Analyzing the opt-out clause

Heyman: Yanks ready to go $80M and five for A.J.
Witching hour rumors: The four pitchers and Manny

So far, we’ve seen a lot of takes on the apparent three-year opt-out the Yanks are going to include in CC Sabathia‘s rather large contract. While some people like it and others don’t, I think Ken Davidoff’s take earlier this afternoon is the most pragmatic. He writes:

As long as CC is healthy in three years, he’ll be gone, you’ve got to figure. By that point, Barry Zito will have just two years remaining on his seven-year, $126-million deal with the Giants, so San Francisco should be more open to bringing him aboard.

At least with the opt-out, the whole thing is a little more honest. The Yankees and Sabathia are going to use each other – the Yankees because their homegrown guys aren’t ready yet, and Sabathia because the Giants aren’t ready yet for him. It’s a marriage of convenience.

If CC, at age 31, opts out of a guaranteed $92 million because he thinks he can land more, well then fine. As more than a few writers have noted, if he opts out, it’s because he has pitched well enough to land another big contract just as he’s entering his declining years. If the Giants or Dodgers want to pay him for that, then okay. If he doesn’t opt out because loves New York, then okay. And if he doesn’t opt out because he’s hurt, then not so okay.

Right now, it’s a marriage of convenience. By the time this becomes an issue after the 2011 season, we’ll know what we have in Joba Chamberlain, Phil Hughes, Andrew Brackman, Dellin Betances and a whole host of young arms. Only then will we know if the Yanks gambled properly, but my guess is that they did.

Heyman: Yanks ready to go $80M and five for A.J.
Witching hour rumors: The four pitchers and Manny
  • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

    Greg Genske has established himself as a pretty formidable agent.

    Btw how were those finals?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Today’s was not too bad. Thanks for asking. Still have one more on Monday and another on Thursday.

      • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

        good luck!

  • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

    I agree with your overall point, Ben, but just to be a nitpicking prick, I would think the Yankees would be better off knowing what they have in Ian Kennedy and Zach McAllister because of the duo’s proximity to the major-league level. If Joba Chamberlain and Phil Hughes develop into above-average starters, Kennedy and McAllister reach their respective potentials as dependable, middle-of-the-rotation workhorses then the development of Andrew Brackman and Dellin Betances would be quite minuscule in the decision-making process.

    Also, how interesting is it going to be when Chien-Ming Wang is up for free agency? Is anyone present of the thought that the Yankees should/will delve into negotiations with CMW’s reps about a long-term pact? I say yes. I know we have guys in the system with higher ceilings than CMW, but the fact that he’s assimilated himself as an above-average workhorse in the American League (sans 2008, obviously), I don’t see why we shouldn’t try t lock him up.

    • Ivan

      You neva wanna look ahead of ya self but at the same time you gotta prepare yourself in the future.

      CMW is an interesting case. Wang has been when healthy one of the better pitchers in the AL and has gotten underrated of how good he is. Considering what guys like AJ, Lowe and even Big Z (lets be real, CMW is just as good as Big Z and Big Z is sorta overrated) CMW if his agent does his HW could get a really big deal.

      I think the main guys for the yanks are Hughes and Joba. Those 2 are key of how the yanks are gonna do in the future. If those guys reach their potential and become front-line guys in 3 years give the yanks some flexibility and some interesting decision making in the future.

    • Manimal

      Long term yes, but nowhere near CC or Johan kind of money. Maybe 5 years 80 million ish.

    • Steve S

      He does have a sketchy injury history with shoulder problems in the minors and he doesnt hit free agency until after age 30. I love Wang (good thing this isnt recorded) but at this point, I would wait for him to get to free agency and pay market for him. Like you said with the other guys coming up, there may not be as much of a necessity. The most you can buy out is the next two years of arb and maybe one year of free agency. Unlike Cano who you signed through his premium years, Wang may not be worth it. Now if they did it would it be terrible? No, but at this point not a priority.

  • http://pinstripespa.blogspot.com/ Dan

    just don’t buy a sabathia jersey

    • blee

      if sabathia can get a 5+ yr deal at 32.. good for him.. otherwise.. we would have him til he’s 36.. im fine with that.

  • UWS

    Excellently well put, Ben. In the words of TSJC, this is the drum I’ve been beating ever since the news of the opt-out came out.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      As long as we agree that it’s not a bad thing and Cashman’s not a stupid SUX0R idiot, we’re good.

      • UWS

        Yeah, I’m pretty sure we can agree on that.

  • Manimal

    It makes perfect sense to me.

    Edwin Jackson to the Tigers, which opens up a spot for David Price to Start next year. Yikes.

  • Manimal
    • pat

      money making scheme

  • zzzzz

    hell yeah. this works for me.

  • Jeff

    Ben, you left out one more option that is very bad for the Yankees. The ARod route. Sabathia pitches well, likes New York, and opts out anyway because he can get way more from the Yankees than what is left on the deal.

    • Ivan

      I think the CC potential opt out situation is pretty different from A-Rod’s opt out situation last year.

    • Steve S

      Yeah very different. One it will depend on the status of the rotation at the time , if he opts out. Two, Arod had already cleared through more than half of his K. The remaining money only meant something with respect to AAV, it was a foregone conclusion that he could get a $100M K. Plus the Yankees had no logical alternative at the position. Right now you could easily argue that in three years, assuming health, Joba will be a better pitcher (I know its a big assumption).

      I am really skeptical that if CC opts out at age 31, and is still at his current weight, that there will be teams lining up to give him $100M, even if he does extremely well. I have to say the more I think about it, the more the opt out isnt that awful.

      As the post says it can only go bad if he gets severely hurt within the next couple of years which isnt really a fair criticism because given that situation the contract would be a disaster with the opt out or without it and the difference between the sixth and seventh year wont make much of a difference in this whole debate if the guy breaks down this year or next year.

  • http://poormansanalyst.wordpress.com/ dan

    I actually just wrote about this on my blog. We had a similar opinion on it, although I wasn’t as brief.

  • Ivan

    One question guys,

    Phil Hughes: surprise performer in 09? I really think he’s gonna turn some heads and force dudes to eat crow no?

    • http://poormansanalyst.wordpress.com/ dan

      Hopefully.

      • Infamous

        Definately hopefully. But its good that he doesnt have the pressure on him to hold up the back end of the yankees rotation and he can now get more work on that cutter( i suggest he talks to mo alot).

        • Manimal

          Seriously dude, I think it was Gammons that had him as a Cy young candidate last year before the season started, he had that high of an expectation.

          • Ivan

            Gammons did that on purpose to fuck him up.

    • Manimal

      I have that feeling too, like next year he will just wake up and establish himself as an effective major league pitcher.

    • Old Ranger

      You got it right. He will be Jobas’ back-up and injury man (or sixth starter, which ever). Of course, that is if they sign two more pitchers. 27/09.

  • http://incumbentgm.wordpress.com The Third Yip-Yip, Formerly the Yankee Clipper

    I don’t understand why people are saying that he is going to rip us if he’s hurt or he sucks and he doesn’t opt out. I was assuming he was going to get a six or sever-year deal anyway, and if he got hurt on that contract, we’d still be stuck with him. The opt out actually favors the Yankees in my opinion.

    • Steve H

      It’s definitely not as bad as the Red Sox network…..err ESPN is/will make it out to be. Let’s face it, if he succeeds in NY, he will not want to go anywhere else because, #1 They’ll pay him the most, and #2, there’s nothing like winning in NY for the most storied franchise in MLB.

      • Old Ranger

        Let him opt out in 3 years…IF, I say IF; Phil, Brackman, IPK, Zach McAllister, Horn, Dellin and etc., have anything to show…we will see it by then, at which time we can make an educated evaluation of their worth to the team. With that many arms, two or three will become front line starters…or trade bait. 27/09.

    • Infamous

      Why would it favor the yankees? Hes the one who controls if you opts out or not. if it was an option after three years then yea.

  • 65hughes

    the all latin club about to acquire putz

    • http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v621/134/99/513321182/n513321182_2118948_7574.jpg Nady Nation

      wow omar trading for a white guy whats that about they need to resign oliver perez to even it out

      • Chip

        maybe the nationals give milledge back

        • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

          What a horrible, idiotic trade.

          • http://incumbentgm.wordpress.com The Third Yip-Yip, Formerly the Yankee Clipper

            …..but….TEH SZCHEIDER!!1!111oneooneeleven

  • Peter Lacock

    Good thing Cashman came back. Way to close.
    If CC is 3/69, that’s great. It’s like a pricey Sheets deal.
    If CC opts out and goes west, that’s great. He musta done some good pitching.
    If CC opts out and re-signs for more money, that’s great. He must deserve it.
    If CC finishes the contract, that’s great. We get a good lefty starter for at least some portion of, if not all of the 7 years.

  • Matt M.

    Mike and Joe didnt give me any love for this during the chat..probably because its a tad far-fetched.

    but say we’re gonna give 160 for CC + 80 for Burnett + etc.

    if we consider the CC deal what it really is– 3/69 million dollars. that frees up roughly 90 million dollars, combine that with NOT offering Burnett a 80 deal– and viola, the yankees suddenly have 170 that they can put onto Teixiera’s lap.

    from there you balance the high cost of tex by buying low–and smartly on the FA market by snatching up Sheets and Pettitte–much cheaper than burnett at 80 and lowe at 60+

    so for the same $$$ we could have CC. Tex. Pettitte. Sheets. as we would have spent on CC. Burnett. Lowe etc.

    i mean we’d be EFFED in the A if CC got hurt and didnt opt out then…but we’d be in that situation regardless except it would be with or without texiera.

    for roughly the same ‘money’ we could have our cake (cc) and eat it too (tex).
    CC says YUM!

  • Mike R.

    If you took a poll on this site asking what your reaction would be to the Yankees signing CC (is it too soon to start calling him NYCC?) to a 3 year $63 million contract how many people would have objected or been against it?

    How many people are upset or unhappy with the reported 7 year $161 million contract?

    The way I see it we have one of those two options we just don’t know which one yet, so how bad can it be. No matter how it breaks down I’ll take it.

    • pat

      NYCC.. i like it

  • yankeefan91 Sign ,burnett or sheets and manny

    Under terms of the deal, the Mets would get Putz, outfielder Jeremy Reed and reliever Sean Green. The Mariners would receive reliever Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first baseman Mike Carp from the Mets. They’d also get Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians and minor leaguers. The Indians would get reliever Joe Smith from the Mets and infielder Luis Valbuena from Seattle

  • MikeD

    The opt-out clause is of no importance. All it does is give CC some control over his future, and that’s his right. The Yankees, I’m guessing, gave it to him as an incentive to come to NY. I hope that he actually uses it in three years, because that means he’s been an effective pitcher. If it means he flees west, so be it; if it means he gets more dollars from the Yankees, so be it. Right now, we have our front-end-of-the-rotation pitcher for the next three years, and that’s all the Yankees cared about, and that’s all we as fans should care about, too.

    • pat

      CC was insistent on an opt out clause no matter what team he signed with. He had asked the brewers for one too.

  • 65hughes

    wtf gammons saying that cc will be fine in ny it seems like he wants to cry

  • leo

    But by then the Giants will have to pay Lincecum.

    • pat

      Nah we’ll take timmy off their hands and they can 30 yr old CC.

  • steve (different one)

    if CC is opts out, it will likely mean that he was awesome for the Yankees and will go down as one of the best contracts in franchise history.

    it will mean they purchased the age 28, 29, and 30 seasons of a #1 starter without having to take anything after age 30.

    • Slugger27

      thats exactly what it means… i would think the yankees wouldve been ecstatic just to sign a 3/70 deal in the first place… its HALF their initial offer

      if he wins 2 cy youngs and then bolts… oh well, we still had those great seasons

      and people need to realize, just cuz he dominates in his age 28,29,30 seasons, doesnt mean hes guaranteed to dominate ages 31-34… it might be a giant blessing in disguise come that time

  • Phil McCracken

    I don’t see what the big deal is about the opt out. Its not like a position player who has a greater life span in the sport. If Cashman had offered Teixeira a contract with an opt out it would be something to criticize.

    We’re talking about a pitcher who we can utilize for 3 great years. CC knows that he can put together 3 years with great numbers in his prime and go back out on the market and get another deal its great for both sides. The Yankees get an ace without the long term deal and Sabathia gets two big paydays with more flexibility next time around from West Coast teams.

    Even if he doesn’t opt out, since we’re getting Sabathia at 28 its not like we’ve got him locked up til he’s 40. He should still be decent at 35.

  • Joe

    How is manny ramirez arm? Anyways is it strong enough to maybe have him play right?

    • Joe

      because we cant have both him and matsui dh

    • Phil McCracken

      No he doesn’t have a strong enough arm to play right and neither does Damon.

  • Andy In Sunny Daytona

    What if CC would have just signed a plain 3 year contract? Would all of the “experts” on ESPN still say that it was a bad deal?

    • Slugger27

      of course, cuz then the yankees would have screwed themselves by only signing a badass pitcher for 3 years when they could have him longer… stupid fools

  • Thomas

    MLBTR is reporting some Yankees members are pushing for Manny.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/manny-ramirez-1.html

    That would be a great boost to the lineup.

    • Joe

      what are we going to do with matsui then

      • VO

        move johnny to center matsui dh and manny in left?

      • Slugger27

        who cares

      • Thomas

        Trade him? Put him on the bench? Play Damon in center?

        The real question is do you expect Matsui to match or even come close to Manny’s numbers?

        • Joe

          hes not but you cant just pay him to do nothing

          • VO

            true considering matsui is making 13 mill

            • Steve H

              For only 1 more year. Get him healthy and trade him for a low level prospect, pick up the salary. Problem solved.

              • Slugger27

                my problem with this is.. if theyre gonna pay the salary, why not just keep him and use him? the guy can still hit, and if theyre eating the contract, it doesnt really benefit them to trade him away for nothing… he can still DH at a respectable level i would think

          • Thomas

            You mean like we payed him last year for nothing. He is still going to get playing time if he is the 4th OF, because they won’t play Gardner everyday.

            • Thomas

              Additionally, Matsui is only on the team one more year. He is not part of the long term plan and will need to be replaced either this year or next year. So we can try and get Manny somewhat cheap or over pay for Holliday or Crawford (prefer Crawford to Holliday).

        • thisisthedavid

          IF your going to spend Manny money get a first basemen till 2014

          or just throw tex a opt out clause on there and we will have tex through his prime….

  • Slugger27

    by far and away the VERY MOST IMPORTANT part of the opt out clause is that if he does opt out we can offer arb and definitely wind up with 2 draft picks!!!!!!!

  • VO

    9:57pm: Tony Massarotti indicates the Red Sox are out and Burnett will choose between the Yankees and Braves. Jerry Crasnick says that if the Yankees sign Burnett, a third free agent rotation addition would likely be a short-term guy like Ben Sheets as opposed to Derek Lowe.

    it looks like were getting this guy

    • Thomas

      Additionally Rosenthal is saying the Yanks are offer $91 million over 5 year. Please, no!

      • Slugger27

        thats scary… i dont even want him for 5/80

  • 65hughes

    no burnett cash dont kill the good karma we need the braves to step up to the plate

    • Slugger27

      you are a “sign ben sheets” guy im assuming?

  • 65hughes

    well sort of im more of a trade for peavy but i would rather have sheets than burnett

    • Steve H

      Because Peavy wants to be a Yankee right?

      • Slugger27

        ppl had the same doubts about cc, but u do have a point

        to me, its not about his desire or lack thereof, its more about the fact that wed have to give up our own players… just doesnt seem very wise when we could just sign pitchers in FA and give up some draft picks ((and now 2nd and 3rd rounders since we already gave up the 1st for CC))

    • Slugger27

      i dont want lowe or burnett, but given the choice ill take lowe… call it what u will but id rather have the innings/consistency… and i know burnett has filthy stuff but i just cant get past his non-yankees ERA, its just mind-boggling someone with that stuff and that many strikeouts can give up that many earned runs

      the only “must do” move for the yankees is resigning andy for 1/12… after that, its just looking for what u think is the best deal in relation to the pitcher that wants it… ((and no im not an advocate for manny))

      • whozat

        “but i just cant get past his non-yankees ERA”

        What about the fact that he’s thrown ONE season of 200 plus innings in the last four years? How could ANYONE want to give 5 years to a guy like that, no matter HOW good he is?

        • Slugger27

          i mentioned that, right before i said “call it what u will but id rather have the innings/consistency”

          i totally agree… if were gonna take on risk, it should be for a guy a lot better than burnett…. ppl can throw the “he can throw 98 and has electric stuff and led the AL in Ks” argument at me all they want… but where did all that get him?

          it got him to a era+ of 105, a 4.07 era ((not counting the yanks its more like 4.40)) and a whip of 1.34

          so basically, in his healthiest season in years, he put up slightly above average numbers ((and yes i dont consider those numbers anything more than slightly above average)) …. does that mean these numbers are what we are HOPING for?

          • Steve H

            and a players prime is usually 28-32, so Burnett is now coming out of what was his “prime”.

            • Slugger27

              i just feel like the best we can expect out of him is what he gave the blue jays this year… he was healthy, durable, and was in a contract year… those 3 things combined give him the best possible situation he could be in to pitch well… and he STILL delivered only slightly above average numbers

              i just dont get the big attraction… ok the dude throws 98 at times… get over it

  • http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v621/134/99/513321182/n513321182_2118948_7574.jpg Nady Nation

    We’ve upped our offer to 5-91 for Burnett. Kill me

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8922020/Wednesday-MLB-winter-meetings-blog

    • Steve H

      Suicide pact? Just think though. Imagine if we went 5/91 on Burnett and didn’t get CC?

      • http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v621/134/99/513321182/n513321182_2118948_7574.jpg Nady Nation

        Good Mo. Would 6/130 have been out of the question?

      • whozat

        I just don’t understand the urgency for Burnett when CC is already on board. They got their horse…plugging Pettitte and Sheets/Lowe in gives you a really good rotation behind CC/Wang/Joba

        Of course, we’re treating these rumors like they’re gospel and they certainly aren’t.

        • Steve H

          I agree with you and hope that you are right.

        • christopher

          maybe an indication that lowe is going elsewhere, or maybe the team has offers out to lowe and burnett and is waiting to see who takes the offer first.

          cat wait for the yankee/met comparisons…why the mets adding krod and putz is better than CC, Burnett/low, and Sheets because krod and putz will pitch in more games

          • kimonizer

            That already happened earlier today with Kruk on ESPN saying that the Rodriguez signing was better and more important than the Sabathia signing.

    • Slugger27

      if it means we didnt sign that deal… i might look into it… where do u live?

    • Ivan

      That contract is better than what Moose got 8 years ago and Burnett isn’t even half the pitcher Moose is. Yikes.

      • whozat

        Seriously. Signing AJ Burnett until he’s 37??? WHY!??! You can find 160 innings of a 2:1 K:BB ratio for a LOT less money, on a MUCH shorter commitment.

        Not that K:BB is all that matters, but I think my point stands. We’re looking to sign a 3/4 starter. How does spending this kind of money on a guy this unreliable for this many years make sense?

        Maybe Sheets’ medicals are pretty bad (still…I’d go to Lowe in that case). Maybe these are only rumors from Burnett’s agent. I dunno. But I just can’t see how this would make any sense.

        • christopher

          could have stopped at AJ Burnett until he is 37 and stoppedf there.

          I just dont get this – reminds me a lot of the Jaret Wright signing. That year I was actuall (ashamed of myself) happy about the pavano deal, but I tried to in my own mind take something good out of the wright signing – not let it ruin the offseason.

          To think burnett maybe a yankee longer than CC is just nausiating. They must really think he turned a corner on his career

  • 65hughes

    yes because peavy wants the pinstripes (sarcasm again)

    • Steve H

      Do you see the little “Reply to this comment” on each post? If you click on that, then write, you actually reply to the comment that you are…….replying to. Wonderful concept.

      • UWS

        I already tried telling him that…for some reason he continues to not do it…

        • Steve H

          Maybe the 3rd time will be the charm.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            maybe not dude i dont roll like that

  • 65hughes

    no burnett im about to die i still have hope that this is false or that the braves will step up

  • UWS

    Normally I love Cashman, but if this Burnett deal goes through as reported (5/91), it’ll go down as one of the most spectacularly idiotic moves of all time.

    • whozat

      65hughes…look! I just REPLIED to this comment. It’s AWESOME!

      • Infamous

        hahaha that was pretty fun but everyones raggin on him poor guy

      • 65hughes

        very funny

      • andrew

        oo oo let me try!!

  • 65hughes

    oh okay

    • Steve H

      catching on now

  • http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v621/134/99/513321182/n513321182_2118948_7574.jpg Nady Nation

    uws is this the reply button i think it is but im not sure

    • UWS

      I did not enjoy this comment

      ;-)

  • Mike R.

    u r dum

    • 65hughes

      no

      • http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-snc1/v621/134/99/513321182/n513321182_2118948_7574.jpg Nady Nation

        YES! THERE IT IS! Good job 65Hughes!

      • UWS

        VICTORY!!!

        • Mike R.

          You’re welcome. ;)

  • Infamous

    la la

  • pat

    If I wake up tomorrow and see we signed burnett 5/91, ill probably barf in my cheerios.

  • Mike R.

    no not you

  • Stryker

    cardinals and yankees talking about a swap of ankiel for kennedy. baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad move.

    • Mike R.

      Bad for whom?

    • Steve H

      Who is bad for? Personally I don’t think I’d make the trade from a Yankees perspective in that you’re selling low on IPK and buying HiGH on Ankiel, but I don’t think it’s a landslide either way.

      • Stryker

        1 year of ankiel =/= 5 years of cost controlled kennedy.

        i’d really like to see him get a second shot.

    • pat

      link?

    • Slugger27

      yes for the yankees

    • christopher

      seems like a pretty fair deal for both teams especially considering that if the yanks sign three pitchers (or even two) Kennedy has no place.
      He is 24 and in a couple of years will have little to no value because of his age and the percieved loss of the “prospect” tag

  • 65hughes

    my good day is starting to turn sour with this ridiculous burnett offer

  • Steve H

    Agree to a point, but I certainly think CC outweighs Burnett, in more ways than one.

    • Ivan

      Agreed.

  • Mike R.

    Does anyone have a read on this Mets, M’s, Indians orgy? I don’t get what Seattle got out of this.

    • Stryker

      According to a recent update from Ken Rosenthal at FoxSports.com, the Mets will get J.J. Putz, OF Jeremy Reed and reliever Sean Green; The Mariners will get Aaron Heilman, OF Endy Chavez, 1B Mike Carp and OF Franklin Gutierrez, plus minor leaguers from the Indians; while the Indians will get RHP Joe Smith and infielder Luis Valbuena.

      • Reggie C.

        That’s an incredible pick-up. Putz will be the most dominating set-up man in the NL.

    • Tom

      Okay so the Mets have every inning covered except the 7th. Schoeneweis will blow it for them lol

      • andrew

        they will sign hoffman, dont worry.

  • josh

    the beauty of this is that they still have the young guns that they would not if they traded them (i.e., for johan).

  • Slugger27

    i really dont see the braves topping 5/91 …. it looks like he could be a yank before i wake up tomorrow

    • 65hughes

      no that report has to be false

      • Slugger27

        on mlbtr tim linked to ken rosenthal about the yanks offering 5/91… but then when i clicked on it, it only said they offered 5 years and rosenthal never gave a dollar amount…. strange

  • BigBlueAL

    I understand people not wanting to sign Burnett to a 5 yr deal. I agree it is too much. BUT what I dont get is people dont mind signing a 36 yo Lowe to a 4 yr deal but complain about giving a 32 yo Burnett, mind you with an injury history obviously, a 5 yr deal.

    5 yr/91 million is pretty ridiculous, but if Atlanta is offering 5 yr/80 million obviously there is a legit competitor in signing Burnett, unlike with CC. Signing Burnett does not in any way overshadow the CC signing or make it less satisfying. Just enjoy the fact that the Yankees would at the moment have a rotation of all pitchers who throw in the low to mid 90’s and all have filthy stuff….

    • Slugger27

      http://riveraveblues.com/2008/12/davidoff-on-ccs-opt-out-6269/#comment-226161

      that and the comment i wrote 2 posts below it… thats why i personally dont like the signing… and its not that i want lowe, its just that i think he is the lesser of 2 evils

      • BigBlueAL

        Fair enough, and I kinda agree anyway!

    • Ivan

      Hey I don’t want both period but I had a feeling that AJ Burnett would be a yankee anyway.

      • BigBlueAL

        Yeah you know what me too. I guess since I am not surprised I dont care about the money/years they would be giving Burnett. If anything, Im more surprised that a team like the Braves would give him 5 yr/80 mil.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          I understand people not wanting to sign Burnett to a 5 yr deal. I agree it is too much. BUT what I dont get is people dont mind signing a 36 yo Lowe to a 4 yr deal but complain about giving a 32 yo Burnett, mind you with an injury history obviously, a 5 yr deal.

          A.J. Burnett, career ERA+: 111
          Derek Lowe, career ERA+: 122

  • http://incumbentgm.wordpress.com The Third Yip-Yip, Formerly the Yankee Clipper

    Damn, would have rather brought back Pettitte in addition to a 2/3 year deal for Ben Sheets.

    Then again, in a short series, CC/Wang/AJ/Joba would be better than the ’04 Red Sox, ’01 D’Backs rotations…

    …or even CC/Wang/AJ/Sheets (personally I would have Sheets in the 3rd slot, but AJ and his big contract would get that priority of course).

    Either way, it looks like the Yanks could have A). a better rotation than Boston, B). a better bullpen than Boston, and C). a comparable offense to Boston.

    IF the Sux get Tex, I don’ think that would make them far-and-away more potent than us. Ortiz is declining rapidly, Youkilis had a career year, Drew is getting older and is injury-prone, and as of this moment they aren’t getting much from C or SS (assuming Youk moves to 3rd).

    The Yanks, on the other hand, have a lot of options, nobody is really a huge health risk outside of Matsui (essentially our Ortiz) and Posada. I really would like to bring in one of Dunn/Tex/Manny though, we need one guy in addition to Swisher.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Your new commenter name is amazing.

      • http://incumbentgm.wordpress.com The Third Yip-Yip, Formerly the Yankee Clipper

        Bywah?!?!?! I thought my email was HIDDEN!!!! lol, not from teh lawman!

    • Reggie C.

      Jason Bay is still on the RS last time I checked. You put Teixiera next to Bay and that’s a 1-2 punch you do not find on the Yanks. The offenses aren’t comparable.

      • BigBlueAL

        Well the Yankees will still have by far the best hitter among the teams in Arod. Remember, 09 is an odd year, that means an MVP season from Mr. Madonna!!!

      • http://incumbentgm.wordpress.com The Third Yip-Yip, Formerly the Yankee Clipper

        Yeah, I like me some Bay, but if you look at his very odd ’07, it tells me that Swisher is a candidate to really have himself a bounce-back year much in the vein of Bay in 2008.

  • Slugger27

    anyone have a link for the 5/91 the yanks offered?? i cant find it

  • christopher

    if the sox get Tex than I can absolutly see the yanks jumping on manny. if not him than dunn. surprised i havent seen anything regarding their interest in him.

    In this market, it behooves the yankees to sign another bat, maybe two depending on their age even if it means matsui loosing his spot or creating a situation where they use swisher as a super utility guy (if they got dunn) having him move between OF and 1B to rest guys

    the market is down so far that there will be offensive guys going to teams really cheaply and probably a lot of teams wanting to trade the guys they have. Cameron making 10 million next year all of the sudden doesnt look too good when Adam Dunn or Abreu may have to settle for 10 million

    • Slugger27

      ill take dunn over manny… dunn will ((presumably)) cost less, not cost a draft pick, and is still in his prime years

      plus, call me lame and yell and scream over and over about how character doesnt mean anything all u want… but a guy that has allegedly quit on his teammates and faked injuries to be more serious than they were is not a type of player id like in the clubhouse

      considering all the pieces of the puzzle, ill take dunn

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Adam Dunn, career wOBA: .383
        Manny Ramirez, career wOBA: .420

        … no amount of “character” in the world is worth that difference.

  • josh

    the offense is lacking right now. if we can bing back pettitte and someone for #5 at a cheap price i would be happier than 2 of lowe, sheets,or burnett if we can get some more offense. right now we have big holes at cf, rf, and 1st. swisher/damon/nady/gardner/melky/matsui are all ok but all have question marks. even posada has question marks this year. maybe we should explore what abreu wants (he is very steady and normally healthy)

    • http://incumbentgm.wordpress.com The Third Yip-Yip, Formerly the Yankee Clipper

      If Swisher sticks at 1B primarily, Nady/Damon/Melky/Gardner is solid for the OF. Matsui, contrary to what the Yanks have been saying, is not somebody I would allow to touch the outfield grass. DH him and carry 2 OFs on the bench.

  • josh

    while tex is the better all around player manny instantly makes this offense SCARRY – imagine what he does for jeter cano and arod

  • christopher

    just read figgins is available via trade. He is guy that i would love to see on the yanks

  • http://incumbentgm.wordpress.com The Third Yip-Yip, Formerly the Yankee Clipper

    Looks like Minaya finally gave up on the AAAA loogy Jason Vargas:

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/mets-close-to-a.html

    Had they not made that terrible trade, maybe they wouldn’t have made this one…

  • Reggie C.

    Met fans should be very very very happy with the events of the past 24 hours. Rodriguez and JJ Putz should hold leads/ties like white on rice. There is no excuse left. The Mets ‘pen has just become a monster.

    • Phil McCracken

      If Putz can stay healthy.

  • Phil McCracken

    If Burnett can’t stay healthy at 32, he should make Pavano look like a Purple Heart winner when he’s 37.

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  • Andy

    Getting in this a little late, but I don’t see what is so terrible about the opt out clause. Everyone says it is terrible because if he gets hurt, they are stuck with him for four more years – but if he gets hurt, they’re stuck with him for four more years regardless of whether he has an opt out clause or not. That is the risk with a long deal. So the worst case scenario is he pitches really well for you for three years, and then opts out. Big whoop. You get three great years of a guy in his prime, and don’t have to pay him $100 mil as he begins his decline. I think the reports of it being a terrible idea are way over blown.

    Consider this scenario no one talks about, which is probably the most likely of all the scenarios: he pitches great for three years, opts out, signs with San Fran, and blows his arm out. Then the Yanks look great. Everyone was so shocked that he got seven years, and that he is too fat so he’ll break down – well, the Yanks eliminated some of that risk by providing a way out of the last four (and riskiest) years of his contract.