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	<title>Comments on: A stadium scandal and a scoreboard heads south</title>
	<atom:link href="http://riveraveblues.com/2008/12/a-stadium-scandal-and-a-scoreboard-heads-south-6338/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/12/a-stadium-scandal-and-a-scoreboard-heads-south-6338/</link>
	<description>A New York Yankees Blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 15 Feb 2012 08:03:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: City gives up luxury suites &#124; River Avenue Blues</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/12/a-stadium-scandal-and-a-scoreboard-heads-south-6338/#comment-250526</link>
		<dc:creator>City gives up luxury suites &#124; River Avenue Blues</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 16:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=6338#comment-250526</guid>
		<description>[...] one for the little guy. After facing intense scrutiny over aggressive e-mails and shady land dealings, the City of New York will be giving up its luxury suite at the new Yankee Stadium for a cash [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] one for the little guy. After facing intense scrutiny over aggressive e-mails and shady land dealings, the City of New York will be giving up its luxury suite at the new Yankee Stadium for a cash [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The stadium land deal penalty &#124; River Avenue Blues</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/12/a-stadium-scandal-and-a-scoreboard-heads-south-6338/#comment-234606</link>
		<dc:creator>The stadium land deal penalty &#124; River Avenue Blues</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 21:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=6338#comment-234606</guid>
		<description>[...] yesterday&#8217;s somewhat heated discussion on the sketcy goings-on surrounding the land deal for the new Yankee Stadium, one of the RAB commenters asked exactly what the penalty could be for [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] yesterday&#8217;s somewhat heated discussion on the sketcy goings-on surrounding the land deal for the new Yankee Stadium, one of the RAB commenters asked exactly what the penalty could be for [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/12/a-stadium-scandal-and-a-scoreboard-heads-south-6338/#comment-234043</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 03:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=6338#comment-234043</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not disagreeing with you that a $266 dollar difference is too much. I&#039;m just saying large differences are possible.

But let&#039;s look at the full picture here - both estimates are laughably bad. The stadium land is valued way too high, and the Terminal Market land is valued way too low. About $50 per square foot is a reasonable ballpark number for the land valuations, which puts one property valuation at less than 1/5th the proper value, and the other at around 5.5x the proper value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not disagreeing with you that a $266 dollar difference is too much. I&#8217;m just saying large differences are possible.</p>
<p>But let&#8217;s look at the full picture here &#8211; both estimates are laughably bad. The stadium land is valued way too high, and the Terminal Market land is valued way too low. About $50 per square foot is a reasonable ballpark number for the land valuations, which puts one property valuation at less than 1/5th the proper value, and the other at around 5.5x the proper value.</p>
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		<title>By: tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/12/a-stadium-scandal-and-a-scoreboard-heads-south-6338/#comment-233731</link>
		<dc:creator>tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=6338#comment-233731</guid>
		<description>Again... both of these two plots of land are virtually the same size, they&#039;re practically across the street from one another, neither of them has any environmental hazards or problems, they&#039;re both well served by public transportation and utilities, they have no special tax restrictions or subdivisions or prior use, etc. etc. etc.

All of you raise several valid reasons why plots of land can be valued differently.  But not enough to justify a difference between $9 and $275.

As somebody who lived in the neighborhood and works in the neighborhood and knows these areas intimately, if the Bronx Terminal Market land was valued at $9 a square foot and the Yankee Stadium land was valued at, say, $15 a square foot, it would be intriguing but possible.

It&#039;s simply impossible for there to be any sum of any valid reasons that would cause the parcel of land between 161st Street and 164th Street, Jerome Ave and River Ave to be worth $266 dollars per square foot more than the parcel of land in the Bronx Terminal Market project less than a handful of blocks away.  Impossible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again&#8230; both of these two plots of land are virtually the same size, they&#8217;re practically across the street from one another, neither of them has any environmental hazards or problems, they&#8217;re both well served by public transportation and utilities, they have no special tax restrictions or subdivisions or prior use, etc. etc. etc.</p>
<p>All of you raise several valid reasons why plots of land can be valued differently.  But not enough to justify a difference between $9 and $275.</p>
<p>As somebody who lived in the neighborhood and works in the neighborhood and knows these areas intimately, if the Bronx Terminal Market land was valued at $9 a square foot and the Yankee Stadium land was valued at, say, $15 a square foot, it would be intriguing but possible.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s simply impossible for there to be any sum of any valid reasons that would cause the parcel of land between 161st Street and 164th Street, Jerome Ave and River Ave to be worth $266 dollars per square foot more than the parcel of land in the Bronx Terminal Market project less than a handful of blocks away.  Impossible.</p>
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		<title>By: TONY</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/12/a-stadium-scandal-and-a-scoreboard-heads-south-6338/#comment-233685</link>
		<dc:creator>TONY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=6338#comment-233685</guid>
		<description>hey only playing we all know that Ben is big kahunna

Tony</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey only playing we all know that Ben is big kahunna</p>
<p>Tony</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/12/a-stadium-scandal-and-a-scoreboard-heads-south-6338/#comment-233682</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:41:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=6338#comment-233682</guid>
		<description>$9 per square foot for commercially zoned property sounds incredibly cheap. Unbelievably cheap. A typical 50x100 residential lot would only be worth $45,000 at that rate.

For reference, if you buy a house on a 50x100 lot in North Jersey, the land will typically be appraised at around $200,000, give or take depending on the town. That&#039;s $40 per square foot. Commercially zoned lots free of environmental issues tend to be more expensive than similar lots with residential zoning. I don&#039;t know land values in NY, but I would think land prices would be higher in NYC than in NJ.

For $9 per square foot, that property has to either be horrendously contaminated, or they&#039;re getting a pretty sweet deal on property taxes. I&#039;m voting on the latter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>$9 per square foot for commercially zoned property sounds incredibly cheap. Unbelievably cheap. A typical 50&#215;100 residential lot would only be worth $45,000 at that rate.</p>
<p>For reference, if you buy a house on a 50&#215;100 lot in North Jersey, the land will typically be appraised at around $200,000, give or take depending on the town. That&#8217;s $40 per square foot. Commercially zoned lots free of environmental issues tend to be more expensive than similar lots with residential zoning. I don&#8217;t know land values in NY, but I would think land prices would be higher in NYC than in NJ.</p>
<p>For $9 per square foot, that property has to either be horrendously contaminated, or they&#8217;re getting a pretty sweet deal on property taxes. I&#8217;m voting on the latter.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/12/a-stadium-scandal-and-a-scoreboard-heads-south-6338/#comment-233666</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:29:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=6338#comment-233666</guid>
		<description>Nothing....nothing at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing&#8230;.nothing at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/12/a-stadium-scandal-and-a-scoreboard-heads-south-6338/#comment-233653</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:22:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=6338#comment-233653</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know enough about evaluations to know how feasible a difference in evaluations under normal circumstances, but you can very easily pull off huge differences in value between two properties in the same neighborhood.

Residential vs Commercial zoning laws will change the value.

A large, flat area such as what you&#039;d build a stadium on would have higher value than land on an incline.

Groundwater and/or soil contamination would greatly devalue land. Land down gradient from a contaminated site would be substantially less valuable than land up gradient.

Environmental regulations can drastically alter land values. The closer you are to a body of water, the more limited you are in what you can build on a property, which lowers property value.

The previous uses of land would drastically alter the valuation of it. Previously undeveloped land is highly valuable. Prior industrial use greatly devalues land.

While a 3,000x difference in value certainly sounds way out of line, I would expect land within a major city that&#039;s suitable for building a stadium to be scare and worth a lot more money than the land around it. Short story is you can&#039;t take two valuations and reasonably compare them without knowing a LOT about the property.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know enough about evaluations to know how feasible a difference in evaluations under normal circumstances, but you can very easily pull off huge differences in value between two properties in the same neighborhood.</p>
<p>Residential vs Commercial zoning laws will change the value.</p>
<p>A large, flat area such as what you&#8217;d build a stadium on would have higher value than land on an incline.</p>
<p>Groundwater and/or soil contamination would greatly devalue land. Land down gradient from a contaminated site would be substantially less valuable than land up gradient.</p>
<p>Environmental regulations can drastically alter land values. The closer you are to a body of water, the more limited you are in what you can build on a property, which lowers property value.</p>
<p>The previous uses of land would drastically alter the valuation of it. Previously undeveloped land is highly valuable. Prior industrial use greatly devalues land.</p>
<p>While a 3,000x difference in value certainly sounds way out of line, I would expect land within a major city that&#8217;s suitable for building a stadium to be scare and worth a lot more money than the land around it. Short story is you can&#8217;t take two valuations and reasonably compare them without knowing a LOT about the property.</p>
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		<title>By: TONY</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/12/a-stadium-scandal-and-a-scoreboard-heads-south-6338/#comment-233626</link>
		<dc:creator>TONY</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=6338#comment-233626</guid>
		<description>Whats wrong with defending Tony????????</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whats wrong with defending Tony????????</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://riveraveblues.com/2008/12/a-stadium-scandal-and-a-scoreboard-heads-south-6338/#comment-233618</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 21:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://riveraveblues.com/?p=6338#comment-233618</guid>
		<description>Not to defend Tony completely.....I do believe it is your duty to question what leadership does in your name....To a certain degree he has a point. States, cities, and municipalities often offer companies very lucrative incentives in locate or keep their business in a given city. While I&#039;m sure most of these incentives are legal in every sense of the word you could always argue that the money might have been better spent somewhere else like teachers salaries, police and fire etc. The issue the Yankee&#039;s and other sports franchises run into is the very negative perception people have of publicly financed stadium deals. I&#039;m sure the good people of Tennessee didn&#039;t see the nearly $580 million dollars the state gave Volkswagon to build a new plant there. 

Sports franchises should have the same access to incentives that other business do. They keep jobs at home, create short term increase in local employment, add certainly add to the local economy. IN NO WAY do I condone inappropriate and potentially illegal activities as a means to achieve some sort of corporate parity but I understand what Tony was trying to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to defend Tony completely&#8230;..I do believe it is your duty to question what leadership does in your name&#8230;.To a certain degree he has a point. States, cities, and municipalities often offer companies very lucrative incentives in locate or keep their business in a given city. While I&#8217;m sure most of these incentives are legal in every sense of the word you could always argue that the money might have been better spent somewhere else like teachers salaries, police and fire etc. The issue the Yankee&#8217;s and other sports franchises run into is the very negative perception people have of publicly financed stadium deals. I&#8217;m sure the good people of Tennessee didn&#8217;t see the nearly $580 million dollars the state gave Volkswagon to build a new plant there. </p>
<p>Sports franchises should have the same access to incentives that other business do. They keep jobs at home, create short term increase in local employment, add certainly add to the local economy. IN NO WAY do I condone inappropriate and potentially illegal activities as a means to achieve some sort of corporate parity but I understand what Tony was trying to say.</p>
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