Does Dye make sense for right field?

Wednesday Night Hot Stove Open Thread
He's o-Kei in AAA

Jamal G. sent this to me tonight, and I thought I’d run it tonight/this morning. The over/under on the number of comments that say “We don’t need another aging outfielder” is 50.

According to MLBTR (via the Chicago Tribune), Kenny Williams and his underlings are scouring the Arizona Fall League for a potential Jermaine Dye trade. I was wondering, would Dye make sense for our beloved Bombers?

Dye, in some aspects, had a career season in 2008. His 34 HR’s was the second highest in any of his fourteen Major League seasons (44, 2006); the 154 games he played this season was the first in which he amassed 150+ games played since his 2001 split-season with the Kansas City Royals and Oakland Athletics (158); his 77 XBH’s are the second highest of any single-season in his career (79, 1999); the .541 SLG% he posted was the third highest of his fourteen seasons (.622 in 2006 and .561 in 2000); his .249 ISO was trumped only by the .306 ISO he achieved in 2006; and the 17.5 K% he amassed was bested only by the 16.5% mark he posted in 2000 with the aforementioned Royals. So, in his age-34 season, Jermaine Dye had one of his top three or four seasons in the Major Leagues.

Tim Dierkes mentioned that the ChiSox were scouting two of the New York Mets’ top relief prospects: Bobby Parnell and Eddie Kunz. I’m fairly certain that Williams would not accept a package centered around cost-controlled relievers, but if that is indeed a starting point, this bodes well for the Yankees. Also, Dye’s contract situation is favorable for a player of his age and current production. With only one guaranteed year left on his deal ($11.5M in 2009), the team that potentially acquires him need not worry of employing Jermaine Dye when he is a shell of his former self. Lastly, even though his contract states he can block deals to six squads as part of a limited NTC, guaranteeing Dye’s 2010 option for $12M would not be a significant deterrent since he produced at such a high level in 2008 (if that is indeed what it would take for Dye to accept a trade to 161st St. and River Ave.).

Playing time would be tricky, but seeing as how *Hideki Matsui – and his surgically repaired knees – would bear the blunt of the loss of playing time, I don’t think this is much of a deterrent to acquiring Dye either. You could slot Dye into Right Field where his -17 rating in Bill James’ Plus/Minus system of ranking fielders would actually be an improvement over Bobby Abreu (-24). With Dye in RF, Xavier Nady can take root at First Base where he has played 82 games in his Major League career.

So, do you think this make sense for the New York Yankees? What kind of package could Brian Cashman & Co. put together that would be considered “fair value”? Outside of the vague notion that Williams & Co. want to get a “younger and quicker team for the future”, what do you see Williams trying to acquire in a deal for his slugging, aging Right Fielder?

*- I feel that Juan Miranda should get some serious playing time at DH this season so the Yankees can evaluate whether he can be a productive Major League slugger going forth. With Jason Giambi and Bobby Abreu potentially departing, this teams needs a new source of on-base and slugging skills. Miranda needs to be evaluated at the Major League level; he could serve as the RH portion of a RH/LH platoon with Hideki Matsui at the DH spot.

Thanks, Jamal

Wednesday Night Hot Stove Open Thread
He's o-Kei in AAA
  • C.Panella

    NO dye makes 0 sense he getting up there in age and will require a decent return just relax and let nady play he can put up good enough numbers to hold his own this year not to mention this is a contract year so he will be giving his all for another contract cmon guys relax nady can handle this

    • Jamal G.

      This is more about the production of Jermaine Dye and Xavier Nady in RF and 1B, respectively, than it is Dye over Nady in RF. I’m pretty sure a tandem of Dye (RF) and Nady (1B) would outproduce any other tandem that has Nady in RF and a player not named Mark Teixeira at First Base.

  • Ben K.

    We don’t need another aging outfielder.


    • JeffG

      How much do you have riding on the over?

  • Ivan

    I rather the yanks go after Hermida.

    Dye is the type of player the yanks need to avoid and has gotten them in trouble over the years. Old, expensive and declining player.

    • Jamal G.

      True, but when you consider the fact that he has produced at such a level in his age-34 season, he would cost less in terms of talent that would have to be given up in a potential trade, and he his signed for only one guaranteed year, the “Old, expensive and declining player” notion becomes less of a deterrent, wouldn’t you say?

      • Ivan

        I’ll take away expensive then mainly cuz of the years of the contract which is one guaranteed year.

        I don’t know, his offense is better than Nady obviously, but his D has been slipping alot and while he defends better than Abreu it doesn’t really say much.

        It depends on what you have to give up. If the propose trade reasonable, then maybe I guess.

        • Jamal G.

          Yeah, I’m not saying it’s a no-brainer, I’m just saying that it is a viable option that people should consider. If you get past the fact that he will be 35-years-old at the start of Spring Training, you (I mean generally, not you specifically, Ivan) will realize that Jermaine Dye would be a pretty good acquisition.

          He should cost lest in terms of talent in comparison to a potential deal for Jeremy Hermida. Also, he would help replenish some – if not all – of the power lost by Jason Giambi’s departure from the lineup.

          • Jay CT

            I say you just give the biggest offer to Tex. It seems to make the most sense for many reasons, and as a Scott Boras kid, I would think that all that matters is the most dollars offered. If they just take the approach of outspending the next closest, don’t you think they get him?

            Side note though, I personally really like Dye on a 1 year deal, or even if you have to pick up his option. He hasn’t really shown that he will slow down just because he is 34- outside of a bad first half when he was battling a few injuries in 2007 I believe.

  • Seymour

    Cashman has been quoted as saying he wants a real 1b to play 1b.

    • JeffG


  • E-ROC

    I don’t know. Maybe. What about Nick Swisher or Jeremy Hermida? I would rather get younger even though Dye is still productive at his current age.

    • Jay CT

      I must be the only one who doesn’t like Swisher. I do not see what he does really well that would help the team, outside of his position flexability and his BB. I think his power is a bit overblown. Seemed last year Ozzie used him all over the lineup and could never find the right spot for him. I don’t know, just doesn’t seem like a huge upgrade; I would rather give one of the kids a shot for what he would cost too.

  • ortforshort

    Is this what it has come to for the Yankees? A schlock team with Miranda, Nady, Swisher as candidates for key corner spots or, possibly, another aging outfielder in Dye or a too young outfielder in Hermida playing key roles? Unfortunately, you’re not going to win too many titles with this group at the core.

    • Jamal G.
    • steve (different one)

      Is this what it has come to for the Yankees? A schlock team with Miranda, Nady, Swisher as candidates for key corner spots or, possibly, another aging outfielder in Dye or a too young outfielder in Hermida playing key roles?

      has it come to this?

      or are we just a bunch of people on the internet throwing ideas against a wall?

      i guess i missed it when the 2009 season started with Miranda and Swisher in the lineup.

  • Mike A.

    The Yanks don’t need another aging outfielder.


  • Bill

    I could see a three way. Damon to CWS, Dye to a team that needs a RF, Swisher + prospects to NYY, prospects to the CWS from the team that gets Dye. NYY sends cash to whoever needs it.

    CWS outfield: LF Damon, CF Anderson/Owens/Rameriz, RF Quienten.

    The yankees then make a trade with FLA to get Hermidia.
    NYY Outfield: LF Nady, CF Gardner, RF Hermidia, 1B Swisher.

    Not sure what Hermidia would cost though.

    • JeffG

      Insane… almost like putting two rookies in the rotation to start the season.

      Although I like the idea of Hermidia if we got him I don’t think you automatically plug him into the line up especially with Gardner who is not really guaranteed to hit any better than Melky did last year.

      Jonny D to boot? I’m not sure if you noticed but he did a pretty good job in the leadoff spot last year.

    • Andy In Sunny Daytona

      I like this move, it could guarantee us no worse than a fifth place postion every year. Between those four they would aproach 550 strikeouts and a solid .260 average. But the grit factor? Off the charts…

  • brockdc

    This makes sense only if Chicago’s is willing to take a middling prospect in return. I’m sure Williams is looking for more than that, though. Pass.

  • Jamal G.

    …another aging outfielder in Dye [born in 1974] or a too young outfielder in Hermida [born in 1984] playing key roles?

    So the Yankees should only acquire players who were born between 1975 and 1983?

    • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      Man: Now, what do I win?
      Navin: Anything in this general area right in here.
      Anything below the stereo and on this side of the bicentennial glasses.
      Anything between the ashtrays and the thimble.
      Anything in this three inches right in here, in this area.
      That includes the Chiclets, but not the erasers.

  • Bill

    R SS Jeter
    L RF Hermedia
    R 3B A-Rod
    L LF Matsui
    S -C Posada
    R Nady
    L Cano
    S Swisher
    L Gardner

    • Steve

      The only way A-Rod ever bats 3rd is if Albert Pujols is on the team.

  • Pablo Zevallos

    I’d just keep Abreu for that matter.

    • Steve

      You’ll have to give him 3 years, which is asking for trouble.

  • whozat

    “Miranda needs to be evaluated at the Major League level; he could serve as the RH portion of a RH/LH platoon with Hideki Matsui at the DH spot.”

    Miranda is lefty and suuuuuucks against lefties. Would you play Miranda against RHP and Matsui against LHP?

    • Jamal G.

      Sory, that’s obviously a typo. I meant to say: he could serve as part of a platoon with Hideki Matsui at the DH spot against RHP and LHP, respectively.”

      Would you play Miranda against RHP and Matsui against LHP?

      Yes, I would. Hideki Matsui has a career line in the Majors of .295/.359/.443 against southpaw pitching, and Juan Miranda hit .329/.438/.532 this season in the Minor Leagues against right-handed hurlers.

      • Lanny

        Miranda should have to force his way onto the roster like everyone thru performance at AAA.

        • whozat

          Like by hitting .287/.384/.449 in 350 ABs at AAA?

          • steve (different one)

            is that supposed to be impressive for a 25 year old who can’t field?

            you are one of the smartest guys who post here, so i have to ask you what you think the MLE is for that line?

            i’d like to see Miranda get some ABs too, but i don’t think he has “forced” anything yet.

            • Jay CT

              I agree with your analysis. I don’t think it makes sense to spend all this money that they will be spending and then use a kid who hasn’t proven that he should be counted on.

        • Jamal G.

          That vital line is what he posted in his 2008 stay at Triple-A Scranton (The Office!!). Overall, he posted a vital line of .287/.384/.449. Also, his 13.6 BB% was the third highest of any hitter in the International League. He has earned his way onto the 25-man roster.

          • Lanny

            So maybe they’ll give him a shot. They obviously have major doubts hes a regular 1b if they are entertaining the notion of Tex.

            • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              They obviously have major doubts hes a regular 1b if they are entertaining the notion of Tex.

              Or maybe they’re just really confident that Mark Teixeira is a really, really good 1B.

              I know I am.

  • Lanny

    I don’t think they should be worried about “playing time” right now.

    Just collect the most talent you can. No one plays 160 games.

    I don’t think you can pencil in “Matsui DH 162”

    Obv you don’t bring in 15 mill guys like Dye to be 4th Of’ers but maybe Swisher for the bench.

    • Pablo Zevallos

      Swisher is better than the bench

      • Lanny

        He would 500 at bats if he was on this team playing RF,LF,1b, and DH.

        It wouldn’t kill to focus on the bench and get deep.

        • steve (different one)

          this is actually a pretty good idea.

  • Double-J

    The only aging outfielder I want coming to the Yankees is Manny Ramirez.

    • andrew

      or bonds!!
      but yes, as somebody posted before, why trade prospects for dye when we could resign abreu… abreu isnt nearly as good as dye, but hes close

      • Reggie C.

        No. Dye is still an elite power producer . Abreu hasn’t been that … ever really.

    • Spaceman.Spiff

      Yeah, if we’re gonna trade for Dye, why don’t we instead see if we can get Manny to agree to a 3 year deal with a team option for year 4 maybe. Manny would add a whole lot more to the lineup than Dye would protecting A-Rod like he’s never been before, he’d be pretty motivated for at least a season or two just because he’d want to stick it to the Red Sox and because he’d be playing back where he went to high school.

      I’d actually rather have Tex but I’d rather have Manny than Dye.

      Tex > Manny > Dye > Abreu

      • Rob

        I couldn’t agree more, but I say why not Tex AND Manny? Sign Tex for 6 years (120 mil) and Manny for three (75 mil).

        Pitching you might say?

        CC for 6/130 mil and Pettitte for 1/13mil.

        Add that up?

        20 + 25 + 21 + 13 = 79 plus 4 for Marte = 83 million and right about where they were in 2008. Add in the arb cases and maybe they’re a bit higher than 2008 but they can easily afford it with the new digs.

        Bottom line: If they aren’t cutting prices, I’d rather they spend the cash than have it go to the Steinbrothers and Company.

        • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones


  • JeffG

    Age aside, the corner outfield spots are set and I think for the best. Putting Nady at first when he really doesn’t want to play there doesn’t greatly improve our defense nor does Dye. Production needs to be accomplished at first. If the outfield were to be improved I’d rather we find another CF but I realize that is tricky seeing there are not FAs that could fill the position.
    Ultimately I think we just need to fix the rotation and pick up Texiera and we should be set. I expect a better year out of ARod, Jeter, Cano, Matsui, Posada… there is a lot of production right there.

    • Rob

      Should be set with an OF of Damon, Gardner, and Nady? Sorry, but that could easily be below average offense at every position. Even if the rotation improves some, that’s not the OF of a championship club (and might score fewer runs than even 2008). Given Jackson’s struggles at hitting for power (including the AFL where Eric Duncan! hit for power), there’s nothing in the system to suggest a big bat is on the way.

      Sign Manny. His defense will be no worse than Abreu but his offense will be significantly better. Then they also have flexibility when the inevitable Damon/Matsui injury hits.

      • Chip

        Yeah, we might be below average offensively in the outfield but our infield would showcase two of the best hitters in the league plus one of the top 3 offensive catchers. I can live with that if the outfield guys can still get on base

  • Manimal

    Remember we were going to trade him straight up for Abreu

  • Steve

    Typical Whelan outing last night
    1 IP 0 R 3 BB 1 SO

    Messy but OK Brackman outing
    Brackman 5.0 IP 4 H 2 R 2 ER 5 BB 3 SO 2 HR 5.56 ERA

  • Steve

    Somebody posted a bad Kennedy outing last night, but I cant find anything.

    Plus, he pitched FOUR days ago, so it wouldn’t have been his turn.

  • Accent Shallow

    Check out his BBRef page (linked under my name). He’s not an awful option, but I don’t see why the Yankees should replace Abreu with someone who has a similar weakness (horrendous defense), but not the same strength (Dye doesn’t walk enough to be a productive player unless he’s hitting well). Sure, Dye hits for more power, but not significantly.

    I’d look into it, but I’d definitely prefer Swisher, even if the cost may be Damon. I might prefer three more years of Bobby here.

  • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

    I would rather put Nady there to make room for Manny in left. Dye is not a player that I want on this team at all. There is no real upside like there is with Manny, and the downside has already shown itself.

  • Hank (no not that one)

    We don’t need another aging outfielder

    just doing my part to get you to 50

  • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

    We only need outfielders who are getting younger.

  • Joseph P.

    I think what a lot of people are overlooking here is the length of commitment. I actually disagree with Jamal in that the second year wouldn’t be a problem. The only reason Dye is attractive is because of the short commitment. The team wants to get younger, but they want to win. This means bringing in short-term vets while trying to develop and trade for younger talent (among other strategies, of course, like signing CC and Tex).

    • Reggie C.


      Who would you opt for: Dye or Hermida? Dye’s got 1 guaranteed year + 1 option year. Hermida is entering his physical prime, a former top hitting prospect, but obviously very unproven production.

      At the cost of a couple young arms, a healthy Dye + teixeira gives the Yank offense some major punch in ’09 and ’10. Its a short term offensive windfall , but one that would help us win a WS in the last years of DJ and Posada’s respective contracts.

      • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        And yet, while Hermida doesn’t have the pop that Dye does, he may be a better OBP guy, and is certainly better at working the count. I don’t think that Dye is heads and shoulders better than Hermida offensively, just a little bit better, and as we’ve noted, Dye is probably declining while Hermida is possibly ascending.

        I guess it all comes down to the price: What would it really take to get one over the other? If the price difference between the two is someone in the Veras-Cox-Suttle-Sublett stratosphere, I’d rather pay that one extra prospect and get Hermida, because while he may never get any better and never approach the production levels of a Dye, he could help stabilize our outfield situation for the next 4-6 years as opposed to the next 1-2. If Hermida is significantly more expensive, though, and Dye is cheap, I’d do Dye.

      • Joseph P.

        I’d go for Hermida. He helps the Yankees immediately with their long-term plan. It doesn’t appear he’s on the front of the trade block, though, which is why I think Dye makes sense.

  • Steve S

    I think the problem with Dye is that he leaves the Yankees extremely vulnerable after this year. Its nice have roster flexibility but I think you need to worry about filling holes sometimes. Right now the Yankees have a glaring hole in center and first base for next year. Long term (Depending on AJAX) they have a hole at first base and corner outfielder. If you get a guy like Dye who offers that flexibility, how much of a problem are you creating for 2010? Nady will be a free agent, Damon will be a free agent, Dye will be a free agent and Mastui will be a free agent, plus you have the concern over first base now as well. If AJAX has any set backs (knock on wood) now you go into the offseason without any outfielders. Thats just not good planning. If you are able to get a guy like Texeira, Hermida or Swisher, you at least answer some of those questions for next year as well as in the future. Hermida and Swisher offer you more flexibility than Texeira both because Swisher can play any outfield position and first and both are going to be relatively cheap and cost controlled.

    Corner outfidlers I can only think of two Holliday and maybe Crawford (I think Tampa has options). I know there are more but those are the only two premium names that pop into my head.

    • Reggie C.

      You don’t think Gardner deserves some 500 at-bats to show if he can produce like a solid (average) major leaguer? If Melky can steal over 400 at-bats last season, then Gardner should be given at least 400 this season.

      I like Dye, but yea you have struck a major point. There are future holes on this ball club that reasonably can’t be addressed all at once. As much as Dye is still very productive and really an offensive upgrade over Abreu, Dye has 2 seasons tops under contract.

      I think the Yanks should look to pick up a young player entering his prime. Hermida represents a buy-low, high-ceiling type that Cashman should seriously entertain as a long-term fix to the corner OF spot.

      • Steve S

        Im more than willing to give Gardner a shot. But does it look much better to go into the 2010 offseason with Gardner being your only holdover. Garnder is on an especially short leash because you have a team with a lot of offensive holes. They are coming off a year where they failed to score 800 runs. And I don’t want to stir the hornets nest but in Melky’s defense, in his first year with the team he managed to be almost league average (95 OPS+) and put up a .360 OBP, which is pretty decent. Especially considering he was playing on a team that was scoring between 850-960 runs per year. Its not really fair to Brett but thats the current status of the team and thats why Melky got demoted this year.

        • dan l

          Melky got demoted because the league caught up to him and he couldn’t adjust.

          • Ben K.

            I’m not sure “caught up” really does what happened with Melky justice. He’s never been even an average player. He’s put up OPS+ of 95, 89 and 68. It was more like reality caught up to the Yankee front office that their centerfielder was terrible.

            • Steve S

              And there is the hornets nest.

  • Jorge Steinbrenner

    Next on RAB: Chad Curtis is sitting at home with nothing to do. Does he make sense in RF?

    No aging quick fixes on this team. Continue to build that next dynasty and don’t just plug a hole in 2009 because it has to be filled.

    I still like that Hermidia idea as well.

    • steve (different one)

      Continue to build that next dynasty and don’t just plug a hole in 2009 because it has to be filled.

      how does this make any sense?

      sometimes you have to compromise and take the 1 year fix.

      yes, it would be great to find the next long term solution in RF right now, but sometimes you have to take what the market is giving you.

      i don’t know if i would go for Dye, but you can’t have hard and fast rules either. sometimes you need to plug a hole.

      there is nothing wrong with that.

      • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        I think it’s high time we had a meaningful discussion with Yankee fans about the differences between philosophies, strategies, and tactics.

      • A.D.

        Agreed… some quick fix? They aren’t advocating mortgaging the farm for 1 year of Dye, more trying to build a package with relievers, mainly because the Yankees have more than they know what to do with.

        Sure they could probably pay more for Hermida, and yes he’s younger, he also will put up worse numbers next year, and there’s no saying that he will actually change from his current production.

    • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

      Love the name lol “Jorge Steinbrenner” lol

  • Axl

    No thanks on Dye. We’re getting rid of Abreu for somebody the same age…

    Nah. Pointless.

    Abreu has a better eye, better speed, etc.

    I understand Dye is still under contract but it doesn’t matter…

    Why can’t we try going for somebody else…or maybe just start drafting better position players!!!

    • tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      Why can’t we try going for somebody else…or maybe just start drafting better position players!!!

      We can try going for somebody else. The question is, if everybody else just had a price hike but Dye just went on sale, wouldn’t it make sense to buy a cheap Dye instead of an expensive Ankiel/Holliday/______?

      And yes, we can start drafting better position players, but if Dye is low-hanging fruit, doesn’t adding a short-term fix like that make developing our young talent easier, since they won’t be rushed but also won’t be blocked?

    • A.D.

      Drafting more or “better” position players has nothing to do with getting Dye, or any Yankees team in the near future

  • radnom

    “Miranda needs to be evaluated at the Major League level; he could serve as the RH portion of a RH/LH platoon with Hideki Matsui at the DH spot.”


    Seriously, now?

    A straight up platoon with two left handers, making the better hitter hit much less often?

  • dan l

    Dye should be nothing more then a trade deadline deal if needed. He is the kind of player that could be picked up if the Yankees keep some financial flexibility going forward.

  • Erik

    Bunch of goddam arm-chair GMs.

    No to Swisher, unless he be riding the bench.

    No to Dye in RF, unless he’s applying for a ground’s keeper position.

    And no, you idiots, the Marlins won’t send Hermidiafor Melky, Kennedy and Edwar.

    Just sit back and watch Cashman do his job.

    • steve (different one)

      you might want to switch to decaf.

    • Stryker

      someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed, didn’t he?

    • Chip

      Did he just complain about armchair GMs and then offer his own thoughts on the trade proposals? How ironic…..

  • Baseballnation

    I don’t understand all the detractions on Dye. Some of you guys automatically assume that Tex will sign…And what if he doesn’t? the only other guy I can see the yankees bringing in free agency that is the kind of impact bat they need is Ramirez and that’s not to intriguing considering he’ll go for 4/100 mil, and while Hermida is nice to have for the future, he’s nowhere near a sure thing to become the impact kind of player the yankees need. Jermaine Dye for year= Filled offensive gap + Security for A-rod + 2 1st round draft picks when he walks next year. Bite on that brethrens

  • A.D.

    Really Dye depends on his actual cost, given they’re scouting the mets, if they’re looking for a Heilmann + Relief Prospect + Some throw in, which could make sense since the mets don’t appear to have much other high end MLB ready talent that they would actually part with, then our equivalent to this doesn’t seem so bad, we have more relievers than we know what to do with & you’ll get picks for Dye in 2010.

    Basically for the Yankees its try and get Tex, if that fails you look into Dye or young OF that allows Nady to move to first, or a platoon mate/defensive 1B to pair with Miranda

    • Chip

      You get draft picks for Dye IF he doesn’t accept arbitration. If he has a down year, he might not be looking at a multiyear deal or a deal where he could make more money.

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