That other Brewers’ outfielder

Fun with Bill James' projections: The Lineup
How to spend hundreds of millions without even trying

The Yanks have been hot on Brewers’ centerfielder Mike Cameron this offseason, at least until the deal was deemed “officially dead” last week. With Brett Gardner unproven and Melky Cabrera perpetually underperforming (see, I was nice about it), it’s hard to blame the Yanks for seeking out a short term upgrade until Austin Jackson is ready. With Cammy off the board, perhaps the Yanks should turn their attention to another 2008 Brewers’ outfielder: Gabe Kapler.

Most Yankees’ fans probably remember Kapler from his exploits with the Red Sox, particularly during their 2004 World Series season. He played for the Yomiuri Giants in 2005, then returned for another season in Boston before serving a tour of duty as manager of the Low-A Greenville Drive (BoSox affiliate) in 2007. The itch to play returned, and he spent 2008 as the Brewers’ fourth outfielder/primary right handed pinch hitter.

Boy was that a smart decision. Kapler hit .301-.340-.498, setting career highs with a 117 OPS+ and .362 wOBP. He did most of his damage against southpaws (.354-.379-.622) and was money off the bench, hitting .323-.364-.548 as a pinch hitter. A .757 career OPS guy, Kapler’s also a tough at-bat, averaging 3.94 P/PA since 2003. He doesn’t draw as many walks as that number might lead you to believe however, and he struggles against breaking balls.

Defensively, Kapler’s good in all three outfield spots (he was unreal in center last year, posting a .945 RZR and 33.2 UZR/150) and has a strong arm. Maintaining his career average of 0.8 UZR/150 would be perfectly acceptable for a part time player. He’s also a tremendous person and clubhouse guy, which only continues the under-the-radar theme of bringing in “chemistry guys” this offseason.

Last year Kapler settled for a minor league deal that paid him $800,000 when he made the team, but this year he’ll be looking for a guaranteed roster spot and maybe even a full-time gig. He missed the last two weeks of the season and the NLDS when he tore his lat on a throw to the plate, so that’s something that has to be checked out in any predeal physical. The beauty of signing a guy like this is that you could still play Gardner every day while using Kapler against tough lefties and off the bench late in games. As far as Melky … well I dunno, I hope he enjoys Scranton.

KLaw ranked G-Kap the 35th best free agent in the class (subscription req’d), and when the alternatives are Willy Taveras, Corey Patterson and a not physically able to play everyday Rocco Baldelli, how do you not at least give Kapler a phone call? Quality bench players go a long way.

email
Fun with Bill James' projections: The Lineup
How to spend hundreds of millions without even trying
  • jsbrendog

    dude you guys continue to blow me away. this is a great piece and he seems like he would be a great addition.

    I am totally RAB biased by anything you guys write. please do not write anything asking me to steal, cheat on my taxes/loved ones, or commit any other felonies.

    • Ryan S.

      Ditto on what jsbrendog said.

      This guy was totally off my FA radar, but he’d make a damn good 4th OF. If we end up with Manny or Dunn it isn’t a move we need to make, but if we get Tex (or no one else), it would make a ton of sense.

  • Bill

    Why we want this guy when there so many better available options out there.

    • jsbrendog

      who’s better? and who is better that will sign for that much?

      tavares sucks, patterson sucks, cameron is expensive. why pay fuil time pay for a part time player?

      kapler is exactly what this team could use, someone who has proven they can sit and waste away on a bench for 5 days and then be productive when he plays that 6th or/and 7th day. he wants to play and after being a manager and out of the game one would think he’s just happy to be around and will do what’s neccessary to help a team win (which, unlike a lot of other guys who might be like that does not include sucking ass)

      • Matt

        The best option out there was Cameron and Cashman blew that. Supposedly the Brewers had agreed to take Melky and Igawa, but Cashman pulled out of the deal because he didn’t want to pay much of Igawa’s salary. What does Igawa make a year, $5 million? SO what, you pay 3 million of that? That wasn’t good enough?

        IDK. The reports are that Melky is doing well in winter ball, so maybe we don’t really need anybody else. You are also forgetting that Swisher is also an OF and while he’ll play primarily at First, he could also spell any one of the OF positions.

        The Yanks should sign Pettitte for the 4th rotation spot, let hughes take the 5th spot. Move Joba back to set up, prepping him to take over for Mo in 2 years or so. Then you go out and sign Giambi to a reduced salary contract (which he said he was willing to take in order to return to the Yanks).

        Starting Lineup:
        LF – Damon
        CF – Gardner/Melky Platoon
        RF – Nady
        1B – Swisher
        2B – Cano
        SS – Jeter
        3B – ARod
        C – Posada
        DH – Matsui/Giambi

        Rotation:
        1 – CC
        2 – Wang
        3 – AJ
        4 – Pettitte
        5 – Hughes

        Long and Short Relief:
        Marte, Ramirez, Bruney, Veras, Aceves

        Setup:
        Joba

        Closer:
        Rivera

        • jsbrendog

          Move Joba back to set up

          this is where i stopped reading.

        • http://www.sportinggurus.com Adam

          You made a couple mistakes.

          1B-Teixeira
          DH-Manny

          5-Chamberlain
          6-Hughes

          Setup: Veras/Ramirez, it’s not smart to insist on such labels. It’s whatever and then Mariano for the bullpen. Girardi understands that.

    • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

      For the role that has been defined (semi-regular outfielder that can handle all three spots, and has a better-than-average, patient bat), name ‘em.

    • Moshe Mandel

      Really? Unless Baldelli is really healthy, I do not see a better bench piece out there- good defense, some speed, tough at bat. What is not to like?

      • jsbrendog

        plus he’s got the former minor league manager thing going which might (and might be a load of bullshit, just conjecturing here) help out with his interaction with guys like melky and gardner

        • Mike Pop

          If he wasnt minor league manager of the year I wont no part with him.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      Bill says:
      December 22nd, 2008 at 2:12 pm

      Why we want this guy when there so many better available options out there.

      Nice comment, Bill. Compelling, and rich.

      Well, that’s gonna do it for all of us here at the Channel 4 News Team. I’m Ron Burgundy… You stay classy, San Diego.

      • Barry

        Where’d you get that comment? The toilette store?

  • http://www.myspace.com/earlweaverplaque Ace

    I watch a lot of Brewers baseball (hey, they are my National League team) and Kapler had a great year for them last year. it was a shame when he got hurt. I agree that he would be a fine addition not only to the Yanks but any team. He goes about his business regardless of his role.

    • jsbrendog

      remember when they were an american league team? its so long ago.

      i was looking at my door to my room from wheni was a kid and i had all the stickers of all the teams laid out in their respective east and west divisions. When i saw it i was like, wtf is that? Ohhhh right. haha

  • Barry

    Don’t worry about Melky, he’ll have a good time here in the Scranton area.

    • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

      I think Dunder Mifflin is hiring.

      • Mike Pop

        I LoLed at this

  • Moshe Mandel

    The real problem would be if Cash brings Kapler in as part of a platoon with Gardner and calls it a day in CF. Kapler is a nice player, but he’s not who I want out there regularly, and neither is Gardner.

    • http://www.myspace.com/earlweaverplaque Ace

      Austin Jackson should be ready in 2010 to take over in CF. Why not let Garder and Kapler platoon for 1 year?

    • Ryan S.

      And Mike Cameron is? Just take into context the current FA / trade market, and the fact that we have a highly touted CF prospect who should be ready for a full time role with the team in 2010.

      • Moshe Mandel

        Yeah, I think Cameron remains an above average offensive center fielder, and is better defensively than both Kapler and Gardner. With the lineup that the Yankees have, I think the idea is more one of establishing a deep lineup with no holes than one with tons of sluggers. Cameron fulfills that goal, Gardner/Kapler doesn’t.

        • Ryan S.

          The guy has 0 upside though. Its just trading the devil you know for the devil you don’t know … except that the devil you know costs $10,000,000 that could instead go to the pursuit of a better FA that can provide way more lineup depth.

          I know I was the one who brought up Mike Cameron to begin with, but the entire crux of this suggestion based on the assumption that a deal for him is dead anyway. Still, wouldn’t you rather have Manny/Tex/Dunn + a platoon of Gardner/Kapler than just have Mike Cameron?

          • Slugger27

            again, the money for mike cameron has nothing to do with the possibility of signing manny or tex

            yes, i know cameron stands to make 10 mill and that is about 40% of what would potentially go into manny or tex’s 2009 salary, but it still doesnt really make sense to me that signing cameron would deter them from signing manny or tex

            the problem is the 150 mill that would be owed to tex AFTER 2009, thats what the organization is debating… clearly, they would sign tex to a 1/23 deal for 09… thats why i think 09 payroll doesnt have some set-in-stone figure that signing cameron would threaten

            so when u say “…. cost 10 mill that could instead go to the pursuit of a better FA” i tend to disagree that acquiring cameron and signing an 8/180 deal for tex or 3/75 deal for manny are in any way correlated

            • Ryan S.

              The Yanks appear to be at least somewhat payroll sensitive. Cameron + Pettitte = $20,000,000 = no more FA deals this year. I agree, we can get one or the other plus another big time FA like Tex/Ramirez, but I don’t think we’d get all 3. For my money, I think Pettitte and Manny/Tex is the way to go. A guy like Kapler, his salary is irrelevant, we can sign him regardless of the other moves we make.

              Seems like the most well-rounded way to go about doing things to me.

              • whozat

                “The Yanks appear to be at least somewhat payroll sensitive. Cameron + Pettitte = $20,000,000 = no more FA deals this year.”

                There’s no evidence that this is true. The only free-agent deals you’re considering here are Tex’s looooong deal and signing manny for huge dollars into his decline years. And I think they’re hesitant to sign those deals regardless of Pettitte/Cameron. That, at least, makes sense. Why would they be so hesitant to have a big payroll in 2009, a year in which they get huge revenue-sharing breaks?

                Seems to me that the Yanks are waiting for the bat market to collapse in the wake of the Tex signing and go shopping in January for a bat like Dunn or Burrell or maybe even Giambi or Abreu on a shorter, cheaper deal.

                • Ryan S.

                  The Yanks have stressed the desire to reduce payroll, so I feel uncomfortable making projections/assumptions for anything that puts us significantly passed the 2008 number. The moves I’m calling for would already put us at or a little higher than the 2008 payroll, and it feels like I’d be verging on fantasy to put even more weight on it.

                • Ryan S.

                  I like your thought on waiting for the bat market to collapse, you could be onto something. Still, Manny and Tex are a different level of player than the tier 2 bats out there. If we do go for a tier 2 guy, I hope its Dunn.

              • Slugger27

                my argument isnt that kaplers salary is irrelevant… when regarding tex/manny OF COURSE its irrelevant….

                my argument is that hes just not very good, and wed be better served saving a 40man spot and just going with melky/gardner in CF or occasionally damon/swisher

                “wouldn’t you rather have Manny/Tex/Dunn + a platoon of Gardner/Kapler than just have Mike Cameron?”

                this implies that the measley 10 mill owed to cameron could prevent them from the 8 year investment mark teixeria, and i think thats totally wrong…. they have nothing to do with each other… cameron is 1 year, 10 mill, next year hes gone… after next year, tex will be owed 7/140 still… that 140 mill or mannys deal i dont think is in any way depending on whether or not they sign mike cameron….. mike cameron should not be the reason not to sign either of those guys

                • Ryan S.

                  I just don’t see the Yanks having a payroll of around $220M+ this year. I’m not the one who is saying they want to reduce payroll, that’s straight outta the organization’s mouth. I’m basing my evaluations and thoughts on the parameters that are being laid out to me.

                • Slugger27

                  no i agree with that… what im saying is that i think the yanks would clearly sign either of those guys for 22-24 mill on a 1 year salary…. so my thinking is that while their overall goal is to lower payroll, the 1 yr 10 mill commitment to cameron wouldnt be the reason they didnt sign tex or manny if they otherwise wanted to… if that makes sense

                  in other words… their overall plan is to lower payroll, but i dont think they have some set in stone number they cant go over for 2009, and if making the team immensely better in the long term means going over what they wanted for 09, they would do it

                • Ryan S.

                  I really really get the impression that they want payroll reduced starting this year, but yes, they don’t have a number set in stone, and yes, they’d probably be willing to go slightly over 2008’s level for the right player(s). But I don’t think Cameron is that player, especially if they go after Pettitte and some big bat. They might as well let Cabrera and Gardner duke it out at that point.

          • Moshe Mandel

            If they are serious about Manny or Tex, AND getting Cameron would preclude them from pursuing one of those two, then I agree with you. Regardless, if they do bring in one of those guys and make no trades, Damon would be in center anyhow, not Gardner.

            • Ryan S.

              Like I said before, getting Cameron stops us from getting Pettitte and one of those other 2.

              Getting Tex or Manny, especially Manny, would indeed put Damon in center for a good amount of time, but you’d still be mixing up the lineup a lot and putting in defensive subs, so you’ll still need 1 or 2 actual CFs.

        • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

          Yeah, I think Cameron remains an above average offensive center fielder, and is better defensively than both Kapler and Gardner.

          Cameron may be better than Kapler in CF (but not by a great deal).

          Gardner is much better than both of them.

          • Moshe Mandel

            Not according to Keith Law.

            Victor (NYC): It looks like the Mike Cameron trade to NY is on life support, at the very least. We all know Cameron, even with his .330obp is a tremendous increase over our AAAA youngsters, but how much of a downgrade defensively is Gardner/Melky from Cameron?

            Keith Law: I’d say at least half a win. Possibly more.

            Stack (NJ): Not sure if you’ve seen much of Gardner but defensively he’s not far off from Cameron.

            Keith Law: I have. He’s not close to Cameron.

        • Old Ranger

          Bull Sh–! Show me the proof of this outlandish statement. Brett is a much better CF the any 35 year old, let alone one declining. 27/09.

  • D.B.H.O.F. the word conservationist

    So we want more roiders on this team? This guy was HUGE, MLB starting testing better he ran off to Japan. Came back and he is a lil guy?

    Sorry but I would rather rock with what we got.

    • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

      So much for tangible evidence.

      • D.B.H.O.F. the word conservationist

        Sorry Jamal, I do not have a urine sample on the guy (or anybody else for that matter). But come on there Jamal, seriously buddy come on.

        • andrew

          maybe his height and weight would be a start though…

    • Slugger27

      cant believe im sayin this, but yea i agree with u donnie…. pass on kap

      • Slugger27

        for the record… my agreement with u is not at all based on his alleged steroid use ((though i would agree its pretty suspicious))… more just that i dont think hes a very good player, even in a platoon situation

        gardners biggest problem is lack of power… kaps career slugging of .425 suggests power is also his biggest problem, not to mention his home run totals seem to be declining…. and his career ops+ of 92 just doesnt cut it with me, even in a limited role

        • D.B.H.O.F. the word conservationist

          I really do not care if you agree, disagree or whatever. I am not a fan of the man on many levels.

          Grown men do not lose that much muscle mass that quickly without having cancer or some other horrible disease, unless something shady had been going on.

          • jsbrendog

            dude, so what? half if not mroe of our current team did steroids. GET THE FUCK OVER IT. mroe than half of baseball did. so what. its over move on build a bridge and get over it.

            he is someone that ca help the current team and is a LOW RISK HIGH REWARD signing. for 800,000 if he sucks you cut him, sa la vie have a nice life who cares. but if he does well like he did in limited time last yr then there is the productivity and balance off of the bench that you are looking for.

        • jsbrendog

          you dont think he is a very good player ina platoon? can you read? im sorry that was wrong let me rephrase. did you read the above post? the numbers he put up in part time are extremely good for part time. and the price tag is so low that if he bombs you DFA him like ensberg and good riddance. this is a no risk high upside move.

          and i have absolutely nothing to say to donnies comments other than THANK GOD he didnt try to give him a stupid nickname like roid rage kapler or something.

          • Slugger27

            “this is a no risk, high upside move”

            high upside?? hes 33 ((will turn 34 during the season)) and his career high ops+ is 117 and thats in 230 at bats…. his power has seemingly been zapped from his body since 2001

            in 04, 05, and 06 he slugged considerably less than melky did in 06 and 07… in those same 3 years he ops+ of 77, 65, 77… i realize those are individually small sample sizes, but if u add up all 3 thats nearly a full season of total futility… melky in 06 and 07 had ops+ of 95, 89…. lets not forget ((and i HATE being this guy)) but his one “good” year in the last 5 was in the nl centrla, not the al east

            im not defending melky… but my honest opinion (and i admit opinion) is that if both were given 500 at bats in the al east in 09, that melky would have better numbers

            therefore, i dont think kap is worth any money or a spot on the 40man… and i CERTAINLY dont see it as a “high upside” move by any stretch of the imagination

            • jsbrendog

              he. will. be. a platoon. player. at 800000 it is no risk (cut him if he sucks) and high reward (he does well as a platoon player and comes through the few times he plays or bats and plays good defense when he is in the field)

              dude, why do i have to spell this out for people

              hes not gonna be a fucking starter for christs sake

    • jsbrendog

      So we want more roiders on this team? This guy was HUGE, MLB starting testing better he ran off to Japan. Came back and he is a lil guy?

      this is def facepalm worthy

    • Glen L

      … I don’t know if you’ve saw him last season .. but little guy is one of the last ways i would describe him .. he’s still jacked to all hell

      • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald

        I know he put some of it back on but when he reappeared with the Sox after his lil trip in Japan he was tiny.

  • deezer

    ROIDS! hey, it’s all speculation, but he certainly looked the part. and that one-year sabbatical was interesting. verducci wrote about how certain players were leaving the game for a season, juicing up, then un-retiring. no names, but i assumed he was referring to t percival. but kapler fits the profile too.

    • D.B.H.O.F. the word conservationist

      I did not see that article but I would like to. The whole PED issue is still being swept under the rug.

      For you numbers guys out there, I would think this should bother you very much as baseball is broken down like no other sport and with all these frauds out there it should really mess with those 1’s and 0’s.

      • whozat

        Funny, it seems to bother “traditionalists” like you a lot more.

        People who are into stats also tend to be pragmatic, logical people. Mostly, all we have is speculation. There’s also the whole specter of amphetamines that have a HUGE impact on guys’ gameplay, but no effects that are visible on TV. So…it doesn’t really make sense for me to get cranky about guys who were on roids if I can’t also get cranky about guys who were on speed…and I don’t have any idea who was on speed, so…I can either turn away from everything that’s happened in baseball since the 60’s, or not.

        • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald

          “I can either turn away from everything that’s happened in baseball since the 60’s, or not.”

          So you are saying you are just trying away from everything? That would make you a person who is not looking all the available evidence, correct?
          Or are you saying because you can not quantify each players use or non use of PEDs, that you choose to not go down that road at all?

          I think just because there is some info you do not have, that you just do not throw away the available info. That seems to be what you are doing.

          Just like my eyes can tell me if a guy is a good player or not, my eyes can also tell me if there is obviously something wrong with a man growing a few inches when he is over 25, or a man in his 30’s head all of a sudden growing a hat size or two. Or a grown man who all of a sudden has his feet grow a size and a half. That is all info, just because Bill James does not chart it does not mean it does not exist.

          I actually think it is foolish to NOT take this stuff into consideration when doing projections. Really that is the main reason why stats are kept. Stats are kept for records, but really the money behind keeping stats is put into it so you can project what a player may do in the future right?

      • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

        The whole PED issue is still being swept under the rug.

        As it probably should. Steroids was so widespread that there’s no way to allow it to tarnish any one player. All of baseball is tarnished.

        But you can’t validate/invalidate the numbers or players because of it. Pitchers were doing it, hitters were doing it, stars were doing it, scrubs were doing it. It’s an era that happened, and we move on. It’s like the dead ball era or the expansion era or the WWII era or the raised mound era or the pre-Jackie Robinson era… the game changed and it affected stuff, but you still just add up the production and put in in the record book and move on.

        • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald

          Tommie I actually agree with everything you said but the fact that it was an era.

          It still IS the era we live in and it makes me sick.

          I also do not agree it should be swept under the rug, everything else I agree with what you said, but I still would prefer to stay away from guys I think are roiders.

          • whozat

            But you have no way of telling who did amphetamines, so despite the fact that they’ve been just as widespread (if not more so) in the game for a LOT longer…that doesn’t impact your comfort level with signings the Yanks make?

            • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald

              “that doesn’t impact your comfort level with signings the Yanks make?”

              How can it? I get called illogical all the time on here but the same people who tell me that think it is logical to throw away what is visible? I can tell when something is so far out of whack that is not natural. Now I am sure half of the guys that did and are doing roids it is something that you can not just see, but for the guys who I can tell JUST by looking at them, I do not want them.

              I use to get in fights with people about Big Mac and Sosa. The same people that loved all those fake homers, are now mad (or were for the week that the congressional hearings were going on)
              I can not ignore the obvious guys. The ones who are not obvious, I can not really say anything about them right?

              • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                I get called illogical all the time on here but the same people who tell me that think it is logical to throw away what is visible?

                We’re not asking you to throw away what is visible. As usual, we’re asking you to supplement what’s visible with what’s logical.

                What’s visible is, Gabe Kapler and Mike Cameron and Andy Pettitte used PED’s. What’s logical is, gigantic swaths of baseball players all used all types of PED’s, and that it’s so rampant and widespread that it’s not something that you can hold Kapler, Cameron, and Pettitte particularly accountable for. If one kid is failing, he’s responsible. If the whole class is failing, the teacher is responsible. If everybody is cheating on their taxes and getting back more money from the government, you’re putting your family at a financial (and competitive disadvantage) by not ALSO cheating on your taxes so that you’re armed with the same financial security as your neighbors… otherwise, they’re going to get the car loan and the mortgage that you want and you’re going to be left walking to your slum apartment.

                The entire league cheated… hence, it’s not actually cheating. It’s wrong, but only wrong on a societal level, not on an individual level. Because it was essentially condoned.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald

                  “The entire league cheated… hence, it’s not actually cheating.”

                  You are wrong about that. It is in fact cheating. IF, half the guys did PEDs that still makes 50 percent of guys not cheaters.

                  Just because the players association and the owners condoned it, does not make it right or not cheating.

                • Mike Pop

                  If a teacher allows all the students to work on a test together, is that cheating ? The questions of life

                • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  “If a teacher allows all the students to work on a test together, is that cheating ? The questions of life”

                  Bad example. That is definitely not cheating, since it’s allowed by the ruling authority (in this case, the teacher).

                • Mike Pop

                  But he said is the PA and owners condone it. Condone means making something acceptable I believe. In my scenario the teacher is saying its acceptable.

                • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  “We’re not asking you to throw away what is visible. As usual, we’re asking you to supplement what’s visible with what’s logical.”

                  Actually, I disagree with you here. DBHOF is right when he says “IF, half the guys did PEDs that still makes 50 percent of guys not cheaters>” The TSJC/DBHOF dichotomy here is not a question of logic, but one of interpretation. TSJC – I’m on your side, I don’t really care much about all the PED stuff, but you really can’t fault someone (DBHOF) for caring (or, at the very least, you can fault them but you can’t call them illogical) DBHOF’s position isn’t illogical, it’s just a different interpretation and emotional reaction.

                • Mike Pop

                  I know my scenario is not the same thing obviously but its what I thought of so “back up off me” son.

                • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  “But he said is the PA and owners condone it. Condone means making something acceptable I believe. In my scenario the teacher is saying its acceptable.”

                  But that’s incorrect. Under the CBA the players were never allowed to use illegal substances. They were not “allowed” to use steroids, there just wasn’t a testing/punishment system in place. Your teacher/student example would make sense if you said: “If passing answers to other students is ‘cheating,’ and students pass answers to one another on an exam but the teacher neglects to be in the room at the time and doesn’t ask each student if he/she passed answers to other students, is what the students did ‘cheating?'” And the answer is yes, it is cheating.

                • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  “I know my scenario is not the same thing obviously but its what I thought of so “back up off me” son.”

                  You’re right… Your example is inaccurate, but it’s the first thought that shot through your mind and you didn’t bother to think about it further before posting it, so I shouldn’t respond. My bad.

                • Mike Pop

                  Just back up off me son

                • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  “Just back up off me son”

                  Oh… Well when you pit it THAT way… You’re right, my bad.

            • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

              List of guys who likely used amphetamines:

              1) Every Yankee player ever, including your respective favorites (like Don Mattingly, Bernie Williams, Derek Jeter, Mickey Mantle, Bobby Murcer, Tino Martinez, Dave Winfield, Mariano Rivera, Andy Stankiewicz, Jim Leyritz, Ed Whitson, Mel Stottlemyre, Lyle Mouton, Melvin Crousett, and Raul Mondesi.)

              • Mike Pop

                IM NOT HEARING THIS, IM NOT HEARING THIS!!!!! How could you say this??? You poopmouth, with poop out your mouth.

              • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald

                This is more than reckless on your part. I know you are trying to make a point, but you are trying to make a point to somebody who already understands and has said that much.

                Again, guys who are visibly and obviously cheating or have cheated I do not want on this team. Naming random Yankees does nothing and seems rather silly.

                Also if Tino ever did amphetamines, he should get his money back.

              • Andy In Sunny Daytona

                Melvin Croussett does NOT use amphetamines. He chews the leaf of the coca plant. For some reason, that gives him all the energy he needs.

                BTW, Melmas is December 28th I’m so excited.

              • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                “List of guys who likely used amphetamines:

                1) Every Yankee player ever, including your respective favorites (like Don Mattingly, Bernie Williams[…] and Raul Mondesi.)

                You dirty motherf*cker. I demand satisfaction, sir.

              • jsbrendog

                LYLE MOUTON NEVER USED AMPHETAMINES!!! YOU take that back!!!

              • pounder

                Lyle Mouton ?…no…no…oh the humanity!

          • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

            But for every known “roider”, there’s about 5 or 10 unknown “roiders”. If you want to not sign a guy because of him usind PEDs in the past, we may as well just stop signing players altogether.

            How do you know CC and Burnett didn’t use? How do we know Beckett and Lackey or Pujols and Howard and Utley aren’t users?

            The whole era is affected. You’ve got to put it behind you, dude.

            • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald

              “How do you know CC and Burnett didn’t use? How do we know Beckett and Lackey or Pujols and Howard and Utley aren’t users?”

              I do not know. But for the guys that it is painfully obvious I would prefer them not on my team. If I ran a 7-11 and I knew people were stealing from it I would not close it down, but I would make an attempt to deter the people I KNEW were stealing from coming in my store.

              As for the guys you named I have my thoughts on all of them. I could be wrong but the two that we signed do not have the tell tale signs of guys doing roids or HGH. They both could be, but if I had to bet I would say they did not. As for the other names on your list I suspect at least a couple of them are dirty. There are guys on this current Yanks team who were never caught but I think are / were doing some funny medicine.

              • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald

                And for the record I am done talking on this whole topic. I care not to mar my holiday season with anymore talk that has ANYTHING to do with Gaybe Kapler.

                • Mike Pop

                  I get it Gaybe Kapler.

                  Because he’s gay ! You guys get it ? You get it guys ?

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald

                  Actually that was just a mistake on my part. Both Gaybe and Gabe are spellings of the same name. Sorry it you were somehow offended, but I did not mean it as some sort of joke.

                • Mike Pop

                  Sorry it you were somehow offended

                  I get it, your saying Im gay. Funny stuff

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald

                  Not sure why you are such an ass. You seemed like it bothered you for whatever reason, and I said sorry if it did.
                  Relax, take a breath and back up off me.

                • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  Mike Pop – I think you missed the point of DBHOF’s apology.

                  DBHOF – You know someone named “Gaybe?” Really? I call BS.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald

                  Mondesi, actually an older gentleman I use to work with was named Gaybe. Nice man and not even homosexual as far as I know. Who’d a thunk it?

                • Mike Pop

                  Im not on you. But you take the steroid thing way too hard. Tommie explained it as good as you can but you refuse to even wanna deal with ex-roiders, when he even told you most of your favorite players probably did them which he is probably correct on.

                • http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/profile.php?id=594331910&ref=name Jamal G.

                  I enjoyed this comment.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald

                  Seriously if you were more on me I could get a restraining order.

                  I know you are a disciple to Tommie and all that, I get it. But most of my favorite players I am willing to be did not do roids. If some of them did, they would no longer be my favorite players.

                  You may say I take the whole roid thing too hard but know this. I have in recent years dealt with youth baseball and one family member as well who was the kid that had me connected to youth baseball. When I was a kid I played, had fun, etc. These kids today are doing pre cursors to roids as early as little league. Luckily the kid who I am connected to did not feel the need to do such things but many of his friends and fellow players did. He played all the way through high school but is now not playing college ball. Many of the kids he played with are playing in college and are doing bad things to their bodies to compete.

                  The ONLY reason the vast majority of these kids are doing this stuff is because they think it is the ONLY way to make it and succeed. So while this roid / PED problem might just be a joke to you, it is not to me.

                • Ryan S.

                  I am now officially against the idea of signing Gabe Kapler, simply to avoid him providing the impetus for a discussion about PEDs again.

                  Let’s just get Mike Cameron instead! :D

                  (hope you guys get the joke)

                • The Honorable Congressman Mondesi

                  Roids, logic, sexual orientation slurs, disciples… Whatever, I just can’t believe you knew someone named Gaybe. Parents really need to think these things through a little better.

                • Mike Pop

                  I enjoy when he owns you time and time and again if thats what you mean.

                • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald

                  Mondesi, the guy was about 80 and this was a good 7 or 8 years ago. At one point people named their children Adolf, but not any longer.

                • jsbrendog

                  I know you are a disciple to Tommie and all that, I get it. But most of my favorite players I am willing to be did not do roids. If some of them did, they would no longer be my favorite players.

                  HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA deep breath HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

                  because you know?? because you have any knowledge whatsoever??? hahahahahahahaha SHANINGANS!!!

                  oh an ps, EVERY PLAYER YOU SAY YOU LIKE TOOK GREENIES AND AMPHETAMINES TOO GET OVER IT

                  next youre gonna say ty cobb wasnt a rascist.

                • http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/CRsmithT1.jpg tommiesmithjohncarlos a/k/a Ridiculous Upside

                  The next guy who says “Shenanigans” is gonna get pistolwhipped!!!

  • Axl

    Why don’t we just sign the entire 2004 Red Sox team?? Jason Varitek is a free agent too!!!

    I heard Keith Foulke wants to come back and play…

    If only we could swap no-knees David Ortiz for no-knees Hideki Matsui…

    We’d be in business!!!

  • deezer

    DBHOF – i couldnt find the full article, but here’s a Q&A where TV lays out his theory:http://sportsillustrated.cnn.c.....index.html

    When a player signs a contract mid-season, does he immediately have to take a drug/steroid test? The reason I ask is because I’m thinking all these out-of-work sluggers are probably taking steroids right now while they’re not in the league, just waiting for a team to make an offer. Once they sign a contract, they could stop the steroids but still be sufficiently bulked up to put up huge numbers again. Has the league given any thought to this issue?

    — John, Brooklyn, N.Y.

    A: That’s a great point, John, and I’ve been thinking about this for the last year or two as it seems more and more players “retire” or shut it down because of injury and then launch a comeback. Obviously, they can put whatever they want into their bodies when they’re out of the game, then stop with enough time to have it not linger in their system (as far as tests go) yet still have benefited from the strength and recovery advantages. Once you sign a contract, you are subject to be tested at any time. Of course, this applies only to the banned substances that show up on tests. All players, even active ones, are still free to use HGH without fear of being tested for it. I believe we’re going to see more and more older players (mostly pitchers) take off months or years to get their bodies back in shape — with PEDs or not — and then come back to the game. The big money they’ve earned allows them the luxury.

    • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald

      Deezer, thank you.

  • Phil McCracken

    No thanks.

    If the Yankees want an over the hill ex steroid user, Giambi would be a much better fit.

    • D.B.H.O.F. p.k.a The Donald

      NO PHIL NO! Roids do not exist in baseball! Or if they do everybody did them even Babe Ruth!

      • Mike Pop

        Its in the Gatorade.

  • http://eliassportsblog.blogspot.com matt

    Seriously?? You cant be serious with Gabe Kapler. He is the poster child of steroids. I dont think they test managers in the minors for roids so he took a year off to bulk up and come back to play. This would be worse then brining in Morgan Ensberg.

  • Stephen

    I don’t know why people lump amphetamines, HGH, and steroids in the same bunch.
    Amphetamines: Ok Mike ameron used amphetamines, so did everybody else starting in the 60s
    HGH has not been proven to enhance athletic performance. I don’t have the links, but Klaw and Neyer have linked to studies about this.
    Steroids- Yea it’s cheating.

    Even if you call them all PEDs, I’m torn on the issue because, that just mans a player is trying to improve his performance, leading to better baseball. On the other hand, it’s illegal and gives them an unfair advantage over other players trying to get paid.

  • Doug

    Another post-Steroid guy? No thanks!

  • RI Steve

    And he’s a great clubhouse guy- love this idea.

  • TONY

    Great idea – go get him!

    Tony

  • MAYTRIX7

    FORGET GABE WELCOME BACK KOTTER KAPLER JUST SIGN JIMMY EDMONDS FOR A YEAR HES BETTER THEN ALL 3 OF THEM

  • MAYTRIX7

    THAT OR GET CHRIS ANKIEL TO PLAY CF SEND MELKY AND A GOOD PROSPECT FOR HIM OR SIGN ORLANDO HUDSON FOR CF LOOKINF OVER HIS SHOULDER AT HUDSON CANO WILL HAVE A GREAT YEAR OR EVEN SEND NADY SIGN MANNY

  • Scott

    The underlying theme of “chemistry” should be a major theme, and Kapler would be a good “get” for the Yanks. He’s a dirt dog, a guy who’s going to talk the talk and walk the walk, unlike a particular 3rd baseman we have. The Yanks need gamers…not just players. Kapler would be perfect for them.

    • Matty G

      I believe the only “Dirt Dog” was Ol Dirty Bastard…RIP

  • Phil McCracken

    This is what happens when you use Winstrol properly, not like Roger Clemens.

    http://www.iballer.com/malecel.....23_jpg.jpg