Open Thread: I should have an MVP vote


Justice was served in baseball land today, as the mythical beast known as Albert Pujols won his second NL MVP award. While the BBWAA should be commended for giving the award to the right guy, I still have a beef with the voters, specifically Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. Not only did Mr. Haudricourt have Pujols at #7 on his ballot (somehow behind THREE other first basemen), he managed to have three Brewers on his ballot. (h/t KLaw)

Three Brewers on his ballot. Three Brewers.

So, let’s get this straight. A writer who covers the Milwaukee Brewers for a living used three of the ten votes on his MVP ballot to vote for players who play for the local team he covers. If that’s not fishy enough, Haudricourt also claims that he likes “to weight (sic) my voting to teams in the playoff hunt because I think that puts more pressure on players and separates the men from the boys,” which would be perfectly reasonable if he didn’t have Carlos Delgado three spots ahead of Pujols on his ballot. Let’s review.

Carlos Delgado: .271-.353-.518, 71 XBH, 124-72 K/BB ratio, 38.2 VORP for a team that finished 1 GB of the Wildcard
Albert Pujols: .357-.462-.653, 81 XBH, 54/104 K-BB ratio, 98.7 VORP for a team that finished 4 GB of the Wildcard

But Mike, Carlos Delgado didn’t start hitting until midseason, you say. Well, let’s look at their stats after Delgado finally started hitting at the end of June:

Delgado: .308-.392-.626, 47 XBH, 80 RBI
Pujols: .356-.444-.664, 50 XBH, 73 RBI

LOGIC FAIL. Pujols still has him beat, and this doesn’t even consider his Gold Glove caliber defense. I wonder if Pujols’ 7th place vote has anything to do with him residing in the same division as Haudricourt’s beloved Brew Crew? If writers can not put their personal biases aside, they should not be voting for baseball’s major awards, period. Pujols was far and away the best player in the game this year (Hanley Ramirez finished second in VORP at 79.4), and to have him seventh on a MVP ballot is just ignorant.


Meanwhile, back in the Bronx, the Yanks managed to pull off some under-the-radar roster moves over the weekend. Are you ready? Here it goes: Jon Albaladejo, Andrew Brackman, Chien-Ming Wang, and Jorge Posada were activated from the 60 day DL. That’s it. Groundbreaking stuff, I know. The Depth Chart is up to date; they need some starting pitching. Like, bad.

Elsewhere, the first free agent came off the board as LHP Jeremy Affeldt inked a 2 yr, $8M deal with the Giants. Great signing by Brian Sabean, locking up an effective and underrated bullpen arm before the reliever market exploded. And because Affeldt was a Type-B free agent, we now officially have a Sandwich Round in next year’s draft. Make sure you check out our 2009 Draft Order Tracker as free agents sign throughout the winter.

So here’s your open thread for the night. Talk baseball, Browns-Bills, Rangers-Senators, whatever you like. Just don’t be a dick.

Categories : Open Thread, Rants


  1. Jake K. says:

    I wonder if the Yanks should’ve signed Affeldt and let Marte go elsewhere, since he was type A.

    • Steve says:

      Mike Stanton, Randy Choate, Sterling Hitchcock, Chris Hammond, Felix Heredia, Gabe White, Jesse Orosco, Alex Graman, CJ Nitkowski, Donovan Osborne, Al Leiter, Buddy Groom, Alan Embree, Mike Stanton-part deux, Wayne Franklin, Sean Henn, Ron Villone, Mike Myers, Matt Smith, Kei Igawa, Billy Traber

      I’m just going to keep posting this every time someone suggest we try another lefty reliever.

      Because we’ve had so much luck with them since 2002.

      • steve (different one) says:

        i get what he is saying, but the problem is that you have to make a decision on Marte before you know if the Reds will re-sign Affeldt.

        • Steve says:

          Affeldt has been very up and down in his career, whereas Marte has been remarkably consistent. You’d just be BEGGING to add another guy to that Flotsam and Jetsum list, especially coming off a good year by Jeremy and asking him to switch leagues.

          • ceciguante says:

            i completely agree, steve. marte had to be signed because he’s the best available option to be an effective veteran (lefty) arm out of the pen. i’m still not completely sold that he’s going to make the transition to the AL East, but the $3M or $4M premium the yanks paid for him is still a good bet to pay off. anything else would have been just another roll of the dice.

            • MrJigginz says:

              Damaso’s career ERA versus AL East teams is 1.94 in 60.1 innings.What exactly makes you apprehensive about Damaso in the AL East?

    • Ed says:

      Screw Marte and Affeldt. CC should be the late inning lefty. Put Joba back in the pen too. CC – Joba – Mo, every game is 6 innings! We’ll never lose again!

      • Steve says:

        Remember that rainy game in KC when Girardi started Bruney, pitched him for 2 innings, then pitched Billy Traber an inning, then Farnsworth for 2 and then brought in the starter IPK for the 5th?

        Genius. Pure, unadulterated genius. Tournament Baseball, baby.

        That. . . is the kind of idea that starts a revolution, my friend.

  2. B.George says:

    Putting Carlos Delgado three spots ahead of Albert Puljos in the MVP voting makes me want to throw up in a cup and eat it. That guy doesnt even deserve to watch baseball nevermind cover it. And im predicting Jonathan Albadejo to be the most improved arm in the bullpen this year and pitch important innings for us. The guy has some good stuff and could really open a lot of peoples eyes.

  3. Hanley Ramirez finished second in VORP at 79.4, and to have him seventh on a MVP ballot is just ignorant.

    My 2008 NL MVP Ballot:
    1) Carlos Delgado
    2) Ryan Howard
    3) Josh Beckett

  4. Albert Pujols: .357-.462-.653, 81 XBH, 54/104 K-BB ratio, 98.7 VORP for a team that finished 4 GB of the Wildcard

    FUCKBALLS, that’s good. That line’s so good I think Poo-Holes should win both the NL and AL MVP’s.

  5. DP says:

    Clearly being head and shoulders below everyone gives ol’ Gritbag Pedroia the edge tomorrow! (It’s tomorrow right?)

  6. From Rob Neyer:

    “The problem for Howard’s viability as an MVP candidate is that the things he did more of were utterly dwarfed by the things Pujols did more of.

    In Howard’s defense, he did exceptionally well — .320/.439/.589 — with runners in scoring position. Unfortunately (again) for Howard’s viability, Pujols did significantly better: .339/.523/.678. What’s more, Howard is easily neutralized; in late-and-close situations — when the enemy manager can usually summon a lefty reliever from the bullpen — he batted just .158/.306/.337 this year. Meanwhile, Pujols was his usual awesome self in those same situations.

    The question this year shouldn’t have been, “Pujols or Howard?” The question should have been, “Who else deserves serious consideration?”

    Pujols’ statistics are so impressive that he was always going to be the most popular choice from a non-playoff team. But must he be the only popular choice? Lance Berkman’s totals weren’t as impressive as Pujols’, but Berkman’s clutch performance was even more impressive. When games were late and close — in the seventh inning or later, with his team tied, ahead by one, or with the tying run at least on deck — Berkman batted .354/.447/.823, with 10 homers in only 79 at-bats. Those numbers are what push Berkman slightly ahead of Pujols in Win Probability Added, which is about as good a measure of value as you’ll find. At least purely in terms of hitting.

    In past years, Pujols has been justifiably considered an outstanding fielder and baserunner. This year, Berkman was the better baserunner and quite possibly the better fielder (according to the numbers at hand). Pujols played in 148 games this year; Berkman played in 159…

    Berkman finished fifth. Lidge finished eighth. Ramirez finished 11th. Utley finished 15th. Beltran finished 22nd. And I can’t help but wonder if the voters might want to consider casting their nets a bit wider next year. There’s more to baseball than just hitting, you know.”

  7. pat says:

    Oh and big ups to my homies the icy hott stuntazz

  8. B.George says:

    Peter Gammons AL MVP Ballot:
    1) Jason Varitek
    2)Dustin Pedroia
    3) Kevin Youkilis
    4)David Ortiz
    5) JD Drew
    6)Mike Lowell
    7)Jacoby Ellsbury
    8)Daiuske Matsuzaka
    9) Jonathan Pappelbon
    10) Theo Epstein

    • DP says:

      I think you have Theo a little low. As bad as Gammons is about the Red Sox, there is no one- and I mean NO ONE, he defends/praises/slobs the knob of more than Epstein. The Red Sox could trade away Papelbon for a bag of nails, and within a half hour Gammons would have an article about how Papelbon was bad in the clubhouse, his article two months prior about Papelbon being the greatest player ever doesn’t apply, and the bag of nails having great value and a ton of upside. God I fucking hate that guy.

      • DP says:

        And the article would start with a story about him and Theo “jamming” in some garage or something and discussing the trade. Ugh

  9. Jay says:

    I hate the fact that Manny & Sabathia came in 4th and 6th, respectively. Sabathia started 17 games for the Brewers and Manny played 53 games with the Dodgers. That’s basically a half of a season for CC and a less than a third of one for Manny.

    Not to get all nerdy and bring “numbers” and “math” into the equation, but if you only play a half of a season with a team, you have to be twice as good as everyone else to be the MVP… I know these are advanced mathematical concepts, so we really can’t expect writers to grasp them.

    And it’s not like they are consistent about partial seasons. Chipper Jones played in 128 games, hit .364 and had a 174 OPS+ at 3rd base, and he comes in 12th?

    And also, the Cy Young winner came in 23rd.

  10. Lanny says:

    Anyone is surprised that the writers are universally terrible in award voting?

    I mean come on. Three guys voted a non rookie ROY!

  11. pat says:

    Fun Facts for 2008
    phil hughes averaged 92.27 mph on his fb
    johan santana averaged 92.75 mph
    ian kennedy averaged 90.97mph
    cc sabagthia averaged 94.24

  12. Mike Plugh says:

    I’m back. (click my name to say hello to COH again!)

    • E-ROC says:

      Welcome back to the land of the living.

    • Jake K. says:

      Mike, good to have you back. I’m wondering what, if anything, you can tell us about Tazawa? Given the draft we just had, shouldn’t the Yanks be in on this guy?

      • Mike Plugh says:

        Bah. I don’t have any faith in this guy. He might be solid, but unless a Japanese pitcher is of the stature of Matsuzaka I have no interest as an MLB team. The fact of the matter is, no Japanese pitcher outside the greatest in their national history has shown anything beyond league average ability. Some kid with no NPB experience would have to be of a peerless-level pedigree for me to take anything but a flyer on him.

        Think about it. Hiroki Kuroda is one of his generations top 5-6-7 pitchers and he’s no better than a #3 pitcher in the NL. Matsuzaka is one of the great pitchers in Japanese history and he is approaching Cy Young level in the AL. There is a middle ground where a pitcher is a reasonable investment, but a kid with no NPB experience is nothing more than a wild gamble at this point.

        Just my two cents.

    • RichYF says:

      Welcome back Mike.

      Definitely missed you around these parts. I look forward to reading your blog/comments again soon.

  13. Erice says:

    The fact that UConn is only beating Hartford by 6 right now is troubling.

  14. Jamal G. says:

    Heh, I like how Keith Law is playing Inspector Gadget with the BBWAA voting.

  15. E-ROC says:

    1. Ryan Howard, Phil
    2. CC Sabathia, Mil
    3. Manny Ramirez, LA
    4. Carlos Delgado, NY
    5. Aramis Ramirez, Chi
    6. Prince Fielder, Mil
    7. Albert Pujols, Stl
    8. Ryan Ludwick, Stl
    9. Ryan Braun, Mil
    10. David Wright, NY

    LOL, this fool had Fielder along with Carlos Delgado ranked ahead of Pujols. That is beyond insane. And this, this dirtbag didn’t have Lance Berkman on there either.

  16. NC Saint says:

    Why is the compensation pick for not signing our second rounder a third round pick in ’09?

    • Mike A. says:

      Comp picks for unsigned 1st and 2nd rounders come one spot after the original pick. Bittle was the 75th overall pick last year, so the Yanks get pick 75A, essentially pick 76, this year. The round doesn’t matter, that spot of that pick won’t change in terms of the overall order.

  17. Mike A. says:

    Freddie Sjostrom in the house.

  18. Steve says:

    LoHud saying Moose should make a decision sometime this week.

    Here’s a question, what if he says “Yes, I want to pitch again, and the Yanks are my 1st choice”? Then what? Most of us have been assuming that he’s retiring. If he throws his hat in the ring, that changes things.

    We know Andy wants to come back, and I don’t think the Yanks want both of them back. Personally, I take Andy. I like having 2 lefties and I think you can expect similar production out of either one next year.

    • Mike A. says:

      If Moose wants to come back, then bring him back. If Andy wants to come back, then bring him back too. Stay the course and go after CC/Burnett/Lowe. You can never have too much pitching.

      If they go into next season with a rotation of CC, Wang, Moose, Lowe, Pettitte, then they can start Joba in AAA (blasphemy, I know) here he could take a regular rotation turn and get his innings in. That has to be the best case scenario.

      • Steve says:

        From what I’ve heard from Kay and others, the Yanks would offer both a 9-10 mil 1 year contract. Whoever wants it can take it first. The other one will become a free agent.

        • Steve says:

          BTW-My prediction, Moose doesn’t retire.

          I know he was telling everyone he wants to retire, but he’s also known to be a bit of a contrarian. He really has a lot of reasons to come back. If he quits, it would seem to me that he’s simply tired of the game and it was always just a job to him.

          • Lanny says:

            This Moose the same guy who lost his job in 2007 and everyone wanted cut in May of 2008?

            I can see why their is apprehension on the part of the Yanks FO and even Moose himself. What if he comes back for 3 yrs and stinks it up like he was?

            • Steve says:

              Oh, don’t get me wrong. I’ve already said I prefer Andy. Even when Andy has nothing he’ll battle through 4-5 innings. When Moose has nothing, he’s out by the 2nd inning.

              BTW-The only deal the Yanks will consider is 1 year at a reduced rate, according to everything I’ve read.

            • Mike A. says:

              I never said bring Moose back for 3 yrs. Bringing him back for that long is just stupid. One yr plus an option, max.

  19. chriistopher says:

    cant wait to celebrate pedroia as the al mvp – that will be the joke of jokes

  20. Jack says:

    A comment underneath that article:

    Miller+Molitor=Highlife» Report abuse Monday Nov 17, 2008 1:37 PM
    Pujols as MVP is such a JOKE. It’s a disgrace to the players that deserve the award and MLB. HOW do we listen year after year from the voters, “well, he had a great year but his team didn’t make to the playoffs” or “you cannot vote a MVP from a team that didn’t make the postseason”, but here we are with a MVP from a 4TH PLACE TEAM! This is such a joke and makes a mochary or the sport. An award given to the same man that complained that a player should not get MVP from a losing squad. Congrats Pujols! I hope HGH is enscribed right next to your name on the tropy and your balding head shines in the reflection every time you admire your award.

    God I hate people.

  21. chriistopher says:

    a visionary thought….check out this article. wouldnt that make for a fun off-season:

  22. Steve says:

    Pedro Will Pitch In ’09
    By Tim Dierkes [November 17 at 8:21pm CST]’s Jon Heyman talked to Pedro Martinez’s agent, Fern Cuza. Cuza says his client will pitch next year, and “it’ll be fun to see the old Pedro again.” He’s healthy now after last year’s hamstring injury.

    The Mets will be in the mix. GM Omar Minaya reportedly told Mike Francesa of WFAN that he’ll make Pedro an offer “of some sort.” You have to think Pedro will end up with a one-year, incentive-based deal somewhere.

  23. Quote of the day:

    “I’ve never been a part of a tie. I never even knew that was in the rule book. It’s part of the rules, and we have to go with it. I was looking forward to getting the opportunity to get out there and try to drive to win the game. But unfortunately, with the rules, we settled with a tie. I guess we’re aware of it now. In college, there are multiple overtimes, and in high school and Pop Warner. I never knew in the professional ranks it would end that way. I hate to see what would happen in the Super Bowl and in the playoffs.”

    -Donovan McNabb

  24. Mike A. says:

    Thaaaaaaa Rangers win.

  25. Nady Nation says:

    So, what are Jet fans thinking this week? Confident at your chances knocking off the Titans? I’m calling it right now – the Jets will win on Sunday.

  26. Heh, in my two leagues, I have a 9-10 point league in both and my opponent has Kellen Winslow (and nobody else) going tonight.

    I need these damn Bills to stop leaving him uncovered over the middle. DAMNIT, PAUL POSLUZNY, MAN UP AND STAY ON HIM!!!

  27. Manimal says:

    4 hours till the bidding on that Mark Melancon hat ends.

  28. Steve H says:

    From rotoworld.

    Padres GM Kevin Towers revealed that he’s currently only engaged with the Cubs in the Jake Peavy trade talks.
    “It’s really come down to one club now –- the Cubs,” he said. “It’s going to take awhile. They have a couple of players to pick from that we are interested in but anything with them is going to potentially involve a third team or fourth team. We’re focusing only on them.” Towers added that his conversations with the Yankees “were not substantial” and that he told GM Brian Cashman “until I get the go-ahead from Jake, I’m not going to” explore trade options with the Bombers

  29. Mike A. says:

    That Coors Light commercial will Brian Billick on the sideline is hysterical.

    “Coach, someone is stealing that Coors Light we set aside for you for later.”


  30. Mike A. says:

    Man, it looks absolutely frigid in Buffalo.

  31. This MNF game is getting crazy. These defenses are so soft.

  32. Mike Pop says:

    I think we should sell high on Nady and get something semi valuable back.. Then go all out for Tex.. We have an outfield of Damon Gardner and Swish… With Tex at first base.. Thouhgts ?

  33. Mike A. says:

    That was a crazy good interception.

  34. Mike A. says:

    That can’t be right … that was Romeo Crennel’s first challange of the season? It’s Week 11, what is he waiting for?

  35. Mike Pop says:

    Ladies and gentlemen, can I please have your attention. I’ve just been handed an urgent and horrifying news story. I need all of you, to stop what you’re doing and listen. Cannonball!

  36. Mike Pop says:

    Whered you get those clothes….at the ..toilet store

  37. Mike A. says:

    Ron Jaworski: “He stroked that ball beautifully, right down the middle.”

    Yes, I’m that immature.

  38. Mike Pop says:

    O man… Super Troopers and Anchorman… 2 of the funniest movies I have ever seeen… Beerfest too!! Im watching Youtube videos right now

    • - Veronica Corningstone.
      - This is your doctor. I have your pregnancy report here, and guess what? You got knocked up. You should probably get out of news.
      - Who is this?
      - This is Dr. Chim. Dr. Chim Richalds.
      - Ron, is this you?
      -I’m a professional doctor. You saw me. You don’t remember. We… you should move. Get out of the business.
      - This is pathetic.
      - You’re pathetic.

      -What’d she say?
      - She… I don’t… I think she bought it.

  39. rj says:

    Just by reading you everyday Mike A I can tell you play World of Warcraft…so what server are you on?

  40. Derek says:

    Michael Kay just said on ESPN, basically if they can get some more FA pitchers they could move JOba to the bullpen

  41. [...] old friend Tom Haudricourt, who’s still trying to find a way to squeeze another Brewer on his MVP ballot. Apparently the Yanks have “floated the idea” of making another run at centerfielder [...]

  42. [...] year, Mike ranted about Tom Haudricourt’s ballot. Haudricourt covers the Brewers, and that bias seemed to have shown on his MVP ballot. He voted [...]

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