are evil. EVIL!

    On to our top story of the day – The Red Socks have begun the process which will obviously lead to a long term contract with catching god Jason Veritek (All star and clearly the best catcher in baseball). This year Veritek hit the best .220/.313/.359 I have ever seen. I love Jason. Theo is the smartest most powerful man alive. I have to go to the bathroom.

    • http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)

      this post definitely started slowly but finished strong.

  • mustang

    I think the Angles are playing it real smart as much as they need Tex you NEVER pass on an ace left-handed starter of CC talent. They can always try and figure out a way to make up for Tex, but how many CC types are running around?
    The point made about the Angles not signing CC because they are going to pay Lackey big money is weak at best. Next year is next year and who would they rather have CC or Lackey.

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  • mustang

    I don’t think the Angles have to match the Yankees dollar for dollar all they have to do is come close. The Angles are in the west coast, have a good team in a weak division, with a lot less press and fan pressure and if the money is in the same ballpark I don’t know why CC would turn it down.

    • ceciguante

      that’s certainly the signal that CC has been giving, but i hope it doesn’t come to pass.

      the yanks might have to go $15-20M over the angels to get it done, which is a lotta beans to give to a pitcher.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      The “Angles”… heh heh.

      “Hey, that’s great… but who are the Chefs?”

  • Chris R.

    This is clearly a smokescreen for Tex. They will basically trade CC for Lackey who is a FA next year. He will want the CC deal too. No way a team (Other than the Yankees) can have 2 $140 mil pitchers on staff.

  • christopher

    i think people are panicking a little too much. the yankees made an initital offfer of 140 hoping it would scare teams away and it has to some extent done that – brwers,l dodgers (manny) and th emets who cant pay another pitcher more than Santanat.

    Did everyoe think that no other team would up the offer. Fromwhat I saw mlbtr i think, the angels are offering 7 – not 6 years offerd to santana, the yankees desperatly want his guys an di think they will go 7/175.

    that may not seem like a big difference to guys like us but it is to the plauer and the agent.

    on a side note, CC is apparently best freinds with David Riske. I know he sucks but any advatage we can get is a benenfit. just ikkeing about that

    Finally, I cant stand the brewers GM – cant plac his name. We give his team so much mony that they are able to contend and he has the gaul to bach the yankees for overpaying for cc. what a joke.

    cashman has a planand i think it is CC, Lowe(if AJ isnt available) and Adam Dunn. then there is the question of what to do with petitte. Do we brinng him back or are there other alteratives – would RJ, Giamnbi (yes i said it)Gapler, Ramon Vazques (a better utility guy coming off last year than betemit) and Brad Penny (a possible great reclamationj pitcher. With the money they save from not bringing back petittte you could get or or two of these gus – dependng on the levek of player you are lloking for.

    point is forget petitte, your rotation is CC, Burnett, Lowe, and Hughe/Aceves/Penny

    Offensive doesnt need a long term free agent – remeber there are a lot of great firstbaseman who are young and will hit the Free agent market in the next few years.

    Too bad Milton Bradley could stay healthy – I would love to see him play a full season

  • christopher

    please excuse the spelling – a little hung over