Dec
06

Saturday morning Sabathia links

By

Update: Comments are back on, and I’ve added a few more stories.

==

We have a lot of CC Sabathia quick hits this morning. Let’s dive in.

  • For a long, drawn-out take on Brian Cashman‘s trip out west — replete with a “he’s going to stare him straight through the eyes and into the heart of his soul” analogy — check out Jon Heyman’s latest. It features two anonymous-to-him bids for Sabathia and a growing sense that the Yanks want to judge Sabathia’s interest before withdrawing their offer and pursuing Mark Teixeira.

    The more I think about it and the long Sabathia stews, the more I prefer Teixeira. It has nothing to do with Sabathia’s perceived desire and everything to do with Teixeira’s offensive and defensive prowess. The first baseman may just be a better cog.

  • Ken Davidoff believes that the Brewers won’t go higher than six years and $110 million. The Yanks’ offer would remain the best known deal by a significant amount.
  • Anthony McCarron disputes Heyman’s report. Those other two anonymous deals, according to McCarron’s sources, aren’t really there. One source speculates that they are smoke screens tossed up by Sabathia’s agent to draw more out of the Yanks. That source really doesn’t see the Giants as a legitimate option. Bruce Jenkins, writing for the San Francisco Chronicle, isn’t ready to write the Giants off yet.
Categories : Hot Stove League
  • Tripp

    With the loss of Giambi and Abreu this year and Damon and Matsui at the end of next year, I would hope the Yankees would go after Texeria to pair with Arod for the next 5, 6, 7 years. Jeter is going to start regressing, Nady isn’t a lock for anything, Cano is still inconsistent, no one in CF….

    Sign Tex this year and then make Crawford the LF and lead off hitter of the future after next season!

    • Brian

      “Jeter is going to start regressing”

      Therein lies the problem with Tex. Jeter’s play defensively is going to be a liability before his offense is. Where do you move him to if you have Tex at 1B?

  • Andy In Sunny Daytona

    Agreed, and when Tex gets old we can just move him to fir…wait a minute, where do all the old players go now?
    j/k

  • r.w.g.

    I really think Sabathia wants to give the California teams some time to bull things over and see what kind of contract they can come up with.

    I really don’t believe they can come up with something close enough to be acceptable, not if they have to re-sign Tex, or Manny, and can’t trade Barry Zito.

    So, take a shot at both.

    • Miles Roche

      All i’m going to say is, that if Sabathia was a wordsman, he would’ve signed already. . .

  • radnom

    No way.

    We’ve tried 5 years with mediocre starting pitching and the number one offense in the league, and that got us no where, let’s not go back to that strategy, ok?

    It can’t be argued that in 2009, CC is much more vital to our success than Tex is, especially considering the state of our starting rotation.

    The argument then is that Tex is a better piece to build around going forward….which I feel is equally wrong.
    For one, just take a look at this offseason for example. In terms of free agent pitching, we have Sabbathia and then a bunch of question marks. Everyone else is either a huge injury concern or just not that good for a lot of money. On the offensive side you actually have several viable options…Tex, Manny, Dunn.
    This is a prime example of how upgrading the offense via free agency is much easier than pitching. When you get that pitching cog available you must take it.

    Now, you might argue that an offensive cog of Tex’s caliber and his age is just as rare, but it really isn’t. Beltran, Arod (last year), Vlad..all fit this mold and were more recent than the last time one of the top 5 pitchers in the league hit the open market at a young age (Moose?).

    • http://jobatheheat jobatheheat

      Could not have said it better. If no CC then get Tex

  • Nick

    I like the offensive boost of Texeira. My only question is what it does to the defense. I don’t doubt Texeira’s defense, but that moves Swisher into the outfield. Swisher probably is better than Nady and Damon in the outfield, so that’s not necessarily the problem, the problem is that Swisher to the Outfield (assuming a corner spot) means Damon in center. From most indications, Damon shouldn’t being playing CF anymore. So, does the defensive upgrades of Texeira at first and Swisher in left/right offset the damage that Damon does in center? Just one question to look at.

    • A.D.

      The thing on that note is its you only have the time to sign Tex now, it means that you won’t have your ideal lineup for next year, but you would need to sign Tex now to have him for the next 6-8 years.

      Maybe you sacrifice CF defense for a year to have a better team for the following 6 years

      • Brian

        If we sign Tex, it doesn’t improve the team next year. If we’re okay with that, then yeah, its not an awful move.

        HOWEVER, if we’re on a limited budget, I’d rather get a Lefty Ace in Sabathia, and be instantly more competitive.

  • Mark B

    Say we do get Tex and CC goes elsewhere, I have to think a trade to acquire Jake Peavy has to become a real possibility. I just don’t see the Yanks breaking the bank or providing the years that either Burnett, Sheets or Lowe wants.

  • nick blasioli

    sure would like to have cc on the yanks…but,,,if he is such a mamby pamby wimp and cant take ny…then to heck with him…lowe and aj will suffice very well..look at all the service men that leave home and go to iraq to fight….for peanuts.. wake up cc……also,,, we will have enough money left to sign tex as well……

  • dan

    No, no, no.

    Premiere front-end starting pitching has been the one constant need that’s faced this team since 01. We’ve struggled in the playoffs getting that dominant match-up and icing the game and series.

    Offense is not the missing piece. It never has been. I don’t care who we lost or what they did last year. Blah, blah, blah. It’s all meaningless. Another bat will just turn the 9-6 win into a 14-6 blowout. Big deal. We’ll still lose that 2-1 game because of the simple fact that they had the better starting pitching. The WHOLE GAME IS BASED ON STARTING PITCHING!! We have 2 guys right now and the only real dominant guy out there is Sabathia. He is the only cog out there for us.

    Don’t worry about California. $$$ will dominate the market.

    • http://Iagree kurisu

      Everything else is just talk we will keep coming up short until we sign the top pitching.C C is what we need I dont like how he is going about this but in the end if we sign him we win anyway all that talk is just that him going to the west for less cash ,all that crap is crap when he signs with us we win.Tex is good but even if we signed him and maybe manny we would still not win without the pitching.I dont feel the same about the other free agent pitching really I think we should pass on them if we dont sign cc.

  • Vader

    This is make or break it time for CC…if Cash thinks he has no intention of playing for the Yankees, the offer will be pulled off the table and Tex will become an option.

    IMO this week will really get the hot stove going and a lot of move will be made, some that will come out of nowhere.

    As for Crawford, he would be an ideal 3 hitter in front of A-Rod, but the chances of that happening has to be around 5%.

  • Mark B

    You would think Doug Melvin, the GM from Milwaukee, would have a lot to say in where CC goes. Having presumably lost both Sheets and CC to free agency, you would think they would give CC a date from which to accept their offer or notso they can consider a plan B and plan C. As the Brewers’ offer for CC seems to be the only other legitimate offer outside of the Yankees, that would definitely seem to give the Yankees an upper hand if they dropped out. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that the Brewers don’t have the deep pockets of the Yankees who seem to be talking with almost every top free agent this offseason and their final decision(s) will decide who goes where.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      That’s a good point. I wonder what the Brewers’ back-up plan is.

      • Mark B

        From what I read it is far inferior and less costly names like Randy Johnson, Jon Garland (if he declines arbitration), Brad Penny and Paul Byrd – not exactly what I call a true plan B!

        • Brian

          They’re going back to the OLD Brewers concept: Be mediocre, collect luxury tax, rinse, repeat.

  • sabernar

    How in the world could the Giants afford to spend $100M+ on another pitcher? $40M+ on 2 pitchers? That’s insane, especially when one of the pitchers sucks.

  • Rob

    Signing a 1B for 8 to 10 years is a huge mistake. What 1B has ever justified a contract of even close to that length? Not Giambi. Not Helton. Indeed, what player has ever justified a contract of that length?

    Add to that the uncertain positions of Jorge, Jeter, and even A-Rod over those next ten years and it’s a recipe for long-term roster inflexibilty.

    I can’t believe I’m reading this here. There so many other way to get cheap, short-term offense this off-season and defense at 1B means about as much as defense at DH.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      Giambi’s production pretty must justified that contract. The headaches didn’t, but that’s subjective.

      Considering that Teixeira is both younger and more athletic than Giambi was when the Yanks signed him, I’d say he’s a safe bet.

      • Rob

        Wow, Ben, I’m completely and utterly shocked.

        1) That there is plenty of offense on the market this off-season and most of it is being overlooked. Some of that offense is actually better than what Teixeira offers.

        2) A huge contract for a 1B, especially one that is already past his peak, is a dumb, short-sighted way of building a team. Giambi, while older by two years, was also a significantly better hitter than Teixeira has ever been. And by the last four years of that seven year deal, he alternated between a shell of a player and 3/4 of his peak. Helton – as a glove and as a bat, is a better comp for Teixeira. And his contract turned into a huge turd too.

        3) That you guys are completely overvaluing the importance of defense at 1B. It’s the least important defensive position for a big reason – the number of balls actually hit there.

        I’m just shocked, especially with the contrast with Sabathia. A pitcher of his caliber seldom hits the market. There are a few hitters of Teixeira’s ability hitting the market every year, including this one.

        Gotta run for the day. Hope you guys come to your senses. This isn’t failing to sign a young CFer with power.

        • Steve H

          When did Tex put up huge #’s in Coors Field like Helton? Never. Was Giambi a better hitter? Sure, on steroids. 1B isn’t important defensively because of the lack of balls hit there? What about the amount of throws made there, especially when you have A-Rod, Jeter, and Cano and their sometimes erratic throws heading at you. It’s no surprise that A-Rod was a better fielder with Mientkiewicz at first than with Giambi there.

          I’d rather have CC too, but the your argument can be broken apart pretty easily.

        • A.D.

          1. No one disputed this point, the only better all around bat is Manny, and he is significantly older and brings a whole set of baggage. Tex is the best all around position player on the market when you consider production, defense, and lack of drama

          2. Tex isn’t past his peak, his peak is right now. Giambi has the steriod issue, and those 2 years older were his best 2 years, also the 2 years, if we had Giambi for those that would have been amazing.

          Helton has had one bad season, 2008, he may very well bounce back next year

          3. While 1B is generally considered one of the less important defensive positions, it can still save runs have a good 1B there

          I agree that CC is rare, but looking forward the yankees have pitching in the pipeline, they don’t have many bats, and A-Rod +Tex is a scary 1-2 punch

      • kenthadley

        if you recall, when ole George wanted to sign the recently released David Ortiz, the Cash response was ” we already have a first baseman”…….I think getting offense at 1B is one of the easier issues for a team with the Yanks money……..I think they regretted signing Giambi, not for the production, but for the roster inflexibility he created….at a 150M+ payroll, the 1B and DH’s are not hard to come by……Tex would be great, but if we are forced to choose, we need the pitching first……

        • Steve H

          The Sox brought Ortiz in to compete with JEREMY Giambi, they didn’t think much of him either. George didn’t make any sort of Ortiz claim until long after he’d started doing so well.

          • kenthadley

            my point is that good hitting 1B are more readily available (Ortiz, Carlos Pena, etc)……if we are going to keep a position flexible, the 1B/DH is one where we dont want to commit big time/long term contracts to……I think that is what I’ve heard from Cashman when he talks about roster flexibility……..

    • Steve H

      How has Pujols’ worked out in the first 5 years of his 7 year deal? Or Berkman? Giambi’s production did work out and was a completely different player than Tex for the long term. Hell Miguel Cabrera isn’t as good a bet long term as Tex, and I’m sure that contract will work out for Detroit. There are plenty of long term 1b contracts that have worked out, and there will be plenty more in the future.

      • Brian

        1B is not a position I would want to spend that much money on. In fact, ARod is probably vastly overpaid as a 3B, the only thing that even remotely justifies his contract is the fact that he probably COULD have moved back to SS when he signed the deal.

    • Brian

      I agree. 1B is not a position that experiences a dearth of offense.

  • MS

    I understand CC wants to take his time, but I think he may be making a big mistake if he waits until after Tex signs. What if the Yanks sign him? There goes his $140 mil. I realize the Angels would then come on strong, but not $140 mil strong. At this point I’m starting to agree with others and say let’s go after Tex, Lowe, and maybe Sheets or Perez. Maybe if we turn our attenton elsewhere he might change his mind.

    • C.Panella

      So what your saying is you would be comfortable with a rotation of Wang(hurt most of least year/ Joba (No where near ready for a full season starting)/ Lowe ( was horrible last time in AL east) Sheets or perez ( sheets always hurt perez cant throw a strike) and phil hughes( hurt all of last season) cmon buddy wake up and smell the coffee

      • Kay Sturns

        how i see it, that is actually a really good rotation

  • Reggie C.

    IF we sign Sabathia, we’ll lose out on Tex.

    Should Cash decide to leave the lineup as is, next year likely offers other hitters of known offensive prowress starting with Matt Holiday. Lets not feign surprise should Holiday rake in Oakland. He’s a top-notch hitter and he’s going to hit the FA mkt. Is Holiday as good a hitter as Tex? Perhaps… he’s got a chance to show it now.

    What i’m trying to say is that as good as Tex is right now, next off-season should have at least 1 great hitter available via FA.

    Cash could (SHOULD) look for high-upside guys. Delmon Young (former #1 hitting prospect in ALL of baseball) is available. Get this guy. Young should figure out the hitting and he’s got the best arm in the game.

    • Marcus

      Young looks horrible at the plate and doesn’t appear to have the IQ to outsmart a pitcher.

      I would never do a deal for him.

      • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        “Young…doesn’t appear to have the IQ to outsmart a pitcher.”

        In the immortal words of steve (different one): Bullshit. I’m sorry, but you have absolutely nothing with which to back up that statement, and it’s dripping with bigoted innuendo.

      • Reggie C.

        There’s real ability in that kid. He’s in a situation where he doesn’t know if he’s going to start at this point. You’ve got to look at his track record and the scouting report. Everybody thinks he’s a potential All-star.

        The hitting is there right now. The power … not so much. But he’s got a terrific frame and drive. He will hit .290 tomorrow, and its only a matter of time before he hits 30 homers every single year.

        • Marcus

          It’s a 100% opinion. I live in Minnesota and watched about 150 at-bats of Delmon. He definately doesn’t swing well in pressure situations, but I guess that can change when he matures more.

          He presses when he is trying to drive in a run and will swing at anything. During one at-bat he had the bases loaded and struck out. Two of the three pitches were wild that landed 2 feet infront of him in the dirt.

          He needs to calm down at the plate.

    • B.George

      Delmon Young is an absolute maniac and will never survive in New York

  • Marcus

    What happened to the good ol’ days when people actually wanted to play for the Yankees…

    • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      January 26. January 13. December 19. January 14. December 13. January 9. January 11. February 2.

      Those are the dates of the FA signings of Alex Rodriguez (TX), Carlos Beltran, Manny Ramirez, Vladimir Guerrero, Jason Giambi, the two Randy Johnson trades and the Johan Santana trade.

      It’s December 6. Just because a guy hasn’t signed by December 6 doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to play for the Yankees.

      • Steve H

        The Giambi date is very telling. Everyone expected him to come here, there wasn’t much competition and yet he still didn’t sign until December 13th. Yet there are so many people who expected everyone to sign by the end of November. Patience people. The only one who should be worried about the “delay” in signings is TSJC and his burrito. The man has got to be hungry.

  • http://janeheller.mlblogs.com jane

    Why in the world should the Yankees increase the offer to CC when he has nothing close to it on the table? We’ve already blown away the competition. And I don’t see why we can’t sign him and Tex, money wise. Btw, I love Tripp’s idea of Crawford in left at some point.

  • Brent

    Guys,

    Lets look at the offseason differently. What is going on with this roster NEXT year. We will have no outfield. All FA’s Damon/Nady/Matsui. Do we really want to deal with that? I have an idea. Lets reform that now.

    How about Damon to STL for Ludwick or Schumacker.

    Then offer Nady to Cin for Bailey and Freel.

    These deals give us youth and Payroll Flexibility.

    Here are some other interesting things to do.

    Trade for Jason Marquis, should cost next to nothing and can be a good 4/5 starter and is from NY!

    Sign Sheets! Sign Penny! 2-3 year deal, why not? when he is down, we can have one of our young guys pitch a few games, gives them experiance and innings. Plus, they are younger and cheaper than Lowe and AJ.

    Work out something with SF. Let them get CC. In fact, help them! It will keep him out of NY which equals wins. Perhaps offer IPK(from Cali), Duncan, Matsui with $10 mill. for R. Winn and Cain or Sanchez.

    Now we have some more room for Dunn? Manny?

    Love to hear some feedback.

    bhw326@yahoo.com

    • Reggie C.

      Jason Marquis is a mediocre pitcher in the NL whose innings were down but walks were up. Not too surprising he missed some starts…do you see that innings jump?? Now that kid is a TJ waiting to happen. Marquis should stay in the NL Central.

      Sheets + Penny isn’t bad , except the Yanks need a reliable arm and right now that’s either CC or Lowe. I’ll go with CC/Lowe + Sheets. You don’t upgrade a rotation by taking on TWO significant risks.

      I don’t like the trades involving the hitters. What’s with you and the NL Central btw?? Geesh. SF would NEVER part with Cain for that cheapo offering … and they shouldn’t.

    • C.Panella

      Um you started by saying we have no outfield so what your planning on doing makes our outfiled much worse with no leadoff hitter either…Yuk

    • Mike Pop

      Is this a serious post ? I usually dont like to bash people but this is horrible. Why would they trade Ludwick for Damon ? Why do you want MArquis ? He is not going to be good for us or any team. That package would get us Cain and R Winn ? Cmon man… Nady for Bailey ? Doubt it

  • Tim

    I am concerned about Sabathia and find myself wondering if there is anther way to spend $20M a year and get another true ace. From what I am reading it seems like CC’s first choice would be to remain in the bay area on an NL team . . . so that would mean the Giants. Also as far as I can tell the Giants would love to have him but cannot afford him because they are stupid and tied up way too much cash in Zito.

    I think that the Yankees should trade a nothing prospect/player (say Shelly Duncan) to the SF Giants for Zito, Linecum, and Schierholttz. Now before I get the knee jerk “you are an idiot” responses slow down and think about it. We are essentially in a position to “trade” them CC by taking on the money from the Zito deal and thus freeing up the Giants to sign him. So in my mind what it boils down to is do the Giants want to trade Linecum and Schierholtz for CC?

    • Mike Pop

      Ummm no.. That makes their team worse

      • Tim

        I am not actually sure it does.

        However, the fallback could be Cain and Scherholtz. I think that is a riskier deal for the Yankees but then again both teams have to feel a little pain to make a deal work.

        • Mike Pop

          Lincecum>>>Sabathia just because of the money and the youth.

          • Reggie C.

            That’s not fair to Sabathia only b/c Sabathia has put in the time and is rewarded with FA. Lincecum is a newcomer and now that the awesome debut is done, lets see him put up a string of 200 ip seasons.

            • Mike Pop

              Ok but I think the Giants would rather have Lincecum than CC

    • Steve H

      No they wouldn’t want to do that. Bringing in CC by weakening your team and losing Lincecum would get them nowhere. And CC might be more apprehensive to going there if Lincecum wasn’t going to be there. It just wouldn’t happen. Ever.

    • B.George

      Lets trade old expensive injury pronce guys for young studs…moron

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

        Dammit. Read the commenting guidelines. And don’t do it again.

        • B.George

          sorry

  • Ajay

    If we fail to sign CC,we should move on to AJ or Sheets. We cannot afford to not address the pitching staff that is currently Wang and Joba. By people saying if we fail to land CC we should get Tex,please realize that Tex will not address our main concern. Pitching and defense wins ball games. The same people that are for Tex over CC will be the same people who will complain and throw Cashman under the bus when Hughes or IPK have rough outings.We cannot simply mash our way to the world series. Look at the teams that have been successful over the last few years. Again it is all about pitching and defense. Certain Yankee fans need to wake up and understand that we do not need an all star at every position in order to win. We need ball players like Gardner who for some reason everyone is sold on sucks based on 42 games. Puts up similar numbers to Ellisbury and yet Boston is building him into there future by trading Coco.We need a guy like Gardner here because of what he brings when he gets on base and how much ground he can cover.
    People need to take a step back and look at what won us those rings. See how many 30 hr guys were on those rosters. Pitching should be what Cashman addresses with or without landing CC.

    • mustang

      Totally agree.

  • Brent

    I agree with your train of thought Tim. I wonder if that would be considered collusion though?

    For all of you that are nah saying the outfield idea, what do you propose?

    Spend $25 mil on CC, spend $20 mil on Tex or spend $35mil on AJ & Lowe? Then next year spend $13mil on Nady and $20 mil on Holliday?

    Keep the ideas coming, Cashman will need you in the marketing department…. you are working on a $300 mil Budget?

    Remember ’96, Those guys I mentioned are not superstars. They are hard working Team players. Who was in the World Series this year? Not LAA, NYY, BOS!

    • Reggie C.

      That ’96 team had some real current and rising stars at that time: O’Neil, BERNIE, DJ, Mo, Wetteland, Pettitte. Especially, look up O’Neil’s & Bernie’s numbers that season and those guys are All-stars.

      • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        I coulda sworn David Eckstein, Andy Stankiewicz and Darin Erstad powered the Yankees’ “little engine that could” during the late 90s dynasty. Hmm.

      • Brent

        Those guys turned into stars. They turned into stars as they played hard and as a team. We are so accustomed to knowing their greatness now. But back then in ’96 / ’97, we knew they were good, not necessiarly great. Hind sight is 20/20 and now we know what we are missing. In two years we will be saying the same about Cano/Swisher/Hughes and some of the guys that have not arrived from the minors yet.

        • Reggie C.

          NO. O’Neil was a star at that time. Bernie was a bigger star than O’Neil, and one of the better CFs in baseball. DJ was wrapping up a ROY run, so i guess that makes him a young stud back THEN. The back-of-the-BP was probably the best in baseball THEN.

          What i think your trying to get at is that none of these guys coasted on talent. Yeah.. I agree. But don’t short-change their talent.

  • r.w.g.

    is there any real idea of what it will take to sign Teixeira? i know he turned down $144 million over 8 from the rangers.. so i guess he wants more than that? that’s a little ridiculous.

    • Mike Pop

      I also think he wants to win.. Yes he wants the money but I would think that if we offered 160 and Nats offered 180 we would get him

  • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

    “Tim” and “Brent” are a joke, right? Like, Mike A. or someone is sitting there laughing as he puts up these comments and people respond to them? I hope?

    • Brent

      you are so quick to “JOKE”

      What is your solution, Mr. Genius?

      Please humor me with a thought out answer. Remember what you propose with effect future years as well.

      What type of pitching staff will you have in ’11 with Lowe and AJ?
      Who plays the OF in ’10?
      Who plays 1st/DH? Jeter/Tex/Swisher/ARod?
      How high will your payroll be?

      I look forward to your plan!

      • Mike Pop

        I love hearing ideas but dude you proposed trading for jason marquis.. Id put him as a mop-up man as best.. You also proposed Damon for Ludwick ? Why would they do that.. Ludwick is under control and Damon is only for one more season. The package you offered for Cain AND Winn would get a quick hang up from Sabean.. That package probably sniffs just Winn but Cain is going to demand a top guy in return.. A big Hitter…

        I love hearing new ideas but yours are just really unrealistic

        • Brent

          Seriously.

          Was it not STL looking at aquiring Holliday, ….a 1 year guy!

          Winn is good, not great, …not for 8 Million. Especially when they need $$ to sign CC.

          As far as the deal I proposed, …they would get Matsui for essentially free and also get IPK. So, they are getting some value in return and lowering their payroll so they can afford CC. Someone they should covet, a la Barry back in the ’90’s.

        • Brent

          Also, as far as Marquis. I agree he is not the solution but, whom do you prefer? Marquis, Ponson, Rasner?

          If we help facilitate the Cubs in getting Peavy, by lowering the Cubs payroll, we keep LAA out of the equation. In the end we gain wins by Peavy to the Cubs vs. Peavy to the AL.

          • Reggie C.

            There are several Free Agent guys i’d prefer over Marquis. The fact that we’d even have to trade for a guy who YOU just listed alongside ponson and rasner is mind-boggling. Since we’re talking about the last spot in the rotation, give it to the most-ready in-house arm.

            That reasoning of keeping Peavy away from the LAA just doesn’t work. Firstly, if the Angels want to pay the prospect + budgetary price for Peavy, then there’s NOTHING the yanks can do about it. I’d like to see Peavy get to LAA just to see how creative Moreno can get with Lackey hitting FA and having to pay a new slugger while having Hunter and Matthews on the pay-roll.

            • Mike Pop

              Would the Angels have interest in Wood ? Weaver, Wood and one or two more “throw-ins” could be a helluva deal for Padres imo

              • Mike Pop

                Would the Angels have interest in Wood ?

                Meant the Padres

              • Reggie C.

                Brandon Wood is intruiging. His power is fo’ real, but the plate discipline isn’t there. The pitching in the NL west is improved dramatically with Haren, Billingsley, Kershaw, Lincecum, Sanchez … i wonder if his numbers would be any better in the NL West vs. the AL west.

                • Mike Pop

                  They also havent given him a real shot right

                • Reggie C.

                  yup. The Padres would like to have him surely, but the expectations would have to be measured to the influx of pitching talent the division has seen.

                • Mike Pop

                  Agreed. Its funny how they have some serious pitching but the division is so bad

      • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        I just don’t play the “let’s pull completely infeasible ideas out of left field” game.

    • Tim

      I have two responses for you:

      1. No that was not a joke. I think that a creative approach here could really benefit the Yankees.

      2. Go fuck yourself. I admit that I put out a radical idea. Attack the idea but don’t attack Brent and I for discussing it.

      • Brent

        Tim, thanks for the support. But whoa. Dropping the F-Bomb before lunch, pretty impressive.

        • Tim

          If it makes you feel any better I am working a project in Dublin, so it is late enough to drink respectably over here. Though I must say that in Ireland the respectable drinking hour seems to come a little earlier anyway.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

        You’re warned. Mondesi didn’t attack you, he attacked the ridiculous idea you put forth. “Go fuck yourself,” though, is a direct attack. Cut it out.

        Second, see below.

        • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

          I should have more directly addressed their “ideas” instead of joking about them (the commenters themselves) being made-up names used by some other person to toss out ridiculous ideas to rile up the RAB masses. Clearly some of the blame for the escalation of the situation falls on me, my bad.

      • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

        “I have two responses for you:

        1. No that was not a joke. I think that a creative approach here could really benefit the Yankees.

        Ok… You said: “I think that the Yankees should trade a nothing prospect/player (say Shelly Duncan) to the SF Giants for Zito, Linecum, and Schierholttz.” Then followed that by saying a “fallback option” is “Cain and Scherholtz,” which I assume means a Zito/Cain/Schieholtz package in return for Shelly Duncan. So you think the Giants would trade to the Yankees a package of Zito/Lincecum/Schierholtz or Zito/Cain/Schieholtz in exchange for Shelly Duncan.

        My response to that idea is that it has absolutely no basis in reality and is impracticable.

        2. Go fuck yourself. I admit that I put out a radical idea. Attack the idea but don’t attack Brent and I for discussing it.”

        Temper, temper.

  • mustang

    “The more I think about it and the long Sabathia stews, the more I prefer Teixeira. It has nothing to do with Sabathia’s perceived desire and everything to do with Teixeira’s offensive and defensive prowess. The first baseman may just be a better cog.”

    Ok I need someone to explains this to me how on earth is Teixeira a better cog then a starting pitcher of CC talent on a team that needs pitching.
    There are some ways to make up for Teixeira, but I don’t see to many CC’s running around.

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

    Clearly, we don’t want to censor people’s opinions. The only time Ben, Mike, and I really step in as moderators is when the personal attacks get out of hand.

    However, I will *not* let this turn into the comments section of MetsBlog, where everyone tosses around ridiculously one-sided trade proposals. Or ridiculously absurd proposals, like paying the rest of Barry Zito’s contract.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

      Oh, and:

      • Brent

        Ha ha ha ha, …nice gavel!

      • Mike Pop

        I take credit for giving Joe that animation !

  • Brent

    Lets start fresh.

    What if….

    The Yanks sign none of CC, AJ, Lowe, Tex…..what is the plan of action?

    Your ideas?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

      You overpay for Pettitte, for starters. From there you’ve got to look to the trade market, I would think, unless you can get Sheets on a decent contract (under no circumstances, not even desperation, is he worth more than 3/45 — and that’s stretching it to its absolute limits). Not for Jason Marquis, though. We might as well have not sold Rasner to Japan.

      • Brent

        Hey Rasner for a million bucks, why does Cashman get no props for that deal!

        But on the trade front, any ideas? I get the impression that the Yankees are trying to avoid just overpaying for mediocre talent. I think that they would rather go young than get out of control. You have to admit, Giambi, Pavano, and the others have been mistakes – “overpaying”. Their best deals have been through trades. The Abreu deals worked out great. The Sheffield deal looks good.

        • Mike Pop

          The only reason I disliked the Sheffield signing was that Vlad was on the market also..

          Thats kinda like signing AJ over CC this year

          You settle for the 2nd best

          • Brent

            By Sheffield deal, I mean the trade to DET. We got rid of an injured headcase for prospects that are on the 40 man.

            • Mike Pop

              Oh okay.. Yup Humberto

              • Brent

                I wish I could throw high 90’s

    • mustang

      Pray for lots of rain next year.

    • Reggie C.

      Your painting a scenario where the Yanks have all this money that hasn’t been given out. Okay.

      1. Joe P. is right. Pay Pettitte. Pay Sheets, who at least age-wise is a solid 3 yr bet.
      2. Expect that someone like Greinke won’t sign an extension and that by the midseason trading deadline he’s available.
      3. Resist trading for Matt Holiday before the deadline.
      4. Look into a trade for Delmon Young as our future RF. Young is a .290 hitter with a cannon of an arm right now. Tomorrow he’ll be a 30-35 homer guy. As good as BJ Upton’s ceiling is touted, Young’s ceiling is higher.

    • Mike W.

      Sign Sheets.
      Sign Manny.
      Trade for Dejesus.
      Trade for Peavy.

      • mustang

        and sign Andy
        I agree

  • T-Dizzle

    we need CC cuz he is a stud pitcher and pitching is what we need most

    • Mike Pop

      I agree with your statement T-Dizzle and that makes us

      http://somecallmeduh.files.wor.....bvious.jpg

      • T-Dizzle

        takling to some peeps on here it seems like they disagree that pitching is what we need most so maybe it isnt so obvious as we both think

        • Mike Pop

          Ya I guess some people think that since we gave up less runs lasst year we will be okay.. But its still not the same rotation.. We only have 2 starters as of right now and one is on an innings limit

        • Brent

          We sure do need pitching! That is agreed I think by all. But if no CC then what? Which wart do you want? AJ/Sheets – Injured Lowe – Old Perez – Not Consistant Pettitte – Expensive Peavy – Expensive(Prospects & $$) and doesn’t want to be here

          That leaves us with trades? What is available within reason? Washburn, Millwood, Robertson, Willis, Bonderman, Duchercher, Padilla, Bailey

          Who is worth a damn? Are they better than Aceves? Hughes? Kennedy? Coke?

          • Mike Pop

            Only one from that group is Duke but I doubt Beane trades him now after the Holliday trade.. They are looking to win but that can change at the deadline

            • Brent

              So, …what do we do? sign or trade for junk – just beacause we are the “Yankees”?

    • Mike Pop
      • Brent

        Dude, your a trip.

        • Mike Pop

          Good or bad thing ? I just thought it was a funny pic

          • Brent

            Good.

            • Mike Pop

              Nice !

  • Brent

    Is it a little odd that the Twins are already ready to get rid of Young? He sure looks like a Stud, but the Twins know young talent, there must be some skeleton in the closet that is not coming out.

    • Mike Pop

      O ya I know.. You give up a stud in Garza and then your apparently willing to let him go for significantly less. Your manager is also calling him a 4th outfielder

    • B.George

      He is a frigging maniac….they traded a stud future ace in Matt Garza when they were going to trade Johan Santana for a guy who throws bats at umpires….that trade was ridiculous.

      And when ever someone goes on the trade market can everyone not go crazy and say lets trade for him..all you guys think we should get everyone that is on the trade market and wanna castrate Cashman cause he didnt go after that particular player.

      And going after Tex over CC is absurd. Pitching has been our problem for the last few years we had to plug friggin Drunken Ponson and Japanese Rasner into our rotation. We are going to have one possibly two pitchers in our rotation with innings limits so we need the other pitchers in our rotation to eat innings and CC has a rubber arm and can pitch a lot of innings. We do need to upgrade our offense but passing on an ace pitcher when we desperatley need one to upgrade it is not a smart thing.

    • Reggie C.

      Yeah. That is odd.

      I think the Twins are trying to field some offers , but he’s coming off a mediocre season so to trade him now isn’t optimal. But the kid has a world of talent. His ceiling is among the highest of young ML’ers , including the Upton boys, Stephen Drew, and Jay Bruce.

      • Mike Pop

        Does Stephen Drew really have as much of an upside as the Uptons, Bruce, and Young ?

        Just asking cause Im not too sure

        • Reggie C.

          He’s a SS and an offensive firepower SS at that. Don’t know much about the D though.

          I just bring up Drew’s name because ……… ideally, i’d want Drew to be Dj’s successor after 2010. Drew is rep’d by Boras, and Boras has a real shot at making this kid the next 100ML dollar SS.

          • Mike Pop

            Hmm ya I guess since Hanley already signed.

            I wouldnt be shocked if he gets 100 million

  • Brent

    I firmly believe, long term, the Yanks would be better served by getting Sheets, Penny, Moyer, Pettitte to 1-3 year deals. Then the Yanks strength, minor league pitching, can be brought up slowly and incoporated when these guys go down or leave via FA. The young guys can learn from the older guys. And the contracts will not cripple the future if one goes down. Plus the older guys will be working hard to ensure their next contract will be huge. Just imagine if Damon/Sheffield/Matsui signed 5 year deals instead of 3 year deals – OH BOY!

    • Mike Pop

      Damon — 4 year deal.

      • Brent

        ok, my bad. But thank goodness the slowest CF is a FA at the end of the year. I like the guy but longterm we need to get younger and more athletic. I would love to see what he could get on the trade market.

        • Mike Pop

          I would love to see what he could get on the trade market

          Me too but if its not beneficial like a young starter with potential or a young outfielder or up the middle player with potential it is better to hold onto him because hes good for us and is a great leadoff hitter

          The Yankees seem like a whole different team with him in the lineup

          • B.George

            it is better to hold onto him because hes good for us and is a great leadoff hitter

            agreed need to keep Damon unless you are overwhelmed which i doubt is going to happen.

            • Brent

              Does that mean we will offer him arb at the end of the year? or will he be expendable then?

  • Brent

    Man, why do we all speculate about signing guys? Throwing money at the problem is not the answer, is it?

    Reggie C. says:

    December 6th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
    That ‘96 team had some real current and rising stars at that time: O’Neil, BERNIE, DJ, Mo, Wetteland, Pettitte. Especially, look up O’Neil’s & Bernie’s numbers that season and those guys are All-stars.

    Not any of them were free agent signees!

    On the anniversary of Carter/Alomar/Fernandez/McGriff trade, …lets put our thinking caps on!

    How about:

    Cano/Nady/Damon for Kershaw/Either/Hu/Jones

    • Brent

      Remember a trade needs to hurt for it to work.

      • Mike Pop

        I like the idea but why would they do that agan ? They lose 3 young guys who are under control for 2 guys with 1 year left and Cano.

        Kershaw is too good to be traded I think.. Unless they were to trade him for Felix or someone of that nature

        • Brent

          Why LAD would do this:

          1B/2B/3B are set for 3 years now.
          They have the quality pitching to spare 1 stud.
          They maintain a quality outfield, Torre approved.

          Perhaps to sweeten the deal, the Yanks include the California Kid-IPK?

          It lessens the nighmare of Jones and Man Ram leaving.

          Perhaps it also allows them to sign Randy Johnson or Lowe or even CC?

          Seems like they like the added sales of Jerserys in that part of the country? Kudos to them for the Manny heist at the deadline!

          • Reggie C.

            LA won’t do it b/c they’d be losing one-too many potential all-star. Kershaw alone would likely cost us Cano + top notch pitching prospect. LHP like Kershaw are rare. You can count them on a single hand. That’s the definition of untouchable.

            Ethier was LA’s best bat beside Manny. If they’re possibly losing Manny, the Dodgers aren’t going to lose their second best bat and potential face of the franchise and replace him with Nady.

        • Mike Pop

          I have a funny little curveball trade proposal but I will wait till an open thread to discuss it.. This is getting off topic and I already got bashed once today

          • Brent

            Come on, throw it out there. CC will not sign until Jan anyways!

  • Dave

    Ben,

    We have been told and shown throughout our whole lives that pitching wins championships. Now, we are going to start rooting for the yanks to sign Tex over CC. I understand he brings more than a bat and would greatly strengthen our defense in the infield but none of that will matter when our rotation is falling apart by mid summer. And not signing sabathia may force us to once again put hughes in the starting rotation before spring training even starts or another completely unproven young guy like geise, coke or aceves. Isnt that the same play we had last season when ponson and rasner became mainstays? The yanks have to learn from their mistakes. Mistake number one – building a monstrous lineup full of all stars does not get you to the world series if your pitching is weak. mistake number two – relying on rookies and unproven starters to fill out the rotation may result in a complete collapse of the rotation esp if something unforeseen happens (like wang’s injury.) If we sign Tex we will be continuing the cycle of offense over pitching – it hasnt worked for 8 years, what makes you think it will work now?

  • http://yahoo jad

    This is a no brainer! Tex for first, Hudson for second, Cano for CF (KEMP)?, Screw the fat one! Get Pettitte, and Sheets or Lowe for pitching staff. Pitching Defense, and Tex for RBI Teach all pitchers to make sure ground balls go to the right side and we have a pennant.
    ,Damon Lf, Jeter SS, Rod 3B, Tex !B, Kemp CF, Matsui DH, Swisher/Nady RF, Posada C, Hudson 2b,

    Wang, Lowe/Sheets, Pettittte, Joba, Hughes/Kennedy/Aceves plenty!!!

    • Brent

      Heck why not just play sandlot and have everyone rotate each inning!

  • Dave

    Teach pitchers to get ground balls to the right side? If only it were that easy. Lowe will NEVER be able to be a good second starter in the al East. Sheets will only be an ace if he stays healthy.

    • Brent

      But can they play 1B/DH when they are 37, …seems like we will have a bunch of those in 2011!! ha ha

  • Brent

    Mike Pop,

    What is the trade that you are thinking!!??? Please share!

    • Mike Pop

      Maybe try to get Jack Wilson from the Pirates for something like IPK. Then you use Wilson to trade to the Dodgers or Tigers for prospects that would interest the Padres and use them to get Peavy.. So essentially your using IPK plus those prospects plus another 2 from us in a deal for PEavy if it is as all possible. Or you just get Hu and w.e else from the Dodgers and you can use him at 2nd base if you traded Cano for Kemp.

      Kind of wild and out there but if certain prospects from the Dodgers interested the Padres enough you could pair those with Z-Mac or whoever else to get Peavy if he was willing

      • Mike Pop

        Probably more unrealistic than realistic but times are boring with a slow offseason as of now

        • Brent

          I wish it would work. But Peavy does not want NY, ..we do not need another Whitson or Weaver or Vasquez on our hands.

  • The Ed(itor)

    I wuld look CC in the eye to gauge his interest. Seeing none, I would then go sign Texeira, Sheets and either Lowe or Burnett.

    • Brent

      But why? If CC does not want to be here, fine see ya. But are the other guys signifigantly better, $10-20 million each better than the internal Yanks options already?

  • Brent

    Daniel Cabrera! He is the solution to all our problems!

  • Joey H

    Hey does anyone think that this 140 million dollar offer by the Yankees is kind of bait for CC and other teams? In other words that this is not anywhere near where they are willing to go, but let the other teams reach this and then blow them out of the water with another offer that nobody, even CC can refuse?

  • Dave

    Joey – they prolly could if they needed to and felt CC would accept. Yea I want to see what Dan Cabrera has.

  • ortforshort

    Why is it either or on Sabathia and Teixeira? The Yankees can afford both. And they sure as hell need both. We need Cashman to man up and get em both done.