Dec
22

Open Thread: Wang avoids arbitration

By

The Yanks and righty Chien-Ming Wang agreed to a one year, $5M deal today, avoiding a second straight arbitration hearing. Last year, as you may recall, the two sides went to arbitration over a $600,000 difference in perceived value, and the arbitrator eventually sided with the Yanks, awarding Wang a $4M salary in 2008. Many felt the Yanks were being stingy with their top pitcher, after all what’s another $600 grand on a team with a $200M payroll? Well, it’s not much, but it sets a precedent for the future and triggers a snowball effect.

If Wang won his case and earned a $4.6M salary in ’08, all of a sudden he’s looking at maybe a $5.8-6.2M salary in 2009, rather than the $5M he signed for. The process then repeats after 2009, and again after 2010. They saved themselves just $600,000 in 2008, but perhaps saved themselves millions in future payroll.

There’s also the overall effect. When Joba Chamberlain, or Phil Hughes, or Chad Billingsley, or Tim Lincecum, or any young right hander reaches arbitration, they’ll probably use Wang as a comparable pitcher because arbitrators love simple stats like wins. Wang getting $600,000 less keeps those salaries down somewhat as well. That benefits everyone.

The Yanks have more money than any team in the game, but that doesn’t mean they should spend their dollars senselessly. They’re still a business, after all. (h/t MLBTR)

Here’s your open thread for the night. Talk Wanger, Packers-Bears, whatever you want. Just be nice.

Oh, and make sure you check out Zell’s run-in with Phil Hughes. Color me jealous.

Categories : Open Thread

296 Comments»

  1. Mike R. says:

    Could this be Wang’s year to follow in Moose’s footsteps and reach 20 wins? Where would you put the odds?

    • Stephen says:

      Yea it could only be a disappointing year if he doesn’t make it to that magical mark.

    • Ryan S. says:

      I’m going to be optimistic and agree with you. Even if Wang’s offensive support drops from what it was in 2007, I think he’s going to pitch extremely well, and despite probably less run support than he is used to, there are two other factors that are going to be more favorable for him:

      1. The bullpen should most likely kick ass like it did last year, and hopefully not blow many of his wins.

      2. As the #2 or #3 starter, he’ll be going up against less premiere pitchers than he did in 2007, where he was the uncontested staff ace. He can still out-pitch anyone else in the league when he’s locked in though. I trust Wanger in a big game vs. Beckett, Santana, anybody.

      • Mike A. says:

        I trust Wanger in a big game vs. Beckett, Santana, anybody.

        Really? I don’t think I’m at that point yet.

        • Ryan S. says:

          Yeah, really. He’s shut down Boston before and he can do it again. I know he hasn’t done it in the playoffs yet, but I have faith in the guy.

          For the record, I give the ball to Sabathia first, obviously. But that said, I’d feel fine running Wang out against anybody.

          • Jay CT says:

            I like Wang, but I never trust the guy for some reason. I don’t know why, I think its the fact that he doesn’t strike guys out much (although his numbers have been rising) and therefore is much more susceptible to bad defense or a ball falling in and him winding up having a rally against him.

      • Thomas says:

        “As the #2 or #3 starter, he’ll be going up against less premiere pitchers than he did in 2007, where he was the uncontested staff ace.”

        I hope you mean in the playoffs, because after like the first set of off days or an injury, it is pretty random what level of pitcher (ace or otherwise) Wang will face.

        • Ryan S. says:

          Now that depends. Games vs. the Red Sox, for example, both sides always optimize the rotation in preparation for the series. Wang is going to be seeing a lot more DiceK and a lot less Beckett.

          • Thomas says:

            Last year Wang faced the Sox twice facing Buchholz both times. In 2007, he faced them 5 times facing Tavarez, Wakefield twice, Schilling, and Beckett. I still don’t see this argument holding much water. Though, the Blue Jays do seem to set up their rotation differently when they face the Yankees, so the Yanks would face Halladay and Burnett.

            • Ryan S. says:

              Hmm, interesting. Well I might just be wrong on that point then.

              • Jay CT says:

                I know Ryan, it does seem that the numbers 2′s square off, but once off days and rain delays/double headers begin, roattions get all thrown off. You are right that sometimes managers set up their staff for key series though; I think Peterson liked doing that for the Mets. Key word, LIKED

        • Jake H says:

          That is very true. As the 3rd starter or even the 2nd starter he should be getting weaker pitching matchups. I would love to see Wang get to 20 wins.

  2. Arin says:

    Maybe CC can teach CMW how to run the bases…the picture above is golden.

    • Ryan S. says:

      You know what else was great? Last year when Giambi tried to hit using one of CMW’s bats…oh man that cracked me up.

  3. A.D. says:

    Suprised the Yanks haven’t looked to sign him to a longer deal yet.

    But I guess coming off injury might as well wait and see

    • Steve says:

      You never know with pitchers. Plus, Wang has already had shoulder issues 2-3 times in his Yankee career.

      If he loses a few MPH off that sinker he’ll be batting practice in the AL East, though that would mean he would still be able to pitch great till he’s 36 in the NL West.

  4. Manimal says:

    CMW IS an ace, he is a dominant front line starter. Strike outs isn’t the only stat out there. His ground ball rate is phenomenal and he keeps BB’s low.

    • Steve says:

      He’s a different kind of front line pitcher. He doesn’t miss many bats, but he doesn’t give up any HR’s and tends to go deep into games by keeping his pitch count down.

      That’s why I think he’s a lock to win 20 a few times as he enters his prime, assuming he stays healthy. He won 19 in 2007 and missed a month with a hammy. Once he puts up a few 20 win seasons, people will doubt him less.

      • Mike A. says:

        The thing is that guys who don’t miss bats don’t age as well. The general age progression for pitchers is what Mussina went through:

        mid-20s to early-30′s: best phase of career, misses bats, eats innings, etc
        early-30′s to mid-30′s: misses fewer bats, some injury issues, still solid
        mid’s 30′s on: chuck and duck

        What’s going to happen when Wang allows more contact because he’s aging?

        • Steve says:

          I know that’s the theory, but its a theory based on guys who are attempting to miss bats. Wang pitches to contact, which is a very different approach to pitching altogether.

          When Moose changed his pitching style this year, no longer working off the fastball but using all of his pitches and trying to keep hitters off balance, he had a superb year despite his sub par fastball. Interestingly enough, his SO rates were very similar to previous years when he was TRYING to get swings and misses, which goes to show just how confounding Baseball can be at times. Moose would be the first one to tell you that.

          That’s my long winded way of saying “who the fuck knows?”

          • Stephen says:

            Also, the Yankees atrocious infield defense is not good for Wang, and because he doesn’t miss bats he will always have games where the hitters get lucky and everything falls in.

  5. Joey H says:

    OOOF, somebody on LoHud killed you guys about the Gabe Kapler thing. http://yankees.lhblogs.com/200...../#comments the comment at 424 by greenberet7

    • Mike A. says:

      Yeah I know, I responded further down in the thread. That guy slams us all the time, but never offers a substantial response when I call him out on it.

      • Joey H says:

        Yeah he is a Douche Bag anyway Mike. Hench why he won’t come over here and enlighten us with his wise guy remarks.

      • Ryan S. says:

        Funny story about LoHud:

        Its really only been a couple weeks that I’ve been compelled to start posting my thoughts on a Yankee forum. I tried posting some analysis I had written about the Yanks on LoHud … something I had taken a good 45 minutes writing, it was a pretty long ramble. I posted it and it was completely ignored, nobody even stopped to tell me why I was wrong and a retard.

        Frustrated, I debated over whether to try out NoMaas or RAB’s forums first and see if I would have better luck. I ended up posting on RAB and somebody replied and engaged me in a dialogue about it within a minute, and that settled that. Been posting here everyday since.

        I’m always interested in hearing what Peter Abraham has to say, but his forum posters are a joke.

        • Mike A. says:

          If you spend that long writing up posts, you should just start a blog. You can do it for free at Blogger or a number of other places.

          • Ryan S. says:

            Naw, I usually don’t write for THAT long. It was more like a bunch of thoughts about the team had built up (this is right when we had gotten CC and AJ), and I had to let it all out. I’m totally happy just discussing my thoughts on a daily basis with the RAB community – its easy to tell which guys know their shit, and there are quite a few. My business is internet based and I’m in a video game clan that has its own forums, so my personal website urges have been fulfilled lol.

          • A.D. says:

            plus if he really just wants posting interaction, better off getting that at a blog with a bunch of readers than trying to build a base

            • Ryan S. says:

              Truth. I don’t want to go through the hassle of trying to get popular…and I don’t think my writing would be consistently interesting or educated enough to even merit a fan base. All I wanna do is talk Yanks – I’ll let RAB deal with the other stuff, they seem to be doing a great job.

        • Joey H says:

          For sure. I read the comments for kicks.

      • Old Ranger says:

        GreenBeret is taking chemo , he has cancer. Last I heard, he was at the IF’y stage, looks like he’ll last a few more years…good for him! Some of the rants over there is why I don’t read that post anymore, and moved over here last winter. 27/09.

  6. D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

    I will puke if Pat Burrell is signed by this team.
    Why would we bring Jason Giambi back on this team when we already have at least one first baseman under contract who is a better all around player than he is.

    http://weblogs.newsday.com/spo.....ignin.html

    Congrats to Wang, glad to see them knock this out.

    • I will puke if Pat Burrell is signed by this team.

      I agree. However, let’s say Tex takes the Red Sox money and the Nationals go crazy in reaction and offer a ludicrous 5 year, 125M deal to Manny.

      In this depressed market, if we could get Burrell on like a 2/18M, wouldn’t that be decent? He’s not a worldbeater, but he’s a decent bat. If we limit our exposure, it’s not that bad, IMO…

      • Sweet Dick Willie says:

        if we could get Burrell on like a 2/18M, wouldn’t that be decent?

        Maybe not “puke” horrible, but wouldn’t Dunn be a better option? I realize you may have to increase the offer a bit, but even 3/$33 for Dunn would be better than 2/$18 for Burrell, IMO.

      • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

        I would rather do without than do with Pat the Bat. That guy is a load. Lazy player for his whole career in Philly. I seriously would rather plug Damon / Matsui out there in LF and let the youngins’ fight foe time in CF.

        Pat Burrell I think I loathe you!

  7. Joey H says:

    How much did the Yankees save by signing Wang instead of letting it go to an arbitration hearing?

    • Thomas says:

      Probably not much, since the two sides agreed on the price. Therefore, both groups probably wanted $5 million. Also even if the Yanks wanted $4.8 million and Wang wanted $5.2, the Yanks could have won arbitration. Thus they wouldn’t be saving money, but giving up an extra $200,000.

  8. Dan says:

    Teflon sawx finally take a beating!

    http://lsos1.blogspot.com/

  9. Joey H says:

    Yeah Mike, what made you come across that link? It isn’t up anywhere else.

  10. Thomas says:

    Nationals upping their offer to Teixeira, 8 years and $178-184 million. They also say they are willing to go to 9years and have been talking 10.

    http://masnsports.com/2008/12/.....ken-t.html

  11. H-Man says:

    $16 million for Burnett and $5 million for Wang? Wang should have held out for more. I think it’s a disgrace that they took him to arbitration last year over $600K. Even when he’s not hurt, Burnett’s best is only about on par with what Wang did in 2006 and 2007. Knowing what I hear about Wang, he probably felt bad about the injury and was willing to take less – kind of like the Japanese players when they apologize for getting injured. Do you think guys like Pavano apologize about getting tons of money for pitching 19 games in 4 years? No. I doubt Burnett will either when he pitches (at best) 2.5 years worth of games on a five year contract.

    Wang got screwed. Don’t forget he beat Sabathia 1-0 last year before his injury.

    • Joey H says:

      Why complain?

    • 27 this year says:

      How much more? He wasn’t going to get like 16.5 mil. Plus, the 600K is more than just that. It is millions overall. This year he would made 6 mil then and next year will make another extra mil or two and that adds up. Plus, Wang is still a young player and won’t get paid like established veterans like Burnett for awhile. Plus, I don’t think Wang wanted to go to arb for a 2nd straight year

    • Ryan S. says:

      Baseball is a business. Just wait until they extend Wang to a nice contract if he has a good year again … there won’t be anything disgraceful in those numbers.

    • Matt M says:

      AGAIN…this is for posturing for future debates. everything is inter-connected.

      if wang gets 4.6 million, when joba hits arb years he and his agent will say that they were better than wang and they’ll ask for 5.5 etc.

      if pettitte did what he did last year for 16 million
      well then burnett and his agent have a pretty good argument for 16.5

      case in point. Damon and Matsui making 13 million.
      wonder what posada demanded when he resigned … 13.1 million

    • Jamal G. says:

      We know you are “Hitman”, you’re reputation still stands.

    • steve (different one) says:

      $16 million for Burnett and $5 million for Wang?

      H-Man, without trying to sound like a jerk, you don’t really understand the way the system works.

      you aren’t comparing apples to apples.

      Burnett has NOTHING to do with Wang. at all.

  12. T-Dizzle says:

    how come wang gets 4 arb years and not 3 like everyone else?

    • A.D. says:

      Super 2 player

      • Reggie C. says:

        Hate to ask …. what’s a “super 2″ player?

        • Mike A. says:

          It’s because he came up to the bigs in May. A players needs six years of service time to become a free agent, and because of the timing of his call-up, he won’t have six years worth of service time despite spending five full seasons and most of the sixth in the bigs.

          It’s the same reason the Rays didn’t call up Longoria until May, because they get an extra year of service out of him.

          These players are called Super Two, and because they need seven seasons to accumulate six years worth of service time, they get an extra year of arbitration.

          It’s weird to explain. Cano was the same way, but he signed long term.

          • T-Dizzle says:

            so basically he gets 3 years at miniumum and 4 years arb so hes not a free agent until 7 years but if that is the case how come every team doesnt wait til may to bring up a rookie

            • Mike A. says:

              Exactly.

              If everyone starts doing it, the union will throw a fit because team’s are deliberately delaying free agency. If there’s not a compelling reason to have a guy spend a few weeks in AAA, it’s fishy.

              • T-Dizzle says:

                i gotcha but it still seems weird that its not done more often to me after all its close to impossible to prove a team did it for that exact reason

              • Steve says:

                Given what guys get in Arb these days, and what’s going on in the free agent market this year, they might very well be better off with an extra year of arb.

                Don’t forget, the Yanks declined Andy, Abreu and Pudge for this exact reason. Also goes to show how rigged the arb system is.

          • Reggie C. says:

            So … if Wang came up in April, he’d only have to deal with the regular 2 arbitration years? The difference of one month keeps Wang off the market a whole ‘nother year??

            • Mike A. says:

              Three regular arbitration years, not two.

              First three years are at league minimum, next three are arb years.

              For a super two, the first partial season is league minimum, the next two full years are at the minimum, and the next four are arb years.

              It’s a month and a half, really, that keeps him off the market for another year.

      • T-Dizzle says:

        i dont know what that means and also how do u become one

        • A.D. says:

          From MLB

          A player with three or more years of service, but less than six years, may file for salary arbitration. In addition, a player can be classified as a “Super Two” and be eligible for arbitration with less than three years of service. A player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season and he ranks in the top 17 percent in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season.

  13. H-Man says:

    Do you think the Yanks would have wanted to go to arbitration for two straight years to fight over another $600K or 1.0 million or whatever when they are willing to shell out gobs of money for others?
    How much did they give Rodriguez? Were there even other counter-bidders?

    Here’s Burnett’s stats:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....yerId=4153
    How are these better than Wang’s? I understand he’s young, but is Burnett worth $16 million and Wang $5 million?

    • kunaldo says:

      dude, baseball is a business…wang will get his money in due time…the whole point of developing young pitching is that they’ll be cost effective…so nice guy/ excellent pitcher or not, you’re going to try and save money on him

      besides, we need the money for tex!

    • A.D. says:

      WTF, Wang is under team control.

    • Mike A. says:

      Wang’s under team control, he didn’t have the leverage of being a free agent. If he hit the open market, he’d get $16-18M per easily.

      Apples and oranges.

    • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

      I just would like to make it clear I have no affiliation with this man.

      You sir are a Mike Easler fan.

  14. Bobby G says:

    The Nationals are said to have raised their offer to Tex. If the Sox really have agreed in principle to Tex why would the Nationals raise their off since Tex supposedly already picked where he wants to go.

  15. H-Man says:

    Fair enough – I’m biased since I’m a huge Wang fan. But, I’m so sick of seeing the Yanks pay top dollar for 32 to 36 year olds and hearing Cashman talk about how much he wants to develop within the system. If you want to develop within, pay your guys a little more when they become arbitration eligible and they are on their rise into their prime years instead of overpaying guys who are coming off their prime. I don’t disagree with the biz-aspects of what any of you say and that everything is interconnected, but if the Yanks are willing to take a player to arbitration for $600K in a year when they sign Rodriguez to a massively long term contract for $25 million a year (when they were bidding against themselves), then it doesn’t do much to engender loyalty within the system (or at least not from the fans). You can say Wang sucked in the playoffs in 2007. Well, Rodrigues sucks in the playoffs virtually every year (and Sabathia was almost as bad as Wang in that same ALDS in 2007).

    • kunaldo says:

      dude, you’re really missing the point, and being way too righteous. being under a team’s control is just a part of the game, and players know that they’ll get theirs once they hit FA…you save money where you can, so you can spend on the guys that you don’t have control over

    • Matt M says:

      yea its a pick ur poison deal

      the NFL vastly overpays for their drafted players and their vets make squat compared to that

      MLB kids make pennies in the draft and through the first 6 years before FA. and then the old farts make 10 mill plus

      i love wang and he’ll get his big payday soon enough

    • A.D. says:

      hearing Cashman talk about how much he wants to develop within the system. If you want to develop within, pay your guys a little more when they become arbitration eligible

      This makes no sense, paying guys doesn’t make them play better, or make other prospects better. Therefore paying players under team control more than necessary won’t make the farm or prospects better, it will just raise payroll

    • Ryan S. says:

      Dude, don’t worry. All the homegrown talent that performs well for us gets hooked up. Wang is going to get a very respectable extension if he pitches well this year. We take care of our own … I don’t know what you’re even know what you’re talking about.

      LOL Joba is going to get PAID one day.

    • Steve says:

      Heh. He said he’s “a huge wang fan”

      Not that there’s anything wrong with that, of course.

  16. mustang says:

    Let me start by saying I want Tex over Manny actually I don’t want Manny at all. However from a business stand point Manny wins over Tex by a landside.

    1- locally. The NY Dominican community would eat Manny up. Whatever tickets are left to the stadium next year would be gone and the Manny merchandise GONE.

    2- Nationally. The hate for the Yankees would double and so will the ratings. Some examples Manny’s first at bat as a Yank, his first time in Fenway as a Yank and a possible 2009 ALCS of Boston and NY would probably set baseball rating records.

    From the business side it’s a no-brainer.

  17. Steve says:

    “Joe Posnanski: out of the bidding.”

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/.....ira-9.html

    Gee, that name sounds familiar. Where have I heard that before? Judging by his blog, he seems to be a Yankee fan of some sort.

  18. Jamal G. says:

    Nick Hagadone or Andrew Brackman: who has the highest floor coming off TJS?

  19. Jamal G. says:

    So, are all you Jets fans calling for Eric Mangini’s head?

    • Matt says:

      My uncle is a Jets fan. I’m excited for Christmas to see his reaction.

    • Up until now, I’d given him a pass (because with Pennington as the QB, what can your really accomplish?)

      Now, yeah. Unless we win in week 17 and blow people up in the playoffs, I’ve got to expect regime change. I’m tired of our offensive miscues. We do too much ticky-tack bullshit trick plays and act aggressive when we should be patient, patient when we should be aggressive.

      It was a snowy mess on Sunday, we have Thomas Jones and Tony Richardson, the best power running combo in the league, and a big, physical offensive line, and we have a run-pass ratio of 25-31, we’re kicking FG’s inside the 5 yard line and Brett Favre is throwing duckballs into the wind.

      We’re really talented but play maddeningly soft.

      You know why the Steelers are always in contention? Because they’re physical. We acquired physical players and we’re playing finesse. I have nobody to blame but Mangini and Schottenheimer.

  20. mustang says:

    7:20pm: Roch Kubatko of MASN Online learned from multiple sources that the Nationals “have sweetened their proposal to Teixeira, offering him an eight-year deal worth $178-184MM.” He’s been told they’re willing to go nine years and there’s been talk of ten.

    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

  21. Jamal G. says:

    Fuck yes; MLB 09 The Show is going to have fantasy drafts available for the online leagues. Also, if I am not mistaken, the following quote leads me to believe you can conduct trades and such in offline then load those rosters up for online play; which means trades for your online leagues:

    • Roster Vault (upload/download/rate) (Franchise) – Players can create the ideal roster offline by adjusting player attributes, appearance, accessories, etc. and save them to a Memory Card, Memory Stick, or PS3 Hard Drive. Once online, players can upload them to allow others users to download, use, and rate the roster.

  22. Old Ranger says:

    I posted this earlier, after the LoHud link about GreenBeret7…

    Old Ranger says:

    December 22nd, 2008 at 8:49 pm
    GreenBeret is taking chemo , he has cancer. Last I heard, he was at the IF’y stage, looks like he’ll last a few more years…good for him!
    Some of the rants on that site sent me here last Fall. 27/09.

  23. Ryan S. says:

    Luxury tax time!

    The Yankees were assessed a $26.9 million tax by the commissioner’s office on Monday, up from $23.9 million last year and their biggest bill since paying nearly $34 million for 2005.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/.....id=3788527

  24. Reggie C. says:

    Mike. I gotta ask. How would you take the RS signing of Teixeira ?

    Theo wants to assemble a 1000 run lineup. If a team could mash its way to a WS, wouldn’t it be that lineup?

    • Mike A. says:

      We said that a few years ago about the Yanks.

      Youk probably just had his career year, and Ortiz still has to prove he’s healthy. Drew will probably visit the DL.

      Let’s put it this way, Ortiz + Manny from a few years ago scared me more.

      • Moshe Mandel says:

        Exactly, is a lineup with Manny and Lowell appreciably worse than one with Tex and Bay?

        • Reggie C. says:

          The point is that there are new threats. Lowell and Manny were the past. Now its the guys i’ve listed below. Ortiz is thankfully in decline, but he’ll likely always be the kind of hitter who’ll launch mistake pitches onto the street.

          • Moshe Mandel says:

            Of course there are. But to be a 1000 run lineup, you need more than a 1-6 of very very good hitters- you need one or two great ones as well, guys capable of putting up 160 plus OPS+. If Ortiz isnt that guy anymore, I dont think they have anyone who fits that description.

          • Ortiz is thankfully in decline, but he’ll likely always be the kind of hitter who’ll launch mistake pitches onto the street.

            However, he’ll do it less frequently, and he’ll loopingly swing through strike three more frequently.

            Manny + 2007 Ortiz + Lowell >>>>> Tex + 2009 Ortiz + Bay

          • Ryan S. says:

            Its a good thing our pitching doesn’t look like its going to make a lot of mistakes, eh? I wanna see the old guy stay healthy and the young guys continue to make strides. I haven’t noticed Ellsbury or Lowrie adapt to the way they’re being thrown to now that they’ve been scouted more thoroughly in the major leagues.

      • Reggie C. says:

        Yeah. Except….

        Ortiz + Manny = 2 world series wins

        youk + MVP midget mack + Drew + Bay + Tex = ??

    • Jamal G. says:

      With Mark Teixeira and Jason Varitek assumed, this is how the 2009 Red Sox look 1-9:

      1. JD Drew – RF
      2. Dustin Pedroia – 2B
      3. David Ortiz – DH
      4. Mark Teixeira – 1B
      5. Kevin Youkilis – 3B
      6. Jason Bay – LF
      7. Jed Lowrie – SS
      8. Jacoby Ellsbury – CF (LoL)
      9. All-Star Jason Varitek – C (Roflmao)

      In my opinion, that lineup, while good, does not appear to be dominant. JD Drew can never stay healthy, and outside of a torrid June, had a less-than-stellar 2008; David Ortiz is on a decline; Kevin Youkilis’ 2008 was his peak year, never has he amassed a professional season with a ISoP of .200 or higher other than 152 AB’s as a 26-year-old in Triple-A (2005); Jed Lowrie and Jacoby Ellsbury are still question marks as big-league hitters; Jason Vairtek is… well, Jason fucking Varitek.

      Again, that looks to be be a damn good lineup, but 1,000 runs? Nah, dude.

      • Ryan S. says:

        I’d guesstimate that lineup pumps out 850ish runs if it played an entire season, but it has some question marks on it.

      • Reggie C. says:

        Shit man. I’m sounding like a Sox fan here , BUT it looks to me that we’re simply counting on Drew to miss half a season, Ortiz to drop under .500 slugging, Youk not to settle into a .500 slugger, and Ellsbury to level off like Melky…

        I think Bay hits 5th there right? More proven than Youk.

    • “Mike. I gotta ask. How would you take the RS signing of Teixeira ?
      Theo wants to assemble a 1000 run lineup. If a team could mash its way to a WS, wouldn’t it be that lineup?”

      MAN-NY RAMI-REZ!!!
      (clap clap clap-clap-clap)

      MAN-NY RAMI-REZ!!!
      (clap clap clap-clap-clap)

    • A.D. says:

      Presumably no Lowell if that happens.

      I’d take Manny + Lowell

  25. McCaff says:

    haha nice picutre of him for this post.. he’s a hell of a slugger. and a speedster i might add.

  26. JeffG says:

    Tex to the Sox… I knew it would come to this:

    http://sonsofsimmons.com/mlb/s.....eira/2008/

    Huge mistake on out part… man what a beautiful start to the offseason only to drop the ball pretty big.

    • Ryan S. says:

      We’ve already deemed it bullshit. No other sources can be found.

      • JeffG says:

        Ahh I didn’t know it was posted above… I scrolled up a bit and didn’t see it – figured it must have been new seeing there wasn’t a new post up. My bad.
        I still worry though it is only a matter of time. We seem to be headed toward Manny which is a big mistake in my eyes.

      • Mike A. says:

        You know what the worst part is? Shit like that gives decent, hard working internet journalists (booya) like Joe, Ben and myself a bad rap.

  27. JeffG says:

    I hope that link was not true it may be BS cause it came off a Sux sight… I was on the retarded Abe checking out the recent bashing of the Kapler idea.

  28. Matt says:

    I’m sure I’m late on this, but CHONE projections for pitchers are up on http://www.baseballprojection.com/

    CC: 16-8, 211 IP, 205 H, 19 HR, 43 BB, 185 SO, 7 HBP, 87 R, 80 ER, 30 starts, 3.41 ERA, 1.175 WHIP

    AJ: 12-7, 167 IP, 160 H, 16 HR, 63 BB, 164 SO, 8 HBP, 78 R, 72 ER, 26 starts, 3.88 ERA 1.335 WHIP

  29. VO says:

    25 Million for Manny doesnt that seem a little steep, considering Boras is only making the redsox pay 22.something

  30. Jamal G. says:

    Breaking news: Derek Jeter “thinks Manny would fit in with Yanks”; all attacks on Manny Ramirez’s personal conduct now considered acts of blasphemy and heresy.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/articl.....;fext=.jsp

    • Joey H says:

      Yeah but how would Manny and the Manager fit together? We don’t have the likes of the laid back Joe Torre anymore.

      • Ryan S. says:

        I don’t see any inherent reason why they wouldn’t get along. Girardi doesn’t make pre-judgments on players and he knows Manny would help him win, big time. Girardi is going to be on the hot seat this year if he doesn’t produce, and I bet he’d take whatever they give him in order to do so.

      • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

        Simple way to fix that. Joe G to the YES booth (he was better there than in his current job), Donnie Baseball is saved from that off color blue uni in LA LA land and he gets to talk hitting with his new DH / LF Manny while he takes the thrown that is rightfully his, the manager of the New York Yankees. They even yuk it up together as they get their Boss Jr. ordered hair cuts.

        Or at least it is what I hope for….

        • Matt says:

          Serious question for anyone to answer:

          What makes people believe Don Mattingly would be a good manager?

          • Mike A. says:

            OMG Matt NOOOOOOOO!!!

              • Mike A. says:

                When it comes to Mattingly, don’t get DBHOF started.

                • Matt says:

                  Haha, I figured.

                  I mean, I love Donnie as much as the next guy but I just don’t know why people think he’d make a good manager. Maybe he would, who knows, but I just don’t think I’d like to see him manage the Yankees until he at least managed a minor league team or some other team first.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

                  Matt one thing I do agree with, is that Donnie should have taken a minor league managers job after not getting the Yanks gig. I think the draw of Joe, his son being in the LA farm system, a nice nice check, and not having to live the minor league lifestyle made him not take that job in the minors. Also his family issues I am sure played some part.

                  But did Girardi manager more than one year in the bigs before he got this job? I find it hard to believe that anybody else out there gets the Yanks managers job more than Donnie. The man was managed by Sweet Lou (2 times), Billy Martin (2 times), Buck, Ole numba 8, Dallas Green, and the year he came up the team had 3 different managers if I recall correctly. He also was under Torre during some interesting years.

                • Matt says:

                  I think the Yankees liked Girardi over Donnie because he had relative success in a relative baseball hell-hole with a bunch of young kids.

                  In my eyes, the Girardi hire was more of a long term move than a Mattingly hire would’ve been. Then again, saying “long term” and “Yankees manager” in the same sentence is rather risky, to say the least.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

                  If the Yanks dont make the playoffs this year Girardi will be back on FOX looking like a poor mans baseball version of Howie Long by mid October.

          • Joey H says:

            Hell no. Since he was part of the team in any way we never won a world series.

          • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

            Matt to answer your serious question:

            I think the way he played the game is one reason I think he would be good at the job. He also has been a bench coach and hitting coach on the Yankees and now a hitting coach in LA. I think he also deserved a shot and was passed up for the wrong guy for this current group of players.

            Donnie is not articulate so many think he is not a bright guy, when if you actually listen to the man speak and can get beyond the grammar issues you can tell the man knows the game and is a pretty smart guy.

            Now I was half way kidding when I said what I would like to see happen, but I would still like to see it happen (but it won’t). Just for gods sake somebody get Donnie out of that horrible Royal Blue uni with his name on the back as if we did not know who he is.

            • Mike Pop says:

              Dont get pist because I am not trying to “get on you” but I think the Dodgers colors are fly. Their stylish in my opinion, shit I wear a Dodger cap once in a while.

              NOTE: I am not trying to “be on you”, so dont go get that internet restraining order against me.

              • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

                Fraudulent Yankees fan alert.

                Also how do you nerd types say it? Humor attempt: FAIL

                is that right?

                LOL @ fly, by the way, that was funny.

                • Mike Pop says:

                  I said it because if I didnt say it you would say something like this. “Here this guy goes getting on me again, why do you always get on me, do you enjoy this. Grow up kid.”

                  I was not attempting to be funny but Im glad me saying “fly” brought you a laugh.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

                  Man that is EXACTLY what I would have said.

                  NOT (Borat tone)

                  On a serious note, just to keep it trill with ya, I just did not know that the word fly was still used in that context.

                • Mike Pop says:

                  This was some years back but he uses it in that context.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

                  Ok as long as it was at least 5 to 7 years ago the context would still be a tad smidgen tardy but we might be able to accept that one ya heard.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

                  Lloyd Banks has no personality, or style. You get no points for a Lloyd Banks reference here. Plus I think that song has got to be a good 4 or 5 years old minimum back when anything from the Unit sold well just because the burbs were dieing for anything Fif related.

              • Mike A. says:

                I had a Dodgers’ hat about four years ago. Of course I was trying to nail a chick from LA at the time, but that’s besides the point.

                • Steve H says:

                  Trying? Didn’t close the deal?

                • Mike A. says:

                  Oh I closed the deal. I closed the hella outta that deal.

                  ;)

                • Mike Pop says:

                  Haha, I wore mine when I went out on Thursday night. Matched my shirt Hilfiger button down. I told my friend this.

                  “Oh Ill be there Ed and Im going to look gooood.”

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

                  Wearing a LA hat and bragging about it on here loses both you guys any right to ever talk down on anybody here. God god yall. Like you can wear teams that no longer exist or something like a Colt .45′s hat, or a Expos hat maybe but a Dodgers cap?

                  59-50 or cotton loose structure twins enterprises hat? The answer may give away your age and your social group.

                  If 5950, bent or flat brim? Correct fitted size or oversized? Sticker on or off? The size sticker and or the MLB holo sticker?

                • Mike A. says:

                  It was this one:

                  http://www.lids.com/pid/04399

                  Not sure what that says about my social group or anything like that, but I recently turned 27 and I’m as regular as regular guys get. Not sure what a hat has to do with any of that.

                  It’s just a hat, I never stopped rooting for the Yanks. Heck, I’m wearing a pair of Adidas Mets’ shorts right now. Know why? Because they’re comfortable as hell.

                • Mike Pop says:

                  Flat, correct fitted, mlb sticker on. Regular Dodger colors.

                • Mike Pop says:

                  Team logos I wont wear are Red Sox, Patriots, Washington Racial Slurs, Philly Eagals, New Jersey Giants. Im less picky bout the NBA but thats prob only the Heat and Spurs.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

                  Mike A. I wish you did not give me your age but I would have guessed 27 to 35, white, college educated, drinks trendy beers, listens to “classic rock” and owns at least one video game console.

                  Mike Pop geez buddy. If it was a few years ago and I would have guessed Swedish businessman in NY to break ground on his Crunchy Stars Cereal factory (that is a Swedish Chef joke, you may or may not be old enough to get that, and if you are you may not remember the reference)

                  Now since it is 2008 I am going to say 19 to 26, white, in college, not working in fast food currently but has either worked there or contemplated it. Listens to Lil Wayne but thinks 50 Cent is TEH SUXOR or whatever the hell you guys say on here. Has two or more video game consoles, and wears nike dunks.

                  Am I close on anything or way off lol? I am just playing around so please do not be offended.

                • Mike A. says:

                  I’m not into classic rock at all, and trendy beers don’t do it for me. Otherwise, you nailed it.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

                  Mike A. by trendy beers I mean Heinis or like Sam Adams. Still wrong? I guess Heinies are not considered trendy anymore?

                • Mike Pop says:

                  18, waiting tables/bussing at a restaraunt/bar. Love 50 but dislike Lil Wayne except for a few songs. Currently enrolled at Community College while trying to help save up money for Sacred Heart. Never even thought about fast food. All I have is a Ps2 and a N64. Am into more music than Rap though. Like long walks on the beach with that special girl and love watching the Yankees. I am adventurous and outgoing.

                  But otherwise I found that comment actually pretty funny.

                • Mike A. says:

                  Heh, you said Heinie. But no time to laugh about it now.

                  Sam Adams is trendy? I could drink that stuff all day. Well, probably not, but I could try. I’m more into microbrews.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

                  LOL do we have to go on a date now? Haha but I’m I’m I’m not how you say, Gaybe Kapler. Not that there is anything wrong with that (Seinfeld tone)

                  Good luck on saving up for school, nothing wrong with Community College just make sure your credits transfer.

                  I was pretty good though right? From a message board and a hat I got pretty close. I should have guessed younger due to the flat brim, not many 26 year olds rock a flat brim. You threw me off because you did not use the size sticker. I like telling people in public that they can take off the sticker because they bought the hat, kinda sorta like a mattress tag (I get blank stares on that one though)

                  The 50 Cent thing was another mistake, I should have seen the regional bias outweighing age because everybody outside of the tri state your age knows that Wayne is top 5 dead or alive. WAYNE IS THE GOAT!

                  Ok so older guy to younger guy talk here for you.

                  Son bend the brim at least a little bit, enough so you do not resemble an overseas exchange student from the 80′s.

                  All in fun.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

                  Mike A.

                  “I’m more into microbrews.”

                  Dude, I had you pegged. If a microbrew is not trendy what is? (I know nothing about beer as I do not partake in adult beverages, but I would call that trendy)

              • Matt says:

                I WANNA BE ON YOU!

            • Matt says:

              “I think the way he played the game is one reason I think he would be good at the job. ”

              What does that mean, though? Being a good player =/= being a good manager; just ask Frank Robinson.

              “I think he also deserved a shot and was passed up for the wrong guy for this current group of players”

              This I disagree with. I think it was the smart move not to give Mattingly the helm as his first managerial job. I also believe the organization was going (and still is going) with the youth thing. Girardi had good success with the young guys in Florida so using him is smarter, IMO–I think that’s why they went w/Eiland as well, because of his roots in the minor league system. I understand Donnie’s connection to the organization, but I just don’t see him as a great manager.

              As an aside, I really think managers get a little too much credit and a little too much blame for their teams’ success. Earl Weaver once said managing a team is getting credit for three run homers someone else hits. There’s a ton of truth to that. All a manager can do is put in the players and hope something good happens. Of course, it’s all a matter of knowing who to put in when or who not to put in when, etc.
              /rambling.

              • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

                Matt, being as you quoted or paraphrased one of my favorites in Earl Weaver, I will take it easy on you although I feel like Banner turing into the Hulk when defending Donnie lol.

                Donnie was not just a good player, he was a complete player who lacked a lot of what many of his peers had tons of. He was a pretty small guy for his position and his power. He was slow, yet one of the best base runners I have ever seen. Being a great manager is also about getting production and ability out of guys who have it but are not using it correctly.

                Ted Williams would be a better example of a great player (only hitter), turned horrible manager. That was because he could not understand how everybody did not hit as well as he did. Donnie is not that dumb.

                “I understand Donnie’s connection to the organization, but I just don’t see him as a great manager. ”

                Do you see Girardi as a great manager? After last year I sure as hell don’t. And I like Joe. I also thought it was well past the time for Joe Torre to take a hike, but Girardi only did two things better than Torre in his first year. Bullpen management, and he got Moose to throw the damn ball inside for the first time as a Yankee.

                “Girardi had good success with the young guys in Florida so using him is smarter,”

                You mean the pitchers that he burnt into the ground? Or the fact that his team showed heart and competed for a while in a horrible division in the more horrible NL aka AAAA. I think Joe did a respectable job in Miami but it was overblown. He also had a tiny sample size in which to judge him. Also clue me in on all the young guys on the Yanks?

                “All a manager can do is put in the players and hope something good happens. Of course, it’s all a matter of knowing who to put in when or who not to put in when, etc.”

                Yup, so if that is the case you think Donnie could not trot out the same lineup as Girardi?

            • Sweet Dick Willie says:

              I think the way he played the game is one reason I think he would be good at the job.

              FYI, nobody’s approach to the game was better than Teddy Ballgame’s, but he was a horseshit manager.

    • Mike Pop says:

      That just makes it official if the Cap said it.

    • Steve H says:

      “I know he’s had a lot of success everywhere he’s gone, and it seems his teams have done been pretty good.”-Derek Jeter

      Leave it to Jeter to make it so simple. Manny has had success his whole career, and so have his teams. Forget everything else that you’ve read about him, which we don’t know what is true and what isn’t, and Jeter’s comments ring so true.

      • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

        Steve, the rules here state you can not side with Jeter, or find him to be correct in anything he says. You have to make fun of his ability to simplify the simple. Those are the rules bucko.

      • ryan says:

        what do you expect Jeter to say? ” that manny is an awful player and he’d never fit in here”? Jeter is gonna be humble and say very few negative things about other players, this should be no shock. He Also mentioned that they didn’t have to add a bat due to the upgraded pitching. He’s just being neutral and playing it smart in case the yanks do make a push. This is barely news, predictable.

      • Ryan S. says:

        I translate the Jeter quote to “I would deign to allow him in my presence, though it concerns me naught.”

  31. gg says:

    to steve H, manny is a winner, he will be clutch for the yanks as he has been his whole career

    • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

      Manny is also a whiner, but they let him do his little act as long as they could sell it in Boston. As long as you do not let him start the acting up here, I see no problem developing.

      Manny with a haircut will kill the Sox and their fans. It would be fun.

  32. A.D. says:

    The manny acquisition spin has begun

  33. Mike A. says:

    Good grief, I need 0.95 more pts out of Ryan Grant tonight to win in fantasy. There’s zero chance he gets them for me.

  34. Mike A. says:

    Wow, what a bad penalty. Stupid.

  35. Matt says:

    Hearing Tony Kornheiser announce is like listening to a video game the way he repeats himself.

    • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald says:

      Why is there a need for 3 people or more in a booth for any sport? MNF is a joke. I can not watch it because of Tony K. Tony you are good at your day job (no not writing but that silly show on ESPN), this night job not so much.

      While we are at it, if somebody could beat up Joe Buck or at least make sure he never talks while I try to watch a Yankees game I would greatly appreciate it.

  36. Moshe Mandel says:

    As a fan of the GB Packers, I have to say that this is the most frustrating season ever.

  37. Wang fan says:

    “That benefits everyone.”

    It’s not!!!

  38. Yankees_Universe says:

    Hey Mike,
    I love the work you guys do at RAB. After looking at Wang’s picture in your post it gives me chills, we don’t want to see him in that pose ever again except in WS. One lost season is good enough reason to not let him anywhere near the bases. Please use one of his famous pitching poses or even mugshots will be fine.

    • GoTerpsGo says:

      I don’t know too many tall Taiwanese guys (5’7″ would be charitable for me) but that picture makes him definitely look tall and skinny.

      DON’T RUN THE BASES!!!! :D

  39. [...] Wang By unkulsal Im glad to see Wang sign up. Baseball economics. [...]

  40. [...] as the only Yankees who will face this process. The Yankees other eligible player, Chien-Ming Wang, agreed to a $5 million 2009 salary last week to avoid [...]

  41. [...] those will get done relatively soon. The Yanks’ other arbitration case, Chien-Ming Wang, agreed to a $5 million contract last [...]

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