Nov
13

Open Thread: The storm before the storm

By

So how about that, eh? In one move today, the Yanks took on Nick Swisher and his salary in exchange for Jeff Marquez and Wilson Betemit. Talk about heating up the Hot Stove League in the blink of an eye.

But do you know what’s even better than Nick Swisher? How about Nick Swisher and C.C. Sabathia, together, in the same picture? Via the excellently-named It’s All A-Rod’s Fault comes this image from Nick Swisher’s Web site:

If only. If only.

Meanwhile, while we’re all enjoying the high of a good trade, the free agent signing period kicks off in a few hours with CC Sabathia, Mark Teixeira and Manny Ramirez headlining the Hot Stove this year. It seems as though Manny and the Dodgers may be heading for a split.

While the Dodgers have an offer on the table that could send $60 million Manny’s way over three seasons, Scott Boras fired back today with a quote that shows his true character. “On behalf of Manny Ramirez, we will, for the first time, begin accepting serious financial offers on Friday,” said Boras. What a class act.

So as we head into the best time of the winter, feel free to open the floor to anything. The Jets and Pats are playing on Channel 11 at 8 p.m., and money is about to dominate baseball’s off-season.

Late add by Mike: South Side Sox has an exclusive transcript of the Swisher trade negotiations. Check it out.

341 Comments»

  1. Ivan says:

    Just came from work and I just heard the news about the swisher trade.

    Persoanlly, I thought it was a cool deal. I mean yes Swisher had a bad season but you hope he can bounce back. Plus, he does get alot of walks and has very good OBP skills. Can play 1st base and hopefully do a solid job at 1st base.

    Plus, he’s been known to have a pretty exuberate personality that can be helpful to the team so overall a solid trade.

    • Joey H says:

      Maybe our number three guy? Nice OBP.

      • Joey H says:

        Providing of course that he can get his avg on a decent track.

      • Mike A. says:

        Nah, stash him down in the 6 or 7 hole, no need to pressure him right away.

        • Joey H says:

          No no this I know. I’m saying if we don’t get Tex of course and hopefully we can get him swinging the bat better hes a viable option.

          • BxBomberCutie says:

            You can’t honestly think that the bat of Nick Swisher is going replace Tex’s or the RBI’s and HR’s lost by Giambi and Abreu…

            Id like to know what bats are going to replace 200 RBIS and over 50 HRs. Swisher has never hit over .265 in his career, I understand him offering flexibility, but do you really want this guy starting over Tex? Hell give me Casey Blake before Swisher!

            • Joey H says:

              Um i didnt say that i said he can be a decent number three guy due to his OBP.

            • You can’t honestly think that the bat of Nick Swisher is going replace Tex’s or the RBI’s and HR’s lost by Giambi and Abreu…

              … but I can honestly think that he’ll outproduce Betemit, Jeff Marquez, and Nunez. That’s what’s really germane to the Swisher discussion.

              I understand him offering flexibility, but do you really want this guy starting over Tex?

              No. Nobody does. I think everyone who was advocating acquiring Tex before the Swisher trade is still doing so after the Swisher trade. I personally always saw Swisher as helping us fill outfield holes and not 1B holes, but the fact remains he can start for us at any of 4 places, although I still want to continue to aggressively work for even better players for those 4 places.

  2. Joey H says:

    Hey Benny where the hell where you for that podcast? Mike and Joe sound WAY different than I would imagine. Mike sounds big tall and scruffy lol.

    • Mike A. says:

      Big and scruffy, yes. Tall, not so much. I’m battling a cold too, hence the constant sniffling and mouth breathing.

      • Joey H says:

        Lol you were almost Kruk sounding my friend! ;) The crazy things the internet hides. I had all of you like slim 25 year old grad students who wear American eagle. but then again that isn’t the prototypical baseball fan.

        • Mike A. says:

          Hah. That’s the polar opposite of me. T-shirt and jeans, and if I’m feeling frisky, clean shaven.

          • Joey H says:

            Yeah I’ve been going with the shaved style lately myself haha. The hairs itch brother. and Yeah I’m your average 90′s jeans and tee shirts guy myself, I was contemplating breaking out the flanels! lol.

  3. Mike Pop says:

    I agree with Boras tho.. That offer isnt serious enough

  4. s says:

    now how long does it take to lock up cc

  5. Jamal G. says:

    So, in the end, the White Sox gave up Gio Gonzalez, Fautino de los Santos, and Ryan Sweeney for Jeff Marquez and one crappy season of Swisher. Hopefully Billy Beane gave Kenny Williams a red rose after raping him; that’s the least he could do.

    Heh, that was from a poster at SoSH.

  6. steve (different one) says:

    man, those ChiSox fans on that site are PISSED.

    that’s usually a good sign you make a good trade.

  7. Steve says:

    Is there anything more puke inducing than 4 white girls trying to sound like they have soul?

  8. nolan says:

    If Swisher is going to be playing 1b than the yanks will not be bidding for Mr Texiera…. BUT they could (and should) still make a run at Manny Ramirez to DH. Nady and Matsui could platoon in RF.
    Damon, Jeter, Swisher, Arod, Manny, Posada, Matsui/Nady, Cano, Gardner

  9. Ivan says:

    I ain’t gonna front, Mike sounds alot different than what I would think.

  10. E-ROC says:

    That transcript was hilarious.

  11. Mike Pop says:

    How many think Cash is bluffing saying Swish is our 1st baseman and think like Pete Abe that we def won’t look at Tex

    • Joey H says:

      That’s a very interesting thought. *Poker Face*

    • Mike A. says:

      “I’m comfortable with Bubba Crosby in centerfield.”

      • Mike Pop says:

        Damon wasnt the type of contract Tex is.. But they arent the same type of players.. But 100 mill or so more could be that problem.. But I hope we fix that problem and get Tex anyways… We need Swish for the outfield especially after Damon, Matsui, and Nady could all be goners.. What are we going to do bank on A-Jax, Gardner, and a FA like Holliday or Crawford for 2010.. Id rather have Swish out there gauranteed and have Tex at first.. Tex is a better bat than any of those FA’s are and he is better for the future.. You cant bank on Montero being a 1b ya know

    • s says:

      he definitely is as boras will look for only serious offers.

  12. E-ROC says:

    Congrats to A-Rod and Jeter winning the Silver Slugger Awards.

  13. pat says:

    that south side sox message board is hilarious.

  14. Chip says:

    If you guys ever get sick of the people at LoHud, go check out the comments on MLBTR. There are some really bad ones there. Apparently White Sox fans think this trade was all about Nunez and how he’s going to be a great closer for them.

    Seriously the kid got lit up in A ball last year. All the Red Sox fans are claiming the Yankees are going to suck next year due to them no longer pursuing Tex. Wow

  15. E-ROC says:

    What would ya’ll do if K-Rod wins the MVP?

  16. Jamal G. says:

    Call of Duty: World At War or Resistance 2?

  17. Ivan says:

    Is it set in stone that CC is a yankee?

  18. pat says:

    haha this is a chisox fan’s reaction

    http://www.trukn.com/bco/tyrepwn.gif

  19. Steve says:

    I like (not love) the Swisher trade, but want to make a point. In Mike’s (otherwise well thought out) original thread he suggested a Damon for Swisher swap. Other people suggested things like Melky+a reliever and were told that was a “non starter”. As it turns out, he went for even less than Melky and a reliever. Marquez is largely a bust as a prospect and Betemit is a bench player who’s glove you cant hide anywhere on the diamond. Betemit=Melky and any good reliever>Marquez. If Cash would have offered Damon, he would have overpaid by a TON. Mike offered way, way too much.

    There’s a reason for this. Most people look at these trades in Baseball terms, and fail to include the contract. Or if they do include the contract, they fail to give it equal weight with baseball value. Coming off this season, Swisher has almost zero baseball value when you take into account his contract going forward. When you pay someone an annual average of 7+ mil per, you expect at least a league average player, and Swisher was below average in 2008. This is why young, cheap players are worth so much, they produce yet make no money. So to trade for them, you’d have to equal BOTH the Baseball production value AND the cost savings with what you give up.

    That’s the reason I don’t LOVE the Swisher trade. He’s scheduled to make loads of $$ and if he doesn’t revert to his previous form, he will be an overpaid, untradeable albatross on this team. You could very well have a .220 hitter taking up room on the bench who’s not all that good defensively anywhere. If that happens, then we just traded for another Wilson Betemit, but a much more expensive one.

    He needs to have a bounce back year just to earn his contract, much less what we gave up. Which I agree was very little.

    • Steve H says:

      Actually, Swisher’s contract is reasonable considering his history, not a 1 year sample. It gives the Yankees a ton of flexibility.

    • YankCrank20 says:

      That’s an interesting point. However, I would counter with two points. First, there are reasonable statistics and points that would point to last year being a fluke (forcing him to hit leadoff and change his approach, inconsistent playing time and lots of line drive outs) and how the Yankees are doing the classic move of buying low on a player with a huge upside. Second, as many people say, the Yankees are able to absorb contracts that don’t pay up to the player’s standards. We absorbed years of Kevin Brown, Bernie Williams and Jason Giambi when they were past their prime, all contracts between $12-20 million a year. It’s worth the risk for a guy making $7 avg. annually and worst case scenario can still player above-avg. defense.

      • Steve says:

        ‘Huge upside’? He had a .750ish OPS last year, if he reverts to 06-07 production he’ll be in the mid .800′s. Given that he’s really a LF/1B, that’s barely league average for those positions. And again, IF he reverts to form.

        http://www.baseball-reference......ni01.shtml

        BTW-Those contracts tied Cashman’s hands for many years, to the detriment of the team. It’s ironic that people keep arguing he gives the Yanks “flexibility” when if he continues to produce at 2008 levels, he will be untradeable.

    • YankCrank20 says:

      That’s an interesting point. However, I would counter with two points. First, there are reasonable statistics and points that would point to last year being a fluke (forcing him to hit leadoff and change his approach, inconsistent playing time and lots of line drive outs) and how the Yankees are doing the classic move of buying low on a player with a huge upside. Second, as many people say, the Yankees are able to absorb contracts that don’t pay up to the player’s standards. We absorbed years of Kevin Brown, Bernie Williams and Jason Giambi when they were past their prime, all contracts between $12-20 million a year. It’s worth the risk for a guy making $7 avg. annually and worst case scenario can still play above-avg. defense.

    • steve (different one) says:

      He’s scheduled to make loads of $$

      but he isn’t.

      it’s $22M for 3 years.

      that’s $7.3M a year.

      it’s not nothing, but it’s nowhere even close to “loads of $$”.

      • Steve says:

        For his 2008 production, he’s expensive. We could have got similar numbers from Betemit for 1.1 mil (2008 salary).

        Swisher 2008 OPS+ 92
        Betemit 2008 OPS+ 86 (Career +95)

    • Chip says:

      Wilson Betemit career OPS+ is 95
      Nick Swisher career OPS+ is 112
      Swisher’s 2007 season was .262/.381/.455 with a .301 BABIP
      2006 was .254/.372/.493 with a .283 BABIP
      last year he had a .249 BABIP which is definitely abberational as far as the rest of his career is concerned.

      I’m fine with picking up a guy who isn’t cheap, is still at about market value and hitting his prime. Better idea than signing Manny, that’s for sure!

      • Steve says:

        “I’m fine with picking up a guy who isn’t cheap”

        The problem with that is the rest of Baseball isn’t. Most other teams don’t want to pay their bench players 22 mil over 3 years.

  20. YankCrank20 says:

    I am a very superstitious Yankee fan. I got up today to get ready for work and my Yankee pj pants, Yankee blankey and 2008 spring training shirt were sprawled all over the floor. Before I left I ran in to fold them all and put them away, in hopes that for some odd reason today would be a great day for the Yankees.

    Looks like I made the right move. Swisher is an intelligent move that makes our infield younger and better but with about $15 million less a year than Tex would cost. I love Tex, but this gives us the chance to pass on him and not commit 7-8 years of $200 million to another player. I like it.

  21. Baseballnation says:

    Nt for nothing but with the kind of money the yankees will be throwing at Sabathia I think it should come with a requirement that he shed a few pounds, he’s getting larger by the day and a guy his size and weight will certainly not age very well

  22. Old Ranger says:

    Well, I guess the platoon of Miranda/Nady at 1st is out…unless they put Swish in Rf.
    We have some guys that can play the corner OF spots; Nady, Swish, Matsui, Johnny (only LF), Melky and Justin but only one CF…Brett, ok, Justin (in a pinch).
    On paper, this trade looks very good for us, let’s hope it turns out as well. Please let us not entertain picking up guys such as Manny, Dunn and Holliday. 27/09.

  23. Baseballnation says:

    Yeah lets compare every fat pitcher to Boomer. Sabathia is three to 4 inches taller and 40 pounds heavier…

  24. yankeefan91 (sign manny) says:

    i still think we need a big bat in the lineup but most importantely we need 2or three pitchers cuz we need pitching

  25. Joey H says:

    Hey I know this isn’t Yankee related but where do you guys see Kerry Wood going?

  26. Baseballnation says:

    I think Wood could either go to the mets depending on the Fuentes situation or to Cleaveland…and I wouldn’t rule out Boston

  27. steve says:

    sabathia will be a 15-20 game winner for most to all of his 6 or 7 year contract with the yankees lineup the way it is year after year

  28. steve says:

    what word is that

  29. Joey H says:

    Hey Jamal, How you liking entourage so far? its all over the place.

    • Baseballnation says:

      I’ve been a religious faithful of the show since it’s first episode, never missed a show…I’d have to say that last season was probably the worst of all and this season is right behind it as far as that. It hasn’t been greatly scripted, Adrien Griener’s role of Vince seems to have really taken a back seat to the overall other characters despite the whole smoke jumpers theme revolving around him, and the storylines for Johnny Drama and Turtle are much less adventurous then in previous seasons. In Essense the show really revolves around E which isn’t all that bad, but he’s obviously the most boring of any of the characters. Sloane is fucking hotttt!

      • Joey H says:

        .. Thanks Jamal.. oh wait.. Just kidding pal. I hear you man everything you said is right. E is really the protagonist of the show.

    • Jamal G. says:

      Really? I fucking love it. The rebound from the start of the season has been nothing short of amazing. Also, “True Blood” is finishing so strong; I fucking love that show.

      • Joey H says:

        Dude I’m gonna get into that, every time we talk entourage you bring that up lol. And they shot Entourage somewhere in Middle Village Queens. Im still waiting for that episode.

    • Jamal G. says:

      Oh, and I never thought I would enjoy something more than seeing Adam Davies getting bitch-slapped by Ari Gold until I saw Bow Wow deck the shit out of Seth Green.

      • Joey H says:

        Yeah that was nuts, Hes like ” E, you sucker punched dude?” and then shortly there after he kicked his ass.

      • Baseballnation says:

        No, hands down Davies getting fucking slapped was legendary. His face beforew he got slapped where his lip was quivering was funny as hell. The opening season episode was garbage so obviously there was no way to go but up, but again the escapades this season has been much less thrilling. Arti’s buddy who he’s bringing into the agency is becoming a regular season character by next season. I guess he’ll be the Ying to Ari’s yang.

  30. pat says:

    leon washington is LT lite

  31. Mike A. says:

    LEE-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!

  32. E-ROC says:

    How can you list K-Rod as one of the favorites for the AL MVP?

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....8;c_id=mlb

    • Ivan says:

      I don’t know who I don’t want to win the MVP more, Pedroia or K-Rod.

    • Baseballnation says:

      Arse! I don’t get it. He’s a favorite but they only have Pedroia and Morneau as “contenders”….My vote goes for Morneau. He plays with Mauer and nothing else…well just read the article and it gives you a glimpse of just how important he is to the Twins lineup

  33. E-ROC says:

    I hate Time Warner Cable. I can’t even get NFL Network. It’s blacked out here in the great town of Mountain Home.

  34. Joey H says:

    Hey guys, Any rough idea around where you predict our payroll will be next season based on who you think we will sign like a CC, Lowe, Tex ect..? If so, is it possible for you to break it down into RP/SP/Offense?

    • Thomas says:

      I was just calculating that. Here is my guess.

      C – Posada S 13.1
      1B – Teixeira S 20
      2B – Cano L 9
      SS – Jeter R 20
      3B – Rodriguez R 32
      RF – Nady R 6
      CF – Gardner L .4
      LF – Damon L 13
      DH – Swisher S 5.3

      Bench
      DH – Matsui L 13
      C – Molina R 2
      IF – Ransom R .4
      OF – Cabrera S .4

      SP Sabathia L 23
      SP Wang R 6
      SP Chamberlain R .4
      SP Pettitte L 12
      SP Sheets R 15

      Bullpen
      Cl Rivera R 15
      Set Bruney R 1
      Set Marte L 4
      Set Veras R .4
      Set Ramirez R .4
      Set Open R .4
      Rel Giese R .4

      It equals 212.6 plus the cost of Igawa, Miranda, Brackman, buyouts, ect.
      Also you could easily sub out 15 million for Sheets and have Hughes, or remove Teixeira and have Swisher at first with Matsui at DH.

  35. steve says:

    does this trade mean no mark teixeira or just as a positioning move by the yanks with boras

    we all know he only wants “serious” offers

    • pat says:

      imo its a little of everything. Softens the blow if we dont land tex, also can be used as a positioning manuver in tex negotiations.

    • Joey H says:

      I think any offer the Yankees make to a high profile free agent it’s considered to be “serious” especially in that .. green paper, you know money. And I doubt we are done with Tex bidding, for crying out loud we never got started! .As some one said up there he said he was comfortable with Bubba Crosby, then we got Damon

      • Thomas says:

        My problem with comparing this to the Bubba Crosby was that the only reason we signed Damon was his price kept falling, because no one wanted to meet his demands. I don’t see Teixeira’s price dropping like Damon’s price did.

    • Mike Pop says:

      I still think Tex should be a top priority but this is only my 14th time saying this

  36. pat says:

    PLZ DECLINE THIS I NEED THE FANTASY POINTSS!!!!!!!

  37. Jamal G. says:

    That’s a man’s catch.

  38. A.D. says:

    Who is sam aiken

  39. Joey H says:

    Agh, Winning isn’t so easy when you don’t have advanced knowledge is it?

  40. Joey H says:

    Kevin Gregg on a potential postseason team as a closer with 7 blown saves scares me.

  41. Dillon says:

    why is no one mentioning the fact that Nunez is a legit power arm that put up great stats in AA?

  42. Jamal G. says:

    Bill Belichick has looked quite idiotic this season. If he had gone for the FG in the last drive, they would’ve been setup quite nicely with another FG here to make it 24-12. Instead they had to risk going for it on 4th Down.

  43. Baseballnation says:

    Dammit I love having Anchorman on Limewire. This movie single handedly has the best quotes to rip from of all time. ” The arsenist has oddly shaped feet.” “my left one is named John westhall and the right one is named Dr Kenneth Noisewater”

  44. Kevin G. says:

    Mike, how do you think Swisher will do next year?

  45. Manimal says:

    Oh my god, Gears of war 2 kicks ass.

  46. Jamal G. says:

    Chad Johnson is the fucking man.

  47. Manimal says:

    was it swisher that broke his bat before he even making contact ?

  48. Thomas says:

    Holy shit! Fire Joe Morgan is saying goodbye! I hope this isn’t real.

  49. Mike Pop says:

    Girardi just said on Yankees Hot Stove, Swisher will slot in at 1b.. But thats just for now.. Also Tyler Kepner is mad funny looking

  50. Baseballnation says:

    If they think by claiming this it gives them any ounce of leverage in the teixeira deal then they are sadly mistaken. All it does is offer them security

  51. daniel says:

    I like swisher. solid baseball player. however, the old “paul oneill, scott brosius- type player” statement simply doesnt work. First of all, paulie and brosius were very different type players, and shouldnt be used in the same comparison. Besides the one year that Brosius hit .300, he never was this huge offensive piece to the yankee puzzle.
    Swisher is a good piece, but he is definitely not the answer. another piece is definitely needed. Hes played a little bit of CF, but still isnt a CFer.
    This is a good move by cashman, but people need to recognize this isnt the solution thats going to put the yanks past the sox and rays, or even the blue jays (who, if they make a big move, are going to be an excellent team). its just the first step.

    by the wayif i could say one thing to one person, i would tell vince vaughn not to make anymore christmas movies. for the life of me, i just cant understand why. does he think eventually one will be get him that ever-elusive Oscar/Golden Globe/ nickelodeon award?

  52. Mike A. says:

    Fun stat: Nick Swisher’s 4.51 P/PA this year was the highest total in 8 years.

  53. E-ROC says:

    Joey Crawford sucks

  54. Mike A. says:

    The Jets are making this game unnecessarily interesting.

  55. Steve H says:

    1:15 until CC’s phone rings!!

  56. E-ROC says:

    The Jets are starting to beat themselves. If they lose this game, it would no doubt be a crushing defeat.

  57. Mike A. says:

    The Jets need a new closer AND set-up man. They just can’t put the game away.

  58. Jamal G. says:

    Heh, you guys remember that post a couple days ago about that ugly broad posing next to some craptastic car? Well, it turns out that fugly chic, Ellie, is an internet sensation; especially for .gif’s such as this: http://i35.tinypic.com/33eua2p.jpg

    She even has a MySpace page. One of the comments on her MySpace blog reads:

    Just know that there have been over 1 million views, and all 1 million people have the come to the same conclusion- You look like chewbacca.

  59. Manimal says:

    Tied up.

  60. E-ROC says:

    Tie game.

  61. Mike A. says:

    3:10 left. Hold ‘em down, yo.

  62. E-ROC says:

    Kris Jenkins just abused Mankins. WOW!

  63. pat says:

    pats you can just walk down the field we’ll make it easy for you

  64. Mike A. says:

    Couldn’t stick two guys in front of Moss, huh?

  65. E-ROC says:

    Wow. A-Rod’s fault!

  66. E-ROC says:

    I love how Chris Collinsworth just dogged Moss just before that play and now has to show him some love. Jacknuts.

  67. pat says:

    is it just me or does the prevent defense rarely if ever prevent?

  68. E-ROC says:

    Um….run the ball???????!!!!! HELLOOOOOO run the ball!!!

  69. Mike Pop says:

    Guys see how Towers said he doesnt see a potential deal with Braves or Cubs.. Maybe we could get this guy huh ?? I know its a longshot but it could happen.. No Hughes or Ajax is a longshot tho

    http://www3.signonsandiego.com.....23/?padres

  70. pat says:

    thomas jones has to be exactly aver age at every aspect of being a running back, except that he has big guns.

  71. pat says:

    thomas jones has to be exactly average at every aspect of being a running back, except that he has big guns.

  72. Mike Pop says:

    Jets dont win this game if Brady was playing right ??

  73. E-ROC says:

    Where are all those Favre critics?

  74. Tim Q. Mills says:

    Kevin Towers told Tom Krasovic of the San Diego Union-Tribune that despite advanced discussions with the Braves and Cubs, he does not see a potential deal with either club. Krasovic wonders if Towers will now try to engage the Yankees and Angels.

    Got get em Cash!

    • Chip says:

      Which means, “we’re really close to a deal with the Braves and/or Cubs but they won’t move on the one last piece so I’m going to pressure them through the media”

  75. Old Ranger says:

    Maybe Swish is one of the answers to Cashmans’ saying, that we may not get the players we (fans) want…or something to that effect.
    Thinking on a comment made by A.D. in this thread, about having Swish and Miranda platoon at 1st base (if Swish hits leftys well). That may not be all that bad; if we get 15-20 HRs from Swish and 20-25 from Miranda and they combine for about .290 avg. with OBP of .400+, I could live with that. Could we get an avg of .290, 35 HRs, with .400+OBP combined from them? I still like getting it all from one player…Tex. Anyhow, just kicking it around. 27/09.

  76. Bruno says:

    “While the Dodgers have an offer on the table that could send $60 million Manny’s way over three seasons, Scott Boras fired back today with a quote that shows his true character. “On behalf of Manny Ramirez, we will, for the first time, begin accepting serious financial offers on Friday,” said Boras. What a class act.”

    When are GM’s going to start hanging-up on/punching Boras in the face? I really am surprised that more guys haven’t followed Kenny Rogers footsteps (never thought I’d say that lol).

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