Open Thread: A theoretical expansion draft
ByWe’ll resume the Hot Stove League talk at 10 p.m. ET with a short CC Sabathia-related post. Let’s have some fun in the meantime…
Earlier this week, Chad Jennings engaged in a little bit of idle Yankee chatter. Noting that it’s been 11 years since the last expansion draft — the second-longest such stretch during baseball’s Expansion Era — Jennings wondered who among the current Yankees would be protected in a theoretical expansion draft.
He based his lists upon the 1997 rules and writes:
Here are the rules as they were in 1997: Any player with major league experience is eligible. Minor leaguers are eligible if they’re Rule 5 eligible. I’m not sure if someone like Andrew Brackman would have been eligible — he’s on the 40-man but has no major league experience and has not passed the Rule 5 threshold — but I’m going to bet he would have been eligible. Seems to always work that way with the 40-man.
Each team starts by protecting 15 players. No team can lose more than one player per round, and after each round, each team can protect three more. Any 10-5 players (10 years experience, five consecutive with the same team) have to be protected. So do players with no trade clauses.
In the end, he came up with the following list. Keep in mind that the Rule 5 eligibility protects many of the Yanks’ top prospects including Austin Jackson and Jesus Montero:
Must be protected
10-5 players or no-trade clauses
1. Mariano Rivera
2. Jorge Posada
3. Derek Jeter
4. Alex Rodriguez
5. Hideki Matsui
Young and vital
Or maybe not vital, but too good to risk losing
6. Andrew Brackman
7. Joba Chamberlain
8. Phil Hughes
9. Ian Kennedy
10. Chien-Ming Wang
11. Robinson Cano
12. Brett Gardner
Veterans
Not 10-5 guys, but worth protecting
13. Johnny Damon
14. Xavier Nady
15. Nick Swisher
Following the first round and second round, teams can protect more players, and Jennings adds the following eight to his list:
1. David Robertson
2. Phil Coke
3. Alfredo Aceves
4. Chris Garcia
5. Alan Horne
6. Juan Miranda
7. Humberto Sanchez
8. Frank Cervelli
So here is what I pose to you for this open thread: Who would you protect in an expansion draft? In other words, who do you see are the 10-18 most important Yankees on the field right now outside of the guys with the 5-10/No-Trade protection?
Debate away, but play nice. I’m quite curious to see how fans assess the state of the franchise both for this season and in the future in light of this question.
167 Comments»
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I would think you’d trade Damon to get young, far away prospect(s) in that scenario, leaving a slot for someone younger (like Robertson) to be protected.
Mike, did you check out the AzFL top 20? Where’s AJax?
http://www.baseballamerica.com.....ts/?p=1815
Hes number 27 or something man
That was milb.com’s list of the top 50 prospects overall, not the BA AzFL Top 20.
Oops my mistake
He had a bad fall league. No biggie.
I agree with Jenning list.
However, I would probably protect Aceves or Sanchez or Garcia over Damon. I don’t know if a team would take Damon knowing he will make 13 million and only be there for 1 year. For the same reason I might not protect Nady.
sorry for the double post but:
sure everyone will love this tidbit from jayson stark….at least they have acknowledged he is alive –then again its an espn report
“There’s increasing buzz about the Yankees’ interest in Ben Sheets, possibly an indication that they’re not confident they’re going to be able to sign Burnett. As this blog noted two weeks ago, the difference between Burnett’s and Sheets’ 2008 and career numbers are smaller than you’d think”
Jayson Stark
and…Youks undies are for sale man – think of how gritty they would be. Alex’s too but they would be far too clean
Good news about Sheets. The undies stuff is TMI
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but that’s not grit.
Great news. Much rather take the short commitment with Sheets, plus he happens to be a better pitcher than Burnett is. Not by much overall, but his control is much better.
CC
Sheets
Wang
Pettitte
Joba
With Hughes and Aceves in case of injury.
Looks good to me. Not as good as it would with Peavy, but good enough to win it all next year.
BTW-I call Kay on occasion on his radio show, and we got into a Sheets/Burnett debate a few times.
After we went at it for a few minutes, and he couldn’t defend Burnett anymore, he said that “Joe Girardi is a HUGE, HUGE Ben Sheets fan.” So it appears Sheets has at least one backer in the organization, and its a good one to have.
Way yo stick it to em Steve. You rock
this is a great eotation and we can all stop )or at least I can stop) arguing for peavy
“eotation”?
WTF?
i dont even know
Whats the eatter, you don’t speak the eanguage?
]
He’s ealking about the eitching eotation!
Must be protected
10-5 players or no-trade clauses
1. Mariano Rivera
2. Jorge Posada
3. Derek Jeter
4. Alex Rodriguez
5. Hideki Matsui
To good to risk losing
6. Andrew Brackman
7. Joba Chamberlain
8. Phil Hughes
9. Ian Kennedy
10. Chien-Ming Wang
11. Robinson Cano
12. Brett Gardner
Not 10-5 guys, but worth protecting
13. Phil Coke
14. Alfredo Aceves
15. Nick Swisher
Add these guys to the list:
1. David Robertson
2. Nick Swisher
3. Chris Garcia
4. Alan Horne
5. Juan Miranda
6. Humberto Sanchez
7. Frank Cervelli
8. X-Man
I figure (like last time) if we lose anyone we could trade for them or if a guy we would like to have…trade for them, Yes?
Swisher is listed twice. Also, trading isn’t as easy as you make it sound.
Opps! sorry ’bout dat! Put Veras or Dan Giese in there (3rd list).
If trading was easy, anyone could do it. That’s why Cash makes the big $$$$$$. There were a few trades last time, I think the Yanks did one. 27/09.
you would protect gardner over nady (assuming each is under contract)?
I can see brett getting taken but not before a guy like nady who most teams would love to have
Ben agrees with that assement.
We have a greater need for a very good CF then we do for a corner OF, don’t you agree? I know the pitchers agree very much, it is the deference between a win or loss in a lot of games.
You look at teams that have stellar defence and if they have good pitching…they win a lot of games without the big power hitters. Good hitters are harder for good pitchers to shut down then power guys…just the facts guys. 27/09.
Ben agrees with that assement.
Yes, but Ben also still protected Nady. You didn’t, you protected Aceves over him.
I like Aceves as much as the next guy, but Nady is easily the superior player more worth protecting.
Ben didn’t actually put forward a list. Chad Jennings protected Nady.
I’d probably protect Nady because he would clearly be drafted if you didn’t, but that doesn’t mean I’m particularly enthused with the idea of him playing right or left field in 2009. I also wouldn’t protect Aceves over Nady.
Ben should continue talking in third person, because Ben sounds much more important, and it also makes Ben sound like Ben knows what Ben is talking about
Rickey Henderson and The Jimmy from Seinfeld approved of this comment.
(and no, for the sake of everyone, tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Unborn Fetus Regrettably Not Old Enough To Have Witnessed the Mastery of Donald Arthur Mattingly In Person will not be using the third person for comedic purposes. That’s mean.)
Sorry, my mistake.
Some times I get drawn into thinking as I have been doing for years, more like a chess player…but more outside the box, like the Pavano deal. But I digress, corner OF are easier to fined then good “D” CF, this is why I would pick the CF over Nady. 27/09.
i agree with what you said, I am just speculating on what player you would be more likely to be taken in the first round of an expansion draft. I think new teams would be more likely to take a Nady in the first round than a gardner. An expansion team would like good proven major leaguers under good contracts early so that they can at least field a competitive team and NAdy fits that bill
gardner would be in the group of players I protected for the next round, but in the first round, I would imagine an expansion team would look for a guy that they can stick into the 3rd sot in the line-up – not that they wouldnt be interested in gardner later on
What you say makes sense to me, I just value a CF more then a corner guy, that’s all. 27/09.
Is Cervelli worth protecting ?
Yes, he is the only catcher ready to back up Molina, Posada. 27/09.
I wouldn’t say he’s ready….He has how many at bats above A ball? Lets remember a catcher learning curve is in most cases longer then other position players…He could by september…but if both Posada and Molina go down with injury I doubt they turn to Cervelli, instead opting to go veteran in that spot.
Molina .237 BA, .276 OBP, .615 OPS
Cervelli 575 AB- .282 BA, .384 OBP, .772 OPS
Remember he was under very high consideration to be the back-up of Posada, or starter at AAA out of ST but, he got hurt. We have a couple lower catchers with more up side then Cervelli…but not near ready yet. 27/09.
Nice points Ranger
“Remember he was under very high consideration to be the back-up of Posada, or starter at AAA out of ST but, he got hurt.”
He played in A ball last year and got hurt early in spring training this year. He wasn’t anything special in A ball, so they weren’t going to have him completely skip AA, let alone AA and AAA.
The guy was added to the 40 man roster last year because of the Rule 5 Draft. A team like Pittsburgh could probably get away with stashing him on the bench as a backup catcher for a year then send him to the minors the following year, but otherwise, he’s not sniffing a major league 25 man roster for a while.
He signed in ’2005, no need for him to be put on the 40 man. I remember Joe G. saying a lot of good things about him and he was mentioned as Molinas’ back-up many times (a few times as Posadas’ back-up). All information I have says he is a better hitter then Molina and just about as good with his “D”. As thay say; “He is what he is going to be.” 27/09.
In the next few days Andy & CC will have to be added to the list. My as well make spots for them now.
might
Hey Peter, did you see the jersey I posted for you the other day from straightcashhomey.net?
http://straightcashhomey.net/p.....cks-dad-is
Dude, your name is completely awesome in every way, not that it wasn’t before, but it’s awesomer now.
This the same guy ?
NoMaas outdid themselves, once again.
http://www.nomaas.org/images/gammons-pedroia.jpg
In the past 2 months, they have been in rare form.
That….is…….awesome
Ya that pic is so funny
Amazing picture.
Maybe they should have a picture of Joe Morgan and K-rod too
morgan should be in a circle jerk with his cincinatti reds dynasty teams
Imagine how much gay porn they had to sift through to find a suitable pic to photoshop.
What the hell are you talking about, “photoshop”?
i am wondering how they got into pedroia’s pad
Is that what he calls it? Or did you mean “pud”?
That’s a little term we used to use while we were watching Don Mattingly back in the day. You wouldn’t understand.
Touche.
I’m just a caveman, your crazy world of computers and photography frightens me. When I see someone take a picture of me, I think “Oh no, have you captured my soul?” I don’t know any better.
But there is one thing I DO know, and that is that Don Mattingly is the greatest player in the history of baseball.
i saw this metioned B4, but something is wrong with the site today…it is hard to load the whole screen, keeps coming up w/out the comment section.
by the way, love the new format for the podcast. congrats guys – first newsday and now the winter meetings. Its great to see people doing something they obviously love successfully and I cant think of anything better than covering the yanks, except maybe playing for them but that dream died the first time I saw a curve ball
Better question, if Sabathia signs the 6/140 contract, would you protect him?
good point…could an expansion team afford that and would they be able to sign a new free agent. Hypothetically speaking, if a newly signed free agent cant be signed until June, would an expansion team be able to claim one?
I am guessing that any expansion draft would take place prior to the free agency period, but I do not remember from the last time.
If I’m them I do it, then turn around and trade him.
Bingo. Although I imagine CC’s deal with have an NTC.
What trade value would a pitcher have who is maxed out in $$?
Why would anyone want to pay twice? In $ AND talent?
Nope.
Its the nature of free agency that in order to sign someone, you have to be willing to pay them more than anyone else is willing to pay. The minute that player signs, the rest of Baseball views him as being overpaid. Unless you have a player for a few years and there is some huge salary inflation, it wouldn’t be necessary.
like buying a car
i think an expansion team would be scared off by his contract
unless it’s owned by Mark Cuban.
Dont like this one bit…from brian Sabian:
“I’ll put it this way: whatever would’ve happened with a big-ticket item, it’d have to be the right person, the right place at the right time. Years and dollars would have to be right. So draw your own conclusions. While we might have mutual interest in one person,”
I think they have their eye on one big ticket item. Avery big ticket
Considering the Barry Zito, Aaron Rowand, and Edgar Renteria acquisitions, I can only assume Brian Sabean is about to drop an 8 year, $120M offer on Oliver Perez.
Never happen. His velocity didn’t drop in the second half.
Sabean scares me becaue he is unpredictable and love to make big move and actually if you added Sabathia and a couple of cheap bats – Cantu, Giambi maybe one of the 87 corner outfielders they could actually be competitive in that division. It would arguably be the best 1-2 in baseball with lincecum – at least between them and Arizona. That division is a joke and a .500 record could win it mostly because the dodgers are so badly run
That is also his downfall
Here’s what I read from Sabean
“We’re not out there swimming with the sharks. There are too many teams with more seemingly to offer financially than where we’re at right now.”
When asked about the budget he’s recommending to owner Bill Neukom and whether a $100 million player could fit in it, Sabean said:
“We’re considering a lot of options. My job is to do whatever we can to present things to Bill and Larry (Baer). I’ll put it this way: whatever would’ve happened with a big-ticket item, it’d have to be the right person, the right place at the right time. Years and dollars would have to be right. So draw your own conclusions. While we might have mutual interest in one person, we’re not going to be involved in a boat race on huge years or AAVs. If for some reason those animals stayed out there, it would be much longer process.”
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/e.....ket-items/
Context, my friend. Context.
i thought about adding the whole quote and i understand the context thin – perhaps i was too NY Post, but the quote does say he may go after a big ticket item if was the right person and place and time.
From reading it I take that the will not go after any big free agents except if there is one that would fit in – i.e. Someone who wants to play for them and is willing to accept a hometown discount.
you do have a point though, but nonetheless he leaves the window open for Sabathia, or at least that is how I take it
how do you guys make stuff bold…not too good with the keyboard as you can probably tell by my many many spelling errors
(remove underscores)
opens bold, and closes (bold)
opens italics, and closes (italic
Anything else is also at the bottom of the comment form
whoops, RAB ate the HTML stuff
christopher,
before the thing you want to bold, type this “”
to close the tag, type “”
crap
Lol someone will have to email him it
i only fell for it b/c it looked good in the preview window.
i love lamp.
I think I was in love once, she was Brazilian, or Chinese, or something weird. I met her in the bathroom of a K-Mart and we made out for hours. Then we parted ways, never to see each other again.
what is this supposed to say?
totally agree
http://www.theonion.com/conten.....rime_spree
heh
Johnny Damon has a partial no-trade, so I would think he’d have to be protected, no? I’m going to assume he does.
Must be protected
10-5 players or no-trade clauses
1. Mariano Rivera
2. Jorge Posada
3. Derek Jeter
4. Alex Rodriguez
5. Hideki Matsui
6. Johnny Damon
The other guys I would protect:
7. CMW
8. Joba
9. Hughes
10. Cano
11. Swisher
12. Brackman
13. IPK
14. Aceves
15. Nady
Usually the expansion teams will work out trades so that a team can protect an unprotected player. So in my scenario Brett Gardner wouldn’t be protected, so the expansion team would select him, then trade him back to the Yanks for say, two players not eligible for the expansion draft.
A dispersion draft would be fun. Say the Twins and Marlins were contracted and the players under contract to those teams were then subject to a draft. I imagine Hanley would go first, then Mauer, then probably Liriano, etc. That would be cool.
“With the 30th pick, the Yankees select…Matt Treanor *boos everywhere*, catcher, Florida Marlins”
I’d draft his wife
2nd that
Is that what the kids are calling it these days?
Ask TSJC, he’s the kid around here.
Hey, I’m a fetus, not a zygote. I’ve reached viability.
Heh, in the MLBTR post of Laird may be moving. The guy who posted it made a few mistakes and all the commenters are getting at him bout it.. One guy says
“never drink and blog” heh
“Rosenthal believes the Dodgers will renew talks for Robinson Cano at the Winter Meetings, and the Yankees will again ask for Matt Kemp” that was from mlbtr, i personally have mixed emotions on this “trade proposal” because granted Kemp is a good young CF I dont think he is worth giving up a good young second basemen, although both positions are hard to come by I think second base is more important, I would hope we could throw a couple more players in this trade to help it even out a bit.
No way. CF is much more important than 2B. Ranking the positions by defensive importance:
1. SS
2. CF
3. C
4.
3B2B5.
2B3B6. RF
7. 1B
8. LF
don’t you have 2B and 3B flipped? up the middle > corners, no?
I do, my bad. The reasoning is that a 3B generally provides more offense to cover up for below avg defense.
look at Mike flaunting his powers to edit posts…
OMGosh how did he do that ?!?!!?!?!?
he’s got a $5 footlong.
Ha
I understand that your SS is typically the best glove, but I’ve always felt the most important fielder is your Catcher. He’s involved in every pitch, calls the game for the pitcher and therefore influences the game more than anyone else on the field.
The best athletes need to be at SS and CF, but the smartest baseball player should be behind the plate.
Is Kemp really a CF though ?
For the next two or three seasons he could be.
So you would do that striahgt up ?
Cano for Kemp? Yeah, I think I would.
Sign O-dog or try to talk Florida into dealing us Uggla ? Maybe even Bonificio as bad as that sounds..
Nah, we’ll just play Matsui at 2B. I hear his knees feel much better.
Well im not sure if he truely is a CF but thats what it said on espn.com also I think that unless we get teixiera I think second would be more important because then we would have a infield of Rodriguez, Jeter, ?, ? not good.
Hmm.. If trading Cano leads to Kemp AND Texieria I might be for it… But there is no replacement for 2nd.. O-Dog is not worht it
In this scenario I’d take Grudzielanek or Loretta on a one year deal. Shouldn’t be too tough a position to fill. You’re not going to find another Cano any time soon, but with extra offense elsewhere, you can find a 2b easy enough.
If a trade like this does happen what about nick punto?
Also has anyone thought of Matsui in right?
No.
And were not going to start now.
Ha. I live in Boston and listen to EEI, there are so many people who call in with “We don’t have to trade Lowell if we bring in Teixeria, we can just put Youk at SS”. There’s even been a few “Let Tek go and move Youk behind the plate”
But Youk plays every single position dont he ?
So do I.
Badly
honestly, it might be worth it for Boston to get Teixeira if it means Youkilis would play SS.
could you imagine him spazzing every time a ground ball went past him?
As much as I would like to see that.. I do not want to see Tex anywhere near Fenway unless its in a Yankee uniform
I wouldnt invest money on Youk playing short cause the next time job hits him……
Why don’t sox fans want Lowrie there
He wasn’t consistent enough offensively in his one season in the Majors. To Boston fans, that one season is enough to predict the rest of his career.
I too live outside of Boston and listen to WEEI regularly. The Sox fans have been rabid about finding a shortstop who can field and hit for power ever since Nomar’s demise began in 2003. Ever since then they’ve just complained, complained, and complained some more about the guys who have filled the position.
Cabrera and Gonzalez couldn’t bring enough offensively. Renteria couldn’t keep the ball in front of him. Lugo can’t do anything right. To Sox fans, they just simply can’t find a decent shortstop.
right fielders usually have arm’s(better arms than the left fielder) and matsui just doesn’t have an arm.
And does anyone have any information on when Josh Hamiltons contract runs out?
He’s still under team control for another four seasons.
what a bargain they got. that is a team that needs to put some money into the team now while it has an MVP making next to nothing to build around.
Its a shame that they couldnt recognize good pitching if it beat them over the head with a hammer
Yep they have traded alot of pitchers who would have helped them.. Chris Young, John Danks, Volquez.. But of course if they had Volquez they wouldnt have Hamilton
2013 without any extensions is when he will be a FA
When he’s found in a crack house with a hooker named Veronica Vavoom
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/
this is the spot I use. Not sure how acurate it is, but I have found it useful.
Just like Wikipedia
I love the prospect breakdowns and the updates on their stats.
Any way that you could do a revised prospect review on the guys in the Yankees top 10 – perhaps in the pre-season when things are slow. The expansion talk made me think of it – for all I know you have already done it for a few guys. If so let me know, but I am intrigued as to how you would view Brackman after his winterball performances as well as other players.
just a suggestion for future posts. keep up the good work guys
from Abraham:
The Associated Press is reporting that Brian Cashman will meet this weekend with CC Sabathia.
well there you go. hopefully he’ll bring some leftover turkey.
FINALLY !!
I hope he wears his platform shoes. Since its Christmas time, CC might mistake him for an Elf.
You are just the king of funny comments arent you… =/
CC’s a big boy. Just sayin ….
Na man I enjoy your posts
How do you see this meeting going?
BC-Hey CC, were willing to offer you 140, would you like to play for the Yankees?
CC-Not really.
BC-Did I say 140? I meant 150!
CC-I’m kinda hungry, is there a Micky Ds around here?
BC-WAIT! DON’T LEAVE! 170!!
CC-Are there any Taco Bells near the stadium?
BC-We’ll build one next to the bullpen.
CC-Yeah, whatever. Dude, I just want some lunch.
BC-I have a bucket of KFC in my office. Extra crispy.
CC-Deal.
nice one
There is no way CC would have leftover turkey. How can you not know this??!!!
He meant Cash would bring his leftovers to CC
A-Rod is planning to play for the Dominiacan team in the WBC
A-Rod pulling a Becky Hammon! Blasphemy! Seriously, someone will find some way to blast A-Rod for not playing for the U.S.
that someone is Pete Abe.
The Yankees should forget about CC and Take a chance with Burnett, Lowe, and Sheets. And sign Texiera with the money they save, that would give them a gold glove at first and make up for the lost production from losing abreu.
ummm. really? signing those 3 would save money how?
i think you are taking more money
No questions its more money
What ever happened to all the trade talks with Melky Cabrera in it?
2008 happened. Why trade him when his value is at his absolute lowest?
Hes a clubhouse cancer
good point but teams still think of him highly
Yeah, they think he’s one of the best young 5th outfielders in the game.
He got too good and the Yankees decided that he was untouchable
2008 happened.
Damn Rutgers is handing it to Louisville
(remove underscores)test(bold)
Beneath the comment box is some gray text starting with “you may use…”
To make something bold but a b in <> and to close the tag, do /b in <>.
http://www.htmlcodetutorial.com/_B.html
hahaha
owned.
i am an idiot
hahaha
everyone has gotten html-owned at one point.
Ill admit when i first started posting here i wondered how to do it… I went to old posts though.. Your not alone !
html is not an easy thing to do at first
Wasn’t Posada suppossed to start throwing this week? Or next?
yay!
After the 5 go:
Joba
Hughes
Wang
Cano
Gardner
IPK
Brackman
X
Veras
Swisher
Then:
Garcia
Coke
Aceves
Edwar
Miranda
Horne
Sanchez
Cervelli
Not much different… though Damon has partial no trade, don’t know if thats and issue