Olney: CC, Burnett good fits for Yanks

The non-tendered Ty Wigginton
Yanks shedding salary

One of the implications of my post on fan sports coverage is that I’m not too enamored with most national personalities. So it was refreshing to see Buster Olney’s article on ESPN.com this morning (the relevant part is free). I was just going to set this as an aside, but there are some relevant passages I’d like to quote. A lot of it you read on RAB last week.

So the Yankees, in the end, were patient and got Sabathia, and the pundits who are saying that the team has blown up its plan for player development are simply not paying attention. In fact, the signings of Sabathia and A.J. Burnett are absolutely in keeping with the refocus on the farm system.

Because the Yankees waited to pursue Sabathia, rather than deal for Santana, they still have Hughes and Ian Kennedy and Austin Jackson and all the players mentioned in the Santana talks, and as the pitching talent pool has increased at the major league level, there is now more time for those youngsters to develop. It’s actually been more than a decade since the Yankees have had as much minor league talent stacked up as they do now.

Yes, they will sacrifice draft picks, in landing Sabathia and Burnett. But keep in mind that the Yankees will have picks in the first and second round of the draft in 2009 because of players unsigned in 2008; it’s not as if they are being shut down.

Olney goes on to list the Yankees projected rotation, noting how it is considerably younger than that of past teams. Except last year, of course. This one, though seems a bit more balanced overall.

[TABLE=6]

So here’s what the Yankees have done so far this off-season:

1. Added the two top pitchers on the free agent market.
2. Retained all of their relevant prospects.
3. Kept payroll at worst to the 2008 level, probably shaving a bit.

Sounds like a good deal to me.

The non-tendered Ty Wigginton
Yanks shedding salary
  • Paulie

    Does anyone where the payroll is at now. 180 million?

    • A.D.

      Yanks were at 210, subtract about 80, puts at 130 +23+16.5+5.3 gives us 174.8

      • A.D.

        Actually if you go on Cots and sum up all the contracts on the book (making a 390K or so assumption for those 40 man guys who don’t have contract figures on record) I get 166.1 M for current Yankees. If you add 5M for the Big G buyout we get 171.1

        • radnom

          + 12 for Pettite
          + 8 for Cameron (assume the Brewers eat a little salary)
          and you’re sitting at 191.1.

          Then factor in arbitration raises.
          They really couldn’t sign anyone else without raising payroll over last year.

          • Formy

            Is the $12MM for Andy just an educated guess or has this been posted somewhere? I think that Ca$hmoney should up his offer for Andy because even for $12MM Andy would be a great fit. Last year his BAPIP was ridiculous and his K/9 was solid. I would love to see Andy back for another year.

          • veetz240

            its around those ranges….

    • Steve S

      MLB Trade Rumors had it at $140M after the offseason. The way I see it, assuming no deferred money:

      – CC- $23M
      – AJ- $16.5M
      – Swisher- ~$6M (Swisher makes around $7.5M I think but you can subtract around $1.5- $2M for Betemit.
      -Marte- $4M (he made ~$2M last year so Im not sure if Tim counted him in at that or as a potential free agent given the option).

      Thats around $49M, so they are right around $190. And I am also unsure if Tim counted the $5M buyout for Giambi.

      • Steve S

        AD had it right on Swisher- $5.3 for next year which shaves it down a touch.

  • Jake H

    It will be interesting to see how things go for the pitchers this season. If Andy P comes back that will help too. Andy hasn’t missed a start for a few years. It gives Hughes and Kennedy time to continue to develop. That pushes Joba to the 5th spot to limit his innings. It also gives the Yanks flexibility if they get to October.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Ben K.

      If by “a few years” you really mean “since the last week of the season,” then I’m right there with you.

      • Yankee1010

        But he would have made it if the Yanks weren’t already eliminated.

        • A.D.

          Yanks technically weren’t eliminated until the Thursday right before the last Sox series

          • Yankee1010

            Yes, and Andy would have started in Fenway if the Yanks were still in it.

      • Murph1010

        The man has made 33 starts or more 4 years in a row, stop nitpicking ben

  • A.D.

    Damn, when Pavano and Jaret Wright are the “youth” of the rotation thats not good.

  • Ivan

    We should send this artice to Mike Lupica……..Nah.

    • pat

      We should send this artice anthrax to Mike Lupica……..Nah. YES

  • dave

    Yeah, finally a good article by a national media personality (where good = agrees with the poster and praises the yankees).

    Got ya.

    • gxpanos

      Oh, seriously?

      No honest person could say the national media has been fair in evaluating the Yankee offseason thus far.

    • pat

      sarcasm?

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

      Or, you know, someone who actually points out that the Yankees surrendered no prospects in signing CC and A.J. and haven’t by any measure abandoned the youth movement.

  • Alan

    You really can’t go wrong adding the two best pitchers in the free agent pool. Sure, I’m not the biggest AJ Burnett fan but its only money. This lets IPK stay in the minors to further develop his command of the strike zone, and takes some pressure off of Phil to perform.

    Ben/Mike, where do you see Phil this season? There’s seemingly no room for him in the ML rotation if they bring back Andy, but will sitting in the minors do anything for him developmentally? Seems like he’s stuck between a rock and a hard place, barring any major injuries.

  • Steve S

    Burnett is still a bad contract to give. He is the better alternative over Lowe at similar money but that is a bad contract for someone like that.

    • Ryan S.

      The Yankees probably would’ve gone after him no matter what, but Tyler Kepner was saying the players really rallied to get the guy. He did well against us and against Boston. Keith Law says good stuff about him overall (he does acknowledge the inherent risk factor as well to be fair), but if KLaw is cool with him, than that does a lot to assuage my concerns.

      • Reggie C.

        On those days that Burnett takes the mound, I’m absolutely confident in him throwing a solid to good game and not getting out-pitched by the other guy.

        Lets just hope he takes the mound 30 times a year.

        • Ryan S.

          At least we have the organizational depth to give Burnett a day off or a brief stint on the DL if need be. I have absolutely no problem seeing Phil Hughes or Ian Kennedy make some cameos this year before September. As long as Burnett is good to go in October, and he contributes enough in the regular season to help us get there, I am happy with him.

      • Steve S

        Well I hope the players desires really didnt play a role. of course they wanted him, he shuts the Yankees down. Posada and Damon also said that Job should be in the bullpen, Im hapy they didnt listen then. And I read Keith Law, he silenced the Pavano comparisons which arent fair, he said he has good stuff, he also said that signing to him to more than one year was a risk because the guy doesnt like to take the ball unless its 100%. I have no problem with AJ the player but I cant understand how the market allowed him to get five years at that salary, which I understand the Yankees were actually bidding against another team. And people do have a point that they might have been better served committing that money to TExeira. I dont think Texiera was a necessity so I can live with this. But its a bad contract, no matter how you look at it.

        • justin

          According to this years market the Yankees actually paid him exactly what he was worth. It’s all on fangraphs, he’s a 3 WAR player and that’s worth roughly 16 million dollars.

          • Steve S

            And thats based on last years performance not on his aggregate performance over the course of his career. Look AJ is a good pitcher and if healthy hell do a nice job, I just dont know how you can realistically expect him to stay healthy and over the course of five years its a disaster. And I didnt say the Yankees overpaid, I just said I cant believe the market led him to $16.5M, with his past and even considering his performance this past year.

  • Ryan S.

    While I do like the way our team is shaping up this year, I also like how we’re poised for the future as well. In 2010 we’re shedding even more payroll and we will continue to bring up prospects like Austin Jackson (who should conveniently be able to replace one of the guys coming off the books at that time).

    Its a very interesting times to be a Yankee fan.

  • Chip

    So 2009

    CC (28)
    Wang(29)
    Pettite(37)
    Joba(23)
    AJ(32)

    2010
    CC(29)
    Wang(30)
    Joba(24)
    AJ(33)
    Hughes(24)

    2011
    CC(29)
    Wang(31)
    Joba(25)
    AJ(33)
    Hughes(25)

    2012
    Joba(26)
    AJ(34)
    Hughes(26)
    Felix Hernandez?(26)
    Andrew Brackman?(26)

    None of those rotations after this year have anybody over 34 and almost everybody is in ther twenties. Looks pretty damn good to me!

    • Ryan S.

      Well in 2009 it’ll almost assuredly be

      CC
      Wang
      AJ
      Pettitte
      Joba

      • Chip

        Which are the same five names I put down?

        • Ryan S.

          I thought you were also giving the order in which you started them, my bad.

          • Chip

            O yeah, I got it now. In that case, Felix would be my number one in 2012 :) And that order doesn’t look too bad anyway considering how AJ will be hurt and Joba has an innings limit. I mean, that’s realistic

            • Ryan S.

              By 2012 I would really hope that Joba is #1 and Phil Hughes is #1A. That’s a bit idealistic but I have high hopes for the both of those guys.

    • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

      Just a minor correction… AJ will be 34 in 2011 and 35 in 2012.

      • Chip

        Hahaha, I just saw that

        • Chip

          I screwed up CC’s age in 2011 too, I suck at this. I guess this why they don’t hire me to write full-time

          • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

            It doesn’t change the point of your post, not like you said someone is 27 when they’re 37.

            But yeah, you do suck. ;-)

    • Chip

      Well I obviously screwed up AJ’s age is 2011 and 2012 but the point is the same

  • Reggie C.

    We shouldn’t get giddy over the possibility of CC actually exercising that opt-out clause in 3 years.

    I’m sure his longing to play in Cali will return then, but hopefully its abated till then. We need 3 good to great years from CC if we’re going to win a WS in that time frame. CC can’t be second-guessing himself b/c it could affect his performance.

    • Ryan S.

      There are a couple things that make me think CC stays with us all 7 years:

      1. Even if CC performs at career-average levels (let’s say 3.60 ERA, 215 IP type seasons), will this guy get Yankee money when he has the opportunity? Its something like 4 year / $25,000,000. Even if the economy improves, that’s a hefty some to top for a by then 31 or 32 year old pitcher of his body type.

      2. CC seems to want stability and a good life for his family as much as anything else. If he genuinely likes New York, and if he begins to get rooted here, he probably will have no impetus to put his family (unless a California team seems like a major suitor).

      With a King Felix as a free agent and some of our own prospects bound to emerge, we may not be in that bad of shape even if he does opt out. We’re definitely getting the best years he’s got left in him, that’s almost guaranteed.

      • Reggie C.

        Your rotation conspicuously omits Wang’s name after 2011.

        Do you not expect the Yanks to extend Wang after 2011. Another + 15 win season guarantees Wang an offer of extension that he likely won’t turn down. If there’s argument over Wang is an ace, there’s NO argument that Wang is an ideal #2/#3.

        So I expect the 2012 rotation not to look much different than this assuming CC stays (you make good points on CC):
        CC
        Joba
        Wang
        Burnett
        Hughes

        and should CC leave, i think the Yanks stay internal with either Betances or Brackman.

        • Ryan S.

          Brackman could ever be pitching for us before CC has the chance to think about his opt out clause. Anyway, by the time 2012 kicks in, who knows what type of pitcher is CC going to be? My guess is he’ll start to fade about the same time Joba and Hughes start to really shine.

          Wang should absolutely be kept for a long long time; barring any type of other freak base running injury Wang should be a healthy and consistent groundball pitcher even when his fastball starts to get weaker. The Yankees take care of their own when they produce, and I see the Wanger getting a long term contract after 2009 barring any set backs.

          Dellin Betances is one of the prospects I am most excited about. This guy has no ceiling. Because he’s a young prospect you have to keep your expectations moderate but seriously, he should be a beast.

          • Mike Pop

            Is it a stretch to say that in a year or two both Dellin and Brackman could be among the top 10 pitching prospects in the game ?

            • pat

              hell no it wont be a stretch.

              • Chip

                I left Wang off in 2012 because that’s the season he hits free agency IF they don’t extend him. You never know what’s going to happen before then, it was just a thought. Hell, Wilkins De La Rosa might be the world’s greatest pitcher by then

              • Mike Pop

                Good…good…good (twittling my fingers sitting in a dark chair)

  • joey

    Joe I know what you mean not too enamored with most national personalities. Everyone please checkout this article by kenro

    http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8938060/Yanks-shedding-salaries-to-go-after-more-players

    Was marquez traded for nady and marte??????or was he traded for swisher??????
    We all know that!

  • http://baseballbeat.wordpress.com/ Baseball Beat

    First positive article I read about the Yankee’s acquisitions.

    • Greg G.

      I don’t have the link handy, but Keith Law has some nice things to day about the AJ pickup on ESPN.com. It’s a nice, balanced take on the risk-reward aspect of the deal.

    • steve (different one)

      fangraphs loves it.

  • Balls Deep

    Joba can’t pitch the # of innings for a full time starter… Need Lowe or Sheets… then Joba/Hughes/Kennedy do spot starts. Joba Rules so he won’t get his ass hurt. He can be a franchise pitcher.

    • A.D.

      Basically Joba can pitch ~150 innings next year… which means if the yanks skip a few of his starts early when they off days and then not let him go to deep in some games it will work out

    • Ryan S.

      Joba has an inning limit of about 150, so if you’re a little creative you can use him as your 5th starter. Hughes/Kennedy will be our #6 and #7 starters, and I’m guessing Aceves is the long middle reliever.

    • Mike Pop

      NO we dont need Lowe or Sheets. Lowe will demand too many years and too much $.. We need a little bit of flexibility. Sheets is not a good idea anymore since you have AJ on the staff.. Good chance both can go down and we could be in trouble. Andy is a good idea on a 1 year deal to eat innings. Then IF AJ or any other starter goes down you have Hughes and Aceves to go there. Then when Joba is done because of innings you use the other one to make starts. Lowe or Sheets at this point is just not a good idea.

      Get Manny and try to bring back Pettitte.. Pettitte not coming back could end up being okay if Hughes blossoms but is it a risk worth taking?

    • Bruno

      Andy Pettite says hello.

    • steve (different one)

      Joba can’t pitch the # of innings for a full time starter… Need Lowe or Sheets…

      do you have a giant mallet that you use to swat flies?

      • Sweet Dick Willie

        do you have a giant mallet that you use to swat flies?

        To quote General Tom Kelly, when asked basically the same question:

        “I find a sledge hammer a marvelously effective way to kill a fly.”

    • JD

      Kennedy?? Hahahaha you will not see him pitch for the Yankees at all in 2009 unless everyone in the rotation goes down. But he’ll be traded before that!

      • Sweet Dick Willie

        Why the IPK hate? If you want to go with youth, you have to have patience while they develop.

        Do you think the Twins regret giving up on Garza so soon?

  • Rich M

    Jorge Posada is listed on the roster for Gigantes de Carolina as an outfielder in the Puerto Rican winter league.

    http://www.mlb.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?sid=l133&t=t_ros&cid=687

    • Mike Pop

      Is this legal ?

  • This Year

    Rosenthal has a similar article on FoxSports.com. Those two are the only ones worth reading on the national sites. Verducci, whom I use to like, had exactly the opposite take– like many of the columnists in NY– namely, that Yankees had abandoned their approach from last year. This is the approach of last year. God, most of them are so dumb.

  • Ivan

    Lets say the yanks do not add anybody on offense, and right now looking at that lineup I still feel we have enough offense to win. TB offense wasn’t great either and went to the WS cuz of pitching something the yanks now have at their disposal.

    I rank the offense in the AL East like this:

    Bos
    NY
    TB
    Bal
    Tor

    Bos has the better offense no doubt especially if they potentially add Tex, but NY and TB are rather even and can go either way no?

    • Mike Pop

      I dont know if you are taking Baltimores offense serious enough.. They got a solid lineup

      • Ivan

        The problem with Bal is that they had guys who had great years out of nowhere. Huff had a sick year that I don’t know he repeats again, Melvin Mora was hitting like near .400 in RISP, Luke Scott had like a very good season. Now Roberts is a very good player and Wieters coming up in 09 would help no doubt and they hit a very good park in CY. Plus, I think they were like second in offense in the AL.

        Nevertheless, compare to the Bos, TB, and NY, I don’t think their better at least player by player.

        • Ryan S.

          Their pitching staff also had an overall ERA of 5.13 last year.

          • Mike Pop

            Well the pitching staff was not the question. But ya some of their players had wild years but if those guys put up solid or regular years and like you said Wieters coming up. He replaces Hernandez which is probably a dramatic upgrade and then you have to think Adam Jones will improve. I agree player by player but their offense could be just as good as ours right now if not better.

  • ortforshort

    Not good enough for me. The everyday lineup needs lots of work. The Yankees lost two big sticks in the middle of their lineup – Abreu and Giambi – and haven’t replaced them. Granted, Abreu and Giambi aren’t what they were in their primes, but they were still solid contributors. All they’ve added was Swisher, a .244 lifetime hitter, who will frustrate the crap out of Yankee fans because he can’t hit. Center field also needs to be addressed. The Yankee pitching staff is now on a par with Boston’s and Tampa’s, but their lineups are way better than New York’s. Plus Tampa has added a good hitting prospect in Joyce and is looking to add a veteran bat. If Boston lands Teixeira, who the Yankees should be persuing at all costs, then there’s no way the Yankees can compete with them this year. My prediction is that if Boston lands Teixeira, the Yankees will spend a lot of money getting that human piece of dreck, Manny Ramirez. The thought is revolting to me and probably a lot of other Yankee fans who are also baseball fans.

    • Ryan S.

      As much as I would love to see Tex player for us, its hard for me to imagine us beating out the competition on this one.

    • Ivan

      Swisher career OBP is .354 which is a 100+ better than his actual BA. Giambi hit .247 this season so the BA arguement holds little weight.

      Second, How is TB offense that much better than the Yanks?

      C: Posada>Navaro
      1B: Pena>Swisher(but Swisher and Pena are similar offensively)
      2B: Cano>Iwamura
      SS: Jeter>Bartlett
      3B: A-Rod>Longoria

      So other than 1st base, Yanks have them beat.

      OF: DamonAny yankee outfielder
      OF: Nady>better than Joyce

      So Yanks Offense seems better than TB to me.

      • Mike Pop

        Ya we should have a better O then TB.. Milton could make them better for the 20 or 30 games he plays in

      • Alan

        A-Rod/Longoria is alot closer than we’d like to think. That kid is the next big hitter.

        • Mike Pop

          Come on man thats bullshit. Def not fair to say

          • Bruno

            I think it’s not as much BS as you’d like it to be Mike. If we do a “player A vs player B” for ’09 I think it’ll be close to equal, plus Evan plays much better D.

            Iwamura
            Upton
            Crawford
            Longoria
            Pena
            DH
            Navarro
            Joyce
            Bartlett

            Is VERY formidable, especially because Longoria ALMOST = A-Rod.

            I don’t like to put it this way, but when fantasy baseball rolls around next year, who do you think will be the more productive hitter? Yes, I realize A-Rod gets the nod, but it is a tough decision, no?

          • Reggie C.

            Longoria will do alot of damage in 600 at-bats. He’s not going to slug .580 like Arod likely will, but Longoria is a good bet to match his .540 slugging. There’s a difference there, but its not much of an advantage, and Longoria is a fine offensive force for that ballclub.

            Upton is the guy to watch next season. He’s another talent that could end up slugging ABOVE .500 … we all saw that power in the postseason.

        • Ivan

          I love Longoria but A-Rod beats him quite easliy. A-Rod on a injury plagued and not his usual self still hit .302/.392/.573 with a 150 OPS+. Longoria at his peak could only put up #’s like that. A-Rod does that on avg.

          • Alan

            Sure A-Rod beats him now. But, Longoria is only 23 years old. He’s going to be an offensive force for years to come and he’s a plus defensively. All I’m saying is that the A-Rod/Longoria argument is not as open and shut as alot of people seem to think.

            • K.B.D.

              “All I’m saying is that the A-Rod/Longoria argument is not as open and shut as alot of people seem to think.”

              For right now it is. A-Rod is cleary, far and away better than Evan Longoria. In a couple of years, maybe there can be a discussion, but not as of right now.

              However, if you’re asking me which I would pick to base a franchise on right now, of course I’d pick Longoria. That doesn’t necessarily mean hes a better player at this very moment.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

      This is the last time I will respond to anyone who cites Swisher’s batting average and nothing more. It’s fucking stupid. Not everyone has to hit for average.

      • Manimal

        Agreed.

      • Bruno

        3rd

        • justin

          4th

  • Bruno

    I REALLY hope Cash isn’t relying on Matsui being our DH for 125-150 games. Adam Dunn makes SO much sense* it’s giving me a headache that there hasn’t been any “news” of the Yanks being interested. Obviously I’d rather have Tex but that doesn’t seem to be in the works. I also hope Cash & co. let Gardner play Cf and pull a “Bubba Crosby” on him.

    *Durable left-handed slugger in his prime at Yankee Stadium hitting behind A-Rod, likely contract situation, reports that he wants to play for a contender, our lack of OF’s and legit power all around beyond ’09.

    DH/LF-Damon
    SS-Jeter
    3B-A-Rod
    LF/DH-Dunn
    RF-Nady
    1B-Swisher
    2B-Cano
    C-Posada
    CF-Gardner

    Matsui
    Melky
    Ransom
    Molina

    • Manimal

      Lack of OF’s? Try 6.

      • Bruno

        Beyond ’09 = Melky, Gardner, Nady?, A-Jax?

        • Manimal

          Ajax is a given, Gardner depends on how he does this year. Right field is up for grabs and after nady we will probably go shopping for a new outfielder then.

          • Bruno

            Why not lock up Dunn now AND go shopping then. Dunn, A-Jax, ?

            • Ryan S.

              I’d take Melky out of the discussion, looks like he is about to be a brewer. We’re only on the hook for Nady for ’08, so that gives us flexibility. I’m sure there are plenty of ways we can lock up Dunn now and make sure we get the most out of the our roster. Matsui is the only guy who is will get marginalized … it’d be very hard to trade him and his contract at this time.

    • steve (different one)

      I REALLY hope Cash isn’t relying on Matsui being our DH for 125-150 games.

      i’m not picking on you, but after what we’ve seen this week, why do people think Cashman is done?

      everyone was so scared the Yankees wouldn’t spend money this year, but it doesn’t seem like that is case.

      no one knows what else they are up to.

      they are being aggressive as hell so far.

      • Bruno

        I don’t think he’s done. I’m just voicing my opinion. I agree that he’s been very aggressive, and I like it. I hope he keeps it up, that’s all I’m saying.

        For what it’s worth, while I would’ve perferred to get Sheets for 2-3 years instead of Burnett for 5, I understand Cash willing to lock someone up for 5yrs with CC being able to leave after 3. Even if Burnett ends up us a 160-175in lg.avg the last couple of years, it’ll be good to have that guy in there with the kids + Joba, Hughes?.

  • Brooklyn Ed

    CC takes physical on Tuesday:

    The plan is for CC Sabathia to arrive in town tomorrow night, take a physical Tuesday and possibly be introduced as the Yankees $161 million savior by Wednesday.

    Yes, can’t wait for Wed.

    The Brewers asking too much for Cameron:

    Because the Yankees have told the Brewers they cannot have any of pitchers on their 40-man roster, Igawa is the best the Brewers can do.

    Brewers asked for Phil Coke, Jose Veras and Mark Melancon and quickly were told no.

    Doug Melvin must really hate us. Coke and Melancon isn’t worth a Cameron.

    source: http://www.nypost.com/seven/12142008/sports/yankees/cc_arrives_tomorrow_144123.htm

    • Manimal

      hahahahhaha thats a joke. 3 young talented relievers for a old Outfielder with 1 year left?

      • Bruno

        I hope Melvin didn’t ask for all 3. Maybe he asked for any of them in a 2-for-1 with Melky and was told “no” 3 times. 2-1 I MIGHT do Melky & Veras but no more.

        • Reggie C.

          +1

          If the Brewers want young relievers they should just look to sign Britton. I guess i could part with Veras….but i’d rather the Yanks look to trade Whelan, Cox. We should just pick up the whole Cameron salary.

      • Brooklyn Ed

        I say sign Sheets, give Melvin the FU which really will piss him off more. lol

    • K.B.D.

      I want some of what Melvin is smoking.

    • Reggie C.

      HOLD UP.

      is that what the brewers are asking in return?? Did they really ask for Melancon and Coke?? that’s freaking ridiculous. if they want a reliever give them JB Cox or Whelan.

      • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

        I’m fairly certain that he wanted one of those three in addition to Melky for Cameron.

        Considering I wouldn’t trade Melancon straight up for Cameron, Melvin can go screw.

      • Brooklyn Ed

        Veras would be fine but Coke and Melancon? hell no.

      • Steve H

        When you are negotiating anything, don’t you always ask for more than you expect to get? No trade is ever made on the first pass I’m sure. What’s he supposed to do, say please let me take Igawa off your hands?

        • K.B.D.

          It’s not like he’s trying to milk everything he can out of dealing a superstar, which one can hardly be blamed for. This is basically a salary dump by the Brewers though and they’re asking for a what amounts to a useful major league piece in return for us taking somebody, who they don’t want anyways, off of their hands.

          • Steve H

            But it’s still a negotiation. When you go in for a job interview and you are looking to make 50k, do you ask for 50k? No. You ask for more, and hope they counter with 50k. A GM’s job is to negotiate, regardless of the scope of the deal, whether it’s a salary dump or trading a superstar, or signing a free agent or draft pick. You don’t just show up and show your hand. The Yankees offered CC 6/140 knowing they’d go longer and for more money. Boras last year floated getting Andruw Jones a 7 year/100+ million dollar deal. He knew he wasn’t getting it, and when he got 2/36, it was a great job by Boras.

            • K.B.D.

              I disagree. I believe a GM’s job is to make his team better, or at least put them in a situation where they can get better faster than they could before. If that doesn’t happen because he’s busy asking for way more than he should be in trades and drives away trading partners, he’s failing.

              I think I just disagree fundamentally with all situations being the same. I believe that a salary dump is what it is and you should be (relatively) thankful somebody is taking on your burden, get the deal done and move on. Don’t risk messing up the deal by asking for a legit prospect. If they’re stuck with Cameron at the end of the year, how great is that negotiating they did?

              • Steve H

                Cash isn’t going to say, oh, you asked for too much, now I’m not interested in making my team better. It’s both GM’s jobs to make their team better, so Cash isn’t going to walk away because Melvin asks for too much. Cash will say, no, I’m not giving those guys up, here’s what I’ll offer. They both want the trade to happen, it probably will happen. Melvin, in trying to make his team better, is trying to get the best package possible.

                • K.B.D.

                  People have walked away from deals before. Like, say the Yankees did with Johan last year?

              • Steve H

                And remember, they picked up this $10 million option, so if they wanted to just dump his salary, they wouldn’t have picked up his option. Anything they get in return for Cameron is more than they had before.

    • Ryan S.

      We’re just giving up Igawa and Melky, and eating some of Igawa’s contract. In return we’ll get a 1 year rental of Mike Cameron at $10,000,000. That cost is somewhat offset by unloading Igawa and some of his salary onto the Brewers, and also slightly by not paying Melky through his arb. years.

      • Bruno

        I’m fine with Melky & Igawa. Let Gardner FORCE his way in. Even off the bench I’m sure he’ll be a force stealing bases, playing the OF late in games.

        • Ryan S.

          Gardner is definitely one of the most interesting players to look out for next year. I’m definitely rooting for him to start seeing playing time every day. A major speed threat would do a lot for this team.

    • Ivan

      Agreed. I trade Veras for Cameron though.

  • gxpanos

    Sorry about the threadjack, but anyone watching this disgraceful Jets game? I almost hope they miss the playoffs so I’ll be able to switch to Yankee-monitoring full-time a week earlier, because there’s no way they win a playoff game.

  • Ryan S.

    Found this link on MLB trade rumors:

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/12142008/sports/yankees/cc_arrives_tomorrow_144123.htm

    The focus is on CC but he mentions that Kei Igawa is going to be the pitching “prospect” included in the Cabrera-Cameron trade, its just a made of how much of Igawa’s 12 million we end up eating.

    Its looking more and more like Mike Cameron is our starting day center fielder.

  • E-ROC

    Anybody watching the Jets? I hope you aren’t. Mike is rolling over in his grave, lol.

    • pat

      their tackling is teh sux

  • Mike Pop

    Holy Shit.. Great Game Jets

    • Ryan S.

      Defense had to redeem itself.

      • pat

        how about that for redemption damn 2 forced turnovers in 2 plays

  • pat

    oh my god jp loseman is so unbeleivably bad

    • Mike Pop

      Great arm with so much potential just can never put it together.

  • gxpanos

    YES! Get high after the game, Shaun!

    • Mike Pop

      hes high now

  • dkidd

    J-E-T-S!!!

    • VO

      YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT!

  • dkidd

    spark it up!

  • Manimal

    Game over.

  • dkidd

    is there a worse city than buffalo be a sports fan?

    • Ryan S.

      Seattle.

  • dkidd

    i’ll extend that. to be a human being?

    • TheLastClown

      Kinshasa?

      • dkidd

        weather’s worse in buffalo

        • Chip

          Minot, ND

          There’s 2 ft of snow on the ground, all the interstates are closed and it’s -53F wind chill. There’s no competition (good thing we don’t have a sports team)

          • dkidd

            you win. why not minot? that’s why not

            • Chip

              Freezin’s the reason

  • Mike Pop

    Heh Defense was all over the place this game

  • pat

    jeff fischer…?

    • Mike Pop

      They are already in so he doesnt care that much

  • ortforshort

    Not mentioning Swisher’s batting average here. Average RBI the last four years: 79 (sucks for a first baseman in the middle of your lineup); Average number of strikeouts per year: 133 – (nice rally killer); average number of walks per year: 84 (who wants an RBI slot that walks anyway – and its not that many?); Average number of doubles per year: 28 (I’d prefer somebody who can drive the ball more consistently as an RBI man). Bottom Line – can’t hit -especially at a position where you need a big power guy. He’s a minus head to head with most first basemen the Yankees will be playing – and he’s not on the same planet as Teixeira who, for some insane reason, Cashman must think he is a reasonable substitue for.

    • K.B.D.

      Swishers BABIP in 2008: .245

      He was one of the most unlucky hitters this last year and a couple of your comments tie back to his average. If his average is higher than it was this past year (which all indications are that it should be) then his RBI total will rise, his number of 2Bs will rise.

      Who wants an RBI slot that walks anyways? I do. Because it will over the course of a season result in more runs scored. And as for your comment about needing a big power guy at 1B, he does, you know, average 28 HRs a season.

      I like how you declare that he can’t hit when he has a career OPS+ of 112. I guess that means that a lot of people in the MLB really can’t hit considering he’s solidly better than average.

    • Greg G.

      …and he’s not on the same planet as Teixeira who, for some insane reason, Cashman must think he is a reasonable substitue for.

      And you conclude this how, exactly? I would argue that Cashman does NOT think Swisher is a substitute for Teixeira, given that he didn’t just sign Swisher a 8 year/$160 million contract.

    • Steve H

      Outs are rally killers. Any kind. Getting on base does not kill rallies. Nick Swisher gets on base more often than the average major leaguer. Would you like Juan Pierre, who never strikes out? Does he not kill rallies because of his low strikeout totals? This rally killing strikeout nonsense is ridiculous. Nick Swisher makes less outs than the average major leaguer, hence, Nick Swisher is less likely to kill a rally than the average major leaguer. Would it make a difference for you if he popped out to 2nd? Or better yet, grounded into a double play?

  • Balls Deep

    Jets are in T-R-O-U-B-L-E… if they don’t fix that defense, Ronnie Brown will take Division on the last Sunday.

    Nick Swisher better not be in the starting lineup at 1B on Opening Day… CF only. Or he’s our bat off bench, power utility guy. Ransome will handle the rest; Girardi won’t let him go.

    Hank said he’s gonna spend… he will not go without getting Tex or Manny.

  • J

    Quick question… are the Jets the Yanks of the NFL—-and the Giants the Mets?

    I grew up a Yanks and Dolphins fan in the SF Bay Area and am thus in the dark here!

  • Greg G.

    Just wondering what The Triumvirate (that would be Ben, Joe, and Mike) thought of another line in Buster’s article:

    The Red Sox are years ahead of the Yankees in their player development and have their pipeline of talent already flowing into the big leagues.

    Years ahead? Is that really true? (seriously, I’m asking)

    • Steve H

      Yes, about 3 years ahead. Theo got a headstart on Cash. When Cash got control in 2005 is when he started to build the farm.

  • Michael

    Looking at that ’05 rotation……….good lord! How did the Yankees win that division!?!

    • Steve H

      A-Rod