Moose doesn’t sound like a man intent on retirement

He's o-Kei in AAA
The River Ave. Blues Podcast - November 13, 2008 - Episode 1

Since the end of the season, Yankees fans have been waiting to hear the intentions of Mike Mussina. The 20-game winner doesn’t have a contract for the 2009 season, and there has been heavy speculation that he will go out on top. Still, we haven’t heard much from the man himself. It sounds like he’s still mulling the decision; if he was set on retiring, I imagine he would have announced it already.

That isn’t to say that he’s coming back. The way he told it to Mark Feinsand, he still hasn’t decided one way or another. We could hear from him soon, though. He claims he will make his decision “early next week.”

“I’m still kind of up in the air,” Mussina said Wednesday from his home in Montoursville, Penn. “I’m enjoying my time off, but then again, I always enjoy my time off.”

If he does come back, the first question will be on what terms. Will Moose seek a guaranteed three years, which he feels he’ll need to reach 300 wins? Will he accept a one- or two-year deal with options, perhaps of the vesting or mutual type? Or, most importantly, will he consider pitching anywhere but New York?

For all we know, though, we could be bidding adieu to a borderline Hall of Famer early next week. In either case, it has been a pleasure to have Moose on the mound for the past eight years. You know, except those few months in 2007.

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He's o-Kei in AAA
The River Ave. Blues Podcast - November 13, 2008 - Episode 1
  • nick blasioli

    somebody must know something because of the way they are treating andy pettete..it looks like moose as a number five starter….just my guess….

    • rbizzler

      I also thought the connection b/t Moose and Andy when I read this. It is still curious that they haven’t struck a deal with Andy yet. He already said that he would take a one-year deal and if he ends up being your 5/6th starter, the team is in good/great shape.

    • Chris C.

      Mussina should stop acting like a prima donna and make up his mind already, so Cashman will know where he stands and plan accordingly. I mean geez, the guy’s had all season and over a month to decide if this is it.

      This BS all started with Clemens, then Pettitte, and now Mussina.
      Is this some kind of negotiating ploy, because if these people are really not sure if they still want to play baseball for a living, then why do the Yankees want guys who’s hunger for the game has apparently wained?

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        why do the Yankees want guys who’s hunger for the game has apparently wained?

        Because they’re still better options than other inferior/more expensive players who are more passionate about the game?

  • daneptizl

    Watch them bring back Moose and let Andy go…

  • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

    And 2004…

  • J.R.

    Moose is arguably the smartest guy on the Yankees and to me this seems like a negotiation tactic that he has thought out. My guess is that he is waiting to see what one of the other free agents in the second tier go for (i.e Lowe) if Lowe gets and then use that as a bench mark. Lets not forget this was the guy who used Carl Pavano’s ineptness as a negotiating ploy to make Cashman pay more.

    Or he could be using the stall tactic so get the 2 or 3 year contract that he apparently wants. Either way, I see Mussina sitting back right now to leverage his position.

    • daneptizl

      Or he could be seriously considering retirement…

      • J.R.

        There is that too. But my gut is that he wants to see a contract of dempster, lowe or maybe sheets. And the 4 years for $50 million that dempster was offered provides a pretty good benchmark. So Mussina could ask for 3 for 36 to 40?

        Like I said, this is just my feeling on it.

        • AlexCT

          you guys all seem to forget that moose is coming off a 20 win season. he can ask what he wants. i think he just isn’t sure. if he decides to stay, the yanks will make him an immediate offer. and a good one.

          • J.R.

            He will also be a 40 year old pitcher on opening day. 40 year old pitchers do not receive 3 year deals. I think everyone is in agreement to give him a 2 year with a club option.

  • gxpanos

    Frankly, I’d take Moose over Pettitte. I just wish Cash didn’t think he had to choose. Depth, depth, depth.

    • http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)

      I just wish Cash didn’t think he had to choose.

      and you are basing this on…….?

    • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

      actually, i think cashman would like to have both back

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        “actually, i think cashman would like to have both back”

        … at reasonable rates/lengths

        • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

          i thought that went without saying… but yes

          point was that i disagree cashman “thinks he has to choose”

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            Yup. IMO, it’s the rates/lengths that will force him to choose Pettitte and not Moose. Just my guess.

      • Chris C.

        Lord knows why he’d want Pettitte back. He can’t search the market and find someone better than a 37 year old who just posted a .500 season. lousy ERA, and is looking for an 8 digit salary??

        Honestly, if the Yankees can’t get that same production from someone in their own system, then their system is way overhyped.

  • RichYF

    On a 1-year deal I take Moose over Andy. If Moose comes back for 1 year, he’s already said he’ll come back for 3. If he only has a 1-year deal, he’s going to want to pitch well enough to get 2 more years (from someone else if need be).

    If it’s a 3-year deal and Andy is taking a 1-year deal, I’m taking Andy all the way. That’s a no-brainer.

    Moose for 1 year, Andy otherwise. I don’t doubt Moose can still hack it, but if he’s got 3 years to get to 300 wins, he’s probably going to take it a lot less seriously than if he’s only got a guaranteed 1 year.

    • J.R.

      The way Moose was able to go slow, slower and even slower, I think he can easily pitch for two or three more years.

      • RichYF

        I absolutely agree that he can go 3 more years. I just don’t think he should get a 3 year deal. 1 year with options or 2 years with an option is the most I’d go. Giving him a guaranteed 3 years is just a bad idea. I love Moose, but I’d rather have Andy if he’s going to demand 3 years. Moose needs to have something to prove in order to pitch at a high level. This is just my gut feeling from watching him the last few years. I want him on a performance deal because that’s the only way IMHO to motivate him enough to repeat 2008 (if it’s even possible).

        • Chris C.

          “I absolutely agree that he can go 3 more years.”

          Let’s not go crazy now. Mussina will not pitch at a high level for 3 more years.

          And can someone please tell me why the Yankees choices for a spot in their rotation is between Mussina and Pettitte, when there are about 3.8 million other living, breathing pitchers out there on Earth?
          Mussina I can understand waiting on, but Pettitte?

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            And can someone please tell me why the Yankees choices for a spot in their rotation is between Mussina and Pettitte, when there are about 3.8 million other living, breathing pitchers out there on Earth?

            Because even though you may not believe it, Andy Pettitte in 2009 will still probably outperform all 3.8 million of those “other” pitchers. I’m sorry to break it to you, but most of those other pitchers just aren’t as good as old, diminished, fatigued Andy Pettitte.

    • Chris C.

      “On a 1-year deal I take Moose over Andy.”

      Let’s see……
      Moose in 2008………..20-9, 3.37 ERA.
      Pettitte in 2008……….14-14, 4.54 ERA.

      Wow, can that limb you just went out on support your weight?

      The rest of your post reads like a bad riddle.

      • RichYF

        Okay, I’ll break it down further:

        If Andy and Moose are both accepting 1 year deals, I choose Andy.

        If Andy is accepting a 1 year and Moose is only accepting a 3 year, I choose Andy.

        Better?

        Also, I did not say “Moose will produce at a high level for 3 years.” I said he can pitch for 3 years. I would not sign him for 3 years because it is just bad business. 1 year with options.

        Pettitte appears to be looking for a 1 year deal. This means he’s a short term solution. This means he’s more attractive as a player, to me at least.

  • daneptizl

    Sherman says Yanks will offer Sabathia tomorrow. He guesses 6/150. Whoa. Might as well sign tomorrow…

    • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

      I hope he is right. Hopefully we make that two year $60 offer to Manny that I know we are not going to but should.

      • whozat

        Yeah, if there’s anything we’ve seen in this past season it’s that immobile DH types on huge contracts lead to the world series.

        • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

          I agree with that statement except that Manny is the exception to that rule. If we got Manny we could dump Damon, and or Matsui and we already appear to be getting rid of Abreau. Giambi Hands of Steel is already gone. Se we have room for a guy like that.

          I know we will not sign him, but we should.

          • Chris C.

            “If we got Manny we could dump Damon, and or Matsui and we already appear to be getting rid of Abreau. Giambi Hands of Steel is already gone. Se we have room for a guy like that.”

            There’s alot of sadness in this paragraph.
            4 top notch, high class individuals on their way out, and a classless bum like Ramirez on his way in.

            Outside of a competitive standpoint, that’s a damn shame.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your viewpoint), the competitive standpoint is the only one that truly matters. We’re a professional baseball club who’s only two true purposes for existing are making money and competing for championships.

  • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

    id love him back… but 3 guaranteed years?

    we are desperate, but im not so sure thats a wise move….

    wish we could get him on a wakefield type plan

  • JRVJ

    I’ve been saying all along that the longer Moose strings this out, the more likely he’ll return.

    IMO, if I were Cashman, I’d offer him two years, with an option that vests if he’s over 290 wins after the end of the 2 years (but which doesn’t vest if Moose has already reached 300).

    Finally, it’d be really nice to see Pete Abe eat crow if Moose comes back (I generally like Pete Abe, but he’s been extremely one-minded about Moose retiring).

    • http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)

      Finally, it’d be really nice to see Pete Abe eat crow if Moose comes back (I generally like Pete Abe, but he’s been extremely one-minded about Moose retiring).

      wait, you mean like when he said that Mariano’s “friend” said he wouldn’t be back after Torre left?

  • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

    I would not give Andy OR Moose more than a one year deal. If they want more offer them arb and let them walk and lets get some solid picks. Both of these guys have gotten rich and famous as Yankees and they can offer a discount this time around in dollars and or years. If not let us get rich with draft picks.

    • http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)

      Both of these guys have gotten rich and famous as Yankees and they can offer a discount this time around in dollars and or years.

      this is hilarious coming from the guy who just yesterday said that the Yankees should pay Jeter whatever he wants.

      • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

        I never said pay him whatever he wants. I said pay the man. Jeter never did PED’s. Andy left the Yanks for LESS money. Moose is not a home grown Yankee, he only came here because he got paid more. Moose would not pitch inside as a Yankee untill Joe G had the balls to tell him to do it or ride the pine in the pen.

        Jeter is owed something from the Yankees more than just $, Moose and Andy are not. That is my opinion. Seems like some of the folks that post on here think you need a graph and some trendy $2 words to have an opinion on baseball and baseball related subjects.

        • http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)

          That is my opinion. Seems like some of the folks that post on here think you need a graph and some trendy $2 words to have an opinion on baseball and baseball related subjects.

          ok, i guess i imagined that you called anyone who disagreed with your opinion on Jeter a “mook”.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            steve (different one) = Mookie Wilson

        • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

          Seems like some of the folks that post on here think you need … some trendy $2 words to have an opinion on baseball and baseball related subjects.

          Hey, what you trying to say? I pay like three-fitty for my words!

          • rbizzler

            damn city prices…

          • jsbrendog

            loch ness monsta says thanks

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            Seems like some of the folks that post on here think you need … some trendy $2 words to have an opinion on baseball and baseball related subjects.

            Nope. Just a critical mind, intellectual curiosity, and the ability to write three sentences without horribly contradicting yourself or spewing romanticized tautologies bulllshit myths and meaningless statements.

        • Chris C.

          “Moose is not a home grown Yankee, he only came here because he got paid more.”

          This is incorrect. As I recall, 2 or 3 other teams actually offered more than the Yankees (including the Orioles at the last minute), but Mussina was sold on playing for Joe Torre.

      • Chris C.

        “Both of these guys have gotten rich and famous as Yankees and they can offer a discount this time around in dollars and or years.”

        If anyone would do that, it would be Pettitte. But it’s obvious he’d been hanging out with Clemens too long already, so forget it.

    • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

      i think moose was famous before he became a yankee

      • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

        No he was just a baseball player. He was known in Baltimore, he was known in the baseball world. He was not somebody that a casual non baseball sportsfan would even know his name.

        • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

          gimme a break… the guy was selected as an all star 5 times and played in 3 of the games… he wasnt “just a baseball player”

          if u make the all star team 5 times in your first 9 years, ur not just some player, even casual baseball fans knew who mike mussina was well before his arrival in new york

          all that said, its besides the point… u implied that he owed something to the yanks b/c u thought they allegedly made him famous… which is nonsense…. they didnt make him famous, and he doesnt really owe them anything, and he shouldnt have to settle for a discount if he doesnt want one

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          This is HILARIOUS.

          Guess what: Casual, non-baseball sportsfans STILL don’t know Mike Mussina’s name. Moving from Baltimore to NY didn’t up his image a bit, because Moose still avoids the spotlight and eschews ads and endorsements.

          He’s STILL just a baseball player. I’ve seen less spin at the laundromat.

          • http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)

            i still don’t see what it has to do with anything.

            • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

              for me, it had to do with the fact that he used this argument to say the yanks made moose famous, which they didnt, and because of it he owes them a discount, which he doesnt

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              i still don’t see what it has to do with anything.

              That’s because it doesn’t have anything to do with anything. It’s pointless doggerel that’s both wrong and meaningless.

              http://riveraveblues.com/2008/.....ent-202971

          • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

            perhaps u made my point better… ill change what i said to “if they didnt know who he was in baltimeore, they still dont know who he is now” …. OR “they knew he was good in baltimeore, and still know hes good now”

        • Chris C.

          WHAAAT????? The guy was a perennial All-Star in Baltimore.

  • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

    “For all we know, though, we could be bidding adieu to a borderline Hall of Famer early next week.”

    Fixed.

    • Ron

      Agreed. These automatic benchmarks (330 wins, 500 HRs, 3,000 hits) just show how lazy and uninformed the voters are. While certainly not the best of all time or even of his generation, by any objective measurement, Moose is a Hall of Famer.

  • Bill R

    Keeping Mussina as a 5th starter over Hughes i would be ok with. Hughes still needs to compile more innings at AAA and having Hughes as our 6th starter ready to come up during an eventual injury is pretty good. Still CC, Wang, Sheets/Burnett, Joba, Moose is a pretty damn good rotation

    • J.R.

      CC, Joba, Wang, Moose, and having a large selection of internal candidates would be great.

      Probably going:
      hughes
      aceves
      kennedy
      and god forbid our AAA MVP Igawa

  • JeffG

    I like Pettit going year to year. Leaves room for Hughes or Brackman to come up if things go right. If we lock Mussinna in at three and he doesn’t repeat the amazining year he had… we are going to regret it, especially if we passed on Pettit because of it. Also, I’d imagine after 20 wins he is going to cost more in tems annual salary as well.

    • daneptizl

      Brackman…

      • http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/news/2000/01/18/jeter_ap/index.html steve (different one)

        hey, at least he spelled it right.

      • JeffG

        Dude, Brackman has been wild since comming back from Tommy John. I suspect he will spend all of this year in the minors but there is nothing saying that he couldn’t be ready by 2010.
        The guy is a prospect and might not pan out, but the type of contract he signed says that our scouts think he’s a major league bad ass. We’ll see.

    • http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_postseason.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=121250&statType=2 Slugger27

      dude… “pettit”

      you are a red sox fan just screwin with us, right?

      • JeffG

        Ahh…Mussina and Pettitte.
        I’m shitty at spelling names, spelling in general for that matter, but is there anything in the above post that sounds like a Redsox fan?
        How about the idea? Any comments on that or are you just getting busy with the red pen?

  • Moose Returns!

    ARE ALL OF YOU GUYS ARE OUT OF YOUR MINDS?!?!?! I know I’ve been away for almost a year now, but some of you people have to be kidding me.

    It is literally impossible for someone to justify giving Mussina a 2-3 year contract right now for his likely demanding price of around 10mil/yr. Notwithstanding this past season, Mussina has been nothing but a DECENT pitcher since ’05, and was god awful in ’07.

    The man had a great “statistical” year last year, but I think its safe to say that those were the softest 20 wins in the history of MLB. He wasn’t dominate by any means – he simply got by when he had to and received favorable run support for the most part. And if you look at his innings-pitched, he rarely went past 6.

    I refuse to believe that a man who throws 86 MPH at max speed deserves a 3 year K for 36 mil, as one blogger has proposed. This has shades of Greg Maddux all over it – nice story, nice guy, but didnt retire when he should have.

    The Yankees need to get younger power arms, not older finese arms. Sign CC and Burnett, bring back Pettite for 1 year at 6mil, and you’ve got the best rotation in baseball when you include Hughes, Joba, and Wang. Ballgame over…

    Thanks for comin’ out.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      MULTIPLE INTERROBANGS!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

  • JeffG

    While I definitely think you missed last season and what it was, I’ll agree that I personally do not think Mussina is going to repeat the year he had. His approach improved so I would predict that he could be a lot better than just decent. (I place decent around 12 wins).
    At the same time I believe that Andy’s potential for a bounce back is greater than Moose’s potential for another 20. That said, I wouldn’t like to have to take a bet on who will garner more wins in 09 assuming they both would play. In my mind either one could easily get 15 or 16.
    Now if I had to choose between one or the other I’d take Pettitte because the contract is easier to swallow. I’d guess it around 10 – 11 million (1yr) vs. Mussina’s 13 (3yr). As I mentioned in an above post I like the idea of having flexibility for filling spots from the farm next year or the year after.
    Obviously everyone wants CC then Wang 1 / 2. You know Joba takes a spot. But for the other two holes, (not three by the way – you left a six man rotation above) like you, I think Burnett could be great if he holds up so I’d take the gamble. Alternative to Burnette would be Pavano only in the case that we need the cash to get Texiera. First choice is major budget so that decision wouldn’t be necessary. And that brings me back to the end of the line where Andy goes in front of Moose and Moose stays retired.
    Hard decision though…

    • JeffG

      Ah… I was at a 50-50 clip spelling Burnett… please forgive.

  • Peter Lacock

    Both will be back.
    Andy on a one year contract (as usual).
    Moose on a one year contract plus 2 mutual options.