RoboKen: Yanks and Dodgers talking at the meetings

Fool me once...
Former Yank Joe Gordon elected to Hall of Fame

We haven’t seen much of the Yanks entourage this morning — just one guy standing in the back of the room right now. Why is that? According to Ken Rosenthal, they’re talking to the Dodgers about Robinson Cano — and Melky Cabrera:

As the Dodgers try to resolve their infield, they are again talking to the Yankees about a trade for second baseman Robinson Cano. The teams have resumed their discussions about Cano at the winter meetings, according to one source.

The Dodgers also are interested in Yankees center fielder Melky Cabrera, and the Yankees likely would want outfielder Matt Kemp and pitching in return. The Dodgers’ interest in Cabrera is a sign that they might not be confident of Andruw Jones making a strong return in 2009. The Dodgers also need to find a match for Juan Pierre, who has requested a trade.

The Veterans’ Committee is starting their presser, so we’re going to switch gears to that. Feel free to speculate here, though.

Update (1:05 p.m.): The rumor has been debunked by Colletti. Mike and I came back from lunch (the Bellagio buffet might be the best on the Vegas strip) and there was a pack of reporters surrounding him. So the mixed reports commence here at the Winter Meetings.

Fool me once...
Former Yank Joe Gordon elected to Hall of Fame
  • jsbrendog

    ok, i dont want cano to be traded, but speculation wise, what could cano and melky bring back from LA?

    • mustang

      I want to know the same thing especially in the pitching dept.

      • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

        There was speculation earlier about Cano for Billingsley or Kershaw but it’d obviously take a lot more. I don’t want to trade Cano but I’d be a lot more open to it if one of them was involved.

        By themselves, though, I don’t know how much Cano and Melky could bring back. I wouldn’t mind having Matt Kemp one bit, though…

        Just say no to Juan Pierre, Cash.

    • Reggie C.

      Luck would have to be on the side of the Yanks for a Cano-Melky package to bring back Matt Kemp.

      Cano’s down-year is well written and publicized so his stock is down significantly. Lets not forget the media also wrote up Cano’s demeanor as a negative, so its not like there’s an intangibles (i.e., hard worker) argument that the Yanks can use. Perhaps torre knows different, but right now Cano doesn’t net anything of value from the Dodgers.

      • Reggie C.

        actually … 86 that last sentence of mine.

        Cano should bring us back Scott Elbert. I’m thinking of someone young but not on the level of Billingsley -Kershaw. Elbert is a power LHP who’s stuff is far superior than Phil Coke/ Marte, so he’s kinda wasted as a reliever. I’m not advocating the trade though. That’s selling Cano too low.

        The Dodgers would like to unload that Juan Pierre contract. I hate the idea of taking that guy on for 3 years.

        • Mike Pop

          James McDonald> Elbert right ?

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

            FWIW, according to MLB.com, no. Elbert’s #37, McDonald’s #45.

            Probably just the lefty/righty distinction, though.

      • christopher

        dont underestimate Torre’s influence on a deal including Cano. Remember that Cano was a very good rookie who turned into an allstar during torre’s watch.

        I think the dodgers would be the yankee’s best bet at getting equal value for Cano

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      but speculation wise, what could cano and melky bring back from LA?

      Some bomb-ass heroin?

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  • Conan the Barack O’Brian

    if kemp > cano, then what pitcher < melky?

    Considering the answer to that is “nothing good,” then I wonder if the Yanks could swing three guys. What about Hughes/Cano/Melky for Kershaw/Kemp?

    I don’t know how I feel about that.

    • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

      Why would you trade Hughes for pitchers who are of similar age? If Hughes is included in any deal, I’d shoot it down.

      • Conan the Barack O’Brian

        Yeah, I agree. More inclined for what Miles Roche put down under.

      • E-ROC

        Kershaw is left handed and two years younger than Hughes. I’d do that trade.

        • Mike Pop

          Idk I know Kershaw has crazy upside but so does Hughes man.

  • UWS

    Yuck. I don’t know if I can stomach Orlando Hudson for the next 4 years.

    • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

      I don’t think they’d go after him to be honest.

      • UWS

        You’d get a lot of balls through for hits to RF if you don’t put someone at 2b, though.

        • Mike Pop

          Grudzy or Lopez > Hudson… Hopefully Roberts or someone decent makes it to FA or becomes available

          • Murph1010

            “grudzy or lopez > hudson”

            this couldnt be less true

            • Mike Pop

              For our situation it is. We dont need to sign Hudson to a 4 year deal with the other options.. Grudz or Lopez could put up good enough numbers for a lot less money and could be a stopgap for us

              • Stephen

                A stopgap for who? Who’s waiting to take over at 2b?

                • Mike Pop

                  Ugh… A FA that suits up better in the future like Roberts, maybe a Polanco, or you can always go the trade route and get maybe Uggla next year.. Thats what I’m saying.. One year of Grudzy or Lopez is better than 4 years and 44 milllion going to O-dog

                • Brian

                  If we got Kemp, we could play him in CF, and then Austin Jackson could be flipped to FL for Uggla maybe.

              • andrew

                i disagree. hudson is a very good player. .295/.360 over the last 3 years… i think he is better than both lopez and grudzilanek even if we have to give him more money

                • Mike Pop

                  Ya but we cant put that 40 mill into second base when that money could instead go to Tex, CC, or Sheets. WOuld much rather see that money go to one of those guys instead of O-Dog. He’s also a type A if that matters at all.

                • Chip

                  How about moving Jeter to second and signing a SS (maybe Furcal?)

                • Mike Pop

                  Heh, we all know Jeter’s not going anywhere

                • andrew

                  well personally i rather just keep cano… but do you really think it would take 40 million to get hudson? im guessing you meant 4 years? i was thinking more along the lines of 3/25… i dont think he’ll be able to get 4/40

  • Miles Roche

    Let’s see, Cano, Melky & a top prospect for Kemp & 1 of Billingsley and Broxton?

    • Miles Roche

      After some thought, it would probably take aforementioned package plus another good prospect to net a Kemp and Billingsley. . .

    • Reggie C.

      Unless that top prospect is Phil Hughes , i don’t see why the Dodgers would erase Billingsley’s 16 wins. As good as Broxton is … why would the Dodgers move him and hurt their ‘pen?

  • daneptizl

    LAA unloads Kershaw in a salary dump to be able to retain money for Manny: Melky, Kennedy, Z-Mach. (joke, but idc if it’s not funny).

  • http://www.riveraveblues.com Joseph P.

    I hate to say this, because it pains me to even type the words, but Cash could get a better return by taking on Juan Pierre’s contract. Note that I am not endorsing this move, just bringing it up.

    • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

      If he does that, it completely negates any good move he’s ever made in his tenure as general manager. There is no reason that Juan Pierre should be a Yankee under ANY circumstances. Unless we got Billingsley, Kershaw, and Kemp along with him (read: never gonna happen) I wouldn’t take on Juan Pierre for a bag of balls.

      • steve (different one)

        yes, Pierre sucks, but if there is significant value to be had by taking him back, i don’t think we should dismiss it out of hand.

        i’d prefer taking back Andruw, since that is only a one year hit, but if taking a bad contract back nets them more talent, it could be a legitimate option.

    • Reggie C.

      That’s what i think too. Were you thinking:

      Pierre & Kemp
      for
      Cano & Melky or Gardner(?)

      Pierre wants out of LA probably b/c he knows the playing time is gone. He’d encounter the same thing here. The Yanks would likely have to trade him immediately and eat some money. I’d want Scott Elbert in on that deal too.

      • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

        I’d rather go Cano/Melky/Gardner for Kemp straight up. At least Kemp would actually play in NY. I don’t think that trade would happen and I don’t even know if I’d do that but I’d RATHER do it than getting Juan Pierre.

      • Ron

        That’s a horrible trade for the Yanks, and would totally invalidate Cashman’s desire for roster flexibility, as Pierre is due $28.5 mil over the next 3 years. Also, how the hell is Kemp that much better than Cano? Looking at their careers stats, they look pretty similar to me.

        • Mike Pop

          If you get a young stud like McDonald in return it is well worth it.

  • christopher

    if it meant getting back kershaw with kemp – could you see the yankees offering up Cano and Melky or Gardner plus taking on the Pierre contract? An old school Yankee move.

    Unfortunatly I could not see either team doing that. Andy Torre must be their impetus behind their interest in Melky. After all – he did like melky a lot

    • Mike Pop

      Id even take on Pierre’s contract if it meant getting James Mcdonald back

  • mustang

    “Billingsley breaks leg, has surgery: Dodgers SP Chad Billingsley had surgery on Saturday after fracturing his leg in a fall at his Pennsylvania home. Team spokesman Josh Rawitch said that the 24-year-old Billingsley slipped on ice outside his house in Reading, Pa., and suffered a spiral fracture of the fibula in his left leg on Friday. He had surgery to put a plate in and will be in a cast for two weeks. Rawitch said the surgery went as expected and Billingsley should be ready to throw by spring training. ”

    He probably will be fine, but can’t he even be trade ? I don’t know if I would trade for him who know what he is going to be like after this.

    • A.D.

      He broke his leg… it’s not that big a deal

      • mustang

        Your probably right, but still pitchers are strange things. Arm slots, release points and all that i don’t know.

      • christopher

        not necessarily – we have seen pitchers with leg injuries winding up with arm problems because they alter their delivery. Player puts less stress on the leg and more on the arm. I am not sure if Billingsley uses his legs much when pitching – like clemens – or even which leg it is, but I could see this having an effect on his season next year even if it just because he will not be able to work out too rigorously this off-season

        • mustang

          That’s my point, but maybe you can him for cheaper because of all that I would take the chance.

          • A.D.

            If you could get him for cheaper its worth it… worst case he misses a few weeks to begin the season to make sure he’s at 100% full strength.

    • http://www.riveraveblues.com Mike A.

      Yeah, he can still be traded, but there’s some big process about it. The Yanks have to be aware of it and their doctors have to look him over, stuff like that. I don’t know what exactly it entails, but an injured player can be traded.

      • Mike Pop

        I would still want Bills.. He is too good to pass up

        • andrew

          unfortunately the dodgers know this as well… the chances of us getting billngsley and kemp without including a hughes/cano package is probably minimal

          • Mike Pop

            I agree

            • andrew

              dare to dream.

  • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

    I think Matt Kemp is being overrated a bit; truthfully, the dude is a corner outfielder playing center field. He is good, young and projectable, but I feel that the gap between the tandem of Robinson Cano and Austin Jackson, and the tandem of Matt Kemp and Orlando Hudson, is more beneficial to the organization in the future than the latter duo might be in the present.

    • http://actyankee.blogspot.com Matt

      Agreed. Despite what I said above (which I probably wouldn’t even do anyway), I wouldn’t want a trade to the Dodgers unless Billingsley and/or Kershaw was involved.

      Patience is a virtue and I think Austin Jackson is worth waiting for.

    • A.D.

      I agree, the issue with trading Cano is there is no heir apparent at 2B and no excellent candidates on FA market. If we had another 2B in the system it might make sense

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      Co-sign with everything Jamal, Matt, and A.D. just said.

      Cano for Kemp only makes sense if we have a good young middle-infielder prospect ready to make the jump to the majors soon, and no good centerfielder prospects. We have the exact opposite.

      This idea is silly.

      • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

        Yeah, I think that’s the biggest factor people overlook when evaluating trade proposals/rumors. Sure, the meat of any deal is the players involved, but a significant portion of any movement in personnel is how it will affect the overall health of the roster in the present, and in the future.

        Although you can argue Matt Kemp over Robinson Cano (although I wouldn’t, it can be argued presently and in the future), there’s no way you can argue having Kemp and Orlando Hudson’s contract and soon-to-be (12/12/77), 31-year-old body over Robinson Cano and Austin Jackson in the future.

        Lastly, it’s not only about having Hudson’s declining skill-set for the next four seasons, but who his replacement will be after his contract is up. Kemp’s value over Cano’s is not worth all the potential headaches this organization will endure trying to replace a 26-year-old second basemen is currently in the midst of a brilliant start to his career (first four years of his career has seen him post 50+ XBH which started when he was 22; I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: That’s fucking amazing.).

  • Bill

    If the Yankes trade Cano for Kemp there is also a savings about 5 Million in payroll they could use on Hudson or somebody else.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Mr. Snarky Irrelevant Non Sequitur Jones

      …which is instantly negated by the fact that Cano makes more money because we signed him to a long term deal to buy out his arbitration years, something we’d likely soon be doing to Kemp.

      Money wise, if there’s a difference between the two, there won’t be for long.

      Moot point.

  • Mike

    Cano/Melky/Matsui/P – prospect?
    for
    Kemp/Kershaw or Billingsly/Pierre or Jones

    I think I like it for the Yanks.

    Kemp is the answer for CF, 1 or 2 starter for the future and free up some cash for LA (bat or speed off the bench).

    Cano is good, but can be replaced (O-Dog)
    Melky is ok but Kemp will be better
    Matsui is a push for the contracts that we are getting back.
    We might need to give up a prospect to get this done.

    Thoughts?

    • Ron

      Why do people think that Matsui would have any value to ANY team, let alone a NL team? The only team Matsui has value to is the Yanks.

      For a second, imagine you are a fan of the Dodgers. How would you feel if your GM traded for a 35 year old OF earning $13 mil and coming off 2 knee surgeries in the past year? (Well, considering your GM is Ned Colletti, you probably wouldn’t be surprised. Pissed, but not surprised.)

  • Jacob

    I really think this would be selling too low on Cano. Would anyone have done this deal when Cano was coming off of the season of hitting .342? He slumped last year and it was painfully obvious to everyone, even more so because he was in New York. Kemp is a young, talented player. But he is what he is, a corner outfielder that isn’t that much different than Cano except he’s cheaper and plays a position that is less valuable defensively. I wouldn’t do Cano for Kemp straight up. If we could include McCallister and Coke or someone like that and get Kershaw/Billingsly then I’d do that. But that will never happen.

    IMO, if we wait on Jackson then Jackson and Cano > Kemp and Hudson/Lopez/Grudz/etc

    • Brian

      Kemp’s more natural position is CF.

      Does that change your opinion?

  • http://incumbentgm.wordpress.com Joltin’ Joe

    I wouldn’t trade Cano for Kemp straight up, and neither would the Dodgers. He would not be the answer in CF defensively-speaking, and it never really makes any sense to trade up-the-middle players for corner guys in my opinion. That being said, if they like Melky (!) and are looking to dump some salary, I’d like to bring in Kemp/Elbert/Jones for something like Cano/Melky/McAllister(?). There is no reason the Yanks should feel the need to make this swap without getting one of Kershaw/Billingsley/Elbert/McDonald. They can do nothing and still be in good shape.

  • Rich M.

    Do the Dodgers even have the pitching depth to give up a Billingsly or a Kershaw? They are struggling to find money for Manny, cant afford to resign Furcal, and have Maddox, Penny, and Lowe leaving. Who does that leave for the rotation?

  • Chip

    I wouldn’t do Cano/Melky for Kemp

    I would do Cano/Melky/prospect in the IPK, Aceves, Z-Mac group for Kemp/either Billingsley or Kershaw/Pierre

    None of us can say how the two GMs value these guys but I’d be quite fine with that as a fan. I would not however want to depart with Coke in almost any deal. I feel like he could be a number 2 starter in the Pettite mold, I just love that guy

    • Mike Pop

      I like him too but he is no #2 starter my friend

      • Chip

        Hey man, I can dream. Besides, a lefty with a 2.95 BB/9 and 7.50 K/9 in his minor league career is alway welcome in my rotation. I really think he has the stuff to do it if he can get the change-up going

        • Mike Pop

          I know man

  • nolan

    What about Cano/Melky/Nady/Kennedy
    for Kemp, Kershaw?

    We would really only be giving up on Cano. Everyone else is replaceable/overvalued. Kemp would be a stop gap in CF for a year. If we sign Tex, Orlando Hudson and and CC then Swisher moves to RF and we have a lineup of
    Damon (lf), Jeter, Tex (1b), Arod, Matsui (dh), Kemp (cf), Posada, Swisher (rf), Hudson (2b)
    and a rotation of
    CC, Wang, Pettitte, Joba, Kershaw, Hughes, Aceves.

    Thats a huge upgrade over last year and our bullpen is already much improved

  • Baseballnation

    If Cano and kemp are dealt, I’d imagine other names would have to be thrown around. Could we be looking at a mega blockbuster deal? Cano, Cabrera, Kennedy, Melancon, for Kemp, Kershaw?

  • Mike Pop

    They did not resume talks