Dec
19

Red Sox, Teixeira dancing the tango

By

By all public accounts last night, it seemed as though the Sox had pulled out of the Mark Teixeira sweepstakes. After a night to sleep on it, Jon Heyman’s “multiple baseball sources” say that’s not true. Rather, the Red Sox have made their best offer to Teixeira; they won’t go any higher; and the first baseman’s future is in his own hands. This may just be a dance the two sides are playing to stall negotiations or it may portend a final outcome in which Teixeira and Scott Boras just follow the money. The Yankees are playing this one close to the vest.

Additional pontification by Joe.

The most interesting two paragraphs in the linked Madden article, I think, are these:

It was believed that the Red Sox’s offer to Teixeira was for eight years at around $170 million and that Angels owner Arte Moreno topped out at $160 million over eight years in his offer.

With those figures floating around, it’s not clear what “other offers” Henry was referring to. According to a source, Boras informed the Red Sox that if they were willing to go to $184 million over eight years, they could have Teixeira.

So, like Ben, I believe this is just another part of the dance. The $184 million over eight years represents a $23 million AAV, or exactly what CC Sabathia commanded. I think that, ultimately, the Red Sox would be willing to add Teixeira at this amount. They just don’t want to jump into it now, when it is uncertain whether Teixeira has a better offer in hand than the rumored eight year, $170 million offer from the Sox.

Most interesting, of course, is the final line. “[I]f they were willing to go to $184 million over eight years, they could have Teixeira.” Sounds like that’s an opportunity to swoop in and nab Teixeira. Perhaps, then, the rumors of an insane offer from Washington are overblown (Feinsand’s article mentions an eight-year, $120 million deal, which clearly wouldn’t cut it). Perhaps the $170 million offer is, in fact, the best offer officially on the table, and Boras just wants to squeeze out as much as possible. The Red Sox see this, and are backing off for the moment, confident that their offer will remain the best.

It’s tempting, at least to the fan, to think that all the Yankees would have to do is phone Boras and say “we’ll give Teixeira eight years and $184 million.” If it’s that easy, I’m sure many of you are thinking, why don’t the Yanks just do it? I’m not sure of their exact reasons. I’m sure it has plenty to do with the current payroll scheme, both for the 2009 team and for long term projection. It probably also takes into consideration the relative value of Teixeira — in that he’s not worth the payout.

Clearly, I think the Yanks should do this. However, I realize that if they don’t, they have their reasons, many of which I’m not privy to. It’s easy for you and me to project decisions for the Yanks. We’re passionate observers on the outside looking in. We want what’s best for the team, but we don’t have all the relevant information at hand.

Let me repeat: If I’m Brian Cashman, I’m spending the bulk of my Friday convincing Hal Steinbrenner to okay the funds to acquire Teixeira.

Categories : Hot Stove League
  • Glen L

    I’M TEH FIRST!!!!@111!!!

    fwiw fangraphs disagrees .. 23mm AAV is precisely what they peg Tex’s value at http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs.....tons-value

  • Ryan S.

    Interesting development. Bastard BoSox are shrewd mofos, I gotta give them that. Obviously, someone is bluffing. It’d be pretty cool to see Tex wearing pinstripes, and I certainly wouldn’t be against it, but I still prefer the thought of Manny doing the same thing instead. That said, Yanks + Tex is a better outcome than BoSo + Tex and Yanks + Manny.

  • Bill

    Theo always gets his man.

    • whozat

      Yeah. I’m sure that when he signed renteria, he was envisioning winding up dumping a bunch of money to wind up with a middle reliever, and then paying Julio Lugo only to look to swap him for another bad contract.

      • T-Dizzle

        yea but they still got manny a while back and they got beckett when they wanted him and schilling and dice k

        • steve (different one)

          Theo didn’t get Manny.

          and technically he didn’t get Beckett either.

          Schilling? there was no competition. Schilling would only go to NY, Boston, or Philly, and Arizona wasn’t willing to deal with the Yankees b/c Steinbrenner screwed them a year earlier on David Wells.

          don’t get me wrong, he’s a good GM.

          but he’s made plenty of mistakes.

          • T-Dizzle

            i know hes made mistakes like lugo and crisp but im just saying typically when he really really wants a guy he gets him whether it was the right choice or not i didnt know that about the david wells and diamondbacks thing but it just seems over the years when boston really really wants a player they find a way to make it happen whether it is correct or not doesnt matter

            • Jay CT

              I think Theo is a bit overrated. He was the GM on board when they broke “the curse,” thus making him a hero forever. But Beckett wasn’t his. Schilling was heading there due to no other places to go. Didn’t do Manny. I think he was responsible for Ortiz, but I have to believe his increase in production was due to some sort of PED (which I personally do not care about since I think 80% used, but still). Just my two cents?

            • Steve H

              Theo got Schilling because he couldn’t get the guy he wanted, Javy Vasquez. Theo wanted Contreras badly, and didn’t get him. Theo doesn’t always get his man.

              • UWS

                Funny how so many of these non-moves turned out to be in Sox’s favor, eh? Theo would’ve been in witness protection by now if he literally always got his man…as it is, mediots are railing on Cashman for making the moves most any other GM would’ve made in his place.

                • Steve H

                  He’d probably be out of a job if he’d have gotten all his guys. And if you look at the 2004 team, he didn’t bring in many of those guys at all. And remember his bullpen by committee failure?

        • whozat

          “they got beckett when they wanted him and schilling and dice k”

          My point is that “getting his man” is not always a good thing.

          The guy makes mistakes too. It’s just that his organization was smart enough to start paying attention to player development about three years before Cash convinced the Yankees to, and he’s been reaping the benefits.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            That, and that the Sox actually had several high draft picks with which to get good talent, while we had few…

      • Mike Pop

        He got Marte for Renteria…if thats a good thing

        • whozat

          And then flipped Marte for Crisp, who was OK. And then flipped Crisp for a middle reliever.

          • steve (different one)

            don’t forget he sent Shoppach in that deal as well.

            Shoppach would easily be the best catcher in their system and would probably be their starting catcher next year.

            Shoppach hit .261/.348/.517 last year.

            he’s a starter on 2/3 of the teams in the majors.

            • UWS

              Don’t forget the trade that sent Meredith and Bard (another catcher! hahaha!) to SD for the immortal Doug Mirabelli.

            • Brooklyn Ed

              ..and don’t get shipping off Freddy Sanchez. became a batting champ in 06, and a solid 2B.

              • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

                Easy now. Sanchez had one good year. The dude just OBP’d under .300.

      • TurnTwo

        and in spite of those moves, he still brought the Saux two championships over the past handful of years.

        • CountryClub

          He didnt get Arod. And he didnt get Pavano even though they offered more money. Too bad for the Yanks on the 2nd one.

      • E-ROC

        Matt Clement?!?!!?!??!?!?

        • UWS

          Eric Gagne?

          • E-ROC

            That’s a good one.

  • T-Dizzle

    i agree do whatever it takes to get tex but if not there are good options besides tex like MANNY or dunn or bring giambi back they just need one more bat no matter who it is as long as its middle of the order with power

    • UWS

      Duuuude, do you ever use capital letters or punctuation marks? Alternatively, do you ever read over your comments before you click “Add comment”? Some rudimentary editing would greatly enhance other people’s enjoyment of your comments…and potentially prevent them from making fun of you!

      • Ryan S.

        but sometimes you have an idea that you need to type out because it is a good idea and you want people to read it who cares about grammar when you have ideas that are worth sharing with other people and people who make fun of him are just jerks who need to get a better hobby than making fun of him because they are jerks and you dont need to also be a jerk and give him advice when he is doing just fine writing about good ideas that people who arent jerks should read

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          I would love to watch T-Dizzle and 65hughes get into a shouting match.

          • UWS

            How do we know they’re not the same person?

            • T-Dizzle

              im not the same as 65hughes the only other person i know on this blog is my older brother and i dont even want peavey that much like that other guy plus yall act like we are the first people in history not to care about grammar on a blog its really not that big of a deal

              • Mike Pop

                P-E-A-V-Y

                Im with ya T-dizz, I hate grammar too bro.

                • Jay CT

                  Lol, yeah but there is a difference between not liking grammar and not knowing how to use a fricken PERIOD!

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                Yes, not using grammar and punctuation isn’t that big of a deal. It’s also not that hard at all. You act like we’re asking you to calculate pi. We’re not. Just mix in a few periods and commas every once and a while.

                It’s called civil society. Sure, there’s nothing wrong with leaving your house without pants on, you can still be just as productive at work, but it’s a nice thing to do to make society a bit more tolerable. I’m not going to die if I see your wang, I just don’t particularly want to.

                • UWS

                  …as a matter of fact, I leave my house without pants on all the time!

                • Nady Nation

                  Eloquently put.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  …as a matter of fact, I leave my house without pants on all the time!

                  Let me clarify: I don’t want Nady Nation to walk around without pants on.

                  You, my dear, are another story. You don’t like pants? Good. Go pantsless every day, you have my approval.

                • jsbrendog

                  hey i dont use capital letters but i do indeed use periods to break up my ideas. i also am just too lazy at times to press enter and break my ocmments up even tho i need to. therefore most of my wisdom probably goes undrea and everyone thinks i just post facepalms and TEH CAH ES EL SUX)IEST

                  ca lavie

                  My yearly breakdown of punctuation and hitting enter:

                  07 (rookie campaign) .302, wOBA (writing overbearind bad annoying things) .276

                  it was a rough campaign

                  08 .276, wOBA .285 (slight improvement on the wOBA although a sophmore slump in the avg of user of punctuation and pressing enter)

                  “I’m really looking forward to 09 and I think I have a chance to really help the blog. I’m just gonna show up everyday and play the game and do my best to help this blog win”

      • T-Dizzle

        again its a sports blog im not gonna spend time proofreading and i dont care about peeps making fun of me it just gets annoying when tommy roams around here being a dick to almost everyone for simply stating a yankee opinion that he doesnt agree with

        • Ryan S.

          T-Dizzle you really do have some good thoughts every now and then – I think the RAB guys even answered one of your questions yesterday on the podcast. Its not like people are asking you to stfu … is just that reading all those words without any type of sentence structure … kinda sucks shit. It also makes you come off as seeming less educated. You obviously care that the guys here listen to your opinions or you wouldn’t be posting – you’d have a better chance of people intellectually engaging your positions on those issues if you were to spend a modicum of time focusing on grammar and syntax.

          • UWS

            Bingo.

          • jsbrendog

            and usually when tjsc comes at some one he has factual evidence. he has made me look dumb for saying some things (asshole) but has backed them up with relevant facts and stats that while i want to slap him with a salmon, prove me wrong. dems the breaks. I would rather have that thatn continue to sound dumb or be wrong.

            but he can also be confrontational and abrasive (which i personally find hilarious)

            ps, i understand your laziness and aversion to punctuation and capitalization. My main aversion is to spelling. if i type it wrong the first time fuck it, people here are smart they’ll figure it out

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              but he can also be confrontational and abrasive (which i personally find hilarious)

              jsb, I’m gonna RIP THE EYEBALLS OUT OF YOUR HEAD AND PISS IN YOUR DEAD SKULL!!! YOU FUCKED WITH THE WRONG MARINE!!!!

              • jsbrendog

                yup[, there it is, ridiculous upside.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          ugh.

          • Steve H

            you bully!

        • Nady Nation

          yea tommy why u gotta be such a douche when all we wanna do is talk about yankees and not care about grammar i dont see why this is a big deal punctuations overrated

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            yeah tommy stop reading what i say i wanna say stuff and not have anyone disagree with me why you a dick all the time p.s. ichiro is awesome

            • T-Dizzle

              i know your being sarcastic but i dont get how anyone can disagree with me thinking ichiro is awesome and would be perfect for the yanks he plays great D with a great arm and gets on base all the same thing everyone on here including you always preach about

              • Nady Nation

                No one’s doubting his skills, it’s more about his age/contract and the haul of prospects that would be required to obtain him.

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                A) Ichiro is not a free agent, we’d have to trade away prospects for him, and he’s the face of the franchise… they’re not going to just hand him over to us for chickenscratch.
                B) He’s owed SEVENTEEN MILLION DOLLARS for the next four years, during which he’s going to be 35, 36, 37, and 38 years old.
                C) He just put up a .310/.361/.386, all easily the worst numbers of his career. He’s a non-power guy who barely walks and relies on supreme bat speed and leg speed, and he’s aging… The red flags for a career nosedive practically scream at you.

                Manny is an otherworldly hitter. Ichiro Suzuki is a glorified Brett Butler who’s aging badly and horrendously overpaid, and we’d have to surrender prospects for him.

                Bad idea.

                • Steve H

                  So now you’re picking on Ichiro too? Bully.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  I’m like Beetlejuice… if you call me a bully again, I’ll be forced to incorporate it into my name somehow.

                • Jay CT

                  In fairness, about Ichiro. I dont know if anyone else happen to be at the All Star game, but I was sitting first row in right field. The dude was catching fly balls and even some line drives behind his back, and then took 10 swings in the cage, sending 6 into the upper deck. The dude is ridiculus.

                  That being said, it would take too much to bring him in I think

                • Steve H

                  if you call me a bully again, I’ll be forced to incorporate it into my name somehow.

                  Are you challenging me to call you a bully, or are you challenging yourself to incorporate bully into your name without dropping ridiculous upside or exceeding the character limits placed on names?

                  Either way, your attacks on Ichiro and improper grammar force me to call you a bully, again.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  Either way, your attacks on Ichiro and improper grammar force me to call you a bully, again.

                  OH NO, NOW YOU DID IT!!!!!!

                  http://www.guarimgames.com/loja/images/Bully.jpg

            • Mike Pop

              THATS ENOUGH

      • Currambayankees

        What are you the grammar police? We come here to talk about our beloved Yankess to hell with grammar that’s for school. I understood what he’s saying perfectly, if you have a problem with someone elses grammar then skip over it.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      or bring giambi back they just need one more bat no matter who it is as long as its middle of the order with power

      You really think ancient Jason Giambi is a good idea? Where does he play, first of all? Swisher is at 1B, Matsui is at DH… I’ll bench/trade Matsui for Manny or Tex. I won’t do it for old, decrepit Jason Giambi.

      • T-Dizzle

        your the guy constantly obsessing over signing manny so how about giambi plays the same position manny would play… DH …. he hit 32 homers last year and slugged over 500 and had ops of 128 is it so bad to bring him back for 1 year low salary if u cant get anyone else

        • Ryan S.

          -Manny is I think 2 years younger than Giambi, which is pretty important when you’re talking about guys in their mid to late 30s.

          -Manny is one of the greatest hitters in the history of baseball. Giambi is a quality hitter for his era.

          -There are equal or cheaper options than Giambi that would produce at a higher rate more consistently and have some defensive value (i.e. Adam Dunn)

          -Manny is one of the most feared hitters ever. Whoever bats in front of Manny (as in A-Rod if ManRam is a Yankee) is going to see a TON of hittable pitches.

          They’re not close to equal.

          • Ryan S.

            Oh, also, since we’re probably stuck with Matsui as a DH, at least Manny gives us a little flexibility since he can play a corner OF – albeit poorly – if we need him too. Giambi is a nightmare at 1B, where we already have our guy in Swisher anyway, and would need to be relegated strictly to DH duty.

          • T-Dizzle

            i never said they were equal im saying if the yanks miss out on manny that giambi might be an option im actually one of the biggest manny supporters on here im just saying its a backup plan and not bad cuz its only 1 year and i mean he did hit 32 homers and got on base at a good clip

            • Mike Pop

              I hear you man but I think I would rather give Milton a 1 year deal.. I really cant believe that dude mashes like he does when healthy. DH his ass and split time in the outfield with whoever.. I think Matsui might be able to play the outfield once in a while

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                Milton Bradley is probably entirely a myth of Arlington Field. His home numbers were otherworldly. His road numbers were pedestrian.

                He’s never produced like that at any level prior to that brief handful of games in Texas.

                We should be dubious of every offensive stat from Coors and Arlington (as well as every pitching stat from Petco).

                • Mike Pop

                  Holy Santa Clause shit your right

                • Jay CT

                  Doesn’t Bradley want 4 years anyway?

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          A) in my scenarios, I have Manny in LF, not DH.
          B) Manny solves a problem for the next three years, thus justifying dumping Matsui for one. Giambi only solves a problem for one year, thus not justifying dumping Matsui at all.
          C) Giambi is old, and far from likely to continue OPS+ing 128. Hence, there’s no need to add him at the expense of Matsui, who we’re already contractually obligated to pay. Giambi would be duplicating what we already have. Manny would be improving what we already have. Big difference.

          You say above that I act like a “dick” to you.

          All I’m doing is having a discussion with you. You seem to constantly hate having what you say analyzed. As you say above, “it’s a sports blog”.

          BLOGS ARE COMMUNICATION MEDIUMS WHERE PEOPLE SHARE AND ANALYZE FACTS AND OPINIONS. 90% of us make statements and share opinions and then dissect and analyze them. If you can’t handle that, STOP SPEAKING.

          • T-Dizzle

            no i understand im just saying you seem to be overly antagonistic for no reason sometimes and i just think theres a nicer way to approach differences of opinion much like the way ryan is in the above conversation

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              Fine. Then we’ll put it to bed. Let’s just all make statements, and not get upset when somebody disagrees.

              • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                Oh look at Sweet Dee sitting in her cloud of judgment, passing down life lessons to all the sinners.

                Please tell me someone in here is a “Sunny” fan. TSJC, you shall now and forever after be known as Sweet Dee. By me, at least.

                • Steve H

                  Mondesi, you will be forever known to me as Green Man.

                  The Day Man/Night Man episode was one of the greatest things to ever grace my TV.

                • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  Ha… It’s fitting, I AM a master of karate and friendship for everyone.

                  You know they have Green Man dancing at NJ Devils games now?

                • Steve H

                  I did not know that, that’s awesome. Probably should be done at Flyers games, but oh well.

          • JeffG

            Manny creates a problem this year and for the next three years. He is not going to improve our defense one bit over Damond in left. Where would JD play? Manny being an Asshole – huge problem as well but not going to argue past that.
            Giambi is one year older than Manny so I really don’t get what you’re saying there either? In my mind Manny could fall off any time during his next contract.

            The “dick” argument… perhaps you don’t realize that on occasion you come off as acting like other people’s opinions are worthless. Anyways, I think you do make plenty of fine points and the humor at times is great, outside of the mimic crap where people are so dumb!!!!@111!!!

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              perhaps you don’t realize that on occasion you come off as acting like other people’s opinions are worthless.

              Well, if I do that, I apologize.

              But, in my defense, some opinions are kinda worthless if they’re not rooted in any reality. I can have the opinion that Melky Cabrera is an awesome player and we should give the 2009 CF job to him, but if it’s a flawed opinion, because it’s entirely subjective/emotional, I’d better be prepared to back it up with something, otherwise it’s just simpleton fluff that will get ridiculed (and rightly so.)

              Not all opinions are created equal.

              • jsbrendog

                yes, and as an example, saying that cashman sucks because he didnt trade ipk and melky for santana (which for the fucking life of me i cannot see how people think this) is indeed a stupid and worthless opinion and inr eference see my point below about the inherent stupidity in people.

                in closing, almost everyone on here myself included has their share of good points and absolutely stupid not rooted in any reality points and opinions. its all about discussion and we all are wrong and right often.

            • jsbrendog

              i dont know if its you continually or domeone else but it is damon not damond. and the d and n are not close enough for that to be an accidental typo.

              in resposne to your final point, i believe that most people are dumb. not necessarily people who post here, but in general msot people are inherently stupid

              • Steve H

                Most people are ugly too.

  • steve (different one)

    Most interesting, of course, is the final line. “[I]f they were willing to go to $184 million over eight years, they could have Teixeira.” Sounds like that’s an opportunity to swoop in and nab Teixeira. Perhaps, then, the rumors of an insane offer from Washington are overblown

    wait, $184M/8 isn’t insane?

    i’d love Teixeira, but the idea that committing $23M to player who plays a non-premium position for EIGHT YEARS is some sort of “no brainer” is ludicrous.

    8 years is a baseball eternity.

    if Teixeira is only slightly above average 5 years from now, that contract is an albatross.

    Teixeira is a great hitter, but he’s not a Manny-type hitter, where the decline phase into his mid 30′s can keep him an elite-elite talent.

    i’m not saying the Yankees shouldn’t do this, i am just disagreeing with the level of certainty you are implying.

    • TurnTwo

      it doesnt matter. the yankees can afford it. they need to stop crying poverty and get it done.

      • TurnTwo

        ok, let me clarify this a bit.

        the yankees can afford to overpay a player if they feel he is the right fit for the position and for the organization, where some other teams cant.

        for me, if Cashman sees a player (like Tex) who fills a need the Yankees have now, and for the near future, he should do what it takes to fill the need.

        which is why i wouldnt necessarily have cared if they offered, and Pettitte accepted, arbitration. i couldnt care less about the actual salary a player makes… if he is the best option on the FA or trade market that is available to fill a need, then just lock him up.

        but if they think there is someone else who is a better option ,then dont do it.

        but its been a long time since a player the caliber of Mark Teixeira made the FA market, too.

        • steve (different one)

          the yankees can afford to overpay a player if they feel he is the right fit for the position and for the organization, where some other teams cant.

          and what i am saying is that we really don’t know if they can afford to overpay MARK TEIXEIRA or not.

          sure, i know YOU don’t care how much they spend. but that’s completely irrelevant. what matters is what Hal Steinbrenner says they can spend. they have a number and none of us know what it is.

          this assumption that that number is infinity is a little crazy.

          if the Yankees opt to not spend $200M on Teixeira and instead opt to spend 25% of that on Manny, how can we as fans complain about that?

          • TurnTwo

            but long term planning has how much payroll coming off next year?

            • TurnTwo

              and the year after that? etc…

            • steve (different one)

              ok, but those 2 players, Damon and Matui, will need to be replaced.

              i doubt much money is coming off at all next year.

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                If we replace one of them now, that’s one less person to replace later.

                And, Austin Jackson leaps to mind as an in-house replacement.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      i’d love Teixeira, but the idea that committing $23M to player who plays a non-premium position for EIGHT YEARS is some sort of “no brainer” is ludicrous.

      First base is not a non-premium position. There’s no such thing as a non-premium position. There’s defense-intensive positions and offense-intensive positions.

      First base is an offense-intensive position. We need a good offensive producer, first base is a good and logical place to put one, hence, Tex makes sense. As an added bonus, he’ll play good defense there, at a position we don’t expect/require good defense from. Tex is like Jeter or ARod in his prime, in reverse – he’s elite because he gives you what you need from his position (offense for Tex at 1st, defense for Jeter/ARod at short) as well as giving you something unexpected/unusual from his position (defense for Tex at 1st, offense for Jeter/ARod at short).

      This “first base is not a premium position” or “we shouldn’t be spending big bucks are first base” are two lines of thought that don’t make much sense.

      • steve (different one)

        “we shouldn’t be spending big bucks are first base”

        i never said signing Teixeira for $184M/8 was a bad idea. forget the 1st base thing. it’s mixing up an argument that i wasn’t trying to start.

        i just said i disagreed with the tone: that this was ABSOLUTELY something they should do.

        that is a sh*tton of money, and if they decide to spread the risk around and opt to spend 1/3 of the money on Manny, i don’t feel like i should blast them for that.

        otherwise, aren’t we basically arguing that the Yankees have a bottomless amount of money?

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Okay, yeah. I can see why you’d be against the deal simply on a “$184M is to much for Tex” line of thought.

          I just disagreed with the “don’t spend big money at 1st base” concept. If anything, we should be spending HUGE money at first base, since that’s where the best offensive producers typically are.

          • steve (different one)

            again, i’m not necessarily against it.

            i am just saying it’s not as cut and dried as many people think.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              I’m good with that.

              • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                You… You mean nobody’s feelings are hurt? It’s like I don’t even know you guys anymore.

  • Chris A.

    I agree. We shouldn’t be worrying about their budget. They must use their resources to put a winning team on the feild .

    • steve (different one)

      and they aren’t doing that?

      they have $190M committed already.

      the point is that there IS a point where they can’t spend anymore.

      and NONE of us know what that is.

    • UWS

      Perhaps “we” shouldn’t be worrying about “their” budget, but “they” certainly should.

      • jsbrendog

        no, this is to sane and makes too much sense. please dispense with the common sense, it makes my head hurt

    • TurnTwo

      not that what they have now wouldnt put a winning team on the field, though.

      Teixeira would be the cherry on top of the sundae, though.

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        Again, long term planning says hello.

        CC, like Tex, is only partially for 2009 and more for 2010, 2011, 2012, etc.

        • TurnTwo

          dont look my way with that comment… ive wanted Cash to get Tex all along, short term or long term.

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            Yeah, not disagreeing, just stating.

  • Dillon

    Considering what’s coming off the books and the new stadium revenue the yankees would be down right stupid to not offer Tex $184mill. That is a no-brainer!

    • Blake

      Can Manny play 1st base?

    • Steve H

      So paying more money than a guy is worth for an extremely long term is a no brainer? How is a no-brainer, that they should or shouldn’t get him?

  • Manimal

    tex is the whole package. Power, Contact, Switch hitting, patience, and gold glove defense

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Good to his mother, pays his taxes early, flawless grammar and punctuation, beautiful eyes, hair smells like cinnamon.

      • UWS

        Don’t forget great skin!

      • Nady Nation

        Anchor of the top-rated local news team…

        • Mike Pop

          His apartment smells of rich mahogany, he has many leather bound books.. Simply put, hes kind of a big deal.

          • UWS

            You guys need to find another movie to quote from…

            • Mike Pop

              I dont know. Is there one that even compares to Anchorman ? Jay and Silent Bob/Step-Brothers/Dodgeball?

              • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

                Snootiche Boochies.

                I <3 Kevin Smith.

              • jsbrendog

                I dont know. Is there one that even compares to Anchorman ? Jay and Silent Bob/Step-Brothers/Dodgeball?

                no. there isn’t. but if i had to choose a new movie i would choose grandma’s boy.

                next time someone says something so far fetched and out there i will reply with: “i can feel my antlers growing”

                • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  And your new nickname shall be “Dr. Shakalu.”

            • Nady Nation

              So true

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              You guys need to find another movie to quote from…

              THIS IS GETTING RI-GOD-DAMN-DICULOUS!!!!

              • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

                Would you like a chocolate covered pretzel?

            • Mike Pop

              Cotton McKnight: I’m being told that Average Joe’s does not have enough players and will be forfeiting the championship match.
              Pepper Brooks: It’s a bold strategy, Cotton. Let’s see if it pays off for ‘em.

              • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

                PEPPER NEEDS NEW SHORTS!

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                Usually you pay double for that kind of action.

                • Mike Pop

                  He will not be able to see very well Cotton

                • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

                  Necessary? Is it necessary for me to drink my own urine?
                  Probably not.
                  No! But I do anyway ’cause it’s sterile and I like the taste.

        • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

          In other words, Mark Teixeira is…the balls.

          But seriously, my options would go like this:
          1. Tex
          2. Dunn
          3. Manny

          Get it done, Brian.

      • kimonizer

        you just had to get the grammar and punctuation jab in didn’t you.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          I’m a simple man. I enjoy simple pleasures.

  • MS

    Were not getting Tex. The Yanks don’t play coy, they throw tons of money at people and outbid teams. I would be shocked if they sneak in and get Tex. I realy think we can mark it down that he is going to Boston.

    • Balls Deep

      Yankees have done this before;damn, maybe the last one was David Justice? had to be another in between… but I can see Cash lying low and having Boras calling with last call. I’ll never be able to just mark anyone to Boston until it happens, then I’ll get into the fetal position and cry for a few hours.

      Starting pitching next year, if some of these guys stay healthy will be big… Brandon Webb stands out.

    • JeffG

      I think with Boras you have to play coy. If we used our normall approach we’d be looking at 10 years 220.

  • thisisthedavid

    Who is hitting the market next year?

    • Mike Pop
      • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

        So basically no one good, save for Holliday.

        Where does everyone think he’ll end up? If he has a good season in Oakland, he’ll be in the AL for the rest of his career. If he doesn’t do well and has an Andruw Jones-type walk year, he’ll return to the NL faster than you can say “Moneyball.”

        • Mike Pop

          Boston is they miss out on Tex

          • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

            If Jason Bay has a big year again for them, I think they’ll lock him up for a little cheaper than Holliday.

        • Steve H

          He certainly will not be aided by the trade to Oakland, his price tag will go down by the day. He’s been a solid player outside of Coors, nothing more.

          .280/.348/.455 is far from a superstar.

  • Infamous

    Id rather get Manny or Dunn on 3 years deals if they could be had.

    Id rather have ok defense at first, in Swisher, and roster flexibility with Dunn or Manny then giving a great, not a super star, 1B a long term contract.

    • Steve H

      Agreed. Tex’s road splits just scream at me. .273/.368/.502 for half of your career games shouldn’t earn you the 2nd biggest contract ever.

      • Balls Deep

        I’m just looking at 07/08… .306/.308 and 30/33 hrs… would look nice in pinstripes… great fielder, don’t need no defensive replacement, and he was money in the playoffs for angels. He CAN’T end up with Boston.

        • jsbrendog

          good pitchiong beats good hitting. in the playoffs i take cc and a healthy burnett and joba to each get texeira out.

          and we can def get there with what we have

    • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

      I think Manny should be the third option. I know he’s great but it’s just that he’s older and pretty expensive.

      Tex’s price-tag is a little too big, but I think overall, despite the latter’s flexibility, he’s a better option than Dunn because of the defense. Dunn’s defense wasn’t awful this past year but Tex’s is better.

      Whatever, I’ve been banging the Adam Dunn drum for a while and I hope the Yankees pick him up.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      While I agree with your basic premise… if you could go back in time and add Carlos Beltran for 7/119, would you?

      I love Manny, and I’d probably pick him, but I get the feeling that a few years from now, we’re going to wish we had Tex’s switch-hitting bat and premium defense giving us quality, consistent production at first year in and year out.

      And calling Tex “great but not a superstar” isn’t really fair, IMO. Sure, if you’re comparing him to Manny, he looks pedestrian… everybody looks pedestrian compared to Manny. But who are the best offensive producers in baseball today, in order?

      2008 ML leaders in wOBA:

      1 – Albert Pujols – .458
      2- Chipper Jones – .446
      3- Manny Ramirez – .432
      4- Milton Bradley – .423
      5 – Lance Berkman – .419
      6 – Matt Holliday – .418
      7 – Carlos Quentin – .414
      8 – Alex Rodriguez – .413
      9 – Mark Teixeira – .410
      10 – Ryan Ludwick – .406
      11 – Hanley Ramirez – .405
      12 – Kevin Youkilis – .402
      13 – David Wright – .397
      14 – Ian Kinsler – .393
      15 – Chase Utley – .391

      So, discounting the guys like Holliday, Bradley, and Kinsler a bit for park effects, you’ve basically got this list of best hitters in baseball:

      Super-elite otherworldly:
      #1 Pujols, #2 Manny, #3 ARod

      Absolute stud dynamite star HoF type hitters:
      #4 Chipper Jones, #5 Lance Berkman, #6 Mark Teixeira

      Really, really good hitters that can still anchor a lineup and are perennial all-stars:
      #7 Matt Holliday, #8 Carlos Quentin, #9 Hanley Ramirez, #10 David Wright, #11 Kevin Youkilis, #12 Chase Utley

      Good but serious question marks about legitimacy:
      Milton Bradley, Ryan Ludwick, Ian Kinsler

      Maybe you make your list different than me, but no matter how you cut it, Mark Teixeira is one of the top 10 hitters in all of baseball, and firmly in the group immediately after the big three. And, only one of those big three is available, and he’s a whole lot older than Tex.

      (P.S. In case you’re curious, MVP Dustin Pedroia was 24th in wOBA, with a .382… right behind Adam Dunn.)

      • Ryan S.

        Damn good post right here. wOBA became one of my favorite advanced stats after I read Neyer’s blog post about it like a month ago or so.

        • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

          wOBA, ftw.

          It’s a great stat.

  • http://mvn.com/thebronxblock/ Tom Gaffney

    Perhaps the Yanks are saving their money for outfielders next year? An outfield of Austin Jackson, Carl Crawford, and Matt Holliday trumps anything Teixeira can give you by a wide margin. A young, athletic outfield corps saves you a ton of runs, esp because none of the recent signees are exactly sinkerballers. See http://mvn.com/thebronxblock/2.....-away.html for more.

    • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

      I’m cooling off on Crawford.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      I’d prefer the outfield of Manny-Jackson-Holliday to Crawford-Jackson-Holliday.

      Plus, when Manny leaves in three years, he opens up a spot for, say, Derek Jeter?

      • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

        At that point, I doubt Derek Jeter will put up offense that is acceptable for LF.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          While you may be right, there’s little chance that Derek Jeter doesn’t get an extension, I’d say. So, he’s still going to be on this team 4 years from now, we may as well give him a place to play, and it’s not going to be 1B, it shouldn’t be DH, and it shouldn’t be SS, so LF is probably where he ends up.

          • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

            I agree that Jeter will definitely be extended and he can’t stay at a premium defensive position but we may have to suffer him at shortstop til his career is over, unless someone comes up through the system or there is a good FA available. His offense probably won’t hold up anywhere else, except the middle of the IF–or MAYBE CF if Jackson doesn’t work out and Jeter can improve his range.

            Think there’s any chance the Yankees go balls out and make a wet dream for me come true and sign Tex and Dunn? Dunn could do LF, Damon could do CF, Matsui could still DH…the D might not be great, but with that rotation and lineup….Meh, probably too much money. I’ll be happy with either one.

    • Steve H

      Holliday is not that good in the field and not very good outside of Coors. He’ll be 30 opening day 2010, so certainly not heading into his prime. No thanks.

      • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

        Actually, Holliday’s decent, if not good, in LF.

        His UZR totals
        2004 (115 games): 4.1
        2005 (123 games): 11.3
        2006 (153 games): -4.1
        2007 (157 games): 9.1
        2008 (139 games): 4.3

        Career (687 games): 24.7

        • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

          But to be fair, he was -3.14 against average in 2008 by PMR.

    • Manimal

      Carl Crawford’s option will be picked up so he is staying with the rays. Matt Holiday has bad away stats(from Coors) and hes a boras client.

  • Tim

    Supposedly it will take 184 mil to get Tex. Now I know that thats a lot of money but its not 200 mil, I hope the Yankees at least make an offer to Tex. I understand that they may just be laying low and waiting to snatch him up.

  • Mike

    I hope Cashman is a little smarter with this situation than just overbidding by 40 million again. I have a feeling Boras would rob him blind in negotiations. Not that anyone here would mind.

  • MikeD

    Theo is hardly the final say on anything the Red Sox do. He is the face of Red Sox management, but not the actual leader of the Sox. There is no more overrated GM in the game, becuase he is NOT a GM in the traditional sense.

    As for the Yankees and Texiera, let’s consider another option. The Yankees have no intention of signing Texiera because they know there ar other options over the coming years at first base and they don’t want to block the position. A-Rod may move there, or Jeter, or perhaps they’re thinking of a certain catcher down in A-ball who will be moved to first base in coming years.

    Tex is a fine player, bu there are many, many other potential players for that position in the coming seasona, either in/on the Yankees now, or on other teams. They don’t need to spend $200 milioon on Tex.

    A-Rod, when he was a free agent the first time around, was a true once-in-a-generation player. Tex is just a plyaer. No need to over pay on him.

  • Will F.

    Hey I live in colorado and Holliday is a gamer. He gave that team leadership in 07′ Denver. I saw them grow up over that Incredible run. I am a Yankee fan (father from New York} and I grew up mostly in Boston. I lived in chicago during the Buckner days and loved him and Kingman. I lived Jim ed, Fred lynn Dewey evans and I went to Yaz Day but when they blamed that series on buckner ( which won the game but calvin schiralldi and the stanley steamer should have shouldering the load I still think make those bitches pay top dollar. He doesn’t want to go there or he would have signed i texas. He would be great to have a gold glover at first but the yanks are in the best spot. Manny wants them involved and so does tex. They will have the final offer on everyone. Don’t kid yourself after the last couple weeks they both want to be yanks we just need to let the dominos fall.

    • Will F.

      Sorry A little drunk after work. Grammar and syntax not up to code.

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