Musings on Bobby Abreu

Monday night Hot Stove open thread
Yanks, Cisco set to team up for stadium venture

We keep coming back to Bobby Abreu. He’s that free agent with whom no one knows know what to do.

On Sunday night, in our open thread, a mini-discussion broke out about Bobby Abreu’s declining walk rate. Some saw it as a sign that Bobby is nearing that Bernie Williams circa 2003/2004 point of no returns. Others — as Jeff Passan wrote in his absurdly comprehensive free agent tracker — still see Abreu as a potent offensive force and are seduced by his career .300/.400/.500 offensive line.

I go back and forth on Abreu. On the one hand, I see him as a much better choice than Xavier Nady, but I recognize that this reaction is based on Nady’s bad month and the two players’ prior records. Considering Bobby will be 35 while Nady will be 30 come opening day, the possibility exists that Nady could outperform Abreu in either or both of the next two seasons despite the fact that Bobby Abreu is a far, far superior player.

So while we’ve already debated Abreu, I’d like to offer up some observations that serve as something as a counterpoint to my own previous belief that the Yanks will let Abreu walk. With Matt Holliday heading to Oakland and the Yanks seemingly not that interested in Manny, Abreu may very well be the best choice whether we like it or not.

Now, despite this predicament, there are some warning signs. Since arriving in New York, past his peak, at age 32, Abreu’s walk rate has dropped, while on the Yanks, from a walk every 7.5 BB in his first two months in the Bronx in 2006 to once every 8.3 PAs in 2007 to once every 9.4 PAs in 2008. That is a fairly dramatic slide. But on the other hand, we have his K rates. This went from 4.8 PA/K in 2006 to 6.1 PA/K to 6.3 PA/K. While he’s walking less, he’s also striking out less. All of this means that Bobby Abreu is putting the ball in play more often. But why?

According to ESPN’s stats page, Abreu is still seeing an impressive 4.29 pitches per plate appearance. This total is right in line with his career average and is down from the 4.39 mark in 2007 and the 4.44 mark he put up during his first few months in the Bronx. The 2006 totals, by the way, were a career high for Bobby in that department.

Now, I’m thinking these changes are due to the lineup. In Philadelphia, Abreu hit third in front of Pat Burrell. In New York, he hits third in front of Alex Rodriguez. Pitchers are much more likely to go after Abreu if they have A-Rod up next. Why pitch around Abreu to face Alex with a runner on base? Objectively, that doesn’t make sense. So perhaps the AL pitchers are more inclined to attack the zone. Who knows? That’s just my theory.

While these numbers offer us a glimpse at what’s going on, we can’t escape the fact that Abreu is getting old, and he’s slowing down. It’s unavoidable. But perhaps his declining walk rate isn’t as much of a concern as we all think.

He’s not a steady outfielder; he’s 35. Those are two good reasons to replace him with some younger. But that option might not exist. The Yankees may just need Bobby Abreu after all.

Monday night Hot Stove open thread
Yanks, Cisco set to team up for stadium venture
  • http://www.realmofhob.com Adam Hobson

    It seems to me that the conventional wisdom is best. Signing Abreu to a long term, three year deal which would probably cost $40 million in total is a bad idea. Thus it’s best just to offer him arbitration, if he wants to come back for the likely $16-18 million he’ll make for one year, then that is fine. He’ll cost a lot this one year, but he’ll keep the roster flexible in that it’s only for a year. If his abilities decline more, then let him walk after next year.

    If however a team like the Cubs decide they really need his left-handed bat and OBP enough to give him that 3 year/$40 million contract, then taking the draft pick compensation, throwing Nady in right, and maybe signing someone like Juan Rivera for a year and $5 million as a platoon partner isn’t the worst idea in the world.

  • radnom

    Good theory, and that definitely would explain if there was a large change in walk rate when he made the transition from Phily to NY; but since he got here he has had Arod behind him the whole time and continued on a fairly consistent slide.

    All in all, I wouldnt mind having Abreu back if the years are right but it means you are committing to one of the following:
    A. Damon in center
    or
    B. Nady at first.

    Barring a trade of one of the above (or Matsui) of course.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      A few points:

      One I failed to make in the post. I wouldn’t get Abreu more than two years, and even that, I would be very, very hesitant about.

      Second, Hideki Matsui is the DH. I say there’s approximately no chance he plays more than a handful of games in the OF next year, and if you — the royal Yankee fan you — consider him to be anything more, then this team has many more problems and holes than we originally thought.

      • radnom

        You misunderstood my mentioning Matsui, I fully understand he is the DH.
        If Abreu is in right next year and Matsui is the DH then Damon must be in center (with Nady in Left) OR Nady must be at first (with Gardner in center).

        Trading Matsui opens up the DH for Damon, that is what I mean.

  • Marcus

    I don’t even understand why we would ever even think about not re-signing Abreu, if the contract makes sense.

    He’s Mr. Consistency and seems to always be on base.

    I’d rather have a great offensive player in Abreu that shy’s away from the wall than a mid-level offensive player in Rowand who misses half of a season for breaking his bones running into the wall.

    I give respect to Abreu for being smart. No respect to Rowand and other idiots who always get praised for risking their season running into the wall.

    Just using Rowand as an example. Not saying we are going to deal for him or anything.

    Abreu 2 year contract. I’m all for it.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      I give respect to Abreu for being smart. No respect to Rowand and other idiots who always get praised for risking their season running into the wall.

      You know, there is a happy medium between those two extremes. Nobody’s asking Bobby to break his nose 5 times a year going all out. Just stop being a chickenshit and make a play every now and then.

      Calling Bobby’s wall phobia “being smart” is ridiculous spin.

      • ceciguante

        thank you, tsjc.
        abreu’s a prima donna and a bitch for never putting the team before his own fear of crashing into the wall. that kind of thinking is cancerous to a team. i really hope he’s not a yankee next year, pussyfooting it all over RF again and helping the other team score runs. $16M is a ridiculous salary for someone who never puts the team first. don’t let the door hit you in the ass, bobby.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          Woah, now. I don’t want your thanks to me accompanying that over-the-top diatribe.

          I said that his defensive shortcomings couldn’t be attributed to “being smart”. I also don’t want to be affiliated with your comments that he “never puts the team first.” I’ve never asserted such, and I have no reason to hold ill will against Bobby Abreu. Do I want him to be a better fielder? Yeah, but on the balance, he’s been great for our team, and I’m not going to call him a “primadonna” or a “bitch.”

          I disagree with your post and want no part of it.

          • ceciguante

            where did you get the idea that i was attributing my post to you? ‘cause my post doesn’t say that.

            you might wanna slow down and think a bit more before you run and issue a politician’s retreat for something that had nothing to do with you. sounds kinda paranoid.

            regardless of what you think (i could care less, frankly), i stand behind my post: abreu’s me-first attitude makes him a prima donna and a bitch. i do hold ill will against a guy who makes $16M and is the only OFer i can think of who is scared of hitting the wall.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              Well, you thanked me (for something), and then immediately launched into your point. Kinda makes me look guilty by association.

    • Jose

      Keep going with the players “declines” and asking for “new blood”. It was the set of mind that made Yankees to loose Johan Santana, not reinforce the pitching team and trust in impressive young players like Kennedy or Joba. Results Yankees watch post season from their couches.

      Abreu is trustable, he never gets sick, still making the number and loves to play in pinstripes.

      Lets go Bobby

  • Pingback: Ben on Bobby « iYankees

  • dan

    Since 2005, 50.8% of pitches thrown to Abreu were in the strike zone. In 2005, his last year with the Phillies, that number was 51.7%. In 2007, it was about 48%, and this season it was 52%.

    The change from 07 to 08 represents a total of ~55 pitches. Make of that what you will, I’m not sure if it’s a lot or a little. The change from his career (05 to now) average to his 08 average represents a total of about 14 pitches. That’s pretty small.

    So, Ben, while your claim that, “Pitchers are much more likely to go after Abreu if they have A-Rod up next,” seems to make sense, it’s not supported by the statistics.

    BTW, I don’t know the answer myself.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      So, Ben, while your claim that, “Pitchers are much more likely to go after Abreu if they have A-Rod up next,” seems to make sense, it’s not supported by the statistics.

      I don’t doubt that. It was a theory. Nothing more, nothing less.

  • andrew

    i’m down with abreu for two more years, the man just goes out there every year and puts up numbers, even if they decline over the next two years, i still like him a little more than nady. that being said, bringing abreu back would probably move nady to first which i dont really have a huge problem with
    if the yankees sign tex, there is obviouly no need for abreu, but if tex doesnt come to new york, i think abreu is a good plan

  • Jay Walker

    Here we go Again!!!!! Where is the Youth movement, This page acts like the New York Post one day they say something and the next day they change it. This page advocates for mediocrity not excellency. If we are going to bring Abreu back why not bring Giambi back so that way we have exactly the same mediocre club of last season. Have you ever noticed that Abreu is afraid of the right field wall, have you ever noticed how many balls drop in front of him, have you ever noticed that Yankees haven’t won a world series since 2000 because they fall into the same pattern year by year by bringing players on the downhill side of their careers. In case you forgot Tampa bay just made it to the world and the last time the yankees made it there was 2003. AS A YANKEES FAN IM TIRED OF THE MEDIOCRITY THAT SURROUNDS OUR TEAM. Another thing in another post you mentioned that the yankees should build Around Jeter and A-rod. A-rod is probably the most talented player in the MLB but lets be honest The Guy Sucks when it comes to clutch hitting, just ask yourself this question who you rather have Manny or A-rod in a clutch Situation. In the other hand i love Jeter to death, he’s my favorite Yankee but the guy must get on his gear and be realistic , we all know that he’s well below average in fielding, why not offer your self to be the next first baseman or move the outfield. I’m sorry to say this but CASH MAN sucks when it comes to TRading players, he really does, just go to MLBTR.com and look up for his trading record, the guy is only good at getting scums from other teams. Just look at the package that Oakland gave Colorado for Holliday or look at the nationals trade, is the Bonifacio guy better than Cabrera?. I’m Just tired of seeing other teams win, I was 10 when the Yankees last won the world series.

    • Scott of 3 Kids Tickets

      Can I see your working papers?

      -Scott

      • Jay Walker

        Can I see your Wife Naked?

        • steve (different one)

          you are an idiot.

          • steve (different one)

            mods, feel free to delete this post. i just thought commenting on someone’s wife was uncalled for.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              “Oh yeah? Well.. I had sex with your wife!”
              “His wife is in a coma.”

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      the guy is only good at getting scums from other teams.

      I have David Justice, Bobby Abreu and Alex Rodriguez on the phone for you.

      • Jay Walker

        Yea yea How many world series appearances does the yankees have since acquiring Abreu and A-rod, oops must I remind you that Texas dealt A-rod mostly for salary reasons

        • Mike Pop

          IT was still a great trade to make whether you like it or not.. Without A-Rod we wouldnt have those playoff appearances

        • jsbrendog

          yes but he still proved your uninformed point of cashman being bad at trading wrong. d-e-d dead wrong

    • Ivan

      I guess somebody didn’t take it well that the Yanks didn’t make the postseason this season.

    • whozat

      “I’m Just tired of seeing other teams win, I was 10 when the Yankees last won the world series.”

      There are maybe 10 Cubs fans who were even ALIVE last time they won a world series.

      Count your blessings. And tell us what genius trades you’d be making and how they’d position the franchise over the next five years. Jackson, Hughes and Melancon for one year of Holliday, say? Or were you looking to trade a middle IF prospect the Yankees don’t have for a starter with attitude problems and bad peripherals, plus a mediocre defending corner OFer/1B with back problems that’s no younger than Nady?

    • JeffG

      I think Jay has a good point – fans moan about how Abreau plays the field and moan about how we look old and slow near a Tampa Bay and then turn around and advocate doing nothing to effect change.
      I’m hoping Cashman can surprize us with a trade for someone a little more athletic. Also, as much as Gardners bat may not be somethig to brag about I like the dimention he brings to the team.
      If we pickup CC and Burnett, resign Pettit, I’d be pretty confident that we could lose Abreau and not miss a step. Forget him and the money it would take to sign him.

      • JeffG

        Spend that Money on Texiera if you have it. I’d also be happy with Pavano instead of Burnett if it makes sense.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        fans moan about how Abreau plays the field and moan about how we look old and slow near a Tampa Bay and then turn around and advocate doing nothing to effect change.

        No, Jay doesn’t have a point, and you don’t either, because nothing happens in a vacuum. Things happen in real time, with real scarcity of options.

        Everyone wants to get younger. Nobody wants to bring Abreu back. What Ben is illustrating, quite plainly and clearly, is that while Bobby is obviously not the option we want, he could very easily be the best option for us, his age and decline notwithstanding.

        I don’t see 10 other young outfielders in their prime just sitting on the FA market waiting to be signed, do you?

        • jsbrendog

          circle gets the square. whoopi agrees.

        • Joseph M

          Your right, nothing happens in a vacuum and that was Jay’s point. Abreu is another old player on a team filled with old players. At this point in time the day by day Yankee line up could well include 5 players over the age of 35 and a sixth who will be 34 in July. Teams don’t win with that kind of age in the starting line up. It’s that simple. Look down through the decades and make a list of championship teams that have 6 players in their daily line up over 34. Believe me it will be a short list, a very, very short list.

          The Yankees approach is a a classic recipe for disaster, keep aquiring quality players on the downside of their careers, it’s down the tubes slow but sure. 2003 make the World Series and lose. 2004 make the championship series and lose, 2005 make the division series and lose in 5 games, 2006 make the division series and lose in 4 games, 2007 make the division series, but this time as a wild card lose in 4, miss the post season completely. Like I said down the tubes slow but sure.

          Bobby Abreu could help many clubs the Yankees aren’t one of them.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            Your right, nothing happens in a vacuum and that was Jay’s point.

            Wrong. Jay’s point was “We need to get younger and stop bringing back older, declining players.” Whether or not that point is valid, he was saying this specifically in the context of advocating against Bobby Abreu, an older, declining player. However, he was looking at the issue in a vacuum, because the counterargument is, while we do want to get younger and stop bringing back older, declining, players, in this case, it might be the smartest idea, because there are no younger, non-declining players available at Bobby’s spot who wouldn’t be a drastic step back in productivity. So, while we’d like to adhere to the greater organizational philosophy, real-world actualities prevent us from doing so, because we can’t operate in a vacuum, in a philosophical realm where there are solutions that dovetail nicely with our goals.

            And everything you said is the well-settled facts that speaks nothing to the point of this post. We all know that our current team is old and filled with thirtysomethings. The question at hand is, do we dogmatically stick to our good-intentioned “no thirtysomethings” policy and refuse to bring back Abreu, even if it means a drastically, drastically inferior 2009 and 2010 team? Especially considering that we don’t appear to have a replacement for him in the pipeline? Or, do we temporarily suspend our policy and kick the can down the road a bit, waiting for a better option while still maintaining a competitive team?

            Bobby Abreu could help many clubs the Yankees aren’t one of them.

            That makes no sense. Yes, the Yankees are an old team, but no, Bobby’s help wouldn’t “help” us any less simply because of it. His 296/.371/.471 counts just the same whether he’s on an old Yankees team or a young Marlins team. There’s no “collective oldness of team” penalty. Bobby could help many clubs, and the Yankees are one of them. The question is, can we find a better solution than him, based not on our philosophical desire to have one but based on our actual ability to procure one, right now, in the winter of 2008-2009, using real people and not just avatars?

            • Joseph M

              Tommie, Jay’s point (please read his post again) is this, the Yankees can’t bring Abreu back because the rest of the team is old and past it’s prime. The team can’t win a championship (and I think that’s the point) with a line up full of 35 year olds. No team has or can. The Yanks have Nady for right let’s see what he can do. A few weeks ago there was a discussion about trying to get Cameron to play center (36 years old), would he be an upgrade over Gardner and Melky, probably, but it’s just not that simple. Teams with this much age won’t win and you can take that to the bank.

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                All of what you said is true. Jay’s argument is still flawed because he’s not looking at real-world options.

                The team can’t win a championship (and I think that’s the point) with a line up full of 35 year olds. No team has or can…Teams with this much age won’t win and you can take that to the bank.

                That’s not true. Just because something hasn’t happened before doesn’t mean it won’t happen in the future. I agree with you that it’s unlikely, but us signing Bobby Abreu to a two year deal does not automatically mean we are contractually barred from competing in the 2009 World Series because we have too many 35-year olds.

        • JeffG

          “Bobby is obviously not the option we want, he could very easily be the best option for us” – Boy lets get down to semantics… he is not the player you want but the best option… OK, let me rephrase, thinking he is the best option is stupid, that is the point.

          • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

            What’s a better option of realistically available options?

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            OK, let me rephrase, thinking he is the best option is stupid, that is the point.

            Why is thinking that a bad option could theoretically be your best option really that hard to grasp?

            In September, Carl Pavano was a really, really bad option, but our other options were Sidney Ponson and Darrell Rasner. Hence, we made the best of a bad situation and went with Pavano.

            Now, Abreu is a much better option than Pavano, relative to the situations. He’s not the option any of us truly wants, but based on how things shake out this winter (i.e., whether Manny’s available, what the cost is on Hermida, whether Bobby would consent to a two year deal instead of a three year deal, etc.) , he could easily turn out to be the best of all our suboptimal options, the lesser of many evils.

            And people, please, we can have a strategy and an organizational vision and occasionally deviate from it without the strategy/vision being irrevocably undermined and destroyed. Show some perspective and realize that each decision lives both in the short-term and long term, and most decisions are careful balancing acts between the risks taken ad the risks averted.

            • JeffG

              “Why is thinking that a bad option could theoretically be your best option really that hard to grasp?”
              Your brilliant theory was really hard to grasp… until that wonderful Pavano explaination. Thank you.
              First off – God you are arrogant. Second it seems to me that I can understand and perhaps even appreciate what Ben is trying to say but disagree.
              The point that Jay made and I agree with is that Bobby is not our best option. Why is that so hard to understand?
              If you don’t want guys that are aging and play crap defense don’t resign them. Especially when we already have three corner outfielders. I’d rather see us use the guys we have and go after Texiera. In my humble opinion making a humble point.
              But then again Jay and I “do not have a point.”

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                The point that Jay made and I agree with is that Bobby is not our best option. Why is that so hard to understand?

                Because that’s not what you were saying. What you were saying is that he cannot possibly be our best option, simply because he’s 35. That’s not an opinion that he isn’t our best option (an opinion that you’re entitled to and one that I partially agree with), that’s a statement of fact that can’t be questioned and it’s inflexible thinking that we shouldn’t be engaging in, IMO.

                You may call me arrogant, but in this dialogue, you’re the one conflating personal opinions with unquestionable facts. I’m saying that things aren’t that cut and dried.

    • steve (different one)

      Just look at the package that Oakland gave Colorado for Holliday

      what about it? it was a pretty significant package. not sure what you are getting at.

      is the Bonifacio guy better than Cabrera?.

      Cabrera is arbitration eligible. just based on that, the Marlins would have ZERO interest. zero.

      do you have any other bright ideas?

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

        “is the Bonifacio guy better than Cabrera?.”

        Cabrera is arbitration eligible. just based on that, the Marlins would have ZERO interest. zero.
        Yes.

        Fixed.

  • bg90027

    If I were Cashman, If I could sign Abreu for $13-15 million per year for 2 years I’d do it. If it took a 3rd year vesting option based on really solid performance, I’d probably cave on that as well. If he needs a 3 year or more guaranteed contract, I’d let him walk and take the draft picks. If I could sign Abreu, I’d trade Matsui even if all I could get for him was a bag of peanuts and install Abreu as DH.

    Yes, the yankees need to get younger and no I wouldn’t want to watch Abreu’s timid play around the wall in the OF anymore. He’s one of the more consistent hitters for NY and one of the more patient hitters in the league. I think its hard to lose both Abreu and Giambi and I’d like to keep Abreu if possible as the DH.

    I’d also much rather sign Abreu short term and live with a lesser offensive 1B than let Abreu walk and commit 7+ years to Mark Texeira. Yes signing Tex would get us younger in the short term but it would be making the same sort of mistakes the Yankees have in the past. Someone is going to overpay for Tex both in salary and years, let it be another team.

    • whozat

      I don’t consider 7 years to Tex to be making the “same mistake”. You get four solid years of prime ballplayer, and he has a skillset that ages pretty well after that. And he plays a position where a degradation in defense in years 5-6-7 isn’t THAT big a deal. It’s not like this guy is Giambi redux…his D is FAR better, and he doesn’t have the specter of steroid-induced ligament issues looming in his future.

      Abreu’s falling off a cliff. His defense is a disaster of epic proportions already. It’s not just the wall, it’s the gaps and balls in front of him too. It gave back a LOT of his value. If he accepted arbitration, I’d be ok with that. But I really, really don’t want him after next season. I’d rather have Nady’s 110 OPS+ with league-average D than Abreu.

      • Steve

        Agree 100%. Plus, I’d suggest people look at Nady’s past 3 seasons and not just 2008. He went from being a platoon player who couldn’t hit righties to an everyday player who hits righties better than lefties.

        Now last year may have been a career year, he did have a dramatic spike in the first half of the season. But the past 3 years show that he is a steadily improving player and I think you can expect a little more than his career averages going forward.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      f I were Cashman, If I could sign Abreu for $13-15 million per year for 2 years I’d do it.

      Me too. However, I’d rather do 7/140 for Tex and/or 4/100 for Manny than 2/30 for Abreu. Tex is younger, a plus defender, and a switch hitter, and plays a position that ages well and won’t need to be moved to DH. And Manny >>> Abreu. If I’m going to pay 13-16M for a defensively challenged outfield bat, I’d rather get a defensively challenged bat that can OPS+ 1.000 instead of just .850. Manny’s bat is worth the extra 10M AAV, and he’s actually a better fielder than Abreu, as shocking as that sounds.

  • bg90027

    If i resigned Abreu, it would be to DH not play OF. I’d play Nady in right and I’d trade Matsui for whatever I could get for him and even then I’d not want to commit more than 2 years to Abreu. And I wouldn’t worry that much about Tex’s defense in years 5-7, I’d worry about his offense. He’s really not an elite hitter even now and he’ll likely be a shadow of himself in five to seven years. Personally, I don’t think 1B is a position you should ever sign someone to a big long term contract for unless its a very rare Albert Pujols type player. By same mistake, I didn’t mean that he’s another Giambi. I meant by year 3, we’d be probably be paying more than he was worth and the divide would grow with each year. We all say we want to get younger and then somehow we want to commit to Tex until he’s at least 36 and maybe 39 depending on the years it would take. Its not a smart move.

    • Steve

      . . . because what this team needs right now, more than anything else, is another DH.

      Even if we could trade Matsui for a deal that makes sense (which we cant) Girardi likes to keep the DH spot open to give his regulars a half day off and get the bench players involved. Spreading the workload around keeps the regulars at 100% and keeps the bench guys sharp. Its the same theory he used with the bullpen, which performed very well.

      • AndrewYF

        If a team resigned Abreu, he’d be a DH no matter what your intentions are.

        He was one of the worst fielders of any position in the game last year.

        Abreu is a DH.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      And I wouldn’t worry that much about Tex’s defense in years 5-7, I’d worry about his offense. He’s really not an elite hitter even now and he’ll likely be a shadow of himself in five to seven years.

      That’s a flat out, unadulterated lie. And, a poor prediction.

      Personally, I don’t think 1B is a position you should ever sign someone to a big long term contract for unless its a very rare Albert Pujols type player.

      Don Mattingly and Tino Martinez say hello.

    • steve (different one)

      Personally, I don’t think 1B is a position you should ever sign someone to a big long term contract for unless its a very rare Albert Pujols type player.

      can we please stop using Albert Pujols as some sort of measuring stick for 1Bmen??

      Albert Pujols is a HISTORIC talent. he is going to end up as one of the 20 best hitters in the history of the game (and i think that is shortchanging him a bit, but that’s not the argument i want to get into).

      ASIDE FROM PUJOLS, Teixeira is the best 1Bman in the game.

      i have no idea where this idea that Teixeira is not an elite hitter is coming from.

      there is a TON of room between “Not Pujols” and “Not Elite”.

      Teixeira is elite. he’s not Pujols, but no one is.

  • RollingWave

    unless your showhow going to remove Matsui, then this makes little sense.

    He’s still a decent bat, but his glove is truely flawed at this stage. to the point where it is costing Yankees a serious amount of wins. while i’m not advocating that we start playing all glove – no hit guys, we really should stop throwing complete butchers out there regardless of the situation, it is partially our luck that the two biggest butcher this season is gone and amazingly the 3rd seem to be hearing the message and actually showed some improvements (according to PMR anyway). it’s time to start changing around.

    Me? I’d see if I can flip Damon+ for Swisher. then I’d go ahead with a Swisher / Melky or Gardner / Nady OF , it’s a not a good short term soluation, though not neccasirly worse than the alternatives. it’s also at least average defensively. then we can hope that Jackson moves into CF, and the FAs comming up in the OF after 09 makes a lot more sense. (Holliday, Bay, Winn, Crawford)

    The other way around might work too if Swisher isn’t avalible or the scouts see’s something wrong with him, flip Gardner + IPK for Brian Giles for example. or something a bit less for Randy Winn, then we cross our finger in 09 with a Winn or Giles / Damon / Nady OF.

    What I’m basically pointing out is that, this year’s OF FA solution is pretty poor. but we need to make some changes, the best idea is to try and find reasonablly good guys that won’t leave you stuck for a long while.

  • Rob

    I’d rather have Manny – better numbers, same defense, cover for the sensitive 3Bman. More money, sure, but seeing Manny hit four times is worth the price of admission.

    • Steve

      Besides all of the off the field garbage that comes with Manny, Girardi has made it clear he wants guys who can play both sides of the game. Field their position as well as perform at the plate. He doesn’t like one-dimensional players. Manny doesn’t fit his profile.

      • http://www.freewebs.com/ps3tf2/ Double-J

        I think his point was that Manny provides somewhat comparable defensive skills while providing (substantially) better offense. I too would rather see Manny here rather than bringing Abreu back.

        If that’s the case, then I don’t think Abreu really fits into Girardi’s profile either, since outside of his decent arm, he is a pretty mediocre-at-best defensive outfielder.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        Besides all of the off the field garbage that comes with Manny, Girardi has made it clear he wants guys who can play both sides of the game. Field their position as well as perform at the plate. He doesn’t like one-dimensional players. Manny doesn’t fit his profile.

        Neither does Bobby Abreu, Johnny Damon, or Hideki Matsui, but at least Manny’s offensive game hasn’t started it’s decline into obscurity yet.

        • Steve

          Right, and those were all Torre-era guys that Girardi inherited. He had nothing to do with getting any of them. Those guys will slowly be phased out, and the Girardi type players will be moved in.

  • Steve

    “Since arriving in New York, past his peak, at age 32, Abreu’s walk rate has dropped, while on the Yanks, from a walk every 7.5 BB in his first two months in the Bronx in 2006 to once every 8.3 PAs in 2007 to once every 9.4 PAs in 2008.”

    Apples to apples, please. If were going to include 2006, lets use his full season stats as we did in 2007 and 2008. He walked 138 times in 639 PA, which is one walk every 4.63 PAs. So the numbers should read

    2006 1 BB every 4.63 PA

    2007 1 BB every 8.30 PA

    2008 1 BB every 9.40 PA

    which again, shows he’s walking half as much as he used to, which is a very steep and dramatic decline. That’s what concerns me about Bobby. Let someone else have him penciled in if/when his bat slows down further and his production falls off a cliff.

    Now, he may be the type of player who can maintain his production somewhat and have a more slow, steady decline as he ages. He is more of a contact hitter than a classic power hitter. But then you look at his career strikeout rates and find they are surprisingly high, the ones you’d expect to see from a slugger.

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/a/abreubo01.shtml

    He’s never struck out less than 100 times in any season, and has often been in the high 130’s. That leads be to believe his decline will be more Toby Harrah and less Tim Raines. I’ll pass.

  • Steve S

    I like Abreu but I think he is going to require 3 years at around $16M per. And that may be a conservative estimate because there are a couple of teams who need his services (see the Mets and Cubs). Its a tough call because the Yankees are going to need a corner outfielder badly after next year and there appears to a barren market for guys like him. I just think they would be making the decision based on next year and they would be getting diminished returns. I know the stats are indicative of certain things but the greatest indicator is that he is crossing that age 35 barrier and in the “post-steroid” era, his abilities will continue to regress especially if you need a four year contract. And while it doesnt look great now, corner outfielders are easier to come by. Next year you could have Holliday available who is a better player, regardless of the Coors effect, and is younger. There might also be a distinct possibility that one of the outfield positions could be filled by DJ in 2010/2011. Xavier Nady might be the lesser player of the two but he can produce (not like Bobby) and will be much cheaper at least for next year. And if you can supplement at first with a guy like Texeira, who is the better player, both now and long term, then you can live with Nady in right for one year.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      Xavier Nady might be the lesser player of the two but he can produce (not like Bobby) and will be much cheaper at least for next year.

      And, the offense you lose between Bobby and Nady is offset by the improvement in defense. And, we get the bonus of the two draft picks when Bobby signs elsewhere.

      • Steve S

        Amen.

      • Steve S

        And I will say this reading the comments. the concern shouldnt be who hits in front of Arod, the concern should be who hits behind Arod, if we are going to concern ourselves with the makeup of the lineup. Lest be honest they lsoe nothing if Arod hits third and you have Posada or optimally Manny or Tex hitting fourth.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          All the more reason Tex should be the clear priority over all other offensive options (Manny, Abreu, etc.): Tex is a switch hitter and would provide optimal protection behind ARod in that he can be a lefty to keep the heart of the order effective against both lefties and righties.

          I’d love to have:
          1-DH-Damon L
          2-SS-Jeter R
          3-3B-ARod R
          4-1B-Texy S
          5-LF-Manny R
          6-C-Posada S
          7-2B-Cano L
          8-RF-Nady R
          9-CF-Gardner L

          • Steve S

            I have to admit I wasnt keen on Tex, but the more you examine it the more he makes too much sense. yes the contract is a not optimal but its free agency, you hardly ever get a good deal when dealing with free agents. And I dont think you even need to take the step of adding Manny and see if Matsui can be a serviceable as the DH. But Manny would be nice.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              Four years of Manny in the heart of our order >>>> one year of Matsui in the bottom of our order, followed by searching in vain for another bat next offseason

          • Steve S

            You see on MLB trade rumors that Hermida might be available. I wonder if they would do it for say Veras and Mcallister? Hermida is the type of player they should take a flier on, especially at this point.

            • Mike Pop

              Would he go for that cheap ? I do like Z-Mac.. Id rather give up Kennedy to be honest.. Isnt Hermida’s upside as an outfielder higher than Kennedy’s upside as a starting pitcher ? Plus Hermida is cheap and could fill in for our outfield over the next couple years but you have to put in play if you think he is going to perform or not

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              That’s the first proposal I’ve seen on here that I think the Marlins would actually consider, and I’d consider it too. Well done, Steve.

              Veras + McAllister for Hermida is doable.

              • steve (different one)

                i know they just traded Jacobs for a reliever, but i don’t see Veras as a player that would interest the Marlins at all.

                they are obviously punting on the next 2 seasons, so i don’t see why they would want another middle reliever who will get expensive when they start to compete again.

                they’d probably want another, higher ceiling arm.

                JMO though.

                • Steve S

                  I only brought him up because it looks as though Kevin Gregg is about to go. I figure they would want some volume out there and Veras is the type of arm they like. I see your point though. I will say this though Hermida’s value did take a hit this year because he had a down/bad year in his first “full” season. And I dont think they are punting on the next two seasons. I dont really get the Willingham/Olsen trade but (this is only because of fantasy). Their rotation is going to be young and very good and very cheap:

                  Josh Johnson
                  Chris Volstad
                  Anibal Sanchez
                  Ricky Nolasco
                  Andrew Miller

                  They are holding on to Uggla and Ramirez. They have Cantu for third or first. They have Cameron Maybin who looked like he was improving at the end of the year. And they have Dallas Mcphearson (who appears healthy) and could put up better numbers than jacobs anyway (hell walk a lot more). And they have Lindstrom ready to close. That bullpen might be their only soft spot. A guy like Veras or say Bruney could be a nice addition for them- especially in the Kevin Towers bullpen buidling model.

                • steve (different one)

                  perhaps. i thought i read that Uggla was on the block.

                  but you could be right.

                • Steve S

                  I was looking. Its unclear so maybe they are cashing in

                  http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/10/uggla-trade-unl.html

                • Steve S

                  Its only speculation by Buster Olney

                • steve (different one)

                  i retract the word “obviously” from my post. they Marlins are “possibly” punting….

                • Steve S

                  Agreed, I dont really get into the trade speculation stuff but that one seemed like it fit.

          • Mike Pop

            We should just sign both Manny and Tex and go for whoever is the cheapest SP our of Lowe, Sheets, or Burnett.. Would give us that crazy lineup with a rotation of Wang Joba Pettite one of those 3 and Hughes or Mussina.. I just think it would be more fun to watch that lineup but I guess we do really need pitching more but I wouldnt be opposed to missing out on CC if we get both Manny and Tex

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              Why do Manny + Tex + Burnett/Sheets/Lowe? If we’re going to sign three, just do Manny + Tex + CC. You’re only talking about what, 5-8M more per year between CC and one of the lesser three pitchers?

              Go all in.

              • Mike Pop

                Is it realistic though ? Getting all 3 with all the other teams bidding for them..cough the nationals

                • Mike Pop

                  I mean adding 3 100 plus million dollar contracts in one year. That would be awesome

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  We have 135M in AAV coming off the books in the next 24 months.

  • DonnieBaseballHallofFame

    We NEED to sign MANNY!

  • RollingWave

    IF we somehow could dump Matsui without eatting Money, I’d sign up for Manny too.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      Manny’s worth it, regardless of whether or not we’re able to dump Matsui. He just is.

      It’s one year at 13M. Matsui is such a non-factor in all this that it’s silly for it to be the holdup for anything. Either he helps, he doesn’t, he’s traded, he’s not, we don’t care.

      2009 Hideki Matsui = 2008 Carl Pavano

      • radnom

        2009 Hideki Matsui = 2008 Carl Pavano

        I hope this was a joke but I have a horrible feeling you were serious.
        Come on now.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          I’m serious, in that whatever good stuff we get from them is good, but their presence on the team (or lack thereof) shouldn’t factor into our larger organizational decision making process as to how best to assemble our 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 etc. teams, because they’re both short-term players who will soon be gone, so while they may have sizeable 2009 salaries, their salaries are all-but irrelevant. Having Carl Pavano’s 2008 11M salary on the books shouldn’t have factored into how we assembled our pitching staff, and Hideki Matsui’s 13M salary for 2009 shouldn’t factor into how we construct our offense, because they’re sunk costs that we can’t change and they’ll be gone in a year in any event.

          That’s all I was saying. It’s not a prediction of effectiveness.

          • radnom

            Pavano was rehabing all through 2008 while Matsui is going to start the year healthy.
            Last year the Yankees could not write into their plans that Pavano would be back in August/Sept. to shore up the rotation but this year the Yankees can (and are at the moment) pencil Matsui in to be solid in the DH role.
            I think Matsui 2009 = Giambi going into 2008 is a better analogy.
            Both were injury risks but were also healthy to start the season, had one final year left, and are counted on as being part of the team.

            Just because Matsui is gone after this year doesn’t mean you should completely disregard him when constructing the offense, you could say the same thing about Damon then.

            In terms of looking foward, yes obviously you don’t let Matsui prevent you from making a move that will help the team for 4-5 years but you could say the same about Damon or Nady….and in constructing the 2009 team you certainly don’t completely disregard him.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              n terms of looking foward, yes obviously you don’t let Matsui prevent you from making a move that will help the team for 4-5 years but you could say the same about Damon or Nady….and in constructing the 2009 team you certainly don’t completely disregard him.

              That’s all I was saying. Don’t let Matsui, or Damon, or Nady’s presence on the roster stop you from making a move for the good of this team, even if it forces someone to sit.

              That’s all I was saying. I know Pavano carries a lot of peripheral baggage so perhaps he was too loaded to serve as a good metaphor. My bad.

              • radnom

                Eh, its still a huge stretch to say any of those three guys should sit.

                I know you love Manny, but there is no one out there right now that you *have* to sign that would be a contract that I would actually want to have. In all I cases I would see it as, “well I guess we could take this guy, because we have no other option (see the article we are commenting on)”.

                Given that, I don’t see why we should be looking to replace these guys while they are still under contract.
                If Vlad in his prime was a free agent this year, different story.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  If we have three spots for the foursome of Manny, Matsui, Damon, and Nady, is it really a “huge” stretch to say that any of those three should sit?

                  Particularly when any of the last three could probably easily be traded, since they’re all in their walk years?

  • http://bronxstop.blogspot.com Mark M.

    It was a mistake with Bernie and it will be a mistake with Bobby.

    Everyone wants stability and consistency for the Yankees, but they don’t want the only player that provided that last year.

    • steve (different one)

      what was a mistake? letting Bernie walk?

      are you serious?

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        I think he’s saying it was a mistake to NOT let Bernie walk. We kept him too long.

        • steve (different one)

          i thought that’s what he meant at first, but then i don’t think that fits with his second sentence.

          if i am reading it wrong, i apologize to Mark.

          • Steve S

            I think you have it right SDO, the second sentence is suggesting that Bobby Abreu was the most consistent player on the team last year and therefore the Yankees shouldnt let him walk.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            Yeah, you’ve got a point. It’s a bit ambiguous, just like Ace and Gary.

            • Steve S

              Or Don Draper

  • Tim Q. Mills

    I say let him walk. I’d rather play the younger Nady and see what happens if he or Matsui hits in front of ARod. With the picks we will get for letting Marte go and from Abreu we can load up on youth.

    • Kay Sturns

      INDEED: take the picks. matsui, alex, nady, 1B, jopo? is a good middle of the lineup; def sufficient enough if we get CC’s services.

  • Axl

    It’s not just Bobby Abreu’s walk rate that’s been down though. The entire teams walk rate has been down. Giambi’s has declined (and maybe risen again last year..but still) and the entire offense as a whole for everybody has been inconsistent.

    The Yankees have never hit “rookie” pitching well…and lately there has been an albatross of rookies coming up and pitching for teams…hence the Yankees woes increasing at an exponential rate…which isn’t the full reason but certainly helps contribute to the Yankees offensive decline…not having a full known report on these young kids…

    It’s kind of hard to claim that as players get older…they lose their eye or decline in OBP and just hack away…if anything you would think it would increase with experience. I don’t think he knew what he was doing a few years ago and then just “forgot” how to take pitches as well…it’s far different than hitting home runs…that decline makes sense. OBP is a little harder to grasp.

    We lost out on Matsui and Posada and replaced them with significantly lower OBP and RBI guys…while these guys might be back healthy (but for how long?) how are we going to lose 2 of our best OBP (4.33 pitches per at bat in Giambi and Abrea a piece) and replace these guys with nobodies?!? We’re going to see a SIGNIFICANT decrease in offense yet again.

    I say re-sign Abreu unless we can get somebody who is equivalent…which isn’t likely. And since we probably won’t be getting Teixeira…as terrible as it sounds…and as much as I couldn’t wait til the day when we got rid of him…we might have to re-sign Giambi too…I don’t like the idea of having Teixeira AND Arod for 10 years into their 40’s for 20+ million a piece. Maybe you do…

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      And since we probably won’t be getting Teixeira…

      Can we at least wait until real offers come out later this week before we start with the doom and gloom?

      I don’t like the idea of having Teixeira AND Arod for 10 years into their 40’s for 20+ million a piece.

      Considering that they’re both great athletes, great defenders, and great hitters with good batting eyes and good OBP skills, and not huge steroid risks like Giambi, Bonds, Sosa, and the other offensive superstars whose careers fell of a cliff for obvious reasons, yeah, I’m not super worried.

      • Mike Pop

        Signing Tex can possibly give us the best infield in baseball right ? The Phillies are up there too but Tex, Cano, Jeter, A-Rod.. Probably the best offensive infield in the American League right

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          Tex-Cano-Jeter-ARod >>>>> Howard-Utley-Rollins-PEDRO FELIZ

          • Mike Pop

            Who has the better defense ?

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

              Meh, probably the Phillies. But Feliz is basically all-glove, no-stick, so that helps.

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

                Not probably, definitely. Feliz and Utley are world-class fielders at their position, and Rollins is excellent at well. They make up for Howard’s defensive suckiness.

        • Axl

          Statistically, while the left side of the infield is the most expensive in baseball…defensively it’s average at best…at least “range-wise”. Robinson Cano is a very good defender although he’s cocky and his non-chalant attitude causes him to make bone head plays and cost us the game from time to time. The right side of the infield would definitely be one of the best…and having Teixeira’s rake at 1B would definitely improve the Arod and Jeter throwing errors…

          • Mike Pop

            A couple years ago I thought they were both better than average on D, and even last year.. But I don’t look at all the defensive stats like zone rating and all… Also maybe I get hyped up evertime Michael Kay screams about a “great play” when Jeter turns a double play or makes a throw to first base

      • Axl

        Rumors are the Nationals were going to offer Teixeira 10 yrs at 200MM. No thanks.

        And in the same breath…the guys on here are saying age is declining Abreu’s OBP…so why not Teixeiras? And who’s to say he’s going to stay healthy?

        So 130+MM for Sabathia…nearly 200MM for Teixeira…how much to we splurge on Lowe/Sheets/Burnett? Hopefully Lowe is NOT one of the options…

        Too much money and too many years…you’d think we’d learn our lesson offering so many years to so many people…they’ll just get old like they are now and eventually decline…like they have been or will soon at least…

        • steve (different one)

          And in the same breath…the guys on here are saying age is declining Abreu’s OBP…so why not Teixeiras?

          because Teixeira is SIX years younger than Abreu?

          i cannot fathom this idea that we shouldn’t give Teixeira a long term contract for his age 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34 seasons because of what has happened with Giambi, Abreu, etc.

          yes, i don’t think i’d want to give him a 10 year contract. you have a point there.

          but 7 or 8 years? this is the guy you take that kind of risk for.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            Or, because Teixeira is likely entering his peak, and Bobby is leaving it?

            Look, everybody ages and everybody declines. The only way to avoid this is to try and get players before they’ve aged too much and before they start their decline. Everybody knows this, including players, which is why they ask for 5 and 10 year deals: they want you to pay for part of their decline years in exchange for getting their productive years. This is the price you pay, but there’s no way around it.

            We deal in the real world. Texy at 7 years is way smarter than Bobby for 2 or 3, because we know we’re getting at least 4-5 good years out of that Texy deal. We may not get any good years out of the Abreu deal.

          • Axl

            Yeah, and Abreu has been declining since we got him at 32.

            So we’ll have 3 years of solid OBP until he reaches 32 and then he’ll exponentially decline then on instead?

            And this is assuming he stays healthy and following the same exact path Abreu has…

            I’m not against getting Tex…I’m just not a fan of long term heavy contracts…

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

              Can we not play fast and loose with the facts here?

              Abreu’s OBP, by full season, since 2006: .424 (career high), .369, .371.

              That’s not exponential decline. It’s a dip that’s remained steady.

        • RollingWave

          the Nats just traded for Josh Willingham, who happens to be a 1B, so i’m guess that they won’t be signing Teix , then again, maybe they’re going for the Yankee philosophy, I mean they alreayd have like 5 1B on that team. (and they range from half decent, good in the rare occasions he’s not hurt, fatso who occasionally have a good year, and maniac rapest. to Wily Mo Pena)

          • steve (different one)

            Josh Willingham has a career total of 3 innings played at 1B.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            Josh Willingham, career games played at 1B: 2
            Josh Willingham, career games played in OF: 371

            Josh Willingham is a 1B in the way that Xavier Nady is a 1B. Actually, less so.

            • steve (different one)

              too slow suckah!!!!!

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                Newman!!!

    • steve (different one)

      considering Teixeira is 28, i don’t think the Yankees will be giving him a 12 year contract.

  • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

    and lately there has been an albatross of rookies coming up and pitching for teams…

    [facepalm]

    • radnom

      hahaha who said that?

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    • Axl

      I don’t get it…

      If you’re going to be a dick…at least make sense being so…

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        That’s exactly what I’m poking fun at you for. For not making sense.

        There’s no such thing as an “albatross” of something happening, like an “albatross of rookies coming up and pitching for teams”. An albatross is a burden or an obstacle of fate that one seemingly cannot escape. It’s not simply a high frequency, as you described.

        There may be a “plethora” of rookies coming up and pitching for teams (there’s not, at least no more than normal), and the Yankees “albatross” may be our inability to hit rookie pitchers (it probably is), but either way, you totally mangled that.

        Hence, facepalm.

        • Axl

          How is it not a burden? I’m well aware of what it means. I don’t understand why you’re picking apart grammar on a message board. I didn’t know “context” was going to be graded while talking about sports on a blog.

          Can I assume you were severely beaten when in high school?

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            Yes, the old “Pay no attention to the fact that I have no idea how to speak intelligently, YOU’RE A NERD WHO GOT BEAT UP IN HIGH SCHOOL!!!!

            LOSER !!!!1!!1!!!1!!!!

            Say hi the the boys at Alpha Beta for me.

            http://images.chron.com/blogs/blog9/ogre03.jpg

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            How is it not a burden? I’m well aware of what it means.

            If you’re well aware of what it means, why don’t you try using it correctly? Might help.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            I didn’t know “context” was going to be graded while talking about sports on a blog.

            Sarah Palin probably didn’t know “context” was going to be picked apart on the campaign trail.

            • Axl

              Wow. I hit a nerve huh? 3 posts of anger. Tell me, Einstein…why don’t you use your “wits” for something more useful…something tells me that you correcting message board blogs isn’t going to help pay your mortgage…

              And the beauty of the blog and message board is I can say use any word I wish any way I want…

              Well…at least until a Steve Urkel like yourself comes in and decides to play the Hitler of the boards at least…

              • Axl

                Oops I forgot the “/” in between “say” and “use”!!!

                I’m a loser! What is wrong with me!!! LMFAO

                Get a life dude…it’s not my fault you’re an angry man

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  I’m Hitler, Steve Urkel, Einstein, and I was severely beaten, and yet I’m the one who has anger issues.

                  Look. You fucked up. It made me laugh, and I commented on it. You then called me names, so I called you names, and you called me names. Doesn’t change the fact that you sound like a dumbass. Maybe if you fixed that, you wouldn’t open yourself up to ridicule.

                • Axl

                  Why should I fix irrelevant context issues on a baseball blog?? Had I known that you were standing so high on the pedestal above us all…I may have taken the time to change things…no wait…I still don’t care.

                  You sit on the sidelines and chime in with unrelated corrections to make yourself look all high and mighty. Sounds to me like you’re a tad insecure and you pounce on innocent others when they make the slightest mistake to reassure yourself that you’re “superior”. This might be the result of having your head flushed in the toilet in your younger years…I don’t know…

                  My suggestion is that you stick to the topics at hand…and as much as the slightest irrelevant mistake bothers you on this board…question whether it’s necessary to veer off on a tangent about it…

                  I’m sure you’ll find that the answer is it’s not…

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  I wasn’t correcting it. I was laughing at it. Because it’s funny, in an idiotically pathetic way. Listening to you speak is like watching Cops. I’m laughing at it because you’re not me.

                  For a man so convinced that I’m doing this because of an insecurity, you sure seem insecure about your inability to speak/write proper english. A person secure in their intelligence would have simply said “whoops, my bad” instead of leaping into fantastical tirades about the validity or invalidity of legible communication on a “sports blog” (as if speaking about sports is a license for knuckle-dragging idiocy) or unenlightened speculation about my upbringing.

                  In attempting to question my security, you expose your own. I was civil (if snarky). You were rude. Now you’re obsessed, on a level unmatched by my fairly innocuous comment.

                  Check yourself.

                • Axl

                  I said one thing that you took out of context…and because of that…you’re equating it to a Cops episode? You make about as much sense as your ego allows…
                  You’re right…I usually get insecure when I’m on a baseball blog and people anonymously hide behind their computer correcting grammar…

                  I don’t recall any other mistakes being made…so unless you’ve never made a mistake in your lifetime (which I’m sure you’ve made several…) the fact that you’ve jumped down my throat in oefforts to “look good” on a message boards speaks volumes…

                  What are you trying to prove? You’ve already successfully labeled yourself as the “message board bully”…standing high and mighty above everyone else. What more were you looking for? Perhaps just the sound of another toilet flush…

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  I said one thing that you took out of context…

                  Bullshit. Pure, hot bullshit. You didn’t say something I “took out of context”, you said some dumb shit that didn’t make sense. You totally mangled the English language, and I pointed it out because it made me laugh. If you think that’s “taking things out of context”, then not only do you not know how to use the albatross idiom, you don’t know what context is either. You’re digging yourself deeper.

                  And yes, of course I’ve made mistakes. I’ve made them on this page. When I did, I APOLOGIZED AND TOOK IT LIKE A MAN. When you did, and you were called on it, you acted like a whiny baby, claiming that you’re the victim of my evil, meanspirited slings and arrows. I only jumped down your throat when you jumped down mine.

                  I’m not trying to prove shit. You keep trying to prove shit about me, and you’re failing miserably. I was just being silly and laughing at some silly shit. I have the ability to laugh at myself, you apparently don’t. Perhaps you’re the one who should “anonymously hide behind your computer.”

                  You’re the one who made this a big deal. Not me. All I did was laugh at what you said. A big man could take that. You apparently can’t.

                  Again, check yourself.

                  I’m done.

                • Axl

                  What am I “checking”? The fact that you’re a pompous message board geek? It’s been checked…

                  I questioned how my mistake was relevant…I questioned why you felt it necessary to attack an innocent fellow Yankees fan for no reason…

                  Your answer was “it make me laugh”, So laugh like a fool behind your computer and coke bottle glasses as it’s not necessary to comment on it on a blog. This isn’t “The English Language Blues”.

                  Your attempts at back-pedaling after already making yourself look like a haughty douche bag aren’t working. It’s already inevitable, you’re an insecure portentous asshole who tries to impress others by throwing around “corrections”.

                  This has nothing to do with baseball or the Yankees…

                  Do you even have a purpose other than “Grammar Police”? If so, I haven’t seen it yet…

                  FLUSH FLUSH

                • Axl

                  End of convo…hatchet buried.

                • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=15305165&ref=profile Doug

                  That was a veritable albatross of hostility on display right there. Glad to see it’s over.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  Touché.

              • Andy In Sunny Daytona

                Einstein was a theoretical physicist, not an English teacher.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                  Andy, since you’re in Daytona, you missed this, but there was an incident at a highschool in Westchester a few months back (don’t ask me what, I don’t remember), but the ABC affiliate interviewed some of the kids, and there was a 15-year old kid named “Einstein Albert”.

                  I shit you not. That’s the most awesome name ever. If my last name was Albert, I’d name my kid Einstein too. If my last name was Stephen, I’d name my kid Hawking.

                • Steve S

                  And that is child abuse.

                • Andy In Sunny Daytona

                  That’s putting a lot of pressure on the kid to be smart. I guess he could always work at the bagel shop if academics don’t work out.

  • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

    Some significant names on the Hot Stove, in order of pitches seen per plate appearance, 2008 (among qualifiers):

    1. Nick Swisher 4.51
    3. Adam Dunn 4.32
    4. Bobby Abreu 4.29
    5. Jason Giambi 4.29
    10. Mike Cameron 4.21
    13. Pat Burrell 4.18
    14. Casey Blake 4.17
    20. Rickie Weeks 4.14
    22. Jeremy Hermida 4.11
    23. Johnny Damon 4.10
    37. Milton Bradley 3.99
    38. Nate McLouth 3.99
    45. J.J. Hardy 3.97
    54. Mark Teixeira 3.92
    55. Manny Ramirez 3.92
    63. Raul Ibanez 3.89
    66. Alex Rodriguez 3.88 (for reference)
    67. Matt Holliday 3.87
    79. Felipe Lopez 3.82
    100. Brian Giles 3.71
    107. Mike Jacobs 3.67
    111. Garrett Atkins 3.65
    119. Willy Taveras 3.59
    126. Aaron Rowand 3.56
    132. Magglio Ordoñez 3.52
    134. Jeff Francoeur 3.49
    137. Yunel Escobar 3.47
    142. Robinson Cano 3.35
    146. Bengie Molina 3.18
    147. Yuniesky Betancourt 3.15 (last among qualifiers)

  • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

    FWIW, Jeremy Hermida’s 2.22 RF was 6th among all big league rightfielders (behind Winn, Pence, Markakis, Ludwick, and Gross), and his .924 ZR was second (behind only Gross’s .925).

    Abreu was a 1.92 and a .795 (11th and 14th, respectively), btw.

    • Ivan

      I been telling guys that Hermida would be a good fit for the yanks.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        I thought he may be too expensive, but it looks like Florida isn’t asking for much in exchange for their arb guys, so with a lowered price, I’m intrigued now.

        I always liked him, just didn’t want to pay a lot of prospects.

        • Steve S

          Cosign and for the right prospects I would take him.

        • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

          If they trade Hermida after dealing Willingham, who the hell is going to play the corners for them? Brett Carroll & Cody Ross? Sheesh.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            Matt Carson?

          • Steve S

            Just based on the MLB trade rumor stuff. The only way he came up. Its a valid point though but you never know where they think they can save money.

  • Matt M.

    …at this point i dont care what happens. i’m just satisfied that EVERYONE has finally dropped that “should joba start or relieve” ‘debate’.

    let abreu walk for the picks and stick Nady our in right.
    NY sportswriters will be enamoured by his ‘grittyness’ and hard-core ‘average blue-collar type player’ that the writers will have a field day harkening back to the good ol days of Paulie, Scotty and Tino.

    and when we win the WS they’ll write it was because of our “gritty outfield” of Damon, Gardner, and Nady–oh finally, they will write, how the yankees realize that they dont need an allstar at every position to win– and the writers will be too busy writing hyperbolies about Gardner and Nady to even notice that our resurgence was carried on by our revamped pitching staff of CC Wang Burnett Joba Pettitte

  • E-ROC

    I wouldn’t mind see Bobby Abreu for one year, though I do want the Yanks to get younger and more athletic in the outfield…and the infield for that matter. I like Jeremy Hermida as a replacement. Are there any other candidates? How about Randy Winn?

    • Axl

      Bobby Abreu is 35, Winn will be 35 in June. Not exactly “younger”. But definitely cheaper…

      • Axl

        Sorry, Abreu will be 35 in March. Wouldn’t want to make the Gustapo angry…

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          And… here we go again:

          Gustapo

          [facepalm]

          (let’s see how this turns out)

          • Axl

            LOL. HOW DID I KNOW!!!!

            Here comes Adolph!!!

            LMFAO

        • Axl

          I did it again! “Gestapo”. Damn typos…but I have to correct myself or people jump down and belittle you…otherwise I’d just leave it be…

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            Not that hard, is it? You can admit a mistake without being a dick about it. It’s not a big deal unless you want it to be. Bury the hatchet.

            • Axl

              Alright, just please from now on don’t correct errors…I make them like everybody else…I don’t want to have to take the time to correct something I’m not being officially graded on. It’s a waste of time…

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

                I DIDN’T CORRECT YOUR ERROR. I pointed it out. You took it the wrong way. People rib on each other here all the time, witness the “Uninspiring Austin Jackson” meme. If you keep a good sense of humor and don’t take things so personally, they don’t become a big deal.

                I’m not grading you. I’m not wasting your time. Only you are doing that, to yourself. But I’m not going to censor myself from commenting on shit that I find funny.

                • Axl

                  Whatever keeps you content I guess.

                  And I wasn’t angry or upset about the error on hand, doesn’t bother me…like I said I make errors all the time…I just didn’t understand why it was necessary. But it’s over with.

                  Let’s talk baseball now…

      • E-ROC

        I’m not sure why I put Winn in there, lol. He doesn’t fall under the youth portion of my post, but he is productive at the plate and in the field.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

          Winn’s okay, but he’s not a great hitter, just a decent one (.306/.363/.426). Why pay for that production from a 34 year old who’s not going to get better?

          Meh, no great shakes, IMO.

          • Axl

            What are the chances the A’s are flipping Holliday? I know Rosenthal said they won’t…but it would make sense if he were flipped to the Yankees or Red Sox..

            Unless the A’s think this was the missing piece they needed to win the World Series…I don’t see any point to hold on to him for one year…

            • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

              Well, for what it’s worth, Holliday’s dad thinks that sounds like a good idea.

              • Axl

                The difference is the A’s probably will be asking more than the Rockies would (judging by past negotiations)…

                Who do you think would get the deal done?

  • BG

    “can we please stop using Albert Pujols as some sort of measuring stick for 1Bmen??

    Albert Pujols is a HISTORIC talent. he is going to end up as one of the 20 best hitters in the history of the game (and i think that is shortchanging him a bit, but that’s not the argument i want to get into).

    ASIDE FROM PUJOLS, Teixeira is the best 1Bman in the game.

    i have no idea where this idea that Teixeira is not an elite hitter is coming from.

    there is a TON of room between “Not Pujols” and “Not Elite”.

    Teixeira is elite. he’s not Pujols, but no one is.”

    Texeira is one of the very top 1Bman in the league. I don’t really agree that he’s #2. I’d say that at least Morneau and Youkilis are better. That said, he is one of a small handful of guys that you could make a strong argument for as #4 but there are a lot of good 1Bman out there. Last year, 17 1Bman hit 20+ HR, 17 had 90+ RBIs, and 16 had 800+ OPS. 1B is not a position you need to commit a ton of money to get good production from. To me, a 7 year/$140 million contract guy is a player you are building your team around and those players are elite players who play more skilled positions than 1B or the rare offensive monsters/perrenial MVP candidates such as Pujols or Morneau. Tex just isn’t at that level.

    I wasn’t trying to argue that Tex would likely be a liability at any point over the next 7 years, just that you’d be significantly over paying him compared to other alternatives. The Yankees already have a rediculously high payroll. Why make it worse when you don’t have to?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      The Yankees already have a rediculously high payroll. Why make it worse when you don’t have to?

      According to who? You? Me? Joel Sherman?

      If the Yankees aren’t concerned about their lofty payroll, then why should the rest of us? The Yankees have the money; they’re spending $210 million a year on payroll and still turning a profit. Why shouldn’t they leverage their economic superiority to sign the very best players when they become available? Teixeira, considering his age and their needs, is a no brainer, and to claim that Youkilis and Morneau are better is to ignore reality.

    • steve (different one)

      I don’t really agree that he’s #2. I’d say that at least Morneau and Youkilis are better.

      wait, wha……..?

      how on earth is Youkilis better than Teixeira???

      or even Morneau?

      where is this coming from?

  • BG

    “According to who? You? Me? Joel Sherman?”

    How about according to Cashman who used payroll limitations as part of his excuse not to trade for Santana. Even the Yankees have their limits. And in what world is Texeira a better player than Morneau?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      If you’re going to reply to comments, please use the “reply to this comment” link. That’s why it’s there.

      If the Yankees right now aren’t bemoaning the money, then it’s not an issue. They didn’t make the Santana trade for reasons that far exceeded money. But I love yet another theory of revisionist history regarding the Santana trade. But that’s besides the point really. The Yanks — and in particular Hal — have said that they have the money, and they’re not afraid of spend it. That’s the reality today.

      Meanwhile, in every world is Teixeira better. Take a look:

      Tex: .290/.378/.541. Career OPS+ of 134.
      Morneau (11 months younger than Tex): .281/.348/.498, Career OPS+ of 122.

      Teixeira is also a far superior defender. How can you argue that Morneau is better? Because he has an MVP award that he didn’t deserve?

    • steve (different one)

      And in what world is Texeira a better player than Morneau?

      i don’t get it.

      Teixeira >> Morneau and it’s not even close.

      what are you basing this on?

      is there a single thing that Morneau does better than Teixeira?

      hit for average? no
      hit for power? no
      get on base? no

      both are plus defenders. neither steal bases.

      what is it? i’m honestly curious.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        Morneau is Canadian. Canadians automatically have gritbeards, even when they’re clean shaven.

        Teixeira, meanwhile, is either French or Mexican, or some combination thereof. (Frexican?) No gritbeardedness there.

        Morneau the lumberjack >>>>>>>>>> “Teshera” the foofy poodlehuahua

  • BG

    Your comparison of Tex to Morneau looks as favorable as it does because Morneau only came into his own within the last 3 years but its still admittedly closer than I expected. I still wouldn’t sign Tex to a 7 year contract. I’m not against spending money. I’d back the truck up for CC and if there were an elite CF available, I’d be for going after him too.

    I know not wanting to trade Hughes was a major reason Cash didn’t trade for Santana but it is NOT revisionism to say that money was a huge factor. And I’d much rather have Santana than Tex even if it cost Hughes in addition ot the money. I know Hal and Hank are willing to spend this year but its hard to argue that these big deals don’t limit future flexibility and I don’t think Tex is worth it.

    • steve (different one)

      Your comparison of Tex to Morneau looks as favorable as it does because Morneau only came into his own within the last 3 years

      ??

      last 3 years:

      2006
      M – .321/.375/.559
      T – .282/.371/.514

      2007
      M – .271/.343/.492
      T – .306/.400/.563

      2008
      M – .300/.374/.499
      T – .308/.410/.552

      Morneau was a little better in 2006, but 2007 and 2008 is pretty lopsided.

      also, Teixeira hit .301/.379/.575 in 2005, which was slightly bettter than Morneau’s 2006 MVP season.

      in other words, in 3 out of the last 4 seasons, Teixeira has been BETTER than Morneau’s best season.

  • BG

    I’ll concede that Tex’s stats are better than I expected and Morneau’s aren’t as strong. I’m not sure why i brought up Morneau anyway. I still think 1B is the wrong place to spend that kind of money and wouldn’t commit to that kind of deal for either of them.

    • Old Ranger

      Think of it this way…the money is for the bat to help replace Bobby, Jason. The great D is a by-product, although a good one. 27/09.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

        I still think 1B is the wrong place to spend that kind of money and wouldn’t commit to that kind of deal for either of them.

        Why? Great bats get great contracts. A lot of great bats play first base (because very few great bats are also great enough to play defense well enough to play anywhere else.) Stands to reason, some of the great bats we’d be interested would be playing first base, so if there is one, pay him a great contract.

        I think we’re overthinking this.

        • Old Ranger

          I still think you posted in the wrong spot…hay what? 27/09.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            Whoops, sorry.

        • BG

          1B is not a “skilled” position. I’m more willing to pay top dollar for the positions up the middle than 1B, DH or corner outfield because i think its more important to have strong defense there than at first base. Also, because you don’t have to be as athletic to play 1B, there are a lot of good hitters that play there. As I mentioned, 17 1Bmen hit 20+ HR last year, 17 1Bmen had 90+ RBIs, 16 had 800+ OPS. Replacement value comes into play. Does Texeira bring that much more than a much cheaper option?

          In previous years, it didn’t bother me when the Yankees overpaid for players because it seemed like a limitless budget was the team’s greatest strength. But I’ve heard much more discussion of budgets over the past 1.5 years than I ever heard in the past. And I’ve also seen how little roster flexibility the team has because of its long term, expensive contracts. How many significant players do we have right now that have trade value without eating salary? Joba, Wang, Cano, Hughes, anybody else? I don’t doubt that Tex would be a great fit for the Yankees. I just wonder if he’s really worth it in the long run. Would fans really want him so much if we hadn’t had to settle for Giambi’s awful defense or Phillips/Minky’s awful offense for the past few years?

          You guys are softening me a bit on that question. I’ll admit his numbers are much better than I expected. I guess I was underrating him because he’s put them up somewhat quietly on what were generally strong hitting Texas teams in a hitter’s ballpark. He’s still not the no-brainer to me that CC is though.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            1B is not a “skilled” position.

            Wrong. It’s just not a defensive intensive position. It is a skilled position, and that skill is hitting. Good teams should have good hitters at 1B. Skimping on contract expenditures at 1B ensures you of having mediocre offensive players there, thus cancelling out any boost your offense gets from having an offensive plus player at a defensive intensive position (like Cano at 2B or Jeter at SS).

            I’m more willing to pay top dollar for the positions up the middle than 1B, DH or corner outfield because i think its more important to have strong defense there than at first base.

            But you’re not paying for strong defense at those up the middle spots… strong defense at those up the middle spots is a prerequisite. What you’re paying a premium for there at those defensive intensive spots are players who can actually play both offense and defense. And what you’re paying for at 1B is for an elite hitter. The defense is only a minor drawback or a minor benefit (in Tex’s case, a benefit.) Your thought process shouldn’t be “we shouldn’t be paying elite dollars at 1B”, your thought process should be “1B is a great spot to pay elite dollars for an elite hitter, since the hitting is much more important than the defense.” If there are elite hitters out there that play 1B, that’s a natural fit.

            Replacement value comes into play. Does Texeira bring that much more than a much cheaper option?

            Yes, because we’re not paying Tex to hit 20 HR’s, 90 RsBI, and an .800 OPS. We’re paying him to hit 36 HR, 121 RsBI, and OPS .919… those numbers aren’t good, their outstanding, and that’s the kind of bat we need in the middle of our lineup.

            In previous years, it didn’t bother me when the Yankees overpaid for players because it seemed like a limitless budget was the team’s greatest strength… And I’ve also seen how little roster flexibility the team has because of its long term, expensive contracts.

            Most of those long term expensive contracts are currently expiring. Several of them will be replaced with low-cost youngsters, but all of them don’t have to be. Some of them can be replaced with elite, consistent young performers entering their prime, like CC and Tex.

            Our greatest strength is still our budget, our ability to have premium dollars spent on an elite hitting 1B (like most teams) and also elite hitters at defensive positions as well (unlike most teams). Teixiera fits into our organizational philosophy. Skimping on an inferior 1B doesn’t.

            • BG

              I agree that if Tex were to average 36 HR, 121 RBIS and a .919 OPS over a 7 year contract he’d be well worth $140 million. I really doubt he’ll do that. Its not the front end of the contract I’d worry about. Its the back end where maybe he’s not a liability but is likely to be significantly overpaid.

              Yes, we have most of those overpriced contracts nearing expiration. That doesn’t mean we should replace them all with similar contracts and find ourselves in the same position down the road.

  • Old Ranger

    There are few players that a team can be built around, we have 3-1/2 of them. A-Rod, Joba, Mo and Cano (if he returns to normal). Tex and CC would give us 6 strong powerful ball players, whatever your feelings of them is…one thing is sure, they would make us a much better team for 2009.

    We can live very well without Jason and Bobby, well into the future. One thing I keep seeing posted here; A-Rod will have to move off 3rd in the near future. Da, why? He will play good enough at 3rd well into the time he moves to DH, many players have been ok at 3rd well into their late 30s. 3rd and 1st basemen can produce well into a late age, as has been shown by many.

    One problem I see looking to the future, A-Rod, Tex, CC and Jeter will all be retiring about the same time, or within a couple of years of each other.
    Basically, CC and Tex are good pick-ups if we can get them…actually a must. 27/09.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      Yup.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

    If you’re going to reply to other people’s comments, use the “reply to this comment” link. It keeps the threads neater, and everyone will know what you’re talking about that way.