Monday morning CC thought
ByIt seems that despite the free agent signing period opening on Friday, baseball took the weekend off. The most we got was a rumor that K-Rod was in New York for a physical. Well, that and the Yankees’ mega offer for CC Sabathia. Does the fact that CC hasn’t yet accepted this offer, and likely will not accept it in the next few days, mean anything in the long run of the Yankees pursuit of the hefty lefty?
Not at all. Why should it? Clearly, Sabathia’s agent wants to field a few more offers before making any sort of decision. He likely wants to see how things go with Mark Teixeira and the Angels, since that club is a likely suitor for his client. He probably wants to see how the Manny situation develops. He also probably wants to get an idea of offers made to other free agent pitchers. In other words, he wants to give the situation time to develop so he can better gauge what is in his client’s best interests.
As much as we wish this would play out quickly, that’s just not likely. We’re talking about the best pitcher on the free agent market, possibly the best one to hit the market in the past five to ten years. Yes, the Yankees offer was generous, and I’m sure he appreciates the gesture. That doesn’t mean, however, that he’s just going to sign it. He probably wants to see what’s going on elsewhere. And that’s no insult to the Yankees.
Imagine this scenario, though. CC claims that he wants to get this done quickly: “I want to get it done pretty quick. I try to be as less free as possible. All that is is stress, having it drag on through the winter. We’ll see what happens.” So here’s how he could not only get this done quickly, but maximize his return in the process.
Now that the weekend has passed, Sabathia’s agent, Greg Genske, could/should go to Cashman and say: “We appreciate your more than generous offer. While we understand that this will make CC the highest paid pitcher in the history of the game, there are other factors to consider. However, my client has made it known that he doesn’t want to drag this out all winter. Our counteroffer is six years, $150 million. If offered, we will sign immediately.”
Pie in the sky? I don’t think so. It works for Sabathia because he won’t find that kind of money elsewhere. It works for the Yankees because it reels in their top target, allowing them to focus on the rest of the roster. Once again, it’s not likely. But it sure is neat to think about.
This story makes Carl Pavano exhausted.
classic.
thank you, frank. if no news today, this is enough for me.
well played martini
Nice. And I love your John Madden, Dr. Phil, and George Bush impressions.
That would really be in his best interest.
If he is waiting to see how the Texiera or Manny dealings play out, he is going to be waiting a long long time.
I think they just want a shot to shop the offer around the league and hear back before entering negotiations with the Yankees.
I totally agree, why not wait and see if another team (Angels/Dodgers) offer more? Or close to the same amount over more years?
In the end though, I doubt either will happen and ‘we’ will have CC in time for Christmas.
Oh, and I was away the past 2 weeks, limited internet access, is Nick Swisher (a player I like mind you) really the starting 1B for 2009?
Oh, and I was away the past 2 weeks, limited internet access, is Nick Swisher (a player I like mind you) really the starting 1B for 2009?
no one here knows.
As the roster is currently constructed, yes.
That’s the best way to put it at this point.
As the roster is currently constructed, yes.
As the roster is currently constructed, Hughes, IPK, and Aceves are in our opening day rotation.
Good thing its only November 17th.
Exactly.
I hope this delay doesn’t stop the Yanks from actively pursuing other SP leads whether it be FA or trade. We got to get a definitive answer from Moose beforehand. IT’d look unsavory if the Yanks signed/traded for a SP before Moose decided.
Still, if there’s a plan to seriously pursue a Peavy trade (who’s probably the top available pitcher in the trade market), the dilatory tactics coming from CC and Moose’s respective camps shouldn’t prevent us from pulling that trigger.
How dare the Yankees try to acquire players with a past of stellar production after a down year. No way it worked for them with Scott Brosius, and it certainly didn’t work with David Justice. How can they not just go buy Tex, Manny, AJ and CC, trade for Peavy, develop an undetectable form of steroids for their players and raise Babe Ruth from the dead? I agree with Reggie C
Woops Reggie, posted this in the wrong section. Sorry about that, not referring to you.
not to nitpick, but u got a slight grammatical error in the 2nd paragraph. we sign pitchers and take pictures!
Not grammatical at all. It’s a typo. They happen. Thanks for pointing it out, though. Corrected.
i really dont have any comment, but i want everyone to know that the swisher deal really pisses me off…i just dont understand it…hoping a player makes a comeback is pretty risky to me…if he doesnt..then its another 2008 year for the yankees…it was pretty cut and dry..sign cc,aj and tex and lets play ball…
Who are you upset to not have anymore that was included in that trade?
He’s upset because this probably means the Yankees won’t spend $150 million on Teixeira. If we ran things the way Nick wanted to our payroll would hit half a billion easy.
Yes, I figured as much. But I was going to counter him with the fact that it is not like Swisher cost us any money or valuable prospects that would force us to not go after Tex.
In actuality, they still have the exact same means to sign Tex as before, just slightly less of a need to. According to Cashman, CC and Tex was never a real possibility, even before this deal went down.
Yea for the people who really think the yanks are gonna sign CC and Tex this offseason are gonna be sadly mistaken. Besides, Swisher despite the poor season had 80+ BB’s in 08 so it’s not like he wasn’t walking. If a couple balls are not hit at somebody, then he’s batting what .260 and have a good OBP of .370 or even .380.
I don’t even think it’s about Swisher. They don’t want 1b locked up long term when they may have to play Jeter there in 2 yrs.
If Jeter ends up going anywhere, I would bet on LF.
Ok. Enough with this line of reasoning. Besides the fact that it’s completely unfounded, it’s patently absurd. You don’t eschew signing a much better player for a position because you have to put your aging and declining players somewhere. That’s just not the way to build a championship-caliber team, and anyone who thinks otherwise is, to put it bluntly, wrong.
Could be a possibility.
Could be a possibility.
No. The Yankees potentially not acquiring an elite first baseman because they plan on moving Derek Jeter to first eventually couldn’t be a possibility, because the Yankees couldn’t possibly be contemplating moving Derek Jeter to first base, because that would be titanically idiotic, patently absurd, utterly irrational, and ten times dumber than the moving Joba to the bullpen idea.
Derek Jeter is not a great defensive shortstop. However, he also is not Rob Deer, David Ortiz, Edgar Ramirez, Harold Baines, or John Kruk. He is nowhere near bad enough defensively to ever move to first, especially when A) he’s still playing a passably good SS, and B) there are three outfield positions available for the taking.
If “we need to keep first open for Jeter” ever pops into your head as a realistic consideration for how you think we should plan our team going forward, pay someone to slap you in the face and give serious consideration to the idea of giving up on watching/loving baseball forever, because you don’t understand the game and you’re a moron.
This goes for sportswriters too. If any of them write that, dismiss them as lobotomized chowderheads. They are.
True. When I say it could be a possible, I could of said I doubt it.
You think it was cut and dry, but it clearly is not. This is what happens when you think you can spend other people’s money.
If the Swisher deal “pisses [you] off,” I suggest some serious anger management classes and a reevaluation of how you look at baseball. But based on your previous comments, I’m not going to waste my time explaining for the fifth in a week why the Swisher deal is a good, if not great, one.
Haha, so true. I personally like Swisher, and feel his capable of the numbers he put up in Oakland, and perhaps better. He’s always been known as a good chemistry guy, which is something ‘we’ need.
I could def see him being a .275/25/90, .350-.370/.500+ guy. Remember, he’s only 28 when the season opens…
More on CC, I think he’ll wait around for offers, that won’t touch the Yanks’ deal, and then realize that while he loves to hit, and loves the west coast, going to a team that is willing to do and by do I mean ’spend’ whatever it needs to win, and being handsomely rewarded for it is the best option.
Swisher is actually younger than Tex.
You’re being too generous with the BA and Slugging %. Swisher should rebound b/c the peripherals supposedly weren’t bad, but you’re talking of him setting personal bests in BA and Slugging. Hmm…that’s more an outlier season for him. For him to hit .275 and slug +.500 , he’d need alot of success against AL East pitching.
I know. It was such a terrible trade considering how much they gave up.
Really. Is he pissed that Wilson Betemit and his .289 OBP will no longer be around? Or does he think that Marquez and/or Nunez were going to make significant contributions this year (or any year, for that matter).
God forbid they try to add talent and make the team deeper.
Maybe he has to return his Wilson Betemit jersey.
How dare the Yankees try to acquire players with a past of stellar production after a down year. No way it worked for them with Scott Brosius, and it certainly didn’t work with David Justice. How can they not just go buy Tex, Manny, AJ and CC, trade for Peavy, develop an undetectable form of steroids for their players and raise Babe Ruth from the dead? I agree with Nick.
I guess this is semi humorous but do you really need to post it 6 times?
We get it
I mis-posted it once…chill out Bo
Maybe my memory is faulty, but didn’t they trade for Justice in the middle of a pretty good season?
I think he had 40 HRs that year, between Cleavand and NY.
This applies to Pettitte, too. We can’t be shocked that the Yanks haven’t moved on Pettitte one way or another. The Phillies just won. The Winter Meetings are 3 1/2 weeks away. While I check the news too obsessively, thankfully the filling of the Yanks roster doesn’t happen quickly just to meet my needs, he said, while looking for something new to chew on…
Methinks the priority list looks something like this (assuming Moose is done and barring Peavy developments):
1. CC
If yes, celebrate and go to Burnett and Lowe.
If no, go to Burnett and Lowe.
2. Burnett/Lowe (Sheets?)
If one, go to Pettitte if yes on CC.
If two, go to Pettitte if no on CC.
If yes to Burnett, Lowe, and CC, skip Pettitte.
3. Pettitte
If yes, go to Teixeira.
If no, go to Teixeira.
4. Teixeira
If no to CC, push for Teixeira.
If yes to CC, skip Teixeira.
If no to CC and yes to Teixeira, go to Abreu.
If no to CC and no to Teixeira, go to Abreu.
5. Abreu
If no to CC and yes to Teixeira, offer arb to Abreu, likely to say goodbye.
If no to CC and no to Teixeira, offer arb to Abreu, but willing to negotiate two year contract.
Proceed to Giambi.
6. Giambi
If no to CC, no to Teixeira, and no to Abreu, attempt to sign Giambi to small contract.
Nah, it’s probably not this linear. But the point is, you don’t find out what’s happening with Andy Pettitte or Le Bobs until the rest shakes out.
oh, and cy marquez will be the first MLBaller to President of the US. You watch.
You need matrices or at least flow charts to lay out all the possibilities.
right. and nevermind the workings of 29 other teams. they don’t exist.
Yes, this is definitely in flowchart format.
Dont give him any ideas.
It’s like a Choose Your Adventure Model.
“If you choose to pursue CC and Teixeira, go to page 54.
“If you choose to re-sign Andy Pettitte, go to page 18.
“If you choose to try to disarm the laser trap and sneak past the Morglothian space-guards, go to page 73.”
I don’t get the whole “if they don’t get CC, they need to push hard for Tex” line of thought. If they miss out on CC, they need … another pitcher. Not another hitter. Just because they miss out on the chance to pay someone $25M per yr doesn’t mean they should go to the next guy in line for that salary.
If they miss out CC, then they have to push hard for Burnett/Lowe/Sheets. Tex won’t replace CC at all.
well right, that’s not my line of thought. if they sign lowe, sheets, and pettitte, then they’re done. cc is just to show that if he is signed, there is just no money for Tex. At all.
4. Teixeira
If no to CC, push for Teixeira.
If yes to CC, skip Teixeira.
That’s what I was referring too. It made it seem like Tex was the guy they had to get if they miss out on CC.
yeah, misleading.
should write: if no on cc and only one (two?) of of Lowe, Sheets, Burnett, and Pettitte signed, push for Teixeira.
I don’t really buy it, but I can see why people have it in their minds.
They want to add a premier player to the team, one that can be part of the core for many years.
Right now, there are two such players that can do that, and since pitching is our greater need CC is the focus.
Besides, going hard after Tex wouldn’t stop us from also targeting the middling pitching free agents.
In my mind though, the thing you have to push hard for after missing CC is the Peavy deal.
Let’s hope it doesn’t come to that.
giambis time is done here. there was 5% chance they signed him before the trade, and after the trade, its 0%
I’ll be shocked and kinda disappointed if Pettitte wasn’t in the rotation in 2009.
A one yr deal for a proven lefty is way too good to pass up.
They certainly don’t want to have 3 long term SP deals.
Yeah I really don’t want to touch Lowe or Burnett myself.
Sheets I would be ok with…but in addition to CC/Pettite, not replacing Pettite.
In that scenario Hughes in the 6th man, and that is plenty of backup in my mind if Sheets would go down.
Considering Pettitte is amenable to a 1-year offer, i expect him to sign. His is a case where sentimentality probably outweighs finances b/c he could likely get a multi-year offer from any number of NL teams. We just got to hear a definitive answer from Moose first. If Moose wants to come back, i really believe the Yanks would opt to sign Moose and let Pettitte walk. I’d be shocked to see BOTH guys come back.
Yeah, I would have thought that more possible at the end of the season. But now, both guys would only happen if we completely struck out with free agent pitchers and Moose wanted to play. Doubtful.
How will they strike out with FA pitchers when they will be offering far and away the most money to each of them?
How many top FA’s choose less money?
They’ll have their pick of the litter.
I doubt we will be discussing in March a rotation fronted by Sheets and Brad Penny and Randy Wolf.
And as for Pettitte, a one-year would be better than Lowe and Burnett both. No way do we really want CC, Lowe, and Burnett contracts beyond 2009, despite Hank.
There are so many chickens to count!!!
A quick aside: just lost three chickens to some fierce raccoons a couple days ago. The worst part was when I found them, I had to go out there and finish one off that was still barely breathing….ugh, thank goodness the kids didn’t see (they are pets, and I am no man with qualified axe experience). It was brutal.
what in the hell r u talking about
How he had to brutally finish off a wounded chicken with a blunt axe.
What are you talking about?
“How he had to brutally finish off a wounded chicken with a blunt axe.”
Is that what you kids are calling it these days? That’s sick, you’ll go blind.
Leyritz: ‘I was not at all responsible for the accident.’
fantastic.
Even though I don’t want AJ, want type of contract he wants?
4-year deal at 60M?
he turned down 4/52 with the jays i believe… i think hed want 17-18 per year
if a team offers 5/90 that would get it done i would imagine
4/60 and 5/90 is a pretty big difference. 5/90 seems high, but what do I know…
I pity the fool who signs Burnett to a 5/90 deal.
i am in no way advocating that signing… anyone who has read my posts knows im anti-burnett… im just saying, thats my prediction for what he finally ends up signing for
…. hopefully not with the yanks
I wasn’t implying you were.
But seriously, it is going to suck for who ever wins the bidding war.
I think out of all the big FA not named Texiera, he will have to most teams going after him, could drive the price up stupidly.
i know its a big difference, which is why i think 4/60 wouldnt come close
he seems to like the jays and feel comfortable there, so i wouldnt think he turn down there 4/52 offer just to sign a 4/60 one
and when i said 5/90, i meant that as the ending price, the one that he would finally accept after a few offers and small bidding war
I have a hard time beleiving somebody is gonna give him that type of money. 5/90 is absurd. That’s a better contract or similar to what Moose got 8 years ago and Moose was MUCH better than Burnett.
8 yrs is an eternity in baseball contracts. Moose would get 140 mill for 7 now if he was 8 yrs younger and on the open market.
5/90 for Burnett is insanity. That has the potential to be Pavano 2.0. Or Pavano 3.0, because it might end up so bad we’d have to skip 2.0.
im tellin ya, he will sign somewhere in that range, watch it happen
Meh, you’re probably right.
Let’s just hope it’s not Cash that does it.
I don’t think he’ll get that kind of money. He’s already 32 years old and he’s got the very real history of following a 200 IP season with an injury-shortened one. Gx, you just put up Boras’s dream offer. It’s not happening.
we will agree to disagree, im tellin ya someone will pony up that 5th year, and it will take around 17-18 per year to sign him… derek lowe will probably get that original 4/60 deal someone posted a long time ago
u guys gotta understand, this is not what i think they SHOULD be signed for, its what i think they WILL be signed for
If Burnett wants that, then fuck him.
yes, i agree
What would everyone thing about offering Jason Giambi a 2yr 10 million dollar deal?
It would basically be a 15 million dollar deal if you count the 5 mil buyout.
I wonder if Giambi would even be interested in this sort of deal? It’s no secret how much he loved being a Yankee, a New Yorker, and his close ties to some of the players (Jeter).
I think he can get a better offer than that, and two it make’s no sense having a 5 million a year dh bench player
i wouldnt like it…. i think giambis time has run its course in the bronx
id be willing to hear an argument for a 1/8 deal or somethin in the neighborhood… but 2 just seems foolish, especially after the swish trade
I have a different take on the CC situation. His offer of 140M for 6 years is already the most offered to a pitcher. Yanks should give him 2 weeks to take it or leave it- no team is going to top that offer. True, the Yanks need pitching but the fact of the matter is there has to be some concern about his number of innings pitched in a relatively short period of time, the fact he does not pitch well vs. the RS, and his career post season record (including this year with the Brewers) is nothing to write home about. Also, the fact CC is so torn about staying in the NL and in California specifically sends a major red flag in my view. They already made a more than generous offer- if his agent comes back with a 150M counter, I’d say thanks, but no thanks.
a little early for the deadline tactic, franky steinbrenner!
I don’t understand that though. Why risk pissing him off with a negotiating ploy? Especially if its our plan to offer the most money no matter what and we view him as our potential ace for the next 6 years.
not sure u can let 10M stand between u and CC at this point…
and i think the whole failing in the postseason is nonsense… this year the guy pitched in about 4 consecutive HUGE games for the brewers, all with playoff implications and wild card on the line, and he delivered in all of them…. yes his one foul-up was in the nlds, but it was like his 64th start in a row on short rest, and its not like the previous 5 starts he made werent really big games
dude was worn out… and i think the same applies to 2007 playoffs
conclusion: if we manage him well during the season ((keep him under 230 innings)) i think he will be fine in october
if u wanna know how he pitches in big games… just look at his september numbers… those were all big games
the fact he does not pitch well vs. the RS
i don’t know if this is a “fact”.
Sabathia vs. AL East
Boston: 48.1 IP, 3.91 ERA (23 IP, 2.35 ERA at Fenway)
Baltimore: 64.1 IP, 2.38 ERA
Toronto: 67.2 IP, 3.46 ERA
Tampa: 81 IP, 2.44 ERA
he’ll be just fine.
Well, the all important stat is how he pitches against the Yankees, right? That’s what makes Burnett so attractive.
CC against the Yanks:
49.2 IP, 6.16 ERA
But wait, it gets better! CC at Yankee Stadium:
23 IP, 8.61 ERA
Let me be the first to say … bust!
LeBron’s all “come to Daddy, Clee-town.”
i realize you are being facetious, but most of those numbers are from his first 2-3 seasons in the majors.
for some odd scheduling quirk, CC didn’t face the Yankees from 2005-2007, and we saw how he did in 2008.
This deadline tactic would never work. Every GM and agent in baseball knows the Yankees are desperate for CC and pitching in general. Also, there is absolutely no leverage in this kind of threat. If we give CC two weeks to sign and that passes, who do we threaten to move on to…Derek Lowe? Also, our front office hasn’t done a good job in the recent past with staying true to their promises/deadlines…and i’m specifically referring to A-Rod. No free agent would fall for our deadlines anymore.
anyone who would rather have swisher than really doesnt have a great baseball mind….signing tex.cc and aj….is not running the money past billions…they will end up spending more anyway..and besides..its none of our business how much money the yankees want to lay out….anyone who wouldnt like those three signings has got a screw loose…
another strawman.
find me one person who would “rather have” Swisher than Teixeira.
there isn’t a single person on this site who said this or feels this way.
what people are saying is that the Yankees *MAY* not want to shell out two mega-contracts in the same off-season, and if that is the case, Swisher is a nice pickup. that has nothing to do with what any of us “want”. i want them to spend whatever it takes and sign Teixeira. but just because i want them to doesn’t mean they ever had any intention of doing so.
also, what people are saying, is that maybe the Yankees WILL still pursue Teixeira, in which case Swisher is STILL a nice pickup as he can play one of the OF positions.
no one here has ever said, or ever will say: “you know, Nick Swisher is a better player than Mark Teixeira”
dude even the yanks have payroll limits
as fans, we have every right to hope the team spends its money wisely, it enables us to make better acquisitions in subsequent years
furthermore, anyone would who gets “pissed off” by the swish trade has a “screw loose”
let me put it another way:
the Yankees should have made the Swisher trade regardless of what they plan to do or don’t do with Teixeira.
they gave up very little in talent and took on a very reasonable contract.
before the trade, they had zero corner OFers signed beyong 2009. Swisher is great insurance for 2010-2011.
i really want Teixeira. but that doesn’t mean getting Swisher wasn’t smart. Swisher makes $5.5M in 2009. he is not preventing them from getting Teixeira IF that is what they wanted to do.
What doesn’t this dude get about them wanting to keep 1b open for guys like Jeter and Posada and A-Rod if needed?
They aren’t going to give a long term contract to a 1b. Who knows. Maybe in a month they check in on him an get him at 3-4 yrs. But 7 to 10? Not gonna happen
you know by now i wanted so much for tex to be a yankee…there arent many people that would disagree with that….my feeling is they will not make arun for him…
Sheets > Peavy > Burnett > Lowe > Perez with injury risk being equal
sound aboot right?
the idea of signing burnett/sheets/lowe > the idea of trading good young pieces for peavy > promoting igawa > pitching robinson cano > trading joba chamberlain to get wilson betemit back > giving any money whatsoever to oliver perez
i would agree with this order if injury risk were equal.
unfortunately it is not.
those players are probably ALSO listed in the order of greatest injury risk, maybe flipping Lowe and Perez.
Peavey is not an injury risk.
He missed a month this yr with an elbow problem and has a violent delivery.
And every pitcher carries an injury risk.