Dec
09

No one’s sure of much at the Winter Meetings

By

You don’t have to be in Las Vegas to get the sense of uncertainty surrounding Major League Baseball. There haven’t been any major signings in this free agency period, and it appears that the most sought-after free agents — Sabathia, Teixeira, Burnett — will end the week still unemployed. So what gives?

It appears that teams are playing everything close to their chests. Information continues to leak out, but in most cases it is quickly debunked. Just check out MLB Trade Rumors, where the tireless Tim Dierkes is not only reporting on every rumor he sees, but is constantly updating posts with new information, most of which contradicts the original reports.

Let’s take the Ben Sheets situation for example. Last night, while I was losing $100 on blackjack, Ben found a Mark Feinsand report that the Yanks were preparing an offer to the righty in the two-year, $30 million range. A bit later, Joel Sherman, who like most people here is shorter than I imagined him, said that the Yankees aren’t quite sure they’ll make an offer. Then, later in the night (or early in the morning), Feinsand updated his post to say that the offer would be in the $26 million range.

So are they going to make an offer? How much will it guarantee Sheets? What are his other prospects? At this time we don’t have answers to those questions. Everyone will do some digging, though, and I’m sure we’ll hear something later today about another team, possibly the Red Sox, becoming interested. Little will come of it, at least in the immediate future.

Even in the cases of players who seem closer to signing or being traded — Francisco Rodriguez and Jake Peavy, most notably — we’re still not sure exactly what’s going on. Omar Minaya and his crew supposedly met with the closer on Sunday and made an offer. That was rumored to be for three years, then we heard two and a vesting option. Now we’re back to hearing three guaranteed, for $37 million. The Peavy trade now supposedly involves four teams, and could go down as early as today.

I’m really hoping these moves do happen. It would at least be good for the mood around here. However, even though they’re proclaimed to be close, I’m not quite sure. I’m not quite sure of anything out here in Vegas.

Categories : Hot Stove League

163 Comments»

  1. Yank Crank 20 says:

    Are you sure you lost $100??

  2. Dan says:

    Things seem so slow as of late. I think some kind of blockbuster trade will go down today.

  3. daneptizl says:

    I want Delmon…

  4. Mike Pop says:

    YOu guys are staying the whole week right ?

  5. A.D. says:

    Probably teams are tired for overpaying because “mystery teams” offered some big contract. Especially with this economy no one wants to shell out any more they they want to.

  6. Matt says:

    According to mlb.com the yanks are going hard after burnett. If thats true, anyone think that is an indication that the meeting between sabathia and cashman didnt go well and cashman wants to get the second best pitcher on the market before anyone else does.

    • Ivan says:

      I doubt it. From Cashman Perspective and other sources, that the convosation between the yanks and CC Sabathia were pretty solid and he was on their list.

      Weren’t they gonna offer Sheets a two year deal at 26M?

    • Mike Pop says:

      The meeting reportedly went well but maybe it didnt… I would not look too much into it, Cash said he wanted to add at least 2 pitchers and one of pettite or mussina before mussina retired

  7. A.D. says:

    Pretty much makes following rumors a waste of time

  8. Ivan says:

    Can somebody sign please, the suspense and waiting around is just killin me right now.

  9. steve (different one) says:

    basically no one knows what the hell is going on. what a bizarre offseason.

    wouldn’t K-Rod signing for $37M/3 be a pretty clear signal that the market is declining?

    he was seeking $75M/5 just a few months ago.

    it would mean that Francisco Cordero got more money from the Reds last offseason.

    the market is flooded with closers and corner OF/1B types.

  10. Yank Crank 20 says:

    My god if teams hated the Mets before, just wait til you have to watch K-Rod after he closes a Mets win.

  11. christopher says:

    really sucks for the yankees that the market is flooded with the wrong type of players this year

    • radnom says:

      Yeah, all those damn starting pitchers.

      Exactly what we need less of around here.

      To be fair, it would be nice if there were a decent CF available.

  12. SWB says:

    Mike or Joe,

    Reports strongly link the Yanks to CC, Burnett, and Sheets. Any chance they land all three? A rotation of CC, Burnett, Wang, Sheets, Joba would be pretty strong and we could probably get Sheets for less for this year than Pettitte

  13. Moore says:

    I believe the Braves should go after Sheets they could get him for like 3 years worth 45 million. They would then still be able to go after A.J. what a staff that would make plus they may get Smoltz and Hudson back at some point as well.

    • Reggie C. says:

      NO team should purposefully look to sign both those guys. Each individually represents a significant injury risk each season. I think it makes total sense for the Braves to look to trade for Greinke, who’s 2 years away from free agency. It makes more sense for the Braves to sign one of the 2 and trade for Greinke.

  14. christopher says:

    Lowe, Sheets and Manny

    Cant take this Sabathia crap anymore. At least Manny is forthcoming and says he wants to go for the money.

    How much longer do they have to have the offer out there for him. I know free agents do not sign until mid-December, but how many free agents have had a deal 40 million higher than the next guy out there for almost a month now

    • I know free agents do not sign until mid-December, but how many free agents have had a deal 40 million higher than the next guy out there for almost a month now?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Rodriguez

    • Mike Pop says:

      A-Rod, CC, Manny, Zito, Silva ?

    • steve (different one) says:

      I know free agents do not sign until mid-December, but how many free agents have had a deal 40 million higher than the next guy out there for almost a month now

      and how many premier free agents have ever been on the market for almost a month and have gotten ZERO offers?

      there is almost no precedent for anything that has happened this offseason.

      as far as we know, these are the outstanding offers:

      Sabathia – Yankees/Brewers
      Teixeira – NONE, have the Angels made an official offer yet?
      Lowe – NONE
      Manny – NONE. one offer, but it was pulled back
      Dunn – NONE
      Burnett – Braves
      Sheets – NONE
      K-Rod – the Mets, maybe?

      after that, what do we have? an offer to Casey Blake? a handful of rinky-dink contracts to relievers? a few trades here and there.

      it’s insane how little activity there has been so far.

  15. I was thinking this morning on my way to work about the whole CC-Tex-Yankees-Angels gambit (you know, that CC’s waiting on the Angles to sign/not sign Tex to see if they enter the bidding on him), and I came up with this:

    Why not make it a joint proposal? Bring both CC and Tex together in the same room and pitch simultaneous deals to them? And bring ARod and Jeter in the meeting as well…

    Cashman: “CC, we’ll give you 6/150, Tex, we’ll give you 8/180. We want the two of you, with ARod and Derek, to be the core of our team going forward. No team has ever had four $20M men before; you four will be the face of our franchise. You’re not as dynamic or explosive apart, but together, with a great young supporting cast of Joba, Swisher, Cano, Wang, Sheets, Jackson, Melancon, etc., the Yankees will be the dominant team in baseball for the next decade. The four of you together will be a game-winning and marketing phenomenon. Four of the best players in the game, all making the superstar salaries they deserve, in the media and baseball capital of the world.”

    • Cashman: “CC and Mark, the Dodgers want one of you. The Angels want one of you. The Red Sox want one of you. But your futures will be better together… we want both of you. And nobody else is willing, or able, to commit to winning the way we are. Nobody else is willing to commit to both of you the way we will. Nobody else will support you and put you in a position to win titles the way we will.”

      • A.D. says:

        It would actually be pretty brilliant

      • Mike Pop says:

        You should be a fucken GM.. I been saying for a while that if you sign one first the other one might be more enticed to come here. The way you put that together was a well thought out process and now I have more respect for you.

        • steve (different one) says:

          it’s a great way to sell it to them, but the problem is that the Yankees don’t seem to have the appetite to add two gigantic contracts.

          obviously i don’t know a damn thing about what will happen, but it seems like there has to be a choice, and the Yankees are choosing CC.

          they will have to find another way to upgrade the offense for less money/fewer years.

      • Reggie C. says:

        Nicely put TSJC. I think Boras would cry tears of joy at getting 8/180, and if he had to, forge Tex’s name on that contract. CC on the other hand would take that offer to the Dodgers/Giants and ask for $125 Million. Did you hear that CC will meet with the SF pple next weekend? CC is stalling like nobody’s business.

        • Mike Pop says:

          CC knows this contract will set him up for life. He wants to see how high it can get. He knows that if Sox sign Tex, Angels bid on him lets say for that 125. Yanks will up theirs to 150-156 probably don’t you think ? Then he would go back to Angels to see if they up theirs. That is what he wants to see happen

          • Reggie C. says:

            I don’t see the Yanks budge from 150 Million. The current offer is essentially there best foot forward as it trumps the Santana deal. I am thinking that Cash should put a deadline on the offer.

            • Ron says:

              “The current offer is essentially there (sic) best foot forward as it trumps the Santana deal”

              Only an amateur opens a negotiation with his best offer, and Cash is no amateur. I believe he has plenty in reserve, and CC is trying to find out how much.

              • Mike Pop says:

                Agreed Ron

              • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi says:

                I agree, for the most part, but I think the issue is a bit more nuanced. Clearly it’s never wise to make your absolutely best offer as your initial offer, however I think in this situation the Yankees made an offer that is closer to their best offer than they may have made in other situations (i.e. their initial offer is higher, relative to what they perceive the floor and ceiling in thiese negotiations to be, than usual). I think they made a calculated ploy to make an initial offer on the higher(est) end of the spectrum in order to accomplish certain goals (for example, expressing their interest to CC himself and dissuading other potential bidders from entering the fray). At this point (pending resolution of the negotiation), this ploy seems to have been successful (whether CC signs with the Yankees or not).

                It’s a minor distinction. I think the Yankees have something in reserve to offer CC, I just think they have less relative to what they’d normal hold back in reserve.

                Sometimes it’s advantageous to make a very high initial offer, if the conditions call for it (as I think the Yankees think they did here), and there’s nothing amateurish about that. It’s a strategic ploy based on the negotiator’s analysis of market conditions, and one that I think has been successful here.

    • MrJigginz says:

      Cashman:”We shall unleash you 4 upon the world with the name…Fantastic 4…Derek,you shall be Mr.Fantastic.Mark,you, will be The Human Torch.CC,you shall now garner the name of Thing…Which will leave the name of The Invisible Woman to…”

  16. Mike Pop says:

    TSJC you will see that on Sherman’s blog tomorrow. Haha, he is like here is my idea I thought about on my way to work this morning. I did not read this off any other blog or anything, this is all my own idea

  17. A.D. says:

    ZOMG Casey Blake reached an agreement!!!! Hot Stove is heating up

  18. AndrewYF says:

    RAB -

    Congrats on getting a hat-tip from MLBTR on the Feinsand update. A fine establishment you guys run here.

  19. MaddMatt says:

    Anyone else just listen to Mike Francesa’s opening?

    I am 100% on board with it. It’s time to move past CC. He obviously doesn’t want to pitch here. The offer has been out there for almost a month now, and what is he waiting for?

    He wants to hit, he wants to be in the NL, cool. It’s better off. He’s been waiting for some other offer to come in that’s close, and it’s just not there, so it’s time to move on.

    A few things he said that I loved:

    “You are the Yankees, act like it”.
    -Agreed, we can’t be beggers, he obviously prefers Cali and the NL, which is alright.

    “I can’t wait till the Yankees sign him at 150 or whatever the magic number is and he says ‘I’ve always wanted to be a Yankee, it’s been a dream of mine’ “.
    -BS, if he wanted to be a Yank, it would have been an easy decision after a few weeks of checking up on other offers…

    Plan B: Tex 8 yrs 160mil, Lowe 4yrs 60 mil, and Sheets 2yrs 30 mil, Andy 1yr 12mil

    2009 Team:
    C – Posada, Molina
    1B – Tex
    2B – Cano
    3B – ARod
    SS – Jet
    LF – Damon
    CF – ?
    RF – Nady
    DH – Matsui

    Util – Swish, Nick Punto (reports are the Yanks are interested, good INF utility), Melky, Garder (if we sign Tex, I can live with either in CF and the other as util)

    Rotation:
    Wang
    Pettitte
    Lowe
    Joba
    Sheets

    Figuring salaries, some guys due raises, in arb, I figure around 196

    • Mike Pop says:

      But then again Francesca wants to trade A-Jax, Hughes, and Gardner for McClouth

    • MaddMatt, anytime one of your thoughts starts with the sentences:

      “Anyone else just listen to Mike Francesa’s opening? I am 100% on board with it.”

      … you should consider giving up on thinking. Just buy a shitload of Jello, or pudding (or Jello brand pudding) and some straws and sit back waiting for the Rapture, because it’s over for you.

      • MaddMatt says:

        Haha, I knew I’d catch some flack (sp?) for that one, but this time I do. He’s usually crazy, but this time I do.

        It’s obvious CC doesn’t want to pitch here. He’s done his homework looking for other offers and they aren’t there.

        So the arguements of “NEGOTIATING 101 gdsjfshjfsd!!!!, you idiot” aren’t valid anymore.

        What’s he waiting for?

        • Mike Pop says:

          The Angels to miss out on Tex and make a serious bid for him, then he wants us to up our offer

          • MaddMatt says:

            I don’t see anyone competing with the Angels’ offer for Tex though.

            Does anyone else think CC is playing the Yanks, and that the Yanks should just wait hand and foot for him?

            Move onto Tex, then the Angels or Brewers can have him.

        • Joseph P. says:

          Jesus fucking Christ. It’s a major life decision. It’s moving across the country from his family. Why not give him all the time he needs to think about it?

          Plus, Franscessa doesn’t say things that are smart. He says things that will rouse his audience.

          • Mike Pop says:

            Wow Joe, a little upset ?

            • Joseph P. says:

              I’m completely sick and tired of the “CC doesn’t want to pitch in NY” rhetoric. It’s unfounded and completely devoid of rational thought.

              There’s no denying his preference to play out West. But it’s clear that the teams out there don’t covet him as much as the Yankees. It’s like when we went after Damon. He preferred to stay in Boston, but was overwhelmed with the Yankees offer.

              So CC meets with the Yankees — twice — to see what life is like in New York. How does that make him sound disinterested?

        • Nady Nation says:

          Just out of curiousity, did Fatcesa even offer any backup plans for the Yankees to consider? I know he’s on record as not wanting EITHER Burnett or Teixeira, so I’d love to hear what direction he thinks the Yanks should go in if they don’t get CC.

    • steve (different one) says:

      when you find yourself nodding in agreement to Mike Francessa, maybe it’s a good time to step back and reconsider your positions?

  20. Reggie C. says:

    Rotoworld has a breakdown of the potential FOUR team trade in which the Cubs end up with Peavy.

    The Padres are supposed to get: Sean Marshall, Garrett Olsen, JA Happ ……….

    Hahahahaha. Towers will get killed by the press if that’s what he ends up with.

    • Mike Pop says:

      He would get killed by Pads fans if that happens..

      What are those guys? 2′s or 3′s in all seriousness ? How do J.A. and Olsen project ?

      Marshall is like a solid 3 right?

  21. MaddMatt says:

    “12:00am: Yahoo’s Tim Brown talked to an AL exec whose team is in the market for a shortstop, and learned that the Rangers are quietly shopping Michael Young. Young’s five-year, $80MM extension will begin next year. He’s got no-trade protection to deal with. The Rangers would want young pitching back for Young. It will be hard to find a team willing to take on that contract.’

    Um, let’s get this guy. Cano + your choice of Hughes/Kennedy, if it’s Kennedy, we’ll throw in a 2nd tier prospect.

    Sorry to double post btw…

  22. KP says:

    For the love of God and all things Holy why are we choosing CC over Tex? Cash is making himself look like an idiot – sorry.

    I would go with Tex and take a rotation of Wang, Joba, Hughes, Lowe/Burnett and Sheets ANY DAY over getting CC + Lowe/Burnett.

    Reply with this – Tex orr CC?

    Tex for me.

    • Reggie C. says:

      These games have gone on long enough for me. CC is scheduling teams for next week now??

      Get Tex.

    • steve (different one) says:

      For the love of God and all things Holy why are we choosing CC over Tex?

      because he is the more valuable player.

      Cash is making himself look like an idiot – sorry.

      no he isn’t.

      • MaddMatt says:

        Why not? The Yankees as an organization look like FOOLS.

        It’s like that kid in HS who wants to date the pretty girl, but she never gives him the time of day. The kid keeps going after the girl, she ignores him, keeps perusing, and finally she says yes and agrees to take him to the dance, but never shows up.

        • steve (different one) says:

          no, they don’t.

          you are allowing the dregs of talk radio to form your opinions for you, instead of thinking about things rationally.

          • MaddMatt says:

            Not true, cause I said like a week or so ago to move on the CC because he obviously didn’t want to play here and got shit on because people were saying he was being a smart negotiator….

            In the end, he obviously never wants to come to nyc…

            • In the end, he obviously never wants to come to nyc…

              DUDE, IT’S NOT THE FUCKING END. CC SABATHIA HAS NOT REJECTED OUR OFFER OR ACCEPTED ANYBODY ELSE’S OFFER. WHAT THE FUCK IS THE MATTER WITH YOU THAT YOU CAN’T GET THAT FACT THROUGH YOUR HEAD.

              I’m sorry for shouting. But, seriously. CALM DOWN. Everything you’re saying is pure speculation on your part. You have no idea how much or how little he wants to come here, just like I have no idea how much or how little he wants to come here. So, since neither of us are CC Sabathia, why don’t we stop leaping to foolish conclusions, especially ones that could conceivably prevent us from signing the premier free agent on the market, and just wait to see what happens.

              Because no matter how much you want to insist that A) he doesn’t want to come here and B) we’re looking like fools, the following things are all true:

              1.) We have the biggest offer on the table.
              2.) The only other offer on the table is $40M smaller, and not from a team remotely near CC’s hometown.
              3.) CC has not rejected our offer.
              4.) CC has not received an offer from anyone he’d likely prefer over ours.
              5.) We have not panicked and bid against ourselves, nor have we offered more than his market value.
              6.) We have had more exploratory dialogue and more direct signs of interest from CC than he has shown anybody else.
              7.) None of the clubs in CC’s home state, his presumptive preferred destination, appear to be financially willing or able to propose an offer to CC at any point in the immediate future, and if they do, all of them would likely be offering less in terms of either years or dollars, making our offer still the best.
              8.) If one of those teams did make such an offer, we would have the opportunity to raise our offer to an amount prohibitive to counteroffer, which we would most certainly do.
              9.) Most importantly, the fact that CC has not yet accepted our offer does NOT mean that he will not eventually accept our offer. Nothing that has happened thus far in the CC negotiation is at all out of the ordinary or indicative that CC refuses to come here. It’s all the normal negotiation process. Pitchers and catchers don’t report until two damn months from now, we’re still really, really early here.

              So, if you step back from the ledge for a second and look at things rationally, you’ll see there’s no need to panic. However, if instead of thinking rationally and examining things for yourself, you listen to well-known idiots like Francesa and the staffs of the Daily News and Post, you’ll hear nothing but their anti-Yankee vitriol and spin, and you’ll leap to the same thickheaded and anti-Yankee prejudiced conclusions they do.

              Stop listening to/reading well known idiots and engage in some critical thinking of your own.

              • jsbrendog says:

                <—— having santana trade-itis recurrance. this shit is pissing me off

                ZORGG!!!! pull the trigger cashman! YOU HAS NEH BALLS!

        • Mike Pop says:

          “Take it easy, Champ. Why don’t you sit this next one out, stop talking for a while. “

        • Why not? The Yankees as an organization look like FOOLS.

          The only people who think the Yankees look like fools for the way the CC negotiations are going down are the same clan of idiot slackjawed troglodyte reporters and journalists who constantly bash every single action or inaction of the club and spout off ridiculously horrid ideas (like let’s move Joba to the pen) like your boy Francesa.

          The people calling the Yankees fools are STUPID FUCKING IDIOTS WHO NEVER GET ANYTHING RIGHT. That alone should tell you that the Yankees probably aren’t fools.

          • MaddMatt says:

            Why? Give me a solid reason why…

            • Give you a solid reason why what?

              Why the Yankees don’t look like fools? Or why Francesa, Russo, Sherman, Lupica, King, etc. etc. are dumbasses?

            • jsbrendog says:

              there are hundreds that have been posted here you have read though and even referenced, but you choose to not like them.

              randy johnson, curt shilling, josh beckett, david cone, john smoltz, these guys win championships in the playoffs. youre better off with them and a craigcouncsell and a jayson werth or a scott brosius becauise in the playoffs PITCHING WINS..

              cc is more valuable, he is not “making fools of the yankees” and i will vomit from my eyes next yr just like i am this yr when the big free agent doesnt sign til fucking kanuary LIK THEY DO EVERY FUCKING GODDAMN FUCKING YEAR!!!

              cc wants to play out west. yes. his family is there hsi whole life is there. have you ever had to move your whole life and family from one coast to another in the prime of your life? you know what afucking hard decision that is? money aint shit cause hes a millionaire with 120 mil and a ucking millionaire with 175 mill.

              everyone shut the fuck up and get over yourselves and STOP LISTENING TO TALK RADIO

              ps. he has an agent. players usually listen to their agents. this “he doesnt wanna play fior us” is the stupidest shit ever. it is his agent whispering in his ear about money and location and cc going, ok, but i read their offer might not be there or i think i can do it, and his agent saying, hold out a little longer, wait for tx to sign, the offers will come..

              GAAAAHHH BRENDOG SMASHSMASHSMASH

          • Joseph P. says:

            I think this officially marks the first use of the word “troglodyte” on RAB. We should make an effort to use it more.

      • KP says:

        Pretty Sure Tex is statistically one of the best plalyers in baseball. CC is good, but does not play every day nor does he get us the RBI’s we failed to hit last year.

        • steve (different one) says:

          but “statistically” CC Sabathia is more valuable than Teixeira.

          pick a statistic.

          VORP?

          Sabathia was the 11th most valuable pitcher in baseball if we JUST TAKE HIS TIME IN MILWAUKEE.

          in other words, Sabathia racked up more value in half a season than Mike Mussina or Brandon Webb did in a full season.

          Sabathia was worth about 7.5 wins over a replacement pitcher last year.

          Teixeira was worth about 6.5 wins.

          both are great players.

          but for the last few years, CC has been more valuable. and he projects to be more valuable next year.

          • Mike Pop says:

            Steve call up Francesca, get at him son

            • jsbrendog says:

              it wont matter francesca will hang up on him the second he has useful factual analysis or information

              assc lown that guy

            • steve (different one) says:

              if i called up Francessa and said the word VORP he would hang up in about 2 seconds.

              i don’t think you can go wrong with Sabathia or Teixeira. i don’t. but this: “For the love of God and all things Holy why are we choosing CC over Tex?” is silly.

              Sabathia is AWESOME, and i think the fact that he has made everyone wait so long is making people forget that.

              if he signs, it will be an amazing day in Yankee history. they will have a signed a 28 year old LHed #1 starter who has been the best pitcher in baseball for the last 2 years.

              how could that be bad?

  23. steve (different one) says:

    Cano is a better player than Young, he is 6 years younger than Young, and he is owed about $50M less than Young.

    and you want to throw Hughes in as well?

    if the Yankees made that trade i would seriously become a Marlins fan.

  24. Adam says:

    People really want Michael Young and Derek Jeter in the same infield? Both are terrible defensively and declining offensively. A match made in heaven?

  25. 7 Angels says:

    Open letter to Brian Cashman.

    Dear Brian, time to tell CC bye, bye. He is making a complete fool out of you, and making the NYY look rediculous. He doesn’t want to pitch for the Yankees, get over it. Go after Tex, Sheets and AJ. LOwe is a red sux at heart, so lt him go back to beanville. Pride has to start at the top and you don’t have that Yankee Pride. So grow a pair and tell CC to stuff it.

  26. [...] Joe noted a short while ago, no one knows much of anything in Las Vegas. For Exhibit A, let’s take a look at yet another Jake Peavy [...]

  27. [...] He was very impressed with Ben Sheets after meeting him yesterday. I suppose he’d have to be, considering the Yankees plan to offer him between $26 and $30 million. [...]

  28. [...] Signing CC could mean that the Yanks are out on Mark Teixeira. I wouldn’t believe that at all. If we’ve learned anything from these Winter Meetings, it’s that no one’s sure of anything. [...]

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