Evening rumors: Cameron deal back on

Cashman may issue an ultimatum to Andy Pettitte
Manny being ridiculous

As the Yanks near a deal with A.J. Burnett, the trade talks for Mike Cameron are back on, according to multiple reports. This is almost as fun as the now-dead Jake Peavy-to-the-Cubs deal. Anyway, use this as a blanket open thread as sorts. If nothing else happens tonight, you won’t be hearing from me for a few hours.

Cashman may issue an ultimatum to Andy Pettitte
Manny being ridiculous
  • http://conservationvalue.blogspot.com Jon G

    Meh. Well, then we can have Gardner off the bench for speed and/or in the OF rotation.

    It’s clearly a bridge to AJAX that they thought was better then Melky. But given what Melky’s done in the past, he could easily come back with a .300 season this year… Or he could go the way or Ledee, or Juan Rivera. In his case, I don’t think he’ll end up like Shane Spencer, who is going to be an extra in the next Chuck Norris movie.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      I don’t see your second part. Given what Melky’s done in the past, odds are that he’ll be a below average offensive performer and create more holes in the Yankee lineup than he fills with defense that was vastly overrated to begin with.

      • TheLastClown

        He can only ride that over-the-wall Manny-rob so long

    • A.D.

      Melky doesn’t even have a .300 career avg in the minors… there is no reason to believe he will suddenly hit

      • RollingWave

        that’s not the best argument either, plenty of very good players hit much better in the majors than minors, and almost all of them were guys that tend to moved through the minors at a young age and reached the major at a young age much like Melky.

        exhibit A. the other M. Cabrera (Miguel) 286 /.346 /.431 in the minors

        exhibit B. Grady Sizemore .289 /.371 /.411

        That’s not to say that Melky can hit eventually, (though I’d think he’ll definately hit more than 08 in given the chance) but that the logic “he didn’t hit much in the minors so he won’t hit much in the majors” is flawed

    • celerinosanchez

      I heard the yanks might take Hall off their hands as well? I’m not sure targeting a bunch of guys that strike out 125+ times in 400 ab’s is the way to go. Have they not realized that guys that strike out a lot against everybody strike out even more against playoff caliber pitching? That is why this team has choked it up so much over the last several years in the playoffs. Good things happen when you put the ball in play. Give Gardner a chance.

      • Andy In Sunny Daytona

        Well, I just read this little blurb on ESPN:

        “Ben Sheet’s IQ=107″

        Are You Smarter Than Ben Sheet? Take Our IQ Test Now!

        He’s just a couple points higher than me. No Way!!

  • Flynn

    Cameron sucks..

    • VO

      25 hrs for a cf isnt to shabby

    • 65hughes

      agreed the braves have to sign burnett and the yanks have to concentrate on peavy now that towers is vunerable

      • Joey H

        For the last time PEAVY ISN’T GOING TO BE A YANKEE!

        • 65hughes

          hahahaha i love it

        • JD

          Well Peavy isn’t going to be a Cub or Brave either. The way things have gone the Padres have to trade him. By the way, I DON’T WANT MIKE CAMERON!

      • http://incumbentgm.wordpress.com The Third Yip-Yip, Formerly the Yankee Clipper

        Why? He’s still not going to be cheap. IPK and Melky (if he’s even around) is not going to get it done. And, Peavy will be no bargain on the payroll in a few years.

        • DonnieBaseballHallofFame aka they guy who has well documented history of belligerent thickheadedness and anti-intellectual character assassinations

          The reason that Peavy is still not traded is because you can get Sheets for JUST money and nobody has even done that yet. Does Sheets even have ONE firm offer?

          There is NO money out there right now. Outside of the Yanks nobody can make more than one money deal this year (the Angels could but wont)

      • 65hughes

        wait agreed that cameron sucks

      • VO

        you know for a hughes fan you sure do like the thought of filling all the wholes in the rotation so theres no room for hughes

        • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          Remember the last time the Yankees had 5 starters who made all their starts and nobody from the minors was called upon to spot-start or take a spot in the rotation for an extended period of time?

          • kenthadley

            1947

          • Bryan

            That would be 2003. I’m really looking forward to not seeing any fill-in players this year.

    • http://incumbentgm.wordpress.com The Third Yip-Yip, Formerly the Yankee Clipper

      Kid: “Mortal Kombat on Sega Genesis is the best video game ever .

      Billy Madison: “I disagree. It’s a very good game, but I think Donkey Kong is the best game ever.”

      Kid: Donkey Kong sucks!

      Billy: You know something YOU SUCK !

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Also, he may not be the most amazing CFer around, but he hasn’t had an OPS+ under 103 since 1998. At least, he’ll be serviceable. Outside of Johnny Damon, Yankee center fielders were fairly terrible in 2008.

      • http://incumbentgm.wordpress.com The Third Yip-Yip, Formerly the Yankee Clipper

        According to Fangraphs, Cameron was average in CF (according to ZR and RF). Sounds better than Damon.

        • Brooklyn Ed

          Cameron lost a step or 2 in his defense. although Melky isn’t hitting, he still could got his defense and his zone rating is in the 9s.

  • TheLastClown

    Is it that Cash wanted the Brewers to eat some salary in exchange for another player?

    The Brewers seem to want another player, but obviously are dumping salary, so could it be that they actually take Igawa?

    I can’t see Cash eating the salary *as I expect will happen* AND giving up anything of quality to go with Melky.

    Maybe I’m not on track here, but I sure would love to get rid of Igawa

    • Joey H

      Wouldn’t Igawa count as salary eating in essence?

      • TheLastClown

        Yeah, you’re right. And it would be $12M I think for the remainder of Igawa’s contract. Can’t see the Brewers doing that, oh well.

      • DonnieBaseballHallofFame aka they guy who has well documented history of belligerent thickheadedness and anti-intellectual character assassinations

        If they will take Igawa and we split the difference between his money and Cam’s I think that is a good deal for everybody.

        I think Igawa could be a mop up man or 5th starter possibly in the NL.

        I still for the record do not want yet another PED guy though.

        • jsbrendog

          they’re allped guys, calm yourself

  • Brooklyn Ed

    techincally, the Yanks would still be under payroll if acquired Teixeria. let’s say Burnett accepted our offer, so 16 a year for him. Sign Sheets for 3/45, so 15 a year for him. 16 + 15 + 23 (CC) + 25 (Teixeria) = 79 million. the Yanks could afford him, and keep the team from being a $200 million team.

    • Matthew

      I don’t think Tex will command a 25M salary, more along the lines of 20…but at least 7 years…

      And dear God, please let the Brewers take Igawa…

    • Matthew

      oh, also add 7M from Giambi and Pavano’s opt outs…

      • Brooklyn Ed

        if the Yanks want to snag Texieria from the Sox and the Nationals atthe last minute, Cashman would offer a couple of million more than the Nationals.

    • Ed

      I think your estimates are too low. Pulling numbers here from MLBTR’s offseason outlooks, we get

      Posada, Molina, Cano, Jeter, A-Rod, Damon, Matsui, Nady, Wang, Rivera, Marte, Bruney, Swisher = $131.2m

      That’s before arbitration raises for Nady, Wang, and Bruney. Add in the guys you mentioned and we’re at $210 million + arbitration raises. We also only have 3 relievers, 2 outfielders (3 if you count Matsui), and no backup infielder.

      Realistically, you’d be talking at least $220m, probably closer to $230m, to fill out the roster with the signings you suggested.

  • http://conservationvalue.blogspot.com Jon G

    With the Ajax – Cameron comparisons, maybe they are bringing Cameron in as a mentor…

  • Brooklyn Ed

    MLBTR:

    ESPN is reporting that the White Sox signed Wilson Betemit to a one-year, $1.3MM contract. Betemit, acquired by the Sox in the Nick Swisher trade, will likely spend some time at third base for Chicago, who hasn’t re-signed Joe Crede.

    I knew it that Betemit would be their 3B, and Josh Field wouldn’t get any love. Guillen will curse even more than he does in a season when Betemit butchers every play.

    • K.B.D.

      I’m guessing Betemit’s first at bat and last at bat with the White Sox ends with a swinging strike out. It’s his trademark.

      • TheLastClown

        His first Yankee AB was a HR

        • http://incumbentgm.wordpress.com The Third Yip-Yip, Formerly the Yankee Clipper

          I remember Girardi saying in the booth that he hits it “just to the left of the 408 mark” in center, and sure enough, that’s where the ball went.

    • pat

      wouldn’t suprise me to see betemit have a pretty decent season. he’ll probably only hit .250 and K a shitload but he could park 20-25 if given a full seasons AB’s

      • Brooklyn Ed

        oh yeah that will be a given, its just his defense is scary.

        • RichYF

          Ahhh the defense of Betemit.

          I lost faith in him the game he played third and committed approximately 83 errors. A-Rod could have done better on one leg.

        • pat

          It doesn’t help he started at third that game igawa pitched against detroit. It was like an all out aerial barrage, his life was in danger that night.

  • Ivan

    So lets say that Pettitte doesn’t sign and the yanks sign Burnett, yanks rotation would potentially look like this:

    CC
    Wang
    Joba
    Burnett
    Hughes/IPK/Aceves?

    • TheLastClown

      CC
      Wang
      Joba
      Burnett
      Sheets

      If theres any truth to the AJ/Lowe & Andy/Sheets rumor

      • Ivan

        I can’t see the yanks adding Burnett and Sheets to the same rotation. That wouldn’t make sense considering their checkered history in concern of being healthy.

        If Pettitte doesn’t comeback and I think he will but if he doesn’t then that 5th spot is really open until somebody wins it in ST and that could be Hughes, Kennedy Aceves and etc.

        • TheLastClown

          It’s possible that Cashman doesn’t want to have a rookie not named Joba in the opening day rotation. That is to say he’ll have one young pitcher, who’ll need starts skipped & spotted for him by the Hughes/IPK/Aceves trio.

          Also, if they add AJ & Sheets *which I don’t think is likely, but I’m going by the AJ/Lowe & Andy/Sheets idea* then if/when one or both of them need DL time, the other two young pitchers can step in.

          Almost like having an 8-man rotation

          • Ivan

            That’s understanable.

            Isn’t Texas going pretty on Sheets so far?

            The 5th spot and I think you will agree is Andy spot IF he wants it. If he doesn’t accept the paycut then most likely he leaves and it wouldn’t surprise me if that spot is open in ST for guys to battle it out.

    • Manimal

      yeah. The yanks NEED a 4th starter and they could get a 5th starter but it isn’t necessary since we could just have Hughes, IPK, Aceves, and Giese fight over it in spring training.

      • Old Ranger

        I think a few of us have been saying that all along. I don’t like the idea of having so many young guys stuck in AAA, AA. The moral of the players suffers greatly…knowing that they can’t see light at the end of the tunnel, no matter what they do. We can’t go with three rookies, or even two (as last year) but, I don’t consider Joba a rookie…he has had good success in the majors and should have more. Pitchers like Phil, Giese, Aceves, Coke and even IPK need something to fight for…not a blank wall.
        As for Cameron, he is nowhere near the defencive CF of the one we had in Sept., and I think he could hold his own this coming year…with the improvement I saw in his game 2nd time around. Obviously, the Yanks (and most of the people on this site) don’t trust him to do the job…so be it. 27/09.

      • JD

        IPK=traded or AAA for all of 2009=Not a pitcher who will make it the AL

    • pat

      Now exactly awe inspiring, 2 rookies an injury case wang and cc. I’d like to see pettite come back. His season wasn’t nearly as bad as his record would indicate, his peripherals were all pretty good.

  • Manimal

    Guess what. The peavy deal is alive again!

    Angles are in the mix now.

    • 65hughes

      tat means yanks are still in it

      • VO

        your jumping right now arent you?

        • 65hughes

          ok i admit im just doing it on purpose now

          • 65hughes

            wth manny considering retirement

            • VO

              its a desperate attempt to get an offer, everyone knows theres no chance he is retiring

              • 65hughes

                supposebly it says he feels “ignored” yeah right

      • Manimal

        seriously, no one likes the way you comment here. Shape up or leave please.

        • http://incumbentgm.wordpress.com The Third Yip-Yip, Formerly the Yankee Clipper

          Over under on his age: 14 ?

          • UWS

            I’ll take the under: 12.

          • Brooklyn Ed

            he sounds like this annoying kid from LoHud and the ProSport forums that made every post about Peavy. :(

        • pat

          Dont tell people to leave they don’t like that. No matter how annoying they are. I learned that the hard way :(

          • RichYF

            Please leave.

            • 65hughes

              no

        • Chris

          He’s not being rude, so if you don’t like it just don’t read or respond.

          • Manimal

            have you been here the past couple days? All I have seen is his comments that are obviously seking attention. I asked him nicely to leave, no ones being rude.

            • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

              The issue is that it’s appropriate for you to ask him to leave. If you have a problem with his comments, send an email to Ben/Mike/Joe and let them deal with it however they deem appropriate.

              • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                The issue is that it’s inappropriate appropriate for you to ask him to leave.

                Fixed, my bad.

        • VO

          leave the guy alone so what he likes peavy, im sure if there was a player that you really liked and there was trade rumors going around about him you would be all over the place

          • Manimal

            This is a TROLL. He is trying to start random conversation. He even admitted it
            http://riveraveblues.com/2008/12/evening-rumors-cameron-deal-back-on-6285/#comment-227412

            • TheLastClown

              I wonder if you can be tried for the crime of committing random conversation.

              And isn’t the rule “Don’t feed the trolls?” it isn’t “Burn the troll out from under the bridge*

              Trolls are people too :)

            • VO

              alright all im saying is he has just as much right to comment as you do, the only people who can kick somone off this chat is Mike, Joe, or Ben and i havent seen them complainning just give him a chance if you dont like the was he does it then just ignore his comments.

              • Mike Pop

                Wait are’nt VO and 65hughes the same guy ? Joe brought this up the other night

                • VO

                  no VO and noone important is the same guy lol 65 hughes and 34hughes is the same guy

      • Brooklyn Ed

        Peavy, Towers, and Peavy’s agent MADE IT CLEAR that he doesn’t want to come to New York.

        • JD

          Neither of them actually said that at all. Towers actually said that a deal for Peavy can be done without including Hughes for the yanks. All that has been said is that Peavy 1, will not go to boston, and 2 prefers the NL.

        • JD

          Brooklyn Ed please get your story straight!

          “He’s not a total free agent like (CC) Sabathia was,” Axelrod said of Peavy. “So maybe he’d only get $150 million. … (But) Jake’s a guy who’s not going to be intimidated by New York.”

  • UWS

    I swear, if I never hear the words “Peavy” and “trade” together in the same paragraph, I’ll be a happy person.

    The Peavy non-trade and the Cameron/Melky trade are like the bipolar boy/girlfriend who kicks you out of bed in the evening, then calls back the next day and begs for makeup sex.

    Ugh.

    • pat

      Hahah not like you’re talking from personal experience or anything.

    • TheLastClown

      Well its sort of comforting that if the Angels are stepping up their pursuit of Peavy, then they probably don’t feel confident about retaining Tex.

      It may come between us & Boston, that should be fun.

      And it was a travel day, last day for meetings, so the Melky possibili-trade is suspended until tomorrow. I personally hope Melky gets traded & flourishes in Milwaukee. Unlikely, but I can hope.

      • Ivan

        Well while I want to see the yanks go hard for Tex, I doubt cuz they sign CC and were not gonna sign both CC or Tex.

        • TheLastClown

          Well, we’ll see

    • AndrewYF

      So I heard the Yankees are going to trade for Mike Cameron. He once hit a three-run homerun off Jake Peavy.

      • UWS

        Meanie.

        • RichYF

          Supposebly.

          • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

            Awesome lol

      • TheLastClown

        Which I wouldn’t mind seeing him do in Anaheim, wearing pinstripes

    • 65hughes

      cause i see him dominate all the time over here

      • TheLastClown

        Oh, you’re from Cali? That’s why you love Hughes & Peavy? Got it.

        • 65hughes

          yes he makes dodgers look like a little league team

  • Ivan

    Well so far the yankees have added the two starters they needed and while I wanted Sheets over Burnett, I pretty much have to come to grips he’s potentially gonna be a yankee and Besides, I had a feeling during the season he was gonna be a yank so this doesn’t shock me and I’ll be surprise if he isn’t.

    So really you have one spot and that spot it’s really Andy’s spot so unless Andy doesn’t wanna come here or doesn’t wanna take a paycut, that leaves one spot open really for ST. Can’t see them signing Both Burnett and Sheets. So right now, I think it’s time for the yanks to add a bat no?

    • pat

      Yes indeed my friend. A big sexy slick fielding hits for average and power bat. Maybe a guy in his late 20’s with a clean injury slate.

      If only there were any like that on the market…..

      • Ivan

        I heard that Tex guy is a solid player.

        • VO

          nah i think he means manny

    • andrew

      Burnett hasn’t been signed yet.

  • Brooklyn Ed

    Manny Ramierz might retire!! LOL

    Manny Ramirez is growing extremely upset about the lack of suitors for his services, so much so that he has told friends he would contemplate retirement if a suitable offer doesn’t arrive soon, a person close to the situation told Newsday.

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-spmanny115960657dec11,0,548502.story

    • Ivan

      Manny being Manny.

      Heck I wouldn’t be surprise he pulls a Roger Clemens and just be a hire gun during the regular 09 season.

    • VO

      thats just hilarious

  • The Evil Dynasty

    Hahahaha at Manny considering retirement.

  • Batty

    Yay – dead bat for center field, a Carl Pavano replacement in Burnett, and a post season dud to keep A-Rod company. This team is going to suck.

    • Ivan

      Yea there gonna suck alright….suck at losing.

      • pat

        they’re not gonna not suck a not not losing

    • TheLastClown

      Dramatic irony?

    • Manimal

      A. Any bat is better than Melky’s
      B. Pavano and Burnett might seem similar but are in totally different situations.
      C. CC is a stud, not a dud.

      • Batty

        Not the stats of a stud:

        Postseason:

        http://waswatching.com/2008/10/02/carsten-charles-choker/

        CC Sabathia’s five career post-season starts:

        October 2, 2008: 3.2 IP, 6 H, 4 BB, 5 ER

        October 18, 2007: 6 IP, 10 H, 2 BB, 4 ER

        October 12, 2007: 4.1 IP, 7 H, 5 BB, 8 ER

        October 4, 2007: 5 IP, 4 H, 6 BB, 3 ER

        October 13, 2001: 6 IP, 6 H, 5 BB, 2 ER

        • pat

          Well the 2008 start came after he got 3 starts in 9 days TO GET THEM INTO THE PLAYOFFS ON HIS BACK

          Then he had one stinker in 2007 and the other three are decent.

          Unfortunately 5 games does not a trend make

        • Mike Pop

          Take it easy, Champ. Why don’t you sit this next one out, stop talking for a while

        • http://justinyates.wordpress.com justin

          It’s a good thing the post-season is only 8% of the games a team can potentially play during the course of the year and I don’t think anyone can argue he was anything but solid over the course of the other 92%. I think I’ll go with the trend of him being awesome close to 100% of the time than the fluke starts he had when his managers rode him like a whore in tijuana.

  • 65hughes

    boston’s uni UGLY

  • BigBlueAL

    Lets put aside the contract for a moment, especially since you know none of us would be actually paying it so it aint our money so who cares, and look at Burnett’s career.

    His career ERA+ is 111, not too bad. Career Whip of 1.284 and well over a 2 to 1 K/BB ratio. Yes he has only thrown over 200 innings 3 times, but he really only had 1 season where his entire season was a loss and he only threw 23 innings, which ironically enough was in 2003. Ever since that season 2008 was the only season his ERA was over 4, and it was barely over 4 at 4.07. He doesnt allow man HR’s and we know his track record vs the AL East.

    Is he worth the money he would be making??? Of course not. But is he a very good pitcher coming off his best season and is still young enough where he could string together a few more seasons like that??? Yes. Will the Yankees staff be better off with him as their #3 starter for the next few seasons??? Another big-time Yes.

    Money aside, if you just look at it as the Yankees just added AJ Burnett to their rotation w/o giving up any players, it looks like a pretty nice move.

    • Mike Pop

      I agree BigBlue, hell CC is not worth the 161 million we threw at him. I love the CC deal but pretty much all FA deals are not “worth” the money. The thought of Burnett healthy in our rotation with Wang and CC..ouch.. We could have 3 guys with 17 plus wins.. Its a great thing

      • TheLastClown

        “hell CC is not worth the 161 million we threw at him. I love the CC deal but pretty much all FA deals are not “worth” the money.”

        Maybe you have some idea that there is an objective scale by which you can measure the “worth” of any given thing, person, or in this case, baseball contract.

        Or, maybe you think you should be the judge of worthiness, the bestower of value?

        You could argue that CC wasn’t “worth” it because it wasn’t the result of competitive bidding, but that’s assuming that an auction is the best way to quantify somethings “worth”.

        Now I’m not arguing with you, I know you want and have wanted CC, but really, just because we, not in the mega-value executive baseball world with lower incomes can’t fathom throwing millions of dollars around, it doesn’t mean that the players are not “worth” their contracts. They feel they are, and the people signing the checks also feel that way, so who is anyone else to say different?

        That being said, I wasn’t and still am not convinced that AJ will turn out to be a good choice, that he won’t turn out to be “worth” all that money. But of course, it was the result of several competitive offers, so maybe thats closer to true value. I hope AJ proves me wrong, I’d love to see the pitcher who owned the Yanks this year to show up every fifth day in pinstripes, and hey, if he goes down, we’ve got the young guns, who’ll be hungry for opportunity.

    • 65hughes

      it seems you guys love burnett just like i love peavy

      • Mike Pop

        LMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS GUY IS HILARIOUS

        • 65hughes

          no more peavy i promise

      • BigBlueAL

        Its not that I Love Burnett cause I dont love him, but I do think he is pretty good and would be a nice addition to the rotation, contract aside.

        • Mike Pop

          Burnett has the arm to dominate. Potential upside>injury risk ?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=15305165&ref=profile Doug

        If you like Peavy so much WHY DON’T YOU MARRY HIM

    • whozat

      Basically, it comes down to this…I don’t expect him to age well. On a 5 year deal, I figure the Yanks get one, maybe two full seasons of health. One year is very good, one year is ok. The other three will be injury-marred, and they’ll be lucky if he’s dominant when he’s out there.

      I’d much rather take a guy who won’t be _quite_ as good, but will prevent me from having to use my 7th starter for one to two months each season.

      I mean…Let’s say they sign only Pettitte. For four months, the rotation is

      CC
      Wang
      Joba
      Pettitte
      Hughes/Aceves/Kennedy

      For two months, the rotation is
      CC
      Wang
      Pettitte
      Hughes
      Aceves/Kennedy

      Do I want someone to lengthen that? Oh, yeah. But it really doesn’t need to be AJ Burnett. You slot Lowe in front of Pettitte, that’s way less risky and still very good.

      I just don’t want to pay for AJ’s injury-riddled decline phase.

    • JeffG

      Absolutely. I love the idea of bringing Burnett on board. When he’s on he has some of the best stuff in the game. The question of health is there but the games he goes to the mound healthy he’s got the goods to blow hitters away. If he lands on the DL then Hughes comes up.

      • 65hughes

        see i would agree to sign him the last time he was a free agent but his 32 and injury history and plus 5 yr contract i thought they yanks moved on from those type of bs deals

        • JeffG

          Giardi mentioned that he believes AJ is developing into a better pitcher. I’d like to believe that may be the case.
          Age wise, 37 at the end of his contract is not the end of the world. Only two of those years will place him past Lowe’s starting point. Plus unlike Lowe he doesn’t rely as heavily on defense, which you know we don’t have.

          • whozat

            Then how come he still had a good-but-not-great K:BB rate of less than 3:1?

            People who want AJ (and I think this includes people in the Yankee organization) are letting his performance against the Yankees — and to a lesser extent the Red Sox — blind them to anything else about the guy.

            Age comparisons between Burnett and Lowe are apples-to-oranges. Burnett relies on power and a hammer of a breaking ball, and has a terrible health history. Lowe is durable and relies on a sinking fastball. Yes, the Yankee infield D is not, currently, more than average.

            However

            I again assert that 750-800 IP of, say, 4.20 ERA over 4 years is better than 700 IP of 4.00 ERA over 5 years, filling the rest with your 6/7/8 starters.

            • JeffG

              How about when 6 & 7 are two of the “big three?” I’ll take the pitcher with the stuff to excel in the AL East – that is not Lowe anymore.

  • JeffG

    For all of you who keep preaching Manny… nuts. The retard is talking of retirment because he hasn’t got the types of offers he expects fast enough. Speaks volume of his dedication to the game. Thank God Cashman seems to have his head aligned right on this issue. Hank is the only one in the organization that is dumb enough to think this guy would be worth the constant BS that he is bound to bring wherever he goes.
    Does anyone expect him to play hard 162 x 4 for the remainder of his last contract? Not me. So not worth it.

    • 65hughes

      agreed no needing manny

    • Mike Pop

      Manny hitting 4th, A-Rod hitting 3rd = well worth it. A-Rod sees fastballs over and over which he crushes. Plus its better for the postseason

      • JeffG

        He’s a headcase and how much cheaper per season do you think he’ll sign below Tex? And for those of you who want to argue the years… if Manny doesn’t get his he says he’ll retire and if he does he’ll be just as good as retired my midseason the first year of his contract.
        Money motivated, bat on his sholder watching Mo take care of business type of guy. Thanks but no thanks.

      • Batty

        Yes please – would take that in a heartbeat.

        • JeffG

          Your name says it all.

    • 65hughes

      are you saying that all he wants its the money and not playing baseball

      • Mike Pop

        Idk where I said anything close to that in my statement

        • 65hughes

          no im talking about the first statement of the G

    • Steve H

      The guy went to a team that hadn’t won in 80+ years, and won 2 rings in 7 years. I don’t care if he doesn’t play hard all the time, I don’t care if he sucks at fielding. Whatever he does, he is NOT a detriment to winning. He, in fact, helps teams win games and titles.

      • Jack

        Actually, I believe Alex Cora won all those games.

        • andrew

          Alex Cora won more than all those games. He won the hearts of young men and women across Massachussets as well.

    • christopher

      i dont see him playing hard the whole contract – okay he wont run out grunders (which, by the way was so overblown because Gammons hates sox who dont hustle. Many stars dont run hard on groundballs take a look at AROD running to first in July, remember Bonds) Unless it is a game changing moment I dont care and in fact dont want him to risk injury by running down to first.

      Now, he was a headcase and a cancer in that clubhouse, but the 1st base thing has been overkilled to the point of ridiculousness – think torre ever got on him for not running out a grounder?

      It is a short term deal, and there isnt another guy out there who makes as big an impact on this team than he does. Completely changes the lineup with one batter. The shortness of the deal, even at 3 years, allows for roster flexibility down the road. With him at least you would have an outfield under contract for next year and his offense will help what will likely be a very tough year for AJax (ton of strikeouts, but we’ll be used to that from CF by then)

      plus, is there another guyu you want up in the 9th inning of playoff game than manny?

  • VO

    BTW hughes peavy is frustrated because he wanted to be a cub

    • 65hughes

      that happens when you want to become or are a cub they always fail to deliver just ask the north side of chicago

      • VO

        lol nice one

  • VO

    you know its not really much of a major concern to me but im just pissed the mets now have 2 closers during baseball season i got used to just turning on the met game in the 8th to see a good laugh

    • 65hughes

      haha thats true
      im just remembering when they blew a 6 run lead in the 9th against the phils thats true

    • A.D.

      Their issue now is its Santana, Maine, Pelfry ….prey for rain. Tough to shut the door when there is no one to start

  • christopher

    peavy really is a little bitch…you give your GM 2 teams to deal you and take away almost all the leverage he has and then bitch when they cant complete it.

    as talented as he is I dont want him anywhere near the yankees – first he didnt want to go to the AL at all and then you read that he like the yanks more after they sign CC presumably because he doesnt want to be a number 1.

    So no AL, preeferably stay out of either eastern division, and go to a team where you dont have to be “the guy”.

    Wow what a competitor? If i am the cubs, I sign RJ for 8 million and bring him back to Lou. No reason to do anything on the Peavy front. Towers will blink and give him away in ST, but whoever gets him shouldnt think they are getting an Ace

    • Mike Pop

      ” but whoever gets him shouldnt think they are getting an Ace

      Come on now, thats not an accurate statement. This guy has dominated the NL. To say he is a bitch and not an Ace just is not right. He has great stuff, gets the strikeouts, and would have alot more wins with any offensive help at all

      • whozat

        I think it’s fair to wonder whether he’d be an “Ace” once you take him out of the best pitchers park in the weakest offensive division in baseball.

        I think he’d still put up very good numbers, but I think Yankee fans would not get the multiple-cy-young winner they expected.

        • christopher

          still a very talented pitcher, but not an ace. For me an ace isnt afraid of anything. seems to me that this guy just wants to take it easy in hte 4A league

    • TheLastClown

      Where did Peavy say he would feel more comfortable not being the #1? I read that about Burnett, but not about Peavy, could you link it?

      Also, why would you call someone a little bitch for utilizing the contract that their talent has earned them? He has a no-trade clause. That means he, because of the contract that he earned through talent & hard work, gets to dictate the terms of a possible trade. He earned that right and he’s a little bitch for using it?

      • christopher

        maybe he didnt say it and it was made-up, but there was an article stating he would want to come to ny more if
        CC signed. Unless they are friends, that tells me he doesnt want to be in a positon to lead a staff. He can dictate where he want to be dealt all he want, but his agent shouldnt be ripping towers when he didnt make a deal in a situation where he had little to no leverage

        • andrew

          I agree… Peavy rarely goes 7 innings even in that very weak division and pitcher’s heaven of a ballpark. He’d be similar to when we signed Clemens a few years ago and we were just happy to get 5 or 6 good innings of him each time out. Peavy would be a very good #2/3 guy, but I really dont trust him in the AL.

    • 65hughes
  • Thomas

    I don’t understand why the Yankees don’t push harder for Peavy. They secured the most talented and reliable starter on the market and getting Peavy would make the rotation one of if not the most dominant in mlb. CC, Peavy, Wang, Joba, and probably Pettitte. Thats a pretty nasty rotation.

    • Brooklyn Ed

      …Peavy made it clear he doesn’t want to come to NY.

      • Steve H

        Do you have this copied so you can paste it in every time someone brings this up? Keep it going, it’s necessary.

        • Brooklyn Ed

          lol ditto!

          • JeffG

            Where’s that link to the LoHud when you need it?

      • JD

        guess what?

        PEAVY NEVER SAID THAT!

    • 65hughes

      guys that aint me i made my feelings about peavy to they yanks in some long post

    • 65hughes

      though i agree replace pettitte with hughes and that would be my dream rotation but its true their are some roadblocks for that to happen

  • christopher

    its working out for manny to land in the Bronx. Sox get Texiera. Hank Hal and Cash look at the offense and say , “how can we put this much investment in the pitching and not address our offense?”

    No deal comes between him and the dodgers – Yankees offer 2 years 55 million.

    • JeffG

      I think they are finally just turning around the last five years where they forgot to say: “How can we have this kind of lineup and not address our staff?”
      We still have some great pop if our guys stay fairly healthy there will be a lot more production than we got from the same players last year. Especially if they get out of that rut of heading back to the bench every time there is a RISP.

  • Thomas

    I can’t see manny in pinstripes. I’ve hated that guy for too long. Hes an incredible hitter, but he might wake up one day and decide hes upset with something and not play or something. Can he really get along with Joe Girardi too. I would love to see the Yankees make him shave his head though.

    • Mike Pop

      OMG !! He would have to cut his hair, its the Yankee way !!!

      • Thomas

        I feel like I have to change my name not to be associated with this Thomas.

        Come on get a different name I have been posting here for months.

  • A.D.

    Interestingly, he nots that A.J. might not necessarily want to be an “ace” of a staff like he would be in Atlanta. He has the Yanks’ offer between $80-85MM.

    It appears AJ doesn’t like too much pressure

    • Ivan

      If Pressure is the problem, then he might as well go to ATL.

      • Mike Pop

        He pitches the best against the Yanks and Sox. Are those not big games ?

        • Mike Pop

          Granted they are not playoff games, or they are not in the “race” but they are probably the biggest games of his season

        • Ivan

          Be careful with that acessment. The Yankee offense was basically average and I think it’s sorta overrated to bring up he pitch well against this such and such team.

        • 65hughes

          i dont get it before everyone wanted to be a yanke or red sox and wanted the spotlight and pressure but now everyone wants to get away from it and if thats that then they should sign with kc, was or pit becasue their no more than big pressure in the playoffs

          • Steve H

            Ed Whitson says hello, and Kenny Rogers is right behind him.

      • B.George

        if he hated preassure he would have sucked versus the Yanks and Red Sox last year in his walk year none the less.

  • Ivan

    True or False:

    A rotation of CC, Wang, Joba, Burnett and Pettitte/Hughes is the best rotation in baseball?

    • Mike Pop

      If AJ puts up numbers like he did in 08.. TRUE

      • Ivan

        I wanna say true but I’ll go false. CC and Wang are gonna be dynamite, and Joba I think will pitch very well,it’s Burnett I don’t trust and the 5th spot is still in the air a little.

        • Steve H

          most 5th spots are in the air. if it’s Hughes you at least have a guy with potential to dominate starts here and there. Much more upside than most #5’s, but still sure to take some lumps along the way.

          • Mike Pop

            Hughes as a 5 is solid right now.. Hopefully in a few years he pitches like a 2 in the 4 or 5 spot

            • ceciguante

              hughes is solid as a 5 right now?

              really?

              was it his rib injury or his approximately 8 ERA that made you think so?

              • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

                Yeah. I mean, we love Hughes around here, but I don’t think we’re quite yet prepared to say he’s a solid 5. He needs to pitch well enough to earn that distinction, and he hasn’t done that since 2007.

      • Steve H

        Much rather him put up 2007 numbers.

        • Mike Pop

          Ya but Id rather have him put up the innings total and k rates and not be injured

          • Steve H

            Agree to a point. I’d rather see him around 180-190 and be fresh heading into October. Same with CC, they need to keep his inning count out of the 230+ range this year.

    • B.George

      put Joba as 5 he is going to be on innings limit

    • A.D.

      Probably the best, and think of the rotation in the AL East

      CC
      Wang
      Joba
      Burnett
      Pettitte/Hughes

      Kazmir
      Shields
      Garza
      Price
      Sonnestine

      Beckett
      Dice-K
      Lester
      Wakefield
      Buccholtz/Masterson

      Some damn good arms

    • christopher

      certainly the most balanced 1-5. Now 1-3, you can make an argument for the sox, rays, or even the muts

      • The Evil Dynasty

        i laughed very hard when i read muts lol

  • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/jake-peavy-ru-3.html (8:20PM update)

    Yo, Barry Axelrod: http://tinyurl.com/vdt34

    Where the hell does this douche-bag and his client, Jake Peavy, get off being angry at the Padres’ front office for not being able to complete a trade? Who’s dickhead of a client was/is being a little girl about the teams he would approve trade to? You are going to publicly bitch about Kevin Towers and company not being able to accomplish a deal when they basically have 17% of the other 29 clubs to work out a deal with? Like I said: http://tinyurl.com/6nsxh5

    Oh, and not only is he being a little bitch about that, but he has the ‘nads to criticze the rest of the baseball executives for their ability to “get nothing done”. Oh, really? Did CC Sabathia not sign the richest contract for a MLB pitcher, ever? Did the Mets not sign one closer and trade for another? Are you the fucking representatives for Manny Ramirez, Mark Teixeira, A.J. Burnett, Derek Lowe and Ben Sheets? Do you have any fucking clue as to what you’re talking about? So you are privy to the concrete budgets of the 30 clubs, right? You are privy to the strategies being taken by the available free agents and their respective representatives, right? Moron.

    Oh, for the last time: http://tinyurl.com/2nun9r

  • 65hughes

    well no and yes becasue those are smoe good pitchers but andy is not as good as he was once and burnett, hughes can get injured anytime

    • Mike Pop

      So can Beckett, Kazmir, anyone can get injured at any time

      • 65hughes

        but im comparing as the best rotation of mlb

  • http://www.myspace.com/earlweaverplaque Ace

    This just in…Jake Peavy is a little bitch. He limits the number of teams he will accept a trade to and then when his GM can’t work out a suitable deal he bitches about it.

    Jake – you are a baseball player. Accept a trade to whoever will take you and throw the baseball.

    • Mike Pop

      Ya go to the Rangers and pitch in Arlington……..pussy

      • http://www.myspace.com/earlweaverplaque Ace

        Go to Milwaukee and lead the staff. Yovani Gallardo is going to be a star. Thats a nice 1-2 punch.

    • Steve H

      I think the true test comes when Peavy realizes he may not get his wish to go to Chicago. Does he, stay with a horrible team and continue to lose? Or does he expand his list of teams he’d go to? It’s only December, he has every right to determine where he wants to be traded, and there’s really no rush. If he can’t stand another season in SD, he’s still got a few months to go for something to work out. Maybe it’s Feb 1st, he’s still a Padre, and he opens them up to a few more teams. If he decides he’d rather stay in SD than go somewhere with a chance to win (and probably make more $) than I’d consider calling him a little bitch. Not yet though.

      • 65hughes

        his wish is not going to be granted becasue it seems that when you deal with towers is like a cycle if you dont maek a deal with him you wont trade with him at all but if you made with him already it seems he comes back to you just look at cash his made like ten deals in the last 8 or 9 yrs

    • E-ROC

      What is up with the calling Peavy names? There is a reason he has a no-trade clause in his contract. Peavy controls his own destiny. Any sane person would want that advantage. There is a reason why players don’t want to end up with the Royals or Pirates.

      Towers screwed up this process. Atlanta’s package should’ve been accepted a long time ago, instead trying to come up with an outlandish four-team trade.

      • http://www.myspace.com/earlweaverplaque Ace

        You don’t have to end up with a small market team. How about expanding your list to all of MLB and opening up some more realistic options than making a 4 team trade or a trade to a team who is changing ownership?

        My beef is that he is complaining nothing has happened when he is only allowing a certain amount of negotiating to take place to begin with.

        • 65hughes

          i guses the idiot was in the chirstmas spirit mood when they told him he was going to be traded so he made his santa wish list and nowthats holding him back

  • VO

    today has been the most boring baseball news day all week it sucks, it seems like the biggest news we have had is that manny isnt satisfied with his offers

    • Brooklyn Ed

      sad but true. :(

  • B.George

    Everyone stop putting Joba as the 3. He is going to be on innings limit and Yanks are going to put him at the end of the rotation. Talent wise he prob will be but with the limits on his innings he is going to be a 5 this year.

    • Steve H

      #5 in April, #2 in October. Not that the 1-5 really matters in the regular season, but simply because of the innings limit that’s where he’ll line up so they can skip him here and there.

      • http://www.myspace.com/earlweaverplaque Ace

        If we get to October he should be pitching the 7th and 8th inning. No question about it.

        • Steve H

          Yes, hopefully he will be pitching 7 or 8 innings per start. Otherwise, no way in hell does Joba belong in the pen.

          • http://www.myspace.com/earlweaverplaque Ace

            If you have a lead…why would you not want the 7th, 8th and 9th GUARANTEED locked down in the playoffs?

            Give me a legitimate answer to that question and I’ll leave you alone.

            • Steve H

              If you have a lead

              The first 6 or 7 innings are more important than the last 2 or 3.

              • http://www.myspace.com/earlweaverplaque Ace

                All 4 of are other pitchers are perfectly capable of getting us to the 7th with a lead.

                No one in the bullpen can bring what Joba can for the 7th and 8th to get to Mariano.

                You’d rather have Brian Bruney and Damaso Marte pitch those innings?

                We haven’t won a world series since we had a shut down bullpen.

                1996 is the equivalent of what we have the potential to do in the playoffs right now.

                1996 – Mo 7th, Mo 8th, Wetteland 9th
                2009 – Joba, Joba, Mo

                Case closed.

                • Steve H

                  No case to be made. Why not sign CC for the 7th or 8th? Because if a guy can succeed as a starter, you make him a starter. Simple as that.

                • andrew

                  we also havent won a world series since we’ve had good starting

            • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

              Answer #1: Yeah, no way the Diamondbacks win the Series in 2001 without Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling shutting dudes down as late-inning relievers; oh, wait…

              Answer #2: Yeah, no way the Marlins win the Series in 2003 without Josh Beckett pitching out of his mind as a late-inning, stalwart reliever; oh, wait…

              Answer #3: Jeez, without Pedro Martinez and Curt Schilling coming out of the bullpen, how in the world would the Red Sox have won the 2004 Fall Classic? Oh, wait…

              Answer #4: Damn, the White Sox had an amazing bullpen: Mark Buehrle, Jose Contreras, Freddy Garcia and Jon Garland all out of the bullpen? That’s batshit insane! Oh, wait…

              Answer #5: Yeah, Chris Carpenter and Jeff Weaver really shutdown opponents out of that bullpen; God damn! Oh, wait…

              Answer #6: Josh Beckett out of the bullpen again? Holy crap moly! Oh, wait…

              Answer #7: Yep, that Cole Hamels was the best three-inning reliever I’ve ever seen! Nasty, nasty reliever; oh, wait…

              Answer #808976543567890-98768987654: Front-end starters are always more valuable than relievers, stop thinking otherwise.

        • Manimal
        • pat

          Or starting.

        • Jack

          Only if he’s pitched the first six.

    • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

      You have no idea how insignificant the order of the rotation is. Who honestly cares where people slot a guy in their projected rotations?

  • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

    You know one positive I just realized in an A.J. Burnett signing? With CC Sabathia and Chien-Ming Wand as durable, front-end starters already in the rotation, the potential effect of a Burnett injury to the Yanks’ 2009 rotation is severely lessened. If he does get injured, you still have the aforementioned Wang, and Joba Chamberlain in the rotation to provide above-average innings in assistance to Sabathia.

    So, in essence, if you look at Burnett as a luxury in the Yanks’ rotation, other than a needed asset, his potential acquisition looks quite the bit more favorable, no?

    • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

      *…Chien-Ming Wand Wang

      *…other rather than a needed asset…

    • Manimal

      Tad more favorable, but still. Lowe is the better option because he is such a workhorse pitcher and Burnett just gets hurt alot. The injuries will happen, whether its as outrageous as Pavano, time will tell.

    • E-ROC

      Add Pettitte to that mix too, then his acquisition would be even more favorable.

    • Thomas

      Yeah, that is sort of the way I have looked at it. If we hadn’t gotten CC, we would have needed Lowe for the innings. But with CC, we can go for upside.

      However, I’d still prefer Sheets, because his control and results are better for a lesser contract.

      Also, the contract (not the signing) is actually worse, because he is luxury, not a drastic need. They are overpaying for a luxury.

    • JeffG

      Plus our pen will help, plus he’s got good backup in Hughes, Aceves, Coke?, plus Pettitte who is working it out with Cash right now (knock on wood). Considering the types of performances he can give he makes our rotation scary good. And it is not like our lineup can’t put up runs. I do not expect our offense to suck as bad as it did last year – even with Abreau and Giambi gone.

    • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      Agree, Jamal. Been banging that drum for a while. My pro-Burnett arguments have always been conditioned on the Yanks first/also locking up CC. With the risk lessened in the other rotation slots, the case for adding a high-ceiling (but higher than average risk) starter to that mix is much improved.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=15305165&ref=profile Doug

      However, I thought this was the rationale behind signing Sheets, as well. It works for both guys, but Sheets is higher risk (shoulder trouble), higher reward.

    • Ivan

      That’s a solid argument.

      CC and Wang barring injuries are locks for 200+ IP which would take some pressure off Burnett. Plus, Burnett if healthy can give the yanks another 200+ IP guy as well.

    • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      Actually, sorry for replying twice to the same comment, but… Welcome to the party dude.

      I’m not being facetious, I’ve really thought it’s been strange how few people have been on the AJ bandwagon (over Lowe, etc.). I think there’s very valid arguments both for and against signing AJ, it’s just nice to see some people coming around. The argument you cited is one I also believe – Get some innings eaters in the rotation who are better pitchers than Lowe (either better talent-wise, i.e. CC, or contract-wise, i.e. Pettitte), then take your shot with the player with sick stuff and higher upside – AJ Burnett.

  • Manimal

    Wow look at how the yankees and sox line up in a playoff series.

    Game 1:CC vs Beckett, battle of the beasts
    2 Wang vs Dice-K, battle of the azn’s
    3 Joba vs Lester, battle of youth
    4 Burnett vs wakefield, battle of the inconsistant??
    5 Hughes vs Buccholz, battle of the hated prospects

    • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

      I rather have Sheets than Burnett, as I have long professed. Besides the commonly toss-around arguments, let me point out that Sheets just turned 30, while Burnett is already 32; thus, Burnett will be about to exit his prime, however good that was. So you’re basically paying for the 32-36 seasons of a pitcher who isn’t really even worth it and comes with a hell of a lot of other baggage with him–no.

      That said, in response to your matchups

      1. Push, going CC
      2. Push, going Wang
      3. Push
      4. Sheets
      5. Push, no idea on how their seasons will unravel

      • Thomas

        CC over Beckett
        Lester over Wang (I’d say Lester is their #2 or will be by the end of the year)
        Sheets/Burnett over Dice-k
        Joba over Wakefield
        Even

        • Matthew

          Really? CC over Beckett? I’d go Beckett.

      • Ivan

        CC Vs. Beckett: CC by a close margin
        Wang Vs. Dice-K: Wang by a good margin
        Lester Vs. Joba: Lester wins that battle right now.

    • steve (different one)

      you don’t need 5 starters b/c there are like 4 off-days in a 7 game series nowadays…

  • Thomas

    Should the Yankees consider Saito. He will probably be a non tender candidate. He was a great pitcher not too long ago. I might emerge as a great set-up guy if not he could good in a 5th or 6th inning role.

    • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

      Who wants another 39 yr old reliever who’ll cost upwards of $7M? I’d rather have gotten Wood. He probably won’t want out of the W. Coast anyway.

      • Steve H

        Where on earth is Saito going to demand and get that much money?

      • Thomas

        he wouldnt be bad for a one year contract. If hes non tendered he’d be a free agent. they could offer what ever they wanted if he doesnt take it he doesnt take it

        • Thomas

          Am I allowed to ask you to change your name? Because I have been posting here for a few months now, and I don’t want others to confuse us.

          • Thomas

            sure np

            • Thomas

              Thanks, just didn’t want to be jerk, but didn’t want us to be mixed up.

              • steve (different one)

                i am picturing Thomas arguing with a sock puppet on his hand

      • E-ROC

        His medical reports suggest TJS in his future. I don’t think he’ll be getting 7 million from any team. However, I think he could get an incentive laden deal. Saito was already old when he got here and still had pretty good success. I’d take a chance on him.

    • Brooklyn Ed

      Chad Gaudin would be a good pickup for a #4 starter since he’s a non-tender candidate if failed to sign Burnett or Lowe. He has the stuff to be a mid-rotation starter.

      • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

        I think you’d seek better options before going so low on the totem pole, no? SIGN BEN SHEETS ALREADY!!

        • Brooklyn Ed

          oh yeah, definitely. I would want Sheets too.

          CC
          Wang
          Sheets
          Gaudin
          Joba

          ..seems good.

    • UWS

      5th or 6th inning role? Are we completely doing away with starting pitching now?

      • Skadoosh

        I mean 5th 6th inning if they need it like mop up duty

        • pat

          that would be the job of a long releiver

          • Skadoosh

            guys like veras not setup but not long relief

  • Skadoosh

    You think the angels would take melky and ipk for chone figgens to play CF

    • Mike Pop

      I wouldnt give them up for Figgins

      • 65hughes

        no way not for that lepercahn specially with the headache his been to the yankes

    • Thomas

      IPK is worth more than Figgins. Chone is mediocre defensively, I believe, and his power is non-existent. He is essentially a costly version of Brett Gardner.

      • Skadoosh

        I’ve saw him play CF one game I went to at Yankee stadium. I saw him make more than one great play in center. But I guess its stupid to base it on one game.

        • Thomas

          Yeah, we get kind of biased with Figgins, because he plays great against the Yanks.

          • andrew

            Yea, but to call him a costly version of Gardner is a little off. The guy can play any position besides 1B and C at a pretty solid level and is a better hitter than Gardner at this point

  • MikeD

    Cameron is a considerable upgrade, both offensively and defensively, over Melky, who killed the Yankees from late April on. His overall numbers were bad, but those included his solid April. How many games did he cost the Yankees the last five months? A team with any hopes of making the play-offs can not slot Melky in CF.

    Melky gets overrated defensively in CF because of his strong, accurate arm. Unfortunately, he doesn’t read the ball well off the bat with any consistency, which is why he’s erratic, at times making great plays, and other times looking like he’s playing the position for the first time. Cameron, on the other hand, is regarded as a top-flight defender, even at 35. He’s covers far more ground than Melky and is much better OFer. It’s not even close.

    On the hitting side, if we’re going to have a .240 hitter in CF, then let’s hope its Cameron. He does strike out a lot. That’s about the only area where Melky’s better. Cameron’s OPS was about 160 pts higher than Melky’s. He can and does take walks, he hits HRs and doubles, and he hits lefties hard, which was a weakness for the Yankees. He’s also known as a hard worker and a great club house player. He’s friends with both CC and A-Rod.

    Melky may finally hit .290, but he’s never going to hit for much power. He’s a 4th OFer on a good team, or a starting OFer on second-division team.

  • MikeD

    I think we as Yankee fans like Figgins because he kills us. He’s not as good against the rest of the league. No power. I think he’s already peaked and is on the downside. He’s a speedster who is 31 next year. The Angels can keep him.

    • 65hughes

      isnt that a fair comparison to burnett

      • TheLastClown

        Maybe if Burnett was a hyper-utility guy who has a starting job as a position player…

        • 65hughes

          no meaning thath Yankee fans like him hes good against they yanks and sox and not as good against the rest of the league and he’s already peaked and is on the downside

  • LeftyLarry

    Gardner hit well over .300 the last 40 or so at bats when he came back.
    He’s a terrific CF (Jeter can cover up his arm like he did Bernies all those years) and he figures to either hit enough to be a guy you hate play against or he might become a really solid hitter and hit 280-300 every year.
    Either way he’ll steal 40-50 bases if you bat him lead off and even in his cameos he showed he can be a tough out in clutch situations with a couple of walk off hits.
    I’d bet him lead off and JD 3rd, where I think he’d bat .300 and hit 25 dingers, DAmon has that kind of RF power and batting 3rd would be as good as ABreu.
    Cameron strikes out too much.We got rid of Giambi and you don’t win with a guy who hits HR’s but strikes out with men on base and 2 outs all season.
    We have a great Bullpen, now we’re getting the starting pitching.Add some contact hitters and Red SOx will go down.
    SWisher and Cameron don’t make enough productive outs.

    • Skadoosh

      The only thing you know your getting in gardner guaranteed is speed. All the sports writers say never judge based on Spring trainig or september numbers

    • steve (different one)

      Cameron strikes out too much.

      everyone who makes this argument always overlooks the fact that Gardner also strikes out a ton.

  • E-ROC

    Here are some of Jayson Starks predictions for non-tender candidates:

    Pitchers: Daniel Cabrera, Chad Gaudin, Jimmy Gobble, Brandon Backe, Takashi Saito, Tyler Yates, Wil Ledezma

    Hitters: Marcus Thames, Gabe Gross, John Buck, Jose Bautista, Chris Burke, Willy Taveras, Jonny Gomes

    Does anyone like anybody here? John Buck would be a nice addition as would Takashi Saito. I would go out on limb with Daniel Cabrera because of the upside. Maybe the Yanks can fix him.

    • steve (different one)

      Thames would make a nice 4th OFer for someone. not sure there is space on the Yankees. ditto for Gross.

      • Brooklyn Ed

        Gross can’t hit lefties.

    • VO

      what about willy taveras

      • E-ROC

        The Yanks already have Brett Gardner, Melky, and Justin Christian so I don’t see where Taveras fits.

        • VO

          justin christian= minor leagues, IF not saying we will but if we trade melky for someone other than cameron then he can share CF with garnder

    • Brooklyn Ed

      this is what I wrote before:

      Chad Gaudin would be a good pickup for a #4 starter since he’s a non-tender candidate if failed to sign Burnett or Lowe. He has the stuff to be a mid-rotation starter.

      • VO

        im not to sure aabout tht one the guy had a 4.40 era maybe a lo rotation starter

        • Brooklyn Ed

          4.40 is okay but don’t forget Oakland is a hitter’s park, I think. Gaudin struggles with his control at times, but has shown that he can be a reliable middle-of-the-rotation pitcher or an excellent option coming out of the bullpen.

          I think Eiland and Harkey could fix him.

      • E-ROC

        I don’t see anyone in the rotation that Chad Guadin would be able to unseat.

        • Brooklyn Ed

          let’s say Sheets is signed and Pettitte doesn’t return, then it would be Sabathia, Wang, Sheets, Gaudin, and Chamberlain.

          • VO

            problem with that burnett is going to b a yankee wether we lik it or not

            • Brooklyn Ed

              still hoping for the Braves to snag Burnett away from us.

              • 65hughes

                hopefully bobby cox can have the same effect like joe torre

    • christopher

      there is some talent in there for bench guys

  • VO

    what about bautista for the bench

  • 65hughes

    yankee haters have become so idiotic this days

  • VO

    i was wondering everyone has been saying that cameron would just be a 1 year fill in until austin jackson is ready does that mean that we might see him this year or are we just going to put him on the spot next year and hope for the best?

    • pat

      Ideally we give him a cup o coffee at the end of the season and get a handle on weather or not he is ready for the bigs. All the while we’re hoping he has a good season at scranton.

    • whozat

      Neither. Cameron fills the gap this year, and we’ll see where we are in the 2009-2010 offseason. If Jackson does very well in AAA, and continues to cut down on his K’s, I think he’ll compete for the starting job in 2010 ST. They’ll still have a backup option, though…whether it’s Gardner or some veteran they bring in after 2010. Maybe they trade for Cammy and re-work his deal to include an option year or something.

  • TheLastClown

    Who thinks the reported 8/160 offer to Tex from Boston is real, and who thinks it’s Boras’ bluff?

    If it’s real, and 8 years is what we’re talking about, rather than 10, I think Cash & Co. will at least be competitive for his services, even with signing CC & Burnett. Those two combined will cost about $40M next year, with plenty left over for Tex.

    We don’t have a 1B anywhere close I don’t think, unless Montero moves there, but that’s still a ways away if it happens at all.

    I do think it would take them out of it for a 5th starter, but that’s just fine. Tex’ bat will help compensate for possible inconsistency out of the 5th starter.

    I didn’t think that the Yankees would get Tex, but I also thought the Angels would. Now if the primary contender for him is Boston, well then I think we just might get involved.

    • Ivan

      I would love to Tex period. The guy is a terrific player. I want the yanks to get Tex cuz he’s really good not cuz the sox are going after him.

  • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

    Random note but just wondering: Whatever became of Hayden Penn of the O’s?

    • pat

      Is that the chick from heroes? Shes cute as hell.

      • http://liberalmusings.wordpress.com Pablo Zevallos

        haha no as in the prospect…

  • pat

    I hope we all eat crow next season when burnett finishes 18-7 with a 3.25 era. Hopefully this is the odd lot theory at its finest.

    • Reggie C.

      We all hope thats the case. This board is nearly unanimous in its agreement that Burnett on a 5-year deal would not work out. I didn’t think we’d make this hard a run at Burnett. I guess those reports of how certain Yankee players wanted Burnett next year were more true than thought.

      Can he stay healthy and deliver several 200 IP seasons? Dammit..i hope so.

  • Reggie C.

    At what point does the Yankee brass approach Wang with an extension to buy out the arbitration years + a couple FA years. Wang is entering another arbitration year where he’s likely to get a slight raise from his ’08 salary of $4ML.

    As long as Wang avoids another freak running injury, he’s probably heading to another 30-32 start season. I think we all see him as a #2 on this team even with Burnett on it. I assume the only pitching move we make next season is extending Wang’s contract. In ’08, Wang started 15 games, won 8 of ’em.. AND never really got on a roll.

    Its weird to think that we’re going to shell out $17 ML AAS to a guy who we KNOW is inferior to our #2.

    • K.B.D.

      I think you go year to year with him until we see what we’re going to get from Joba, Phil, IPK and Brackman. It’s not unreasonable to think that there could be a glut of pitching in the Yankee’s system a few years from now. If Wang would turn out to be a Type-A FA and we have viable internal options, I think you have to at least consider not giving him a big contract.

      • andrew

        I imagine if you extended him right now though, you could do it for something reasonable… maybe along the lines of 4/40-50

  • Old Ranger

    Cameron in CF for the Yankees is a bad choice. He is 36 and the only thing he has over the CF we had is HR power. He is not as good an OF, has a little better arm, covers less ground, gets less of a jump on the ball. 27/09.

    • Mike Pop

      Gets on base more

  • David

    Cameron is a good one year stop gap until Austin Jackson is ready. He’s equal to Melky defensively and hits better. And he’s a good clubhouse guy. My only issue is I’d rather use the money we’d pay him towards Tex.

    • K.B.D.

      I doubt the roadblock with Tex is going to be 10M we have going to Cameron for 1 year.

      • David

        10 million from there and 10 million from Pettitte adds up to 20 million.

  • pat

    Brandon Roy is SO fucking good at basketball.

  • dkidd

    just saw brian cashman on YES looking even more haggard than usual

    confession: i’ve started hoping the yanks don’t get tex or manny (or dunn/burrell/bradley/etc) and are forced to play a scrappy national-league type of game in 09 and beyond. grit beards for everyone! it would help if the outfield defense weren’t so crap-tastic

  • The Ed(itor)

    DON’T LIKE THIS TRADE!!! PLEASE DON’T MAKE THIS TRADE!!!!!