Nov
20

Mike Mussina is a Hall of Famer

By

Or: Wins are a really stupid metric for evaluating anything

This post comes from RAB commenter tommiesmithjohncarlos.

I was thinking about this again this morning, so I did some quick research on Baseball-Reference.com. Enjoy the following narrative, brought to you by The Committee to Induct Michael Cole Mussina into the Hall of Fame.

#1: June 22, 1992

Mike pitches 8.0 innings, giving up 5 hits, 1 walk, and 2 runs, strikes out 7, and is replaced after the 8th with a 4-2 lead. In the top of the 9th, Orioles reliever Mike Flanagan gives up a single to Mel Hall and is then pulled for Orioles closer Gregg Olson, who gives up a game tying home run to the first batter he faces, Roberto Kelly. In the bottom of the 9th, the Yankees bullpen gives up a run and the Orioles win, 5-4. Moose gets the ND.

#2: August 15, 1992

Mike pitches 7.2 innings, giving up 9 hits, 3 walks, and 3 runs, strikes out 5, and is pulled during the 8th with a 4-3 lead. In the bottom of the 9th, Orioles closer Gregg Olson gives up a single, a walk, a bunt groundout, a single, and a sac fly and the Royals win 5-4. Moose gets the ND.

#3: August 17, 1995

Mike pitches 8.0 innings, giving up 6 hits, no walks, and 2 runs, both unearned (on a dropped flyball by Bobby Bonilla in the second inning that would have been out #3), strikes out 8, and is replaced after the 8th with the game tied at 2. In the top of the 10th, Orioles reliever Jesse Orosco gives up a leadoff homer to Gary Gaetti in his second inning of work and the Royals go on to win, 3-2. Moose gets the ND.

#4: September 28, 1996

Mike pitches 8.0 innings, giving up 4 hits, 2 walks, and 1 run, strikes out 9, and is replaced after the 8th with a 2-1 lead. In the bottom of the 9th, Orioles closer Armando Benitez gives up a one-out home run to Ed Sprague to tie the ballgame. In the top of the 10th, Roberto Alomar hits a home run of his own to retake the lead and the Orioles go on to win, 3-2. Moose gets the ND.

#5: July 7, 2001

Mike pitches 7.0 innings, giving up 6 hits, 1 walk, and no runs, strikes out 10, and is replaced after the 7th with the game still a scoreless tie. After two more scoreless innings from Jay Witasick, in the top of the 10th, Yankees reliever Mariano Rivera has one of his rare implosions and gives up a walk sandwiched around 4 line-drive singles, all with two outs, to score 3 runs and the Mets go on to win, 3-0. Moose gets the ND.

#6: July 17, 2001

Mike pitches 7.0 innings, giving up 8 hits, 3 walks, and 1 run, strikes out 3, and is lifted for a pinch hitter in the top of the 8th with the game tied at 1. Much later, in the top of the 12th with the game still knotted at 1, Phillies reliever Wayne Gomes gives singles to Jeter and Tino and a homer to Jorge and the Yankees go on to win, 4-1. Moose gets the ND.

#7: August 12, 2001

Mike pitches 8.0 innings, giving up 2 hits, no walks, and 2 runs, strikes out 9, and is replaced after the 8th with the game tied at 2. In the bottom of the 9th, Yankees reliever Mike Stanton walks Johnny Damon and, one batter later, gives up a two-run homer to Jason Giambi. The A’s win, 4-2. Moose gets the ND.

#8: September 19, 2002

Mike pitches 7.0 innings, giving up 5 hits, 2 walks, and 1 unearned run (on a first inning error by centerfielder Raul Mondesi), strikes out 8, and is replaced after the 7th with a 2-1 lead. In the bottom of the 8th, Yankees reliever Steve Karsay gives up a game-tying homer to the first batter he faces, Randy Winn. Two innings later, Yankees reliever Sterling Hitchcock gives up a single, a double, an intentional walk, and then a single and the Devil Rays win it, 3-2. Moose gets the ND.

Had Moose had a slightly better collection of relievers (or fewer defensively challenged outfielders) over the years, and had the 2001 Yankees not been utterly shut down by Mets “ace” Kevin Appier in that 7/7/01 game, etc., Moose could have won these 8 contests, since he pitched damn well in all of them. What’s the significance of these eight games, you ask? Well, if we use our magical time machine to alter these games and give Moose the victories instead of the no-decisions, not only would Mike’s career record now be 278-153, he’d now have SIX, COUNT ‘EM, SIX twenty-win seasons:

1992: 20-5

1995: 20-9

1996: 20-11

2001: 20-11

2002: 20-10

2008: 20-9

…which means none of us would be having this conversation about “Is Moose a Hall of Famer”? Bill Plaschke, Jon Heyman, Jay Mariotti, Wallace Matthews, George King III, Joel Sherman, and even Mike Lupica himself would be singing Moose’s praises from the mountaintops and viciously excoriating anyone who dared question the credentials of an absolute stud ace who won 20 games an unbelievable six times.

(And don’t forget that Moose went 16-5 during the strike-shortened 1994 season, where he was robbed of probably 10-12 potential starts. Do your own math on that one.)

So please, people. Seriously. We can’t allow media idiots to keep Mike Mussina out of the Hall of Fame because of a few bad games from Gregg Olson, Armando Benitez, Bobby Bonilla, Raul Mondesi, Steve Karsay, Mike Stanton and one good game from Kevin Appier. That’s insanity.

Categories : Analysis
  • Jake K.

    Great work! But reading centerfielder Raul Mondesi gave me shivers.

  • radnom

    Eh, I’m sure I could go to each of those seasons and pull up games where Mike should not have had any buisness picking up the win.
    But that just further shows how useless of a stat it is.

    Besides, how is 20 any more significant than 19, or 21?

    Wins become slightly more meaningful over an entire career, when the lucky/unluckty games tend to average themselves out.
    It is still too dependant on the offense of the team the pitcher is on to significantly compare across guys.

    • ceciguante

      completely agreed, radnom.

      lame post all around.

  • r.w.g.

    terrific post. the ‘debate’ over his HOF worthiness is a joke.

    • radnom

      No.
      Using the fact that he only has one 20 win season as a valid reason behind thinking he should get in is a joke.
      The debate is not a joke.

      I think he should be in but I could respect someone who doesn’t, as long as they have valid reasons to back it up.

      • r.w.g.

        I disagree with you, I suppose. I just don’t really see any valid arguments for keeping him out of the Hall.

        • radnom

          Listen I think he should be in as well but its delusional to say he is a slam dunk candidate.
          If he had retired this previous year would you feel the same way?

          • r.w.g.

            Yeah, I did feel that way. I felt he was Hall of Fame material before he signed his 2-year extension with the Yanks.

            However, I will admit that I believed myself to be in the minority with that opinion at the time. I mean, take his 20 wins out this year and the guy still has 250 wins.. he was dynamite.

            Growing up in NJ, the only teams I really saw on TV were the Yanks, Mets, and Braves, and whoever they were playing. And I just remember Moose making team after team not just look bad, but baffled. I chalked up his 2007 to just a 38 year old pitcher nearing the end of the line.

  • Manimal

    interesting. he is still a hall of famer.

  • Ed

    Clearly you have provided indisputable proof why Joba should go into the bullpen. If Joba been put in the bullpen at the age of 6 1/2 instead of waiting until last season, he wouldn’t have had to waste all those years of his life building up arm strength and instead could have been helping Mike Mussina toward 6 20 win seasons and a Hall of Fame career. Instead, Mussina a complete loser who doesn’t deserve to have his name mentioned in any discussion of the Hall.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      I like what you did there. I’m convinced.

      JOBA TO THE PEN!!!

    • Rich

      This guy is from baltimore still bitter

  • Rafi

    Who was it who said earlier in the year(before Moose won 20) that you’d basically be saying that Moose is a HOFer or not because of Armando Benitez? I remember seeing the quote, but can’t remember who said it.

  • Brian

    wow. no wonder moose had some finely-tuned sarcasm. nice post.

  • A.D.

    Solid post, the issue is that as one commenter pointed out, he’s probably won games he didn’t deserve, and secondly if you do that for everyone in the HOF, and those that haven’t made it, maybe the mystery plateau becomes 25 win seasons.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      How do you define a game as one he “didn’t deserve to win”? I’m just curious, not trying to pick a fight yet.

      • http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)

        going 5 innings and leaving with a 12-8 lead?

        i think it’s a valid comment.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          Oh, it’s a valid comment. I had an ulterior motive.

          In 12 games, Moose won despite allowing five earned runs or more. He won another 22 in which he allowed four earned runs over any amount of innings.

          Comparatively, in 54 games, Mussina allowed two or fewer runs while pitching five or more innings and didn’t get a decision. Yes, it happens to any pitcher, but it seems to me that the number of games he should have won but didn’t far outweighs the number he won but shouldn’t have.

          • radnom

            Unfortunately, for wins at least, there is too much else which is a factor…such as you’re own teams offense as well as bullpen.

            Which was it….was Baltimore’s bullpen that bad in the 90’s? Or was he just insanely unlucky in NY.

      • radnom

        5 innings – 5 runs

        The other picther was just awful, so he gets the win.

        Something like that.

        A lot of stats are susceptable to that.

        Hits for example:

        You can get robbed by an amazing play on a ball that should have been a hit.
        Or
        You can get lucky and the feilder takes his eye off the ball and it drops in or its dribbled in just the right spot.

        The point is not that each individual hit or win matter but it is supposed to be that over a long enough period of time (a season or a career perhaps) that the luck factor is statistically insignificant.

        Unfortunately, for wins at least, there is too much else which is a factor…such as you’re own teams offense as well as bullpen.

      • Ed

        Andy Pettitte’s final game of 2007 is a great example:

        5 IP, 9 R, 8 ER, 8 H, 3 BB, and a win

        • radnom

          I think thats an extreme example. That happens way less often then 2R/7in/ND.
          ~5 runs in 5-6innings is more common.

          • Ed

            The fact that it’s so extreme is why it stood out in my memory. Just pointing it out because it was a clear example I could find easily and I felt confident no one would argue against it.

            • radnom

              Ah gotcha, but it doesn’t really help my the “well you could name just as many times he got lucky as unlucky argument”.
              Which Ben took the time to look up and disprove anyway.

      • A.D.

        Basically what steve & random said if he “deserves” to win a game he leaves tied, obviously a great start and all, but then there will be some games he “deserved” to loose where 5 or 6 innings 5 ER and a W

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.
          • A.D.

            Yeah I saw, I actually flipped through the past few seasons checking the lines, and he really doesn’t have too many “undeserved” wins. But was mainly pointing out if you’re going to give out wins.

            I think a metric to look at is his .638 winning % which is better (or equal) than Smoltz, Maddux, Glavine, Eckersley, Niekro, Seaver, Palmer, and Schilling just to name a few.

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

              But you can’t evaluate his winning percentage without comparing it to the overall winning percentage of the teams for which he pitches. Wins are not a very good measure of a pitcher’s overall worth.

              • Ed

                I think your earlier post did a good job in showing that if anything, a good pitcher will get significantly less wins than he deserves, which would make a good winning percentage more impressive.

              • A.D.

                True but were talking about a winning % that for a baseball team would be equivalent to 103 wins every year… that’s pretty damn impressive.

  • http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)

    i happen to think Moose will get in.

    i think over the last year people have finally started to appreciate him. he opened a lot of eyes by winning 20 games this year with an 87 MPH fastball.

    it made people realize how smart a pitcher he is, how good his breaking stuff is, and how awesome his command is.

    also, it allowed them to grasp the narrative that if Moose pitched his whole career in the steroid testing era, he’d have many more wins and better ERA.

    there has been a groundswell of support recently and i think he will get in after waiting on the ballot for a few years.

  • Reggie C.

    That’s the post of the year.

  • Ed

    For a more serious post, he’s a little exercise someone inadvertently got me started on today. Take a look at the career stats of Clemens, Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine, Pedro, Johnson, and Mussina. Ignore the win totals.

    There’s two players in that group that really stand out from the others. Pedro’s numbers blow away the rest – career ERA of 2.91, WHIP of 1.05 – but in way less innings than the rest of them. And then there’s Glavine, who’s stats don’t look nearly as good as the rest, including a 1.31 WHIP.

    Anyway, I think if you leave anyone of that group out of the hall, it’s got to be Glavine. If you ignore the win total, he just doesn’t stack up with the rest of them.

    • http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)

      i happen to agree.

      the voters will not, though.

    • christopher

      moose was a better pitcher than glavine. put galvine in the AL and his stats arent anywhere near any of those guys or even moose.

      pedro and clemens IMO stand out above all others in the past 15 years. Pedro might have been one of the most dominant pitchers in baseball history especially consideruing the era and league in which he pitched

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        Pedro, Clemens, and Maddux.

        Don’t leave out Maddux. They’re the three-headed Mount Rushmore of our era.

        • jsbrendog

          as i have said in many threads many times, watching maddux throw 96-98 pitch complete games with out looking like he was even trying was amazing. it made me thankful to have cable and tbs.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            I agree. Conversely, showing “Mama’s Family” in syndication all the damn time made me hate having Cable and TBS.

  • JRVJ

    I think that Moose is a HoFer, and I think his leaving on top (as it were), after a 20 win season, will help his case.

    However, I also think that Moose would have benefited from pitching one, two or three more years (not just because of 300 Ws, but because he was in a curious position where he was rapidly going up different All-Time categories. An example is IP, where he’s 64th all time, and 207 innings away from being in the top 50; GS, where he was 26 away from being in the top 25; and even Ks, where he was 42 away from going from 19 to 17).

  • radnom

    This is lible to cause a shit storm, but whatever.

    If Moose is in, so is Shilling.

    Yes/no?

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      Yes to both.

    • http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)

      yeah, i have begrudgingly accepted that Schilling is a HoFer.

    • r.w.g.

      Yeah, I agree. And I think Smoltz gets in as well. I think Moose, Schilling, and Smoltz are all Hall of Fame material. They are all a notch below Johnson, Martinez, and Maddux, but still Hall worthy.

      • radnom

        I would place Smoltz just above Moose/Shilling I think.

        • r.w.g.

          I wouldn’t disagree with that.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            I’m fine with that too.

            • r.w.g.

              i heart consensus.

      • Joey H

        And Roger lol. But true smoltz was a great closer at one point too.

        • radnom

          Roger is unquestionably a HOFer. Bonds too I hate to say it.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Schilling’s in. I have no problem with that.

    • radnom

      Ok, because its hard to argue Moose should be in and that Shilling should not.

      It looks like the rational posters are in tonight though.

    • Thomas

      Better question: If Schilling is in the HOF, is Kevin Brown?

      They have almost identical stats.

      Schilling: http://www.baseball-reference......cu01.shtml

      Brown: http://www.baseball-reference......ke01.shtml

      • radnom

        Wow, those are absurdly similiar.
        Outside of K’s and BB, thats scarily close.

      • radnom

        Can anyone come up with a good statistical argument why Shilling should be in and not Kevin Brown?
        I want to, but I just can’t…

        • Murph1010

          Roids.

          • radnom

            Ha

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        They have almost identical stats.

        Wrong. They have almost identical W/L records and ERA’s, yes.

        Schilling has nearly 700 more K’s, 200 fewer BB’s, and a 1.137 WHIP (compared to Brown’s 1.222), despite fewer starts and fewer batters faced. Those are counting stats worth more than wins and losses.

        They’re both hampered by their inability to stay on the mound, but Schilling was much more dominant when he was on the mound than Brown was.

        Schilling’s in. Brown’s out.

        • radnom

          Um, what? a .09 WHIP is all you’ve got?
          Brown was never the strikeout pitcher Shilling was, but that just wasn’t his style. I remember a quote from his once, his idea of a perfect game would be 27 pitches all sinkers all ground balls.

        • Thomas

          Yeah but Schilling gave up about 150 more homers, and his strike outs and walks are helped by pitching for more time in the NL. Also Brown was better in the NL during his peak than Schilling.

        • radnom

          Wrong. They have almost identical W/L records and ERA’s, yes.

          It’s more than that.
          Innings, park adjusted ERA+, hits, earned runs all remarkably similiar.

          The only thing you can really seperate them by is walks/K but if Brown was able to be just as effective while employing a different style of getting people out, I don’t think that he should be punished for that.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          You also can’t discount postseason records when decided Hall of Fame credentials. Schilling has one of helluva postseason resume even if we don’t want to admit it.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            I didn’t get to that, but yes.

          • radnom

            I still don’t buy that as enough of a difference to say one is definitely in and one is definitely out.

            Its pretty damn close.

  • Josh

    While highly enjoyable to read it matters not. He won games thanks to great offense (as well as was taken off the hock for some loses) and lost games thanks to forces out of his control. Anyone remember how many wins Rasner would have had if the Yankees could have scored 1 or 2 runs in some of the games he pitched when he came up this year?

    The point is, Moose is a Hall of Famer.

    Hopefully those who vote, and never had to through a strike to some juiced DH will see that. Even without the steroids/AL/AL East perspective, Moose had a hell of a career and deserves his spot in the Hall.

    • radnom

      as well as was taken off the hock

      What he does in his personal life shouldn’t affect his candicacy.

  • Bruno

    at 4:52pm it’s not quite night yet ;)

    • Murph1010

      Your point?

    • radnom

      hahahahaha
      The more I see that winking face the more it creeps me out.
      What is this refering to?!

  • Mike Gwizdala

    Very well researched and don’t forget to factor in that Mussina had 16 wins in 1994 before the strike hit on August 12th. So give him another 4-6 wins there and that’s another 20 win season as well as it would make Moose a 280+ game winner.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      umm… I think I covered that.

  • christopher

    guys – you could find the same stats for any pitcher. 2 years ago he won 11 games with an ERA of over 5…surely he has had his share of badly pitched wins also.

    that being said i still think he is a HOF, but people will cling to the fact that he finished with only 300 wins. I dont see him getting in on the first ballot with these stupid writers voting. his post-season record doesnt help either

    the 100 wins over .500 and the fact that he pitched in the AL East his whole career will eventually get him in

    • radnom

      wat.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      The point is not that he “deserved” to win these games but didn’t. The point is not to say that he was an unlucky pitcher. Of course Moose got the win in numerous games where he pitched poorly.

      The point is to underscore how silly all this shit is. You have writers/bloggers/commentators who say “Oh, this guy’s a borderline case, maybe he’s not a Hall of Famer, after all, he only one 20 games once!!!” That is stupid, because the whole concept of “wins” is a dumb, dumb concept. It took me like 15 minutes to find 8 games over 17 seasons where Mike Mussina pitched well but didn’t get a “win”, and if you magically wave your imaginary wand over those 8 games and give him the credit for those “wins”, all of those chatterbox pundits and hack writers would instantly change their tune and praise how awesome he was.

      If me bestowing an exceedingly arbitrary stat on 8 individual game occurrences over the span of 17 years can change the perception of greatness of a player that drastically, that means the stat is probably hot bullshit. And people who argue against a player’s estimation of greatness based on the lack of accumulation of those arbitrary , flawed counting stats are dumbasses that you should mock publicly.

      Wins are just a poor, poor pitcher evaluation metric.

      • jsbrendog

        i wish moose could read this post and your reasoning. he would break out in one of his sardonic smiles and totally agree i feel

        • radnom

          The n he would begin slowly rubbing his muscular chest, and undoing the top button on hi….wait nevermind

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            I loved “Eight Men Out”.

  • Joey H

    Listen, fuck the writers, the man is a hall of famer. Not on the first ballot but definitely on the second or third. And you cant win twenty games without help from your bullpen which he thanked after every start this year I’m sure. Its part of the game. Moose will make the HOF, dont you worry.

  • Budnik (Moose4HOF)

    August 12, 2008 @ Twins

    WINS stat = Flawed

    RAB article illustrating said deficiencies = Flawless

    • radnom

      Citing one specific win in an attempt to discredit a stat that is all about accumulation is absurd.

      Ben did a much better just right here.

      Next are you going to argue that a hit is a useless stat and point to one time where an infielder lost a ball in the sun as an example?

      • radnom

        fucked that up

        it should say
        “ben did a much better job right here

        With the word “here” linking to what the last sentance links to

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

          I fixed it for ya.

          • radnom

            Thank you sir.

      • Budnik (Moose4HOF)

        Whoa there.

        I read the article, went “hmmmm…“, looked up a game from this year that I felt might fit into this topic, went “hmmmm…” again when I saw that it did, and then I made my comment.

        I said that the WINS stat is flawed and that this article illustrated said deficiencies.
        Can you dispute that statement?

        I never said it was a useless stat, which is what you’re implying.
        Can you dispute that statement?

        You’re being silly.

        • radnom

          Perhaps I am being silly.
          I thought the reason you linked that game was as proof that the WINS stat was flawed.
          I didn;’t realise you just threw it in there for kicks. Whatever.

  • Brian

    off topic, but MLBTR mentioning Heyman article on Lowe and Burnett offers in the 60 mil, 4 year range from the Yanks. Braunecker and Boras not fielding them–not five year offers and not good enough AAV. Whatev.

    Also mentions Yank inquiries on O. Hudson.

  • Tim Q. Mills

    Mussina will be on Mike Francessa in 25 minutes (530PM ET)

    You can listen online…

    http://www.wfan.com

  • http://www.samiamsports.blogspot.com SAMIAMSPORTS

    Ok, Say he gets the Hall Call,
    What Hat would he wear to the hall is the real question on hand…
    Debate away my friends
    I say The Orioles

    • A.D.

      I would hope the Yankees, but I’d have to bet on the Orioles.

    • radnom

      Not sure, he is a tough guy to read.
      I honestly didn’t even bother trying to figure out if he was gunna come back or not it was too hard to tell.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        Well, it’s not Mike’s call, it’s the Hall’s… don’t know how much say he has in it.

        • radnom

          Ah, I keep forgetting they changed that. You’re right.

      • http://www.samiamsports.blogspot.com SAMIAMSPORTS

        I thought since the wade bogs incident Devil Rays) its not up to the players anymore

        • christopher

          that was the canseco rule…i believe it was in his contract

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      He was most dominant in Baltimore.

      O’s.

  • jsbrendog

    clap clap clap clap clap clap very well done sir.

    that’s crazy.

    too bad the media and sports writers can’t read

    • radnom

      Was that a slow clap or a chant.

      • jsbrendog

        well it started as a slow clap and built into a crescendo of a chant

  • Matt

    Mooooooooooooooooooooooooose!

    That’s what I’ll miss most. The bowinkle heads for Ks, the moose chants, game 7 vs the sox…

    I won’t miss Michael Kay (who I like) saying “those aren’t boos folks, that’s the fans chanting ‘moose’ everytime Mussina had 2 strikes on a guy…

    Um, yes, he’s a HOFer. But, what is this adjusted stuff where it gives him 8 more wins? Please stop, what about the times he gave up 5 runs and the Yankee offense bailed him out? You can’t go back and use ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’.

    • radnom

      Are they saying moo or moo-oose?

    • radnom

      Please stop, what about the times he gave up 5 runs and the Yankee offense bailed him out? You can’t go back and use ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’.

      I missed this at first in my hurry to referenece the simpsons but Ben addressed it near the top of this thread.

  • Joe Fitz

    How can wins be considered a stupid metric for evaluating how good a pitcher is?

    isnt the point of the game to WIN the game???

    These are the same stat geeks who say rbi’s are useless too. When scoring runs is the point of offense.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      Somehow, I knew you’d completely miss the point of all this.

      Joe Morgan and I thank you for your amazingly consistent consistency. You are a national treasure.

  • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

    “We can’t allow media idiots to keep Mike Mussina out of the Hall of Fame because of a few bad games from… [ASSORTED SH*THEADS]…Raul Mondesi…”

    You dirty motherf*cker.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      I thought you’d appreciate that.

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  • Larry

    let’s not forget the gem that Mo flushed for Moose this year.

  • http://godfather frankopy@yahoo.com

    i wrote sports back in the day; never would i write that a pitcher won a game; rather that he got the decision. or was credited with the win; anyone not in touch with this is a baseball dumbass…and perhaps not too swift of mind in any area calling for clarity of thought…