Dec
25

More signs pointing to no Pettitte

By

We heard the doubts about Andy Pettitte start yesterday with a PeteAbe post. They grow louder today as Newsday’s Kat O’Brien chimed in.

In a piece that also provides some insight into the way the Mark Teixeira signing went down, O’Brien notes that her Yankee sources say the Front Office is no longer sure they want to welcome Pettitte back to the fold in 2009. She writes:

Still, even the Yankees have limits. As of midday Wednesday, a final decision had not been made on whether the one-year, $10-million contract offer to Pettitte was still on the table. Yet an inside source said the Yankees were at that point inclined to stick with their team as is.

Pettitte has had that contract offer from the Yankees since early November. And while he stated all season that he wanted to return to the Yankees in 2009 and pitch in the new Yankee Stadium, he has adamantly held out in hopes of taking a smaller pay-cut from the $16 million he earned in 2008. At the winter meetings and also at last week’s press conference introducing Sabathia and Burnett, both Yankees general manager Brian Cashman and manager Joe Girardi said they hoped a return could be worked out.

But Pettitte may have waited too long to accept the Yankees’ offer. With Teixeira now in the fold for eight years and $180 million (pending a physical), Pettitte may be priced out of plans. The source said nothing had been finalized on Pettitte, but the Yankees were leaning towards no. The 36-year-old lefty went 14-14 with a 4.54 ERA for the Yankees this season, having a good first half, but struggling after the All-Star break.

As I said yesterday, Pettitte may learn the hard way that “you snooze, you lose” is a very important life lesson to learn. If he doesn’t get a deal because he was torn over $6 million, he’ll have to live with that decision. For what it’s worth, Ken Davidoff thinks Pettitte will come back (third-to-last paragraph), but I’m not so sure.

So if this really is the end of Andy Pettitte, I can’t say I’m too disappointed. I think that he would be a sturdy back-of-the-rotation pitcher for 2009, and as we’ve learned over the years, a team can never have too much pitching. However, He’s not worth the $16 million he wants, and based on his performance in the second half in 2008, he just didn’t seem to have it. I’m ready to move forward with Phil Hughes, Al Aceves, Ian Kennedy or anyone else the Yanks choose to plug into the five spot.

In an off-season in which the Yanks have spent money they have, it will be sad for nostalgia’s sake to see Pettitte shut out. But he had his offer and declined it. That is, sometimes, just the way the baseball cookie crumbles.

Categories : Hot Stove League

112 Comments»

  1. The Evil Dynasty says:

    Good, let the young guys start younger.

    • Whozat says:

      Problem with that is you’re one injury away from a rotation containing all three of Hughes, Kennedy, and aceves at some point, unless one has already flamed out.

      Then it’s even more problematic.

      • TheLastClown says:

        Current rotation sans Andy:

        CC
        AJ
        Wang
        Joba
        Hughes

        If one injury, lets say to AJ, then IPK or Aceves steps in, thusly:

        CC
        Wang
        IPK/Aceves
        Joba
        Hughes

        So one injury does not necessitate the three young guns taking rotation turns simultaneously.

        • Steve says:

          And with the possible exception of IPK, all of those kids have innings limits. That’s why you need a 5th starter innings eater.

          I also like the idea of letting Hughes/IPK/Aceves get their toes wet here and there with starts in the bigs while someone else is on the DL. No pressure, not trying to lock down a job or anything. Just go out there and let er’ rip. Chances are, the young guys will pitch BETTER with low expectations, so everybody wins.

          • Ryan S. says:

            That’s how I see it. The depth that an inning eater like Andy gives us is worth quite a bit as we’re basically talking about a #5 starter here – dependability and durability more than pure stuff is a bigger factor for the final rotation spot – we’ve already made that tradeoff with guys like AJ (injury prone) and Joba (innings limit).

            Plus, Hughes and IPK can continue to polish their stuff – I don’t know why people think letting Phranchise pitch a full year in AAA is a waste of the kid’s talent – he’s 22 years old! I’d say Aceves is probably major league ready, the guy is 26 or 27 already, and he’d make a good longman, though Giese did a good job in that spot too last year.

  2. Doug says:

    I’m not entirely convinced he’s not coming back. It’s like hoping for one last Christmas miracle!

    • Will says:

      Andy had a lackluster 2008, so bringing him back wouldnt exactly be what I’d call a miracle. You’d be spending $10 million on a pitcher past his prime coming off a less than average year. I’ll admit it would be a sad way to see him go, but how much leverage did he think he had after the way he pitched all year? Save the money, stick with the youth, and keep the payroll what it is.

      • whozat says:

        200 innings of league-average pitching? And he was significantly better than league-average until late in the season when his elbow started barking and he couldn’t take any DL time because the rotation was in shambles.

        So…I really don’t see how bringing him back would be a bad call.

      • Doug says:

        We also don’t know how much of that lackluster 2008 was because of the distractions from the Mitchell report not allowing him to complete his preseason training program. When did everyone start to write off Andy as broken down and a lost cause?

        He has a good probability of returning to form in 2009. Two years ago, he was the stopper of the rotation, the next year he pitches great in the first half, but wears down in the second half and ends up with an average year overall. And we pronounce him finished? I can’t get behind that.

        The $10m offer was part of the negotiation process, I thought. Pettitte asks for $16m, the Yankees offer $10m, he ends up with $12m or something. I don’t see how we can view it as a take-it-or-leave-it thing.

        • Ben K. says:

          Except you’re completely ignoring the fact that Andy Pettitte will turn 37 two and a half months into the 2009 season, and 37-year-old pitchers do not return to the form they had when they were 35. They get worse. Mike Musina’s 2008 was a huge outlier. No one should be expecting Andy Pettitte to get better any time soon.

          • Doug says:

            I’m not expecting a Cy Young-level season from Pettitte, are you kidding me? I don’t expect a replication of his 2007 performance either. Of course his 2009 is unlikely to be better. What I do expect is an improvement over last year to where he returns to his expected regression. His arm started to break down in the second half and he pitched drastically worse (specifically, a really shitty August.) Based on his injury troubles, 2008 was also an outlier.

            • Jeff says:

              this almost reminds me of the bret farve saga.

            • ryan says:

              I agree … I seem to remeber everyone counting out moose when he had a career bad yr in 07. Pettitte will train hard and rebound, maybe not #2 stuff or even #3, but he’ll be a solid 4 and 10-12 mill for one yr is a fair. Pettitte would be a nice weapon to have come post season too, Im sure not everything he’s known and respected for has left him. Hughes would probably be as effective as Pettitte but would that yr in AAA be essential to his development?

            • Rich says:

              Why would you expect him to pitch better in 2009?

              You’ve already given him a pass because of last winter’s “distractions”. Since he hasn’t signed yet he’ll be facing new conditioning “distractions” that might impact his 2009 performance.

              Maybe he should grab that 3 year / $36 offer his side was trying to get people to believe he had.

            • mustang says:

              Doug,
              I agree with you, but you have a better chance of getting blood out of rock then convincing Ben of this. The stat. say that Andy’s done so he done.
              We all know that there is no way on this earth that Andy could pull a Mussina.

              The Stat Gods have spoken.

              • Ben K. says:

                You do realize that just about everyone reading this believes to some extent in stats and that literally everyone in baseball uses statistical analysis to figure out player value and performance, right? I just want to make sure you know how you sound when you start espousing this Joe Morgan-like view of statistics in a game that has relied on them for over 100 years.

                • mustang says:

                  Yes I realize the value of stat I just don’t live and die by them. Because the last time I checked champions are won on the field not on a spreadsheet.

  3. Yankees=warriors says:

    I would love to see more of the youngsters, but this would be a bad way to see Andy go!

  4. Billy Beane says:

    i think before the teixeira signing, the yanks would have been willing to go up to 12 or 13 million. now, i really think they’ll stick with 10–if andy takes it great and if not, so be it.

  5. Ivan says:

    I would love to see Andy come back and I still think he can be an above average pitcher in the 09 season.

    Nevertheless, if Pettitte doesn’t come back then I wouldn’t mind if the yanks went with the young pitchers like Hughes, Kennedy and Aceves to battle it out for the 5th spot.

    Hopefully he signs and I still think he will.

  6. Jason Varitek says:

    What about me?!?!?! I can call a great game!

  7. Jason Varitek says:

    I’m still the captain of the Red Soxs. I have a “C” to show for it.

  8. Mike P says:

    What I don’t understand is how the Yanks can dish out all those dollars and years to Sabathia, Burnett and Teixeira, entertain the idea of Cameron and refuse to raise their offer to Pettite by $1 million.

    I think we all agree the Yanks are a better team with Pettite, potentially much better. He is exactly what they need, a back end league average innings eater. What could go wrong?
    I think Pettite’s hesitating because if the team’s bargaining stance is $10 million take it or leave it- knowing that he’s very loyal and unlikely to pitch elsewhere, that’s just disrespectful.

    We saw what happened last time the Yanks took advantage of Pettite’s loyalty, why do it again over a couple of million? Sure he’s not worth $16 million but the way the Yanks have been overpaying the last couple of years, come on! Give him $11-12 million and let’s be done with it.

    • daneptizl says:

      So him leaving for Houston was loyal?

    • gg says:

      its a good changing of culture if you ask me, just b/c we overpaid aging players doesnt mean we should continue to. We might have overpaid for young FA stars but Andy wasnt worth sixteen mill last year or this one. Hes not a top five pitcher in the AL which is what that pay grade makes you. I think we should continue to handle business like this. If we dont, what are we going to pay Jeter when he hits the market again?? 20 per?? no chance. Cash is gonna start being smarter with the cash as we phase young players in. Much like they do up in Bahston you cant get too attached to players, its a business. We kive the Jeter types but if they wanta rob the team bling b/c their the yankees, let em shop around to realize nobody else is paying like that.

      • Mike P says:

        I’m not saying pay him too much money. But you’ll have a hard time convincing me 200 league average innings isn’t worth $11 million. It’s a one year contract, we’re not talking a major contract here. Pettite isn’t Varitek. You’re not overpaying Pettite by giving him a little more than they’ve offered so far.

        If the Yanks don’t want Andy, they shouldn’t make him an offer. What happened to Torre last year left a bad taste in my mouth. Baseball may be a business, but that doesn’t mean you can’t get attached to players and treat them well. Besides, keeping Pettite on a 1 year deal is good for the team.

  9. ryan says:

    Teams are furious bc we basically took the top 3 FA’s in baseball and spent over 400 mill doing it. I dont know if saving 10-16 mill on a pettitte signing is gonna make everyone say “hey, those guys aren’t so bad…. they did lower their salary from last yr…it’s only 200 million now”. Sign pettitte , let hughes develope in AAA like he was suppose to and have as few question marks in the rotation.

  10. kenthadley says:

    To me this is reminiscent of Bernie’s exit…..he could have made the Yanks if he came in for ST, but was quite adamant about not getting what he wanted…..Pettitte seems to be making the same mistake, but for a lot more $……these guys are so well paid throughout their careers that they have an over-inflated opinion of their worth at the end……Derek take note……even Babe Ruth got released…….Mantle was carried for 2-3 years because the Yanks had nothing else, and barely pulled 1 million attendance in late 60′s…….at the end, these guys need to understand that they aren’t worth all that much….Paulie understood that and made the pre-emptive move to retire…..what was Cone at the end? Leiter? Tino?

    and finally, what team pays 10 mil for their 5th starter? Cmon Andy, wake up….otherwise you’ll be a roadie for Bernie’s band in April…….

    • Mike P says:

      If they don’t want Pettite, why offer him a contract? Pettite isn’t playing at the level where he needs to retire. Fans are so hypocritical. Delighted the Yankees outbid the Sox by $10 million on Teixeira ($ 1.25 million a year) but stingy when it comes to Pettite? Why give Andy all this grief? It’s nothing to do with him being a no5 starter, it’s his level of play that determines his value. He’s worth the extra million, especially since he’s basically taking a team friendly deal anyway.

  11. Phil McCracken says:

    I’d give a shot to Prior or Pavano for that 5th spot if Pettitte doesn’t come back, because you know both of them will spend some time on the DL.

    That will allow an opportunity for a AAAer to earn his stripes.

  12. Manimal says:

    Yankees front office is closed isn’t it? I’d atleast expect a verbal agreement but nothing official until it opens up after the holidays.

  13. "The" Steve says:

    I’ve been of the opinion that Matsui would be tough to deal, given the economy and the 13 mil he’s owed coming off knee surgery. But there’s a simple answer to that, trade him for a pitcher making a similar amount of money.

    Joel Sherman suggested yesterday that the Yanks might revisit the Jarrod Washburn deal, offering Matsui in return. With Seattle losing LF Raul Ibanez to free agency, its a perfect fit. That also would solve two problems for the Yanks, the 5th starter and the outfield logjam. Since it would be roughly a wash payroll-wise (13/10.5) and you no longer need to add Pettitte, the 2009 Yanks would go into the season with a payroll around 182 million. Only 15 above the 160 luxury tax threshold.

    http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.c.....60040.html

    182 million, 13% cut from last year’s 209 mil opening day payroll. Let the payroll police scream about that.

    • "The" Steve says:

      22 above, forgot to edit that part.

    • Ryan S. says:

      I do not want Jarrod Washburn on the team – yuck. Matsui should do all right – I’d rather keep him as the DH and depend on one of the prospects, who should do just as good or better than that POS.

      • "The" Steve says:

        His ERA+ was 90 last year, Pettitte’s was 98. Its not a big difference either way.

        Anyone know why Washburn didn’t pitch last September?

        • Ryan S. says:

          I don’t have any numbers or whatever to back me up, but I think that Pettitte has a less shitty year than he did in 2008, and Washburn has a shittier year than he did in 2008.

          I do know that last year Washburn had 87 Ks in 150 IP and Pettitte had 158 in 200 IP, and that Washburn. He had a few good years in LAA when he was younger and won the World Series with them, but I haven’t been impressed with him since he went to Seattle.

          I’d rather keep Matsui and go in with Aceves than trade away a decent bat in exchange for a shitty pitcher who you can’t even depend on for 200 below average innings.

  14. "The" Steve says:

    Oh, and BTW I will be posting as “The” Steve from now on. Somebody dubbed me that the other day and I was very appreciative of the compliment, so there you have it.

  15. kenthadley says:

    note to Ben K….pitchers who have a lot more in the tank after age 35, not counting Mussina of course…….try Glavine, Smoltz, Randy Johnson, Ken Rogers, fat David Wells, Maddox, Derek Lowe, Moyer, Schilling, Wakefield, and my all time favorite, Warren Spahn…..all but Lowe actually had bounceback years after a mediocre year at age 36-37…..so it is not unreasonable to make a case for Andy to have something in the tank…..however, he’s still an idiot for not taking the 10 mil……

    • daneptizl says:

      Could name at least 10x that many pitchers who weren’t good at those ages…

      • kenthadley says:

        your point?

        • Ben K. says:

          His point is that you’re cherry-picking exceptions. There are way more pitchers who weren’t good at age 37 and didn’t get any better. To compare Andy Pettitte to some all-time greats like Randy Johnson, Greg Maddux and Warren Spahn is to ignore reality. He’s not that good. He never was. He never will be. To expect him to improve much at age 37 is simply not a good baseball idea.

          • kenthadley says:

            yeah but these cherries are low hanging fruit…..as you see from my comments I think Andy should have jumped at the offer….however, it strikes me that the Andy-bangers are making their judgments based on the last two months of last year…….I think it is totally reasonable to realize a 14-9 season out of Andy in 2009, which makes him a primo 5th starter…..also would like to have him bullpen ready in the playoffs…..worth 10 Mil? only to NYY…..but IMO a good risk….

  16. Ken says:

    If they let Petitte walk. They better bring a veteran on a minor league contract. Cashman did not do this last year and he got burned when Hughes and Kennedy didn’t perform well. Someone like Colon, Freddy Garcia.

    • Old Ranger says:

      Marry Christmas people…

      Last year was much different; we had three rookies (more or less), Joba, Phil and IPK, two of which were to be starters. They had pressure(+) put on them, this year they only have to do their thing…relax and pitch.
      Let’s face it, Phil and IPK were not ready for last year. This year, they both know that they need to pitch their best game every time out…or, back to AAA! Phil and to some degree IPK has shown they have what it takes to be in the big show. Unless an injury slows them down, I expect to see them both on the (a) roster sometime in 2009.
      Andy coming back would not be the worse thing for this staff, Andy not coming back also fits similaraly. 27/09.

      • Ryan S. says:

        Merry Christmas to you and your family Old Ranger.

        I agree that if we don’t get Andy back, I’d want to go with one of the kids. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Aceves be the guy who would win it, he’s the oldest and should be strong enough to pitch as many innings as Andy could.

    • ryan says:

      If they pass on pettitte they should go with hughes in the 5th spot. A backup veteran in the minors would be nice but it would further clog the AAA Rotation that already has too many options. I think the pitching depth is better this year than last. Hughes has takin’ his lumps and seems to be ready for a bounceback season. IPK,Aceves and Coke should all be getting work in Scranton and ready for callups. If they could some how convince a team to take Igawa off their hands it would free up a spot for someone who’s actually usefull like a Garcia…seems to me that should be the next yankee move…riding themselves of Igawa and saving 5 mill a yr.

      • "The" Steve says:

        You can’t go with Hughes, both he and Joba have innings limits. Aceves is the more likely choice.

        • ryan says:

          As far as innings are concerned yes. hughes will most likely max out at 150 along with Joba. Make no mistake tho,they will use hughes in that 5th spot if he’s knocking down the door in ST which i expect him to. Long man may be busy in 09 and you can always call up aceves o spot start, u don’t have to go crazy and give him 200 innings. Aceves had a good stint when he got called up …so did kennedy in 07 and rasner in 08 for a few starts. Hughes is certainly more of an option than aceves regardless of innings

          • Ryan S. says:

            Rasner sucked last year. Once the scouts figured him out he was dead meat.

            Innings are kind of a big deal, y’know – and so is a stable rotation. One highly touted young arm at a time, please. My money would be on Aceves or even IPK, who should be capable of 190+ innings condition wise…only question is would they be quality ones? Apparently he can throw a curve for a strike in any count now, and that could be the difference between success and failure for a guy like him.

            • 'The' Steve says:

              I think the job will be won out of spring training, with a preference given to the two guys (Aceves/IPK) who don’t have innings limits.

              I really liked what I saw out of Aceves last year. He’s very tough, has good stuff and a complete arsenal to get guys out with. Reminds me a lot of El Duque, who was one of my all time faves. I know Nardi LOVES the guy, so he has fans within the organization.

              It’s the 5th starter, so you really just need league average innings out of the guy. If I had to bet, I would put my $$ on Al.

              • Ryan S. says:

                Definitely agreed. Aceves is also 26 years old – I like the thought of having a guy just entering his prime out on the mound. We might be at the just the right time to get his peak years…I’m interested to see if he can hold his own in the #4 spot (I’m assuming that’s where he’d go so Joba can still get skipped more easily).

          • 'The' Steve says:

            I think they want Phil to keep working on some things (cutter/change up) in AAA this year. If he is dominating, and Aceves is struggling, maybe they switch roles.

            It is possible to put Hughes and Joba in the rotation, but you would wind up spot starting Aceves here and there for both of them, maybe once a month a piece. In that case, might as well just hand Alfredo the job and let Phil work on some things in AAA.

            • ryan says:

              Agreed … Phil has things to work on … AAA can only do him good. maybe this will give us a better look at aceves and give IPK another chance. I just think he’ll make it really hard on them to make that decision.. if the kid looks like a stud ready to go it’s gonna be tough to say no. hey Igawa’s inning are up ( JK ).

  17. Ken says:

    Who do you think is going to be traded pick one, 2, or none of the following:

    A. Swisher
    B. Nady
    C. Damon
    D. Matsui
    E. None of the Above

    • kenthadley says:

      they need Damon as a leadoff hitter……Matsui has very limited value, and is a good bounceback bet for DH…lefty in Yankee Stadium……so it is either Nady or Swisher…..plenty of interest in Swisher….some in Nady……Mets would like either one, but have very little to return……Braves would like either on and have a lot in the minors for return……Colorado might want to replace Holiday……..these guys could bring some good minor league talent back…….and we still need a CF, unless we think Swisher/Gardner/Melky will fill the role…..so, either Nady or Swisher……

      • gg says:

        the carlos gonzales kid they got is ony like 22 but supposed to become an excellent hitter, hes the long term replacement, as far as short term…what do they have for Nady… Nady for Street? I say hold on to Swisher, we gave up very little to get him and we’d be selling low right now plus the guy is signed reasonablly for the net few years if he becomes the swisher of old

      • Old Ranger says:

        Swisher doesn’t have the speed to cover a lot of ground in CF, I see him as OK in the corners…maybe equal to Nady(?). I believe with the addition of Tex (or without) Brett/Melky are very good for CF and back-up to the other two spots…defensively, it would be an up-grade over anyone else we have. 27/09.

        • Ryan S. says:

          I believe that’s the way its going to turn out, thankfully. I would love to see Gardner be good enough to play everyday for us – he’d be a worthy successor to Damon if his skill can translate into the big leagues and give the team an extra dimension offensively with his speed – I think 40 SB is not an unfair expectation for a guy like him.

          If he or Cabrera are able to be a long term solution, it will give us a great outfield defense in the future with AJax still headed for the big leagues in 2010.

          • Old Ranger says:

            True, I would much prefer a very good defensive OF with avg.+ hitters then one filled with big poppers and very little defense. We have the pitching to keep the scores down conversely, we need the defense to help the pitchers. Melky, A-Jax (hopefully) and Brett would be a very good OF…question is, can they give enough hitting?
            Projections are just supposition but; Melky does like he has in winter ball(+/-), A-Jax lives up to his expectations, and Brett has his 2nd call-up(+/-) type year, we would all be happy.
            All of which is just supposition and a little wishful thinking…maybe, maybe not. 27/09.

            • Ryan S. says:

              I’m hoping at least one of the 2 guys this year, Cabrera and Gardner, find their stride – we’re gonna need one of the corner spots open for Jeter anyway, right? I’m sure AJax will take his lumps next year if he does indeed make it into the bigs, but we could survive that transition if everyone else in the lineup is reliable.

              • Old Ranger says:

                I sometimes have the feeling Jeter may want to go out as a SS, meaning he may want a 1-2 year contract (if he is still doing well enough) then retire. Or just retire at the end of this contract…on top, rather then moving. He has all the money he will ever need plus, many more records coming in the next 2 years.
                Would he ever contemplate moving…good, big question? If not, what then? I know what my answer would be but, others are more sentimental then I am…team 1st and always! 27/09.

                • Ryan S. says:

                  Agreed. I think he’ll get as long of a shelf life as is possible as a shortstop and as a player in general as a Yankee anyway, where is marquee value is exponentially higher here than anywhere else.

                  I also think that Jeter is going to want as long of a contract as possible – I bet 5 years. If Jeter really is the captain and wants to do what’s best for the team, he’ll take the LF spot and a 4 year/60M contract when its offered to him. I think that’s incredibly fair.

    • Old Ranger says:

      Nady, the others have one or more things we need more. Also (as someone pointed out in the last thread) he has Borasss as his agent.
      Swisher-switch hitter, good numbers
      Johnny-good lead-off hitter (contract year)
      Matsui-Damn good DH (contract year)
      Nady has improved over the years but, do we want to have him back (at much more money) over someone like Carl Crawford? 27/09.

    • ryan says:

      Swisher …Nady is clutch…plus im not thrilled with a guy who bats 240 and production is dropping …nady just had one of his best yrs and could be on the rise at least for 09.

      • daneptizl says:

        But you do like someone who seemingly just had a fluke year considering his career batting line was .280/.335/.458…………..

        • ryan says:

          swisher career numbers : 244/354/451 ….where do u see an upgrade besides a .020 + in OBP. swisher never batted 280 in his life let alone over 300 like nady did last year.

      • 'The' Steve says:

        You have to wonder about certain guys in the post steroid era. There’s no reason for Andruw Jones to be washed up at the age 30, but turned out he was.

        Again, I want to see him do it for a while before I hand him a starter’s role. Its very possible his numbers will decline further, as Jones’s did this year. That would be a disaster.

    • "The" Steve says:

      The Yanks would prefer to move Matsui, but that will only happen if they take back a contract just as big. Matsui for a veteran 5th starter sounds about right to me.

    • Ryan S. says:

      I’d probably go with E, none of the above.

      Nothing wrong with us keeping Swisher on board as a super utility who gives some of the old guys days days off and gives us some pop off the bench, and next year, if he shows that he has bounced back, he can take over a corner when Damon and Nady hit the market.

      If someone did get traded, it would probably be Nady – his trade value is easily the highest of the 4.

      • "The" Steve says:

        If you trade Nady, who plays RF? Swisher? That’s a big step down offensively, going from a last season OPS of .847 to a .742.

        I want Swisher to prove to me he’s still got it before I hand him a full time job.

        • daneptizl says:

          Swisher>Nady…

          • "The" Steve says:

            Thanks, that was enlightening.

            • daneptizl says:

              Anyday. I don’t need to provide much more than that.

              • "The" Steve says:

                If you want to convince yourself, which is already the case.

                If your hoping to persuade anyone else, then you’ll have to try a little harder.

              • daneptizl says:

                Oh dear…

                Nady’s career line: .280/.335/.458 108 OPS+… 87 HRs

                Swish’s career line: .244/.354/.457 112 OPS+ 104 HRs

                Then I take into account that Swish is 2 years younger and 2 years left of his prime…

                • 'The' Steve says:

                  Player X .259/.339/.489 OPS+111

                  Do you like this career line?

                  http://www.baseball-reference......an01.shtml

                  Do you still like it?

                  What Swisher did 3 years ago doesn’t interest me, I’m more interested in the player he is today.

                  With Nady, he has steadily progressed from a platoon player who couldn’t hit righties to one who hit righties better than lefties last year.

                  2006 OPS+102
                  2007 OPS+107
                  2008 OPS+128

                  That’s what I like to see.

                • 'The' Steve says:

                  More on Nady’s progression

                  Platoon splits vs Righties
                  2005 .222/.270/.431
                  2006 .263/.312/.424
                  2007 .274/.322/.479
                  2008 .317/.357/.529

                  Steady progress in each category each year. Last year wasn’t a ‘career year’ as his critics charge, it was something he was building towards annually.

                • daneptizl says:

                  lmao wtf. You just threw a random line out there and it’s somehow supposed to compare to Swisher? So you’d pick Duscherer with his 2.54 ERA and .995 WHIP over most other pitchers because he showed he can cut is as a starter? Since he’s proved that’s the type of starter he is ‘now’? The improvement argument doesn’t really work he’s only noticeably improved in 1 year… There’s a natural range in a players career. Since A-Rod’s ’06 season wasn’t as good as his ’05 season doesn’t mean he was ‘in decline’…

                • Old Ranger says:

                  The Steve says;
                  Nady’s Platoon splits vs Righties
                  2005 .222/.270/.431
                  2006 .263/.312/.424
                  2007 .274/.322/.479
                  2008 .317/.357/.529

                  Steady progress in each category each year. Last year wasn’t a ‘career year’ as his critics charge, it was something he was building towards annually.
                  ——————
                  OK Steve; you have changed my mind, somewhat. You have very well made points. Hadn’t thought of the drugs part, thanks for the heads up. 27/09.

        • Ryan S. says:

          Yeah, that’s why I’d prefer to keep Swisher and play him as a utility while Nady stays in RF. The question was who do you *think* will be traded, and it seems to me that Nady would indeed be the likeliest if one were to happen.

          • "The" Steve says:

            But the fact that you would be left with Swisher as a starter is why I think Nady is less likely. Matsui is the one who is clogging things up, he is their starting DH at this point. You just have to find someone who’s making similar money.

            • Ryan S. says:

              Not Washburn! Who else is a viable candidate? I think Matsui is going to be productive this year, but his trade value is really depressed. Only someone as shitty enough as Washburn would “make sense”, except it doesn’t, because he sucks and we’d be at a net loss since I don’t think he’s going to do much better than one of the kids.

              • Reggie C. says:

                The question you gotta ask: Could Washburn approximate Pettitte’s stats from ’08? I’m not asking if he’s better. I’m just asking if Washburn can put up a 4.50 ERA. He’s making 9 million next season.

              • Reggie C. says:

                Ryan. I do agree that Hughes is a better bet to deliver a sub-4.50 ERA. I just think that the Yanks want added veteran depth for one year and let Hughes, Aceves, IPK get additional seasoning. Injuries or just run-of-the-mill soreness happen so its likely these guys spot-start anyways.

                • Ryan S. says:

                  I was saying before that I’d rather Aceves or IPK get the job than Hughes. Aceves should be good for 200+ innings, IPK for 190+, while Hughes is limited to about 150. I think Aceves is actually a pretty good bet – 26 year old guy with a low 90s fastball and 3 other pitches, good command of them, can throw any pitch in any count. Hughes remains the #6 starter, and IPK #7, with Giese as your long man.

                  I’d take that setup, plus Matsui as a worthy DH (who else needs the DH spot besides Damon or Posada every once in a while?), over no Matsui and Jarrod Washburn. I’m open to the idea of trading Matsui but give me a better alternative, please!

                  In theory, yes, Washburn could approximate Pettite’s stats from ’08, but so could Randy Wolf. Or Randy Johnson. Doesn’t mean I’d bet on it (please don’t misunderstand me, I was not advocating getting either of the aforementioned Randys).

                • daneptizl says:

                  Hughes can throw more than that. He said so.

                • ryan says:

                  coke as a darkhorse?

                • Ryan S. says:

                  Chase Wright is actually probably the dark horse to win the last rotation spot. Coke is going to need some more time in the minors if he wants to be a starter.

  18. Mike Pop says:

    At CC and AJ’s press conference, everyone said they have been talking to him and he wants to come back. Now this is before we added 22.5 (assuming) to the payroll.

    Andy will be back, we want him back and it would complete the team in my opinion. Thats 200 innings and that is valuable for us.

    I dont want to see more Ponson type guys. But I would of liked to see R.A. Dickey lol

  19. gg says:

    I read this article and my take on it was that it was pure speculation….The yanks will be happy if Andy shows up to eat his 200 innings

  20. Ken says:

    The minor league veteran could be immediately released if he doesn’t perform well and given a short contract (4-6 wks.) with an option . This would be a safety net if none of the kids fill the 5th spot. The Sox did it with Colon last year.

  21. Januz says:

    First off, Merry Christmas to all. On to Andy Pettitte. The Pettitte situation was handled badly by both Andy and the Hendricks Brothers. When Cashman decided not to go after Santana, he stressed holding on to Phil Hughes ect, thus in essence, sacrificing the 2008 season, and gambling he could sign Sabathia. He would look like an idiot, if he failed to give Hughes a chance in 2009. Next, even a hard case like Boras understands the way the market is, and after consulting with Tex, took the $180m offer, and stopped playing games, and risking the Yankees walking away. In addition, he did not demand opt out clauses for Tex, and instead got a full no trade clause (Which is fair, Tex commits to the Yankees, and vice versa). The Hendricks Brothers did not do that, floating bogus three year $12m offers, which everyone knew would not happen.
    This is why Tex is here, and Andy is not.

    • 'The' Steve says:

      I’ve been thinking the same things since Tex signed. Had Andy already signed, the Yanks might have been less enthused to pursue Tex, since they would be over their payroll target if they did.

      Though I still believe the Yanks planned on going after Tex all along, the only difference being whether they look to dump Matsui’s contract (likely p/u some of it) for nothing in terms of talent or if they take an equal salary back. Either way, they wind up at their target.

  22. mustang says:

    By the way I like to wish everyone and their families a very Merry Christmas.
    You guys make baseball a lot more fun.

  23. Reggie C. says:

    Merry Christmas RAB.

  24. Ken says:

    Thanks. Its been a great XMAS for Yanks fans. I am so happy with all the improvements the team has made. I can’t wait for the season to start.

    • Old Ranger says:

      From one Ken to another…
      I am with you on the season starting.

      ——————-
      By the way I like to wish everyone and their families a very Merry Christmas.
      You guys make baseball a lot more fun.

      ———————————
      As usual mustang, you hit it very succinctly, very Merry Christmas to all posters on Rab.
      More so for the 3 guys that had the creativity, ability, optimism and guts to start and maintain this site…Ben K, Joseph P and Mike A. 27/09.

  25. Lanny says:

    They wouldnt be bringing him back for nostalgia. They’d be bringing back a pretty solid pitcher who still won 14 games last yr with a crappy team. And hes lefty and hes a proven Yankee/NY performer. Id much rather see Andy P out there than Ian Kennedy.

  26. MikeD says:

    Pettitte’s a bargain at $10 million. He’s a lefty pitcher; not bothered by New York; likes to pitch in big games; throws more than 200 innings a year, even when injured; and clearly pitched in bad luck last year with the higest batting average on balls in play. He also only requires a one year deal, which gives Hughes and IPK more time to develop. The Yankees know all this, too, which is why Pettitte will be back next season.

  27. 'The' Steve says:

    they could not care “about Baseball”

  28. Ben K. says:

    You know we’ve had a post up for an hour already featuring that quote and that article? It’s right here.

  29. Ryan S. says:

    The money doesn’t lie. As all teams, not just the Yankees, continue to increase their payroll, baseball in turn has been generating more and more revenue, consistently reaching record breaking levels. As an overall business model, baseball is working just fine.

    As for parity, once you make it to the playoffs, all bets are off. Everybody has a shot at being the team that wins, its just about who is hot at the right time. Are the Yankees going to be one of the 8 teams who makes it to the playoffs? Probably. But I don’t see most people willing to concede that automatically when we’re in the same division as Boston and the new look Rays. Its not like we’re in the NL West and a team like this could have a season sweep against every single one of its rivals in such a weak division. We’re just doing our best to keep up with the competition … any accomplishments made this year will still be hard earned and well deserved. To steal a line from Shakespeare, would a save by Mo smell any less sweet with a lower payroll?

  30. 'The' Steve says:

    Whoops! I’ll post my reply there.

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